Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Apr 2014 04:16

Taruvaata.

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 22 Apr 2014 04:18

Pandit channulal Mishra a stalwart Hindustani vocalist will propose Modi's name along with G. malaviya in Varanasi. Pt. Mishra said he is elated and honored that he was chosen to propose Modiji's name.

Below he is showing heavenly rendering of raga Hamsadhwani

Jai Shiv Shankar

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 22 Apr 2014 04:24

Vamsee wrote:ramana garu,

why such high profile raids? why not silently bump off Hafiz-e-suvvar and dawood Ibrahim?
Let them guess whether it is Yankees/Yahudis/Yindoos who is did it.

A simple contract of one additional Boeing plane is enough to get the job done

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 22 Apr 2014 04:45

http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/21/congr ... nst-india/

David Cohen administers another round of Jhapad on secular media and the US anti Modi gang.

Sidd · Post by **Sidd** » 22 Apr 2014 05:09

LokeshC wrote:That is the subliminal message to the west. Hitlers Swastika runs clockwise, the Indic one runs counter clockwise. They have taken the picture to make it resemble the Hitler one.

Modi is a dictator == Hitler, Mussolini, Saddam and hence the west's new enemy onleee.

That is a 10 year old edition when Sonia's boot licker was the editor of the magazine. Not that it has improved much even now.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 22 Apr 2014 05:12

^^^ Its becomes even more alarming for the same reason.

It means that from long back in the day the message they are portraying are Hindus == Nazis. Hindu Leader == Nazi Leader.

I was a pseudo-secular idiot back in 2004 and I would have read it without even pausing to think what was being portrayed.

KLP Dubey · Post by **KLP Dubey** » 22 Apr 2014 05:55

More vermin crawling out of the sewers of leftist ideologies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRpyINVzXsU

All these anti-nationals deserve a special treatment.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 22 Apr 2014 06:04

Indian anti-nationalists are slimy, they will change their colors and dance to the tune of the new govt until they get to some level that they can control on behalf of their handlers. The reason they are slimy is because being slimy is the ONLY way which they can earn money out of their handlers in the west, who have the only real control over them.

I am sure backroom planning is going in the handlers headquarters on how to infiltrate this "new state" in India which is unconnected to the deep-state that they had created. Again, this is another area that Shree Modi should keep vigil on. These vermin need to have their power and influence neutralized, ofcourse very quietly with zero violence.

After Nancy ma'am got 'rattled' by Modi (who might have expressed knowledge of undercover grave diggers) the handlers will be in a retreat and regroup mode. They will come back for sure, in a very different form. Remains to be seen how this game will unfold.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 22 Apr 2014 06:08

KLP Dubey wrote:More vermin crawling out of the sewers of leftist ideologies:

Link removed

All these anti-nationals deserve a special treatment.

Please remove the link. Clicking on the trash is to encourage the human garbage out to help this garbage

Raj · Post by **Raj** » 22 Apr 2014 06:14

Suraj wrote:
RamaY wrote:I did that with people who said, hindi me boliye...
But imagine if a Old City mother/Ayesha wanted to know why/how Modi is good, I would miss the opportunity to make a lasting impression.
Some impression >> no impression . At this point, this is a get out the vote exercise. Quality is not really at a premium; quantity is. The official campaign so far has already generated tremendous interest. If someone needs deep convincing now, it's probably not worth doing anything more than urging them to go out and vote, and thank them for the time.

Not directed at you specifically, since we know you're among the several who are doing their bit. But I'm trying to encourage the ones who feel they can't help get out the vote because of lack of fluency. That's not really a concern at all; an enthusiastic but somewhat verbally fumbling caller is just as useful as a fluent one. Times like this come once a generation onlee.

What is the procedure for cold calling from Amreeka? I have at least 1 person who is willing to do cold calling.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 22 Apr 2014 06:27

This is my line (in telugu I add andi, meeru, dayachesi, tappakunda, chuttalu etc words)

"Namaste sir/madam! My name is Rama and I am calling from BJP America team. I am calling to request your vote for Sri Narendra Modi in these elections. Kindly vote for BJP for a better Bharat.

If they ask how did you get my number?
Our BJP office team arranged for these calls and we got these numbers from them.

If they say, definitely we will vote...
Please make sure that you have voter slip/Id card, poling booth details etc. If you need help please contact any BJP worker and they will help you.

Kindly encourage your friends & family also to vote for BJP. We need encouragement & support from good/patriotic people like you. "

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 22 Apr 2014 06:49

http://m.economictimes.com/opinion/inte ... 066873.cms

Ready to work with Congress on FDI, policy continuity top priority: Narendra Modi

In a wide-ranging interview to ET that focussed on election prospects as well as economic policy challenges, Narendra Modi predicted a NDA win and a Congress rout, but said he's ready to work with Congress post-poll. Significantly, Modi had words of praise for Prime Minister Manmohan Singh even while he strongly critiqued Congress' economic policy. Equally significantly, while answering questions on FDI policy and retail FDI, BJP's PM candidate said protecting investor sentiment and maintaining policy continuity are top priorities

If you win, you will inherit a sickly economy. A new government will have short-term pressures to lift investor mood and medium-term pressure to lift actual investment. What are your plans for these most critical areas?

I agree that the new government will inherit an economy in a very bad shape. I do not know whether it was by design that the UPA government has left the economy in a shape that is worse than ever before. Probably, it is the Congress' way of making it difficult for successor governments to work. The NDA government had demitted office in 2004 leaving the GDP growth rate in excess of 8.5%. India was poised to attain double digit growth rate and the economy looked in great shape with inflation being under control. UPA has mismanaged the economy.

When UPA is going out of power, the GDP growth rate has gone down to 4.5%, inflation is at an all-time high and the mood is of pessimism.

As far as perception-related issues are concerned, thankfully we have our track record to fall back upon. Therefore, it would be much easier to handle perception-related issues. We will have to immediately get on the job and come out of the present state of policy paralysis and lack of decision-making.

We are very clear that we want a government that does not shy away from taking decisions. We would like a stable policy framework and whatever incentives and tax structures are there should be made known to investors upfront. There should be credibility, clarity and continuity in both policy formulation and its implementation.

You are perceived to be investor-friendly. However, your party is opposed to big reforms such as FDI in multi-brand retail. Don't you think this will depress foreign investor sentiments? What happens to companies like Tesco, whose JV with the Tatas has already been approved by the Centre?

While we have expressed our reservations on FDI in multi-brand retail, our party manifesto is very clear that we welcome FDI in all sectors. Wherever we think that FDI can help in generating jobs for the youth and growth in employment, we will encourage the same. As regards individual cases, any decision will depend upon the merits of the case as revealed by its details. However, we are equally committed to take care of investor sentiments and to ensure that we do not send any message of uncertainty and lack of continuity in decision-making process which is likely to adversely impact the confidence of investors in general and foreign investors in particular.

You have said you don't believe in 100 days performance targets. But first perceptions are important. How do you plan to make your first perception?

I don't think with my own track record of more than 12 years as the chief minister of a strong and vibrant state and the track record of the six years of NDA rule, I am under much of a pressure of perception management.

Central policy has many stakeholders and vested interests. What are your plans to tackle this, do you have any fundamental reform in mind? You have said there has to be a Team India, one office can't run the country — how will you create that Team India?

I think the Team India is already there. As a chief minister, I have experienced first hand the problems that the state governments face vis-a-vis the Centre. I fully understand the expectations of the state governments. Thus, I am better placed to work closely with the chief ministers.

I also believe in delegation, decentralisation and empowerment. We should work with the principle that a work that can be done at a lower level should never be escalated to a higher level.

On land issues, the Centre has much less freedom — will you make a special effort to clear up the land for industry? If so, how?

As of now, it is the states who are taking the lead in implementation of projects and bringing about growth and development. The Centre in the last 10 years has only ended up delaying projects on one or the other pretext. Apart from an all-pervasive policy paralysis coupled with a lack of decision-making ability, it has also been large-scale corruption in the guise of environment protection which has been responsible for project delays. If the Centre can become a facilitator, then a healthy competition between the states is going to take care of issues related to project implementation.

Regarding the issue of land for industry, we are very clear that a win-win solution is possible and industrial investment need not come at the cost of sacrificing the interest of farmers. Right now we are having a situation wherein due to procedural delays the farmers are not getting adequate and timely compensation and the projects are also not taking off in time, leading to project delays and cost overruns.

So it is a lose-lose situation today. This is due to the Congress party's belief in symbolism and lip service to the interest of farmers.

We will move towards the system of speedy and more transparent process where the first priority will be to give adequate compensation to the farmers to their satisfaction and protecting the interest of the farmers. At the same time, there will be equal emphasis on time-bound project implementation.

I seriously think that in the end the additional amount paid to the farmers on enhanced compensation will be less than the money saved by timely implementation of projects.

Relations between BJP and Congress have nosedived, but won't you need Congress to get Parliament to support policy-making? Do you plan to reach out if and when you are in power?

I do not think it is a correct assessment that the relations between BJP and Congress have nosedived. It is natural during elections for pitched battles to be fought. In the last 10 years, the BJP has supported several initiatives of the Congress; be it the Food Security Bill or the Land Acquisition Bill, Lokpal Bill, Telangana etc. Today, all mature politicians understand the importance of working together on issues of vital national importance.

We hear that if you win you plan to run a smaller government. If that's true, how small will your government be... Do you have a finance minister on mind?

I think these questions are premature. It would be * appropriate that we wait till 16th May before getting into these discussions.

How will a Modi government be different from earlier ones? How will your cabinet be different? Will you go for a government of technocrats?

Again, let's wait till 16th May.

We also hear you want the Centre to focus only on areas listed out in the central list, while leaving the states to work on the states list. Will you please elaborate?

I have been a firm believer in the federal structure of our country as enshrined in the Constitution.

While any BJP-led government will never do anything to trample upon the authority of the states, we would also not shy away from our responsibility to play a role in coordinating the efforts of the states wherever needed.

Cabinet ministers frequently underperform and PMs frequently look helpless when they underperform. Will you set targets for ministers, set goals and hold ministers accountable?

As I have said, I believe in team work and collective responsibility. I believe that all the members of a team should be given specific responsibilities and empowered to discharge those responsibilities.

Needless to say, accountability has to be there in any such arrangement and it also includes me. When we work as a team, every member including the captain has to be accountable to the team. Further, in democracy ultimate accountability is to the people.

You have had difficult relationships with other countries after 2002, especially with the US. Will you travel to the US ever?

These are all figments of the imagination of certain people. I have always had the best relations with various countries. In fact, more than 100 countries participated in the last Vibrant Gujarat Investors Summit-2013. In any case, I am clear that issues between countries are far too important to be even remotely influenced by individuals or events.

How many seats will BJP win this poll as per your assessment?

This is an unprecedented election we are seeing. In every way this election is going to be difficult to predict even for psephologists. However, I have travelled the length and breadth of the country and the tremendous groundswell of support that I have seen makes me confident about a few things.

Firstly, this election we are going to see the highest turnout and the largest participation of young voters. Secondly, the sentiment against the Congress party is very strong. The Congress party is not only staring at a certain defeat, but also going to fall to its lowest tally in independent India's electoral history. I would not be surprised if the Congress fails to attain double digit score in any state and almost certainly it is not going to reach the triple figure mark nationally.

Thirdly, this is the first election in which anti-incumbency feeling is present along with overwhelming positive vote for change. Thus, I see the BJP and the NDA both achieving their best performances ever. Now, it is almost certain that the pre-poll alliance of NDA will get a clear majority.

What is Narendra Modi the person like? What motivates him, what does he dislike? What does he want to be remembered for?

You can call me a workaholic. It is most often working and the possibility of positively impacting the lives of millions which motivates me. I am stickler for punctuality and discipline. Therefore, at times I don't like it when my schedules get delayed.

It is probably too early in the day for me to be thinking about what I would like to be remembered for.

You have been critical in your speeches about Manmohan Singh.. Is there anything that you would give him credit for?

I would certainly give Dr Manmohan Singh a lot of credit for the work he did as finance minister in the Narasimha Rao government. Even as prime minister, he may have been able to do some good work had he been given the authority and independence to function.

That, however, is in the realm of history now. I certainly respect him as an individual.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 22 Apr 2014 07:00

^^^The goal is to ensure Congress does not reach enough numbers to be a viable opposition party. If they can be held well below 100, that may starve the Congress for future election funds as Congress doesn't have any core values like a Hindu ideology. Where the BJP can't get elected at the MLA level, then better to support regional parties who can hopefully be brought under the BJP umbrella later on.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 22 Apr 2014 07:02

Sidd wrote:
LokeshC wrote:That is the subliminal message to the west. Hitlers Swastika runs clockwise, the Indic one runs counter clockwise. They have taken the picture to make it resemble the Hitler one.

Modi is a dictator == Hitler, Mussolini, Saddam and hence the west's new enemy onleee.
That is a 10 year old edition when Sonia's boot licker was the editor of the magazine. Not that it has improved much even now.

The Indian Swastika can run both clockwise and anticclockwise. Depends on the regional habit and the expressionism of the male and female force.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 22 Apr 2014 07:07

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 22 Apr 2014 07:08

Re:Swastika rotation: I did not know that the indic one can go both ways, I always knew that the swastika that my community used was the 'other way' than the one Hitler used.

Doesn't one represent creation and the other destruction?

EDIT:
Eitherways, of ALL the things that outlook magazine could have put there, they choose a 'saffron' colored unwashed with Swastika. That is nothing but a message to the west, because it conforms exactly to the western Idea of a yindoooo phundamentalist.

All this when NDA was in power. This time they have to make sure these guys are kept on an electrified million volt leash that will shock them to reality if they even dream of pulling off something like this again.

shyamoo · Post by **shyamoo** » 22 Apr 2014 07:09

LokeshC wrote:I was a pseudo-secular idiot back in 2004 and I would have read it without even pausing to think what was being portrayed.

Moi is in the same club. I'm pretty sure that there are millions like us. Rather unfortunate.

I came to know about brf back in 2006 through an abcd keralite. He is a Christian but is deeply interested in Hinduism. He married his gori wife in traditional Hindu marriage ceremony. I used to consider him as a little loony!! He was planning on spending a few years in India to get a better understanding of India and her culture.

I had to leave India to know more about her and more importantly the truth about our history. Truly, it's always darkest right underneath the candle!

member_28502 · Post by **member_28502** » 22 Apr 2014 07:10

Hamsadhwani is one of the few ragas which are both in Carnatic style and Hindustani style.

Vaatapi Ganpathimbaje is one kriti that is composed in the above mentioned raga

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 22 Apr 2014 07:16

LokeshC wrote:Re:Swastika rotation: I did not know that the indic one can go both ways, I always knew that the swastika that my community used was the 'other way' than the one Hitler used.

Doesn't one represent creation and the other destruction?

No - one represents the male force and the other the female force just as ying and yang.
The neointerpretation is wrt the Nazi rightfacing one with 45 Deg rotation which somehow got coerced into destruction and the nyth has spread.The Indic version and meaning is a representation of male and female forces/spirit.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 22 Apr 2014 07:19

Recent interviews of NM focus on post-election issues and treat him as if he is PM of India.

60% of the battle is still to be fought. Just because Bhishma (MMS) fell, the battle ain't over. The real goal is Dushtha Chatusthayam.

Request Modiji to keep the pot boiling. Mango-Indian doesn't need this sophistry yet. He needs the battle cry continues until it is absolutely won.

P.S: Remember about Ashwathama! Find him and kill him before he creates mayhem.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 22 Apr 2014 07:23

Bhishma was prolly pvnr and mms is dronacharya. The former had a soft spot for ABV (yudhistira) and the BJP gang.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 22 Apr 2014 07:23

Vriksh wrote:Mehtaji... the problem has always been the implementation of laws... the better way is to work to make Modi win and in the process convince him of your many excellent ideas. In time they will get implemented.

Even though I am inclined to agree with you I just don't see a lone wolf fighting the rot in the system by itself. When Rohan marches on Mordor, the Hobbits have a role to play and it is definitely not to start trying prove themselves Aragorn and in the process lose the war

I didnt see the movie you talked about. So I didnt get Rohan , Mordor etc comment. But I did get the hint.

If Govt schools improve, then the owners of private schools will lose business, and Missionaries will lose oppurtunity of harvesting souls. And so if any CM\PM tries to improve Govt Schools, then the owners of private schools and Missionaries will pay mediamen to ruin the image of that CM\PM. This is the ONLY reason why NaMo didnt dare and didnt waste time in fixing Municipal schools in Gujarat. So IMO the chair of PM\CM doesnt have power to fix this mess. So neta-pujan is not going fix this education mess. The solution I propose is given in section-1.2 and chap-30 of my book at http://rahulmehta.com/301.htm

Fixing Govt schools is must to save Hinduism. Why? Please see my fb status at https://www.facebook.com/mehtarahulc/po ... 5506046922

I will reply more tomorrow.

Raj · Post by **Raj** » 22 Apr 2014 07:25

RamaY wrote:This is my line (in telugu I add andi, meeru, dayachesi, tappakunda, chuttalu etc words)

"Namaste sir/madam! My name is Rama and I am calling from BJP America team. I am calling to request your vote for Sri Narendra Modi in these elections. Kindly vote for BJP for a better Bharat.

If they ask how did you get my number?
Our BJP office team arranged for these calls and we got these numbers from them.

If they say, definitely we will vote...
Please make sure that you have voter slip/Id card, poling booth details etc. If you need help please contact any BJP worker and they will help you.

Kindly encourage your friends & family also to vote for BJP. We need encouragement & support from good/patriotic people like you. "

RamaY,
Can you please tell me procedure for cold calling from Amreeka? My email address is xxxxxxx.

Thanks,

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 22 Apr 2014 07:32

vnmshyam wrote:
I had to leave India to know more about her and more importantly the truth about our history. Truly, it's always darkest right underneath the candle!

Going OT:

This is a personal story:-
I used to watch Baba Ramdev's stuff out in the US and do some yoga with him. Some of the things he told sounded funny but many of them made total sense.

So on one fine India vacation, I find sitting with my dad (75+ ) watching Baba Ramdev's camp being raided by CONgi goons in uniform and I feel sad. My dad turns to me and says "Dhongi Baba deserves what he got". I was out of breath and livid with rage. Soon after that we had a raging yelling match that lasted an hour that ended with my frightened dad sleeping at my cousin's house. I do not blame him given his age, my size and how angry I was at him (there is also the issue of a feet of height difference between me and him).

That was the turning point for me, I realized how much people have been brainwashed. I really had to get into my brain and scrub out everything the Angrezi media had implanted in me. BRF did me a huge favor in that respect. My dad is still a sekoooolar congi and I keep telling him that his generation must die out for our nation to improve.

We dont talk much anymore, let alone politics or religion.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Apr 2014 07:36

Nijalingappa wrote:Hamsadhwani is one of the few ragas which are both in Carnatic style and Hindustani style.

Vaatapi Ganpathimbaje is one kriti that is composed in the above mentioned raga

I was about to bring this attention.. thanks.
search for charulatha mani's explanation on this raga in jootube.

btw, are you by chance related to 4th CM of KA?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 22 Apr 2014 07:48

Tamil rap song 'time for Modi'... decent production values.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 22 Apr 2014 08:16

Raj wrote:
Thanks,

Email sent.

Abhijit · Post by **Abhijit** » 22 Apr 2014 08:29

Lokesh ji, a very touching story. I pray to God that things become all right between you and your Dad. Fortunately for me, I haven't had such a disagreement with anyone in my family (it has always been BJP all the way) but a few of my very close friends, unbeknownst to me, turned out to be total congress/AAP-brainwashed people. I would never have imagined it in several years of our association. But I have learned to simply ignore their opinions and to their credit, they have decided to leave out politics from our interaction. A political disagreement is not worth a rupture in relationship. If NaMo can claim that he still has a friendly relationship with Pawar and other Congressi pillars, we can too. It is more important to try to convert those that have a real stake in the outcome of the election - rather than the ideological deadwood.
JMHO.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Apr 2014 08:52

LokeshC, please listen to me and be friendly with your father. There is no one like your own father.
Thanks for listening.

Ramana

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 22 Apr 2014 09:14

Lokesh
I and my dad could never get together on this issue. Dad was a freedom fighter and naively believed that the Congress party still had elements of that original group in them. At the end of the day we always got together making fun of the opposite party but I could not never bring him to like even Vajpayee. My dad had seen 1st hand LKA getting money for the party from his friend who was a factory owner.

Frederic · Post by **Frederic** » 22 Apr 2014 09:25

Hi All,

*First round of Kanyakumari cold calling done. Taking a break. Interim report follows:

*Spoke to several BJP functionaries. Looks like Vasantha Kumar from Congress is the main rival for Pon.RadhaKrishnan in KanniyaKumari.

*Everyone that I spoke with, without exception, are expecting a BJP win. The only question is the margin of victory.

* The church will announce "their" candidate in a secret meeting and this will be conveyed to all the parish families in a hush-hush manner.

*This time many Christian families want to vote for BJP. Many are impressed by Modi and want to see him in Delhi.

* If the Christian vote shifts en masse to Pon Radhakrishnan, the margin will be huge. If not, he will still win, albeit with a lesser margin.

Best
Fred

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 22 Apr 2014 09:32

Damn right.

Bloody at one point BJP had 2. Ergo everybody was a congi or a B-Teamer once. Being congi today is like being BJP tomorrow.

Due regard for relationships (within families, villages, professions, with the king, towards women) granted us the longevity. No amount of nothing except relationships will work in future either. Notice how everything coming from west is always designed to undermine this one yoga of relationships that our country has preserved. I have marked as personally inimical everything designed to extract this response out of me - whether expressed in english or chaste Hindi. Some guys in MSM can be particularly devastating in this regard. They speak some real good Hindi but will always deliver the same contorted message. Always the faithful servant to their western masters. As somebody here said the last westerner would be an Indian - most likely from MSM/JNU.

Anything other than what I call Ardhnareshwara response is not worth spending time on - except for the more wholesome purpose of making fun of.

Oh! i digress. Listen to ramana garu.

................
And while the confessional is on, I also fight/argue out loud, with my father. But I do give in after a while. I am also a bit of a fiery tongue

.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 22 Apr 2014 09:49

LokeshC wrote:
vnmshyam wrote:
I had to leave India to know more about her and more importantly the truth about our history. Truly, it's always darkest right underneath the candle!

Going OT:

This is a personal story:-
I used to watch Baba Ramdev's stuff out in the US and do some yoga with him. Some of the things he told sounded funny but many of them made total sense.

So on one fine India vacation, I find sitting with my dad (75+ ) watching Baba Ramdev's camp being raided by CONgi goons in uniform and I feel sad. My dad turns to me and says "Dhongi Baba deserves what he got". I was out of breath and livid with rage. Soon after that we had a raging yelling match that lasted an hour that ended with my frightened dad sleeping at my cousin's house. I do not blame him given his age, my size and how angry I was at him (there is also the issue of a feet of height difference between me and him).

That was the turning point for me, I realized how much people have been brainwashed. I really had to get into my brain and scrub out everything the Angrezi media had implanted in me. BRF did me a huge favor in that respect. My dad is still a sekoooolar congi and I keep telling him that his generation must die out for our nation to improve.

We dont talk much anymore, let alone politics or religion.

Sorry to know about the rift between you and your dad, saar. I think yelling matches are no good for convincing people. As soon as someone is told aggressively that he is wrong, then ego kicks in and he starts defending the idea. He is not defending the idea, he is defending his ego. This applies to all of us. Nobody likes to be told that they are wrong.

So, I think the right strategy is 'slow poison' or 'passing on the info' i.e keep giving small infos to people. All these small infos/opinions have cumulative over a period of time. Time and cumulative factor are the important aspects. If you notice, this is exactly how the mainstream media also tries to do its job. It prepares its audience in small incremental doses until they are ready to listen to them in more sympathetic manner.

What sort of info to pass?
It depends on the audience. Knowing which buttons to push in your audience will help you in convincing them more easily, I think.

For example, your father felt that Ramdev Baba was a dongi i.e fake. It would be interesting to know why he felt like that. If he thought that Ramdev Baba was just in the business of making money, then one can say that he is like any other business person(perhaps with the added bonus of rooted in Bhaarathiya culture). Think of Ramdev Baba as an entrepreneur. A man from humble beginnings rises to a level and in the process also makes Yoga and Ayurvedha hugely popular and affordable/accessible to many Bhaarathiyas. Its a success story. If some foreigner had done it, people would have gone gaga over it.

So, even if the Baba is a fake one(which in itself is just biased view), he is still a huge success both economic wise and cultural wise. He has made yoga and ayurvedha popular and affordable(which means better health for people and that means lesser medical costs which translates to good living). And Baba has earned name, fame and money in the process. Thats a very good model of success. Its a win win model. Most other corporates hardly have such a win win model.

I think it takes some time for people to change their views and people should be given time to adjust their opinions. Expecting people to suddenly change their views maybe unfair because its not possible for people to change views suddenly.

Passing small bits of info is a useful method because it gives people time to absorb the info in small doses. Most of the people turn off when they are barraged with lots of info that they cannot handle. They will simply turn off their mind and think that the person giving this info is some nutjob or loony or weird or conspiracy theorist ...etc.

On the other hand mainstream media's power is because people are constantly exposed to it, so it can mould views in slow and methodical manner in incremental doses. Once the audience has been prepared, then they will be more sympathetic to accept without questioning. For example, most people will accept anything that is put out by the mainstream media without questioning(this is especially true for the convent educated or sauve folks. The rustic folk may still raise doubts/questions because their minds have not been prepared adequately by the media and education).

So, telling people things that are too big or sudden for them and then expecting them to change their views suddenly is a bit unfair. For example, in 2009, most people found it simply unbelievable that an elected PM would want to give away a national territory. But, now, after seeing all other antics, people over time(and time is the most important factor) have become more sympathetic to the view that such a thing can happen.

But, time factor only works when someone plans seeds. Time helps the seeds in sprouting. If the seeds are not planted, then the time makes no change. So, someone needs to raise the ideas, even if they are considered taboo. Initially, if the ideas are considered taboo, there will be opposition and ridicule to it. I think the right thing is raise the issue and give people time to absorb it. And then come back and try again another time.

For example, most people who are brainwashed into believing the stories of Thaj Mahal and Shah Jahan would find the idea of Thejo Mahalaya very difficult to accept. So, initially, it is enough to convey that the official story does not stick i.e. Shah Jahan's so-called love for one of his harem-mates is hard to swallow. And to think that he would splurge resources for such a thing when he was constantly engaged in quelling rebellions is highly dubious.

If Modi or BJP come to power, I hope they open the entire Thaj corridor to people(even the ones that were sealed by the Shah Jahan or the brits) and make a proper archeological survey.

prasannasimha wrote:
LokeshC wrote:Re:Swastika rotation: I did not know that the indic one can go both ways, I always knew that the swastika that my community used was the 'other way' than the one Hitler used.

Doesn't one represent creation and the other destruction?
No - one represents the male force and the other the female force just as ying and yang.
The neointerpretation is wrt the Nazi rightfacing one with 45 Deg rotation which somehow got coerced into destruction and the nyth has spread.The Indic version and meaning is a representation of male and female forces/spirit.

I think there are two types: Hindhu one and Buddhist one. Buddhist one seems to have been taken by the Nazis. Buddhist one itself is most probably inspired from Hindhu one. Anyway, Swasthika is an ancient symbol used in many cultures. So, those who think that Swasthika represents Nazis are wrong. Infact, Nazis wrongly tried to usurp the Swasthika.

johneeG wrote:
disha wrote:^^^ JohneeG, the site from Stephen Knapp is known and also his many talks.

The problem with the photographic evidence is that most of them are unattested.
True. I think Stephen Knapp should have mentioned the sources more precisely for the pictures.

disha wrote: For example, Art Photo#6 in Vedic influence in art across the word. It is mentioned that it is found in the museum of corinth. However it is not connected to say any other identification like the catalogue number of the artefact, even the catalogue number of the museum's inventory will do. This then makes it difficult to trace its historicity, for example - when was it found? Which layer was it found? What other images and objects were excavated around it? Where was it actually found? Could it describe a settlement of Indians in Greece? Or was it a trade item?

Given that none of the above can be answered, the evidence above is negated. Worse, if one is going to take down such an important clue, they now know where to find it. Here is all the catalogue of images taken from the archeological site of Corinth, Greece. http://ascsa.net/research?v=default.
Thanks for that link you provided. I searched that site and found the Art Photo#6.

Title: Pastoral mosaic with shepherd
Category Code: bw
Year: 1998
Roll Number: 059
Frame Number: 22
Photographer: Ioannidou - Bartzioti
Size: 35mm
Old Negative: bw-9598
Site: Corinth
City: Corinth
Country: Greece
http://ascsa.net/id/corinth/image/1998_st_059_022

Title: Pastoral mosaic with shepherd
Category Code: bw
Year: 1989
Frame Number: 9598
Size: 18x24
New Negative: 1998-059-22
Date: 1989
Site: Corinth
City: Corinth
Country: Greece
http://ascsa.net/id/corinth/image/1998_st_059_022

Mosaic Floor, Pastoral Scene, 150–200 AD

http://drkoine.com/museums/countries/gr ... -full.html
It seems that the mosaic depicting a pastoral scene was part of a larger floor from a Roman villa found at Ancient Corinth from 150-200 AD.

Pastoral scenes are also commonly found, for example in the aforementioned Roman Villa4
and also from Anaploga5. With regard to geometric elements, intersecting circles, fields of peltae,swastika meander, guilloche and stepped squares are among the more usual elements found6. It could be said in fact that the closest parallels for the Corinthian mosaics can be found in Patras and in Sparta7. For example, a group of mosaics from Patras8 and the mosaic from the property of Paraskevopoulou in Sparta compare well with that of the Mosaic House in the Forum
in Corinth9.
http://www.academia.edu/325761%20/A_New ... the_Colony

It seems Swastikas were popular in ancient Greece and ancient Italy.

Ancient greek coin hemidrachm swastika

http://www.ufo-contact.com/ancient-swas ... m-swastika

Ancient Pompeii floor Swastika

http://www.ufo-contact.com/ancient-swas ... r-swastika

Description
English: Corinthia, Corinth. Circa 550-500 BC. Stater (Silver, 8.61 g). Pegasos, with curved wing, flying to left; below, koppa. Rev. Incuse in the form of a swastika to left. BCD Corinth 3 (this coin). Ravel - (P-/T 54). Very rare and remarkably attractive, perfectly centered and one of the best examples of this type known. Good extremely fine. From the collections of APCW and BCD, Lanz 105, 26 November 2001, 3. This is one of the finest of all archaic Corinthian staters known. Instead of walking, as on the earliest examples of this type, Pegasos is clearly flying here since all his hooves are diagonal and not flat on the ground. The swastika patterned incuse on the reverse is actually a very ancient solar symbol, found in many parts of the world, and has no political meaning.
NOMOS3, 93

10499. MACEDON, AKANTHOS, Circa 470-390 BC. AR Tetrobol (15mm, 2.40 g). Forepart of bull left, head right; Π, swastika, and olive spray above / Quadripartite incuse square. SNG ANS -; SNG Copenhagen -. Good VF, toned. Rare combination of control marks. Ex CNG.
Cows and Bulls seem to be respected icons in ancient Greece.

9385. ILLYRIA, EPIDAMNOS-DYRRHACHIUM, 400-350 BC. AR Stater, Sear 1890. Cow stg. r. looking back at suckling calf/DUR and club around square containing double stellate pattern. EF. Fine old cabinet toning. Excellent example.
http://www.edgarlowen.com/greek-coins-greece.shtml

disha wrote: Others for example are Art Photos #10 and #11.

Stephen Knapp has not mentioned the name of Archeological Site, so I could not find them. I'll search some more...

But, it seems there are a figures named 'Satyr' in ancient Greek literature. Most of the depictions of 'Satyr' in Greek art are similar to Art Photo # 10 (Vali and Sugreeva).

520–500 BCE, from VulciAttic painted vases depict mature satyrs as being strongly built with flat noses, large pointed ears, long curly hair, and full beards, with wreaths of vine or ivy circling their balding heads. Satyrs often carry the thyrsus: the rod of Dionysus tipped with a pine cone.

Satyrs acquired their goat-like aspect through later Roman conflation with Faunus, a carefree Italic nature spirit of similar temperament. Hence satyrs are most commonly described in Latin literature as having the upper half of a man and the lower half of a goat, with a goat's tail in place of the Greek tradition of horse-tailed satyrs. Mature satyrs are often depicted in Roman art with goat's horns, while juveniles are often shown with bony nubs on their foreheads.
...
Their habitat is the forests and mountains.
http://wikishareideas.com/memberarticle ... images-524

So, it seems the Satyrs are supposed to be half-man half-horse in ancient Greek and they were transformed into half-man half-goat in Roman culture.

But, it must be noted that half-man half-horse thingy is the modern day interpretation of Greek art. The art only shows a man like being with a tail and pointed ears(which are interpreted as horse ears. What if those are monkey ears?).

Is it possible that Satyrs are the grecian portrayal of 'Vanaras'(of Ramayana)? Those pointed ears of Satyrs can also be interpreted as monkey ears. Satyrs are supposed to dell in woodlands and are generally depicted as reveling merry making. This depiction tallies with the depiction of 'Vanaras'. In fact, the description of the features of Satyr, particularly the fun-loving nature, are more apt for a half-man half-monkey than half-man half-horse(or half-goat).

Satryrs are depicted as carrying a rod tipped with a pine cone. Maybe it is a depiction of a mace (Vanaras are depicted as carrying a mace in India).

Link to post

johneeG wrote:
disha wrote: Satyr/Vanara could be a tenous link and the image could be as well of vanara misinterpreted by the curator as satyr. Similarly the swastika has been found across many cultures including Hopi Indians. So it might be a global cometary event.
It seems one of the etymologies of Vanara is "Vane charati iti vanara" i.e. "that which roams in forests is vanara". This etymology works for any wild animal. The portrayals of Satyr in Greek art is uncannily reminding of Indian portrayals of Vanara. So, the connection may be there.

True. Swastika is found in many cultures. But, the question is of origin. Where did Swastika originated? The clue may lie in the extensive use of that symbol across the ages. I think Swastika originated in India and spread to other cultures. Most of the east-asian cultures acquired Swastika(the reverse swastika) through Buddhism.

Anyway, please note that I posted the pictures that show the prevalence of Swastikas along with reverence of horses, bulls, cows(and calves). This combination of Swastika, reverence of horses, bulls, cows(and calfs) is quintessentially Indian/Vedic in character.

Link to post

KLP Dubey · Post by **KLP Dubey** » 22 Apr 2014 09:54

Anantha wrote:Lokesh
I and my dad could never get together on this issue. Dad was a freedom fighter and naively believed that the Congress party still had elements of that original group in them. At the end of the day we always got together making fun of the opposite party but I could not never bring him to like even Vajpayee. My dad had seen 1st hand LKA getting money for the party from his friend who was a factory owner.

My parampujya janak has voted for almost every party that he possibly could, from commies in KL (1960s) to Janata Party (DL, 70s) to TDP (AP, 80s) to Janata Dal and BJP (DL, 90s and 00s) to various commies and INC (Tharoor) in KL lately. He once told me he would have voted for Jyoti Basu ("very nice fellow") if he had been living in WB.

Basically he just votes for the candidate that he thinks is a nice guy. He would not vote for BJP-Rajagopal in Tvm ("old and ineffective"). Theek hai.

Moral: Never fight with your father about politics. It's not worth it.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 22 Apr 2014 09:54

RamaY wrote:He was shy at first but after much harassment/teasing he did that and everyone agreed Abki Bar Modi Sarkar!

Very excellent. I wouldn't have been able to do it what or your friend had done. Pranam.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 22 Apr 2014 10:02

Thanks for all the replies folks (this is again OT, and I will take it to the OT thread if there is followup).

wrt. my father, we never had a happy relationship to begin with. There were other things that contributed to it. That particular incident was the last straw.

We both have mellowed down since, but things have never been the same. I dont think they will ever be. Although I must admit that I have not made an attempt from my side to change anything for the better. The healing has been organic.

WRT friends who are congi, I consider them as naive colonial agents. I just cannot bring myself to put that behind and be friends with them anymore. I try... however

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 22 Apr 2014 10:05

My dad is a commie and commie trade union leader to boot. We do have our fair share of discussions on politics and he knows when I am silent on something I am avoiding a sharp reaction at him. One question he could not answer was why should your son go and work in Bangalore when Kerala has all the resources Karnataka has. Half the population in my office is from Kerala and he has met them so he knows this is a fact. LDF and UDF have ruled Kerala as per their secular and left logics for decades and they still cannot attract investment in service sector which do not need land or natural resources on a massive scale.

Abhijit · Post by **Abhijit** » 22 Apr 2014 10:10

With close friends, I treat their conginess as a kind of disease. Some patients can be cured. Some have to be quarantined. But one doesn't abandon ones sick relatives or friends, right? I am waiting for the NaMo sarkar to happen, come May 16th. If the disease-stricken patients continue to display a dangerous and deleterious behavior even after that, then I will think afresh about what to do with the relationship.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 22 Apr 2014 10:19

my father was involved in a variety of commie movements. he was elected as an office holder to the CPM controlled co-ordination committee, the employee union of the state secretariat. from what he saw there, even though he disliked cong, he started hating CPM much more. he even joined the naxals because they were very anti-CPM (as you might understand from this, WB politics is very complex. which is why simplistic generalisations by people outside do not work)

anyway, he wasn't involved in active politics after 70's but would vote for anyone who could defeat CPM. voted TMC last election. is very impressed by modi but is dismissive of other bjp leaders.
one of his best friends is a card carrying CPM member whom he needles endlessly with taunts and barbs about CPM, much to the amusement of rest of us.

IMHO, it's not worth disrupting personal relations for political differences. a friend of mine is a CPM state level leader, we are still friends. I feel that's what is nice about India.

Frederic · Post by **Frederic** » 22 Apr 2014 10:25

Final report from today's Kanyakumari calling:

*Called about 50 numbers. All cold calls.

*A sample follows:
4 members , will all vote for BJP, strong support for BJP in Colachel.

Treasurer, BJP. Congress giving a tough fight. Christian candidate.

BJP functionary in his panchayat.

Spoke to Mr.S, Kanyakumari district exec committee member. Confident of victory.

Another BJP functionary. Confident of win.

BJP youth wing member. Confident of victory.

BJP supporter. 4 votes.

BJP volunteer. Driver. Taking off for 20 days. Working for Modi. Confident of win.

RSS member. Gives a 50 - 50 chance to BJP. Congress spending money like water.

BJP functionary. Confirms enthusiasm for Modi across religious line. Predicts BJP win.

BJP supporter. Malayalee. 5 votes. Predicts BJP win.

5 votes. BJP supporter. Predicts BJP win.

4 votes. Will vote for BJP. Predicts BJP win due to Modi factor this time.

In addition spoke to several grocery shop owners, taxi cab owners.
Majority of the people seem to think that BJP is going to win this time.