Indian Railways Thread

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 07 Apr 2014 11:00

Saliet points for Railways in BJP manifesto

Railway

1.)Indian Railways is the lifeline of the country. It will be modernized, strengthened and upgraded to serve passengers as well as the country's economy. This will be done in a planned manner focusing on national development, rather than political exigency.

2.)Hinterland will be connected to the ports through strategic new Rail networks.

3.) Agri Rail network will be established - with Train Wagons designed to cater to the specific needs
of perishable Agricultural products like milk and vegetables as well as light weight wagons for salt
movement.

4.)Tourist Rail - including Pilgrimage Rail.

5.)Railways Modernization, inducting of state-of-the-art technology.(Hope this includes irctc also)

6.)Special focus on developing skilled human resources to meet future demand.

7.)Prioritize Safety and invest in long required overhaul of stressed infrastructure, strict norms and
warning systems.

8.)Modernize and equip all stations with requisite infrastructure and public utilities.

9.)Convert all unmanned crossings into manned crossings in a phased manner.

10.)Initiate R&D for indigenous railways, coach design and signals.

11.) We will launch Diamond Quadrilateral project - of High Speed Train network (bullet train).

Overall seems to be nice, broad based with feel good factors.
Should have also included starting suburban train network for Bangalore and seperate Rail HQ for mumbai network. Privatization not on present agenda considering rail employees are also voters.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 08 Apr 2014 00:27

Indian Railways network in 1909

manju · Post by **manju** » 10 Apr 2014 03:04

Once when I had the usual problem with the website.. too slow.. I booked rail tkt thru airtel money on my phone. It was quick and easy.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 11 Apr 2014 11:14

stupid web designing , they have disable the logout link

Madhusudhan · Post by **Madhusudhan** » 13 Apr 2014 15:36

Had an opportunity to travel on China's High-Speed-Rail. The stations and trains are extremely impressive. Covered Beijing to Shanghai in 5 hours (1300 kms). Would be awesome if Chennai to Bombay could be covered in 5 hrs by train!

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 23 Apr 2014 14:32

what kind of partnership IR has with cleartrip ???? IR has put an announcement asking all international customers to use cleartrip.com

saip · Post by **saip** » 23 Apr 2014 19:08

When I tried using it -- cleartrip.com -- it is asking me to register and then link my account to the Railway account. It did not even provide the info of seat availability. So what is the relation, I too would like to know.

Sravan · Post by **Sravan** » 06 May 2014 13:42

Why India cannot develop a decent railway network.

http://youradhikar.com/rtis/advanced_ra ... nality.php

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 May 2014 23:03

suchalya revamp should begin with IR! This should happen within the next year itself.

http://www.theweekendleader.com/Innovat ... flush.html

http://www.indianrailways.gov.in/railwa ... 2_CMEs.pdf

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/opi ... 812330.ece

electrification of all routes is the next agenda!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 May 2014 23:14

^I still think that toilet needs review for services - hand held bidets, toilet positioning and rearrangement, one-way valves, etc. some time they need to spend on aesthetics as well.. cleaner looking toilets has become mandatory for trains.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 May 2014 15:18

http://www.toilet-guru.com/train.php

take your pick. but other than china pretty much none country in the world has the heavy use multi day travel problem we have.
the czech toilet looks sturdy.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 07 May 2014 18:31

Hmm! it looks like the major enforcement is not using the toilet in stations. It would be quite the battle getting our janta to follow that rule. But it would be a start. Maybe an automatic retention system till the train attains speed could also be considered.As with everything else in desh the sheer overwhelming numbers make any system a challenge. It is easier to design a system for 20 passengers per coach on day train than 80 passenger per coach.

Instead of the stupid use poo campaign maybe unicef could focus on something that might actually be useful.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 May 2014 19:47

we have 72 pax per coach on journeys upto 3 days. nobody has this time x density problem. I suspect the long haul trains from china east coast to interior and the trans siberian trains have far fewer pax per coach and the chinese trains are anyways increasing speed by leaps and bounds - they have two levels of HSR already one goes 200k and other around 350k.

I see no option but storage toilet or that retention system thing but which will foul the tracks royally within city limits as the train picks up some speed. if the poo poo is released at a higher speed as the train goes further away, the air pressure under the wagon will disperse it far and wide spraying it like wet cement all under the carriage and the wheels leaving a smelly crusty mess for the people who work on the wheels, suspension and batteries back at GHQ by walking down that recessed tunnel on the ground between the tracks at the depot.

imo go for storage, and make sure some automated vacuum sealed cleaning system is used at major halts to make sure the good stuff doesnt backflow and created "issues" sometimes seen in aircraft lol

some ppl actually prefer to use it at stations as the rocking and howling wind scares older infirm people, women and children

during my college days sometimes the end of the bogies would lurch almost 6 inchs up and 12 inches laterally ... trying to squat down and do it was quite a feat I realize now.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 26 May 2014 20:14

UP train accident: Death toll rises to 40, over 100 injured; Modi offers condolences

An express train slammed into a parked freight train in Uttar Pradesh on Monday, killing at least 40 people and reducing cars to a heap of torn and twisted metal, officials said.

The Gorakhpur Express passenger train was traveling at high speed and slammed on its brakes in an attempt to stop, but plowed into the train sitting on the tracks near a railway station in Uttar Pradesh state, district magistrate Bharat Lal said.

Six of the cars on the express train derailed, with one car for unreserved general seating taking the brunt of the impact and containing most of the 40 casualties so far counted, senior police officer Amrendra Sainger said.

“It has been reduced to a mangled iron mesh,” he said. “We do not know as how many people were there.” While the car seats 72, such trains are often filled beyond capacity.

Villagers were the first to reach the scene after the accident about 10 kilometers (6 miles) from the nearest road.

Very sad and my condolences to the departed ones.

This accident shows how much work is needed to bring Railways on track. Safety had taken back seat over the years.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 27 May 2014 16:13

Singha wrote:we have 72 pax per coach on journeys upto 3 days. nobody has this time x density problem. I suspect the long haul trains from china east coast to interior and the trans siberian trains have far fewer pax per coach and the chinese trains are anyways increasing speed by leaps and bounds - they have two levels of HSR already one goes 200k and other around 350k.

I see no option but storage toilet or that retention system thing but which will foul the tracks royally within city limits as the train picks up some speed. if the poo poo is released at a higher speed as the train goes further away, the air pressure under the wagon will disperse it far and wide spraying it like wet cement all under the carriage and the wheels leaving a smelly crusty mess for the people who work on the wheels, suspension and batteries back at GHQ by walking down that recessed tunnel on the ground between the tracks at the depot.

imo go for storage, and make sure some automated vacuum sealed cleaning system is used at major halts to make sure the good stuff doesnt backflow and created "issues" sometimes seen in aircraft lol

some ppl actually prefer to use it at stations as the rocking and howling wind scares older infirm people, women and children during my college days sometimes the end of the bogies would lurch almost 6 inchs up and 12 inches laterally ... trying to squat down and do it was quite a feat I realize now.

Somehow missed reading this post till now. Couldn't help recalling an amusing anecdote from my days in Pune, working for the Tatas. A young purchase assistant was sent on a maiden trip to Bombay to pick up some stuff from the head office needed in Pune on an urgent basis. He was a strapling Maratha lad straight out of some college in interior Marathwada region. Train journey itself must have been a novelty for him up until then. To be travelling on the famous Deccan Queen was the ultimate dream come true. Back then, Deccan Queen was the fastest train and Rajdhanis hadn't even been introduced on the Indian Railway network. We asked him about what it was like to be travelling on the famous Deccan Queen. He said the train was so fast on its home stretch between Lonavla and Pune that he couldn't even pee once inside the toilet. "mee lagvi pan karoon shakat nahin" or some thing to that effect in marathi!

Adrija · Post by **Adrija** » 31 May 2014 20:30

Gurujan log,

Shri Modi has asked for each Ministry to publish a 10 point agenda for 45 days and 100 days.......any thoughts on what these should be for the Railways?

A few thoughts from my side

Passenger Safety & Convenience
1. White paper & Action plan for Installation of ACD/ similar safety devices across all trains (45 days); action initiated within 100 days
2. Status update and time bound action plan on completion of "Adarsh station" program (45 days)
3. Action plan on installation of contained toilets on all passenger trains (100 days)
4. Status update on action plan of elimination of all unmanned crossings (45 days) with completion commitment within 36 months

Operational Improvement
5. Status update and action plan on completion of Project Uni-gauge nationwide (45 days)
6. Implementation of automated signalling network across entire IR (100 days) to enable speeds to 300 kmph
7. Track renewal and upgradation program published (100 days), commitment to complete with 48 months
8. Introduction of schedule bound Ro-Ro services between Del-Mumbai (45 days), and extension to rest of metros (100 days)

Modernization
9. Diamond Quadrilateral program (freight and passenger) action plan within 100 days
10. Publication of a draft future operating model for public discussion - identifying which operational areas IR will continue to keep inhouse, which it will induct outside capital (but control operations) and which all it would outsource in terms of both investment and operations

Any thoughts?

TIA

Saral · Post by **Saral** » 02 Jun 2014 03:26

Singha wrote:some ppl actually prefer to use it at stations as the rocking and howling wind scares older infirm people, women and children during my college days sometimes the end of the bogies would lurch almost 6 inchs up and 12 inches laterally ... trying to squat down and do it was quite a feat I realize now.

Squatting is good for core stability. I kinda liked having a dump at 60 mph with all the rattling and shaking. Increased the quality of the dump. Different strokes, I guess. Pretty sure I can do it now (but haven't traveled on long distance trains for many years). Idea of doing it in a station is kinda disgusting.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 02 Jun 2014 05:55

When I was a young boy, one of the highlights was taking 15up and 16dn G.T. Express( The Grand Trunk Express because people did travel with grand trunks those days,

) The travel back to the homeland took forever. But there were two highlights I would not miss, the huge Roundhouse at Bitragunta with so many WG's with up steam, 235 km from Chennai, with the huge sign, " Bitragunta Home of the Iron Horse". Going towards Chennai it would be on the left after the halt at Bitragunta. Well now there is a new book for all those old time IR aficionados, It is called Footprints on the Track. It has a picture of the Bitragunta Round House and tons of stories. The second section I would not miss, the Palghat Gap, through Walayar. I have seen recent videos of it, great and all that, WAP-7 and all that, but the sight of a WG chugging through Walayar is gone forever. The station was also smaller, almost swallowed by the surrounding jungle those days.

Footprints on the Track

Bitragunta Roundhouse

Uttam · Post by **Uttam** » 03 Jun 2014 18:33

Mumbai Jostles With Jaipur in India’s Belated Metro Push

Add up all the metro-rail track in India -- population, 1.2 billion -- and it’s still less than in New York City.

Now, after decades of neglect, local leaders have embarked on India’s most ambitious urban construction project: 22 cities plan to build or extend subways at a projected cost of about 2 trillion rupees ($33 billion), according to Bloomberg News calculations based on official estimates.

Newly elected Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who has promised bullet trains and reduced dependence on cars, is set to give a push to infrastructure investment. The need is urgent in a country already choking on emissions and congestion. The Asian Development Bank estimates that overloaded roads shave at least 2 percent off the economic output of India and every other Asian nation.

By 2031, the population of India’s biggest cities will almost triple to 277 million -- more than the current population of Indonesia, the world’s fourth-most populous nation -- from 108 million in 2001, Barclays Bank Plc projects.

“We are way behind,” said Rajeev Jyoti, head of the railway business at Larsen & Toubro Ltd. (LT), which is building the metro in Hyderabad. “Mass-transit systems have to be thought of 30 years in advance. In India, it is always about just playing catch up,” said Jyoti, who previously headed Bombardier Inc. (BBD/B)’s transport unit in India.

...................

manju · Post by **manju** » 05 Jun 2014 10:27

I tried booking tkts at irctc.co.in today between 10-11 am. I think this is peak hours as people try to book tatkal tkts.

It appears they are trying to fix the site but I could not log in... still struggling. Any tips to get a tatkal seat.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 05 Jun 2014 13:45

manju wrote: It appears they are trying to fix the site but I could not log in... still struggling. Any tips to get a tatkal seat.

This is one thing which even Lord Brahma would not be able to fix in his life time

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 05 Jun 2014 20:26

Is TCS the vendor for the IRCTC site?

Because the rush of adrenaline that one feels during a tatkal ticket booking has only one parallel...booking of slots for appointment through the passport e seva website (which of course a TCS misadventure).

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 05 Jun 2014 20:53

^^Yes not on the reason you mention. It is done by CRIS whose vendor was CMC that was taken over by TCS management when it was disinvested. Passport application is likely to be a new platform developed by TCS whereas the IRCTC (I heard from my cousin long time back who used to work there) was that the backend ticketing software is a very legacy one system adopted from an Italy that uses flat files and fortran or something similar. Don't think they have reengineered the backend yet because it is too risky to touch

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 05 Jun 2014 21:45

^^

IIRC (did a project few years ago for them) the CRIS stuff is indeed flat files manipulated by C (not sure about the Fortran bit), running over UNIX with a curses interface.
The stuff is solid.
Its also true that they have not re-engineered the backend.
However, what they can definitely do is to wrap the stuff with a Web Service and throw it open for 3rd party ticketing software.

The IRCTC site still doesn't do something very basic like composing an itinerary over multiple segments between two points (so called break journeys) if a direct point to point connection is not available or does not exist.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 05 Jun 2014 22:20

The website issue is in reality a side track. Are ANY tatkal tickets not being filled because of this issue? If there are 10 tatkal tickets available, does it matter if CRIS has 1000 or 10000 connection capability from a system perspective as long as those 10 tickets get filled? That just proves that CRIS is performing in the optimum fashion.

The issue is shortage of trains. If there was no shortage of trains, there would have been no tatkal and the rush of tickets would have spread across the day.

I dont see any difference between hooh-hawing of harvard to laloo for his financial gimmicks and people here cribbing about CRIS.

PS: before any body points at me, lets just say I have already lost my hair trying to get tickets there.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 05 Jun 2014 22:37

IRCTC site != CRIS.

The http://www.indianrail.gov.in/ site works perfect even under peak hour.

Oh maybe cribbing about CMC a.ka. TCS will not allowed after we discover that its not CRIS that was being cribbed about in the first place.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 06 Jun 2014 21:04

After your post, I was speaking to someone in the know on passport seva. He was mentioning that the appointment system has been corrupted based on instruction from the babudom through backend access to servers. Agents are there in the market who can get you an appointment easily for Rs500 and specific date and time of your choice for Rs 5000.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Jun 2014 09:37

something is odd about the cable stay design.. i don't get a robust feeling with it.. anyone?

arun · Post by **arun** » 08 Jun 2014 09:59

Mumbai's long awaited 11.4 km long Versova - Andheri- Ghatkopar line opens:

Maharashtra CM Prithviraj Chavan flags off Mumbai Metro service amid tariff row

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Jun 2014 17:14

yeah! it hits technical snag!

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 09 Jun 2014 10:45

quality of work doesnt look good

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 09 Jun 2014 15:46

SaiK wrote: something is odd about the cable stay design.. i don't get a robust feeling with it.. anyone?

Its been reinforced well no doubt, issue is with the reliability design of the pylons & its load distribution on the lower section.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Jun 2014 20:46

bingo!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 12 Jun 2014 12:29

Delhi lieutenant governor okays high-speed rail links to Meerut, Panipat and Alwar

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 12 Jun 2014 13:16

SRoy wrote:^^
However, what they can definitely do is to wrap the stuff with a Web Service and throw it open for 3rd party ticketing software.

IIRC its already in place. You can book train tickets from third party travel sites in India. Makemytrip has this provision.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 Jun 2014 14:04

Sridhar K wrote:^^Yes not on the reason you mention. It is done by CRIS whose vendor was CMC that was taken over by TCS management when it was disinvested. Passport application is likely to be a new platform developed by TCS whereas the IRCTC (I heard from my cousin long time back who used to work there) was that the backend ticketing software is a very legacy one system adopted from an Italy that uses flat files and fortran or something similar. Don't think they have reengineered the backend yet because it is too risky to touch

IIRC, the Hyderabad R&D team in CMC then used its own in-house developed DBMS rather than any off-the-shelf product. They seemed to have a disdain for all those products. The code was developed using C in the 80s. It was implemented on VAX/VMS systems.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 12 Jun 2014 20:31

Not sure if its still valid today (or valid even back then) but a while back a colleague had mentioned that folks coming out of CRIS are as techie as they can get. Can come up with syntax even when woken up in night. Was told that they wouldnt have access to internet and most of the knowledge accrued was through thorough scrutiny of books and from seniors.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Jun 2014 20:32

Klaus wrote:
SaiK wrote: something is odd about the cable stay design.. i don't get a robust feeling with it.. anyone?
Its been reinforced well no doubt, issue is with the reliability design of the pylons & its load distribution on the lower section.

Good catch Saik. It is actually an interesting structure and quite uncommon.

Cable stayed bridges, are a very very well understood and also a very fault tolerant design. That is why they are so popular these days, esp. with the new high tensile steels these days. FWIW I don't have a problem with it.

The build quality looks adequate for the purpose, which is a low speed 80-100 kmph max, metro line. No need to over spend for uber quality unless needed.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 13 Jun 2014 09:40

SSridhar wrote:The code was developed using C in the 80s. It was implemented on VAX/VMS systems.

Yogi_G wrote:Not sure if its still valid today (or valid even back then) but a while back a colleague had mentioned that folks coming out of CRIS are as techie as they can get.

The old IR reservation system should be treated as a marvel like we had the Konkan Railways. My understanding was this was a totally indegenous attempt, and it did a fantastic job. When pretty much India (of the 80s) did not even see a Computer/PC imagine coming up with a fully networked system which allowed "any where booking" **. I remember a British traveller (Michael Palin??) commenting that this facility to book tickets between two places; from a totally different place was some thing unique. Add to the complexity the number of PRS, inter-connectivity as well as redundancy, disaster recovery plans etc. etc. And this comes from a GoI establishment (and not the much trumpted Most Admired Co, Vegetable Oil Co. and various other IT/Vity Majors and Colonels).

The IRCTC on the other hand piggy-backed to the PRS systems only. If I get it right they are just using the existing frame work of the PRS systems. And the scalability issues may be because of that.

** Don't know how many of you remember this. During the hey-days of PRS, the reservation counters used to have TV sets displaying the availability position. This was eagerly watched by the people standing in queue. The prayers was always that hope some other bloke does NOT reserve the ticket, when I am still on the queue.

BTW, plan for a recent trip made me study the various reservation quotas (and codes) in IR. And that scheme also made sense now. IR is trying to have a level playing field with various Remote Location WL, General WL etc. The Waiting List codes explained.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 13 Jun 2014 12:25

Others think of rail coach comfort, India of vandals

It is like other things singular to the country: Utility and comfort may define the interiors of railway coaches the world over, but vandalism dictates how train fixtures are designed and installed in India.

Lot of the mischief seems to happen in AC coaches, which means by well heeled passengers.