Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Will · Post by **Will** » 28 Feb 2014 17:55

AKA get out of your slumber and issue at least the RFP for the P75i now.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Feb 2014 17:55

Imo once made cinc the person should be given a 3 yr tenure regardless of retirement age.
that way only 3 best ppl every decade

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 28 Feb 2014 18:06

Notwithstanding the tragic situation I think there is a concentrated effort to

Malign the IN's submarines

Malign the IN's Kilo submarines

Malign the Soviet submarines

Could this be a dastardly campaign to ensure that P 75I is a western design and not a Russian design ?

Could this be a dastardly campaign to ensure that we do not have sub launched Brahmos ? If 75I is a western design then it may not carry Brahmos

Just thinking pervertly

K

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Feb 2014 18:11

Yes but that opening came due to the kilo accidents in first place.
chicken came before egg.

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 28 Feb 2014 18:43

Admiral Joshi's firm support bailed out many desi defence projects

Bangalore: Admiral D K Joshi, who stepped down as the Chief of Naval Staff (CNS) is sure to be missed by the R&D fraternity for the firm support he extended to some of the home-grown programmes. Terming him as a 'gentleman-officer, senior officials who spoke to Express, said that Joshi was always a huge supporter of India's research and development (R&D) efforts in the defence sector.

The naval variant of Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) which had ran into long delays owing to multiple manufacturing flaws, including a bulky undercarriage, is one programme Joshi backed right from his tenure as the Deputy CNS. An official monitoring the current progress of naval LCA project says that Joshi never lost his confidence in the programme, even when the entire naval establishment vented its ire over unprecedented delays. "Today, if the naval LCA project is back on track, Admiral Joshi needs to be given the credit. He did an excellent job and moderated the progress at the right time, ensuring the right pace. Even when the senior-most naval officers minced no words over the delays, Joshi stood ground and saw through the issues. This brought in an attitudinal change from the the Navy towards project," says the official.

He said Joshi's calm approach had a positive impact on the project. "During all the review meetings, he told the naval LCA team that quality mattered and the delays were understandable. Considering that there were multiple agencies involved in the project, Joshi's backing came at a very crucial time," he said.

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), which often received flack from the Services for time and cost over-runs of various projects, saw a messiah in Joshi, who is said to have gone the extra mile, during various project reviews. "Not just Tejas, even for submarine and torpedo projects he was always on our side. He understood the R&D efforts and we always felt very comfortable to work with the Navy. He always wanted more prototypes for all projects and dealt very friendly when a serious issue came up. His participative nature was very heart-warming," says an official with the DRDO.

While the Indian Navy traditionally backed India's home-grown efforts in R&D, it was very critical of the Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) from Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL). While HAL made many modifications on ALH to meet the additional requirements, it failed to impress the Navy for a long time. "In the 5.5. tonne weight category, ALH demonstrated everything what was demanded from us. But the Navy wasn't happy which delayed its induction. Only after Admiral Joshi took charge, the Navy finally raised its first ALH squadron (INAS-322) in Kochi. His role is known to everyone who pushed for the ALH's case," says an HAL official.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Feb 2014 20:18

The Naval LCA should be named Josh after him.

The root cause for this accident is the submarine batteries leaking. The fire suppression system exacerbated the accident with the deaths and injuries. So need o have two corrective actions and not just command failure.
The environment that allowed these two causes to persist is the Rakhsa Mantri and his minions who did not fund adequately to deal with the causes.

vina why not develop a a fault-tree with those two lines and see what it turns up. We can have tsarkar as referee.

nelson · Post by **nelson** » 28 Feb 2014 20:36

Commanders at all levels in the armed forces can be broadly classified into two categories depending on how they react when there is a situation like INS Sindhurakshak.

Example, for an accident during training there will be

1. those who recoil and act fail-safe in all respects. cancel further training or even conduct fake training. project the incident as oneoff or blue moon. Take good reports otherwise and proceed higher. They succeed, yet they fail the services in preparation for war.

2. those who collect themselves and push the pedal. start training at the earliest after initial inquiries. take action unmindful of future consequences. They know their chances of failure, but prepare their service for success in war.

The ones of the latter kind are dwindling fast, IMO. Adm D K Joshi is one of that kind.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 28 Feb 2014 21:06

Ramana wrote:How does that matter, for the MoD wouldnt have bought anything anyway? It kept the reputation clean and the IAF happy to tryout some out of reach toys. It like my taking the kids to FAO Schwartz to try out the latest new toys and later walkout not buying anything.
Does that make me a good parent?

Focussing on his 'obsession' masks the real purpose of his tenure. Its to get money allocated and returned unspent to feed the populist government programs.

Ramana, you are right that at te end of the day, AKAs contribution is too little too late and in this issue in particular, he let the nation and the services down...first the VKS affair, then the attacks on the IA on the LOC and now this, each time he was found wanting.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Feb 2014 21:18

One can never rule out hidden enemies within and from external forces - pakis, chips, massans and perhaps even the brits.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 28 Feb 2014 21:21

Sensational! According to senior naval officers,Headlines Today on right now,say that the Sindhuratna sailed with batteries ,200 of them,which were past their expiry date! The new battery acquisition was held up by the usual suspect...the MOD/AKA!

If a sailor is found sleeping during his watch during wartime,he is shot,Surely it is past time to courtmartial the shameless Deaf Minister of India,AK Anthony? The families of he officers killed are demanding accountability.This issue will not die.It may very well go to court to establish the dereliction of duty by the DM and MOD,the prime suspects responsible for this tragedy which was waiting to happen,as another revelation by the TV channel says that the "red light" about the critical condition of the IN's subs was given to AKA as far back as 2010!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Feb 2014 21:26

Philip, It needs even more the resignation of Adm DK Joshi. When USN was faced with similar crisis in 1949, 21 Admirals all resigned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_the_Admirals

now USN rules the waves.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Feb 2014 21:32

MOD should be delinked from purchases of preventive hardware, items, spares (any ops related purchase) etc.... Joint force board - non political setup is the need of the hour. heck how many ears this has to be told for some realiziation?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Feb 2014 21:45

This is "clean Mundu' AKA modus operandi.

srutayus wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 969620.cms
The projects cleared included the up-gradation of 37 more IAF airbases (Rs 1,125 crore), modernization of five ordnance depots (Rs 1,800 crore), 4,000 hand-held thermal imagers for soldiers (Rs 1,400 crore), 5,000 thermal imaging sights for tanks and infantry combat vehicles (Rs 2,825 crore), 44,000 light-machine guns (Rs 1,328 crore) and 702 light armoured multi-purpose vehicles (Rs 1,200 crore).
Do we know if the vendor for the 702 light armoured multi-purpose vehicles has been finalized? I do hope that it is a Domestic vendor. Tata, Ashok Leyland, M&M all have vehicles in this category. The Tata vehicle developed with Supacat and exhibited at the Defexpo looks particularly promising.
The additional Thermal Imager procurement for T90s could hint at further issues with this unfortunate import.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 28 Feb 2014 23:02

I have spent time with some senior army and navy officers over the last few days. A couple of them know senior flag officers and told me that Adm Joshi had told his PSOs that he felt he was getting nowhere in getting the navy its due from the government. He had recently asked all junior officers of the navy to write to him directly with any comments and ideas and that exercise had been very positive. He was doing a great job but felt very let down by the government and felt that his resignation was the only option left . I then spoke to a dear friend who is on a vessel in the Eastern Fleet and he told me that Adm Joshi was very highly regarded and that morale was low. Morale is rock bottom in the army as well(more on a diff thread). Very worrying state of affairs. Its a tragedy that perhaps one of the finest senior officers amongst all services had to fall on his sword. Even sadder that nothing will come of it.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 28 Feb 2014 23:05

Perhaps he should have stuck on and left only on the eve of elections showing the truth of the UPA for everyone to see.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 28 Feb 2014 23:06

They don't think like that.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 28 Feb 2014 23:24

Yes, I understand. But its such a shame to lose a good officer with a year more to go, and this stupid Govt is busy gutting the services.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 28 Feb 2014 23:25

BTW why is morale at rock bottom in the Army?

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 28 Feb 2014 23:28

Akshay Kapoor wrote:I have spent time with some senior army and navy officers over the last few days. A couple of them know senior flag officers and told me that Adm Joshi had told his PSOs that he felt he was getting nowhere in getting the navy its due from the government. He had recently asked all junior officers of the navy to write to him directly with any comments and ideas and that exercise had been very positive. He was doing a great job but felt very let down by the government and felt that his resignation was the only option left . I then spoke to a dear friend who is on a vessel in the Eastern Fleet and he told me that Adm Joshi was very highly regarded and that morale was low. Morale is rock bottom in the army as well(more on a diff thread). Very worrying state of affairs. Its a tragedy that perhaps one of the finest senior officers amongst all services had to fall on his sword. Even sadder that nothing will come of it.

Same as what I am hearing from my end as well.

I think this government has done almost exactly what Nehru and Menon had done back in the 50s: destroying the backbone of the armed forces through corruption, inactivity and blatant disregard.

It will take years to rebuild (if at all) the kind of sagging morale we are starting to see now.

Actually, the morale on BRF isn't doing much better either since a lot of folks are arriving at similar conclusions.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 28 Feb 2014 23:55

There is the government.
......................................................................{<------------------between the lines is what matters}
And, then there are the people.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 01 Mar 2014 01:17

Meet the 'poster boy' of the Indian Navy

He is Vice Admiral Robin Dhowan, ViceChief of Naval Staff, is called the 'poster boy' of the Indian Navy, for his 'soft' , 'chocolaty' , 'feminine' looks. Apparently he keeps a change of dress in his office, and also touches-up his make-up before presentations to be given in headquarters.

He took over as Chief of Naval Staff today, afer the unceremonious exit of his predecessor- Adm DK Joshi.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 01 Mar 2014 02:40

Yes NR,indeed there are the people the.........Aam Aadmi brigade! Fuhrer Kejriwal,ReichsFuhrer Bharti,et al.

Morale in the IA is very low.Extremely harsh conditions,ancient or non-existant eqpt.,and increasing depression amongst officers and jawans leading to cases like the jawan who shot dead 6 of his sleeping comrades a day or two ago.Gen.VKS sends an SOS to the Deaf Min. about the Army's inability to fight beyond 4 days,and the deaf and dumb mute treats it in the same manner when he was told about the Tatra scam (keeps quiet for a whole year until the Gen. exposes it).The Navy sends him an SOS in 20008,2009,4 times in 2012 about the sub crisis and what does AKA do? Acts again like a deaf and dumb mute.No need to also list out the IAF's pleas for new aircraft ,required in the hundreds with the 50+ yr. old MIG-21 type retiring! India probably holds the Guinness book of world records for using weapon systems long after their "second birth".MIG-21s are 50 yrs. old,the Viraat is also 50+ yrs old too,we acquire the Trenton /Jalashwa amphib vessel,which was 30+ yrs old too,which also killed a few sailors,and our Kilos have also reached the 30 yr. old mark.Perhaps AKA is waiting for another 20 yrs. of service for the Kilos,or until they sink on their own,and MIGs crash ,before thinking about replacements.

He probably is taking his cue from his beloved PM,"Snake-oil Singh",the master of mouthless non-governance.
But who will replace the loss of life of priceless officers of the armed forces?
There is a limit beyond which if pushed,the armed forces will crumble.The resignation of the Navy chief is the first sign of collapse.Imagine the scenario if more and more senior top brass quit in disgust? Will our spotless dhotiwallah just keep on accepting resignations?

President Pranab M.You are the C-in-Chief of the armed forces.It is your moral responsibility to stem the rot.You can return bills to the govt. if you disagree with them,so too can you take the moral high ground and exercise your disgust at the cavalier and criminal manner in which the armed forces are being destroyed by your erstwhile colleague.You should not have accepted the Navy Chief's resignation and demanded a thorough inquiry ,also of the Def. Min's role and culpability before deciding.The IN has been sending SOS's from 2008 and nothing was done ! If you do not support the services,then even you will lose their respect and that of the people of India.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Mar 2014 03:15

Philip wrote:.The IN has been sending SOS's from 2008 and nothing was done ! If you do not support the services,then even you will lose their respect and that of the people of India.[/b]

Appealing to the wrong man who was rumored to be main suspect in sabotaging Qatari Mirage deal for personal/political reasons.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 01 Mar 2014 03:28

Well,he is now the C-in-C! The buck stops with him.The Pres. does have the power to exercise his disapproval and his moral viewpoint.Pres.Kalam did so-why the UPA never wanted him to have a second term.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 01 Mar 2014 04:02

This sounds alarmist to me but you never know

Former Naval Chief Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat says submarine tragedies were waiting to happen

India's security including naval security is completely compromised and both the Congress Party and the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) have played an active role in bringing the country to this situation, former navy chief Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat, told The News Minute (TNM).

In an exclusive interview, he said the Sindhuratna and the Sindhurakshak tragedies were waiting to happen. "The onslaught on the Indian navy has been constant, deliberate and detailed and all political parties are hand-in-glove with the geo-political games played by NATO and their allies," the former navy chief said.

"In terms of material, personnel and leadership we stand completely exposed. This is one of the world's best kept secrets. A series of agreements made with the US government as well as the UK leadership, especially in the last six years has resulted in a situation that will take years to reverse," the former admiral said.

"The arms lobby which includes names that are with every government in Delhi work out of London, in most cases where they have been given peerages and Lordships," he added. "There is much more, much much more to the disaster in the navy than what is being reported," the former head of the Indian navy told TNM.

He said the United States and their NATO allies have detailed photographs of all strategic sites in India including places of worship and congregation. "The security of this nation has been outsourced to commercial interests," he said.

Bhagwat told TNM Indian acquired its first submarine from the erstwhile Soviet Union in 1964 on terms of trade that required India to repay in the first month of June after 14 years of date of sale. The interest rate was 1.8% per annum. "We paid with bananas as well as underwear from Ludhiana," he said and added "Langley is very well versed about every move that India makes and does not make. In fact, we are auto-controlled." Langley in the United States is the headquarters of the CIA.

"To unjustly remove Admiral D K Joshi, errors committed by the coast guard were also being attributed to the Indian Navy in a selective campaign in the press, of planted stories and that the Submarine arm was being denied replacement, spare and specialists, this despite a submarine programme submitted by me in 1998. It is common knowledge that 10-15% of hired officers , cadre owe their broad allegiance to the Western Alliance system as per a published study by the United States itself", he said.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 Mar 2014 07:04

State of the Navy

Among others:

As the daughter of a naval officer, the sister of two and the mother of one, it grieves me — as all of us in the family — each time the Navy or the armed forces suffer what the media and the top brass of the forces refer to as “incidents/accidents.” It is an undeniable fact that our equipment is obsolete, and so our safety standards are compromised. And this leads to the ‘n’ number of errors, both human and mechanical, that in turn cause these “mishaps.” I also wonder if the most recent incident, and the consequent action of the (now, sadly, former) Naval chief, rendered in the highest traditions of the services, will impact what is to come — better equipment and therefore better safety standards. The media have also done good service. We, the families of sailors who sail the high seas, hope, pray and live with the faith that at least lord Varuna will have mercy. “Sham No Varuna” is the prayer on every mariner’s lips, and their families.

Usha Pisharody,

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 01 Mar 2014 08:08

Karan M wrote:BTW why is morale at rock bottom in the Army?

1. Izzat - its a cliche but izzat is the most important thing for the armd forces, especially the army. They are now treated (has been going on for a long time but last 10 years have been the worst) as a second class service compared to IAS, IPS (some say third class) or other parts of government. When an army officer or a soldier tries to get things done in civil they are treated like dirt.

2. Culture - values, ethos are under pressure. Small compromises being made with important values lead to a tear in the moral fabric which becomes bigger and bigger. Big topic. Will discuss separately.

3. Hands tied behind their back. One of the most respected recent army commanders told me about the severe political pressure being brought to bear on us not to retaliate on LOC and LAC. That was toxic to morale. And then troops see the COAS wax eloquent about action and do nothing. Nobody can fathom the govt's national security strategy. It beggars belief. Its clear to the rank and file that govt does not care about national security and perhaps some elements are actively anti national security. The army is an instrument of the state and the govt is destroying it. Jawans and offrs see that.

4. Leadership - quality of junior and senior leadership not what it used to be. Army has become an unattractive avenue and doesn't attract the best - low pay, bad living conditions (peace time) etc etc. Senior leadership is perceived as spineless. Perception is (and I agree) that we had one decent army chief in a long time and he was hounded and allegations like coup made on him. And the best army commanders are not allowed to become chiefs. KT Parnaik who would have succeeded VKS after a 3 year tenure was good. Anil Chait who was recently shunted out of Central Command after doing a brilliant job in Uttarakhand is also good.

5. Structure - Army getting top heavy, rank loosing its value, senior command tenures being very short etc.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 01 Mar 2014 08:14

Philip wrote:Well,he is now the C-in-C! The buck stops with him.The Pres. does have the power to exercise his disapproval and his moral viewpoint.Pres.Kalam did so-why the UPA never wanted him to have a second term.

Philip sir, he is the Supreme Commander. CnC is used in Navy and IAF to denote FOCnCs and AOCnCs.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 01 Mar 2014 08:25

Looks like we are steadily drifting towards a 1962 type situation.

In 1999 also, Pakistan attacked because the Indian armed forces had been weakened after 10 years of neglect. The NDA Govt then was forced to fight a war that was caused by the inadequate funding of armed forces by previous governments.

Now it seems another NDA Govt will be forced to fight a war because of the ruins caused in the armed forces by its predecessor UPA government.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 01 Mar 2014 08:28

Tx Akshay for pointing out the error,I mixed up the two in haste.

Adm.Bhagwat's statements are exceptionally alarming.Even a casual observation of the IN's international role and exercises shows that it has been "orchestrated" by Langley.The MMS regime is so blatantly servile to Yanqui interests that it is nauseating how it bootlicks and crawls in obeisance to its masters.The great "takeaway" of India by the Yanquis has been facilitated by Surrender Singh,mendicant of snake-oil,who has beggared the nation,while his Sancho Panza,the "Saint" has butchered the armed forces.Not too long ago,I asked one in the know why the defence acquisition decisions were being delayed for so long.He said that it was a deliberate plot by the US to destroy the capability of the Indian armed forces and "Americanise" the remnants which would serve US interests best.With the US downgrading its capability due to its financial situ,it does not want the vacuum to be replaced by a strong India armed forces.

If the "Saint" is deaf to the pleas of the armed forces,the PM is dumb.What a marvellous "deaf and dumb" combo!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Mar 2014 09:18

Kakkaji wrote:Looks like we are steadily drifting towards a 1962 type situation.
In 1999 also, Pakistan attacked because the Indian armed forces had been weakened after 10 years of neglect. The NDA Govt then was forced to fight a war that was caused by the inadequate funding of armed forces by previous governments.Now it seems another NDA Govt will be forced to fight a war because of the ruins caused in the armed forces by its predecessor UPA government.

Imagine the situation if armed forces were forced to fill relgion based quota as per MMS's heart content. India,not Ukraine or Syria or Egypt,will be fighting for survival.Sooner this Pakindian man go better for the security of India. How many BRFites had this first thought about substandard equipment/batteries causing the accident when they heard about this incident? Soon we will hear that new Batteries were not ordered becuase of Congi middleman was in process of replacing the old vendor.

negi · Post by **negi** » 01 Mar 2014 10:11

It is a bit wierd that Vice Admiral Sinha was not chosen as a replacement , he is probably the last of the finest bunch of naval aviators in the IN he has commanded both the sea hawks and the sea harriers sqds and served on both Vik and Viraat. From seniority perspective he is second in line after Admiral Joshi.

Personal opinion about someone's persona aside just based on ACRs it is hard to believe that sonemone like Vice Admiral Sinha would fall short on merit.

Even a cursory glance at profiles of next in line candidates shows where the navy is going there was time when sea time and squadron postings were awarded high credits now the resumes look filled with xyz leadership course some training in USA and then a desk job at NHQ or MOD .

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Mar 2014 10:18

Wasn't vadm Cheema commanding the viraat a while back?

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 01 Mar 2014 10:34

Rony wrote:This sounds alarmist to me but you never know

Former Naval Chief Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat says submarine tragedies were waiting to happen

"The onslaught on the Indian navy has been constant, deliberate and detailed and all political parties are hand-in-glove with the geo-political games played by NATO and their allies," the former navy chief said.

"In terms of material, personnel and leadership we stand completely exposed. This is one of the world's best kept secrets. A series of agreements made with the US government as well as the UK leadership, especially in the last six years has resulted in a situation that will take years to reverse," the former admiral said.
He said the United States and their NATO allies have detailed photographs of all strategic sites in India including places of worship and congregation. "The security of this nation has been outsourced to commercial interests," he said.
Langley is very well versed about every move that India makes and does not make. In fact, we are auto-controlled." Langley in the United States is the headquarters of the CIA.

"To unjustly remove Admiral D K Joshi, errors committed by the coast guard were also being attributed to the Indian Navy in a selective campaign in the press, of planted stories and that the Submarine arm was being denied replacement, spare and specialists, this despite a submarine programme submitted by me in 1998. It is common knowledge that 10-15% of hired officers , cadre owe their broad allegiance to the Western Alliance system as per a published study by the United States itself", he said.

What are the agreements signed with US and UK? Don't remember reading about these on BRF in last 5 years.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Mar 2014 10:44

India today.

seems kilos used batts from Mumbai based standard btry now owned by exide.
never any issue. Then hyd based hilife batry who had supplied fr arihant took navy to court and lobbied mod to end single vendor
deal. So sratna did not get new exide batts in dec 2013

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Mar 2014 10:50

I think hilife is maker of amaron car batts also. They r good and ppl buy them more than Exide these days but mod should not have blocked new Exide batts until this matter was resolved by tenders nd tests. Arihant does not depend on batts to extent kilos do when submerged..fr hilife it was a new application too.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Mar 2014 10:52

Rony wrote:Meet the 'poster boy' of the Indian Navy

He is Vice Admiral Robin Dhowan, ViceChief of Naval Staff, is called the 'poster boy' of the Indian Navy, for his 'soft' , 'chocolaty' , 'feminine' looks. Apparently he keeps a change of dress in his office, and also touches-up his make-up before presentations to be given in headquarters.

He took over as Chief of Naval Staff today, afer the unceremonious exit of his predecessor- Adm DK Joshi.

This is silly and vicious. Crossing all bounds of decency and reporting.

Makes one wonder what was denied to this greedy publicity seeking lady(?)..

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Mar 2014 11:01

Singha wrote:I think hilife is maker of amaron car batts also. They r good and ppl buy them more than Exide these days but mod should not have blocked new Exide batts until this matter was resolved by tenders nd tests. Arihant does not depend on batts to extent kilos do when submerged..fr hilife it was a new application too.

Amaron is made by amar raja batteries.

BTW, The hyd company has a chequered history.

negi · Post by **negi** » 01 Mar 2014 11:05

^Problem is with entire logistics and procurement process , MOD to chootiyenandan hai hi. Even within the IN procurement is archaic process say if there a
re 4 vendors in the market for a commodity and it's market price is X INR the IN will buy same at X+Y from only one vendor (there is a system of onboarding and short listing vendors) which is pre-selected and in case it does not have supply IN will wait instead of buying from other 3 vendors this is just one such example of red tape and facilitating corruption and introducing unnecessary overheads in the system .

Another issue is the manner in which refit of ships is undertaken , after every long deployment when a ship berths at a port for refit and crew chnage the CO and crew are on the hook to turn around the ship for a Shivalik classy this could be 1 month and each and every sub system needs to be checked before ship takes to the sea again , however more importance is given to adherence to 1 month time period than thoroughness of the refit process for it is taken for granted that next batch of crew will manage with jugaad even if few non essential systems are not working. Afaik one of the Shivalik class went on OSD even when it could not attain it's designed top speed due to issue with bearings of the main shaft. No one in the IN comes out and says that ship will not sail because xyz is not working that culture is not there men are trained and expected to follow orders i.e. turn around ye ship in 1 month and that is what happens if someone misses that deadline his ACR gets a adverse remark all in all just sticking to deadlines is encouraged .

The ineptness of Dockyard is another issue even there most of the Dockyard admin is ex IN so they play by the same rules.

negi · Post by **negi** » 01 Mar 2014 11:09

Services are very good at following established procedures however they are very bad at reforming or restructuring processes for they are trained to follow orders and stick to rules, they need to revisit their processes for systems and platforms are getting complicated and one cannot throw men at such problems new processes are needed and importance be given to supporting departments like logistics and procurement .