Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 05 Jan 2014 01:09

Oh man!

The more things change the more they remain the same.

Where is Dorothy when we really need her?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 05 Jan 2014 02:15

Just compare the price of one C-17 with an AN-124,80 to be built new in a joint Ukraine-Russia agreement.It is double and has half the capability! Check out the stats in my latest post in the transport td.

The Gorshkov deal and reasons for delays,extra costs,has been flogged to death.In retrospect,the entire evaluation of the work to be done in converting the vessel,time and costs were grossly underestimated and mistakes were made and acknowledged by both sides. However,both countries after a spate of negotiations came to an agreement and we have now a virtually brand new carrier flying the IN's colours.A "game changer" in the IOR says the IN and other analysts.

TOI

"INS Vikramaditya will be a game-changer, a potent floating airfield with supersonic fighters ready to fulfill India's blue-water naval aspirations far across the oceans. It's virtually a new ship after the refit. It will prove to be worth every penny invested," said a senior officer.

"Once it reaches India by early next year, and becomes fully operational thereafter with MiG-29Ks being flown by Indian pilots from its deck, it will be 44,570-tonnes of Indian military diplomacy patrolling the seas to guard the country's strategic interests," he added.

SPA

INS Vikramaditya is the modernised and refurbished version of an original Kiev class aircraft carrier which was first commissioned into the Russian Navy in 1987 as Aviation Cruiser Baku. Post the dissolution of the former USSR, it was rechristened as Admiral Gorshkov and remained in service until 1995. During August 1995, a multidisciplinary group of senior naval officers was deputed to Murmansk and St Petersburg to thoroughly survey the state of Admiral Gorshkov and assess the feasibility for its refurbishment and modernisation as a short take-off but arrested recovery (STOBAR) or catapult assisted take-off but arrested recovery (CATOBAR) aircraft carrier for the Indian Navy. After an exhaustive examination of the ship over three weeks, the team leader was called to brief the empowered high level Indian delegation which had arrived at Moscow to formulate the first ever long-term perspective plan on military-technical cooperation (LTPP-MTC) between India and Russia. It was indeed noteworthy that based on the positive inputs from the team leader, the modernisation and acquisition of Admiral Gorshkov for the Indian Navy was included in the first LTPP-MTC itself. After almost nine years of negotiations, the initial $1.5-billion contract for retrofitting the aircraft carrier and buying 16 MiG-29K, K/UB deck-based fighters was signed in 2004.

According to former Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral Arun Prakash, “The Indian Navy faces two immediate challenges: the smooth integration of this huge warship, with its new systems, in terms of shore-support and maintenance, and the evolution of new doctrines to exploit the immense operational capabilities that this ship offers. Carrying a mix of supersonic, fourth-generation MiG-29K fighters, Kamov-28 anti-submarine and Kamov-31 airborne early-warning helicopters, the Vikramaditya promises to transform the maritime balance of power in the Indian Ocean. Calling the ship a “gamechanger” is not mere hyperbole.”

IDSA

The new aircraft carrier, unveiled at Severodvinsk in Russia on November 16, is a historic milestone. Coming two months after another achievement - the actuation of the nuclear reactor of the Arihant, India’s first indigenous nuclear powered submarine – the Vikramaditya is being seen as a ‘game-changer’, with the potential to transform the Indian Navy’s profile in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) and beyond.

Ultimately, possessing an aircraft carrier does not only indicate ‘blue-water’ capability, but also represents a navy’s ‘vision’. If a maritime force can conceive of an aircraft carrier’s role as a ‘versatile’ and flexible asset – one that can switch easily between soft power diplomacy, power projection and combat operations – it can be a ‘game-changer’, for both national foreign policy and naval strategy.
The Vikamaditya could prove to be critical in shaping the Indian Ocean’s strategic environment

alexis · Post by **alexis** » 06 Jan 2014 13:54

^^^
Philip, pls dont peddle the An-124 cheaper than C-17 nonsense. Pls wait till new An-124 makes its flight; then we can discuss. There was a time when Russian stuff was the cheapest (if not most capable); but that time is past now. I dont expect An-124 to be cheaper than C-17 on TCO basis.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Jan 2014 21:26

India to get enhanced Heron UAVs

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 07 Jan 2014 04:45

OT - NR Rao, this is only my view but since you ask, here goes.

A major strategic issue for India is its internal security with a large muslim population which can get quickly radicalized as has happened with our dear friends on our western border and indeed across the world. Our polity and administration has been letting this colour foreign policy for years. Also radical Islam winning in Bangladesh with active US support. Bangladesh is a large exporter of population to India and a large reason for our problems in the NE is because of this inflow. Demographics will inevitably make this problem worse with time as their vote banks become more important. We still refuse to accept this is a serious issue. Decision makers pooh, pooh when you discuss this with them. To them this is not strategic. To me something that threatens the very stability of the country and which impacts your policy is very strategic. But most of us grossly underestimate this issue.

Russia also faces Islamic terror though not to the same degree. They will respond robustly unlike us. This can have the effect of more attacks against them and becoming a serious issue for them. The bigger an issue this becomes for them the more our interests converge and also hopefully some attention gets diverted from Kashmir. Maybe their robust response will also give us some cover fire to respond. Pakistan as the main subcontractor for wahabi terror hurts us both so naturally our interests converge. Central Asian republics robustly secular under communism are important conversion targets for our Jihadi friends. Its in both our interests to keep them free of this. So big convergence here.

Our other strategic issue is China. Russia shares a massive land border with them and have fought a border war before. So we are natural allies because we have a common 'potential' foe. Russia gives weaponry to China but never strategic technology. Russians have long memories and foresight. The bear is always wary of the dragon.

These are some of the ways our interests converge with Russia. There are many more. As I said earlier there are strong commonality of interests with the US too but that will only fructify when we grow up and bat for ourselves. Dosti barabari mein hoti hai. At the moment the relationship is not working for us. But I don't believe this should have any implications on our acquisitions.

This is not the national security or geopolitical thread so I will stop here.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 07 Jan 2014 10:56

Our very own Jagan and Samir's book on IAF's role in 1971 war

Review | Eagles over Bangladesh: Bringing back the pride

...
A main highlight of the account is that unlike other war novels, the narration has been very focused, crisp and not exaggerated. It keeps its pace and never lets the reader feel that the authors are trying to add some ‘masala’ into their narration. This makes the account realistic and the simple language used without any tough English jargons makes it worth a read.
A matter of honour indeed, Eagles over Bangladesh is definitely one that should find a place of esteem in your shelf
...

BTW, Jagan has not been posting for an year or so. Was he busy with his book?

Jagan, Congrats on your new book after the one on IAF in 1965 war!!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Jan 2014 11:50

C-17 Lands at Thanjavur Air Force Station - The Hindu

In a capability demonstration, C-17 military cargo aircraft (Boeing C-17 Globemaster III) landed at Thanjavur Air Force Station on Sunday evening.

The high range, heavy weight aircraft, hovered over the Air Traffic Control building and landed majestically in the runway and glided to its parking place.

Air Force officials, told presspersons, who were witness to the landing, that it was for the first time a night landing of such a big aircraft was done. “It is for the first time that a C-17 is landing in an airbase in South India.”

The aircraft is likely to make some sorties on Monday and it will be in the Air Force station for two more days. In a couple of days a few more fighter planes are expected to arrive in Thanjavur Air Force Station.

C-17s will be used to perform strategic airlift missions, transporting troops and cargo. Additional roles include tactical airlift, medical evacuation and air drop.

The aircraft is 174 ft long, 55.1 ft high with a fuselage diameter of 22.5 ft. Cargo floor length is 68.2 ft and it can lift beyond 70 tonnes and is capable of landing at high altitude. A press release by group captain KVSN Murthy, Station Commander, Thanjavur, issued here on Monday, said that C-17 is versatile and is designed to operate even from unpaved surfaces in the forward areas. C-17 will eventually reduce the deployment time for the forces during hostilities and national emergencies. Recently this aircraft was employed to transport relief material during "Cyclone Phailin".

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 07 Jan 2014 16:42

Akshay Kapoor wrote: As I said earlier there are strong commonality of interests with the US too but that will only fructify when we grow up and bat for ourselves. Dosti barabari mein hoti hai. At the moment the relationship is not working for us. But I don't believe this should have any implications on our acquisitions.

http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories39.htm

Three years ago, an article in a US journal described how the US sanctions had hurt India: HAL Hedges - US sanctions were a bitter experience for Indian manufacturer.

It reported as to how "the state owned Indian aircraft maker was hurt by the US sanctions imposed in 1998 and when it sent flight control systems for its Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) to the US for evaluation, they were impounded. Exports of components from HAL's Advanced Jet Trainer and engines for its Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) were caught up in the ban which even covered the servicing of Indian Navy's Sea King helicopters in the UK due to the use of US-manufactured parts".

My immediate reaction on reading the text was that "Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it."

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 07 Jan 2014 19:04

Exactly. It seems thanks to the phenomenal short sightedness displayed by our strategic elite, we forgot all those lessons.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 07 Jan 2014 20:39

Self-Reliant India Eyes New Terrains in Parachute Tech
By Anantha Krishnan M - BANGALORE Published: 07th January 2014 08:18 AM

India has become self-reliant in designing and manufacturing brake parachutes used in various fighter jets of the Indian Air Force, claimed scientists at the Agra-based Aerial Delivery Research and Development Establishment (ADRDE).

In addition, heavy drop parachutes for transport aircraft, recovery chutes for unmanned platforms and ejection seat chutes have also gone the desi way, thanks to the efforts of the ADRDE, a DRDO lab.

Speaking to Express, ADRDE Director Dr S C Sati said over 10 lakh parachutes were delivered to the IAF in the last 10 years by Indian industries via the transfer of technology route. “Today, brake parachutes used in Su-30 MKI, Jaguar, Tejas, Hawk, MiG 29 and MiG 27 are all made in India. We have recently designed a 30 sq m area cluster of five parachutes for heavy drop systems in P-16. Almost all the IAF assets are now using Indian parachutes, thereby reducing the important content. It has been a silent march towards total self-reliance,” Sati said.

Computational fluid dynamics analysis, parafoil analysis and wind-tunnel tests are done before the realisation of a chute. “It is a very critical, yet less-talked about feature of all fighter jets. The parachutes will have to also open outside the wake penetration area of an aircraft,” Sati said. Normally a parachute is released 1-1.5 seconds after the pilot gives the command. In Tejas, it is the spring-activated mechanism that comes to play, while in Su-30 MKI, it is a cartridge firing system that goes live, soon after the aircraft lands. The Tejas chute weighs around 5 kg and it is 15 kg for Sukhoi. “The landing speed of the aircraft matters and the chutes are designed accordingly. A Sukhoi lands at 320 km/hour, while Tejas lands around 270 km/hour. The type of parachutes vary according to the aircraft,” he said.

Ejection seat parachutes designed by the ADRDE are being used in Jaguars, Kirans, MiGs and Sea Harriers, while the recovery systems are part of unmanned missions undertaken by Lakshya and Nishant. Currently, the scientists are developing crew capsule recovery parachutes for the country’s space programmes. “The design validation process with appropriate ground test are progressing at the Terminal Ballistics Research Laboratory in Chandigarh. It is a new area for us as the crew module has to be stable while landing. We have to ensure that the initial shock should not be very heavy and the speed reduction should be slow and limited to the human capability. The idea is to stabilise the crew module,” Sati said.

For Navy, the ADRDE is developing chutes that drop torpedoes from IL-38, an operation that demands flawlessness. “The release mechanism dictates that the entry of a torpedo into water should be at an appropriate angle.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 09 Jan 2014 13:30

Def Min may reconsider Avro HS-748 replacement program plans

Aviation Week article

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Jan 2014 20:10

It will be a huge dampener if HAL is also allowed to contest.HAL already has massive food on its plate.The success of the LCA will give it enough work for two decades,apart from all the upgrades of Jags,etc. planned. MMRCA and FGFA pogrammes are critical for the IAF's future combat capability and require the setting up infrastructure to develop and manufacture highly sophisticated components for stealth aircraft.After the LCA's success will come the work for the AMCA.The MTA is also being developed,more Dorniers in the pipeline and forget about the huge helo requirement where it has an absolute monopoly.HAL's shares if a firang co. would be one of the most profitable.

HAL should divest itself of low level work like the BTs,IJT and smaller transports and allow some of the work to be hived off to pvt. industry.This will encourage investments in the aviation sector which as pvt. industry matures,become OEMs for advanced programmes where HAL is the prime contractor/manufacturer that delivers the final product.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Jan 2014 20:50

I discovered the old "SOTE _ salt of the earth" video is entirely on youtube. those older than 35 might remember it...rest of you were not even born in the mid 80s.
lot of archival and important footage including of the secretive Trisonics where even the most junior pilot was a squadron leader! legends like air cmdore Mehar singh.
gritty old school footage boys but I know you will like it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6iG4aSqeuk

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Jan 2014 20:54

Is there any footage of our Hunter aerobatic team,the "Thunderbolts"? I saw them at a display in the early '80s,simply spectacular.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Jan 2014 20:56

I skimmed through it just now...but didnt see it in the part I saw...I was looking more at the mig25 footage.
this film was sold a VCD about the time when akash yoddha came out in late 90s. I might have purchased then.

member_28041 · Post by **member_28041** » 09 Jan 2014 21:10

Philip wrote:It will be a huge dampener if HAL is also allowed to contest.HAL already has massive food on its plate.The success of the LCA will give it enough work for two decades,apart from all the upgrades of Jags,etc. planned. MMRCA and FGFA pogrammes are critical for the IAF's future combat capability and require the setting up infrastructure to develop and manufacture highly sophisticated components for stealth aircraft.After the LCA's success will come the work for the AMCA.The MTA is also being developed,more Dorniers in the pipeline and forget about the huge helo requirement where it has an absolute monopoly.HAL's shares if a firang co. would be one of the most profitable.

HAL should divest itself of low level work like the BTs,IJT and smaller transports and allow some of the work to be hived off to pvt. industry.This will encourage investments in the aviation sector which as pvt. industry matures,become OEMs for advanced programmes where HAL is the prime contractor/manufacturer that delivers the final product.

I dont think any private player will be willing to set up the the manufacturing and other support facilities for just an order of 56 aircrafts.
Remember , just the factory is not enough to build the aircraft.You should have a large number of qualified engineers and technitians also.
I do not think it will be economically viable for a private player to set up a all these for just an order of 56 aircrafts.

Now consider HAL. It already has all the technical pool readily available.Yes, it has many orders in its books.But since its already in the business of aircraft manufacturing with all its required pool of technitials and all, i think it would be much much better if HAL is given the task.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 09 Jan 2014 22:14

greater use can be made of subcontractors, with final assembly and integration in HAL

member_28041 · Post by **member_28041** » 09 Jan 2014 22:35

Lalmohan wrote:greater use can be made of subcontractors, with final assembly and integration in HAL

True.
Also i hope they consolidate the 56 Avro replacements and the future 100+ AN32 replacements into a single order and not start floating another tender once the An32 is about to be retired.

aharam · Post by **aharam** » 10 Jan 2014 05:21

Singha wrote:I discovered the old "SOTE _ salt of the earth" video is entirely on youtube. those older than 35 might remember it...rest of you were not even born in the mid 80s.
lot of archival and important footage including of the secretive Trisonics where even the most junior pilot was a squadron leader! legends like air cmdore Mehar singh.
gritty old school footage boys but I know you will like it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6iG4aSqeuk

Where the heck did you get this Singha? I saw this I think 20 years ago and it was filmed when I was still flying the bis. They filmed partially at my base - jamnagar - and I was never sure if one of the bis flights was mine. I flew when they filmed, but I can't see the tail numbers.

Heck, those were interesting days

thanks a lot for the memories. Didn't know these still existed. I saw this on reel projectors. Shows my age now

Cheers
Aharam

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Jan 2014 07:00

Kartik wrote:Def Min may reconsider Avro HS-748 replacement program plans

Aviation Week article

Legally, I am not sure if it is possible to invite global tenders from anyone other than Indan Public Sector concerns. That would not be a global tender but a requirement which has pre-excluded the Public Sector. The stupid thing about such an iffy idea is that the OEM (Hawker Siddely) stopped manufacturing the HS 748 decades ago leaving only HAL making the plane. Now the same plane is sought to be "upgraded" by "someone else". The only people with tooling to make the plane currently are HAL and possibly what is left of Hawker Siddely. What exactly was expected of this strange sounding deal? That "some" foreign vendor should tie up with any Indian entity to do the job of upgrading the India Air Force's Avro 748s while simlutaneously excluding the only firm that has been making them until 1988 and helping to maintain them thereafter? This sounds like a scam to me, even if involving the HAL is also a scam. To me, the idea stinks. Why not simply go for a new aircraft without all these new marriages and divorces?

Legally I suspect that this will not take off. Much as I disilke Pallam Raju or Praful Patel who put a spanner in the works for this deal - it may well have been on tenuous legal grounds.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Jan 2014 07:03

er I just found even Akash yoddha by kunal verma and deepti bhalla is also on youtube
it has a preface talk by a unidentified senior officer that was not there in the VCD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbnlzIBPQUM

yeah that famous countdown with the SU30K doing a full circle....bring it on!

I am going to save both of these on my HDD.

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 10 Jan 2014 09:23

shiv wrote:
Kartik wrote:Def Min may reconsider Avro HS-748 replacement program plans

Aviation Week article
Legally, I am not sure if it is possible to invite global tenders from anyone other than Indan Public Sector concerns. That would not be a global tender but a requirement which has pre-excluded the Public Sector. The stupid thing about such an iffy idea is that the OEM (Hawker Siddely) stopped manufacturing the HS 748 decades ago leaving only HAL making the plane. Now the same plane is sought to be "upgraded" by "someone else". The only people with tooling to make the plane currently are HAL and possibly what is left of Hawker Siddely. What exactly was expected of this strange sounding deal? That "some" foreign vendor should tie up with any Indian entity to do the job of upgrading the India Air Force's Avro 748s while simlutaneously excluding the only firm that has been making them until 1988 and helping to maintain them thereafter? This sounds like a scam to me, even if involving the HAL is also a scam. To me, the idea stinks. Why not simply go for a new aircraft without all these new marriages and divorces?

Legally I suspect that this will not take off. Much as I disilke Pallam Raju or Praful Patel who put a spanner in the works for this deal - it may well have been on tenuous legal grounds.

Err.. Shiv ji, I think the deal is about replacement for the Avroswith new aircraft and not upgrading them.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 10 Jan 2014 11:30

EADS CASA C-295 seems to be an ideal platform for the replacement of Avro.
Navy and Coast guard can also go for the MPA variant of the same. So overall lot of commonality can be achieved.
Some comparison from a blog
http://flaps-aviacion-aviation-luftfahr ... c-27j.html

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 10 Jan 2014 16:00

aharam wrote:

@Aharam Ji
Sorry for OT,I would like to Thank You for the service you have done to the Nation.Thanks!

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 13 Jan 2014 10:43

Saw the EMB-145I AEWACS flying near Kundanahalli on Saturday morning..was flying really low, with the landing gear down, heading away from HAL airport, then turned around and flew back towards the airport..looks very distinctive in the air.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 13 Jan 2014 11:46

Sneaky AF been purchasing Brahmos SSMs!

http://164.100.47.132/LssNew/psearch/QR ... qref=90863

(a) & (b): BrahMos Supersonic Cruise Missile has been developed initially as Anti-ship version for launch from ship to ship for the Indian Navy and inducted in Service. Later, land to land version has been developed for the Indian Army and Indian Air Force. This version has been inducted in the Army and is under production for Army and Air Force. Test also has been carried out from ship to land target. Coastal battery from Mobile Complex on land to ship is also available for the Indian Navy. Air-version of the missile is being developed for SU-30 Mk-I for Indian Air Force.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 13 Jan 2014 12:27

Singha wrote:er I just found even Akash yoddha by kunal verma and deepti bhalla is also on youtube
it has a preface talk by a unidentified senior officer that was not there in the VCD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbnlzIBPQUM

yeah that famous countdown with the SU30K doing a full circle....bring it on!

I am going to save both of these on my HDD.

Singha thats ACM Krishnaswamy who must have been CAS at the time. You were just having us on were'nt you

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 Jan 2014 08:23

Picture.

IAF C-17 Globemaster III unloads disassembled Light Combat Aircraft Tejas : Clicky

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 15 Jan 2014 17:11

This is a very interesting take on the fate of the A10 Warthog. I post it in this thread because we have also discussed Apache helicopters here along with the more generalized discussion on C17s etc.

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/ ... dGame.aspx

"The A-10 was developed in the 1970s to provide close-air support for ground troops. It was intended to destroy tanks on the plains of Europe if the Cold War ever escalated to a full-blown conflict with the Eastern bloc.

It has been described as a “flying cannon.” Its 30-mm Gatling-style gun can spit out up to 4,100 rounds per minute, or 50 rounds per second.

Its relatively low flying speed allows pilots to see targets better, and its titanium-reinforced cockpit gives them protection from surface-to-air guns."

About 300 A10s would be mothballed in the AZ desert. Friendship prices are a clear possibility.

The comments section is also very informative.

Anyone have thoughts on a 'what if' (purely on functional terms and not on supplier reliability/sanctions etc.) scenario and the impact on land warfare in the TSP theater?

I am not sure about anti-tank stuff in the Tibetan theater---there might be some issue WRT to service ceilings etc.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 15 Jan 2014 17:47

Well our MiG-27 was similar (big gun, CAS specialist) but also on the way out - too old, spares issue.
Whats the point of buying some hand me down stuff which is going to be horrible to maintain and at risk in a shooting war with many SAMs around? The A-10 is too slow & doesn't fly high enough either. Against the PAF & PLAAF, it will have severe attrition.
The Russians have kept the Su-25 around, but its faster & more survivable than the A-10.

member_23455 · Post by **member_23455** » 15 Jan 2014 19:37

Cosmo_R wrote:This is a very interesting take on the fate of the A10 Warthog. I post it in this thread because we have also discussed Apache helicopters here along with the more generalized discussion on C17s etc.

........... Friendship prices are a clear possibility.

The comments section is also very informative.

Anyone have thoughts on a 'what if' (purely on functional terms and not on supplier reliability/sanctions etc.) scenario and the impact on land warfare in the TSP theater?

I am not sure about anti-tank stuff in the Tibetan theater---there might be some issue WRT to service ceilings etc.

Hmmm...it's a very interesting discussion for sure, but probably not for the reasons you are imagining. Certain "primal" instincts come to fore, relating to classic inter-services rivalries and priorities when talking CAS and A-10 CAS. This has lessons for both US and India:

1. When budgetary push comes to shove, CAS platforms take a knock in almost all air forces. The A-10 was loved by the guys who flew it but none of the top brass who could save it. Ask yourself who will finance this in the IAF?

2. The GWOT made CAS an across the board specialty - B1Bs, F-15E, and now the F-35 can all do "CAS.". The "specialist" CAS guys in the A-10 community will go blue in the face claiming they are optimized for the role (plus their unique party trick, the FAC-A) but no one will take cognizance. Ask yourself if the IAF will not say the same thing about Su30, Tejas etc being CAS platforms?

3. The Marines see "red" anytime someone in the USAF or USN tells them to lose their organic air (which for them is synonymous with CAS), offering to fill in the gap. Luckily they have high WWII body counts to guilt the politicians to keep funding Marine Air, also doctrine. Ask yourself if the Army will be able to lobby our netas for A-10 in India and the IAF's "interesting" reaction to the same, after what we have seen in rotary aviation?

4. Coming to doctrine/warfighting, especially in the anti-armour context. Please understand that the A-10's tankbusting was designed to blunt Soviet OMG thrusts into NATO territory. It would offset numerical inferiority but could only do so if local air superiority was guaranteed, which NATO trained very hard at. Ground-based air threats it's design was supposed to counter. Ask yourself if Indian Army would be doing the defending vs. TSP, and if it would suffer from numerical inferiority?

koti · Post by **koti** » 15 Jan 2014 19:57

Karan M wrote:and at risk in a shooting war with many SAMs around? The A-10 is too slow & doesn't fly high enough either. Against the PAF & PLAAF, it will have severe attrition.
The Russians have kept the Su-25 around, but its faster & more survivable than the A-10.

True. But it can also be seen from a point of view that it can do everything an Apache can do. Only with a better speed, comparitively better survivability(?). Maybe with a little less endurance.
Its may be seen not as a ow speed CAS AC but maybe as a faster gunship??
What say?

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 16 Jan 2014 09:12

Several Jaguars and Hawk's were making lots of noise yesterday around Marathahalli. Saw several of them landing and few of them flying over in supersonic speeds. is it for republic day?

srin · Post by **srin** » 16 Jan 2014 10:03

Ahh - were they Hawks ? I was visiting someone on Old Airport Road on Tuesday noon, and there was constant noise of some jet aircraft for nearly 2-3 hours. I couldn't figure out if it was engine testing or taxi trials. I could only think of LCA and IJT. Hawks didn't come to mind.

sattili · Post by **sattili** » 16 Jan 2014 11:36

Kartik wrote:Saw the EMB-145I AEWACS flying near Kundanahalli on Saturday morning..was flying really low, with the landing gear down, heading away from HAL airport, then turned around and flew back towards the airport..looks very distinctive in the air.

Looks like this plane might be practicing for the Bahrain Airshow. That explains the low level turns over Marathahalli.

"The show will witness flying demonstration of the AEW&C system that can
detect, identify and classify threats present in the surveillance area and act
as a command and control centre to support variety of air operations," it said.

Source : http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

BTW, that dis-assembled Tejas being loaded on C-17 (picture posted earlier on this and LCA threads) could be going for the same airshow.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 16 Jan 2014 13:26

Today also I saw one Hawk and 2 Jagaurs

member_20453 · Post by **member_20453** » 16 Jan 2014 14:39

uddu wrote:EADS CASA C-295 seems to be an ideal platform for the replacement of Avro.
Navy and Coast guard can also go for the MPA variant of the same. So overall lot of commonality can be achieved.
Some comparison from a blog
http://flaps-aviacion-aviation-luftfahr ... c-27j.html

This is a bas case of EAD's brochure copy paste, in the link below is a far better comparison between C-27J and C295 for RAAF and they ended up ordering the C-27J which IMO is ideal for IAF's need. Great read and looking at standard pallets used by IAF in C-130J and C-17, the C-27J is an ideal drop in fit into IAF's fleet SOP.

http://www.avia-it.com/act/rassegna_aer ... lifter.pdf

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Jan 2014 14:17

Indian AWACS A-50I ( via AFM )

http://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/15/54/62/79/a-50i11.jpg

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 17 Jan 2014 14:48

The number of targets tracked is (per other reports) more. The Russian datalinks mean the Phalcons already talk to Su-30 MKIs.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Jan 2014 15:11

Perhaps what they mean is track while scan for 100 targets but its possible the ability to scan far more targets then to keep track , the actual number may also be classified. Datalinks could be ODL communicate across all platforms