Sri Lanka - News and Discussion

pushkar.bhat · Post by **pushkar.bhat** » 05 Jul 2014 19:05

Seems the Malaysian authorities are trying to round up the remanents of the LTTE. The ToIlet paper published this today.

Is LTTE trying to revive movement using Malaysia as transit point?

pushkar.bhat · Post by **pushkar.bhat** » 05 Jul 2014 19:07

Philip wrote:Learning from the Lankans.

https://www.strategypage.com/qnd/nigeri ... 40620.aspx

Its seems that Uncle SAM flipped the moment he heard of it and there were some not so supportive grunting noises that were heard..

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 05 Jul 2014 22:57

x-post from China threat thread.

schinnas wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Xi set for historic Sri Lanka visit - Ananth Krishnan, Meera Srinivasan, The Hindu
It is very easy for Indian government to turn the table here. Just needs a little imagination. The moment India and srilanka has road and rail connectivity between each other, the trade will increase 5x and tourism and people to people contacts will increase 10x. indian corporates will triple their investments in sri lanka. you heard it here first, folks. i must concede that the credit for road connection with SL goes to the visionary Tamil poet Mahakavi Bharathi.

Given the geographical proximity, historical, religious and civilizational ties between two countries, it is a shame that we are sweating Chinese influence in SL. Unlike Nepal, China does not share a border with SL and there are limits to any China card that SL can play against India. However, ensuring a peaceful future for SL Tamils will need to be part of the plan. Direct road and rail connectivity will actually help the plight of SL Tamils and if the PR is dextrously handled and the key players such as JJ and Vaiko are roped in constructively, it is possible to make substantial win-win progress in our plans with SL. SL population, both Tamil and Singhalese will appreciate the access to Indian educational institutions for their kids and sophisticated health care access to their population. SL can substantially boost their tourism revenue from Indians.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Sep 2014 07:18

DUBIOUS LEGACY, HARD TO TRUST

DUBIOUS LEGACY, HARD TO TRUST

Monday, 01 September 2014 | Kumar Chellappan | in Oped

The hypocrisy of TNA leaders was exposed recently by their decision to boycott the 150th birth anniversary of Swami Vivekananda in Colombo. India must not give weightage to this combine which claims to represent Sri Lankan Tamils

What was described as a tear drop in the Indian Ocean in 2009 has emerged as the Wonder of Asia. Putting the three-decade long civil war which claimed more than 75,000 lives and ravaged its economy behind it, Sri Lanka is fast emerging as a developed country. If the number of Asian and European countries courting Sri lanka for trade agreements is any indication, the day is not far away when global attention shifts to Sri Lanka from Hong Kong and Taiwan.

India has to be more diligent and careful in dealing with Sri Lanka which is hardly 30 minutes away by boat from Dhanushkodi in Tamil Nadu. The perennial Tamil ethnic issue should never be allowed to disturb the equilibrium between the two nations. The Tamil National Alliance, an umbrella organisation representing various factions which were demanding a separate country for the Tamils in the island nation till the other day, is pressuring India to convince the Sri Lankan Government for devolving more power to the Northern Province Council as per the 13th Amendment of the Sri Lankan Constitution. This amendment was made following the 1987 accord signed between then Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi and then Sri Lankan President Junius Jayewardene.

The period from 1987 to 2009 saw murder and mayhem in the island nation. The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, the most ruthless and dreaded terrorist organisation in the world, had a free run in Sri Lanka and India striking at its will and pleasure anywhere anytime killing all who posed challenge to it. More Tamils than Sinhala leaders fell to the bullets and bombs of the LTTE assassins.

Sri Lanka, with an area of 65, 610 sq km and a population of 2.02 crore, is half the size of Tamil Nadu (area 130,058 sq km and population of 7.2 crore). India and the island are separated by the Palk Strait in the Indian Ocean. A yacht or a speed boat may not take more than 15 minutes to reach Talaimannar in Sri Lanka from Dhanushkodi in Tamil Nadu. Still, the countries have become distant neighbours because of this perennial Tamil problem.

Sinhalas constitute 75 per cent of the population, out of which five per cent is Christians. Tamils constitute 16 per cent while the remaining nine per cent comprises Tamil-speaking Muslims. But what is left unsaid is that seven per cent of the total Tamil population is described as Tamils of Indian Origin who reside in southern and central Sri Lanka. They were brought to Sri Lanka by the then colonial British rulers to be employed as plantation workers and coolies etc. Tamils in Jaffna and the Eastern Provinces, who describe themselves as Sri Lankan Tamils, look down on the Tamils in Colombo as second class citizens!

Radha Rajan, a social activist based in Chennai has this to tell about the Jaffna Tamils. “A few years ago I met Shri Sampandan at his residence in Mandaivelli. In the course of the detailed talk we discussed the issue of the eventual return of Tamil refugees back to Sri Lanka. At this juncture, Shri Sampandan told me that while he too wished for the time when Sri Lankan Tamil refugees in India could return home, he was not in favour of the idea of Sri Lankan Tamils of Indian origin coming back to Sri Lanka. They belong here, in India, he said. And having come here, why should they return to Sri Lanka? he asked”, says Rajan about the meeting.

According to Prof MGS Narayananan, leading historian and former chairman, Indian Council of Historical Research, the Sri Lankan Tamils are the descendants of people from Malabar who migrated to Ceylon (the earlier name of the island). Unlike India, Sri Lanka is not a secular country. Budhism is the State religion and there are no reservation and quota systems. To demand the Sri Lankan Government to behave as per the whims and fancies of political parties in Tamil Nadu is asking for too much. Let’s only discuss what is happening right now because a cursory glance into past deeds may pose uncomfortable questions. Diplomats and politicians of the 1970s and 1980s vintage are still groping in the dark when asked about the reasons behind the massive financial and logistic support given to the LTTE and other terrorist organisations by India for fomenting trouble in the island nation.

One has lost count of the number of people massacred by the LTTE in Sri Lanka and abroad. More than 24,000 soldiers of the Sri Lankan Army and 28,000 sailors and officers of the country’s navy lost their lives in the three-decade long war.

The present generation of Sinhala population is of the view that the 1987 accord was something which was forced upon them by ‘big brother’ India. Avadh Kaushal, who heads the Rural Entitlement and Litigation Kendra, Dehradun, says it was unfair on the part of India to offer arms and ammunition to the LTTE to fight the Sri Lankan Government. Kaushal has been nominated by President Mahinda Rajapaksa as an adviser to the presidential commission studying the excesses committed during the Eelam War.

Intelligence agencies have found out that there exists a strong nexus between extremists both in Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka and other secessionists operating in India. Kashmiri separatist leader Yasin Malik coming to Cuddalore in Tamil Nadu and SAR Geelani, an accused in the Parliament attack case, being honoured by human rights activists at Chennai, do not augur well for India.

The aim of the Dravida movements in Tamil Nadu was to establish a separate Dravida country for the Tamils. CN Annadurai, former DMK chief, was forced to put the demand for a separate Dravida nation on the back-burner only because of the 16th Amendment of the Constitution enacted in 1963. A separate Tamil Eelam in Sri Lanka is detrimental to India’s integrity. There are strong Tamil chauvinist groups in Tamil Nadu waiting in the wings to unleash the demand for a separate Dravida land once the Sri Lanka Eelam becomes a reality.

The Roman Catholic Church and the European countries, which prop up the Tamil separatists in Sri Lanka, have in mind the experience of East Timor in Indonesia. The archipelago which has more than 88 per cent Muslim population was forced to give secession to the Catholic majority islet of East Timor following international pressure.

India should strive hard to bring together Hindu leaders and Budhist monks to the discussion table to sort out all outstanding issues. If the Buddhist monks are convinced about the sincerity of their Hindu brethren, the Tamil issue would get dissipated soon.

The hypocrisy and double standards of the TNA leaders was exposed recently by their decision to boycott the 150th birth anniversary of Swami Vivekananda, which was observed by various groups in Colombo. The TNA leaders boycotted the function because of the presence of Mr Douglas Devananda, a Tamil Minister in the Rajapaksa Government. But the TNA had no qualms in attending the 100th birthday function of Thaninayakam, a Catholic priest, at Jaffna, though Mr Devananda was one of the chief guests.

According to Ms Shenali Waduge, who has studied the ethnic issue in detail, Tamil and Sinhala Christians are the ones who create the divide between India and Sri Lanka. “The church is aiming for a Christian Eelam. Sri Lanka’s north is under Christian influence. Why do Christian priests act as spokesmen of the Hindu majority in north Sri Lanka?” asks Waduge, who exposed the role of Adele Balasingham, the widow of Anton Balasingham who recruited and ran the women’s wing of the LTTE by openly flouting all norms of human rights.

If you want to see the camaraderie that exists between Sinhalas and Tamils, the tea distribution company owned by Ramasamy in downtown Colombo is an example. Since the last four decades, cartons of tea sold by Ramasamy is being distributed around the country by his Sinhala employees. And take the case of the eminent cardio-thoracic surgeon, Dr Ravi Perumal Pillai. The super-special cardiology hospital he is setting up at Jaffna for Tamils is to be supported by Sinha Ratnatunga, a veteran journalist.

The demand by the Northern Provincial Council of Sri Lanka for more administrative powers is untimely at this juncture. The country has just come out of a bloody civil war and it will take time for the wounds to heal. Ilankai Tamil Arasu Katchi, one of the major constituents of the TNA, still swears by a separate country for Tamils. In light of this, how can the political leadership in the island nation trust the TNA’s credentials?

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 02 Sep 2014 00:00

That is a way to look at the conflict. In fact, it will further help in quelling separatists demands when Tamils affected by conflict and who moved India move back. Such viewpoints should not go out of mind when lives of Indians and of course defense forces are affected over time.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Sep 2014 07:04

The LTTE and their ilk,were nothing more than quislings for the western powers that wanted the dismemberment of India from the south.As I've written for years,western missionaries brought English teaching and institutions first to the Jaffna north.The educated Jaffna Tamils of the north,who held the Indian Tamils in the plantations with utter contempt,treating them as "coolies",were used as willign stool pigeons of their colonial masters to run the country.After Independence the pendulum rightly swung in the other direction where 75% of the country are Sinhalese,who had been suppressed along with their language by the British,who divided ethnic groups and ruled .The church in the north of the island has played an insidious role in attempting to support the fascist LTTE separatists,who received massive financial,military,diplomatic and logistic help from the Western powers and the Jaffna Tamil diaspora.

Their arrogance made them believe that victory was inevitable,first Rajiv G was assassinated to remove the obstacle of India interfering and supporting a united Lanka,scores of Lankan politicians,leaders,military top brass ,including thousands of Tamils who refused to cow down to the LTTE and its massive recruitment by force of child soldiers as cannon fodder,along with tens of thousands of innocent Lankan civilians were assassinated,murdered and massacred. The Western powers in particular the US,Britain,Norway,Oz and Canada,have bloodstained hands and mouths dripping with the blood of the victims. India under any circumstances cannot drop its guard and be fooled yet again by the connivances of the West and Jaffna Tamils who are the greatest backstabbers and traitors in recent history .

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 Sep 2014 20:03

X Posted from the STFUP thread with a hat tip to BRF poster Kancha.

Wisden reporting on the incident where cricket player from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, Ahmed Shehzad, was subjecting Sri Lankan Buddhist cricket player Tillakaratne Dilshan to Mohammadden Supremacist clap trap.

Wisden provides text version of what Ahmed Shahzad said and also confirms that Tillakaratne Dilshan was a convert to Buddhism from Mohammaddenism. Video of incident is embedded:

Television footage of the incident shows Shehzad saying that when a non-Muslim converts to Islam, no matter whatever he does in life he goes straight to heaven.

“…if you are a non-Muslim and you turn Muslim, no matter whatever you do in your life… straight to heaven.” Dilshan’s reply was incoherent, but Shehzad went on the add, “Then, be ready for fire.”

PCB to probe Shehzad-Dilshan chat

Tuan · Post by **Tuan** » 13 Sep 2014 21:59

Delighted to see when there are Indians like Subramaniam Swamy, there would also be a true voice for justice like Prof. V. Suryanarayan
http://www.newindianexpress.com/columns ... 422757.ece

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 23 Sep 2014 18:59

The bonhomie between China and Lanka at the moment,with a decision to consolidate defence ties for its "all-weather friend",Sri Lanka,is a red rag to the bull,India.It is past time for the GOI to turn the screws upon the island's rulers and to remind them that China is thousands of miles away with India just minutes away from taking any military action should it so desire in the future.Any presence of Chinese military forces on the island,advisers,whatever,which I anticipate to happen sooner rather than later,will be the pincer movement to encircle India from its vulnerable underbelly,the south.The decision to station MKIs at Tanjore airbase is a reaction to the planned Chinese maritime move,also targeting the Maldives.The GOI should make it abundantly clear to both nations that the stationing of any Chines emil. forces in both island nations will be tantamount to a declaration of war against India and that India will take whatever means it decides to neutralise the same.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 23 Sep 2014 21:24

chetak wrote:DUBIOUS LEGACY, HARD TO TRUST

Even if I tried hard, it would be difficult for me to write an article dumber or more removed from reality. The article totally ignores the key issue that Srilankan chauvinistic fascist state oppressed the rights of Tamils and even now refuses to give equal rights to Tamils. Demand for a separate country is a result of that Srilankan state oppression. Vast majority of Srilankan tamils are not interested in separate country if equal rights can be guaranteed.

India will lose all of its moral fibre and spiritual strength if does not stand up for its fundamental unique characteristic that it is its destiny to represent in the world - respect for plurality and diversity - both in means of seeking divinity and in social structure. Highly disappointing to read such a farticle in Pioneer who claims to follow Sri Aurobindo and Swami Vivekananda. May be the author of this farticle would do well to read Sri Aurobindo and Swami Vivekananda on India's purpose in the world - why India gets so much divine Grace despite Indians time and again not deserving it.

Acting like a pure opportunistic bania without any moral fiber is the fastest way for Bharat to lose its relevance in cosmic scheme of things. What keeps India together is her Spiritual destiny and how sincerely she adheres to it - not what some mortals think and scheme in their leisure.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Sep 2014 12:31

^^^^

India will not accept anyone interfering in her internal affairs, why should srilanka tolerate it, just because they are a tiny country that we can bully??. Why don't we have the b@!!& to condemn the US or Russia or China?? Because they would simply turn around and r@p# us publicly and sanction us economically.

Any philosophy to the contrary be damned, no matter who espouses it or espoused it. India's purpose in the world is for it to look after itself and prosper. Not to poke it's nose and encourage secessionist tendencies in other sovereign states. Srilankan tamils are welcome to try and come back to India and live by our Indian laws or stay there and live by lankan laws. Choose one, they cannot have their cake and eat it too.

BTW, India is equally a chauvinistic fascist state which also oppressed and continues to oppress the rights of the dravidian Tamils and even now refuses to give equal rights to the countless caldwell (pioneering champion of the downtrodden' and an 'avant-garde social reformer', per wiki) converted, poor dravidian Tamils in matters of equal opportunity in reservations and jobs.

Our sermonizing and high horse moral lecturing reduced this once great nation to a universally despised and marginalized country, taken there by that prize moron JLN who apparently couldn't recognize his own a@#$% from a hole in the ground. His policies and ideas caused deep poverty and distress in the aam aadmi for generations and yet we drone on and on about "India will lose all of its moral fibre and spiritual strength if does not stand up for its fundamental unique characteristic that it is its destiny to represent in the world - respect for plurality and diversity - both in means of seeking divinity and in social structure."

Secure your own house and people first and foremost before you dare to look at the house of any neighbor with critical and judgmental eyes. srilanka could easily turn around and tell us quite a few home truths which we will not like to hear but have absolutely but absolutely no defence against.

In the meanwhile

Twenty-two countries back Sri Lanka against UN probe into war crimes

Colombo: Sri Lanka has won the backing of 22 nations in its battle against the UN's war crimes probe into the country's human rights record during its brutal civil war.

A government statement said the countries in a joint statement had termed the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) resolution passed last March as an intrusive mandate and unwarranted in the context of Sri Lanka's own local investigation.

The like minded group chaired by Egypt included Algeria, Angola, Bangladesh, Belarus, Bolivia, China, Cuba, Ecuador, Indonesia, Iran, North Korea, Myanmar, Nicaragua, Pakistan,Russia, South Sudan, Sudan, Uganda, Venezuela and Zimbabwe. This support was in addition to the concerns raised by
India as Sri Lanka's all important giant neighbour had questioned the methodology of the investigation.

This is in view of Sri Lanka's decision not to cooperate with the investigation. India backed the US-sponsored 2012 and 2013 UNHRC resolutions which pinned Colombo to a credible process of reconciliation with the Tamil minority. However, India much to the delight of Sri Lanka abstained at the crucial vote last March which mandated an international investigation.

Sri Lanka's opposition is based on its reliance to deliver reconciliation and justice through its own mechanism. Colombo dubs the UN investigation as one which impedes its sovereignty.

The UNHRC resolution had alleged war crimes blamed on both government troops and LTTE rebels during the final phase of the three-decade civil war. The UN says 30,000 people were killed towards the end of the ethnic conflict in 2009 when the LTTE was finally crushed.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 27 Sep 2014 13:07

schinnas wrote:Even if I tried hard, it would be difficult for me to write an article dumber or more removed from reality. The article totally ignores the key issue that Srilankan chauvinistic fascist state oppressed the rights of Tamils and even now refuses to give equal rights to Tamils. Demand for a separate country is a result of that Srilankan state oppression.

Dude, isn't the same argument being used against India by Pakistan and Kashmiri separatists regarding Kashmir?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Sep 2014 13:11

SanjayC wrote:
schinnas wrote:Even if I tried hard, it would be difficult for me to write an article dumber or more removed from reality. The article totally ignores the key issue that Srilankan chauvinistic fascist state oppressed the rights of Tamils and even now refuses to give equal rights to Tamils. Demand for a separate country is a result of that Srilankan state oppression.
Dude, isn't the same argument being used against India by Pakistan and Kashmiri separatists regarding Kashmir?

Exactly saar,

People in glass houses and all that.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 01 Oct 2014 23:20

Therawada Buddhists from Myanmar and Sri Lanka getting together to combat the Islamist threat.

https://screen.yahoo.com/hardline-buddh ... 05136.html

We discussed this many years ago. Hindus and Buddhists need to combine forces together to combat the Monotheistic rampage in Asia.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 07 Oct 2014 10:40

Desh has successfully restored the Rail link to Jaffna (Yazhppanam) and the first train from Colombo is set to arrive next week. Atlast we have grown a pair and not yield to grand standing by TN politicians.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... epage=true

The board itself speaks of the reconciliation which has happened within SL.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 07 Oct 2014 11:06

chetak wrote:^^^^

India will not accept anyone interfering in her internal affairs, why should srilanka tolerate it, just because they are a tiny country that we can bully??. Why don't we have the b@!!& to condemn the US or Russia or China?? Because they would simply turn around and r@p# us publicly and sanction us economically.

What do you call India's support for Tibetan refugees and hosting Tibetan government in exile? It is one of the few principled stands that I am proud of India for.

What you have to say about India's intervention in East Pakistan in 1971. If that is OK to you but interfering in Sri Lanka where people of Indian origin suffer and where we have a refugee problem due to ethnically biased policies of the government is not OK for you, then that sounds hypocritical.

There are lot of flaws in your argument and it is not clear whether you even know enough about Sri lankan problem. With due respect, I suggest you read up on Sri lankan issue to update yourself.

member_28714 · Post by **member_28714** » 07 Oct 2014 11:54

Paul wrote:Therawada Buddhists from Myanmar and Sri Lanka getting together to combat the Islamist threat.

https://screen.yahoo.com/hardline-buddh ... 05136.html

We discussed this many years ago. Hindus and Buddhists need to combine forces together to combat the Monotheistic rampage in Asia.

when these guys get serious, they will all come running to india and china due to common threats. but ultimately they will come to bharat more than china due to dharmic cause against militant islam. i think, and hope.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 07 Oct 2014 12:37

chetak wrote:
SanjayC wrote: Dude, isn't the same argument being used against India by Pakistan and Kashmiri separatists regarding Kashmir?
Exactly saar,

People in glass houses and all that.

The argument falls flat on the ground on multiple counts. Constitutionally Kashmiris enjoy more than equal rights. On the other hand that is not the case in Sri Lanka or in East Pakistan. Sri lankan situation is comparable to that of East Pakistan (where India did decisively interfere) and not Kashmir. For what is worth, India did interfere in Sri Lanka to correct the systematic discrimination but flundered due to idiotic policies of some MEA officials who had no clue about Sri lankan situation and tried to play little games and groomed terrorists like Prabhakaran that they couldnt control.

The utter lack of knowledge about Sri Lanka displayed here by some posters is astounding to say the least. I wonder if some of these MEA mandarins who made such a mess in Srilanka could have been as clueless.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 07 Oct 2014 12:48

^^^ This is correct. Kashmir is NOT equivalent to even Scotland, much less Tibet, Sri Lankan Tamil areas, Kurdistan, etc.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 07 Oct 2014 13:35

What role the Aryan/Dravidian fault line is playing in today's Lanka ?

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 07 Oct 2014 16:59

Pratyush wrote:What role the Aryan/Dravidian fault line is playing in today's Lanka ?

Not much. It plays more of a role in Tamil Nadu than in Sri Lanka. Indians to understand Sri Lankan issue need to start viewing Srilanka without getting colored by prejudices and impressions of India. Also most Indians have a very benign view of Buddhism but in Sri Lanka Buddhism had acquired some fascist tendencies disassociating it from Hinduism. While EJs might try to fish in troubled SL waters, they have very little to do with the root issue that has been simmering for several decades.

The problem in Sri Lanka can be traced back to evolution of Singhalese chauvinism which has led to Sri Lanka's narrow minded constitution (when compared to India). When even a country like Singapore is inclusive of its ethnic and linguistic minorities and have multiple state languages, Lanka chose to define herself as Singhalese Buddhist unitary state with a Singhala only languge policy in most instances. A federal inclusive set up with local government for distinct regions similar to India would have ensured that no problem even arose in Sri Lanka. The indian origin tamils are confined to tea estates and have been deprived of most rights (including voting and citizenship in many cases) by Sri Lankans and have been subjected to forced family planning.

Contrary to what many Indians ignorantly assume, Sri Lankan Tamils (as opposed to Indian tamils in Sri Lanka) are as native to Sri Lanka as Singhalese themselves. In recorded history of Sri Lanka there existed two distinct kingdoms in Lanka that had been warring with each other for territorial gains but the population themselves lived amicably. Until 50 years ago, it was very common to find Tamils (predominantly Hindus) and Singhalese (predominantly buddhists) visit each others places of worship, celebrate festivals and even inter-marry amicably.

If one studies deeply without prejudice it will be evident that institutionalized discrimination and ethnic and linguistic oppression is at the root of the problem in Sri Lanka. Most Sri Lankan Tamils just want equal rights under a united Sri Lanka in a federal set up similar to India. Demand for a separate country called Ealam was encouraged unfortunately by India and hijacked by Pirabhakaran and his terror outfit (who were groomed and trained by India in their initial days in a very open manner). Even today, most neutral observers and majority Sri Lankan Tamils will agree to live in united Sri lanka but with equal rights and dignity which is what India should bring about - especially given all the mess and resulting deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians caused in part by India's incompetent meddling in Sri Lanka. We have an unfinished business there and it is time to wash the blood of our hands and bring closure in a fair manner.

Unfortunately many ignoramus in India know very little about the root issues in Sri Lanka and equate it with a motivated unjustified separatist movement which it is not in its essence. How we help resolve Sri Lankan issue can be a good model for other similar problems in the world.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 07 Oct 2014 18:30

"The argument falls flat on the ground on multiple counts. Constitutionally Kashmiris enjoy more than equal rights."

Definitely, the comparison between Kashmiris and Sri Lankan Tamils is utterly false. In no phase- religion, language, economics, freedom, stature,do Kashmiri Moslems and Sri Lankan Tamils equate.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 07 Oct 2014 23:44

Pratyush wrote:What role the Aryan/Dravidian fault line is playing in today's Lanka ?

The Brits convinced the Sinhalas that they were of "Aryan" stock while the Tamils were of Dravidian stock. In my personal interactions with Sinhalas, some of them do mention being of some "pure" lineage - probably to distinguish themselves from other Sinhalas who intermarried with their Tamil neighbors. Some people say that a section if Sinhalas came from Bihar.

The Brits had also cultivated Sri Lankan Tamils in terms of education, etc., while the Sinhala majority had been left mostly rustic. That also lead to Sinhala fears of being dominated by a minority.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 08 Oct 2014 01:30

Shinnas, Thats a good post and highlights all the main points.
--------------------

There is no equivalence between India/IA in Kashmir vs Lanka in Jaffna.
Talk about own goals….

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 08 Oct 2014 06:46

schinnas wrote:
chetak wrote:^^^^

India will not accept anyone interfering in her internal affairs, why should srilanka tolerate it, just because they are a tiny country that we can bully??. Why don't we have the b@!!& to condemn the US or Russia or China?? Because they would simply turn around and r@p# us publicly and sanction us economically.
What do you call India's support for Tibetan refugees and hosting Tibetan government in exile? It is one of the few principled stands that I am proud of India for.

What you have to say about India's intervention in East Pakistan in 1971. If that is OK to you but interfering in Sri Lanka where people of Indian origin suffer and where we have a refugee problem due to ethnically biased policies of the government is not OK for you, then that sounds hypocritical.

There are lot of flaws in your argument and it is not clear whether you even know enough about Sri lankan problem. With due respect, I suggest you read up on Sri lankan issue to update yourself.

Every time we interfered, the consequences have been horrendous (for us). I do not see the GOI championing the rights of minorities in pakistan or bangladesh. You should be able to see clearly just WHO is pushing what specific agenda by talking about "tamil rights" in srilanka.

Time to mind our own business and get on with our work.

Tamils outside of India have voluntarily left the country for their better economic benefits and prospects. Good for them, but in some way they have clearly said we prefer not to be in India.

More power to them but they are no longer Indians. No need for us to study the "srilankan" issue as you say because it is after all a "srilankan" issue.

we owe them (non Indian tamils) nothing, just as they owe us nothing. Scoring own goals is our civilization forte for some silly misguided notion of justice and fairness. Looking at this from the srilankan point of view, our stand is neither fair nor justified and since it is their country and their people, their point must prevail over all else from India.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 08 Oct 2014 06:59

Theo_Fidel wrote:Shinnas, Thats a good post and highlights all the main points.
--------------------

There is no equivalence between India/IA in Kashmir vs Lanka in Jaffna.
Talk about own goals….

The kashmiri POV is that India / IA is oppressing them and the Lankan tamil POV is that srilanka / Srilankan army is oppressing them. This is how each of them have portrayed it to the world and both seek secessionist solutions. Still can't make the connection??

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 16 Oct 2014 17:57

European Court has declared LTTE as non terrorist organisation. The EU Court Judges have gone absolutely Mad. Now this needs to be tackled expeditiously by GOI. VAIKO has already welcomed the move. It is surely give some oxygen to the dead organisation in SL but TN politics will get surcharged.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 16 Oct 2014 18:08

chaanakya wrote:European Court has declared LTTE as non terrorist organisation. The EU Court Judges have gone absolutely Mad. Now this needs to be tackled expeditiously by GOI. VAIKO has already welcomed the move. It is surely give some oxygen to the dead organisation in SL but TN politics will get surcharged.

Now, if anyone points this out as an EJ coloured and EJ motivated judgement, then they run the risk of being accused of not understanding srilankan politics or history.

east timor, East Timor!!

How can the ltte be a terrorist organization?? It like blaspheming the amrekis for defending themselves in iraq and afghanistan onlee.

It just the dance of democracy to a slightly different beat

that can only be heard in the European Court

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 16 Oct 2014 18:20

schinnas wrote:
Pratyush wrote:What role the Aryan/Dravidian fault line is playing in today's Lanka ?
Not much. It plays more of a role in Tamil Nadu than in Sri Lanka. Indians to understand Sri Lankan issue need to start viewing Srilanka without getting colored by prejudices and impressions of India. Also most Indians have a very benign view of Buddhism but in Sri Lanka Buddhism had acquired some fascist tendencies disassociating it from Hinduism. While EJs might try to fish in troubled SL waters, they have very little to do with the root issue that has been simmering for several decades.

The problem in Sri Lanka can be traced back to evolution of Singhalese chauvinism which has led to Sri Lanka's narrow minded constitution (when compared to India). When even a country like Singapore is inclusive of its ethnic and linguistic minorities and have multiple state languages, Lanka chose to define herself as Singhalese Buddhist unitary state with a Singhala only languge policy in most instances. A federal inclusive set up with local government for distinct regions similar to India would have ensured that no problem even arose in Sri Lanka. The indian origin tamils are confined to tea estates and have been deprived of most rights (including voting and citizenship in many cases) by Sri Lankans and have been subjected to forced family planning.

Contrary to what many Indians ignorantly assume, Sri Lankan Tamils (as opposed to Indian tamils in Sri Lanka) are as native to Sri Lanka as Singhalese themselves. In recorded history of Sri Lanka there existed two distinct kingdoms in Lanka that had been warring with each other for territorial gains but the population themselves lived amicably. Until 50 years ago, it was very common to find Tamils (predominantly Hindus) and Singhalese (predominantly buddhists) visit each others places of worship, celebrate festivals and even inter-marry amicably.

If one studies deeply without prejudice it will be evident that institutionalized discrimination and ethnic and linguistic oppression is at the root of the problem in Sri Lanka. Most Sri Lankan Tamils just want equal rights under a united Sri Lanka in a federal set up similar to India. Demand for a separate country called Ealam was encouraged unfortunately by India and hijacked by Pirabhakaran and his terror outfit (who were groomed and trained by India in their initial days in a very open manner). Even today, most neutral observers and majority Sri Lankan Tamils will agree to live in united Sri lanka but with equal rights and dignity which is what India should bring about - especially given all the mess and resulting deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians caused in part by India's incompetent meddling in Sri Lanka. We have an unfinished business there and it is time to wash the blood of our hands and bring closure in a fair manner.

Unfortunately many ignoramus in India know very little about the root issues in Sri Lanka and equate it with a motivated unjustified separatist movement which it is not in its essence. How we help resolve Sri Lankan issue can be a good model for other similar problems in the world.

root or no root, here's the hard fact.

srilanka is not a "secular" country like India is. Neither is pakiland or bangladesh or china. I don't see or hear any one here piping up for our "Indian" Hindu biradari there.

The sinhalese have chosen, as a free country, to have such a constitution. We don't have to like it. we have to just lump it.

It's their country and hence their business. Fortunately many ignoramus in India don't need to know anything about the root issues in Sri Lanka because it does not have any bearing on the cunning but completely illegal case being made up by kattarpanthi EJ tamils in Tamil nadu for India to interfere in srilanka.

The funding for these EJs are obvious for all to see by the fact that it is the same frocked clan that turns up every time mischiefs' afoot.

It's their country, their people and only their business. We can however continue to build houses for them in a non interfering and non political manner.

Please to do all your theorizing, this side of the border onlee. Otherwise it's called interference in the internal affairs of a friendly country.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 16 Oct 2014 19:21

Titbit.The CSI's territory ,overseen by the Moderator (chief bishop) also includes Jaffna . The link between EJs in India and Northern SL is all too obvious and the funds in the main are coming from well known western nations.The KKNPP demos were well orchestrated by quisling Udayakumar with some church support.There are several cases against him for the same.His US links are also well known.

What is a highly retrogade action by the GOSL is the immediate announcement after the reopening of the rail link to the Jaffna peninsula and the Yal Devi resuming her operations,that foreigners have to get permission to go to the north.The GOI has spent millions of $$$ in restoring the link.As a TNA spokesman said,the current regime is "dividing the country" after the rail link has united it!

Other matters apart,as Chetak has said,SL is a sovereign independent nation. Most issues are for them to decide upon.Where they have involved India as a facilitator and good neighbour in the past,with specific agreements,we have a part to play.Ignoramuses are stepping in where angels fear to tread..

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 27 Oct 2014 03:24

Generally two arguments are put forward by those against India helping to resolve the issue of oppression of Sri Lankan Tamils. It is necessary to repeatedly deconstruct both these arguments given the lack of intelligent public debates in our media on this topic.

1st argument:: "Isnt Sri Lankan problem similar to Kashmir? Wouldnt KMs (Kashmiri Muslims) make an ==?"
No. In such instances, Equivalence is established based on root cause and facts on the ground. Not based on demands and claims in Media. Note that sickular media tried to do an == of Gujarat 2002 with Nazis but it didnt stick. The fact is KMs enjoy more than equal rights as per constitution and special priviledges and grants that do not extend to rest of India. On the other hand Sri Lankan Tamils are constitutionally treated as second class citizens. Secondly, Sri Lankan Tamil's resistance started only as a movement for securing equal rights under a unified Sri Lanka. The demand got escalated to a separatist movement only after repeated backstabbing of Singhalese government, a badly fumbled Indian intervention and got extremely violent thanks to state terrorism and terrorism of LTTE. Most SL Tamils will admin in private that demand for separate Eelam is often used as a bargaining chip in negotiations. Only Prbhakharan believed in it fiercely as an ideal. India can bring about a negotiated constitutional resolution to the problem under a unified Sri Lanka which will actually show it to KMs the futility of their stupid exercise.

2nd Argument:: "It is not India's business to interfere in internal affairs of other countries. We wouldnt like others to interfere in our affairs why would we interfere in theirs?"
Nothing could be far from truth. Being a responsible and large power comes with it expectations and responsibilities. One should not aspire for power if not willing to take the responsibility. India even when it was powerless compared to its current state has always stood up to what was right in most instances. Ex: India was strongly against the apartied in South Africa and against colonialism in general. India did help African countries get up on their feet in 60s and 70s which has built lot of good will that is leveraged even today. Closer to home, India stood up (though meekly) against occupation of Tibet and oppression of Tibetian religious and cultural rights. Despite repeated pressure and a war with China, India continues to give refugee status to Tibetan government in exile. Most notably, India decisively intervened in East Pakistan to liberate Bangladesh.

India has no business to aspire for a regional leader status or permenant member of UNSC if India is unwilling to set her own immediate neighbourood in order. Besides, India has a large refugee problem due to Sri Lankan issue making it very similar to the 1971 situation. Because of geography and history (both cultural and recent history) and refugee issue, India IS a very involved party and only India alone can help bring about a lasting solution to Srilanka.

For a country that aspires to a regional power status and UNSC status, this is a non-sensical argument that hurts India's ambitions.

Idealogically, India is Jagatguru of the world and not a shameless bania nation that can afford to look at everything through an utilitarian prism. The Divine Grace that has sustained India through all these millenniums is only because India is meant to perform that role. The moment as a Nation we turn away from it, that will be the end of Bharath. It is highly shameful for people who claim to be inspired by Swami Vivekananda and Sri Aurobindo to even propose such arguments. These Sages have spoken / written extensively on this topic - what should be the purpose of India in the world. It was highly disappointing to see such arguments even in the Pioneer that claims to follow the foot steps of these hallowed Seers. Personally for me, this idealogical aspect is most important. If not for it, India would degrade to a soul-less, merely utilitarian geographic entity that has no special reason for existence and can logically be carved in any way for administrative and utilitarian purposes by her citizens.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 27 Oct 2014 03:24

Deleted. Double post.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Oct 2014 05:07

^^^^^^

The same old hoary chestnuts being pulled out again and dusted off. Give it a rest, dude.

srilanka, soverign nation, no interference, period.

The amrekis, withdrew shamefully from iraq and now imminently from afghanistan. They have lost their mojo in the comity of nations, almost a pariah nation now, limping along painfully, after taking the financial hits for the WOT. Are you asking to go that route??

In the meanwhile, TR Baaaaaaalu's and Sasikala's fishing boats are repeatedly crossing the international border into srilanka and INSISTING, nay DEMANDING on the right to go fishing in their territorial waters.

Surely, Jagatguru India, inspired by, as you claim, Swami Vivekananda and Sri Aurobindo (who, surely must be turning over in their graves) would have something to say about that.

Surely, even you appreciate that foolish and soft "Jagatguru" India gave away too many "rights" to the KMs, and the sinhalese seem to have learned well from that costly mistake.

For people who do not understand real realpolitik and attempt to screw the nation, nature always provides a Godse to even out the scales.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 27 Oct 2014 05:52

/\/\/\

Edited: Chetak-ji, I will appreciate if you stick to merits of the argument. You seem to assume that I suggest we send IPKF again. No... mistakes need not be repeated. Also, I do not think EJ argument is very related to what I posted. They are just fishing in troubled waters. I am talking about how water got troubled and why / how we should clear the water. You seem to be saying because EJ's are fighing in troubled waters, we should keep a hands-off policy.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Oct 2014 06:10

schinnas wrote:/\/\/\

You can choose to repeat irrelevant comment ad nauseum. But don't expect others to tow your line. BTW, I am impressed with your ability to bring irrelevant facts into a discussion when you have nothing original to offer to a discussion. Truly impressed! BTW, did you forget to mention about some EJ having some links with Srilanka or some TN politicians?

It's a free country, schinnas ji, but personal attacks are frowned upon.

Similarly don't expect others to follow the patently fallacious "Jagatguru" India argument.

The sinhala are as much Indian as the the TN politicians claim that the tamils are. Either we take them both and deal with them equitably in accordance with the lankan constitution or reject them both in accordance with the Indian constitution. Take your pick.

It's been common experience that folks (not all, but a great many) who quote freely from the Hindu scriptures and invoke Hindu icons, to buttress their weak arguments, often have a bible in their hands.

No need to belabor the EJ point schinnas ji. None so blind as he who will not see. If you are EJ, say so. We will understand.

bishop caldwell and his ilk are alive and well in that part of the world (and indeed in other parts as well) and we ignore his devious descendants at our peril. Surely, even you monitored the EJ european court's foolish decision on the ltte not being a terrorist outfit and the resulting jubilant reaction from many TN politicians. Am I wrong about the EJ connections??

The other points that I attempt to make have been made by various other folks far more eruditely that I ever can.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 27 Oct 2014 06:35

Deleted as the post didn't contribute to the discussion at hand.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Oct 2014 06:56

schinnas wrote:So now anybody who has a contrary opinion to Chetak-ji is EJ?!

Wow.. great logic! Truly truly impressive. If you had even bothered to read my post you will understand that I cover Sri Lankan Tamil issue and not about LTTE or your pet EJ peeves. LTTE is dead and gone for all practical purposes except some remnants.

Well.. i can do better by talking to a wall it seems. There is a better chance that may be at some point the wall will understand what I am talking about and respond to what is said.

schinnas, ji

Did I stop you from saying what you want to say?? It's just that I
have another POV, is all.

From the way you quote freely, ideas from the Hindu scriptures, and invoke Hindu icons, to buttress your weak arguments, I have to wonder where you are coming from and whether you have a bible in your hand. No harm if you do.

You may certainly try your luck with the wall. Many walls now have hand painted signs saying "no urinating here". Folks are tired of being pissed upon.

I speak to many sinhalese whose broad POV I am trying to espouse here. I too believe in what they say. In the end, it's their non secular country and non secular constitution and rightly, beyond a point, they don't really care a f@(k about what you or I have to say about them. That's what sovereignty is all about.

BTW, the ltte is very much around and just not so much in srilanka. Why else would the european court rule on them if they were not around?? Be a big mistake to write them off when the majority of the EJ countries have not. We just don't want even the remotest possibility of another east timor.

Surely you cannot pretend to be unaware of all this..

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 27 Oct 2014 07:28

Deleted as it deviated from topic at hand.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Oct 2014 07:53

schinnas wrote:"We just don't want even the remotest possibility of another east timor."

The only remote possibility of East Timor situation is from such callous attitude to plight of Tamils by GoI than any remnant LTTE. If you speak to Tamils on the ground (not Cho or SuSwamy type clowns) than you speak to Singhalese you will understand the reality. Good luck. It would need some humility and open mind to the possibility that you may have got it wrong. Now I have some inkling of how GoI managed to make such a mess of Sri Lankan situation over the years.

Srilankans know that India can arm twist them at any time. Likely the Sri Lankans you speak to should be smoking something and probably shared it with you. For the uninitiated, all notions about Soverignity etc., don't apply when we are impacted by refugees. Besides it never stopped India from interfering in the past.

I admire Cho and SuSwamy. Not vaiko, Jegath Gaspar Raj or the much married kanimozhi.

The sinhalese I speak to are all hard headed businessmen. Except for you and others of your ilk, no one else is smoking anything.

All over India, I speak to the Indian Tamils too, who are in agreement with what I think or to put it more realistically, I am in agreement with what they think.

India can never arm twist the lankans. It can only spoil relations with them and face the chinese and the paki engineered consequences.

Maybe you should choose mamata didi as your new standard bearer. She seems to be doing for the bangladeshis what you want the GOI to do for the lankan tamils and just see how the rest of India has reacted to the TMC and it's terrorist agenda.

I now, see clearly, where you are coming from. No more "Jagatguru" India, I see. Carry on.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Oct 2014 08:09

Coming back to the issue,the media reports a US study that says that India's Lankan engagement to curtail Chinese activity in the island is severely hampered by the actions of TN politicos who are sabotaging engagement. The recent visit of the Lankan Def. Sec.,Gothabhaya R.,brother of the pres.,and the announcement that India would provide the SLN with 2 NOPVs,is very welcome.The Chinese have economically already taken over the island which is hugely in debt to it.The port facilities being built at H'tota and Colombo would allow PLAN nuclear subs to dock. India has to lay its cards on the table with the GOSL and enunciate in no uncertain terms that it it wants to remain as an independent sovereign nation,ANY Chinese or Paki military presence on the island is UNACCEPTABLE.

In Mauritius too there is a massive influx of Chinese,who from a mutual friend says that in his region of the island,next to a large Chinese settlement,all the dogs have disappeared,just like the Kabaragoyas (monitor lizards) around Hambantota when the port was being built by the Chinese! As veteran travel journalist Paul Theroux wrote after visiting China,the disappearance of wildlife and bird species is due to one inescapable (Chinese) fact and that their obits should read,"they were good to eat"!