Radar thread - specs & discussions

[Kersi D]

Some numbers of frontal RCS of different planes:

B-52 100m2
F-4: 25m2
F-15E, B1B: 10m2
Nonstealth Fighters (MiG-21,23,29, F-16A, Mirage 2000) : 3-5m2
F-16C 1.2m2
Gripen: 1m2?
Typhoon: 0.1m2
Rafale: 0.05m2
F-35: 0.005 and 0.01 m2 (US/UK and export variants, respectively)
F-22, F-117, B-2: 0.001-0.005 m2

Notes:
- The RCS reduction for F-16 is achieved by measures that can be applied to other aircrafts, like plating the compressor blades with RAM, etc.
-I could not find any numerical value for the Gripen, I simply assume it is around the same as the F-16C, slightly smaller as the plane is newer design with more composites;
- The Typhoon and Rafale has roughly the same RCS, that of the latter is a bit smaller. I could find larger values like 0.75 m2 for these planes, but I'd assumed the smaller ones correct (being an EU citizen myself ), the 0.75 m2 correspondin to planes equipped with different missiles;
- This also means that Typhoon and Rafale with roughly equal radars can see an F-16 and fire at it first;
- The big deal with the F-35, IMHO is the internal weapons bay. The despising reports on the EU planes by the US and international press as lacking "stealth" (and so not much better than the F-16 Block 50/60+) are far from the truth.

Now where the LCA could be? It is better than the F-16C. The extensive use of composites helps a lot, besides that you cannot see the compressor from the front. Assuming stealth technology & design around the level of the Eurocanards, and a plane half the size, you would get a nice value. Reducing RCS even more won't be too effective because of the external weapons load (RCS for missiles in the range of 0.001-0.1m2).

I think the values are too high. These could be for side view. Plese check from the source again. I presume that this is for "clean condition" i.e. without any under wing or under fuselage stores

Regards
Kersi

[JaiS]

Northrop Grumman Delivers Enhanced Radar for F/A-22 Raptor

BALTIMORE --- Northrop Grumman Corporation has delivered a next-generation variant of the active electronically scanned array (AESA) fire-control radar for the U.S. Air Force's F/A-22 Raptor air dominance fighter. The new radar will undergo aircraft integration testing this summer at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif.

Designated AN/APG-77(V)1, the radar variant will enable air-to-ground capability provided by a new software suite that is being developed under a separate modernization program. The company has captured advances made in AESA design for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter and the Block 60 F-16 aircraft and incorporated them back into the APG-77. In addition, the (V)1 is more affordable than the current version, in part because the production line relies on a greater degree of automation.

“The (V)1's first flight on an F/A-22 will mark a key milestone for the combined Air Force/industry team,” said John C. Johnson, vice president of Combat Avionic Systems at Northrop Grumman. “It paves the way for the integration of the new software suite, which will allow Raptor pilots to perform electronic warfare missions as well as attack fixed and moving targets on the ground in all-weather, day/night conditions.”

Johnson added that software development for the radar continues on schedule, with over a year of integration work completed both in the laboratory and on flying testbed aircraft.

[Paul_M]

hello,

I have read an article wrote by piotr butowski(pibu) in a french aerospace

magazine, he has written that the n011m bars will be replaced by the

IBRIS in 2007,is it an AESA radar devloped by tikhomirov ?

[JCage]

No, its a Bars with a lighter antenna and more powerful servomotors, so that the antenna can have greater "look angles", in elevation and azimuth.

[RanjanRoy]

Defense news 05/30/05

JSF-Raptor Radar Can Fry Enemy Sensors
By MICHAEL FABEY

The radar mounted on the F/A-22 Raptor and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) can be used to fry electronic parts of ground-based radars and disable airborne cruise missiles, program officials for the planes acknowledge.

U.S. Air Force officials and contractors have longed bragged about the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, citing its ability to track multiple targets, map terrain and protect planes from attack. And there have been hints of offensive capability, like a brief mention of “high power electronic attack” on one of the JSF’s glossy marketing brochures.

But contractors say they have not publicly talked about the capability — until now.

“It could cause actual physical damage to a system … providing it’s on the X-band,” a common frequency for military radars, said Wayne Wilson, the director of fighter business development for Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems.

The radars — the AN/APG-77 for the Raptor and the more advanced AN/APG-81 intended for the JSF — emit electromagnetic emissions that could be used to damage or disrupt guidance components in cruise missiles, Wilson said. Other sources said the radar also can help deflect air-to-air missiles. ... ... . . . .

.... . . . They say the Air Force could fly a “wall” of Raptors or JSFs through an area to knock out enemy radars, sweeping a battle zone clean of many threats to aircraft and ground forces.

... . . . . The revelation comes as Air Force officials work to convince Pentagon officials to allow them to buy more of the stealthy, supersonic Raptors. Service officials want more than 400 of the jets, but Pentagon officials decided to cap the program at about 180.

.... .. . . .Northrop’s AESA radar was originally designed for the Raptor, then tweaked for the JSF. Now company engineers have created a new version of the Raptor’s AN/APG-77 by adapting design elements of the JSF’s AN/APG-81 and the AN/APG-80, which flies aboard Lockheed Martin F-16 Block 60 fighters. The new variant is intended to cost less to produce and maintain. “We’re taking the improvements we’re making on the Joint Strike Fighter and pushing them back on the Raptor,” Wilson said.

... . . . Northrop Grumman produces the Raptor’s radar under contract to Boeing’s Integrated Defense Systems unit, which is integrating the avionics for the F/A-22 program, led by Lockheed Martin Aeronautics. Raytheon Systems of McKinney, Texas, is a joint-venture partner on the radar.

. . . . . The JSF radar passed a key milestone May 23 by detecting airborne targets at a Northrop Grumman laboratory. Two days later, Northrop Grumman delivered a new AESA radar version for the Raptor to give the plane better air-to-ground combat capability.

. . . . . The way the Raptor’s radar antenna is integrated physically and electromagnetically with the airframe helps provide a much larger transmission bandwidth for the radar, using less power, according to GlobalSecurity.org, a defense consultancy.

. .. . . . .The book “Advanced Tactical Fighter to F-22 Raptor: Origins of the 21st Century Air Dominance Fighter” called the radar improvements “dramatic,” especially in areas of performance, reliability and versatility. Written by a trio of authors including Albert Piccirillo, the Air Force’s advanced tactical fighter program manager from 1983 to 1987, the book said the active array capability would “undoubtedly lead to a variety of novel operations and quantum enhancements in electronic countermeasures.”

... .. . . . . A different AESA radar will fly aboard the newest batches of the U.S. Navy’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet fighters, which are being fitted with the AN/APG-79 developed by Raytheon Space and Airborne Systems, El Segundo, Calif.

[Dileep]

JSF-Raptor Radar Can Fry Enemy Sensors

I would imagine fry would be exaggeration. Would it be possible to focus so much energy into a receiver from a flying ac to cause physical damage? Aren't the input stages protected against diplexer failures?

[John]

No, its a Bars with a lighter antenna and more powerful servomotors, so that the antenna can have greater "look angles", in elevation and azimuth.

will bars-29 have some of those features or will MKI's bars be replaced by ibris in the near future?

[rajivg]

Good marketing by JSF folks. I could see the JSF and F-22 saturating a radar receiver and getting jammed, but actual "frying" seems to be misleading.

[RanjanRoy]

E-10 Radar Secretly Designed To Jam Missiles
Aviation Week & Space Technology 05/30/2005,

David A. Fulghum
Washington

MP-RTIP radar, built for the E-10 aircraft, has been secretly designed to jam cruise missile electronics

SEE IT, JAM IT, KILL IT

The technological walls separating radar, electronic warfare and missile defense are coming down.

This fundamental shift has resulted in development, not yet publicly acknowledged, of multifunction, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars that can locate stealthy airborne targets and then jam their computers and guidance systems with at least enough effect to drive them off course by using a focused beam of X-band radar energy.

This weapons capability--against cruise and air-to-air missiles--is one of the closely held effects that are to be produced by the Northrop Grumman/Raytheon Multi-Platform Radar Technology Insertion Program (MP-RTIP) now under development for use on the E-10 airborne surveillance aircraft.

The technology roughly parallels the emerging development of ground-based high-power microwave (HPM) devices as anti-missile systems. In fact, the first such HPM weapon, under development by Raytheon, looks much like a large AESA radar. Analysts contend that it should produce broadband pulses of microwave energy that can jam electrical components at ranges of perhaps 100 mi. and destroy electrical components at tens of miles. .... ...

... .. BOTH THE GROUND-BASED HPM weapon and the MP-RTIP radar operate in the X-band frequency because small X-band transmitter/receiver modules are now relatively cheap. They are being built in large quantities for a variety of radars, including those on all the new-generation U.S. strike aircraft. ... ..

... .. . . HPM weapons tend to use a broader band frequency pulse, usually in the 2-12-GHz. range. MP-RTIP is more precisely focused in the 8-10-GHz. band. Both have a weapons effect. A large, ground-based HPM device will have a greater destructive effect at long range because of large antenna size and greater power output. The airborne AESA will have the ability to jam (but not damage) electronic devices at long ranges because its beam is more narrowly focused for its primary job of precision targeting. .. .. . . .

THESE EMERGING capabilities lend weight to the opinion of some aerospace industry planners that high-power microwave and radio-frequency devices will quickly pass lasers as the directed-energy weapons to first see operational use in combat for the key missions of missile defense, airliner protection and urban combat.

... . . The E-10, when completed, is to be capable of engaging airborne targets as a function of its Airborne Moving Target Indicator (AMTI) mode. The U.S. Air Force has acknowledged that the E-10 is to be a crucial node in cruise missile defense. But, attention has been focused only on the radar's projected capability to locate and target small and stealthy objects like cruise missiles.

There have been clues to the AESA's weapons-like capability, however. A handful of F-15Cs flying from Elmendorf AFB, Alaska, had been modified with the APG-63(V)2 AESA. The new radar, made of up of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of transmitter/receiver modules, can scan for targets, keep a continuous track of dozens of them, guide missiles and communicate. Perhaps most interestingly, all the power of the radar's TR modules can be focused to jam enemy radars in a narrow frequency band. The AESA-like capability also is being installed on the Navy's F/A-18E/F Super Hornets and USAF's F/A-22 Raptors and F-35 Joint Strike Fighters (AW&ST Oct. 18, 2004, p. 58; Oct. 4, p. 49).

"You don't need to burn out the electronics to make a missile go off course," says the Pentagon radar specialist. A large pulse of energy can affect the sensor's infrared focal plane array or the processors that help guide the missile and identify its targets. ... . . .

. . . "If you had a billboard-size aperture and the necessary electricity [from a city's electrical grid] for 25-35 dB. of gain, you could concentrate the power from an X-band [HPM device] into 1 degree and jam missiles at ranges out to perhaps 100 mi.," he says. "If the missile's electronics package had no protection, you could get in there and destroy the circuitry of a missile." Other radar researchers and missile-threat specialists say such a system would have to damage or disrupt missile systems at "at least tens of miles" to be useful against shoulder-fired anti-aircraft weapons..... ...

. . . .The E-10, with its 4 X 21-ft. radar aperture, has been designed to jam cruise missile guidance at a tactically useful distance. While at least one radar specialist concedes that the radar's power probably could be focused enough to damage electronic components of enemy missiles, such action would be a "serious misuse of an excellent radar's capabilities," he says.

Directed-energy weapons specialists are cautious when predicting the appearance of offensive HPM weapons on tactical size aircraft or UAVs. To use the power shaft available on the Joint Strike Fighter--for example, to energize a directed-energy weapon--is still about 15 years away. However, senior Pentagon officials have suggested that some smaller or one-shot air-launched HPM weapons could begin appearing in 2-4 years if there's adequate funding (AW&ST July 26, 2004)

[JaiS]

New EL/M-2083 Phased Array Air Defense Radar to Be Fielded on Israel Air Force's Extended Air Defense System

The new EL/M-2083 phased array radar, developed and manufactured by Israel Aircraft Industries' Elta Systems Group (IAI/Elta), has been incorporated into the Israel Air Force's Extended Air Defense Aerostat system.

EL/M-2083 is an early warning and control phased array radar designed to detect hostile approaching aircraft from long ranges, especially when they approach at low altitudes. Data gathered by the radar is transmitted to a central air defense command & control center where it is used to maintain an extended comprehensive air situation picture.

Once a potential threat has been detected the onboard system alerts responders in a timely manner.

New Compact Airborne Early Warning & Control System Developed By IAI's Elta Systems Group

A new compact airborne early warning & control (CAEW&C) system installed on Gulfstream's G-550 business jet has been developed by Israel Aircraft Industries' Elta Systems Group (IAI /Elta). A G-550 CAEW&C aircraft has been ordered by the Israel Air Force.

The aircraft utilizes technologies Elta successfully developed for other airborne early warning (AEW) aircraft. The business jet configuration provides a low-cost option while offering the full range of systems of larger AEW aircraft.

Elta's CAEW&C systems include phased array radar, phased array IFF (Identification of Friend or Foe), Signal Intelligence (SIGINT) and a Communication system. The communication system includes also a data link and a Satellite Communication (SATCOM) system for secure high-speed links to ground stations.

A unique fusion technique cross-correlates data from all the CAEW&C sensors, allowing the aircraft to automatically search for specific targets. Data and reports can be integrated in a network centric system.

[JaiS]

X-Posting Harry's post

Radar computers of the Bars MKI.

Note, Radar Computers ( 1 and 2 ) ' s purpose :

" To enhance Radar Tracking Capability to 8 targets ".

[rakall]

http://www.drdo.com/pub/nl/may05/patent ... proceeded?

[rakall]

http://www.drdo.com/pub/nl/may05/patents.htm


PATENTS GRANTED


LRDE, Bangalore

• Transmit/Receiver Module for Active Phased Array Antenna.


anybody has more info in this regard??
How far has the AESA antenna development proceeded?

[Paul_M]

JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - FEBRUARY 02, 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Russia reveals lightweight version of NO11M Bars radar
Piotr Butowski JDW Correspondent
Gdansk

Russian radar design bureau Tikhomirov NIIP will present for the first time a lightweight version of its N011M Bars radar at Aero India 2005 in Bangalore, 9-13 February.

The mock-up, designated Bars-29, is being marketed for new versions of the MiG-29 multirole fighter aircraft.

Bars-29, with electronic scanning, is designed for MiG-29M2 (multi-role combat aircraft, MRCA), which are being offered for India's requirement for 126 lightweight multirole fighters, as well as for mid-life upgrades of about 50 MiG-29s currently in service with the Indian Air Force (IAF). NIIP officials said that the Bars-29 radar "has all possible interfaces" and can be installed on other fighters including the Dassault Aviation Mirage 2000, which is also taking part in the tender.

During initial negotiations, India requested that the MiG-29's radar be compatible with the N011M Bars radar installed in the larger Su-30MKI fighter aircraft it already has in service.

The IAF has 32 Su-30MKIs and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd is launching licensed production. This compatibility would reduce operation cost due to standardisation of ground testing and training facilities, crew flight training, radar servicing, and delivery of spare parts.

Tamerlan Bekirbayev, chief designer of the Bars radar, told JDW that two variants of Bars-29 are being considered. The first will retain most of the components of N011M Bars. The new antenna has a 60 cm diameter and weighs 50kg -60 kg, about half the weight of the original, which has a 96 cm diameter.

Two other new subassemblies of the Bars-29 will be a super high-frequency receiver and driving oscillator made using the same technology as N011M Bars. The overall weight of the Bars-29 radar will be 350 kg-400 kg, about 100 kg less than the N011M Bars.

Other more ambitious variants of the Bars-29 radar will have new equipment modules made with more recent technology; in this case, the radar weight may be reduced to 250 kg-300 kg.

Bekirbayev said that Bars-29 could be ready within three years.

"We will take maximum advantage of operational algorithms and software that has already been made for Bars. This is the most time consuming part of work on [a] new radar," he said. Some 90 per cent of Bars-29's software will be copied from Bars.

Until recently, RSK MiG Corporation developed new versions of the MiG-29 fitted with slotted-array Zhuk-ME radar, an export variant of the Zhuk-M, made by NIIP's competitors, the Phazotron-NIIR design bureau. The Zhuk-ME is fitted to prototypes of MiG-29M2 MRCA and MiG-29K fighters as well as to the MiG-29SMT manufactured for Yemen and Eritrea.

On 20 January 2004, India bought the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier from Russia and ordered 16 MiG-29K/KUB shipborne fighters, with an option for 30 more to be delivered in 2007-08. According to the contract, the MiG-29K will be equipped with Zhuk-ME radars and there are no plans for installing Bars-29 on these aircraft

[Dileep]

Not sure if this is the right place for this.

The question is, I am sure it would not be difficult to jam GPS signals. But won't it be possible to spoof them so that a carefully used multi transmitter spoofer can throw the whole system haywire at a specific location?

Also, I was wondering if it is possible to create a localized GPS like locator system using a few GSO sats, like adding a couple of transmitters to INSATS? That can have a lot of anti-jamming and can be spoof proof.

[John]

can someone explain what the term Metric wave radar means exactly? just saw documentary in history channel on WWII was mentioned a lot.

[Cain Marko]

JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - FEBRUARY 02, 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Russia reveals lightweight version of NO11M Bars radar
Piotr Butowski JDW Correspondent
Gdansk

Russian radar design bureau Tikhomirov NIIP will present for the first time a lightweight version of its N011M Bars radar at Aero India 2005 in Bangalore, 9-13 February.

The mock-up, designated Bars-29, is being marketed for new versions of the MiG-29 multirole fighter aircraft.

Bars-29, with electronic scanning, is designed for MiG-29M2 (multi-role combat aircraft, MRCA), which are being offered for India's requirement for 126 lightweight multirole fighters, as well as for mid-life upgrades of about 50 MiG-29s currently in service with the Indian Air Force (IAF). NIIP officials said that the Bars-29 radar "has all possible interfaces" and can be installed on other fighters including the Dassault Aviation Mirage 2000, which is also taking part in the tender.

During initial negotiations, India requested that the MiG-29's radar be compatible with the N011M Bars radar installed in the larger Su-30MKI fighter aircraft it already has in service.

The IAF has 32 Su-30MKIs and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd is launching licensed production. This compatibility would reduce operation cost due to standardisation of ground testing and training facilities, crew flight training, radar servicing, and delivery of spare parts.

Tamerlan Bekirbayev, chief designer of the Bars radar, told JDW that two variants of Bars-29 are being considered. The first will retain most of the components of N011M Bars. The new antenna has a 60 cm diameter and weighs 50kg -60 kg, about half the weight of the original, which has a 96 cm diameter.

Two other new subassemblies of the Bars-29 will be a super high-frequency receiver and driving oscillator made using the same technology as N011M Bars. The overall weight of the Bars-29 radar will be 350 kg-400 kg, about 100 kg less than the N011M Bars.

Other more ambitious variants of the Bars-29 radar will have new equipment modules made with more recent technology; in this case, the radar weight may be reduced to 250 kg-300 kg.

Bekirbayev said that Bars-29 could be ready within three years.

"We will take maximum advantage of operational algorithms and software that has already been made for Bars. This is the most time consuming part of work on [a] new radar," he said. Some 90 per cent of Bars-29's software will be copied from Bars.

Until recently, RSK MiG Corporation developed new versions of the MiG-29 fitted with slotted-array Zhuk-ME radar, an export variant of the Zhuk-M, made by NIIP's competitors, the Phazotron-NIIR design bureau. The Zhuk-ME is fitted to prototypes of MiG-29M2 MRCA and MiG-29K fighters as well as to the MiG-29SMT manufactured for Yemen and Eritrea.

On 20 January 2004, India bought the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier from Russia and ordered 16 MiG-29K/KUB shipborne fighters, with an option for 30 more to be delivered in 2007-08. According to the contract, the MiG-29K will be equipped with Zhuk-ME radars and there are no plans for installing Bars-29 on these aircraft

Hi,

Yes while the Bars 29 sounds good, in 3 years the EL 2052 might be a better choice for all the Medium range fighters. It might be amazing if they could buy 126 Mirage 2000 ds (instead of the expensive 5/9s) with uprated engines of course and plug them with the EL 2052 AESAs alongwith ECM equipmnt similar to the Su 30MKI. Shoot, it would be one awesome airforce to have all mirages + mig29s upgraded with the EL 2052.

[dinesha]

On the radar: Russian firm’s JV with Alpha Design
RUPALI MUKHERJEE
Posted online: Thursday, June 30, 2005 at 0000 hours IST

NEW DELHI, JUNE 29: Phazotron Corp of Russia has proposed to set up a joint venture with Alpha Design Technologies for providing repair and maintenance support to KOPYO radars fitted on fighter aircraft in India. The Russian company plans to pick up 26% equity in Alpha-Phazotron Radar Equipment and Systems Pvt Ltd. The balance stake 74% will be held by the domestic company.

Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), Bangalore, which has been involved with the Russian company for manufacture of fighter aircraft, has submitted the no-objection certificate (NOC) to the government, sources said. The company’s total equity capital is Rs 264 lakh, with Alpha Design Technologies Pvt Ltd’s equity amounting to Rs 195.36 lakh, while the foreign collaborator’s share at Rs 68.64 lakh. The company has proposed to undertake repair and maintenance of KOPYO and other types of radars of Phazotron fitted on different aircraft types by establishing suitable repair, testing and maintenance facilities for module level and components level repair.

Also, it plans to carry out comprehensive testing of radars before and after repairs; to carry out installation, maintenance, warranty support and annual maintenance contracts (AMCs) for the repairs of radars fitted on aircraft. It will also be involved in upgradation, manufacture, assembly and testing of upgradation kits for the radars and to provide suitable feedback to the OEMs and customers. The company will also develop suitable replacements for obsolescent components and sub-assemblies and to provide technical support and consultancy in the field of radar technology. Government policy allows foreign direct investment (including NRI investment) in defence and strategic industries, up to 26%, subject to licensing and security requirements. The proposal relates to repair and maintenance of radars of Phazatron fitted in various aircraft types.

A decision on the Russian company’s proposal was deferred last month, as ministry of defence had sought more information from the domestic company as well as the foreign collaborator. It is not known at present whether it has been cleared.

http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full ... t_id=95184

[Sumair]

Can anyone answer as to how many units of GreenPine redar we actually have?

[Singha]

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/ ... Arrow.html

per link above we have two.

[dinesha]

http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanheral ... 200574.asp

Varadarajan takes over as LRDE Director
Bangalore: UNI
Mr S Varadarajan, an expert in Radar Systems Engineering and Radar Data Processing, has assumed charge as Director of Electronics and Radar Development Establishment (LRDE), a premier Radar Development Laboratory of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), Ministry of Defence.

Mr Varadarajan, alumni of Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, with ME in Electrical Communication Engineering, has 25 years of experience in the field.

He was engaged in the development of Indra class of Radars and Battle Field Surveillance Radar presently used by the Indian Armed Forces. Mr Varadarajan has bagged many awards, including DRDO Scientist of the Year Award, Agni Award for excellence in self-reliance for his outstanding contribution to these two radars

[NitinS]

http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/jul/12co.htm

French co offers missile detecting radars

A K Dhar in Paris | July 12, 2005 11:24 IST


French defence major, Thales has offered an across the board technology transfer to India in state-of-art radar know-how to help New Delhi move speedily towards bridging the gaps in its air space coverage, specially in detecting low flying intrusions.

Undeterred by the recent US efforts at political level to muscle into the lucrative Indian market, Thales with an almost 50 year presence in India has set up an Indian subsidiary and is also offering to set up joint ventures in the country.

Jean Paul Perrier, Chief Executive of the 13 billion Euro multi-European company, Thales said his company was now offering to India its latest three dimension Herakles multi-function radars for the Indian Navy's latest range of lethal indigenous P15 and P17 type frigates.

"The radars have the capability to detect incoming missiles, aircraft, helicopters, low-flying Unmanned Aerial Vehicles as well as guided missiles and other weapons to deal with these threats," Perrier told visiting Indian newsmen as the company unveiled the latest range of radars at its Lnemore facility in Paris' suburbs.

The Herakles MFR-30 can perform in any weather conditions and have back scanning capability enabling it to release missiles to intercept incoming missiles threats, a capability which Indian armed forces lack so far.

Though US efforts at political level have caused some ripples in the French Defence industry, which is India's third largest arms trading partner, Perrier told PTI that Thales was not unduly worried over the American onslaught.

"French companies will not shy away from competition. All we want is a level playing field to let our weapons platform and systems speak for themselves," he said.

Apparently brave words from a chief executive whose company recently had to face the unheard of re-tendering in the project to supply low-level transportable radars to India on full technology transfer, that too after completing price negotiations and the approval of the deal by the Indian Defence Ministry under the Vajpayee regime.

Perrier said the Thales offer included giving rights to Bharat Electronics to sell the radars in third countries.

"We were pitted against the Israelis, who could not match our systems and we are confident that we can outmatch any new bidders" Perrier said.

India was to procure 19 LLTR's under the deal with the rest to be manufactured by BEL under full technology transfer.

Though there is no official word from the Defence Ministry, high-level defence officials said the Israeli bid was rejected as it did not meet Indian qualitative standards.

[Paul Mead]

n India Kopyo-21I radar is well known. It is installed on MiG-21 Bis UPG aircraft. Tactical characteristics of this radar, validated in flight trials, allow to relate this station to generation 4 + and to ascertain as follows: Kopyo-21I radar meets all the requirements to radars for advanced light multifunctional aircraft. It is obvious that installation of this radar considerably enhances aircraft combat capabilities and efficiency of MIG-21 Bis UPG aircraft as a whole.

Kopyo-21I is the first radar in a number of unified radars: Kopyo-M, Kopyo-25 and Kopyo-A, designed on a new element basis.

Phazotron has developed Kopyo-25, a podded version of Kopyo-21I. It has undergone flight tests on Su-39 aircraft. The container version of the radar allows to equip the aircraft, which was not equipped with the radar earlier, with an advanced radar without essential adaptations of an aircraft. It expands tactical capabilities of an air complex. Kopyo-25 may be offered for HAL produced MiG-27L upgrade.
Kopyo-М is similar to Kopyo-21I, however due to transition to a new element base and new signal processor, it has 25 % increase in range of air target detection, Time of a radar map generation in synthesized aperture mapping mode has become twice as less. The radar is much more reliable, has smaller weight and overall dimensions. Its characteristics allow considering Kopyo-М as the radar for further modernization of MiG-21 Bis aircraft or similar class of aircraft. It is expedient to consider jointly with the Indian experts the feasibility of fitting this radar on IAF light aircraft like LCA. At present Kopyo-М undergoes flight test.

http://www.aeroindiaseminar.com/Kanashchenko.htm

[Marcos]

Some numbers of frontal RCS of different planes:

B-52 100m2
F-4: 25m2
F-15E, B1B: 10m2
Nonstealth Fighters (MiG-21,23,29, F-16A, Mirage 2000) : 3-5m2
F-16C 1.2m2
Gripen: 1m2?
Typhoon: 0.1m2
Rafale: 0.05m2
F-35: 0.005 and 0.01 m2 (US/UK and export variants, respectively)
F-22, F-117, B-2: 0.001-0.005 m2

Notes:

- The RCS reduction for F-16 is achieved by measures that can be applied to other aircrafts, like plating the compressor blades with RAM, etc.
-I could not find any numerical value for the Gripen, I simply assume it is around the same as the F-16C, slightly smaller as the plane is newer design with more composites;

I wonder h come F-16C have got such a lower value than the F-16A, and that too only based on the plating the compressor blades. I don see much difference in the intake and the F-16s have always had that good 'mouth' to suck in air w/o showing much of its 'teeth'. I think that the lower RCS is rather achieved by applying RAM and some by work of PR guys.

- The Typhoon and Rafale has roughly the same RCS, that of the latter is a bit smaller. I could find larger values like 0.75 m2 for these planes, but I'd assumed the smaller ones correct (being an EU citizen myself ), the 0.75 m2 correspondin to planes equipped with different missiles;
- This also means that Typhoon and Rafale with roughly equal radars can see an F-16 and fire at it first;
- The big deal with the F-35, IMHO is the internal weapons bay. The despising reports on the EU planes by the US and international press as lacking "stealth" (and so not much better than the F-16 Block 50/60+) are far from the truth.

well I wud agree with the case of Rafale as from its profile itself its most likely that the comp blades wont see the light or much light, but I highly suspect that is the case with the Typhoon. It has got 2 big, ugly & blad intakes through which i suppose it wud be able to see the blades.

So no way i think that EF has got a lower RCS value than the Rafales, if ever there is any, I suspect it wud be the handiwork of the Typhoon mafia who also had with them the remains of the four-and-a-half Flankers which the Typhoon had chewed and spitted out. After all, the only 'new' design that have got a REAL BIG AXE over its neck is EF-2000 & not Rafale as what the EF mafia & their Amrikkan counterparts want all to believe. If all the members in the EF are (with the Brits leading) going in for the F-35, I wonder h come any one cud see a future for the EF, let alone a brighter. But more dumbness wud be from anyone out side the EF project who wud even consider buying the Typhoon.

BTW, I think the only way to get the correct figures for the RCS value of the F-16, F-15, Rafale wud be get it directly from the IAF & IN. Have anyone got any figures from the services ??..... after all they (IN) wud pretty much be knowing the almost exact value of the Rafales. So get them and reduce a bit from that value for the EF. The RCS figures for F-16A/C & F-15 definetely can be readily got from the IAF, if am not wrong and if at all IAF is willing to do that favor of sharing RCS data ...... so anyone ready to do that job of collecting datas?

No, its a Bars with a lighter antenna and more powerful servomotors, so that the antenna can have greater "look angles", in elevation and azimuth.

Now these were the quotes from FORCE, and that doesn't combine the Irbis to the new gimbals, but rather says it that the Bars wud be enhanced in the future with higher scan angles with the use of new gimbals. And another part mentions that the new built MKI thats to roll-out from HAL by 2010 wud be equipped with a new aesa radar called Irbis (snow leopard) which is being developed jointly by LRDE and Tikhomirov NIIP. I don understand if its that hard to understand that, or is it that its not true?

By 2007 the NO-11M's observation angle will be increased to +/-100 degrees in azimuth and elevation by using new gimbals for the moving antenna, while its detection range will be increased to 180km by incorporating a new transmit/receive computer. Additionally, new mission software now being developed will add a new Doppler-sharpening mode for real-beam terrain mapping and for engaging moving ground targets.

By 2010, when the first totally-built Su-30MKI will roll out from state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd's production facility in Nasik , it will be equipped with new, active phased-array airborne radar. Called the Irbis (snow leopard), it will replace the NO-11M. Both the LRDE and Tikhomirov NIIP are co-developing the Irbis at a cost of US$160 million.

Now thats good news indeed but also a bit late awakening coz of the dumbness & faith of the planners (& i'd only attribute that to the BJP & JFR). And really pitty that it took so long for India to wake up to join the Russian's in developing the AESA even though the establishment was not ignorant abt the fact that Russians have been in the business for long ....

This must also raise questions within u guys as to Y India did not go in for a joint development like this with the A-50 and went staright for the Phalson first of which is 2 -3 more yrs away, where as if it was the A-50E, IAF wud have had an eye now .....

Basics being ---- WALK before u TRY to RUN!

[Marcos]

BTW, don u guys think, Zhuk-MFE is much better than the Bars-29?

Zhuk-MFE

Operation Modes:

Air-To-Air

- Target detection and measurement of ranges to targets flying above the aircraft or against the land (sea-surface) background within a radar scan zone
- Single target track
- Simultaneous track of upto 30 targets within a scan zone in the track-while-scan mode and support to simultaneous attacks against upto 8 targets ("dangerous targets" or targets selected by the polit)
- Support to close maneuvering combats (submodes: Vertical, HUD field-of-view, Helmet (sighting), Boresight, Slewable)
- Detection of helicopters, including the hovering ones, and attacks against them
- Recognition of classes of targets and number of targets.

Air-To-Surface

- Real beam mapping, Doppler beam sharpening mapping, focused synthetic apperture mapping
- Scale expansion and map freezing
- Simultaneous track of 2 ground targets
- Sea-Surface search
- Detection of ground and sea-surface moving targets, track of them
- Air-To ground ranging
- Carrier velocity measurement
- Information support to low altitude flights

Performance:

Frequency range ------------------------------------------------------------- X
Number of main frequencies -------------------------------------------------- 16
Antenna
- diameter (mm) ------------------------------------------------------------ 700
Angle movements:
- in azimuth/in elevation (deg) --------------------------------------- ± 70 / ± 70
Noise factor (dB) ------------------------------------------------------------- 3
Power:
- peak power (kW) ----------------------------------------------------------- 6
- average power (kW) ------------------------------------------------------ 1.5

Targets detection range in air-to-air modes (km):
Look-up:
- head-on aspect ------------------------------------------------------------ 200
- tail-on aspect --------------------------------------------------------------- 80
Look-down:
- head-on aspect ------------------------------------------------------------ 200
- tail-on aspect --------------------------------------------------------------- 75

Ranges of ground and sea-target detection (km):
6* = 1000m2 ---------------------------------------------------------- up to 300
6* = 300m2 ----------------------------------------------------------- up to 150
Azimuth and range resoultion (m)
- low resolution (R=80 km) -------------------------------------------- 300 x 300
- medium resolution (R=60 km) ------------------------------------------ 30 x 30
- high resolution (R=20 km) ------------------------------------------------- 1 x 1

Parameters:

Mass (kg) -------------------------------------------------------------------- 285
Input power
- AC (kVA) ------------------------------------------------------------------ 12
- DC (kW) ------------------------------------------------------------------- 1.5
Cooling -------------------------------------------------------------- air and liquid
MTBF (h) -------------------------------------------------------------------- 900

Targeting data for the Kh-31A, Kh-35 air-to-surface missiles
Data on targeting, target illumination and missile correction for the R-27R1 (R1E), RVV-AE, R-73E and R-27T (TE) air-to-air missiles

* that was the closest that I cud get to the represent the 'sigma' ..... so, plz do excuse that '6' for the RCS .....

X posting from Keyfora

Zhuk-MFE
Zhuk-MFE Spec
another image of Zhuk-MFE from Igorr

[riley]

Link to an artcle about latest radar for the Next Generation US fighters
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/article ... 2926.shtml

[Marcos]

k X-posting Pits post from keyfora abt the Russian radar

Tests will begin with the Zhuk-MF radar in a MiG-29SMT prototype in Russia: Completes preparation MiG-29SMT for the tests by onboard RLS "Zhuk-MFE"

Completes preparation for the flight tests of experimental destroyer MiG-29SMT with the modified airborne radar (BRLS)"Zhuk-MFE" with the phased antenna array (FAR). On this reported the chief designer of corporation "NIIR" Yuri Gus'kov. "on the fighter is already established new BRLS, is carry ouied its" tying ", completes tuning onboard equipment", it said Yu.Gus'kov. According to him, BRLS the "Zhuk-MFE" is modification BRLS "Zhuk-M" with the phased antenna array in the export performance. "the beginning of flight tests is planned to the first quarter of the present year. Tests will be carry ouied at the flying laboratory MiG-29SMT 47-10 ", explained source. In the opinion of developers, the distinctive special feature of radar the "Zhuk-MFE" is that that it has very large scale it is angular the electronic beam deflection among the domestic radars of analogous class, it lack false diffraction lobes in entire range it is angular circulation. New radar is characterized by the very high reliability (not less than 200 it is hour work to the refusal). On the criterion "effectiveness- cost" to it today there are no equal, source said.

Interfax

Date unknown but late April 2005

and this ...

Phased-array radar to be fitted to MiG-29 'Fulcrum' fighter

Piotr Butowski

The radar design bureau Phazotron-NIIR (Moscow, Russia) has announced that it will be installing its experimental Zhuk-MFE passive phased-array fighter radar on a MiG-29 'Fulcrum' fighter by the end of this year (2004), working in partnership with Russian Aircraft Corporation (RSK) MiG. This is to be followed by the installation of its first active phased-array radar (active electronically scanned array, AESA) on a MiG-29 during the course of next year (2005), Phazotron said. This AESA radar is being developed for a next-generation RSK MiG lightweight fighter, while it could also be applied to upgraded versions of the MiG-29. The aircraft now being fitted with the Zhuk-MFE is known as number 47-10, the prototype of the modernised MiG-29SMT that up to now was equipped with the slotted-array antenna Zhuk-ME radar.

The Zhuk-ME is the export variant of the basic Zhuk-M radar system, developed for the modernised MiG-29SMT, which has by now been tested for several years. The first deliveries of Zhuk-ME-equipped MiG-29SMTs will be to Yemen and will begin at the end of 2004. Phazotron has a range of Zhuk-family fighter radar systems, including the Zhuk-M series for MiG-29s (with an antenna diameter of 624 mm and maximum range of 120 km) and the Zhuk-MS series for the larger Sukhoi Su-27/Su-30 'Flanker' fighter types (with an antenna diameter of 980 mm and a maximum range of 180 km).

Both the Zhuk-MS and the passive phased-array Zhuk-MSF have been tested with Sukhoi's fighters, the former in 2002 on the prototype Su-35UB designed for China and the Zhuk-MSF or Sokol in 2003 on the prototype of the shipborne Su-27KUB. After initial tests, however, the work on the Su-27KUB/Zhuk-MSF combination has been stopped, the Sukhoi management apparently having no interest in developing this further. This, in part, was the catalyst for Phazotron to accelerate the construction of the Zhuk-MF (of which the MFE is the export variant), allowing tests with the MiG-29 to start as soon as possible.

Janes IDR Dec 04

Fair Use Notice

[JCage]

No, its a Bars with a lighter antenna and more powerful servomotors, so that the antenna can have greater "look angles", in elevation and azimuth.
Now these were the quotes from FORCE, and that doesn't combine the Irbis to the new gimbals, but rather says it that the Bars wud be enhanced in the future with higher scan angles with the use of new gimbals. And another part mentions that the new built MKI thats to roll-out from HAL by 2010 wud be equipped with a new aesa radar called Irbis (snow leopard) which is being developed jointly by LRDE and Tikhomirov NIIP. I don understand if its that hard to understand that, or is it that its not true?

Force are idiots and Irbis is PESA not AESA. The servomotors info comes from a variety of sources such as JED, Russian media and reports by PaulM, not Force, which copy pasted reports on BR. Gimballed antennas need servos to move them, esp if the antenna weighs 100 kg or thereabouts.

By 2007 the NO-11M's observation angle will be increased to +/-100 degrees in azimuth and elevation by using new gimbals for the moving antenna, while its detection range will be increased to 180km by incorporating a new transmit/receive computer. Additionally, new mission software now being developed will add a new Doppler-sharpening mode for real-beam terrain mapping and for engaging moving ground targets.

Copied from JED and Piotr Butowskis reports.

By 2010, when the first totally-built Su-30MKI will roll out from state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd's production facility in Nasik , it will be equipped with new, active phased-array airborne radar. Called the Irbis (snow leopard), it will replace the NO-11M. Both the LRDE and Tikhomirov NIIP are co-developing the Irbis at a cost of US$160 million.

One hopes Prasun Sengupta is speaking the truth, but knowing how he gets his data, he could be blowing sunshine out of his butt, as well. The saving grace is that he does appear to have some contacts with the Russians and has access to DRDO via trade shows.

The upgrade has been widely corroborated. What has not been clarified is the extent of LRDEs participation and that its a PESA not an AESA.

[maz]

Hi guys,

anyone have the specs for Zhuk-ME - the one that is to be fitted to the naval Mig-29K?

[Harry]

Hi guys,

anyone have the specs for Zhuk-ME - the one that is to be fitted to the naval Mig-29K?

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attach ... =744&stc=1

[Marcos]

Some questions for the radar experts over here.

Can anyone provide me with RCS figures of the same object (a/c) for the different frequencies of the radar? Also, as to the probablity of detection for the figures of the radar that various sources quotes. I pulled in this as there was some discussion regarding the same on keyfora .... am putting some quotes from there itself .... hope u guys provide more info on the same ...

The russians give radar detection range with 100 detection probability. That means that target must be detected in 100 % of casas.

The americans on the, other way, say, for instance, that APG-66 radar of F-16A has detection range of 30 miles for 5 m2 RCS, but with 85 % probability of detection.

We can not compare figures for radar ranges in west and russian literature. Simply because they use a different conditions.

In order to stretch radar ranges to the max, west manufacturers use 85 % or even less probability of detection. That means that detection ranges will be much higher.

On the other hand, russians use only 100 % pd for radar ranges. That means, detection range where target must be surely detected in a good weather.

The russian literature say that MiG-29 has about 80 to 100 km max range, and west figures say that F-18A has about 130 to 150 km max. radar range.

So, we have simingly strange statements of German pilots that Mig-29 has, in tests against western fighters, demonstrated much greater radar range that F-18 !!

In fact, this is only because of difference in used Probability of detection in open literature.

The average emitting power and antenna diameter are the best way to find radar range. And Mig-31 will be on top for meny years, especialy with Zaslon M with 360 km range against fighter type targets.

But do you know that RCS depends of radar frequency.
The flat plate of 10 x 10 cm, at right angle to the radar, have RCS of about 1 m2, for the 3cm working frequency.
The same plate, for 10 cm frequency, have RCS of about 1250 m2.

For frequency of 3 cm, RCS of F-4 or F-15 is 5 m2, for a dove is 0,01.

The RCS of 0,0001 which you mentioned, can not be calculated by that way.
We do not know how much radar return could be get from metal sphere of 12 mm diameter. It has to be measured. The RCS is not cross section area.

some replies for the above 'theory' abt the probablity of detection were these --

Harry, there is no such thing as a 100% chance of detection in radar. Radar manufacturers often quote "typical" ranges which are generally average not peak values, and the MiG-29 manual gives all radar range figures as upper and lower limits. Detection range will be usually somewhere between the two. Even then, in certain circumstances, the target may be detected closer or further away than quoted.

Is funny that you contine with this BS about radars with 100% "detection probabiity", man, give us a break please!...

but what i got to see was the below post made by the above poster, quoting some ex-phantom flyers. In his own words, "Some interesting details I found from ex-US Phantom flyers" ---

One source gives 153kW as PPeak for the APQ-100, 0.4-2.0 uS pulses, PRF
1060, 500 or 330, 3 x 3 deg. beam (F-4C). From the same source, the APG-59 is
credited with 1 kw, but that's Pavg, with a 44% duty cycle. Avg.
detection range on a 5m.^2 target is 60nm. I don't know if that's for a
50%, 90% or other % probability of detection (F-4J).

so hopefully waiting to hear more on these figures, mainly -
- RCS figures for different fighters for the different operating frequcney of different radars

- the case with our own Bars radar, but i guess, it must be for the lowest working frequcncy (3cm?) @ 100% pd.

Also, whats are the ranges for the highest operating frequency against different targets and if at all a target with 0.0001 sqm rcs really exists?

One thing i must note here is that, when mentioning abt the Flanker threat, i've seen many talk abt the Russian approach of fighting against lower RCS fighters (mostly the Raptor). It being that, their approach was to burn through the 'stealth advantage' with poweful radars ands track them, where as the Raptors game wud be to remain silent with the wingman sneaking-in to kill the Flanker who is focusing on his prey (in the case of an enviornment where AWACS is not available).

So cud the the 'burning through' mean, the full power emitting at the highest working frequency to detect the very low rcs fighters?

hope u guys will help me out .... tks in advance.

[Gerard]

New Japan BMD Radar Tracks Russian Missile Test

[Marcos]

A very good read on the AESA stuff ... but since its a western source, as usual, its biased against the Russians ....

Agile radar beams : Active electronically scanned arrays energize fighter performance

and some quotes from the same ...

Unlike a conventional mechanically steered array (MSA), the antenna array of T/R modules is fixed, with no moving parts. The radar can steer its agile beams electronically — at nearly the speed of light — and redirect them instantaneously from one target to another.

BTW, has the speed of light decresed a 'few' shades over last couple of decades ?? ...

Aircraft that use passive ESA radars include the U.S. Air Force’s B-1B bomber and E-8 Joint Surveillance Target Attack Radar System and the French Rafale fighter.

By Michael Peck and Glenn W. Goodman Jr.
May 09, 2005

and seems like these two (idiots?) have been sleeping for a few decades while the Zalson, Bars etc happened .... pathetically biased guys ...

France’s Dassault is in series production of carrier-based Rafale M and air force Rafale B/C variants for the French military. They carry the RBE2 passive electronically scanning array radar developed by Thales DETEXIS.

In 1993, a BAE Systems-Thales-EADS consortium began development of a new AESA radar to replace the Eurofighter’s ECR-90 and the Rafale’s RBE2. Called the Airborne Multi-mode Solid-state Active array Radar , it could be ready for fielding on Tranche 3 Eurofighters and Rafales around 2010.

but still no mention whatsoever of the PESA or the AESA from the Russian side .... more so the AESA radar for the MiG-29s which might get installed next year ....

[Igorr]

A very good read on the AESA stuff ... but since its a western source, as usual, its biased against the Russians ....

Agile radar beams : Active electronically scanned arrays energize fighter performance

- I think the main inconvenience of the article - is methodologics. It is not correct to compare AESA with MSA. The autors whould have compare AESA with PESA - thus the comparison will not be allweys so shining for AESA.

[sudipn]

A very good read on the AESA stuff ... but since its a western source, as usual, its biased against the Russians ....

Agile radar beams : Active electronically scanned arrays energize fighter performance

- I think the main inconvenience of the article - is methodologics. It is not correct to compare AESA with MSA. The autors whould have compare AESA with PESA - thus the comparison will not be allweys so shining for AESA.

Igorr,
As far as I have read the main problem with a russian AESA is its sheer size and weight. On a simplistic view, the way an AESA radar is assembled is by bringing together as many TR modules as possible ..the more the modules the better it is... now the problem with russian modules is its size, weight and power consumption... well in aviation i am pretty sure these things do make a lot of difference...
I would not like to strech this too much but i would say The MKI without the TV capability cannot carry a BARS radar...
please let me know if you have any new information about the fabrication of new T/R modules for AESA by ne russian labs

[sudipn]

This is a slightly lengthly but highly technical discussion on how cheap analogues of AESA radars are being developed...

People who are not interested can skip this post here

for people who know televison tech ... remember the HDTV using DLP chip ....a similar kinda chip is being contemplated...

ne was happy reading (quote changed to a URL taking Mr George's advice
http://www.darpa.mil/darpatech99/Presentations/scripts/spo/SPOSmithScript.txt

[Igorr]

The flight tests of flying laboratory Il-114LL will begin at the end of this year

Have Completed the preparation to beginning of the flight tests of flying laboratory Il-114LL, equipped with the special equipment of the development of St. Petersburg scientific and industrial enterprise "radar -MMS". "the flight tests of flying laboratory Il-114LL will begin at the end of this year. At present aircraft passes the stage of ground tests ", reported the source in the defense- industrial complex. According to him, "the flight test program is broken into several stages, which foresee tests and fixing not only of special equipment RESEARCH AND PRODUCTION ENTERPRISE" radar -MMS ", but also aircraft as carrier". Source noted that the aircraft Il-114 better than other contemporary machines is suitable for use as the platform, on which can be placed the machine complex of RESEARCH AND PRODUCTION ENTERPRISE "radar -MMS". It did not begin to refine what special equipment will specifically undergo testing at flying laboratory. "The work on the flying laboratory Il-114LL is conducted according to the line of Defense Ministry", said the source. Interfaks, 28.10.05

My commentary: Radar-MMS - is the main competitor of Leninets radar design buraue, that offer Il-38 and Tu-195 with upgraded "Sea Dragon" dea-searching system.

[Vick]

sudipn, could you give us a one word executive summary of that article you posted?

[Dileep]

Nitin(JCage), how is the MEMS technology situation in India? Is any work on RADAR use going on?

[George J]

SudipN should be banned from BRF too. He has contracted the extra long bug from Marcos. He could have easily given the URL to the link and posted the MOST relevant portions from it. Whats the difference between him and Marcos?

This is all that's needed.

Dileep,
There is a DAMN GOOD reason why JCage changed his name so whats the point in re-emphasising the change?

You need to be banned too.