Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 13 Jan 2014 22:25

Don't worry. Hopefully, both Kolkata and Chennai will be privatized by next year.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 14 Jan 2014 05:17

Very impressive!

One can only hope that this is maintained properly and not neglected
I am off to Mumbai in April....hopefully, will get to experience the T2 terminal...Inshallah!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Jan 2014 09:22

+1..soothing that peacock feather motif.

the old Blr T1 felt like the ante room of a sterile operation theater with steel seats constantly scrubbed with antiseptic soln by a squad of hostile germanic nurses. maybe the expansion has added some human touch to it

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 14 Jan 2014 11:35

anishns wrote:Very impressive!

WoW indeed ....Finally my City has something that is World Class or may be even better

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 14 Jan 2014 11:36

Bombay T2 looks grand. I'll try flying through bombay if only to get to see it..

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 14 Jan 2014 14:48

Air India Eyes 2015 Star Alliance Admission

manish · Post by **manish** » 14 Jan 2014 14:59

KrishnaK wrote:Bombay T2 looks grand. I'll try flying through bombay if only to get to see it..

Are you flying domestic or int'l?

Int'l ops start shifting from Feb, but the domestic flyers won't get to fly through T2 before 2015.

The only downer about T2 is the delays that we have had to put up with. Agreed that most of the challenges were external to the airport and its operators, but still it would have been better for Mumbai if this had come through in 2010 (?) as originally envisioned.

DEL T3 construction on the other hand is still kind of awe inspiring for a large Indian infra project. Even factoring in relatively smooth land acquisition among other things, getting that behemoth up and operational in barely 37-38 months is scarcely believable, especially with GoI breathing down their necks to ensure completion before CWG 2010. Even the Heathrow T5 apparently took nearly twice that!

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 15 Jan 2014 11:22

manish wrote:
KrishnaK wrote:Bombay T2 looks grand. I'll try flying through bombay if only to get to see it..
Are you flying domestic or int'l?

Int'l ops start shifting from Feb, but the domestic flyers won't get to fly through T2 before 2015.

The only downer about T2 is the delays that we have had to put up with. Agreed that most of the challenges were external to the airport and its operators, but still it would have been better for Mumbai if this had come through in 2010 (?) as originally envisioned.

DEL T3 construction on the other hand is still kind of awe inspiring for a large Indian infra project. Even factoring in relatively smooth land acquisition among other things, getting that behemoth up and operational in barely 37-38 months is scarcely believable, especially with GoI breathing down their necks to ensure completion before CWG 2010. Even the Heathrow T5 apparently took nearly twice that!

manish, intl. So I guess I'll wait till 2015. Thanks for the info. Personally I'll take some delay if we manage to come up with distinctive works of art.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 15 Jan 2014 12:35

Bloomsbury withdraws 'The Descent of Air India', with an apology to Praful Patel

http://www.moneylife.in/article/bloomsb ... 35972.html

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 15 Jan 2014 14:33

Boeing Dreamliner grounded in Japan after battery problem detected

Japan Airlines Co. said Wednesday it had grounded a Boeing Dreamliner jet after discovering a problem with the battery on the aircraft at Japan's main international airport. Smoke was seen coming out of the lower part of the fuselage during scheduled maintenance on Tuesday evening before its departure for Bangkok from Narita International Airport, the company said.

JAL later said that a venting valve for one of the eight lithium-ion battery cells had been activated, the Kyodo News agency reported.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 20 Jan 2014 09:01

Flight Diversion Much Less After DGCA Warning to Airlines

They should also set some guidelines on the age of aircraft used by international airlines coming into Indian airports

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 20 Jan 2014 12:17

Opinion: C919 Will Help China Make Giant Leap

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 20 Jan 2014 19:44

Anyone remember the AI Express crash at Mangalore? One of the suspicions there was that one reverse thruster failed, but that was dissed. Read below:

The first sign of trouble came after landing at the critically short Jammu runway. The reverse thrust of one engine (a mechanism in which air flow direction of engines is reversed soon after touching down to assist braking) failed. While the aircraft then faced control issues — with one engine's reverse thrust trying to slow the plane and the other not — it stopped safely.

"Rules permit aircraft with only one engine having reverse thrust to operate under minimum equipment list. So this aircraft was cleared for flying to Srinagar," said a senior AI official. But here another far more serious problem awaited the vintage aircraft.

On landing in snowed-in Srinagar airport, the hydraulics of the aircraft failed and the reverse thrust of the other engine also became non-functional. Hydraulic failure meant that the aircraft then had serious steering, flight control and braking issues. Luckily for flyers, the experienced pilots managed to stop the plane safely on the slippery runway and averted a crisis.

If that had ended in "no survivors" they would have blamed the pilot again. I cannot BELIEVE that their "rules" allow a 2-engine plane to take off for a flight in mountainous regions (short runways!) in icy conditions (no brakes!) with one thrust reverser inop. Who made THAT rule?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Jan 2014 20:19

mmm.. missed it this time, as i thought they would not be ready. next time i'll book it via mumbai to check the airport out.

i always had bad experiences with mumbai airport, customs, lines, waits, transfer terminals, haggling with cooliewalas, etc.

--

on the functional infrastructure angle, i'd like to take everything from that aspect of requirement.
- functional traffic management
- functional roads infrastructure (civil aviation can be blocked and lose revenue if roads are poor)
- functional utilities infrastructure
- manadtory for all infrastructure - water, sewage, electricity, telecomm, broadband

there is a need for India, and I hope functional thinkers spread by the word!
--
on top bial .. those rectangular shapes - are they glass or solar panels? nice place to install solar panels

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 20 Jan 2014 21:06

Any pictures of the most crucial parts of an airport terminal that makes all the difference between 5-star and outhouse - the pakistans?

DXB is pretty good, what with the warm-water jets and all as bonus.
Amsterdam was OK
But none of these places have the sheer spaciousness and number of pakistans per passenger, of US airports such as PHX, SJC or ATL have. Now THAT is true WORLD-CLASS Mushharaf-Care!

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 20 Jan 2014 21:19

Kochi airport's pakistan stalls are the worst among the new private airports. Small entry doors and looks like a school restroom. Massa high schools have even larger facilities.

Functionally on all other grounds it is ok for a tier-2 city. I still vote it for the most ugliest of the new airports. I get the feeling that I arrived at a railway station. OTOH, I wish all our railway stations looked like the Kochi Airport.

I am flying in to CCU (Kolkata) this weekend. I will need to check the facilities there on arrival. I hope the customs would not hound me like they do in Mumbai at 3 am in the morning, even when all I carry is usually just a laptop and a camera bought 10 yrs ago.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 20 Jan 2014 23:05

How standards change!

When CIAL opened in '97 those were way ahead of the SOA in Indian airport pakistans. Now I agree, Dilli T-3 thrones are fit for the musharrafs of the Hi&Mighty/Corrupt who grace them.

Actually CIAL international has better pakistans than CIAL domestic. But still, American airport pakistans, designed for A.May-size musharrafs, are best of all -except that they haven't got those warm ***lim Showers. Ah! The feeling of those on the musharraf after a 24-hour journey in cattle class! As the famous Pakistani poet hyperventilated:

Eeph there is a Heaven on the Duniya
It is this, it is THIS, it IS THIS!!!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Jan 2014 23:14

bidet system could change life in pakistan.

of course musharraf still needs visa to enter it.

my last visit to cial (it has been 9 years), they did not had the boarding bridges and pakistan was still ordinary.. however, i liked cial customs. clean, fresh looking damsels with pleasant kuris and all that.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 20 Jan 2014 23:38

Dilli may have high and mighty, but CCU airport from the outside does not look like anything to scoff at...though there were horror stories about pakistans within it during inaugural days. Hope all those have been addressed adequately by now. Wish CIAL did have more of a modern look...maybe the new terminal getting built will look modern enough for the changing tastes and aesthetics of the users.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 21 Jan 2014 01:57

All these are dismally alike in poor design. Who cares about how the fountains look at an airport? There are just 3 things that matter:
1. Runways: don't kill me.
2. Pakistans
3. Arrival/departure access with baggage, kids, Paco etc. At 2AM. In a pouring monsoon deluge or a blizzard, or at 2PM on a 110F day.

OK, a decent restaurant might not hurt. But all the rest like Sweeping Architecture, Red Carpet and Gleaming ripoff Stores, all leave me cold.

Look at each of the Indian "new" airports. Except for Mumbai's CS airport, I don't know of any that even offers multi-lane concurrent loading/unloading. It's like a rail junction with just one platform. Every car HAS to come to the edge of that, after mighty negotiation and cursing and stress. And there is hardly any protection from the elements.

There should be more thought to the poor passenger dragging his feet and a cart of bags after 40 hours of travel. And for those who have to come get them to/from the airport at odd hours.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 21 Jan 2014 03:28

All those listed points matter. The newer ones definitely have wide 3-4 lane and more access points to the drop off areas. The annoying part is most of these lanes are blocked by the security/polis with ugly barricades and making the whole thing non functional and looks like a setup to do a steeple-chase except that the idea is to slow you down as much as possible. If that was the intention then drop-off points should be a km or so away from the terminal. All x-ray scans and other security should be done away from the terminal area to keep it clean from a security point of view.

This new or rather old requirement of the "threat century" means a complete re-design is required for airports and baggage handling.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 21 Jan 2014 07:56

Actually Indian airports havn't been too bad in terms of time between arrival, check-in and security. Both Mumbai and Chennai was about 20-30 minutes between, arrival, immigration, collect baggage and into taxi/fasttrak, etc. Of course I could have been lucky as both flights landed at odd hours. Its a shambles and yes pakistan is pakistan as always, phenyl scent and all but still in terms of time not bad at all. Frankfurt took 3.5 hours to transfer me between two aircraft, including complete lugagge re-checkin. Not a clue why they did not check it all the way thru. Newark took 2.5 hours and Chicago took a sumptuous 3 hours for the entire immigration check in, including 1 hour in the 'special' line.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Jan 2014 08:22

the architects and engineers who work on such projects don't look at functional requirement of handling domestic traffic.. if at all, they compare based on how existing usage is. they don't understand markets, growth, demand vs supply, etc. or it is all corruption and contractor swindling aspects by just enabling some fountain or tree and shrub here and there.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Jan 2014 13:23

the new areas of BIAL are not opened for use yet. they are ready on the surface, maybe some internal things like toilets and wiring are not. certainly more stylish than existing central box.

passed through mumbai CS domestic last night. much bigger than BIAL with lots of space between the boarding gates....there are few on the ground level and another 10ish on the upper deck which has the sweeping curved roof. seats are good with some leather type upholstery. there are plenty of shops , smoking areas, a couple of bars , free newspapers but I felt bad for the folks in sales/mkting who need to travel frequently as the quality of food both in airports and onboard is unhealthy compared to home food..and these poor guys need to spend long hrs in terminals and planes eating this type of food. single runway means delays in takeoffs at night...some 8 flights took off or landed before us causing 30 min delay....and there were 4 more lined up on domestic side behind us, maybe few more on international side.
bathrooms were sub par, wet floors, old plywood type doors in arrival hall, wet basin area....maybe its better in new curvy roof departure but I didnt use.

taxis in mumbai are a lot cheaper than the ripoff prices in blr. from CS to colaba by prepaid is only around 430. on return journey churchgate to CS was 304 only. and mostly one can just sit inside the taxi and tell him where to go - no need to remind to turn the meter on, no fixed fare negotiating and no mood based go/no-go decision. pretty much all the hotel and taxi employees I found are bihar/UP people. except the police, museum and BEST employees I didnt see too many obviously marathi in 3 days of prowling in south mumbai - gujjus, bohris, northies, nepalis, easties, lots of southies, arabs, africans, goras, PIOs of all stripes ranging from Aus , through africa , through mauritius thru west indies thru EU/US going by accents...a true melting pot. maybe the outlying parts are less heterogenous and have some distinct regional character?

the Shivaji (formerly prince of wales) museum is really good, with a trendy glass n steel ticket counter, museum shop and cafetaria to contrast the old well kept building. has a lot of high quality artefacts albeit the painting collection donated by the Tatas is sub par..maybe the jehangir art gallery I couldnt visit is better for that. akbar's personal armour and swords are there. visiting loaner exhibs were artefacts of cyrus of persia and flemish paint/etching masters. some really super toned brunette PYTs too going through the exhibits. museum/art is one good place to locate that rare variety.

visited the taj , colaba bylanes and gateway of india which is like a unruly mela as usual. taj has metal detectors and security on every door now. there was a taxi advertising a slum tour to the wealthy guests.
after buying some gifts to keep wife n kids happy I decamped for CS. traffic is much better in Sobo vs blr...roads seem to have been planned properly decades ago and the std of construction much better than the paper thing / undulating work that goes on here. visited a couple of services clubs for drinks n dinner...had to fit into a old leather shoe of my cousin size8 because of the dress code no sneaker rule. I am now comfortable between colaba and CST. next yr planning to properly investigate the "fort/sasoon docks" area and work my way up.

in quiet bylanes and sidewalks all through sobo, there are QRT teams of armed MH police some with H&K weapons, mostly with FN-FAL and armoured M&M Marksman 4x4 vehicles....lurking and watching.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 21 Jan 2014 19:05

Came through BOM early Jan, b4 this new terminal opened. Air India.
Pleasantly surprised that the shops in the departure Gates area (post security) are no longer "Duty Phree, Dollar only" stocking only L-Eau PeePee de Paris or Johny Walker Rooh Afza as they were many years before when I last paid attention. One could actually buy idlis and dosas with rupees.

Of course Air India took off 2 hours late, no explanation. Of course the 404 ABCDs who expected to board the direct US flight that took off within 1 hour after AI scheduled time, were left cursing and hollering. Of course, after AI had jerked us around and added an 8-hour delay into my carefully-booked schedule, I had spent enough time on the phone with Priceline.com making sure that I had 3.5 hours at DXB, even though it meant a long detour through AMX. So we had just enough time to check in, go to pakistan with no great hurry, and get into the Gate. Of course Air India did not transfer one of our 2 bags at DXB. Which meant that only the bag where I had put one suitcase inside the other (return trip) AND wrapped in rain-proof plastic at BOM came through, and though the unkind person at US customs saw my honest "sealed pickles" declaration and made us go through the Agricultural inspection, this bag slid smoothly through the lower deck of the inspection belt with its full load of (perfectly legit!) goodies. The other bag, equally full of goodies but less insulated, came home delivery a couple of dins later.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 21 Jan 2014 19:37

"bag in a bag"

That is what we are looking to do this time as domestic flights in India allow only 1 bag @ 15kg onlee. Qatar allows 2 check-in baggage @ 20kg each. So idea is to carry extra bags for the return trip with goodies..which is usually clothes by shq.

Flying in to one Intl airport and out of another, with a domestic only connection means the local airlines fleece you with additional charges. The only way to beat them is to take as little clothes as possible from here in the US to India, and buy all wearable there and bring them home here along with other things picked here and there.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Jan 2014 23:11

they should go for smoke free airports and NOT copy eye raw pee-an model of smoke chambers.. gosh frankfurt, charles de gaule, and heathrow sucks in terms of smoke places.. normally, i'd say, it is only 80% smoke free.

why do people need to smoke in the airport?
--

i am taking ethihad this time.. i had already done emirates once when they bought new planes. this etihad-jet combo is giving me dual baggage.. and i have lots to carry this time.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 22 Jan 2014 06:57

domestic flights in India allow only 1 bag @ 15kg onlee

Hmm! The kid at the AI counter (boy! was he 404!) ran his finger over this table, where it said "15kg: free" but I bet it also said: "20kg: free". Maybe you have one of the domestic cut-rate tickets (can't get those through Priceline from here!). that's the other investment you need: take along a spring balance to make sure you come under the wt limit. A bag of chips or bottle of pickles is not worth the extra baggage fee, one can always get it at Cherian's in the US.

Trouble with going to Malloostan (COK) is that there are no direct flights to Oirope, to connect to US. apparently the BOM lobby prevents such things. Connections to B'lore stink. Do you know any innovative solutions? This time I was willing to stay in Dubai if needed, but as seen above it all worked out without that. Is Kingfisher coming back? Is Singapore - Hobart - Buenos Aires - Miami at better deal?

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 22 Jan 2014 08:31

My solution to the Bombay conundrum is to fly middle east airlines. I have three choices in total. Qatar, Emirates and now Etihad from DC. Does any of them fly out from near Ulan Bator ? If so then this works the best for trips to Malloostan.

I bought my local domestic tickets from a variety of vendors. One was Orbitz, another segment via Kayak/Travelocity and another from Indigo direct via their online site, depending on what I found when I went looking. Though I am not sure I got the best price always.

The 15kg limit comes into play due to the fact that the domestic segments were bought separately from the Intl segment. If you book the domestic segments along with your international segments then you end up paying through your nose but get to carry as much as is allowed on Intl segments. Though Jet Airways did not honor it once out of Bombay.

I have difficult time planning my entire trip in advance, so usually I end up buying the Intl segments first and then when the dust settles on who I want to meet etc buy the domestic segments. It is easier when one flies in and out of the same airport, or at least between two close ones one COK or TRV (never did Calicut) rather than ones 2000km apart like I am going to do this time around. One can never optimize on cost and needs well in advance.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 22 Jan 2014 08:45

Doesn't Emirates fly direct from doobaai to dera mallustan? Why do you need to connect through b'lore or bombay saar?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Jan 2014 07:06

a) Basic prejudice, reinforced by experience of flying Gulf Air in the 1980s.
b) Emirates good going in (I did that this time, it was fine) but not good so far returning (nearly 1 day hang-out in DXB), also I am too cheap.
c) Ulan Bator Airways gives me generally very good treatment (priority boarding, choice seats near pakistan, bonus miles, direct flights to Ulan Bator from midEast.
d) Arrival in Ulan Bator beats the heck out of LAX, OHare, JFK, Dulles, all dem dumps. Also, Ulan Bator is usually clear of blizzards in early January. Worked very well this time - if I had been scheduled anywhere else I would have been hopelessly stuck.
e) Passengers on Emirates etc seem to get higher likelihood of Special Attention - as in 3-hour hospitality by the Tee Ess Ay, Dee Ech Ess etc on arrival.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 23 Jan 2014 09:47

Etihad and Qatar have shorter layovers at their hubs. Emirates want you to spend some of your dollahs in Doobai and forces an overnight stay. I have 4th cousins there to visit, but have avoided it so far.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 23 Jan 2014 10:09

For us west coasters heading to malloostan, the default option is Singapore Airlines - direct to COK and TVM from SIN. Yummy rates is an option, but I don't want to step foot in Doo buy or elsewhere in the region. Plus, unlike Bade, who's a high funda nucular fizzy cyst traveling in business or first class onlee, I sit in the back most of the time. Plus I have family in Singapore, and have been told in no uncertain terms that I'll be Qadrified if I don't stopover there each time I head to malloostan, while HQ needs to stop by her hometown for some love in Tokyo

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 23 Jan 2014 17:46

I have declared cattle class to be first class++ onlee and pretend to be a high flyer as there is no hope for upward mobility in life. Real Silicon Valley entrepreneurs fly Chi-Chi Singapore Air while fata abduls true to name have to take the dhow home.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 23 Jan 2014 22:22

Oh strange. I've not had more than 3 hours' stopover at doobai. But then I don't fly to malloostan.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 24 Jan 2014 06:56

Yes, I too would like to fly Singapore, and there MAY be a flight from UB to Singapore but I am afraid to broach that to Supreme HQ. Plus it's 2 more days cut out of the vacation, and I have nooo desire to see S'pore.
Still not forgiven me for the UB-Seoul direct flight with the seaweed lunch in 2008 after the Mumbai attacks scrapped our UB-BOM flight.

Prasad: DXB-BLR-COK, very smooth as long as Kingfisher was around. But gone with the wind.

Hope this new Air Asia scam works out. AI does not like Malloos - or likes our paise too much.

manish · Post by **manish** » 24 Jan 2014 11:47

News: AAI Chairman Removed for Opposing Privatization of More Airports

MUMBAI: In a late night development, chairman of the state-run Airports Authority of India, V P Agarwal, was removed from his post apparently because of his "opposition" to privatisation of more airports in the country, sources said.

Alok Sinha, who is currently joint secretary in the aviation ministry and handling the airports, has been given additional charge of the post, according to government orders.

Agarwal was resisting the privatisation of six more airports, including Kolkata and Chennai. But the government is in a hurry and wants the process to be completed before going into elections. For this reason, Agarwal had to lose his post, sources said here.

vina · Post by **vina** » 24 Jan 2014 11:49

Diyar UBatori . From UB, the quickest 2 stop transfer (doubt you can do a one stop) to Malloostan (COK) would be Delta/Air France/KL/Brit Airways/Lufthansa into an Oiero hub, flying into Mumbai and a morning transfer to COK ?

The other option would be to fly int NY /Dallas and do a one stop via a middle east hub directly to COK (will cost you a packet though I suppose), so anyways, it will be a minimum 2 stop with transfers at each of the hubs. That is what makes it more troubling and the probability of you getting jacked at each of those hubs increases the overall trouble.

Of course, even folks flying into Bangalore, Kerala sometimes whine about the paucity of flights compared to Mumbai and Dilli. But with many of the Oieros and Asians flying into Bangalore, Madras and also Hyd, you are not left nekkid at the mercy of the Gelf guys like the folks in Malloostan to fly into your neck of the woods.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 24 Jan 2014 12:04

Gelf airlines are the only nonstop option from Ulan Bator to COK one stop - Yummyrates will stop in Doobuy en route. Etihad, if it flies to UB, will stop in the ghats of Abu Dhobi.

Flying via Bluru, Kerala used to be indeed an option when Mallyair was still flying. They had a great 6am flight to Cochin that I often took when I arrived late night on an international flight.

Anand K · Post by **Anand K** » 24 Jan 2014 12:48

Suraj wrote:For us west coasters heading to malloostan, the default option is Singapore Airlines - direct to COK and TVM from SIN. Yummy rates is an option, but I don't want to step foot in Doo buy or elsewhere in the region. Plus, unlike Bade, who's a high funda nucular fizzy cyst traveling in business or first class onlee, I sit in the back most of the time. Plus I have family in Singapore, and have been told in no uncertain terms that I'll be Qadrified if I don't stopover there each time I head to malloostan, while HQ needs to stop by her hometown for some love in Tokyo

The Silk Air flight from SIN to TRV sucks!
I have been seeing the same "Just For Laughs" gag videos the past 3 years for one. The seats suck! The air-hostesses are quite a few millihelens short of the TFTA SIA ladies and are dressed in crayola green kitchen gowns. I am sure the "apple juice" they serve is diluted expired cough syrup. The food sucks. I have traveled Biz class also here and it's not much different from Economy - the chair is bigger and the cabin crew smile a bit more.
Whine whine whine

The amount you have to dish out for this is MUCH higher than Tiger or Air Asia. AT least you know where both stand with these Peanut Airlines.