Artillery: News & Discussion

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 23 Jul 2014 08:19

^^^
The Dhanush is 45 cal.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Jul 2014 09:17

its a vast machine this Nth trials thing. the people who knew its rationale and design are long retired. todays high priests only know how to keep the dark gods fed with more trials. without knowing the purpose or outcome of the ritual. perhaps the never ending trials itself is the desired outcome, as it keeps the high priests happy with libations from the devotees.

and so the empire runs like a chariot through the night, driver dead at the wheel, the black horses charging through the forest mindlessly....

within the treeline, watchful eyes and energetic legs of wolves and coyotes track and follow...

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 23 Jul 2014 09:36

Again and again we come to the same thing. A full time defence minister is needed to sort through the mess and crack the whip to get a viable plan in place. Otherwise this charade will continue forever.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 23 Jul 2014 09:48

Going by this farce, army is looking like a selfish kid who always plays with toys of other kids because he doesn't want to bring it's own to the playground.

I hope the vendors will loan some guns for more 'trials' if a war happens.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 23 Jul 2014 21:35

Wow.. so out of the blue when desi gun market was getting hot they completed trials for these guns!!

That too for towed and tracked versions of 52 CAL, when similar versions were being worked upon and offered by desi people.

Singha wrote: the 52cal towed is supposed to be bideshi hifi tech for which no development precedent exists in india (never mind bharat forge has the GHN45 tech in hand) and so the trials. I dont know which two candidates are in the fray there...can anyone name them?

TATA SED Gun is 52 Cal.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/defexpo_ ... 02143.html

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 23 Jul 2014 21:47

TATA SED Gun is 52 Cal.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/defexpo_ ... 02143.html

It is amazing that the gun is available with Indian private companies, but the Generals insist on entertaining only foreign private companies and go after rounds of trials after trails. Something stinks. What exactly is their problem in not talking to companies like Tatas and Bharat Forge for a gun? It's time Modi did something about these "Import Generals." The same saga we have seen during Arjun tank trials. The same crap they are now doing for artillery.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 23 Jul 2014 22:02

SanjayC wrote:
TATA SED Gun is 52 Cal.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/defexpo_ ... 02143.html
It is amazing that the gun is available with Indian private companies, but the Generals insist on entertaining only foreign private companies and go after rounds of trials after trails. Something stinks. What exactly is their problem in not talking to companies like Tatas and Bharat Forge for a gun? It's time Modi did something about these "Import Generals." The same saga we have seen during Arjun tank trials. The same crap they are now doing for artillery.

TATA SED gun is still not 100% desi as lot of parts are from Denel, but an effort made using their own money.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 23 Jul 2014 22:08

^^^ Exactly. It is time to support these companies and increase the level of indigenization gradually. Even if it is 20% Indian, it is still better for us than 100% imported, and it will be manufactured in India.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 23 Jul 2014 22:51

SanjayC wrote:
TATA SED Gun is 52 Cal.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/defexpo_ ... 02143.html
It is amazing that the gun is available with Indian private companies, but the Generals insist on entertaining only foreign private companies and go after rounds of trials after trails. Something stinks. What exactly is their problem in not talking to companies like Tatas and Bharat Forge for a gun? It's time Modi did something about these "Import Generals." The same saga we have seen during Arjun tank trials. The same crap they are now doing for artillery.

I'm telling you this as a moderator : go easy on the language you use for the armed forces. Your right to crtiticize Services does not come with leeway to use terms as 'Import Generals' or any other such nonsense. I've said enough number number of times and will not repeat again. Mind it.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 23 Jul 2014 22:58

Sid wrote:Wow.. so out of the blue when desi gun market was getting hot they completed trials for these guns!!

That too for towed and tracked versions of 52 CAL, when similar versions were being worked upon and offered by desi people. [Snip]

Before you go out and make sweeping statements, it is always good check on facts.

Inspite of me linking the gun types being trialled, you've gone ahead and start breast beating about MOUNTED GUN SYSTEM being proposed by Tata. Tracked gun system is like the proposed BHIM gun which got shelved because of nonsense of blacklisting every supplier.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 23 Jul 2014 23:12

Karan M wrote:>>>What gives? This does not make any sense.

Nothing about the howitzer saga makes any sense anyways. This is what, the 100th RFI/RFP/trial?
And yes, logistics for a toss. How many types.

I don't think anything will come out of these except for maybe the tracked system. With Dhanush having cleared trials and DRDO working on advanced gun, there should be no import of any towed gun.

On the contrary, they should start program for mounting Dhanush on TATRA or Ashok Leyland. After towed gun requirement, Mounted Gun System is second biggest category with 816 guns required. It makes sense that both are derived from same gun.

Though, in ideal world, all four categories - tracked, wheeled, mounted and towed should use same common gun.

It seems to me that MOD may placate the army with import of Tracked and Wheeled SP guns ( hopefully sharing same gun)- between them, IIRC they account for 280 units. Balance 2600 units will be of other two varieties.

Another possible angle here: since these trials are culmination of ones started earlier ( last year or so I think), we're going through a dog & pony show with nothing coming out of it. I hope this is the case. All those platform need to derive from same gun.

Let MOD sanction more 130mm upgrade to 155/39mm program to factor in production and R&D time and not go about inducting potpourri of guns. Sigh!

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 24 Jul 2014 00:16

rohitvats wrote: Before you go out and make sweeping statements, it is always good check on facts.

Inspite of me linking the gun types being trialled, you've gone ahead and start breast beating about MOUNTED GUN SYSTEM being proposed by Tata. Tracked gun system is like the proposed BHIM gun which got shelved because of nonsense of blacklisting every supplier.

Rohit, gun trials are for both tracked and "towed" gun system. KSSL BHARAT 52 is a towed gun system on offer. TATA SED was an example by desi effort towards artillery gun system.

No one is "breast" beating and trying to malign Army here. Its the stupid system, and hence the shock and awe.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 24 Jul 2014 13:42

rohitvats wrote: I'm telling you this as a moderator : go easy on the language you use for the armed forces. Your right to crtiticize Services does not come with leeway to use terms as 'Import Generals' or any other such nonsense. I've said enough number number of times and will not repeat again. Mind it.

Friendly advice. Moderating a thread you are a participant in is not a good idea.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 24 Jul 2014 18:52

Rename this thread to "rohitvats Artillery Discussion Thread" so that people coming here know to strictly tow the agenda as mentioned by saaheb and nanha mujahids can rescue themselves from the ire of saaheb.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 24 Jul 2014 19:50

If anyone knows how these sarkari projects work, they will know that once a file is signed it gains a life of its own and a mini universe is created around it. That file will doggedly travel the course through rain, shine, whiskey and natasha with personnel retiring, dying and moving to private companies along the way over a decade or more. Many babu careers are defined by one or more such files and much fun and comfort is had by all. It does not matter that nobody has any intention to actually see anything come of it but the file must complete its journey. It appears that many such journeys will be coming to an end quickly under the new dispensation. It has nothing whatsoever to do with which guns the army will eventually get. Fikar not.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 24 Jul 2014 22:00

merlin wrote:
rohitvats wrote: I'm telling you this as a moderator : go easy on the language you use for the armed forces. Your right to crtiticize Services does not come with leeway to use terms as 'Import Generals' or any other such nonsense. I've said enough number number of times and will not repeat again. Mind it.
Friendly advice. Moderating a thread you are a participant in is not a good idea.

Most moderators (including Rohit) agree with you that moderators should not moderate discussions which they are a participant of. He must have got carried away.

Having said that, I agree with his moderation in this case.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 24 Jul 2014 22:05

Sagar G wrote:Rename this thread to "rohitvats Artillery Discussion Thread" so that people coming here know to strictly tow the agenda as mentioned by saaheb and nanha mujahids can rescue themselves from the ire of saaheb.

Problem is, he prevents people from airing views he doesn't like. We curse here politicians and bureaucrats all day. MMS is called a US stooge and a traitor. Bureaucrats are called worthless babus. A special thread has been opened where we can rant all we can about Modi. So what is so special about Generals that we have to be extra respectful, especially when we see some of them actively thwarting an Indian MIC from emerging? The saga of Arjun is all before us and how cold the generals have been towards it for no reason. Same with artillery gun offerings from Indian private companies. Same with the next upgrade of the Insas gun.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 24 Jul 2014 22:17

Hain ji bhat is thiz ??? Speaking for saaheb invites ire of another saaheb !!! Bhat is going on ???

P.B.U.S. (Peace Be Upon Saaheb's)

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 24 Jul 2014 22:27

SanjayC wrote:
Sagar G wrote:Rename this thread to "rohitvats Artillery Discussion Thread" so that people coming here know to strictly tow the agenda as mentioned by saaheb and nanha mujahids can rescue themselves from the ire of saaheb.
Problem is, he prevents people from airing views he doesn't like. We curse here politicians and bureaucrats all day. MMS is called a US stooge and a traitor. Bureaucrats are called worthless babus. A special thread has been opened where we can rant all we can about Modi. So what is so special about Generals that we have to be extra respectful, especially when we see some of them actively thwarting an Indian MIC from emerging? The saga of Arjun is all before us and how cold the generals have been towards it for no reason. Same with artillery gun offerings from Indian private companies.

I agree and disagree with you. Babus do get a bad deal here. But, that is a bad example we should probably move away from rather than towards. Find the general who is a traitor and call him out here. Nobody will have a problem. Don't say something derogatory against an entire post. For example, you don't call "saint defmins", "maun PMs"...

P.S. Rohit is probably the most vocal member against the decision makers when it comes to the Arjun saga. I don't take part in discussions here. But I like what he is saying. Back up your allegations with respect to this arty trials with points and you will have a cogent argument. Otherwise, the posts do look like just name-calling based on emotional rants and nothing else.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 24 Jul 2014 22:29

Sagar G wrote:Hain ji bhat is thiz ??? Speaking for saaheb invites ire of another saaheb !!! Bhat is going on ???

P.B.U.S. (Peace Be Upon Saaheb's)

I did not ask you to stop speaking against anybody, even a saaheb. I asked you to use the right channels. Have a problem with that?

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 24 Jul 2014 22:43

indranilroy wrote:I did not ask you to stop speaking against anybody, even a saaheb. I asked you to use the right channels. Have a problem with that?

Why would I dare to speak against any saaheb ??? I demand breaking down of any channels/canals/dams which allow anybody to speak against saaheb's here.

By the way did both of you saaheb's have passed from the same school ???

Moderator - SagarG consider this a final chance to avoid getting a ban here.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 24 Jul 2014 23:03

The fundamental problem is that a lot of posters here have no practical experience in either the forces or DRDO or even govt for that matter. Facts, analysis and constructive discussion fall prey to self righteous, bellicose and, much worse, uninformed posting. And of course facts be damned.

We are here to learn, analyse and exchange informed views so that we can build up a solid body of security issues related knowledge that is sorely lacking in India. We should keep our egos aside and focus on that - high quality, fact based posting that adds something to the discussion!!

Rohit, your posts are fantastic. And your moderation is very patient and light touch. I would strongly support a more robust approach from you and all moderators. We need to keep standards up so that a more informative and constructive discussion can happen that adds to knowledge. Please keep up the good work.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all moderators for a great job being done. You guys are credible, constructive and too patient

I would be very grateful if you could tell me how to PM the moderators.

Akshay

vic · Post by **vic** » 24 Jul 2014 23:49

Rohit has always been abusive against posters who are critical of Army import love. He has to give way on Arjun otherwise he will be a laughing stock. He writes super long posts while ignoring pertinent issues which is called obfuscation. Note in above posts he comes with obtuse rationale for howitzer trials and before that did not deal with Grad accuracy issues. He has only been protecting imports.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 25 Jul 2014 02:35

^^^ By that same logic, your endless rants against the Army, IAF are equally monotonous. So, please spare us this hypocrisy.

@Sagar G, I have never met Rohit in person.
@Akshay Kapoor, you can pm us individually. Otherwise you can report your own posts. You can always report somebody else's post if it is in violation of forum guidelines.

@All. Stop this rona-dhona and get back to discussing artillery rather than Rohit. If you want to discuss any poster, or moderator, please take it to the feedback thread. Any further posts on this thread regarding this will be dealt with as attempt to derail this thread.

vic · Post by **vic** » 25 Jul 2014 09:14

So our objection to rohit behaviour is hypocrisy while he is knight in shinning armour, the protector of imports, moderator of threads he participates in and killer of contrary opinion. His attitude is, I am a army kid so I know everything, you bloody civilians are useless.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 25 Jul 2014 10:20

vic wrote:So our objection to rohit behaviour is hypocrisy while he is knight in shinning armour, the protector of imports, moderator of threads he participates in and killer of contrary opinion. His attitude is, I am a army kid so I know everything, you bloody civilians are useless.

I have reported your post. Please be civilized even if you disagree.

member_26622 · Post by **member_26622** » 25 Jul 2014 11:06

We should involve DRDO/TATA/WALCHANDNAGAR - all desi shops in the trials. May be retain the guns in India ( easy to throw some nonsense re-export or customs crap).

It will be good for them to see and learn from these trials - may be incorporate ideas in to our own version of tracked/towed/horse drawn/heli-lift/ballon floating version (just like the chinese morphed japanese+french+canadian bullet train tech to build a best of the world 'chinese' bullet train !

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Jul 2014 11:45

Guys, lets us be optimistic, that this time the 155MM competition will not result in all the vendors be blacklisted. As OFB cant be black listed.

On a serious note, I hope that the Kalyani team, is provided the incentive to develop the 155 ULH, they are proposing to develop.

On a serious note - 2, I am totally lost, with the IA arty requirements on having what are essentially 2 types of SPH. Under 2 different names. The will only serve to split the order between the 2 making the tracked one super expensive to buy. Not to mention, at barely 100 guns, not provde the incentive to the vendor to start local assembly.

negi · Post by **negi** » 25 Jul 2014 14:48

The issue is two fold i.e. kind of a chicken and egg problem if you will; of all the 3 services IA is largest both in terms of manpower and logistical footprint and unfortunately it lags the other 2 in terms of reforms and modernization be it it's structure, culture or even equipment , hence it has highest inertia amongst the 3 when it comes to moving from bideshi to swadeshi. Having said that the import lobby in the MOD and IA also get strength from the fact that likes of OFB (unlike the Mazagon and GRSE for IN or even HAL for IAF ) are topping the charts from bottom in terms of producing even very basic dal-roti stuff like 1970s vintage Arty rounds leave alone a relatively modern system like Pinaka. Remember unlike the IN and IAF IA does not have the luxury of missing action during peacetime , they need live rounds be it for MMG, Assault rifles, medium calibre AA rounds , mortar and mountain Arty even as we speak in areas near the border. If OFB fails to produce them in desired quantity and upto a minimum std. it will be difficult to dislodge a very well rooted and established import lobby .

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Jul 2014 15:13

The solution could well be to allow the Pvt sector industry to compete totally in the domestic defense production setup. This could be done in the following steps.

1) JV with foreign vendors, this will replicate the current model. But with PVT sector players.
2) The IA releasing a minimum set of requirements that must be met by any system. The pvt sector in collaboration with the DRDO, produces it. Again this is a replication of the current setup. Just with Pvt. players.

But for either to work. The services must stop being the user of the systems only. They need to start developing institutional frameworks as what capabilities may be required 10/20 30 years down the line and how to go about accomplishing them. This will require reforms in the way the MOD functions. Cause in the absence of civilian guidelines and active Civilian & Military partnership. This will only result in chaos.

There are no easy solutions but with the willingness to develop the capacity at the top. The intentions can quickly be translated in the results.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 25 Jul 2014 19:02

indranilroy wrote:@Sagar G, I have never met Rohit in person.

As the saying goes "Great saaheb's (P.B.U.S.) think alike".

As farmaaned we must now get back to Saaheb, Artillery and Army. I eagerly wait for the next farmaan of saaheb's.

vic · Post by **vic** » 25 Jul 2014 20:59

155 ULH is tooo heavy for Indian wartime heli lift capacity. It was classic case of GSQR tailoring to create a requirement for import. We will have to dis assemble and air drop 105mm LFGs and use long range of Prahaar, Pinaka 3 etc for touching inaccessible fire fight zones.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 26 Jul 2014 08:46

So, how did the Dhanush summer trials go? Any official or Chaiwala news?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jul 2014 09:55

if the M777 is not purchased, do we really have a special need for the expensive Chinooks? to replace the small number of Mi26?

imo if we need a heavy lifter, why not the new CH53K of which USMC has put in a 120 order, perhaps we can get our 20 from their order via FMS. now thats a takkar ka muqabla with the Mi26.

vic · Post by **vic** » 26 Jul 2014 11:14

Apache, Ch-47s, ULH are all over costly equipment which are really not needed.

saptarishi · Post by **saptarishi** » 26 Jul 2014 18:37

the great Indian artillery saga is very confusing characterised by n number of rfp/rfi/trials , blacklisting and army's dilemma. plus pakistan and chinese army have a good artillery force. pakistan has acquired large numbers of paladins ( old yet potent 155mm tracked) and also ordered the panter turkish howitzer... china seems to be miles ahead.....just tried to summarize the whole thing.

indian artillery requirement

Light Howitzers : 145 155mm/39 calibre . m777 selected. fms route after singapore kinetics was banned. status: cancelled.

Tracked howitzers : 100 155mm/52 calibre. competitors L&T/SAMSUNG TECHWIN K9 Thunder and BEML/KONSTRUCTA ARZU. trials over.

Towed Howitzers : 1580 155mm/52 calibre. 400 off the shelf and 1180 manufactured in india with licence. competitors Nexter/L&T Trajan (towed version of the Caesar gun with L&T providing the lower portion ) and Soltam/Bharat Forge Athos 2052 ( bharat forge a mere integrator). trials complete

Mounted Howitzer : 814 155mm/52 calibre truck mounted. 180 to be purchased off the shelf and the rest to be manufactured in India. competitors Nexter/L&T/Ashok Leyland Caesar ( Nexter to provide the gun, L&T-the lead integrator and Ashok Leyland to provide its Stallion truck as the platform) and Soltam/ Bharat Forge/ Tatra Atmos 2000-( Soltam-gun, Bharat Forge -the integrator, Tatra -truck) and TATA POWER SED INDIGENOUS GUN with denel's technology. status - undergoing trials

So this makes the total number 2639.

plus there are three more programs:-

1)up-gunning of 130mm to 155m- Bharat Forge/Soltam and Nexter/L&T in fray.
2) Dhanush 155mm/45 calibre (indigenous up-gunned bofors) -116 ordered . army can order a total of 416 guns to replace the old bofors.
3) Indigenous 155mm/52 calibre Towed Gun effort- DRDO/OFB in lead ..Bharat Forge, L&T and Tata Power all helping out DRDO with their expertise.

ambitions programs and efforts, but unfortunately too much confusion ,delays in decision making dogging the whole artillery program for years

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 26 Jul 2014 20:35

merlin wrote:
rohitvats wrote: I'm telling you this as a moderator : go easy on the language you use for the armed forces. Your right to crtiticize Services does not come with leeway to use terms as 'Import Generals' or any other such nonsense. I've said enough number number of times and will not repeat again. Mind it.
Friendly advice. Moderating a thread you are a participant in is not a good idea.

I know where you're coming from but my post stands as a moderator irrespective of whether I am/was part of debate.

It has to do with a basic decency and protocol of posting especially when it comes to Services - and I think my stand as a poster earlier and than as a moderator is pretty clear on this aspect. That post is out of line with decency expected on BRF when it comes to Services and would be called out irrespective of thread.

My comment was on the language and not content of the post - many before him and after him on the same thread have criticized the IA for these trials and the artillery procurement saga. But being able to criticize the Services does not come with leeway to start randomly calling names or use derogatory language. One can make his point without resorting to such language.

If one has specific example and data-point, please go ahead and criticize the individual as well. But this casual approach of painting everyone with same brush is not welcome.

And I don't need 'moderator' privilege to counter any contrary opinion or post - whether coming from more knowledgeable posters who actually back their POV with data-points or pretty much potty-mouth types who simply froth at the mouth.

I hope I've made my stand clear.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 26 Jul 2014 20:48

SanjayC wrote: Problem is, he prevents people from airing views he doesn't like.

Name calling and cussing is not exactly airing 'contrary views'.

No one has stopped you, and will stop you, from having certain POV - but that is not a leeway to use the language you did. I matters not to me what you stand is on a topic or to any moderator for that matter of fact - but language does. And that will be called out without fail. So, please remember that henceforth.

We curse here politicians and bureaucrats all day. MMS is called a US stooge and a traitor. Bureaucrats are called worthless babus. A special thread has been opened where we can rant all we can about Modi. So what is so special about Generals that we have to be extra respectful, especially when we see some of them actively thwarting an Indian MIC from emerging?

Now, there're many things wrong with Services including a fair amount of corruption and nepotism but we've not reached a stage where a language used by you is more likely to hold than not. God save us if we ever reach that stage. So, going ahead, please keep that in mind.

The saga of Arjun is all before us and how cold the generals have been towards it for no reason. Same with artillery gun offerings from Indian private companies. Same with the next upgrade of the Insas gun.

And IA has been criticized proper on the Arjun import saga. Your's truly actually got his 'spurs' on BRF on that thread. But the arguments made against IA were factual and based on some painstaking research. No flying of the handle and branding everyone as 'this' or that. Doing so does not add anything to debate or your position on the topic.

On the Artillery gun saga - had you bothered to check, there's only ONE Private firm with an offering in the entire competition - TATA SED. It's the OFB which is developing/has developed Dhanush and DRDO which is working on advanced 155/52 gun.

Now, considering all this is happening, it begs a question - why did not MOD cancel these trials? After all, won't be the first time it has done so.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 26 Jul 2014 21:25

rohitvats wrote:
And I don't need 'moderator' privilege to counter any contrary opinion or post - whether coming from more knowledgeable posters who actually back their POV with data-points or pretty much potty-mouth types who simply froth at the mouth.

I hope I've made my stand clear.

Rohit you are fighting a losing war.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 26 Jul 2014 21:27

saptarishi wrote: indian artillery requirement

Thanks for the summary.

Light Howitzers : 145 155mm/39 calibre . m777 selected. fms route after singapore kinetics was banned. status: cancelled.

While the IA has felt the need for lighter heavier caliber gun for mountains, this particular requirement it seems was CREATED between some people at AHQ and MOD. General VKS mentions that GSQR was tailor made for Singapore Gun. When M777 was to be trialed with VKS in-charge, AHQ informed the Defense Secretary that M777 would not meet the GSQR because some points added to suit ST Gun did not have such relevance and it would be wrong to accept M777 to meet the same. Defense Secretary refused to budge and M777 supposedly 'failed' the trials on some parameters.

Tracked howitzers : 100 155mm/52 calibre. competitors L&T/SAMSUNG TECHWIN K9 Thunder and BEML/KONSTRUCTA ARZU. trials over.

They should resurrect the BHIM. Period. If TATA can deal with DENEL for the MOUNTED GUN SYTEM (MGS) then what is the problem with MOD allowing this combination to go through? BTW, the BEML gun turret has been offered with T-72 or Arjun hull. Though, I doubt T-72 hull can manage the 155/52 turret and associated forces of recoil. It was rejected for BHIM because hull had developed cracks and that is how Arjun hull came into picture.

Wheeled Howitzer - There is an additional category of wheeled howitzers like South African G6. This amounts for 180 guns and is supposed to be for areas where tracked platforms aren't too great. BEML is offering wheeled version of their gun as well.

This is the one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... my_867.jpg

Towed Howitzers : 1580 155mm/52 calibre. 400 off the shelf and 1180 manufactured in india with licence. competitors Nexter/L&T Trajan (towed version of the Caesar gun with L&T providing the lower portion ) and Soltam/Bharat Forge Athos 2052 ( bharat forge a mere integrator). trials complete

With Dhanush in pipeline and DRDO working on an Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System, these trials don't make sense. Unless, MOD and DRDO know something we don't.

Mounted Howitzer : 814 155mm/52 calibre truck mounted. 180 to be purchased off the shelf and the rest to be manufactured in India. competitors Nexter/L&T/Ashok Leyland Caesar ( Nexter to provide the gun, L&T-the lead integrator and Ashok Leyland to provide its Stallion truck as the platform) and Soltam/ Bharat Forge/ Tatra Atmos 2000-( Soltam-gun, Bharat Forge -the integrator, Tatra -truck) and TATA POWER SED INDIGENOUS GUN with denel's technology. status - undergoing trials

Frankly, they should be looking at mating Dhanush with a TATRA or Ashok Leyland platform. Though, only concern could be in terms of weight of the total system.

For example, this is the comparison between CAESAR and DENEL T5-52 (from which TATA SED MGS is derived):

Weight - 18.5 t - 28 t
Length (gun forward) - 10 m - 10.1 m
Hull length - ~ 7 m -
Width - 2.5 m - 2.9 m
Height - 3.26 m - 3.48 m