India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 22 Apr 2014 15:13

Anand K wrote:I did a quick search and saw that there is no equivalent high-power "Indian deep research initiative" in the Social Impact/PubAd departments of other major B-Schools. Of course Harvard Kennedy School and other schools directly concerned with Government and Society have similar research wings and a number of students working on thesis/doctorates in such topics. A HKS Grad chaddi-buddy commie belches this stuff day in and day out in his FB page.
But why a top-10 B-School like Haas? Berkeley always had the liberal douche-bag hippie tag (as Cartman would say ) but why has it filtered into the fu(king "capitalist nest" Haas school? Why not Berkeley Goldman School or the Berkeley Institute of Government Studies? Like, did major corporate houses fund this study to understand how to deal with such impediments that could impact investing and business in India?

IIRC we had at least one member from Haas. You there, banker-shaayar? Any insider Alumni info?

In. due. course. it. will. be. available.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Apr 2014 05:55

Fun starts afresh

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 23 Apr 2014 17:12

Bribe scam: US approaches India for provisional arrest of Andhra politician KVP Ramachandra Rao

Hyderabad: The US has approached India for the provisional arrest of Rajya Sabha MP KVP Ramachandra Rao after he was indicted by an American court in a bribery case.

Dr KVP Ramachandra Rao, senior politician and close adviser of late chief minister Y.S. Rajasekhar Reddy, was named along with Ukrainian industrialist Dmitry Firtash and four others by a US grand jury for their suspected roles in an $18.5 million scheme to bribe Indian officials for a titanium mining contract in Andhra Pradesh, the US Justice Department said on Wednesday.

Mr Firtash, who was arrested in March in Austria, was allegedly the mastermind behind the multimillion-dollar scam, said US Justice authorities. He had also allegedly met Dr YSR to discuss a joint venture between his company and the state government. Rajya Sabha MP KVP Ramachandra Rao faces extradition to the United States and is to be tried in a Chicago court as the case booked by the FBI against him is an extraditable offence.

Read: Senior politician KVP Ramachandra Rao, Ukrainian tycoon named in $18.5 million mine scam

The CBI, while executing the warrant, will have to produce the defendant before the Chief Metropolitan Magistrate Court (Extradition Court) Patiala in Delhi and once the extradition court gives its nod, he will be taken to the US for trial. The US can even ask for the provisional arrest of the defendant if it feels the urgency.

Beginning in 2006, the defendants allegedly conspired to pay at least $18.5 million in bribes to secure licences to mine minerals in Andhra Pradesh. The mining project was expected to generate more than $500 million annually from the sale of titanium products, including sales to an unnamed firm, identified as “Company A”, headquartered in Chicago.

While I have no sympathy for this looter, should India turn over an MP to USA? Would US arrest a senator and turn him over to India? They didn't even give Headley to India. India should at least bargain for Headley.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 23 Apr 2014 17:19

Ask for reciprocal extradition of Warren Anderson to stand trail in Bhopal case in India. An extradition request is pending with the US.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 23 Apr 2014 17:48

Considering tthis guy was close to EJ YSR, does the US want to feret him out before he gets into the wrong hands.

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 23 Apr 2014 18:09

Crook or EJ, YSR friend or foe, KVP is an Indian citizen. The US has no jurisdiction in this matter and the Indian authorities shouldn't even consider the request.

saip · Post by **saip** » 23 Apr 2014 18:57

pankajs wrote:Ask for reciprocal extradition of Warren Anderson to stand trail in Bhopal case in India. An extradition request is pending with the US.

Actually declare the magistrate who issued the warrant guilty of contempt of the Parliament and issue a warrant for his arrest for exercising extra territorial jurisdiction.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 23 Apr 2014 19:23

The headline and the tone of the article appears as if FATCA is a international UN agreement which India needs to abide.

India concludes pact with US on tax evasion under FATCA

India has concluded an 'in substance' agreement with the US to combat possible tax evasion by Americans through Indian financial entities.

The 'in substance' agreement with India under Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) was concluded on April 11, the US Treasury said.

Market regulator Sebi plans to issue guidelines for market intermediaries in this regard this fiscal, sources said.

The US said India has consented to Model 1 - Intergovernmental Agreement (IGA) under FATCA.

As per Model 1, financial entities will be required to report information on US account holders to the US IRS (internal revenue service) through CBDT.

The FATCA requires the US government to sign IGAs with various countries, including India, where American individuals and companies may hold accounts and other assets.

"Regulatory measures from SEBI and other regulators after the signing of this IGA would immensely help Indian financial institutions to cope up with this complex regulation," said Amit Maheshwari, Partner Ashok Maheshwary & Associates.

He said other regulators like RBI are also expected to issue guidelines to ensure compliance of FATCA.

Signing of IGA coupled with regulatory measures from SEBI would be helpful for Indian financial institutions and corporates to better comply with this significant legislation, experts said.

Sebi was asked to examine the applicability of the FATCA provisions to all market intermediaries regulated by the capital markets regulator. This was examined by Sebi in coordination with the Finance Ministry.

According to sources, necessary comments and suggestions have been provided to the Ministry and pursuant to the government directions, Sebi would issue appropriate guidelines in 2014-15 to market intermediaries on due diligence and reporting requirements with respect to FATCA.

While FATCA became a law way back in 2010, the final regulations were issued for it in January 2013 and it is set to come into effect from July 1, 2014 after signing of IGAs with different countries.

The law aims to check and impose withholding tax on illicit activities of some wealthy individuals who use offshore accounts to evade millions of dollars in taxes.

A noncompliance with FATCA entails 30 per cent withholding tax on certain US source payments.

The US Treasury had released two formats of the IGA - Model 1 and Model 2. In Model 2, financial institutions will report information directly to the US IRS rather than their local jurisdictions.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Apr 2014 19:28

I don't understand the issue here: The company that committed the crime is in the US. The CRIMINALS were mainly in US but the CRIME was against India IOW, the crime was committed IN INDIA (Indian officials being bribed) - so why does the US have jurisdiction and not India? Shouldn't it be India that asks for extradition of everyone associated with this company in the US to stand trial in India?

VERY screwed-up logic operating here... wonder what MMS does hoisting the TriColor on Aug 15 instead of the (never mind..). Does he have permission from US State Dept to hoist these other flags?

I can now ask, like Americans ask visiting British citizens:

Do you have July 4th over there?

(No, our calendar for July goes 1,2,3,5,.. what-what I say!)

The answer from the MMS government may be

Yes, saar, we are having independence day hiya aljo, but aug. 15 eej only Indian independenj day, REAL independenj day is July 4 onlee!

The FATWA or whatever is discussed in the post above is another instance: money made in India is taxed more by the US than in India.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Apr 2014 19:44

And BTW, this is flat-out propaganda:

The law aims to check and impose withholding tax on illicit activities of some wealthy individuals who use offshore accounts to evade millions of dollars in taxes.
A noncompliance with FATCA entails 30 per cent withholding tax on certain US source payments.

It is intended to harass and rob ordinary yak-herders. The Wealthy Individuals don't put their money in bank accounts.

See for yourself: First one has to fill out the IRS form 1040 Schedule B. Then FBAR. Then the FINCEN, repeating the same info, but sent to a different agency via a different process.

"offshore" conjures images of the balmy Cayman islands breezes with the fragrance of cocaine, or the green palms of Mauritius, but in fact it means the grimy portal of State Desi Bank with the fine Customer Sarbhij from the zzzzz Babus who lose one's cheque 20% of the time and don't respond to questions.
It is part of an explosion of paperwork under the BO administration, most of it utterly hostile towards anyone who does any honest work like yak-herding.
And all this is now made sooo much easier to comply with, since the Indian Tax Babus fixed it so that the TDS info cannot be seen or downloaded from outside India!!!!!

Hang them all! May they slip and fall on their musharrafs in yak dung when they step out of their Dapthars.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 23 Apr 2014 20:01

UlanBatori wrote: the crime was committed IN INDIA (Indian officials being bribed) - so why does the US have jurisdiction and not India?

India has jurisdiction. But the odds of a Congress party MP being convicted for corruption in India are small. Similar to how Headley was prosecuted in the USA, CBI could investigate and prosecute him as well.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Apr 2014 20:39

What is provisonal arrest and how does that jive with Habeas Corpus prinicples of English Common law on which the US legal system is based! Looks more like a blow to MMS before he demits office since he is exercising the pwoer sof the office even while a lame duck.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Apr 2014 03:21

If this Useless corrupt Senator is involved in scam then get Daud Gillani in exchange as one time deal.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 24 Apr 2014 07:35

See Mug-e-Ellison Bin Paki

pradeepe · Post by **pradeepe** » 24 Apr 2014 09:06

saip wrote:
pankajs wrote:Ask for reciprocal extradition of Warren Anderson to stand trail in Bhopal case in India. An extradition request is pending with the US.
Actually declare the magistrate who issued the warrant guilty of contempt of the Parliament and issue a warrant for his arrest for exercising extra territorial jurisdiction.

+1
I am still waiting for an arrest warrant and Interpol notice against Preet burr...for facilitating and abetting custodial rape of an Indian diplomat.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 24 Apr 2014 09:47

UlanBatori wrote:See Mug-e-Ellison Bin Paki

Ellison & (sorry to say that my own congressman is a co-sponsor for this shameful resolution) Co has a lobbying firm...The Indian American Muslim Council (IAMC) hired the American lobbying firm, Fidelis Government Relations.. IAMC retained it just days before the resolution was introduced. ..

For those who do not know, disgusting HR 417 calls for the creation of separate extra-judicial religious minority courts to conduct trials and hear appeals. That suggestion was seen to directly challenge the credibility of India's secular judiciary. It also calls for a continued U.S. boycott of Narendra Modi, and cites the disgraced tabloid Tehelka among its evidence...

If you are US citizen, (or a friend of US) please . check out
Action Alert

>>>What makes H.Res 417 flawed?

- Blames only Hindu nationalism for communal violence and ignores the fact that 80% of attacks in India in 2012 were carried out by the Indian Mujahideen, with much of the remaining 20% carried out by Maoist terrorists;

- Fails to mention the attacks on Akshardham, Bodh Gaya, and others in India as well as the communally charged public statements by Islamist leader Akbaruddin Owaisi, Andhra Pradesh MLA, in 2013 against Hindu deities and practitioners;

- Calls for the creation of religious minority courts to conduct trials and appeals - a suggestion that neither Congressmen has offered to 1) countries, such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Malaysia, where religious minorities face serious repression and; 2) the U.S., where courts, like in India, are secular in nature;

-Ignores India's unprecedented religious accommodations for minorities, and instead calls for the repeal of "anti-conversion" laws while failing to mention the detrimental impact on social harmony caused by predatory proselytization and coerced conversions primarily carried out by U.S. based missionary outfits;

-Disregards the findings of the Indian Supreme Court's Special Investigative Team (SIT) absolving Modi of complicity in the 2002 Gujarat riots and omits the findings of the SIT which uncovered that some human rights activists deliberately falsified evidence and concocted macabre incidents of violence.

Find out your Congressman's contact info

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/

Call the Washington office..

(For those who say "won't make any difference" ..कर्मणयेवाधिकारस्ते मा फलेषु कदाचन।...

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 24 Apr 2014 11:43

The only real reason why khan is so called Muslim humdard only specifically for India and wets in its pants when it comes to Muslim majority nations with oil where minorities are treated like crap is because they fear that if modi comes to power with majority, the first thing he will do is that he will stop the business of soul harvesting which is massive business for khan churches worldwide. Hence wear the mask of Muslim protector and also introduce the clauses related to conversion in it. I am telling you my friends yanks are out there to weaken India by any and every means and mass conversion is one of them. Modi government will bring this business to halt for several years and by the time he is retired a generation would have changed in India who will give damn to west.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 24 Apr 2014 12:09

Strong Hand Hasn't Fared Well in India

By ELLEN BARRYAPRIL 22, 2014

nytimes.com | April 22, 2014

NEW DELHI — At a dinner party in one of this city’s wealthy enclaves recently, the subject had turned to the Indian election, and the elegant, accomplished woman sitting beside me explained why she had decided to back Narendra Modi. “What India needs right now,” she said, “is a benevolent despot.”

It’s not unusual to hear this sentiment in New Delhi drawing rooms these days. These are not necessarily speeches in praise of Mr. Modi, the hard-nosed, pro-business leader of the state of Gujarat. They describe a yearning for restoration of control, and the hope that it will translate into growth.

Over the last five years, optimism about India’s future has been replaced by anxiety about slipping behind — in particular, behind China. Blame has settled on the Indian National Congress-led government: its prime minister ineffectual, its parliamentary sessions clamorous and embarrassing. The desire for a strong hand has taken hold among the elites. Mr. Modi has had fortunate timing.

It reminded me of something. In the late 1990s, the same yearning had emerged in Russia, a country I had covered on and off since the Soviet collapse. With the economy in disarray — a situation far more dire than India’s, it should be said — President Boris N. Yeltsin was seen by Russians as a drunken bumbler, allowing oligarchs to plunder the state’s assets while ordinary people suffered.

The cry went up, even among liberals, for some version of Gen. Augusto Pinochet, the former dictator of Chile. Against that backdrop, Mr. Yeltsin handed off power to a former K.G.B. agent, Vladimir V. Putin.

Mr. Putin, alert to his mandate, set about consolidating power: He stripped the country’s oligarchs of their media holdings and political voice. He neutralized the threat posed by regional political heavyweights. Creating a superpresidency, one of his aides told me years later, was the only way to get anything done.

The trouble with consolidating power, even in a centralized state like Russia, is that the job is never finished. New political challenges kept arising — from the middle class, from the Internet, from economic technocrats. After the smart economic reforms of Mr. Putin’s first term, vital tasks, like rebuilding the country’s infrastructure and manufacturing base, went neglected.

Today Mr. Putin has more unchecked authority, arguably, than any other world leader. He is certainly credited with restoring Russia’s position on the world stage. But can he govern? Corruption has flourished. Russia’s economy is no more diversified than it was when he took power. And after 14 years of economic growth, the road between Moscow and St. Petersburg — the most heavily trafficked cargo route in the country — remains a potholed mess.

This yearning for an enlightened despot has emerged before in India. When Indira Gandhi introduced the Emergency in 1975, imposing harsh penalties for acts that “cause or tend to cause public disorder,” well-off Indians loved it. Trains ran on time; bureaucrats were more disciplined; the streets felt safer; and, as a New York Times correspondent wrote at the time, “many Indians feel that they are now better off, economically or in some other way.”

That time lasted 18 months. Unlike Russia, India has repeatedly proved ill suited to authoritarian rule, a fact that Mr. Modi will surely encounter if he becomes prime minister.

Nor is it clear that a consolidation of power can give India economic growth. The 20th century was full of examples of authoritarian leaders, among them Mao and Stalin, who transformed their economies by imposing policies on unruly societies. Since then, though, the correlation has weakened. Globalization has forced leaders to consider external factors like investment and access to private capital, which are drawn to democratic systems.

If Mr. Modi becomes prime minister, there will almost certainly be moments when he glances over with envy at his counterpart in Moscow, but he would be wise to focus on building roads and factories, the accomplishments that have made him popular in Gujarat. He can’t behave like Mr. Putin. For that, you need 10 million barrels of oil per day.

© 2014 The New York Times Company

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 24 Apr 2014 13:27

Everyone and his uncle are out there giving advice to India. I am sure Modi would be treated like new Putin by Khan despite being the democratically elected leader of India.
Pls spare us the malarkey of worrying about so much power concentrated in single persons hands, Why not look at the power PoTUS has.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 24 Apr 2014 13:33

ShankarCag wrote:Crook or EJ, YSR friend or foe, KVP is an Indian citizen. The US has no jurisdiction in this matter and the Indian authorities shouldn't even consider the request.

For Jesus sake, he is a politician and In India, you don't go around touching politicians like that, and that too on Yankee request. Chill and enjoy. Indian Babudom is a labyrinth which even babus cant fathom anymore.

BTW in this story, no one is asking about who bribed whom and for what and what happened of all the money exchanged ?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 24 Apr 2014 13:41

The US has failed to understand and internalise a central truth as far as India is concerned. Everything we get from them we pay for. We don't want, nor do we expect, aid of any kind. Everything they get from us, they pay for.

We expect mutually beneficial trade based on demand and supply considerations. If they decide to act against market principles and deliberately squeeze trade with India, that's fine too. We can live with it. But there is no margin for them in that, either economically or strategically.

Military co-operation is based on the same principles, i.e. that they are mutually beneficial. If not, it won't happen.

Their advise is best received when requested, if at all; and I'm sure they feel the same way about us.

Under this umbrella, and in accordance with the above, people to people engagement can occur based on personal considerations of social, economic, cultural or even emotional benefit.

Over time, as the relationship develops, there will be more room for "trust" - i.e. when one country gives more than it might under ordinary circumstances and where considerations of profit of one sort or another are not the only motive. But this requires time, and the experience of reliability.

This is broadly how it will develop. But we are not there yet and going by the systematic idiocy displayed by the Department of State in particular, and the Obama Administration in general (undoubtedly to the chagrin of the Department of Defense I suspect), these past few years can be considered as lost; and our own hopelessly irrelevant prime minister, and his coterie of puppet masters and assorted sycophants have contributed to this situation in no small measure.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 24 Apr 2014 13:57

VikasRaina wrote:Everyone and his uncle are out there giving advice to India. I am sure Modi would be treated like new Putin by Khan despite being the democratically elected leader of India.
Pls spare us the malarkey of worrying about so much power concentrated in singe persons hands, Why not look at the power PoTUS has.

ELLEN BARRY (one who wrote that NYT article) was Moscow Bureau Chief, now she is South Asia chief.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 25 Apr 2014 01:26

Following article is from a retired US Foreign Service guy's blog [he have served in Pakistan/Sri Lanka and there are many wikileak cables on him, google: "site:wikileaks.org Lewis Amselem"].

I think he is responding to the NYT report, and questions on the "wrong war".... The article should be only about Pakistan... but starts with India, how India never really existed, its elites, Nehru, Indira. etc.

He doesn't really say it, but it is clear that from US POV defeat of Germany, Japan, Iraq unleashed Russia China and Iran. Soooo "wrong war" because the "right war" will open up opportunities for India.

Wednesday, April 23, 2014
On Pakistan: A Rerun with an Update
Almost three years ago, I posted the piece that I have copied below--it was on May 5, 2011, to be exact. I wrote it in the wake of the Osama take-down and my concerns about Western intel capabilities and the role that Pakistan played in hiding that mass murderer. A couple of days ago, a reader asked for my views on some recent lit that argues that Afghanistan was the "wrong" war and that the real war should be with Pakistan.

As you can see in the May 2011 piece below, I touched on that, noting the highly conflicted relationship we have had with Pakistan. Let me add a bit to that, and then return to the issue of the "wrong war."

India has viewed the West, and the US, in particular, as the protectors of Pakistan. As is the usual case when Indians tell their own history, they blame foreigners for much, if not most, if not all the misfortune, real and imagined, that has befallen India before and since independence. You will meet very intelligent and well-educated Indians who tell you that the British (and later the Americans) used "divide and conquer" when dealing with India. They conveniently forget, of course, that India is a British invention; there was no unified sub-continent when the British arrived. It was the British who united India and gave it whatever collective consciousness it has. The British did not invent the communal riots-cum-warfare that have swept through India since way before Hartza was a pup. The British did not introduce the dozens and dozens of languages, the many religions, and the myriad, great, colorful and very diverse cultures that characterize and divide the subcontinent.

The British bequeathed India much of what is good about India's politics and economic infrastructure. India's politicians, however, squandered much of that inheritance. The British left behind a highly educated elite that, unfortunately, proved much better at divide and conquer politics than the British, to say the least. The splitting of the subcontinent into India and Pakistan was the work of that elite; the horrendous ethnic violence that followed the British departure and the carving away of Pakistan cannot be blamed on the British, the West, or the Man in the Moon. That was the handiwork of the elites, in particular the horrendous Nehru and the somewhat less horrendous but still divisive Mohammed Ali Jinnah.

Nehru and his clan decided to take India in a direction away from the West and strike up friendships with all manner of leftist dictatorships, helping found the anti-US G-77 ("Third World") movement. They never really resigned themselves to the existence of Pakistan and, in essence, decided to make the poor and even more horribly misgoverned Pakistan's life hell. Pakistan was forced to exist with the constant threat from India that it could be terminated at any moment. This helped push Pakistan first towards the West, joining in military agreements with the United States including allowing US military facilities aimed at the USSR; then later, Pakistan tilted towards China, India's great Asian rival. India, in particular under the reign of Nehru's daughter Indira Ghandi, became very close to the USSR, and enjoyed trying to frustrate US objectives wherever and whenever possible. Under Indira, for example, the Indians would not condemn the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia nor years later of Afghanistan. India was very opposed to US efforts to work with Pakistan in support of the anti-Soviet resistance in Afghanistan.

Now to the issue of the "wrong" war. As I state below, we did the right thing by working with Pakistan and the Afghan resistance to expel the USSR from Afghanistan. Once the USSR collapsed, we did what we always seem to do after major victories, we assumed that "history had ended," and could reap the "peace dividend" without fear. Well, of course, Afghanistan quickly fell apart, and the more ruthless radical jihadis, i.e., the Taliban, soon had the country in their grip. I mention below that the Taliban was a creation of the Pakistanis who, operating under the growing influence of Islamists largely funded by the Saudis, also played a role in helping AQ set up shop in Afghanistan.

Throughout the "war on terror" the Pakistanis have played at best an ambivalent game, and usually a duplicitous one. Pakistan's government is a badly splintered one; when I served there, one was never sure with whom one was speaking and making a deal--and it has gotten worse. So, yes, Pakistan is an "enemy" to the extent that their heart is not in the WOT, but it is an enemy with grave divisions and factions that want certain other factions killed or otherwise neutralized. The Pakistani military, for example, as a rule, still relatively jihadi free, does not, despite public statements to the contrary, really object to our drone attacks on militants in the tribal areas. There are wheels within wheels within Matryoska dolls within Matryoska dolls. So, again, for example, one can never be sure what side the powerful ISI (Pakistan's intel service) is on any given day.

By invading Afghanistan in the wake of 9/11, we did the right thing. Taking out the Taliban and the AQ had a powerful impact upon jihadis around the world. They never expected that the US would dare launch an invasion of Afghanistan, that it would be mounted so quickly, and carried out so efficiently. It was a stunner.

Some would argue that we would have done better to invade Pakistan. Much messier objective, and it would not have satisfied what we needed right away, to wit, to knock out AQ's base in Afghanistan and punish its Taliban hosts. If, furthermore, we are going to worry about fighting the wrong war, then we should probably also be talking about invading Saudi Arabia, which is in many ways a much greater threat to the US and the West than is Pakistan. Are we going to do that? Doubt it very much. As I have said many, many times, our secret weapon for dealing with the jihadis is our vast energy reserves. If we frack and drill, go nuclear, dig coal, and just stop putting impediments in the way of our energy independence, much of the money-generated steam will go out of jihadi efforts.

Anyhow, here is what I wrote three years ago. I think it still holds up OK.

May 5, 2011
Pakistani Perfidy and Western Incompetence in the Hunt for Osama
In the long ago 1980s, I spent several years working on Pakistani issues. I lived for two years in Islamabad and Peshawar, travelled all over the country, including in many areas now off-limits, and spent another two years working on Pakistan in Washington and returning frequently there. Those were the Reagan years, and we were working closely (sort of) with the Zia ul-Haq government to push the Soviets out of Afghanistan (more on that below.)

Pakistan is a strange country with a strange history. It is a rump piece, a backwater of the great Indian Hindu civilization, and is wracked by any number of complexes and pathologies. It is a Muslim state founded by one of the most non-Islamic people ever, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, who only reluctantly came to the conclusion that Pakistan should be created. Most of his life he had argued for keeping the Muslims of India within a democratic India. He was intelligent and good looking; dressed well; was not religious; spoke beautiful English; and was more at home in the salons of the well-to-do and educated than he was with the street rabble. He was never clear whether his vision for Pakistan was as a secular or a religious state, and that debate over his intentions still rages in Pakistan with a lot of historical revision undertaken to show the second. A heavy smoker, and, reportedly, a man who liked his Scotch, he died very soon after the creation of Pakistan. He therefore, never saw the country's subsequent humiliations and defeats. The carving away of Bangladesh, gave the lie to the creation myth of Pakistan as THE homeland of the subcontinent's Muslims, as did the fact that India continued to host one of the world's largest Muslim communities. We should note that more Muslims live in India than in either Pakistan or Bangladesh, and do not seem in a hurry to move to either of those "homelands."

Pakistan is and always has been a mess. It is held together just barely by two forces: the military, and hatred of India. Punjabis, Sindhis, Baluchis, Pashtos have little in common except religion, and there are even differences there. The Pakistanis, especially in recent years as Saudi influence has grown, have tended to oppress non-Sunnis, and to institute a copy of Saudi-type Islamic rule. Things have gotten progressively tougher for intellectuals, artists, writers, and women in Pakistan, as well as for Christians, Ahmadis, and Shias (although the Ismaili followers of the wealthy Aga Khan have bought themselves some respite from persecution--money does wonderful things in Pakistan). Most other religious groups have long been driven out, or firmly underground in Pakistan. It is not a democratic country; democratic values run very thin and weak, and even then only among a handful of mostly Western educated elites--many of whom see "democracy" as a great way to get very rich by buying and selling votes, favors, parliamentary majorities, etc. The late Benazir Bhutto, whom I knew quite well, and her extraordinarily corrupt husband, now President of Pakistan, shine as classic examples of that sort of "democratic"elite so beloved by the West.

Pakistan is a weak, resentful state, very envious of the success of India, especially since India freed itself of the horrendous Nehru clan, in particular that evil, murdering, pro-Soviet Indira Gandhi. Islam has done nothing positive for Pakistan. Under Zia ul-Haq, later assassinated along with the US Ambassador, the country became more and more Islamized, became progressively crazier and, frankly, stupider and stupider. It was Pakistan's intelligence service, the corrupt and faction-ridden Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) outfit, working with the Saudis that created the Taliban and, eventually, al Qaida. It was not the CIA, the United States, or Great Britain. That the USA and the UK created those operations is one of those little stories put out by the left and certain others to try to discredit our current efforts against the Taliban and AQ. It was the Pakistanis and the Saudis, not the US and the UK, who created the Taliban and AQ.

I worked in Pakistan at the height of the relationship between the US and Pakistan. Even then, however, we knew not to trust them too much. Zia, after all, did nothing to protect the US Embassy when it was attacked by a mob in 1979, following false local press reports of a US-Israeli attack on Mecca. That mob burned the Embassy, and killed four embassy employees, including a young Marine guard shot in the head by a sniper.

We knew they were double dealing us on the Afghans. We would insist they not support certain groups, they would promise, but then do so anyhow. They also played games with the Iranians, and we knew they were lying about their nuclear program. We reluctantly went along, as you often have to do in the real world, because we had the theory of defeating "one enemy at a time." We, too, did things that we did not tell them about. We were on a mission to destroy the Soviet Union, which at that time, and rightly so, was seen as the major threat to the United States, including to our homeland. That mission succeeded, and I still think we did the right thing by focussing on that mission. I am proud of the very small role I played in helping bring about that defeat.

Every victory, of course, brings consequences which successors must handle. The defeats of Germany and Japan were the right things to do, although those then opened opportunities for the Soviet Union and later Communist China. Our defeating Iraq in two wars benefitted Iran, but that doesn't mean it wasn't right to defeat Iraq.

Anyhow, bottom line, don't trust Pakistan. That government is ridden with factions, corrupt beyond belief, full of liars, and of people out for themselves and their families, not for the "country." Did Pakistan know that Osama had his man-cave in Abbottabad? I am sure parts of Pakistan's government did; almost certainly some officials were bought and paid for. I have been to Abbottabad many times in the past. It is inconceivable that a sprawling compound could go up in this sleepy and quaint town, without questions asked by Pakistani military, police, or intelligence services, or even by local politicians out to get some Baksheesh from an obviously rich potential benefactor who had just moved into town.

This episode, sadly, also raises some embarrassing questions which I have not read or heard asked about the West's intel services. When I worked in Pakistan, and this was well before high-tech drones, Google, and all the rest of that stuff, somebody with our Embassy, or with our friends at the neighboring British High Commission, would have commented on this compound, and undertaken an effort to find out who lived there, how it was being paid for, etc.

Since 9/11/2001, we have undertaken a multi-billion dollar manhunt for Osama, a hunt that focussed largely on Pakistan. It never occurred to anybody that he or some other very big fish might be in that complex? Had we become so enamored of the "he is living in a cave in the mountains" scenario that we couldn't conceive that this rich, spoiled, cowardly, and not very healthy man might be living in relative comfort somewhere more, shall we say, urbane? I hope I am wrong, and that the true history of the effort will show that somebody on our side asked about that compound. I am afraid, however, that this episode just shows how degraded we have let our intel services become, and, most notably, the poverty of our HUMINT capabilities. That degradation is understandable coming as it does after decades of attacks, mostly by the Democrats, on our covert capabilities. If the bad guy doesn't have a cellphone or internet we don't know who he is or what he is doing? That is a lesson our enemies, I am sure, have noticed, and that is not cheerful news.

W. Lewis Amselem, long time US Foreign Service Officer; now retired; have served all over the world and under all sorts of conditions. Convinced the State Department needs to be drastically slashed and reformed so that it will no longer pose a threat to the national interests of the United States.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 25 Apr 2014 02:18

anmol wrote:Following article is from a retired US Foreign Service guy's blog who have served in Pakistan/Sri Lanka (there are wikileak cables on him "site:wikileaks.org Lewis Amselem"). I think he is responding to the NYT report, and questions on the "wrong war".... The article should be only about Pakistan... but starts with India, how India never really existed, its elites, Nehru, Indira. etc.

He doesn't really say it, but it is clear that from US POV defeat of Germany, Japan, Iraq unleashed Russia China and Iran. Soooo "wrong war" because the "right war" will open up opportunities for India.

Wednesday, April 23, 2014
On Pakistan: A Rerun with an UpdateStates.

I posted this comment:
So India didn't exist as a collective civilizational consciousness before the British "unified" it, is it? My my, what scholarship. Then perhaps the morning prayers recited by Hindus for millennia, naming the 7 major rivers across the Subcontinent and the 4 boundaries of its diamond-shaped isolation from the rest of Eurasia must have also actually been written by British colonial officers in a previous avatar?

India knows that the US has been too clever for its OWN good - leave alone the good of India or other Asian countries. The US connived in Pakistan's nuclear program, as Abdul Qadeer Khan stole his blueprints from the Netherlands. The Dutch are on record stating that the CIA asked them to get off Mr. Khan's trail. These are just some of the shenanigans that go to the credit of the US and the wars it chooses to fight, the clients it chooses to indulge at the expense of real friends it chooses not to make.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Apr 2014 02:44

Agnimitra he needs to be countered on the recent BS and not the British nonsense. JLN had to seek others help when US was arming TSP in double foru letter treaties against India!

And when he wants to talk about Pakistan why bring in India. Looks like Fraudian slip!

And what did he do to educate his folks back in Duplicity? Keep them in the fog at Foggy Bottom?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 25 Apr 2014 06:32

VikasRaina wrote: Indian Babudom is a labyrinth which even babus cant fathom anymore.

I suspect the situation has become so bad even babus or stepping on each other's ties and bribes are happening in big feedback loop while no work is going forward. Like the mirror worlds or a doughnut - left edge wraps around to the right edge and top edge wraps around to the bottom edge - like one of those old CRT shoot them up games where one fires a gun right and the bullets appear to be coming from the left.

member_28502 · Post by **member_28502** » 25 Apr 2014 09:14

remember the CRT is facing you what is right to you is left to it

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 25 Apr 2014 09:15

Ha!ha! Ellen "Bury-her-in-April" of the New York Slime wants India to have a soft poofter like Man Mohan Singh,arch Quisling and lackey of Uncle Sam,who did everything to promote Uncle Sam;s agenda,N-deal,expensive obsolete US N-plants eternally dependent upon US /Western N-fuel,GM crops for Monsanto,FDI in retail for Walmart,and Yanqui defence deals galore to weaken and control India's independent defence posture and before I forget....a "peace in our time" with Pak,handing over Siachen to it and allowing the gradual take-away of Kashmir and the valley through "open borders",an "open" welcome to the hordes of mercenary jihadis,plus doing nothing while Pak committed genocide in Baluchistan.How convenient for Uncle Sam.

A nation of barely a few hundred years that is the worst war criminal on the planet,the only power to have used nuclear weapons against innocent civilians,not once but twice,has the arrogance,the audacity,the temerity,the effrontery to lecture to India ,a nation spanning millennia ,whose offshore underwater civilisations have been carbon dated to 12000BC,that has seen kingdoms and empires of the world rise and fall like autumn leaves ,the kind of leader it should elect?!

As for the New York Slime's cretinous corresspondent,I say bury her cretinous comments under a pile of pigshit.

member_28440 · Post by **member_28440** » 25 Apr 2014 15:11

New WikiLeaks Cable reveals Subramaniyan Swamy to be a US Agent

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 25 Apr 2014 16:38

Bodhita- it's worth investigating. But nowhere is it said he was an agent. People meet and in diplomatic circles chatter gets overheard and info is circulated. Which a dutiful officer reports back. It's part and parcel. Why this jumping to conclusion prematurely. Also, people in governable hear threats and rumours about attacks numerous times. Only some are acted upon as most of them are just rumours. If what is said is true then I would tend to believe that this was a system failure rather than actual massive. For example imagine the charter that intelligence circles would be right now hearing about of threats to disrupt Indian elections. I am sure that there would be thousands a day with claims from the reds to the saffron to LET to the society for penguin preservation in the sahara desert. Practically only a fraction of these can be even investigated. Rest you judge and ignore

Rajiv Lather · Post by **Rajiv Lather** » 25 Apr 2014 17:19

Bodhita wrote:New WikiLeaks Cable reveals Subramaniyan Swamy to be a US Agent

In political circles this has been known since long... I have been hearing it since 1980s. A real slimy character !

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 25 Apr 2014 17:31

In fact anyone who crosses the seas is a Bhrasht onlee. Phoren Agint. This has been known for 1,700,000,000 years, even before there was a sea. If they also have a brain, that is a double sin. One should sit around scratching one's (brain) to be a good non-Agint.

Oh! Now I have read the "cable".

This calls for our unique UBCNews Poop-Scoop onlee:
Observe:
1) This was 1977? Mrs Gandhi lived to be PM again, until she was shot down in cold blood by the treacherous "guard" sh*ts. So the whole notion of "terminal cancer" in 1977 was BS. So is the notion that the election was called early "in view of her failing health". She ran for election to PM again several years later!!! So whose agint was Swamy if he told the US Ophishials what they could have heard in any Dilli urinal ( meaning by putting their ear against their own Embassy Wall).

2) I am considering publishing a set of 10 volumes of statements made by Subrahmaniam Swamy in the USA and Ulan Bator. All 400% genuine. These will CLEARY SHOW IN CAPITAL LETTERS AND SANS-SERIF FIXED-WIDTH FONT (just like the Wikipedia cable) how Sonia Gandy is really a KGB agint turned by the Italian Mafia to work for the Mossad and MI-6 against the CIA with the help of ISI, but she is REALLY a Martian who came to Earth by way of the Andromeda Galaxy and Indian Airlines from the au pair program in England.

3) And that photo of BO standing with SS is the clincher. IIRC, that was taken on his most recent visit to USA - which came long AFTER the commie houris in Harvardistan (Diana Eeek etc) got him away from his summer course. It was a clear demonstration of GOTUS contempt for the Harvardistan types.

Oh! And it is TOOOOTALLY coincidental, Vidhi onlee, that this article appeared now, hain?

Just out of curiosity, what Swamy a Central Minister in 1977 in IG's guvrmand? I mean, to have inside knowledge that he could urileak to Paco?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 25 Apr 2014 18:21

Subramanian Swamy ‏@Swamy39 1h

I have checked with Wikileaks . There is no reference of any CIA briefing by me of any official secrets. So I am filing a defamation case.

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 25 Apr 2014 19:03

anmol wrote:Following article is from a retired US Foreign Service guy's blog [he have served in Pakistan/Sri Lanka and there are many wikileak cables on him, google: "site:wikileaks.org Lewis Amselem"].

W. Lewis Amselem, long time US Foreign Service Officer; now retired; have served all over the world and under all sorts of conditions. Convinced the State Department needs to be drastically slashed and reformed so that it will no longer pose a threat to the national interests of the United States.

[/quote]

I am not too sure... but I am thinking it might be some other hair-brained idiot passing off as a for sec. I cant really imagine a for sec guy talking this way. the way the person intersperses cold logic seamlessly (& shamelessly) with incredulous paranoid stuff is pretty telling.

Check his blog entry on Gabriel Marquez. Shameful. [Called relatively positive news of something]

this is some random idiot who has a gripe with everything in the world. Will perhaps continue to do so till the person gets to his death bed. No use commenting on entries like these. Silence is a powerful weapon. Ignoring these sites is too.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 25 Apr 2014 19:16

Let's see if this gets past their "Moderate" moderators: came by email from whoever posted it.

From User YoMomma:
A little use of the gray cells would have saved you a lot of trouble.
1. Indira Gandhi obviously did not have cancer - she lived another 7 years until murdered
2. Swamy was not a member if IG's cabinet in 1977 - so he had no inside info to give.
3. There was nothing useful in knowing that the PM has health issues - every PM has health issues.
4. There was no cable.
Enjoy the defamation case!

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 26 Apr 2014 00:19

EconomicTimes ‏@EconomicTimes 2h

General Electric, Westinghouse keen to develop 12K MW of nuclear power in India http://ow.ly/waiOu

Munna seems had promised 12,000 MW capacity contracts to the Americans.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 26 Apr 2014 01:51

AmberG: I give you a magic number -- 24C12006249.

habal · Post by **habal** » 26 Apr 2014 13:50

~~Can anybody name which species this creature belongs to ?~~

The US State Department itself is becoming a news organization, packaging propaganda messages into an easily consumable format, and accusing others of propaganda is at the very least hypocritical, media critic Danny Schechter told RT.

Following Kerry’s attack on RT over its coverage of the Ukraine crisis, on Thursday the US State Department posted its own version of events in a video entitled “Sanctions: How Did We Get Here?” – blaming Russia for the whole crisis.

http://rt.com/op-edge/155024-state-depa ... da-agency/

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 26 Apr 2014 18:21

Shivakumar ‏@cshivakumar 1h

Intellectual Property Appellate Board has hit out at US Chamber of Commerce for urging USTR to downgrade India status as worst IPR offender.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Apr 2014 00:12

Facts not checked: just posting something sent by email to UBCNews:

Congressman Keith Hakim Ellison, the first Muslim congressman in America, insisted on swearing his oath of office to the United States on a Koran, .. (etc etc: goes into HoKo content..)

Upon his induction into Congress,
Ellison received over $13,000 from ISNA (Islamic Society of North America), a Muslim Brotherhood affiliate and an unindicted co-conspirator in the largest terrorism funding trial in U.S. history - the Holy Land Foundation Hamas funding trial - to attend Hajj
.

In 2012, when 5 brave members of Congress - Bachmann, Gohmert, Rooney, Franks and Westmoreland - exposed the Muslim Brotherhood infiltration of the U.S. government at the highest levels of our national security apparatus and beyond, Ellison led the pack that attacked the Bachmann 5 and made sure that their calls for investigations were ignored. This despite court documents, media reports, public statements, etc., that clearly delineated specific individuals with clearly documented ties to this treasonous group.

Ellison and others like him are instruments of the Muslim Brotherhood to take down the Western world - America, Canada, India, Australia, Europe, New Zealand, etc - and institute a Global Caliphate under the Shari'ah.

This is WHY he and his fellow travelers in government are attempting to sabotage the election of Narendra Modi. (Granted, some of the signers are not educated about the situation and are blindly going along with colleagues for one favor or another).

In 2004, the FBI discovered a document - The General Strategic Plan for the Muslim Brotherhood in North America - written in 1987 - that outlined the strategy to be used to subdue our continent. One of the strategies was to increase Muslim participation in all facets of our government. Keith Hakim Ellison is one of the cogs in the wheel to carry out that plan.

Janet Levy,
Los Angeles