Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 14 Mar 2014 08:05

Most radar can be evaded by flying low, apparently. Most radar operates in a cone from the ground. Unless it is look-down radar?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 14 Mar 2014 08:09

MH 194 KULBOM- 820P1055P...................Only flight opearetd with 777
MH 190 KULDEL- 650P 950P

MH 180 KULMAA-1015P1130P
MH 182 KULMAA- 930A1045A
MH 192 KULBLR-1000P1130P

MH 196 KULDAC- 850P1040P
MH 102 KULDAC- 940A1130A
None of them crosses date line. Definitely it was not the wrong signal/ pinging picked by satelite or RR from flight toward India.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 14 Mar 2014 08:10

As I mentioned this morning, Unkil is in full control now. Key question on my mind. This latest pinging data, why did the Malaysians not disclose this earlier?

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 14 Mar 2014 08:11

UlanBatori wrote:Most radar can be evaded by flying low, apparently. Most radar operates in a cone from the ground. Unless it is look-down radar?

7.5 hours = 4 hours+ + controlled flight + uncertainty/non-cruise flight/crash before fuel out/uncertainty

well within noise compared to other theories. one destroyer in indian ocean isnt finding anything unless a drone from DG has already sighted something.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 14 Mar 2014 08:14

Jhujar wrote:MH 194 KULBOM- 820P1055P...................Only flight opearetd with 777
MH 190 KULDEL- 650P 950P

MH 180 KULMAA-1015P1130P
MH 182 KULMAA- 930A1045A
MH 192 KULBLR-1000P1130P

MH 196 KULDAC- 850P1040P
MH 102 KULDAC- 940A1130A
None of them crosses date line. Definitely it was not the wrong signal/ pinging picked by satelite or RR from flight toward India.

Other possibilities exist -- what does ACARS do when it does not get expected data. Does it look around for a missing plane or wait around?

All this pinging business is a cover story. To this untrained eye.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 14 Mar 2014 08:15

I think these destroyers have at least one helicopter. Slightly better than one guy with binoculars up on the mast. But as u say, quite unlikely to find anything unless other satellite/UAV assets provide guidance.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 14 Mar 2014 08:22

UlanBatori wrote:Most radar can be evaded by flying low, apparently. Most radar operates in a cone from the ground. Unless it is look-down radar?

At what height 7.5 hours worth of fuel is consumed in 4 hours? Is that height low enough to evade radar?

(well I see Shreeman already beat me to it

)

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 14 Mar 2014 08:26

UlanBatori wrote:I think these destroyers have at least one helicopter. Slightly better than one guy with binoculars up on the mast. But as u say, quite unlikely to find anything unless other satellite/UAV assets provide guidance.

Kidd has two MH-60R. But no guarantee water is not deep enough wherever they are going. Underwater bit is too far fetched for now. Hope is for something on the surface.

member_28440 · Post by **member_28440** » 14 Mar 2014 08:33

Oil rig worker thinks he saw plane go down in flames

SINGAPORE: In yet another twist to the mystery of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, a New Zealand oil rig worker has come forward to say he believes he saw the airplane on fire right around the time it disappeared.

Mike McKay, a worker on the "Songa Mercur" drilling platform in the South China Sea, sent an email to his bosses detailing his version of events.

He said he "observed the plane burning at high altitude...in one piece" about 50-70km from his location, Business Insider reported.

He gave coordinates for the location of the rig, which recently moved from Cuba to the shores of Vietnam.

McKay's employer confirms that the letter, posted online by several news outlets on Thursday, is authentic.

McKay, who carries a New Zealand passport, said that he tried to contact Malaysian and Vietnam officials about what he saw "several days ago", adding that he had received no confirmation that they got his message.

"I believe I saw the Malaysian Airlines plane come down. The timing is right," McKay said in the email.

"I observed (the plane?) burning at high altitude.

"While I observed the burning (plane) it appeared to be in ONE piece."

"From when I first saw the burning (plane) until the flames went out (still at high altitude) was 10-15 seconds.

“There was no lateral movement, so it was either coming toward our location, stationary (falling) or going away from our location," he wrote.

Vietnamese officials confirmed to ABC News that they had received the letter. But they found nothing in the water at the location specified by McKay.

Given the apparent location of the rig, and the original flight path of MH370, it is possible that McKay is correct, the report said.

But that would also seem to discount the theory that the plane turned and headed in the complete opposite direction, as some military authorities have claimed.

Meanwhile, officials are expanding their search for the still-missing plane, and the 239 people on board. There are several reports indicating that the plane may have veered off its intended flight path and changed direction before disappearing from radar, but those reports conflict as to where, exactly it went.

At least 10 countries are involved in the Malaysian-led search for the missing jet, which carried passengers from at least 13 different countries, although most of the passengers were Chinese citizens. – The Straits Times/ANN

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 14 Mar 2014 08:39

That story is old, and VERY suspect. It comes from an email sent by gmail.

"observed the plane burning at high altitude...in one piece" about 50-70km from his location, Business Insider reported.

So the plane was at about 5 to 6, maybe 7, miles about ground. That's what - 8 to 10 km? Let's say 9. You can calculate the Sine-inverse of 9/60 and that is the angle above the horizontal. He saw it briefly. Most likely to be a meteor that he saw. Otherwise where is the wreckage?

The gmail was suspicious because it gave the writer's PASSPORT NUMBER (New Zealand), and was sent to someone. Why not give contact info for the rig instead?

Seems like a prank. Ppl should not do such things at such a time.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 14 Mar 2014 08:42

he should be having super human eyes to see an plane at 50-60 km

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Mar 2014 08:43

UlanBatori wrote:That story is old, and VERY suspect. It comes from an email sent by gmail.
"observed the plane burning at high altitude...in one piece" about 50-70km from his location, Business Insider reported.
So the plane was at about 5 to 6, maybe 7, miles about ground. That's what - 8 to 10 km? Let's say 9. You can calculate the Sine-inverse of 9/60 and that is the angle above the horizontal. He saw it briefly. Most likely to be a meteor that he saw. Otherwise where is the wreckage?

The gmail was suspicious because it gave the writer's PASSPORT NUMBER (New Zealand), and was sent to someone. Why not give contact info for the rig instead?

Seems like a prank. Ppl should not do such things at such a time.

Unless there is a vapor trail it is not possible for a human eye to see a plane at that distance. Meteor is possible.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 14 Mar 2014 08:48

BREAKING: Malaysia military tracked missing jet to Strait of Malacca. (Reuters) #MH370 #MalaysiaAirlines pic.twitter.com/2b425Illkx

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 14 Mar 2014 08:51

Or he had a few and saw a bright star, but then he was seeing it as 4 stars.
krishnan: these are again old stories, hain? They keep denying, then saying it again, then denying. Latest, they denied that what they tracked was even this plane.
Latest "breaking news" on See Enn Enn is "Likely that plane is at bottom of Indian Ocean".

If the US Navy says that, that's it. Nice closure to saga, everyone goes home. Maybe someone will keep exploring and find the wreckage outside Kuala Lumpur airport. Inspecteurs Clouseaux-e-Malay probably have not looked there.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 14 Mar 2014 08:57

what if they find it parked inside malaysia in some airport

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 14 Mar 2014 09:02

Any impact on Indian elections?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Mar 2014 09:07

alcohol is strictly not allowed in oil rigs. they get some shore time every 2-3 weeks and party wild though.
but maybe he had sneaked in a hip flask with some potent vietnamese brew, hit the deck hard and saw flashes of light in his head, woke up after a while, read the story and figured he had seen it all.

in tintin, they displayed this with the guy slumped on the ground with a ring of bells floating around the head.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Mar 2014 09:09

imo our A&N radar coverage would be patchy at best. one radar at campbell bay, one in port blair and one in car nicobar to complete the usual moth eaten indic picture methinks.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 14 Mar 2014 09:36

50-70km visibility in the South China Sea not too far from shore is not credible. That region is covered in a perpetual smoggy haze thanks to PRC and other nations in the area belching out so much crap. Visibility at that range isn't possible unless the atmospheric pollution level is very low, e.g. someplace like Antartica.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Mar 2014 09:36

CNN was reporting that Malayasia finally gave some access codes to the plane and US was able to determine its in the Indian Ocean bottom. Ships enroute. Sabr Karo log.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 14 Mar 2014 09:43

This huge US & PRC presence in IOR is unsettling, its even possible that the West & PRC are covertly installing a SOSUS (Sound Surveillance System) in the only ocean which does not have it yet, so that it makes Indian SSBN's & SSN's sitting ducks like the Soviet subs in the GIUK gap before the Akula came along.

Also, the graphic does not show US satellite assets, which means there is sure to be a covert angle to this story.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 14 Mar 2014 10:05

Diego Garcia already has SOSUS as pointed out earlier.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 14 Mar 2014 10:10

^^^ True, however the Malacca's do not have them. Its not present along the peripheries of the ocean & to the same size & scale as the Atlantic & Pacific networks. Malaysia may have been arm-twisted into this & forced to cooperate or else...

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 14 Mar 2014 10:36

OK! its been bothering me long enough. I'm finally going to say something....

The title of this thread should be corrected. WTH is Arilines?????

There I feel better....

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 14 Mar 2014 11:22

OT:

Theo, you should take the OCD test: http://www.buzzfeed.com/samir/things-th ... elf-insane

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 14 Mar 2014 11:23

The data reporting system, they believe, was shut down at 1:07 a.m. The transponder -- which transmits location and altitude -- shut down at 1:21 a.m.

This indicates it may well have been a deliberate act, ABC News aviation consultant John Nance said.

http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/03/13/us ... separately

habal · Post by **habal** » 14 Mar 2014 11:36

We should look at possibilities of 'remote hijack' using military satellites or awacs radar takeover. Only that can explain behaviour of transponder and blacking out radar coverage. No pilot has the capability to blank out the plane from satallite, whatever switches or controls he knows how to operate. Also explains why plane need not fly too low to escape acars coverage, it can be at high altitude and maybe just glide for another 500 kms even after it may start to run low on fuel, so indeed must have reached wherever it was intended to reach.

secondly CT that plane has been diverted to coco Island means someone is trying desperately to shift blame onto someone else. Because plane is already flying to Beijing then why the hell hijack it to coco islands.

what other bases does USA have in Indian ocean apart from DG ? Is there any agreement with Maldives ? Is there something that has come up recently ?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Mar 2014 11:58

er, a plane at 30,000ft can glide for another 30km maybe...not 500km....it aint no glider than use thermals cleverly.
and it would still need some form of power to operate the control surfaces and trim properly to land clean.

manish singh · Post by **manish singh** » 14 Mar 2014 12:02

Small nitpick. There is a spelling mistake in the title of the thread. "Arilines" instead of "Airlines".

habal · Post by **habal** » 14 Mar 2014 12:25

The Boeing 777 had enough fuel to fly the 4345km to Beijing and reserves to fly to a diversion airport.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-up ... 6855109746

vina · Post by **vina** » 14 Mar 2014 12:32

er, a plane at 30,000ft can glide for another 30km maybe...not 500km....it aint no glider than use thermals cleverly.
and it would still need some form of power to operate the control surfaces and trim properly to land clean.

G Chacha says 777 has a glide ratio of close to 20. For a plane at 10,000m cruise altitude, that translates into 200km!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Mar 2014 12:43

empty or loaded?

my statement was based on kanishka 747 bombing where I read in newspaper that figure for a similar altitude.

SDB/wing kit JDAMs are said to have a range of around 50-60km from 40,000ft and mach0.9 launch.

habal · Post by **habal** » 14 Mar 2014 13:05

that plane suffered a breach in structure & lose cabin pressure. So not ideal compare.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 14 Mar 2014 13:15

here's my theory, what are the chances to wannabe immigrants from Iran, took the controls switched off the transponder aand took the plane to Australia where it has crashed somewhere in Northern territories or the Desert.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 14 Mar 2014 13:25

the interpretation of "pinging" is that MAS did not use SATCOM for its ACARS but probably had SATCOM phone services on board. So the aircraft possibly was pinging to stay in the satcom network but for no specific purpose. from the SITA map published here earlier, there was plenty of VHF coverage on the route between Malaysia and Vietnam, so not scope for ACARS to be out of the loop.

an analysis of the AF crash showed that ice in pitot tubes led to airspeed input error into the autopilot which then disengaged, that led to a change in attitude - and a very experienced captain then manually commanded the aircraft into a nose up attitude through disorientation (dark skies no horizon) and trusting his primary instruments - which possibly also had faults. at the speed and height it was cruising at (sometimes known as "coffin corner") the margin for error was tiny and the aircraft stalled at relatively high speed and the crew were confused enough to not unstall it until it hit the ocean and sank. it took 4 days to find the debris on the surface and then 4 years to raise the wreck and the blackboxes. this human response has been given a new label apparently.

this is from the crash investigation report that was released very recently. (look up flightglobal website), in this case ACARS data was able to pinpoint the crash location to a 40mile radius circle in the ocean and the black box data was able to fill in the gaps.

the possibiity of something similar happening to MH370 is quite high

habal · Post by **habal** » 14 Mar 2014 13:27

conventional hijacking is almost impossible because nobody from inside the plane, neither pilot nor hijacker, can switch off the satellite-based radar tracking over IOR unless something jams the satellite frequency signals and that can be done only externally. I am expecting malaysians already know roughly where it is but aren't at a freedom to disclose it. They are playing for time and playing for alibis. Also the wild goose chase by countries like Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, China over malacca & eastern IOR is just a wasteful exercise. It has enough fuel to reach DG.

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 14 Mar 2014 13:50

Radar data suggests missing Malaysia plane flown deliberately toward Andamans - Reuters

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/ ... DG20140314

Two sources said an unidentified aircraft that investigators believe was Flight MH370 was following a route between navigational waypoints - indicating it was being flown by someone with aviation training - when it was last plotted on military radar off the country's northwest coast.

The last plot on the military radar's tracking suggested the plane was flying toward India's Andaman Islands, a chain of isles between the Andaman Sea and the Bay of Bengal, they said.

Waypoints are geographic locations, worked out by calculating longitude and latitude, that help pilots navigate along established air corridors.

A third source familiar with the investigation said inquiries were focusing increasingly on the theory that someone who knew how to fly a plane deliberately diverted the flight, with 239 people on board, hundreds of miles off its intended course from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

In a far more detailed description of the military radar plotting than has been publicly revealed, the first two sources said the last confirmed position of MH370 was at 35,000 feet about 90 miles off the east coast of Malaysia, heading towards Vietnam, near a navigational waypoint called "Igari". The time was 1:21 a.m..

The military track suggests it then turned sharply westwards, heading towards a waypoint called "Vampi", northeast of Indonesia's Aceh province and a navigational point used for planes following route N571 to the Middle East.

From there, the plot indicates the plane flew towards a waypoint called "Gival", south of the Thai island of Phuket, and was last plotted heading northwest towards another waypoint called "Igrex", on route P628 that would take it over the Andaman Islands and which carriers use to fly towards Europe.

The time was then 2:15 a.m. That is the same time given by the air force chief on Wednesday, who gave no information on that plane's possible direction.

Not sure if they were really flying to andaman. maybe they were just using predefined waypoints to fly to where ever else they were flying to else this news contradicts that 'flying for 4 hrs' bit.

Waypoints are in the navigation computers and easy to program a flight path rather than having to actually navigate while flying at night.

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 14 Mar 2014 14:31

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Mar 2014 14:57

can you explain the map please...what does the symbols mean?

vina · Post by **vina** » 14 Mar 2014 15:07

More Chinese bullish*itting. Seafloor event detected at last definite site of missing jet