J&K News and Discussion-2011

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jun 2014 00:17

This old soldier who passed away early this year, served most of his time in J&K in various sectors and knew a lot of history and stuff.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 18 Jun 2014 01:23

But still What was the story behind Article 370 and its need when Maharaja was ready to sign the instrument of accession and join India ?
There are too many myths and lies masquerading as Ultimate Truth in various narratives as peddled by JLN acolytes, some by JNU Jholawala, Some by folks like A.G.Noorani, some by Kashmiri politician and locals and then there is a version by Pakistan too. On top there is a half hearted version by Indian Nationalists as per which Article 370 was a transient arrangement and was not meant to be permanent fixture and free pass to denizens of J&K.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 18 Jun 2014 01:57

VikasRaina wrote:But still What was the story behind Article 370 and its need when Maharaja was ready to sign the instrument of accession and join India ?
There are too many myths and lies masquerading as Ultimate Truth in various narratives as peddled by JLN acolytes, some by JNU Jholawala, Some by folks like A.G.Noorani, some by Kashmiri politician and locals and then there is a version by Pakistan too. On top there is a half hearted version by Indian Nationalists as per which Article 370 was a transient arrangement and was not meant to be permanent fixture and free pass to denizens of J&K.

Finally it is the geography which determines the History of region. In the case of J&K the geography was crucial for its history and also the composition of the demographics in the last 500 years. The spread of Islam can no longer use the geo graphy to its advantage.

Now for the first time India is in an advantage that it can use the geo-graphy and its resources to control the future history and make sure that it is secure for the Indians. J&K will be solved using the geo graphy and the natural advantage of India and Indian geo politics

Indian geo graphy will be ultimate winner in all the disputes of India

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Jun 2014 06:51

Facing up to Kashmir: Chinmaya R Gharekhan

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 23 Jun 2014 03:05

Geelani against ‘separate cities’ for Kashmiri Pandits

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 23 Jun 2014 06:32

abhishek_sharma wrote:Geelani against ‘separate cities’ for Kashmiri Pandits

At a time when the return of Kashmiri Pandits to the Valley is on top of the agenda of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, Hurriyat chairman Syed Ali Shah Geelani has said the proposal to “set up separate cities” is a dangerous plan and vowed to oppose it.

“Omer Abdullah was recently called to New Delhi and was told to identify 16,800 kanals of land in Kashmir to establish three separate cities for Kashmiri Pandits,” Geelani said at a seminar organised by his separatist amalgam.

“This is a grave issue… These cities are to be established in the north, south and central Kashmir and each of them require 5,600 kanals. Nearly 75,000 to 1,00,000 people will be accommodated in each city, which will be provided with every facility,” he added.

Geelani asserted that no Kashmiri was against the return of Pandits but said he would oppose any bid to create separate cities for them.

“No Kashmiri Muslim opposes the return of Kashmiri Pandits. But by creating separate cities for them, the government is actually working on its dangerous plan to harm our centuries-old brotherhood, to divide our society and to give our freedom struggle a communal colour. We will oppose it at every level and in every possible way,” he said.

The Hurriyat chairman said his separatist amalgam would soon start consultations with other separatists to build a “national consensus” over the issue.

Geelani also warned against the settling of refugees from Pakistan, terming it an attempt to change the demography of the state.

“The Modi government is coming up with a dangerous policy of changing the demography of Kashmir. The government is working on RSS plans and wants to convert the majority Muslims of Jammu and Kashmir into a minority,” he said.

In the wake of a recent video statement from Al Qaeda denouncing the politics of strikes and peaceful protests and calling for “jihad to liberate” Jammu and Kashmir, the hardline separatist leader said Al Qaeda or Taliban had no role to play in the state.

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Jun 2014 09:56

These cities are to be established in the north, south and central Kashmir and each of them require 5,600 kanals. Nearly 75,000 to 1,00,000 people will be accommodated in each city, which will be provided with every facility,

Superb!

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 23 Jun 2014 12:05

Didn't this be open target for the yahoos to target the residents?

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 23 Jun 2014 12:18

Very small villages with Hindus are still there in some parts of Kashmir under heavy security. Don't know about north, but central and south Kashmir should be safe enough.
If larger enclaves have to be built for Pandits, it has to be made clear to the local muslims that any mischief will be punishable by disproportionate response. Something like Israel and Palestine. Ethnic Kashmiri pandits are unlikely to do so though. "Communal elements" and ex-servicemen need to go there in large numbers.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 23 Jun 2014 13:15

In consideration for Gilani's bhaichara sentiments, GoI should concede halfway - there should be townships exclusively for KP settlers to provide them a sense of security from communal elements among the terrorists...AND many other settlers will also live side-by-side, across the street in existing towns, with Kashmiri Muslim bhais. This should satisfy the security concerns of re-settlers as well as the bhaichara concerns of Gilani and co.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 23 Jun 2014 16:38

Agnimitra wrote:In consideration for Gilani's bhaichara sentiments, GoI should concede halfway - there should be townships exclusively for KP settlers to provide them a sense of security from communal elements among the terrorists...AND many other settlers will also live side-by-side, across the street in existing towns, with Kashmiri Muslim bhais. This should satisfy the security concerns of re-settlers as well as the bhaichara concerns of Gilani and co.

What is stopping the bold text in your comment from happening now? I guess the re-settlers do not trust the current security environment to do that, which has necessitated the KP township proposal.

dada · Post by **dada** » 23 Jun 2014 19:40

# Agnimitra

Kashmiri Pandits & Kashmiri Muslim bhais can establish bhaichara through Skype, Whatsapp , Messenger & Other Internet based Tools. "Love-Jihad & Hate-Jihad & other islamic phenomenon can be taken care of, too !
The Basic Principle of the Relationship must never be forgotten at any cost.
Never Trust Kashmiri Muslim Bhais (These are completely & permanently alienated minds).
Their Permanent Hijrat to Pk is the only REAL Solution in long term.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 24 Jun 2014 06:04

Top LeT militant shot dead in J&K

Security forces fire at protesters, 1 dies.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Jun 2014 07:24

Nitesh wrote:Didn't this be open target for the yahoos to target the residents?

Not, when each city will have at least 10 % armed , fullly trained young ones protecting their families. They could also call for additional help from their tough realtives from other parts of India . These cities will have Saffronised names and Kesri Nishan Sahib 200 feet tall. IMHO, Israeli experts can be very help ful in setting up security measures for these cities. The 80%annual aid money from Center to JFK should be used on this project.

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Jun 2014 09:37

abhishek_sharma wrote:Top LeT militant shot dead in J&K

Security forces fire at protesters, 1 dies.

^^ Just finsihed reading "The Meadow" by Adrian Levy about the 1995 kidnapping of 5 foreigners ( who were never found) and the details of the stuff our guys have done in J&K is pretty astounding.

The games played by our intel folks and security agencies should match upto the best in the business and the brutality shown to quell the "alienated KMs" also is noteworthy. No wonder the KMs piped down within 4-5 years and got back to their "forget Aazadi, just leave us alone" mode!

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 24 Jun 2014 12:38

Jhujar wrote:
Nitesh wrote:Didn't this be open target for the yahoos to target the residents?
Not, when each city will have at least 10 % armed , fullly trained young ones protecting their families. They could also call for additional help from their tough realtives from other parts of India . These cities will have Saffronised names and Kesri Nishan Sahib 200 feet tall. IMHO, Israeli experts can be very help ful in setting up security measures for these cities. The 80%annual aid money from Center to JFK should be used on this project.

If we are planning to move people from other parts of India too disguising them as KP's then it is good, let us force the demographic change, but still making a separate city makes a big target, need to make the security arrangements for them first like you suggested

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 24 Jun 2014 12:42

sum wrote:
abhishek_sharma wrote:Top LeT militant shot dead in J&K

Security forces fire at protesters, 1 dies.
^^ Just finsihed reading "The Meadow" by Adrian Levy about the 1995 kidnapping of 5 foreigners ( who were never found) and the details of the stuff our guys have done in J&K is pretty astounding.

The games played by our intel folks and security agencies should match upto the best in the business and the brutality shown to quell the "alienated KMs" also is noteworthy. No wonder the KMs piped down within 4-5 years and got back to their "forget Aazadi, just leave us alone" mode!

Can you please explain the connection with the above news?

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Jun 2014 13:13

^^ Just remembered the book when reading story of the encounter since the book details many modus operandi of our agencies during encounters ( booby-trapping existing weapons caches/ using double agents to lure TSP pigLeTs inot homes and then flattening them etc)!
Nothing really related to the news article per se.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 24 Jun 2014 16:56

Al-Qaeda’s Kashmir Call: An ISI Diversion Tactic

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 24 Jun 2014 18:36

I think it is bad idea to set up separate cities for KP. They are normal resident of J&K. With different cities we are creating Israeli settlers type divide in J&K. Israel occupied those places while J&K is India and we should not dilute our claim by creating artificial protected townships which will reinforce divide. IMO this will prove a very costly mistake.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 24 Jun 2014 19:00

^ then expect no KP willingly moving to the valley. They left because of threat to life. Now will they go back without having to live through the same threat again? Will you go if you were in that position?

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 24 Jun 2014 19:04

rsingh wrote:I think it is bad idea to set up separate cities for KP. They are normal resident of J&K. With different cities we are creating Israeli settlers type divide in J&K. Israel occupied those places while J&K is India and we should not dilute our claim by creating artificial protected townships which will reinforce divide. IMO this will prove a very costly mistake.

Idealism and tokenism do more harm than good. Can you guarantee that kPs will not be killed again in the same fashion if they begin to live surrounded by Muslims, as earlier?

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 24 Jun 2014 19:25

rsingh wrote:I think it is bad idea to set up separate cities for KP. They are normal resident of J&K. With different cities we are creating Israeli settlers type divide in J&K. Israel occupied those places while J&K is India and we should not dilute our claim by creating artificial protected townships which will reinforce divide. IMO this will prove a very costly mistake.

Brutally put, KPs need their separate townships. Here is an article by Sunanda Vashisht about just how much Hindus were hated by the Muslims of Kashmir, even in the days before the arrival of the Pak-based mujahideen.

http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/standp ... et-1968754

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 24 Jun 2014 19:53

How are you going to create Muslim only townships all over India? Once they have their exclusive towns they would like to live like barberians with Sariah law et all. Better not to create exclusivity. Yes KP need to move back. I am for scraping of Article 370 and let any body to settle there; just like Han birathers in Tibbet. Once Punjabi,Haryanvis and Tamils have summer houses there,everything will be just fine.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 24 Jun 2014 20:32

rsingh wrote:How are you going to create Muslim only townships all over India? Once they have their exclusive towns they would like to live like barberians with Sariah law et all.

Doesn't this already exist in India ?

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 24 Jun 2014 20:36

KPs have already moved on in their lives, and older generation who fled the valley, won't be making decisions in their family as to where to move/live. I doubt if later generations would be interested in going back. Kashmir's ethnic cleansing of KPs, I am afraid, is damage permanently done. However it's time to give it back to Kashmiri Muslims. Best solution would be to divide J&K into three: Kashmir Valley, Laddakh, and Jammu. Once the division on three states is done, and if Kashmiri Muslims persist, give independence to Kashmir Valley. Put a few hundred dams on Indus/Zanskar in Laddakh, stop agriculture produce from Jammu and starve the Kashmir Valley. We will see how they get relief from 'OTHER' side of the border. Let them starve.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 24 Jun 2014 20:43

^^^ Much easier option would be to allow any Indian to settle there. In no time, Muslims there will become minority.

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 24 Jun 2014 20:50

SanjayC wrote:^^^ Much easier option would be to allow any Indian to settle there. In no time, Muslims there will become minority.

True. Revoking Art 370 would be ideal. Kashmiris have been living under fat subsidies for too long. Also really sick of media constantly blarring "we need to win the heart of Kashmiris". Only cabaret dance is left.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 24 Jun 2014 21:12

No KP is going to move back to the valley to live with their former neighbors. Hence, it is necessary to create separate enclaves. As for others moving to J&K - it cannot happen w/o scrapping Art370. Once, Art370 is scrapped, trifurcate - Jammu will be a normal state, Ladakh a UT and Kashmir can have limited autonomy.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 24 Jun 2014 21:21

How barbaric it is to ignore the fact that after ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Pandits, it is Kashmiri Pandits who must get answers especially from ever complaining majority of Kashmiri valley. It is inhuman to politicise this any further in direction detrimental to interests of Kashmiri Pandits.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Jun 2014 21:48

Even if KP dont live in valley, these townships will have their houses, addresses etc to keep their birthright claim on the land. Security forces and their families can always use them. KP should be able to vote in state elections even if they live in other parts of country. The idea is to have the boot on other foot. No Subsidy to be disbursed till KP and others get their due share.

saip · Post by **saip** » 24 Jun 2014 21:57

Scrap the Art 370. Provide monetary incentives for people from rest of the country (only to non muslims -- not very different from Haj subsidy) to settle in Kashmir valley. Decade later, no more muslim majority state and problem solved. You can even hold a plebiscite if you want to.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 25 Jun 2014 07:25

Valley strike over plan to resettle Kashmiri Pandits
http://m.newshunt.com/in/english/hindus ... n/30249553

Separatists in Srinagar expressed unhappiness at the reported move of the Centre to grant citizenship to 1947 West Pakistan refugees and its proposal to settle migrant Kashmiri Pandits in enclaves in Kashmir. A strike called by the separatist Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) over the move to grant citizenship to the refugees living in Jammu paralysed normal life in many parts of Kashmir on Monday. The strike was also to protest against the BJP and RSS observing the death anniversary of Jan Sangh founder Shyama Prasad Mookherji as national integration day. "The enemies of J&K are again out to destroy our Muslim identity. The RSS and the BJP are planning to declare lakhs of outsider refugees as citizens here to change the demography of the state. People of Kashmir will not remain silent spectators to these nefarious designs," said JKLF leader Yasin Malik, who was detained in Srinagar along with his associates while attempting to launch a 'Quit Kashmir' movement with a march .

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 25 Jun 2014 08:27

^^^ Yippee summer is here. The whining and groaning of the takers has started. Hibernation days of Kahwa drinking around the fireplace while cribbing about the rest of the world are done for now.
The Reavers have to come out and do their stuff

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 25 Jun 2014 08:32

launch a 'Quit Kashmir' movement with a march .

A great idea! Everyone else should join them and march them to the LOC to and make them quit J&K.
I think if these rioters are coming out, they should be given better productivity in agitation. So India should erase Article 370 and pass the Uniform Civil Code along with banning access to suspect NGOs to J&K. Let them combine their

on all issues.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 25 Jun 2014 09:48

prahaar wrote:
Agnimitra wrote:In consideration for Gilani's bhaichara sentiments, GoI should concede halfway - there should be townships exclusively for KP settlers to provide them a sense of security from communal elements among the terrorists...AND many other settlers will also live side-by-side, across the street in existing towns, with Kashmiri Muslim bhais. This should satisfy the security concerns of re-settlers as well as the bhaichara concerns of Gilani and co.
What is stopping the bold text in your comment from happening now?

Re-settlers must be given exclusive access to weapons for self-defence, as well as being well connected with a security apparatus committed to ensuring disproportionate responses in case of mawali-in-muhalla type needling.

rsingh wrote:I think it is bad idea to set up separate cities for KP. They are normal resident of J&K. With different cities we are creating Israeli settlers type divide in J&K. Israel occupied those places while J&K is India and we should not dilute our claim by creating artificial protected townships which will reinforce divide. IMO this will prove a very costly mistake.

I agree with this. I fear that once again the BJP is keen on communal advertisement and aping the Israeli model - rather than actually furthering the cause. IMHO, we need ideologically committed settlers to move into existing townships along with peaceful bhais. AND also have separate enclaves for the less motivated settlers - basically "acculturation" zones where any peacefuls who move in must participate in all sorts of kufr festivities and daily communal rituals - or feel unwelcome. It must be a kibbutz-like atmosphere of tight community living. No need for the government to advertize them as "separate townships" - but merely allow settlers the freedom to "create communities" to "preserve their religious and cultural heritage and ties to the soil". Etc. If allowed and if I have the right company, I would be willing to buy a home and move to J&K.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 25 Jun 2014 11:10

I still wonder how many KP's would unsettle themselves once again and go back to live among the terrorists.
My personal feeling is that number would be very low assuming that GoI can provide such cities firewall against
shenanigans of local terrorist pasand govts and somehow provide them jobs and source of income in such cities and not put them on doles once again.

Anand K · Post by **Anand K** » 25 Jun 2014 12:09

VDCs were created through a Governor’s rule era executive order in 1995. OTOH the 1861 Police Act was used the same year by then DIG Kuldeep Khoda to recommend recruitment of large number of SPOs. Also, IIRC the J&K Civilian Militia was raised in '47, with Sheikh Abdullah's help, and operated as a quasi-frontline unit under the MHA till '72 (again by an Executive Order). Regular officers were deputed into the militia to train and lead till it was converted to the JAK LI.

So, it's possible to raise militia units from the KP community Kibbutz/settlement projects if there's enough momentum from the Center. That is, if you don't want regular troops or paramilitary guarding them 24/7. We might even weasel out of the 2011 SC order on using SPOs and Salwa Judum types in armed conflict. On that note I am not sure how the KPs will go about it if they want to take back the property they left behind. I bet the nice neighbors would have appropriated those assets long ago in the highest spirits of Kashmiriyat. We'll be hearing these property cases in the courts till Hell freezes over. Even if it were somehow feasible from legal/administrative, it means KPs dispersing into the valley Sunni population and in this situation the former will be easy targets.

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 25 Jun 2014 19:21

If this rehab process goes thru successfully, I would be tempted to purchase a farm-house in Kashmir, in 'behti ganga mein...', and claim innocence that my resident papers were dstroyed in fire.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 25 Jun 2014 19:50

VikasRaina wrote:I still wonder how many KP's would unsettle themselves once again and go back to live among the terrorists.
My personal feeling is that number would be very low assuming that GoI can provide such cities firewall against
shenanigans of local terrorist pasand govts and somehow provide them jobs and source of income in such cities and not put them on doles once again.

Initially response is going to be lukewarm but if the Modi govt is able to deliver then momentum will pick-up with viability.