LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

vic · Post by **vic** » 14 Feb 2014 10:04

Re vivek, there is lot of information about Israeli osirak raid on Iraq, on internet, including fuel burn rate, speed, altitude, payload, of the raiding aircraft. Why don't you run your simulation with osiraq empirical data to see what you come up with.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 14 Feb 2014 12:08

chackojoseph wrote:Indranil, you should read the very first mention of this issue rather than pulling some parts.

Chacko sahab, I hope a senior and respected poster like you doesn't take it personally.

It was not to show anybody down (May be my tone betrayed me). It was to tell you guys had missed something seemingly obvious. Just saving everybody's time.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 14 Feb 2014 13:45

No, its not personal. Your data is welcome. I will rephrase. Please read what context it was written and please calculate data for the entire power consumption and fuel consumption arising due to it.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Feb 2014 09:05

Tejas Schedule

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GpeMoGdlj2o/U ... 00/P-3.jpg

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 16 Feb 2014 14:32

If this is what happens, then we have to go for the Rafales as the Mig 21s and 27s would be retiring this decade. Alternately, ADA should be asked to speed up and complete the development of LCA MKII by 2018 this decade.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 16 Feb 2014 19:13

We require the Rafale methinks. There is just too much ground in technology to cover so fast.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 16 Feb 2014 21:23

Austin wrote:Tejas Schedule

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GpeMoGdlj2o/U ... 00/P-3.jpg

These are personal estimates, no a official statement.

I expect better results from ADA and HAL. Lets call my hopes, fools hope and we will see.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 16 Feb 2014 23:52

Just out of curiousity, why can't the ADA start building the prototypes for LCA Mark II now. what are the upstream developments required before they can get going on this. There will be a leadtime for procuring the GE414 from the US. Hopefully these can be shortened to speed up the development process.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 Feb 2014 00:13

RKumar wrote:
Austin wrote:Tejas Schedule

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GpeMoGdlj2o/U ... 00/P-3.jpg
These are personal estimates, no a official statement.

I expect better results from ADA and HAL. Lets call my hopes, fools hope and we will see.

Not posted for the first time either. The official party line is a year earlier. Tejas to be ready by mid-2014: DRDO chief

In 2013 wrote: "The production work has already started at full throttle. Currently there are no bottlenecks to prevent rolling out of the first lot of these indigenously built LCAs by middle of next year," Chander told TOI.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 17 Feb 2014 00:18

That would be the Mark I. When will the first working prototype for MKII be ready.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 17 Feb 2014 01:11

It should be ready some time next year ... I don't know the first flight date.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 Feb 2014 02:24

well, the IAF needs quality in quantities. As of yesterday.

The Labs need experience (and funds?) and thus need tomorrow.

What is common is doorot aye. So, I do not mind the IAF waiting some and hurrying the Labs a little.

Not meant to answer any questions.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 17 Feb 2014 06:03

Tejas Mk-II preliminary design to be ready by next month

The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) is giving the final touches to the preliminary design of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas Mk-II, scheduled to be completed by the end of March. An official confirmed to Express on Saturday that the detailed design phase of LCA Mk-2 would begin in the second quarter of 2014. A separate project team from ADA and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), dedicated to the upgraded version, is currently undertaking daily reviews to get the first cut of the design out by next month.
...
...
Her promises to make Tejas Mk-II free from any kind of dead weight. "The Mk-I has some dead weight in the form of lead plates installed to balance the aircraft which will disappear in Mk-II. It will also have considerable amount of extra fuel capability in operational clean configuration," he added.

The point performance of Mk-II will be higher than Mk-I, which means the aircraft will have better rate of climb, transonic acceleration and turn rates. The new version will have an in-flight refueling system and the ADA-HAL combine is planning to take a new route for Mk-II production. "We are going for the DFMA (Design for Manufacturing and Assembly) technique for the production of Mk-II. The DFMA concept will be used for the first time for an Indian aviation programme, which will decrease the production time and cost, also increase the quality quotient," the official said.
...
...

member_28334 · Post by **member_28334** » 17 Feb 2014 08:36

Does anyone know what are the major design changes that are going to be incorporated into the mk2.

In this pic i feel it is almost similar to mk1 except for the fact that mk2 is going to be slightly larger and heavier than mk1. Also will the air intakes be the same or will they be larger??

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 17 Feb 2014 12:48

From Sagar G's post:

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Feb 2014 07:41

Official Updated LCA Tejas Mk.2 Schematics, First Flight Target 2017

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Feb 2014 07:43

Why is the External Store for Tejas Mk2 still at 3,500 km ....is it suppose the carry the same amount of store as Mk1 inspite of Higher thrust ?

vina · Post by **vina** » 24 Feb 2014 09:12

Austin wrote:Why is the External Store for Tejas Mk2 still at 3,500 km ....is it suppose the carry the same amount of store as Mk1 inspite of Higher thrust ?

From the figures, it carries 30% more INTERNAL fuel @ 3Tons vs 2.3Tons in MK1and that means a higher overall MTOW and nearly same empty weight as the MK1. So you are looking at a plane that is lighter than the M2K, but carries the same amount of internal fuel with a more fuel efficient engine. Expect very nice range and persistence. 3.5T MTOW will be fine with the internal fuel, for the Mk1 equivalent missions, you probably wont need to carry as much external fuel and can be weapons instead.

Nice.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Feb 2014 10:11

Thanks , So could they trade say the .7 T extra fuel for weapons load if required depending on the mission ?

Another question I had was wrt to F-404 engine

The Engine for Tejas F-414 is suppose to be more fuel effecient compared to F-404-IN20 series for MK1 , By how much are their fuel effecient , all things being equal how much fuel they consume ?

Since F-414 has higher AB thrust compared to F-404 , Will it remain fuel effecient when it engages after burner compared to F-404 ?

Thanks.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 24 Feb 2014 14:24

Lot of the above for Mk. 2 may still not be finalized. For instance, while length shows a 0.5 m increase, height doesn't show that. IIRC the vertical tail was supposed to be a little taller. Again take off clean and empty weight figures are the same as that of Mk. 1 and that won't be the case with increased weight of 414 over 404 and more fuel onboard.

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 25 Feb 2014 18:19

Shore-Based Test Facility in Goa to be launched on March 1

Bangalore: India is all set to launch its first Shore-Based Test Facility (SBTF) for flight-testing various naval fighters that would mandatorily operate from aircraft carriers. Defence Minister A K Antony will lead a top-level delegation to Naval Air Station INS Hansa in Goa on March 1 for the inauguration the state-of-the-art facility. The Indian SBTF is being billed as the only third such facility in the world, after the United States and Ukraine, built at a cost of around Rs 400 crore.

An official in the Ministry of Defence confirmed to Express on Monday that, the ski-jump part of the facility was fully ready and certified in 2013, after which the MiG-29K fighters have undertaken a number of take-off trials successfully. The aircraft takes off from a ramp built at 14 degrees angle, while it catches an arrester hook (that reduces the speed to zero, within 100 meters), after touchdown.

The SBTF replicates a static model of the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC), currently being built at the Cochin Shipyard. "The pilot is being assisted by an optical landing system, arrester hook system and TV monitoring system. All these features are being currently being used by the MiG-29Ks. The lighting system on SBTF for night operations is also ready," the official said.

He said the primary objective of the SBTF was for certification of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) naval variant for ship-borne operations. "It is mandatory for the LCA naval variant to prove the carrier compatibility test on SBTF. Today, the facility is aiding the MiG-29K pilots, before they commence operations on INS Vikramaditya in Karwar," he said.

The design consultancy and supply of specialized equipment for SBTF were done by the JSC Rosoboronexport, Russia. The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), Indian Navy, Goa Shipyard Ltd, R&D Engineers (Pune) and Chief Construction Engineer (R&D West), Pune, executed various structural and installation works. "Once the LCA naval variants start flying at SBTF, then plans are afoot to have a telemetry ground station for flight operations, to be set up by Bangalore-based National Flight Test Centre," the official said.

ADA sources said that the naval prototype (NP-1) of LCA started flight trials regularly at HAL airport thrashing out most of the undercarriage issues. The NP-1 is expected to start trials from SBTF by May this year.

jahaju · Post by **jahaju** » 26 Feb 2014 22:34

LCA Flight Status Update

2475th flight on 31 Jan 2014
TD1 : 233 TD2 : 305 PV1: 242 PV2: 222 PV3: 381 PV5: 36 LSP1: 74 LSP2: 290 LSP3: 183 LSP4: 110 LSP5: 246 LSP7: 77 LSP8 : 65 NP1: 11

2492nd flight on 21 Feb 2014
TD1 : 233 TD2 : 305 PV1: 242 PV2: 222 PV3: 381 PV5: 36 LSP1: 74 LSP2: 290 LSP3: 191 LSP4: 110 LSP5: 246 LSP7: 77 LSP8 : 73 NP1: 12

In Italics - Grounded Aircrafts
Green Color - Last flown Aircraft

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 27 Feb 2014 04:53

I don't think this article was posted ... It contains interesting info.

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 679737.ece

BERHAMPUR, February 12, 2014

Indigenous regional transport aircraft is the next aim, said the architect of Tejas, the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Kota Harinarayana, who now holds the D.S. Kothari Chair at Aeronautical Development Agency, Bangalore. Dr. Harinarayana hails from Berhampur in Odisha and was on a visit to his home State and town ....

He said they were also trying to develop a more powerful engine that would power the second variant Tejas Mark II, which may take few more years. “Our team is also making efforts to prepare indigenous mature engines for our LCA, which may take another five to six years. As the Tejas is a single engine aircraft, no chances can be taken,” he said.

There was an Oct. 2013 story, "New tailwinds for Kaveri engine."
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/k ... 190724.ece

The indigenous Kaveri aero engine, conceived to power home-built fighter plane Tejas but generally written off as a 25-year, Rs. 2,100-crore drain on resources, now looks set to resume where it left off two years ago and complete the last lap of its development.

A surprisingly strong nudge from the government and prospects of good funds in recent months have given tailwinds to the engine programme; a revised proposal has been made on the government’s advice for the remaining part of the Kaveri activity, according to DRDO Director General (Aero) K. Tamilmani and Director, Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) C.P. Ramanarayanan. They did not elaborate on what the proposals are.

varunalh · Post by **varunalh** » 03 Mar 2014 11:47

Latest news from ADA "First designated commanding officer of the IAF flies LCA Tejas LSP 8"

http://gallery.tejas.gov.in/Gallery/LSP ... &k=TggQGh3

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Mar 2014 22:19

NRao wrote:well, the IAF needs quality in quantities. As of yesterday.

The Labs need experience (and funds?) and thus need tomorrow.

What is common is doorot aye. So, I do not mind the IAF waiting some and hurrying the Labs a little.

Not meant to answer any questions.

tell me which work is not lab experience.. do we measure and take metrics to say, now they are experienced!? experience of making slow paced work is not an experience of an agile work. if i am experienced to work with flying dakota, i can't be called an expert flyer of migs. apples vs oranges.

getting up to speed on tech is one aspect, and not taking things on their own hands is important aspect that they should not forget. i think times are changing, and they are not changing with times. they can't be sitting with some experience gain thinking that it will help future.. come back to future, they say, well we did not have the next gen experience.

well we will also achieve what the khans and russkies achieved 500 years back is no big experience at all. i am sorry to get annoyed at this argument.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 04 Mar 2014 20:25

varunalh wrote:Latest news from ADA "First designated commanding officer of the IAF flies LCA Tejas LSP 8"

http://gallery.tejas.gov.in/Gallery/LSP ... &k=TggQGh3

More good news and pictures (2014 Leh-Winter Trials):

There is a video too.

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 04 Mar 2014 23:55

jahaju wrote:LCA Flight Status Update

2475th flight on 31 Jan 2014
TD1 : 233 TD2 : 305 PV1: 242 PV2: 222 PV3: 381 PV5: 36 LSP1: 74 LSP2: 290 LSP3: 183 LSP4: 110 LSP5: 246 LSP7: 77 LSP8 : 65 NP1: 11

2492nd flight on 21 Feb 2014
TD1 : 233 TD2 : 305 PV1: 242 PV2: 222 PV3: 381 PV5: 36 LSP1: 74 LSP2: 290 LSP3: 191 LSP4: 110 LSP5: 246 LSP7: 77 LSP8 : 73 NP1: 12

In Italics - Grounded Aircrafts
Green Color - Last flown Aircraft

Question - what website is the flight status update from ? Thanks

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 05 Mar 2014 01:25

Sanjay wrote:[Question - what website is the flight status update from ? Thanks

Go to http://www.ada.gov.in and click on Archives and then "New Archives" and select year to view the updates

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 05 Mar 2014 02:01

Can somebody positively ID the second airfield shown in the latest video? To me, it appears to be Srinagar.

indranilroy wrote:
More good news and pictures (2014 Leh-Winter Trials):

There is a video too.

Indrajit · Post by **Indrajit** » 05 Mar 2014 07:17

That was an awesome video!

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 18 Mar 2014 13:18

Any news on SP-1 & 2. These planes were expected to fly before 31st march as per media reports??

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 18 Mar 2014 17:26

This thread has really slowed down. Wish there are some nice juicy updates

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 18 Mar 2014 19:07

Well given the History of LCAA, really doubt the March deadline will be met

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Mar 2014 19:10

http://www.newindianexpress.com/defence ... yhTwoVawmJ

With all modifications, the FTB is expected to cost over `100 crore. The DRDO sources tell Express that many industries and government firms were on the hunt for a suitable platform to undertake standalone tests of critical components and systems. With the increase in indigenous aeronautical activities within the country, the initial plan was to go for a foreign aircraft and later equip it with Indian systems.

“Embraer was one of the candidates we looked at. Generally the test and design data of an imported aircraft are not shared owing to the proprietary clause. We couldn’t have flown our own FTB without knowing these details either.

So the plane to import was shelved and DO-228 was the automatic choice. HAL’s TAD Kanpur have all the expertise available with them in manufacturing the Dorniers,” an official said.

With the arrival of a new FTB, the DRDO hopes that the development time for various projects will come down. “The FTB will come handy for all airborne system evaluations. We hope to test all systems of Tejas, unmanned air vehicles on the FTB. In addition, radars, antennas, radio altimeters, data links and ATOL systems (automatic take-off and landing) will now take the FTB route.

So far some limited Indian radars were tested with Israeli help,” the official said.

The DRDO has put two consoles on the yet-to-be-named FTB, with the potential for adding two more. The new FTB is expected to serve the needs to DRDO for the next 20 years.

Currently, the Centre for Airborne Systems, DRDO lab, operates an Avro for limited tests. The new FTB will be on the rolls of Electronics & Radar Development Establishment, another DRDO lab, and it will be flown by the Test Pilots from Aircraft Systems Testing Establishment of the Indian Air Force.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 18 Mar 2014 19:34

Very, very good news. It is a risk, but one they should have taken eons ago.

Coupling this with the MKI drama, wonder how the FGFA decision making will be impacted. IMHO, the FGFA is very slowly sinking.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Mar 2014 20:02

How is it a risk? Its a positive step up and one hung up because DRDO is drip fed funds.

About the FGFA, its like the Rafale, too big to fail and meant for another thread.

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 18 Mar 2014 20:04

In that video, is that grey fin part of EW upgrade? ~~This is not present in earlier videos or photos.~~ Its not an airbrake for sure.
edit-the fin below the nose
edit2- fin is visible in ironfist videos as well as older ones. my bad

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 18 Mar 2014 20:45

Which grey fin. Please identify.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 18 Mar 2014 21:23

How is it a risk?

Testing is always a risk. Rate of failures will be very high - but, if one wants to make progress, it is unavoidable.

Its a positive step up and one hung up because DRDO is drip fed funds.

A very, very +ve step. Very glad they took it. BUT, I really wish they had taken this years earlier.

Yeah, perhaps, funds were/are an issue. You know that better.

Now on to the next step: start using this platform as much as possible and establish the needed data to make REAL progress. They need to move with the thinking that they will never ask for "ToT".

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Mar 2014 21:33

+1 sir