Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct 2014

[Anujan]

Last page of previous thread is here http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... start=2840

The following links are background material on Pakistan.

UNDERSTANDING PAKISTAN:

Jinnah's Pakistan: An Interview with MA Jinnah, and how the Pakistan of Yesterday is the Pakistan of Today
http://iref.homestead.com/Messiah.html

http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/_files/012809Tellis.pdf

The above is the testimony of Ashley Tellis on Jan 28th 2009, to the US Senate Homeland Security Committee on LeT's global role. It is a good articulation of LeT's past and future trends.

Know Your Pakistan
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... /Shiv.html

The Monkey Trap: A synopsis of Indo-Pak relations
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... ayyam.html

PAKISTAN-FAILED STATE: an ebook that owes its origin and existence to BRF.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/EBOOKS/pfs.pdf

Whither Pakistan ? Growing Instability and Implications for India: an IDSA e-Book, July 2010
http://idsa.in/book/WhitherPakistan

A landmark article that demolishes myths built up about Pakistan
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers8/paper710.html

Pakistani Role in Terrorism Against the U.S.A
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... yanan.html

Pakistani Education, or how Pakistan became what it is: Curricula and textbooks in Pakistan
http://www.sdpi.org/publications/public ... 86-34.html#

Making Enemies, Creating Conflict: Pakistan's Crises of State and Society. A book written by Pakistanis on Pakistan.
http://members.tripod.com/~no_nukes_sa/Contents.html

Should Pakistan Be Broken Up? by Gul Agha
http://pakistan70.tripod.com/gul.html

A modest proposal from the Brigadier:

https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/i ... desman.htm

"We should fire at them and take out a few of their cities—Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta," he said. "They should fire back and take Karachi and Lahore. Kill off a hundred or two hundred million people......."

Alden Pyle in Pakistan, Part I
http://pundita.blogspot.com/2009/12/ald ... art-1.html

Prof. Walter Russell Mead, "Pakistan's Failed National Strategy"
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... -strategy/

"Pakistan Is", by Barry Bearak in New York Times Magazine, December 7, 2003.
Brings out succinctly various facets of Pakistani perfidy, obsession, fundamentalism etc.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... nted=print

Religion as the Foundation of a Nation: The Making and Unmaking of Pakistan - P.K. Upadhyay, IDSA
It probes the religious and sectarian fault-lines in Pakistan in depth to determine their impact on the future of Pakistan.
http://idsa.in/system/files/monograph36.pdf

Ms. Christine Fair's exposition on Pakistan military, society et al. A Must see.
Fighting to the End: Pakistan Army's Way of War


PAKISTAN and GENOCIDE:

Image Scan of article on 1971 East Pakistan Genocide by Antony Mascarenhas, Former Asst. Editor, Morning News, Karachi in Sunday Times, London, June 13, 1971

Text scan of the above article on 1971 Genocide

Bangladesh Genocide Archive

Ethnic cleansing in Pakistan - a statistical analysis
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... idhar.html

A chronicle of genocide by the Pakistan army
http://www.gendercide.org/case_bangladesh.html

Documentary video evidence of Pakistani genocide in Bangladesh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-94U1bVUQ
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EBKlIUbpc ... re=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sMg9Ly9nK0g
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xwwPbkyZV ... re=related

PAKISTAN & TERRORISM:

The Ideologies of South Asian Jihadi Groups (Laskar-e-Taiba)
By Hussein Haqqani (journalist and Pak ambassador to US)
http://www.futureofmuslimworld.com/rese ... detail.asp

Lashkar-e-Taiba: Past Operations and Future Prospects, Stephen Tankel, April 2011
New America Foundation
http://newamerica.net/sites/newamerica. ... _LeT_0.pdf


Pakistani sponsoring of Terrorism
http://www.geocities.com/charcha_2000/
http://pak-terror.freeservers.com/Terro ... y_Tool.htm

Terror Map: The Pakistani Hand
http://sify.com/news/specials/terrormap/?vsv=TopHP1

Inside Jihad - How Pakistan sponsors terrorists in India
http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/ ... r_sb1.html

Pakistan's Role in the Kashmir Insurgency - Op-ed by Rand's Peter Chalk
http://www.rand.org/hot/op-eds/090101JIR.html

Alden Pyle in Pakistan, Part II
http://pundita.blogspot.com/2009/12/ald ... -upon.html

BEYOND MADRASAS: ASSESSING THE LINKS BETWEEN EDUCATION AND MILITANCY IN PAKISTAN
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/ ... nthrop.pdf

Pakistani Military Officers' Links with Jihadist Organizations
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/5587.htm

Putting Our Children in Line of Fire - The Nation, January 27, 2013
The above is an admission by Pakistan Army's Top General that it was the Pakistani Army at Kargil, not the mujahideen, and Musharraf was the Culprit

Debate between a Taliban Scholar and a Paki Army Officer


PAKISTAN and NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION:

Pakistani nuclear scientist's accounts tell of Chinese proliferation - R. Jeffrey Smith and Joby Warrick, Washington Post, Nov 13, 2009

PAKISTAN TODAY:

On the Frontier of Apocalypse: Christopher Hitchens seminal article on Pakistan today
http://newsstuff.0catch.com/article5.htm

http://meaindia.nic.in/bestoftheweb/2002/10/14bow2.htm

A Slender Reed in Pakistan - Editorial in the Christian Science Monitor
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1229/p08s03-comv.html

Seymour Hersh Interview
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_hersh.html

Pakistan's Nuclear Crimes (Wash. Post editorial)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... 2-2004Feb4

http://www.indiadefence.com/LOA07Aug04.htm

The Battle for Pakistan: Militancy and Conflict in Pakistan's Tribal Regions
http://counterterrorism.newamerica.net/ ... r_pakistan

BOOK REVIEW Fulcrum of Evil: ISI-CIA-Al Qaeda Nexus
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpap ... r1844.html

Article from Vinni Capelli - Foreign Policy Research Institute:
Containing Pakistan: Engaging the Raja-Mandala in South-Central Asia
http://www.fpri.org/orbis/5101/cappelli ... kistan.pdf

The videos are from this documentary: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/taliban/

A bomb at all cost By Ahmad Faruqui - a candid admission of the wars that Pakistan started against India.

Popular support for suicide bombings in pakistan.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 008_pg12_1
Survey by university students in karachi say 50% of respondents support suicide bombings in kashmir.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OWsmJIwe9Q4
"Descent into Chaos"
UC Berkeley Conversations with History, host Harry Kreisler talking with Pakistani Journalist Ahmed Rashid. 59 minutes 120 MB. It sums up Pakistan and lays bare all Pakistan's terrorist support and proliferation activities. **Note - he wants the US to solve Pakistan's Kashmir problem.

Pakistan on the brink: Video Link (must download)

MISCELLANEOUS

UNSC Resolutions on Kashmir

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto telling Bangladeshis to "Go to Hell": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dsxfyxa ... re=related

IDSA's weekly summary of Pak Urdu Press:

http://www.idsa.in/pup


Christine Fair :Ten fictions that pakistani defense officials love to peddle

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Five installment series by Kapil Komireddi published in Frum Forum

Part I. Nov 16, 2009. “Pakistan In Crisis”.

Part II. Nov 18. 2009. “Pakistan: Origins of A Failed State”.

Part III. Nov 18, 2009. “Pakistan: It Could Not Succeed Unless India Failed”.

Part IV. Dec 06, 2009. “Pakistan: A Mecca for Radical Islam”.

Part V. Dec. 07, 2009. “Pakistan’s Army: Building a Nation for Jihad”

A perceptive blog on Pakistan: http://pak-watch.blogspot.com/

Declassified documents from US National Archives on Pakistan:

http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/pakistan/pakistan.htm
_______________________________________________


Admission of state sponsored terrorism by Pakistani authorities

see this Der Spigel Interview where Musharraf admits to that.

On 7th Nov in TimesNow Channel, Tasneem Noorani, a former Secretary of the Pakistani Interior Ministry, openly said that.

Kiyani called the Haqqanis as strategic assets.

In Dec. 2008, President Zardari himself admitted to ISI helping LeT. He said,"The links between the Inter-Services Intelligence Agency and the LeT were developed in the old days when dictators used to run the country. After the 9/11 terror attacks in the US, things have changed to a great extent"

In an address to bureaucrats in July 2009, President Zardari said: "Militants and extremists were deliberately created and nurtured as a policy to achieve some short-term tactical objectives. Let us be truthful to ourselves and make a candid admission of the realities. The terrorists of today were the heroes of yesteryears until 9/11 occurred and they began to haunt us as well"

In Nov. 2009, Prime Minister Gilani admitted to the support for terrorism by Musharraf as "running with the hares and hunting with the hounds".

When Bush warned the Pakistanis in August 2008 of their support to Al Qaeda, Afrasiab Khattak, President of Awami National Party (ANP) said this: "The question is why it has taken the Americans so long to see what the ISI is doing. We’ve been telling them for years but they wouldn’t buy it.". See here.

In an interview to the BBC as far back as on Feb. 13, 1994, Benazir Bhutto admitted how she handed over to Rajiv Gandhi the complete list of Sikh activists colluding with the ISI in terrorism in the Punjab. Later, Nawaz Sharif described this interview as a faux pas.

Apart from these, of course, numerous Pakistani commentators, analysts, and editors have openly admitted to terror as a state policy.

________________________________________________________________________

Why Did Pakistan's Spy Chief Make a Secret Trip to China?
Quote:

Pasha's China trip has been interpreted by some as a tacit act of defiance—a reminder to his American counterparts that the Pakistanis can always look east to their “all-weather” friend across the Himalayas rather than bend the knee to the will of the U.S.

But it also may be a sign of China's growing disquiet with Pakistan. Another top-ranking Pakistani military officer, Lt. Gen Wahid Arshad, had already conducted a considerable tour of China just weeks ago in a bid to improve ties. A few analysts have suggested that Pasha's trip — couched in vague terms about building a “broad-based strategic dialogue” — may have been less a visit and more of a summons.

Quote:

Chinese officials claimed the attacks in Kashgar were authored by the shadowy East Turkestan Islamic Movement, a jihadist organization of mostly ethnic Uighurs, a Turkic Muslim minority that comprises the majority in the far-western Chinese region of Xinjiang. China routinely invokes the specter of the terrorist threat when cracking down on dissent in the restive region. Yet disturbances there tend to be triggered more often by social discontent — many Uighurs chafe at state policies they deem discriminatory and marginalizing — than militant connivance. Pasha's presence in Beijing may mark Beijing's continued efforts to root out Uighur dissidents and sympathizers beyond China's borders, as it has already done in Kazakhstan.

Youtube video: Bilatakalluf with Tahif Gora: Tarek Fateh dissects with Pakjabi society and shows how its war-impotent Army loots the common Pakistani (Jan 13, 2012)

[partha]

Modi aane ke baad yeh Barkha Dutt ko kya hua? She has turned into right wing war monger onlee
http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/the-bu ... tan/341055

[hnair]

That loser Raheel Sharif looks and acts like a Saddam Hussain with Down's Syndrome....

Even managed to develop an inferiority complex with an ageing South Indian actor (thx Anujanullah )

[Philip]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/o ... ng-kashmir
India warns Pakistan it will pay heavy price for shelling in Kashmir
Defence minister calls Pakistan an ‘aggressor’ and threatens retaliation for what he termed unprovoked attacks

Indian villagers salvage belongings from one of the houses damaged in shelling by Pakistani troops at Nanga, in Jammu and Kashmir state. Photo: Channi Anand/AP

India’s defence minister has warned that Pakistan would pay an “unaffordable price” if the neighbouring state did not stop shelling in the disputed Kashmir region.

Artillery, rifle and mortar fire continued on Thursday as the worst outbreak of cross-border violence in a decade showed no signs of fading.

Arun Jaitley called Pakistan an “aggressor” and accused it of making unprovoked attacks on Indian-controlled Kashmir. He threatened heavy retaliation. “If Pakistan persists with this adventurism then our forces will continue to fight,” he told a news conference in Delhi. “The cost of this adventurism will be unaffordable.” He did not give more details.

Both India and Pakistan accuse the other of starting the new bout of fighting, and the border truce that has largely held since 2003 is starting to look increasingly shaky.

In total, nine Pakistani and eight Indian civilians have been killed along a 200km (125 mile) stretch of border.

Almost 20,000 Indian civilians have fled their homes to escape the fighting, taking refuge in schools and relief camps.

Hopes of better relations between India and Pakistan were raised when the new Indian prime minister, Narendra Modi, invited his Pakistani counterpart, Nawaz Sharif, to his inauguration in May. However, contact has now been broken off and any chance of progress towards normalising ties appears distant.

Senior Indian officials from the ruling Bharatiya Janata party have made clear that they want to mark a distinct change from the policies of the previous government, led by the centre-left Congress party. In opposition the BJP repeatedly criticised Congress for “appeasing” Pakistan.

“We want to assure the nation we will not let it down,” said Rajnath Singh, the Indian home minister.

In Pakistan, the defence minister, Khawaja Asif, said his nation was fully capable of responding to any Indian aggression, though added that Islamabad did “not want to convert border tension … into a confrontation”.

Both countries claim all of Kashmir, a former princedom renowned for its natural beauty that was split between them shortly after they won independence from Britain in 1947. The dispute has been a major cause of tension in south Asia, provoking two wars.

Ajai Sahni, of the Institute of Conflict Management thinktank in Delhi, downplayed the significance of the latest exchanges of fire, which he said were “an annual ritual”.

“For them [Pakistan], it is basically seen as a last opportunity to push through as many infiltrators as possible before the onset of the bone-chilling winters,” he told AFP news agency. India has long accused Pakistan of violating the ceasefire pact to push armed fighters into the Kashmir from training camps sited across the de facto border.

Pakistan maintains that it does its best to prevent incursions into India-administered Kashmir and that it shut down such camps more than a decade ago.

Ajai Shukla, an analyst and former Indian army officer, said that infiltration was not the aim of the Pakistani army as fighters could use all-weather routes into India year round. Hostilities made it easier for troops on the border to deploy firepower locally without reference to their chain of command, he said.

Instead, Shukla argued, the recent fighting had been prompted by the desire of the most senior commanders of the Pakistani army to bolster their internal prestige after launching a controversial campaign to wipe out groups of Islamic militants in the west of their country..

“Their real focus is elsewhere but they don’t want to be accused of being stooges for the US so take on the ‘big bad enemy’ of India,” Shukla said.

India held a meeting on Wednesday of its top security officials to discuss how to handle the conflict. Pakistan’s Sharif has called a similar meeting on Friday.

“Everything will be fine soon,” Modi told reporters after a meeting with India’s air chief late on Wednesday. The terse sentence is all Modi has so far said publicly.

Channels set up to lower tensions when hostilities break out between the nuclear-armed neighbours have not been used this time.

No meetings of senior officials at the border, as occurred during previous spikes in violence, have been arranged, and there has only been one phone call between the two armed forces.

Major General Khan Tahir Javed Khan, the Pakistani officer responsible for the section of the border where the violence has broken out, said he had been trying to meet his Indian counterparts since the exchanges of fire began, but they would not return his calls.

“You need a strict discipline to be imposed by both sides and that only happens if there is a commitment from the leadership to do that,” said Talat Masood, a retired general in the Pakistan army. “It seems right now there is a lack of commitment on both sides to rein it [in].”

Sharif, who took power last spring, has angered members of Pakistan’s powerful military by backing closer ties with India, particularly in the commercial sector. He has been weakened by recent political protests in Islamabad aimed at unseating his government.

Modi has an unshakeable dominance in parliament’s lower house but faces key state elections in coming weeks.

However, though the language used by officials in Delhi was tougher, the actual military response was similar to previous clashes, Shukla said.

Some commentators in the region have raised the prospect of increased tensions in Kashmir as most US and other international troops leave Afghanistan. They argue that Islamic extremists currently fighting there will transfer their attentions to the conflict with India rather than battle Afghan government forces, who are fellow Muslims.

Despite a slight increase last year, overall levels of violence are lower now in Kashmir than at almost any time since an insurgency that pitted young Muslim Kashmiri Islamists and separatists, and later extremists from Pakistan too, against Indian security forces first flared more than two decades ago.

In total, more than 50,000 militants, soldiers, police and civilians are thought to have died in the fighting in India’s only Muslim-majority state.

PS:Pl. note the typical hypocritical British attitude of calling Paki terrorist swine "militants","armed fighters",while they call their own home grown jihadis "terrorists" and throw the entire criminal law book at them for their acts,both executed and intended with max sentences.
They too appear unable to give up their lust for the Paki rent boys.

[SSridhar]

PM Nawaz calls upon India to honour ceasefire agreement - DAWN

A meeting of the National Security Committee took place on Friday with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif in the chair and condemned unprovoked firing from across the Line of Control (LoC) and working boundary by Indian security forces.

The meeting was attended by Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan, Defence Minister Khawaja Asif, Adviser to PM on National Security and Foreign Affairs Sartaj Aziz and senior military officials.

The top military leadership briefed the meeting's participants about the latest situation along the LoC and working boundary, and moreover said that Pakistani forces are only firing in defence and not targeting civilian areas.

PM Nawaz told the meeting that Pakistan's desire for peace should not be misunderstood and called upon India to immediately honour the sanctity of LoC and working boundary and halt firing for durable peace.

The premier also deplored the loss of lives in the Pakistani side of the territory as a result of Indian firing.

Earlier on Wednesday, the federal government had decided to convene a meeting of the NSC in the wake of ongoing firing at the LoC and the working boundary dividing Pakistan and India.

The nuclear-armed neighbours have traded blame for the cross-border strikes, which began during Eidul Azha celebrations in the predominantly Muslim region.

[vishvak]

Jhapadstan mob boss wailing like jihadi bride. The jihadi army generals and mob bosses are like non-female equivalents of British jihadi motarmas running brothels for ISIL.

[Anujan]

Honor the sanctity of LoC was something that ABV came up with. Good to see Nawaz parroting that line.

[habal]

That loser Raheel Sharif looks and acts like a Saddam Hussain with Down's Syndrome....

he looks like a podgy and taller Saddam.

[Baikul]

Malala Yusufzai wins a Nobel Peace Prize ? I didn't think the Nobel Piss Committee could do worse than when it gave it to Obama. For what?

Kailash Sathyarthi's work has been demeaned by this nonsensical equal equal, IMO.

[member_28714]

^^^ Hope he turns it down.

[Raja Ram]

I have no idea about the background of Kailash or what he has done. What I do know is that this Nobel Peace Prize circus has always been a convenient propaganda tool since many years.

Such joint awards is just yet another example. Mr Kailash may indeed be very worthy of recognition for the work he has done. I have no problems. This will just be another distraction like the Aman ki tamasha drama....how both nations should join together to fight social evils instead of fighting condescending nonsense. But you can look forward to more such propaganda attempts that is for sure.

[Anujan]

Pakis are sure to get their chaddis in a twist about Malala.

[Baikul]

There - to the extent they don't treat it like another best Microsoft patent award winner onlee - is some faint hope in that.

[Ranjani Brow]

War with India not an option, says Pakistan's National Security Committee: Reuters

[SSridhar]

Why does the Nobel Committee task about a 'Hindu & Muslim and an Indian & Pakistani' ? What have these got to do with the award? Nobel Peace prizes are political these days.

[JE Menon]

I hope the money Kailash Satyarthi gets as a result of this comes from outside India and stays inside.

Other than that, not much point from our point of view in the moral masturbation of a bunch of Scandinavian morality entrepreneurs.

Maybe they should learn a thing or two from the Biglund-Smalgand Foundation.

[SSridhar]

India cannot give Pakistan Army befitting reply - Major General (Retd) Ashok K Mehta, ET

The simple fact is that India has not developed a decisive, conventional military superiority to give Pakistan army a befitting reply. So what you get instead is 'Act Tough' rhetoric amounting to disproportionate response — no flag meetings, no DGMO talks and not even political talks unless Pak stops firing.

This is not remotely akin to the frequently touted muscular and robust foreign and security policy of the Modi government.

[A_Gupta]

I was just reflecting that Pakistan's Nobel winners, Abdus Salam and Malala Yusufzai, could not safely live in Pakistan.

[A_Gupta]

^^^

Firing will peter out soon setting the stage for next month's Saarc summit in Kathmandu. Mr Modi, the acclaimed new messiah of Saarc spirit, will just have one option — to initiate the revival of needlessly stalled dialogue.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

Really?

[pankajs]

All his major points can be disputed but why bother. The Modi memo has not reached the Major General that times have changed .. does not matter now that it has reached Pak Mil as evident by the statement of Chennab Rangers commander.

[SSridhar]

I am willing to work with Malala for bettering India-Pakistan relations - Kailash Satyarthi

[hnair]

Trust the Scandies to equate India with Pakistan, by giving this silly award to people from both places What a bunch of sourpusses - they should have just given it to Malala and be done with.

But no, they have to attempt creating an artificial new frankenstein, like that successful Brit operation with Booker and ARoy

[CRamS]

Guys, I don't know about you guys, but this Nobel Piss comittee has stuffed it in India's face with this condescending equal equal. I don't know whether they had any good intentions in mind, but at a time, when Paki diabolical machinations are going on the LoC, this is the white man's way of telling India, you f#ckers should make piss not fight. What India is doing is no less, if not infintly more than taking on evil like they claim to take on like ISIS or whatever.

[member_28714]

Guys, I don't know about you guys, but this Nobel Piss comittee has stuffed it in India's face with this condescending equal equal. I don't know whether they had any good intentions in mind, but at a time, when Paki diabolical machinations are going on the LoC, this is the white man's way of telling India, you f#ckers should make piss not fight. What India is doing is no less, if not infintly more than taking on evil like they claim to take on like ISIS or whatever.

Of course they have but what can we do? The sheep wont get it. The moron that Mr Kailash nobody is, he says he wants to cradle Malala and process piss together.

[habal]

somewhere out there malalal is getting ready with her 'advice to Indians' in a forthcoming BBC/CNN/Guardian/Economist interview.

[CRamS]

GeorgeJi, its the familiar pattern all over again. TSP ups the ante, India thunders in rage, the white guys do an equal equal (this time it was not some DC bahadur making trips to both India & TSP but through this Nobel piss), we have internal bickering (which will only get louder in the coming days), not to mention some clown like Ashok Mehta, etc etc. So I guess this round passes off until TSP gets that anal itch again in a few weeks/months.

[A_Gupta]

Don't make too much of the Nobels. Into sure why anyone's chaddi should be in a twist. Remember Modi's Patna speech that inspired MJ Akbar to join the BJP? Take the Nobel's Hindu-Muslim, Indian-Pakistani statement in that spirit.

[CRamS]

AnujanJi, in general you are right, I don't think TSPA/ISI/RAPE take any real pride in this. Morover, they also know that this was an equal equal. But from their India strategy PoV, this is a massive, massive shot in the arm, more than the blows the Indian army and BSF were giving them across the LoC ad IB. Like a free hit in a T20 game. They will come swinging hitting India hard with their RAPE types telling India that the "international community" wants India to make piss, talks should be resumed. ISI will unleash these PR skunks in all fora including into the willing arms of Indian media like UndY. You know the current TSP strategy. By pointing a gun at India's head, they will now soak up all the pee pee contact BS, trade etc, you name it, and seek parity with India. And at some time in the futre, they will be back full swing with another LoC or 26/11 gig.

[A_Gupta]

And Pakistan needed an echandee saving way of climbing down at the LoC. As long as India did not provide that, that is all that matters. Pakistan has to learn, though it may never learn, that it cannot fight India to get concessions. It will have to proceed by diplomacy only. Meaning, "we will not attack you" is not an incentive for India. Pakistan has to give positive goods, not absence of harm, to get anything from India.

[A_Gupta]

KLNM wrote this:

I think Modi has made his approach very plain, in his many campaign speeches as well as in post-election statements. There is no mystery, we just have to listen and assume he is stating what is actually on his mind:

1. Never be an aggressor, but never allow anyone to stare India down
2. Develop, improve, and make India a better country
3. Bring out universal values of Indian culture and free up Indians to own those values.
4. Based on those universal values, be always prepared and open to co-operating with anyone in constructive endeavors.

1 implicitly means we don't try to control anyone or make them "do" anything our way. We will be fine as long as they don't try to put us down, in which case they will be made to pay a price.

This approach defines his strategy for Pakistan as well as the rest of the world, including USA, China, news traders, or whoever. Everything else is operational detail.

I don't see the Nobel as having derailed or detracted from this in any way.

[CRamS]

A_GuptaJi, you are being way too generous boss by not attributing any malignan intentions to the Nobel Piss committe b@stards. They pissed on India's face with this, make no mistake about. What they essentially told India is, you getting raped by TSP through terror, through undeclared war on he LoC and IB is insignificant. And mind you, those b@stards know exactly how the ISI and TSPA work, and how this award will in now way be used by ISI/TSPA for the betterment of their people or genuine piss with India, but rather as another propaganda tool to assert parity with India.

[A_Gupta]

KLNM wrote this important thing too:

The government will have no interest in speculation over Pakistan's internal compulsions (and implicit alibi-making for such behavior) which makes it act in this way; such things will be left to the media, unlike during the Vajpayee administration--recall that during Kargil, George Fernandes was speculating that Badmash was probably blameless, and it was the military which was acting on its own. It would also have no interest in the innate character of Pakistan, its people, Islam, or a host of other things. It leaves those things to "the experts". Note the refusal to deal with the question in Modi's Zakaria interview.

[A_Gupta]

A_GuptaJi, you are being way too generous boss by not attributing any malignan intentions to the Nobel Piss committe b@stards. They pissed on India's face with this, make no mistake about. What they essentially told India is, you getting raped by TSP through terror, through undeclared war on he LoC and IB is insignificant. And mind you, those b@stards know exactly how the ISI and TSPA work, and how this award will in now way be used by ISI/TSPA for the betterment of their people or genuine piss with India, but rather as another propaganda tool to assert parity with India.

Read the second KLNMurthy excerpt I quoted above. And don't worry about things that need not be worried about.

[rsingh]

Problem with Nobel PP winners is.........they start assuming that they are super humans and they have solutions for everything. Soon sekular media will train them with peacnik words and phrases. Today on TV this guy was aam abdul.......lost for words. Very soon we will see him using words like dialog,interfaith dialog,communal harmony,peace overtures,root of fundamentalism,saffron terror etc. If Maoists enrolls him for fight of dalits and untouchables.......God save India.About Malala.........west is preparing future Prime minister of Pakistan.

[Brad Goodman]

AOA great victory

Seventh largest mosque opened in Lahore Bahria Town

LAHORE: Grand Jamia Mosque in Bahria Town Lahore, completed at the cost of about Rs4 billion, opened its doors for Eidul Azha prayers. This masterpiece of indigenous Pakistani architecture has a capacity to accommodate 70,000 people, which makes it the world’s 7th largest Masjid in the world. Additionally the indoor capacity of 25,000 people makes it the largest mosque in Pakistan, says a press release.

No money to eat, no money to educate kids, no money for healthcare, no money for flood victims but they build mosques.

The interior of the mosque is absolutely magnificent with breathtaking interiors, representing the fusion of traditional Islamic architecture with the Pakistan’s culture.The carpet has been custom-made from Turkey and there are over 50 luminous chandeliers that have been imported from Iran, creating a vibrant Islamic ambiance.

[Shreeman]

Malala Yusufzai wins a Nobel Peace Prize ? I didn't think the Nobel Piss Committee could do worse than when it gave it to Obama. For what?

Kailash Sathyarthi's work has been demeaned by this nonsensical equal equal, IMO.

I have seen some next level shit. Believe me when I tell you that I am still neck deep in a quicksand of shit and furiously spitting.

However this piss prize business is just something else, it takes the cake. Humankund as a race is doomed to lame fights over goat droppings if this is the collective level of intelligence now. Perhaps the chinese can introduce a new Eleven or Fifty One medal to motivate some good work.

Yuck. And apologies for the coarse language.

[rsingh]

Bardon double bost

[Shreeman]

AOA great victory

Seventh largest mosque opened in Lahore Bahria Town

LAHORE: Grand Jamia Mosque in Bahria Town Lahore, completed at the cost of about Rs4 billion, opened its doors for Eidul Azha prayers. This masterpiece of indigenous Pakistani architecture has a capacity to accommodate 70,000 people, which makes it the world’s 7th largest Masjid in the world. Additionally the indoor capacity of 25,000 people makes it the largest mosque in Pakistan, says a press release.

No money to eat, no money to educate kids, no money for healthcare, no money for flood victims but they build mosques.

The interior of the mosque is absolutely magnificent with breathtaking interiors, representing the fusion of traditional Islamic architecture with the Pakistan’s culture.The carpet has been custom-made from Turkey and there are over 50 luminous chandeliers that have been imported from Iran, creating a vibrant Islamic ambiance.

kurdish carpets and shia chandeliers! How sekular.

[Raja Ram]

Maj Gen Ashok Mehta's article seems to gloss over many details to drive home possibly his political preferences rather than a true professional assessment. I did not spend a third of my youthful years astride the LOC as the good General to dispute what he has said with regard to the usual nature of these kind of exchanges.

All I can lay claim is to be an interested and avid observer from a distance on things that are unfolding without any recourse to inside information or professional experience. Even so, I do believe that the article does not give an accurate picture of what is happening. If we discern from what is getting reported and the reactions that it has caused across the border, it is clear that the damage done is not of the same scale nor is it restricted to civilian casualties. Now how do I come to this conclusion? Please consider the following:

1. As I had mentioned in my posts in the previous thread, there was a clear drive that was initiated right at the time of the last few months of the UPA administration under the direct supervision of Gen Bikram Singh to evolve a more robust response strategy that empowers Operation Level Commanders. I believe that done professionally and ready. It was this plan that was executed in this round of provocation. I also believe that the plans were made with a view to inflict disproportionate damage and cost on the other side for such acts of provocation so that they do not undertake such misadventures like raiding and beheading of Indian Armed Forces personnel.

2. The new thing about this response was the unified multi agency coordinated management model. It had complete visibility to the ground realities with freedom to respond and execute given to the theater commanders. They did not go through Assess-Inform-Get Orders-Execute route. The other aspect was the very measured and controlled responses from political leadership. No media frenzy was encouraged. The MEA team also ensured that there was no needless expression of concern and advise of restraint by pesky spokespersons of significance.

3. On the other side, there has been an across the board set of reactions ranging from political spectrum, retired PA, serving PA, terrorist chiefs and it has ranged from false bravado, wailing, plead for peace and threats for nuclear annihilation. On this side, the reaction has not been to ratchet up any war of words or counter threats. Just couple of statements - Pakistan has learnt a lesson - Pakistan will find it very costly to pursue this nonsense - Things will be back to normal soon - No words are necessary when triggers are getting pulled

4. Damages on the other side has been extensive. Pakistan is usually quick to claim civilian casualties but very loath to acknowledge military ones. That usually comes in through leaked reports of night burials and shahadat prayers. I am sure that this will come out in the open in the next couple of weeks.

Now based on the above, it is quite clear that the good General is trying to make it look like that this is just an ordinary exchange is something that is not borne out of a proper assessment. He probably is looking through Coloured Glass? Now the other part is the point about the inevitability of restarting talks. He has already mentioned that it should never have been stalled - perhaps he prefers to be in the camp of uninterruptible and uninterrupted chumps!

I think that it has already been established that talks were offered with a certain expectations right at the outset. The moment the other side tried to do the usual trick of having talks and at the same time doing everything to destabilize the situation, it was called off at the first instance of a High Commissioner meeting the Rats of Kashmir. After that, despite many attempts as well pleadings at international forums the only thing that came as a response was - We are ready to talk, but not under the threat of terror or guns, if you resort to that, you will pay a high price. Clear and unambiguous.

It is indeed clear that things have changed on the ground, at the strategic level and even at international geo political levels.

Just a ramble. Take it for what it is worth.

[Brad Goodman]

After Karachi attack, Navy sounds alert on terror from sea