Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 21 Apr 2014

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Jun 2014 16:37

anupmisra, IMHO, this is going to have a big impact on the situation in the region. As Kerry says, Pakistan may be a 'key player' if not a 'very, very key player'. Iran wants to join with the US in attacking the Sunni ISIS forces which may be contrary to what Pakistan & KSA want. The US, for all its efforts to support these terrorists in Syria, should now feel threatened in Iraq and its interests are directly confronted by the ISIS. All its efforts, which were unnecessary in the first place when it illegally attacked Iraq and killed Saddam Hussein and his ministers, are crumbling and rapidly too. We know that Pakistanis are part of the ISIS. Pakistan must be rubbing its hands in glee at the developing situation. The US is withdrawing/reducing its force levels in Afghanistan, it will have to take its eyes off that country due to developments in Iraq/Syria, there will be tensions in the US-KSA relationship, Iran-KSA will see heightened tension etc. Generally, a confused and a conflictual situation in the region is welcomed by TSP because that is when it can sell its wares, make its demands, perform perfidious acts and generally goes to bed with everyone at direct cost to India. The only consistent stand in all these threads as far as Pakistan is concerned will be its 'enduring hostility' with India. So, it may attempt cause some damage to India through an audacious terror strike when everyone is looking somewhere else and also hoping that the US could put enough pressure on India not to escalate matters further in view of great danger to global stability in West Asia, as it did after 13/12/2001, 14/5/2002 and 26/11/2008.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Jun 2014 16:51

So, Nawaz Sharif goes in appeal against allowing Musharraf to leave the country. Will Gen. Shareif do the honours? Nawaz Sharif will have the distinction of being the only PM deposed twice in a coup.

Musharraf's name on ECL - Govt challenges SHC ruling in apex court - DAWN

The federal government on Saturday challenged the Sindh High Court's ruling which had struck down its order of preventing retired General Pervez Musharraf from leaving the country.

Attorney General Pakistan Salman Aslam Butt filed an appeal in the Supreme Court against the ruling of the high court which ordered the removal of Musharraf's name from the exit control list.

The appeal requests the court to not allow the removal of Musharraf's name from the list and continue travel restrictions on the former military ruler.

The attorney general has contended that the federal government could not take the risk of allowing the former president to leave the country because there was a great incentive for him to flee in view of a treason case that involved the death penalty.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 14 Jun 2014 20:06

http://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/ ... 227555.htm

John Kerry
Secretary of State
London, United Kingdom
June 13, 2014

SECRETARY KERRY: National Security Advisor Aziz and I are old friends who have worked on these issues for a long time together. And obviously Pakistan is very, very key now, has been for 70 years, but now with the transition in Afghanistan, with the new government in India, with certain challenges that we’re both facing in terms of counterterrorism – we also have major economic issues; energy is a huge challenge in Pakistan. So we have a lot to discuss, and particularly at this moment I think it’s good that we have a chance to be able to meet. Thank you.

MR. AZIZ: Well, I was here for this conference on ending sexual violence in the cases of conflict. And when I saw Secretary Kerry was coming – so I think there’s a very good chance to meet again and review all the issues that you mentioned. And also we had the Strategic Dialogue with the U.S. in March, and it’s sort of always useful to follow up to see what progress has been made, what more needs to be done. And so lots of things are happening in our region, so this is a very good chance and I’m grateful for this opportunity.

SECRETARY KERRY: Thank you, sir.

What does the new government in India have to do with anything US-Pakistan??????

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Jun 2014 20:17

Anujan wrote:Yes the PAF fellow turned jihadi interview is illuminating. People are going from the armed forces to jihadi outfits for training. They are also embedded into jihadi outfits. For example when Mullah Nazir picked up a fight with his co yahoos, army commandoes fought side by side with his yahoos. On top of that the yahoos are a lot more principled in their focus to bring true sharia without kufr actions like taking money from US or drinking alcohol.

Now why would a Pakistan army brother want to fight his jihadi brother? Better idea would be to join ranks and overthrow the jahil generals.

It means despite the TSPA motto of "Jihad-e-fistula" hey are jihadi enough and the momeen join the jihadi camps for refresher courses.

Braduel in his "History of Civilizations" writes the Pakis will turn towards Middle East once their is a firm response from India to discourage their Eastward lust.

Looks like Kerrorist is finding new uses for them.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 14 Jun 2014 20:18

A_Gupta wrote:http://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/ ... 227555.htm

John Kerry
Secretary of State
London, United Kingdom
June 13, 2014

SECRETARY KERRY: National Security Advisor Aziz and I are old friends who have worked on these issues for a long time together. And obviously Pakistan is very, very key now, has been for 70 years, but now with the transition in Afghanistan, with the new government in India, with certain challenges that we’re both facing in terms of counterterrorism – we also have major economic issues; energy is a huge challenge in Pakistan. So we have a lot to discuss, and particularly at this moment I think it’s good that we have a chance to be able to meet. Thank you.

MR. AZIZ: Well, I was here for this conference on ending sexual violence in the cases of conflict. And when I saw Secretary Kerry was coming – so I think there’s a very good chance to meet again and review all the issues that you mentioned. And also we had the Strategic Dialogue with the U.S. in March, and it’s sort of always useful to follow up to see what progress has been made, what more needs to be done. And so lots of things are happening in our region, so this is a very good chance and I’m grateful for this opportunity.

SECRETARY KERRY: Thank you, sir.
What does the new government in India have to do with anything US-Pakistan??????

Comes under shared challenges. Words usually reveal intentions. Deep taqiya is hard.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 14 Jun 2014 21:01

I have a CT to make by connecting dots of Karachi airport attack and sudden ISIS take over of 1/3 of Iraq.

- Saudi had planned ISIS for a long back and they factored Iran's intervention once ISIS start attacking Shia's holy sites in Iraq.
- What if Iran's backed Shia forces get a major success over ISIS.
- To counter Iran, ISIS or KSA needs maal.
- KSA does not want to move their existing maal and had requested fresh one from Pak.
- Since Pak military establishments are under surveillance, Pak wanted to use civilian infra to transport maal.
- Some TTP sympathizers in ISI/Pak passed that info to TTP.
- TTP want that maal for its own use.
- That is why TTP attacked twice Karachi's cold storage or hangers.
- Relatively small damages to airplanes is collateral damage.
- TTP able to gut down whole hangers and godowns. Except an engine blow and some holes to planes, planes were relatively safe compared to LTTE attack of Colombo, because TTP's prime target is storage facilities, not planes.
- Since TTP has become a thorn into their gorgeous plan, even USA has starts its drone program after a long hiatus.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Jun 2014 21:14

A_Gupta wrote:http://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/ ... 227555.htm

What does the new government in India have to do with anything US-Pakistan??????

The usual. The Bakis tell Kerrorist that they can't do much about terrorism because India has this terrible new government that is about to swallow Bakistan and kill all Muslims. So Kerrorist acknowledges that he has heard that and says "challenges that we’re both facing in terms of counterterrorism" meaning that Bakistan can do nothing, the US can do nothing and they will have the proverbial chai biskoot.

Astounding that we spent a decade on BRF imagining that it was India doing chai biskoot while America was really going places and just getting Pakistan to do all the right things. What a laugh to look back on that delusion. We have a deep and almost indelible admiration for the white man in the west and attribute all kinds of powers to him.

I recall all the gratuitous advice and brainless blather that has appeared on these pages:

India should learn from America about how to treat Pakistan
India should help America fight the Taliban
If Pakistani nukes move the US will take them out
Pakistani nukes are under American control
The US keeps its interests firmly in mind as it twists Pakistan round its little finger

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Jun 2014 21:20

anupmisra wrote:
arun wrote:Indian origin T.V.Paul, Professor of International Studies at McGill University, while discussing his book on the Islamic Republic of Pakistan which is titled “The Warrior State”
I read this book last month. It paraphrases the same findings that we discuss on this forum. Bottom line, this rent-a-warrior mentality is a British legacy.

Pakis are like an n-dimensional dark body which we see occasionally see the projection in two dimensional space when there is a flash of insight. Fromm all these insights we have to construct/perceive the n-dimensional body.

Only thing is many of the insights from West and Psecs are bogus and given to us to mislead/mis-perceive!

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 14 Jun 2014 22:06

A_GuptaJi, I know this was a rhetorical question because the answer to that is US-TSP-India 101, which I am sure you have mastered as have most of us on BR.

Reason is simple. When US asks TSP to jump, TSP asks how high constrained on how much US asks India to jump. The whole AfPak, post 9/11 crap is about maintaining India TSP equal equal (constraint) while US getting its objectives met (rounding up Al Queda and bad Taliban).

Under US's MMS munna, the above constrained optimization problem was east solve. In fact, MMS would ensure that the constraint was all but met. But under Modi, assuming he will be at least a fraction tough on TSP as PM as he was during campaigning, the constrained optimization problem may become a tad complicated. It may not even be convex, and Kerrorist might need the help of Stanford Prof. Stephen Boyd to solve it

.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 14 Jun 2014 22:22

DocJi, I agree with a part of the list, and disagree with others

shiv wrote:
I recall all the gratuitous advice and brainless blather that has appeared on these pages:

India should learn from America about how to treat Pakistan

India is not US. India does not have the military/economic/TFTA capabilities that US which TSP RAPE are enamored with. So, no question of India taking any cue from US.

India should help America fight the Taliban

I agree this is rubbish simply because US has very little interest if any in helping India fight pigLeTs and their TSPA, ISI mentors

If Pakistani nukes move the US will take them out

Once again I agree this is rubbish. But I would caution that US will remote control both India & TSP as they dangle nukes against each other so equal equal is maintained and there are no spill over effects hurting whites. But US wouldn't mind a Mumbai or a Delhi or a Chennai annihilated in a mushroom cloud. Lots of opportunities open up for US, EVJ doing "God's work" will be the top of the list .

Pakistani nukes are under American control

To the extent they can't be used against whites including Israel. India is fair game .

The US keeps its interests firmly in mind as it twists Pakistan round its little finger

I completely and wholeheartedly agree with this. This is not rubbish. US gets what it wants for the most part from TSP. But given its immutable need for India TSP equal equal, US empathizes with TSP tantrums even when those tantrums lead to US soldiers' deaths in AfPak. Recall, when 1000 or million star general Adm. Mullen said the obvious, namely, terrorists are an arm of ISI, he was pilloried and dis-credited because if that line of thinking is established, there would be calls to after TSP

member_28042 · Post by **member_28042** » 14 Jun 2014 23:00

Christian MPA shot dead by own guard in Quetta

QUETTA: A Christian member of the Balochistan Assembly was gunned down by his own security guard in Quetta on Saturday, Balochistan Home Secretary Akbar Durrani said.
National Party’s Handery Masieh was reportedly shot twice in his neck and chest outside his residence, according to reports. He was shifted to the Civil Hospital, where he passed away.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 14 Jun 2014 23:23

How did we miss the nuanced implications of this gem-of-a-news. Brazil provides visa waiver for (200) bakistani fans travelling to the World Cup

Or, Brazil offers fee-free access to 200 baki fans to come and watch the world kick paki balls.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 14 Jun 2014 23:32

Figure fudging?: Budget deficit understated by Rs280b

ISLAMABAD : The federal government has understated the overall budget deficit by as much as Rs280 billion, budget documents have revealed.

Cheers

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 14 Jun 2014 23:48

Clearly Giriraj Singh got his message across. Congis enjoying paki hospitality.

"Bottom Line" Jun 14, 2014
Mian Khurshid Mehmood Kasuri Former Interior Minister,
Rauf Hassan, Analyst,
Salman Khurshid
Mani Shankar Aiyar.

Ramu · Post by **Ramu** » 15 Jun 2014 01:53

had a very interesting Pakistan-India Bilateral Dialogue, courtesy Regional Institute of Peace, Islamabad http://t.co/uWCEM6txpY

apparently there was another "celebrity" promoting beace in bakistan at the same time.

these types should bromote beace bermanently from bakistan.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 15 Jun 2014 01:57

anmol wrote: "Bottom Line" Jun 14, 2014
Mian Khurshid Mehmood Kasuri Former Interior Minister,
Rauf Hassan, Analyst,
Salman Khurshid
Mani Shankar Aiyar.

ugh...

no doubt spreading lies about modi govt in paki media.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Jun 2014 05:51

anupmisra wrote:Or, Brazil offers fee-free access to 200 baki fans to come and watch the world kick paki balls.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Jun 2014 06:47

anmol wrote:Clearly Giriraj Singh got his message across. Congis enjoying paki hospitality.
"Bottom Line" Jun 14, 2014
Mian Khurshid Mehmood Kasuri Former Interior Minister,
Rauf Hassan, Analyst,
Salman Khurshid
Mani Shankar Aiyar.

Aaj TV anchor refers to India as "Bharat". Isn't that unusual for Pak TV? Aren't we "Hindoo-staan"?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 15 Jun 2014 09:55

Murda Bole Kaffan Faaree, Wah Re Wah Paki Guppare

Jets pound militants hideouts in NWA, 150 foreign terrorists killed
( China Made Special Sniffing sensor on Bombs: Hoors Too Denied)

MIRANSHAH: Pakistani fighter jets bombarded hideouts of militants in North Waziristan, killing at least 150 foreign fighters, Geo News reported.
Official sources said, in the air raid six hideouts of the militants were targeted in Data Khel area.Pakistan launched a major offense after Uzbek fighters were involved in the all-night siege of Karachi airport that killed more than 30.The Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), an Al-Qaeda affiliate that has been mainly based in Pakistan´s tribal belt since the US-led invasion of Afghanistan in 2001, claimed 10 of their fighters were involved in Karachi airport assault.The Pakistani Taliban´s main spokesman confirmed that Uzbek fighters were involved in the attack but did not say how many. Shahidullah Shahid, the Taliban spokesman, said: "Yes, the attack on the Karachi airport was a joint operation of TTP and Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan”.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Jun 2014 10:04

Jhujar wrote:Murda Bole Kaffan Faaree, Wah Re Wah Paki Guppare

Jets pound militants hideouts in NWA, 150 foreign terrorists killed
( China Made Special Sniffing sensor on Bombs: Hoors Too Denied)

Also China made genetic nationality detectors.

When 10 bodies of Karachi attackers were found genetic tests had to be conducted to "find out their nationality" (No pig genes means non Pakistani).

But Paki air force has these China make gene detectors that can count and identify the poepl killed from the air - so 150 "foreign terrorists" have been killed.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 15 Jun 2014 10:38

shiv wrote:
Jhujar wrote:Murda Bole Kaffan Faaree, Wah Re Wah Paki Guppare

Jets pound militants hideouts in NWA, 150 foreign terrorists killed
( China Made Special Sniffing sensor on Bombs: Hoors Too Denied)
Also China made genetic nationality detectors.

When 10 bodies of Karachi attackers were found genetic tests had to be conducted to "find out their nationality" (No pig genes means non Pakistani).

But Paki air force has these China make gene detectors that can count and identify the poepl killed from the air - so 150 "foreign terrorists" have been killed.

The army only has dousers for sunrooff lever treatment, it has to outsource the determination of four-fathers for austerity reasons. But the air force, which has splurged the precious hard currency on advanced F-16-Pee, has both hanud-yahud detector pods and synthetic aperture anti-circumcision sensors. Also they have advanced weaponery that goes straight to small dark places made for cowering. No wonder the telemetry provides real-time counts.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 15 Jun 2014 10:44

shiv wrote:
anmol wrote:Clearly Giriraj Singh got his message across. Congis enjoying paki hospitality.
"Bottom Line" Jun 14, 2014
Mian Khurshid Mehmood Kasuri Former Interior Minister,
Rauf Hassan, Analyst,
Salman Khurshid
Mani Shankar Aiyar.
Aaj TV anchor refers to India as "Bharat". Isn't that unusual for Pak TV? Aren't we "Hindoo-staan"?

Shiv ji, Pakis refer to Hindustan to India before 1947 and Bharat to current one. Have seen this nomenclature for ages now.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 15 Jun 2014 10:45

Will there be ISIS like rising in Pak too ?
After the template has been set and all it needs it implementation.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Jun 2014 11:00

VikasRaina wrote: Shiv ji, Pakis refer to Hindustan to India before 1947 and Bharat to current one. Have seen this nomenclature for ages now.

OK thanks - I rarely watch more than 2 minutes of Paki news channel videos that are linked here - so I must have been mistaken.

Virendra · Post by **Virendra** » 15 Jun 2014 12:00

shiv wrote:
anmol wrote:Clearly Giriraj Singh got his message across. Congis enjoying paki hospitality.
"Bottom Line" Jun 14, 2014
Mian Khurshid Mehmood Kasuri Former Interior Minister,
Rauf Hassan, Analyst,
Salman Khurshid
Mani Shankar Aiyar.
Aaj TV anchor refers to India as "Bharat". Isn't that unusual for Pak TV? Aren't we "Hindoo-staan"?

No way. Hindoo-stan means that one acknowledges it is the land of Hindus.
That is haraam. Don't you remember Ghazwa-e-Hind ??

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 15 Jun 2014 16:29

VikasRaina wrote:
shiv wrote:
Aaj TV anchor refers to India as "Bharat". Isn't that unusual for Pak TV? Aren't we "Hindoo-staan"?
Shiv ji, Pakis refer to Hindustan to India before 1947 and Bharat to current one. Have seen this nomenclature for ages now.

Official names declared by GOI are India and Bharat. Hindustan is not official name so Pakis have to use Bharat

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 15 Jun 2014 16:43

shinee wrote:Christian MPA shot dead by own guard in Quetta.......................

From the story:

Although Masieh was a Punjabi Catholic Christian and not a Baloch, his name was officially changed to Handery Masieh Baloch when he joined the National Party.

It's hard to truly appreciate the wonder that is Pakistan. Not only do they want a name change when you change your religion, now you've got to do it when joining a political party?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Jun 2014 17:47

Pakistan kills Karachi airport attack 'mastermind'

Pakistani military jets pounded militant hideouts in the northwestern tribal region bordering Afghanistan on early Sunday morning, officials said, killing as many as 100 militants in the second strike on the region since a deadly attack on the Karachi airport a week ago.{More F-solahs for Pakistan to kill its own people. Mash'a Alla'ah}

The Pakistani government has been under pressure to combat the resilient insurgency that has plagued the country for years after the shocking attack on the country's busiest airport that left 36 people dead, including 10 assailants. Government efforts that started months ago to negotiate with the militants appeared to be going nowhere and the airport violence has made negotiations even less likely to succeed.

Pakistani air force jets targeted eight militant hideouts in the North Waziristan tribal area, two intelligence officials said. Many of the dead were believed to be Uzbeks and other foreign fighters {Oh, the 'bad Taliban'}, they said.

One of those killed was Abu Abdul Rehman al-Maani, who is believed to have helped orchestrate the five-hour airport siege last Sunday, said two other officials. Uzbek fighters and the Pakistani Taliban both claimed responsibility for the attack on Jinnah International Airport, and the Pakistani Taliban said the two had worked together to carry it out, marking a disturbing increase of militant groups working together.

When the jets struck, the militants had been gathered to discuss a deadline given by authorities for militants to leave the area, said two of the Pakistani officials.

All the officials did not want to be identified because they were not authorized to speak to the media. The information could not be independently verified. {Ah, the sting is in the tail. Some empty mud houses were flattened after several misses} The tribal areas are remote, dangerous and difficult for journalists to access.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Jun 2014 17:52

Violation must stop for dialogue to proceed: Jaitley - ToI

The Centre on Sunday asserted that dialogue with Pakistan cannot progress if ceasefire violations and infiltration continue, saying such hostilities "must stop" for the situation to "normalize".

"For the situation to normalize I think it is extremely important that these kind of violations which are taking place at the LoC must stop. That in itself is a confidence building measure before any country can proceed further," Defence minister Arun Jaitley told reporters on the second day of his maiden visit to J&K after taking charge.

He replied in the negative when asked if dialogue with Pakistan would go ahead if the ceasefire violations along the Line of Control (LoC) and infiltration in J&K continued.

"Obviously not," Jaitley, who is on a two-day visit for reviewing security measures, said, adding ceasefire violations must stop for further progress.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Jun 2014 18:21

A good commentary on Pakistan:
http://tns.thenews.com.pk/truth-behind- ... -pakistan/

A sense of what elsewhere is the national self-esteem, mutated in Pakistan’s case into what the philosopher, Sam Vankin, calls a collective pathological narcissism, wherein: “the groups as a whole or the members of the group feel grandiose and self-important. They are obsessed with group fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance, bodily beauty or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering ideals or political theories".

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 15 Jun 2014 19:39

Wonder how this will end up?

ISLAMABAD: On the directions of the government, the Pakistan Army has launched a comprehensive operation against foreign and local terrorists who are hiding in sanctuaries in North Waziristan Agency, said an Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) statement on Sunday.

“The operation has been named Zarb-e-Azb,” it said.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1112909/pakist ... waziristan

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 15 Jun 2014 20:06

http://tns.thenews.com.pk/truth-behind- ... -pakistan/

Obviously a heretic.

The diagnosis has been plain to see albeit not acknowledged by the Pakistani population or in fact Indian.

The more interesting question has to do with etiology of the diagnosis. Why is Pakistan society the way it is? What are the pschodynamics that predict exactly this outcome of a praetorian state? Pakistan has something in common with Nazi Germany, it probably has more in common with the United States. Both these latter states are characterised by a wealth and technology and religion driven sense of manifest destiny. Pakistan has poverty, rudimentary technology most of which is borrowed. That can only leave religion.

The chosen people (everyone coming out of a desert tent is chosen), cannot be inferior in any way to a people who have rejected the chosing god.There are three possibilities-the chosen people are not worthy, but that means the god made an error; the god is not that great; or the chosen people are not making enough effort to destroy the infidels.

Inevitably the first two possibilities are rejected for that would require free thought punishable by extreme sanction. Thus efforts are redoubled to fit the world into a preconceived world view.

India/Hindus are the eternal enemy of Pakistan. Fortunately this one sided enemity will become more irrelevant to India much as a pathological enemity by Cameroon would as the economic disparity proceeds apace.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Jun 2014 21:58

A_Gupta wrote:A good commentary on Pakistan:
http://tns.thenews.com.pk/truth-behind- ... -pakistan/

A sense of what elsewhere is the national self-esteem, mutated in Pakistan’s case into what the philosopher, Sam Vankin, calls a collective pathological narcissism, wherein: “the groups as a whole or the members of the group feel grandiose and self-important. They are obsessed with group fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance, bodily beauty or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering ideals or political theories".

What an excellent article

The twin delusions of paranoia and grandeur that Pakistan labours under today have their origin in this superiority complex coupled with a sense of getting wronged by an ‘inferior’ people. The acronymic neologism Pakistan — the land of the pure — is perhaps unique in the world even today.

Long long ago (2009) I had suggested the following as a possible solution for Pakistan's paranoia
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... ia#p710248

Pakistan is the prototypal example of a nation state that maintains a paranoid relationship with India. There is nothing that India can do to reduce Pakistan's paranoia and mistrust of India. Anything that India does, or does not do, is construed as hostility to Pakistan and further proof that "India does not accept or acknowledge the reality of Pakistan" This is not rational mistrust. It is irrational mistrust. It is a case of believing that "You hate me, and nothing that you do or say will convince me otherwise"

Because this is a new paradigm among nation states there are no clear pre-existing guidelines as to how any nation can deal with a country that is in a paranoid relationship with itself. But it is certainly possible to think of ways of handling a paranoid nation state provided one understands what one is dealing with.

Trying to fit a paranoid county into the category of "rational mistrust" is trying to put a square peg in a round hole. India can attempt to address every one of Pakistan accusations imagining that trust can be built up. With a rational state this is possible. Not with a paranoid state.

The way to deal with a paranoid nation, first and foremost, is to stop denying the paranoia. If Pakistan says "You hate me" and India says "No we don't" - it only increases Pakistan's paranoia. Since Pakistan is a nation state and not an individual it has greater leeway of action than an individual and it responds to increasing paranoia by building up arms and allies and then being even more paranoid about any Indian response.

India can attempt to convert Pakistan's "irrational fear" into "rational mistrust" by not denying Pakistan's allegations and furthermore by attacking Pakistan and punishing Pakistan. The mistrust that Pakistan has for India is irrational only so long as India behaves innocent and claims no hatred for Pakistan. If India can show that it actually dislikes Pakistan and its actions, Pakistan's "irrational fears" will be realised and their fears will become true and rational.

Rational fears can be addressed in a different way. We can talk to Pakistan and say 'OK - you know we don't like you and intend to hit back as we have done. If you want to avoid that, this is how you must behave". If this is hegemony, so be it. Why should India feel embarrassed about regional hegemony?

But such a relationship cannot be built up with a paranoid state like Pakistan if Indian leaders live in denial and imagine that Pakistan will change if India behaves like a harmless sugar dumpling. Changing our relationship with Pakistan would be as much a lesson for Indians who need to learn that Pakistan offers no good intentions towards India and that any Indian good intentions are both misplaced and counter productive.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Jun 2014 22:32

^^^ Shiv,
Once the Pakistanis find their irrational fears to be rational and well-founded, they may then turn even more irrational. It is not clear that that would make the danger that they pose to India more manageable or more contained. It is like saying that confirming the irrational fears that Jinnah spread, namely "Islam is in danger", "Islam will be wiped out in a united India", with actions that confirmed those fears, would have made Jinnah manageable.

A second thought is that some here have written that Pakistanis project what they themselves would do if the Hindu-Muslim situation on the subcontinent were reversed, and attribute those intentions to Hindus, and that is the source of their irrational fears. Then what you're writing is saying, let us adopt those intentions, and then their irrational fears become rational, and then manageable. But what is the effect on us of adopting those intentions? It would mean giving up our own civilization's imperatives, and becoming crypto-Islamic/Pakistani, if not in ideology then in behavior. That is too high a cost, perhaps, to make Pakistan manageable.

If your adversary makes you change your own character, for the worse, as the response to your adversary, then you may win physically, but you have really lost.

I'll put it a third way, if Islamic invaders kidnapped, raped and converted Hindu women, and now fear that Hindus will do that to them; and we depart from Shivaji's policy and behavior and instead kidnap, rape and convert Muslim women, making those fears true, then we have somehow improved the situation.

What is the fundamental fight? It is to be true to our values, our dharma, and to not only survive, but also thrive, while upholding those values. Westerns say - you want to survive and thrive, become Western; Islamics say - you want to survive and thrive, become Muslim. Desi anglophone elites (some of them) say - become Angrez to survive and thrive. But we, one, we believe our essence need not change. But we are not clear what our essence is; and some of the most interesting writings on BRF are those that examine that. The challenge of our and subsequent generations is to determine, what is essential to being us, our astitva, and what is incidental.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 15 Jun 2014 23:36

FYI, Dr. Taqi lives in Florida and is a bit of a Pashtun nationalist

... although he has a Pakistani passport I believe. He has been on at least two invited discussions at the Hudson Institute, courtesy of Haqqani (he of the terror threats against India, not the Haqqani who threatens Americans).

I won't be in the least bit surprised if he has been invited to McDill AF Base too, home of the JSOC...

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 15 Jun 2014 23:37

Talking about Paki fears, the most haunting scenario for them is million of Muslims migrating from India too Pindichannagaseousspherestan. Even the big pig Halfiz Saeed gets the nightmere just imagning about it. They were gloating about vindication of TNT after Modi won the election but soon the whole subject became tabboo once told to take all the Muslims from India based on TNT. The very idea , argument burst all of their Bulbs and STFU faster than the foam on Desi Pee.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 16 Jun 2014 00:03

http://www.dawn.com/news/1112901/karach ... an-sources

Karachi airport attack mastermind killed in N Waziristan: Sources

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 16 Jun 2014 00:15

A_Gupta wrote:
What is the fundamental fight? It is to be true to our values, our dharma, and to not only survive, but also thrive, while upholding those values. Westerns say - you want to survive and thrive, become Western; Islamics say - you want to survive and thrive, become Muslim. Desi anglophone elites (some of them) say - become Angrez to survive and thrive. But we, one, we believe our essence need not change. But we are not clear what our essence is; and some of the most interesting writings on BRF are those that examine that. The challenge of our and subsequent generations is to determine, what is essential to being us, our astitva, and what is incidental.

Very good post.
The Hindu civilization-Saraswati Civilization has to start with the region and the entire belt of Indus river. Indians have to start with this narrative and also in the Indian govt description of Bharat. World wide it has to be known that the entire area is the land of the Hindus and 100 temples will be constructed in the future where 500 million Hindus will visit for annual pilgrimage. Once this is established there will be significant change in the region and people will accept the land of Dharma.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 16 Jun 2014 00:29

A_Gupta wrote:^^^ Shiv,
Once the Pakistanis find their irrational fears to be rational and well-founded, they may then turn even more irrational. It is not clear that that would make the danger that they pose to India more manageable or more contained. It is like saying that confirming the irrational fears that Jinnah spread, namely "Islam is in danger", "Islam will be wiped out in a united India", with actions that confirmed those fears, would have made Jinnah manageable.

A second thought is that some here have written that Pakistanis project what they themselves would do if the Hindu-Muslim situation on the subcontinent were reversed, and attribute those intentions to Hindus, and that is the source of their irrational fears. Then what you're writing is saying, let us adopt those intentions, and then their irrational fears become rational, and then manageable. But what is the effect on us of adopting those intentions? It would mean giving up our own civilization's imperatives, and becoming crypto-Islamic/Pakistani, if not in ideology then in behavior. That is too high a cost, perhaps, to make Pakistan manageable.

If your adversary makes you change your own character, for the worse, as the response to your adversary, then you may win physically, but you have really lost.

The sole purpose of State of Pakistan is to reduce the land of the Dharma. The main focus is on reducing the society of dharma , physical space of geography and remove the history of the land.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 16 Jun 2014 01:56

Only Pakistani Airlines fly from Afghanistan to Iran via Pakistan!

Overflight charges: No fee charged from foreign airlines for 12 years

According to sources, the CAA authorities tried to create hurdles in the FIA probe. Despite that, the investigation team managed to find out the relevant data of the last three years.
The data revealed that only one foreign airline – Afghanistan’s Safi Airways – had used Pakistan’s airspace 6,000 times in three years.
When the FIA team pointed out this fact to the CAA, the authority issued a bill of Rs100 million to Safi Airways, which has been carrying out these flights from Kabul to Tehran.

Cheers