Indian Space Programme Discussion

member_28797 · Post by **member_28797** » 17 Oct 2014 20:01

Any ideas where the Human Space mission is headed?

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 17 Oct 2014 20:14

GSLV Mark III will be testing the Crew Module.

member_28797 · Post by **member_28797** » 17 Oct 2014 20:18

prasannasimha wrote:GSLV Mark III will be testing the Crew Module.

late 2014 right?

bharats · Post by **bharats** » 17 Oct 2014 20:26

prasannasimha wrote:
I think you should not flip the lid and should understand what I am saying.What I said is he had already voiced his issues before when he commented about MOM (In 2013 and even again in 2014) before.There were counterpoints made by those in ISRO also in response to that. He had an illustrious career but got into the Devas Antrix issue which unfortunately did harm to his career.His public outbursts unfortunately has made him out of the loop in ISRO whereas he could have continued to contribute. His outbursts is precisely why ISRO launched its social media campaign. Of course he has every right to speak his mind in a free country but then,by doing what he is doing now he is unfortunately harming his own position. If he has reservations about the project he can do it and present it formally and in scientific circles and not in public domain for sound bytes.. Look at UR Rao- he continues to contribute to ISRO despite retiring and was actively involved in payload selection. His contributions continue . That is the difference. Do you think that by antagonizing with his former organization he will be able to continue to contribute now ? Or would it be better to be involved and voice his concerns there where actually things could have been implemented?

Anyway not worth discussing - MOM is orbiting Mars - Can we call it back now ?. We have learnt a lot and are getting information and in fact a lot of surprises(for eg the full disc images are the sharpest ones available so far ) and who knows what more surprises are there in store ? We have to move forwards and not dwell on what is in the past. We ahve to concentrate on what more can be learnt with the payloads that we have on it.

We shall not forget the contribution Dr Gopalan Madhavan Nair has given to ISRO community & INDIA. The year he relieved office after spending 42 years in the organization, among the 55 successful missions at ISRO till date, 25 were during his tenure.

Also don’t forget, specifically, as Project Director, he led the development of Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV) which has since become the workhorse for launching mainly Indian remote sensing satellites. Also he initiated and implemented the establishment of Indian Institute of Space Science and Technology in Trivandrum.

So when he state “The Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) has been on a ‘planned holiday’ and ‘living on past glory’ for the past few years, said former chairman G Madhavan Nair.” There is something spiteful. IMHO, he still not lost his relevance, and his arguments are still viable, we should hear his critics with good spirit and learn to innovate.

And very hard to believe everything is clean and speckles at ISRO. It has its own baggage of bureaucracy hurdles complicated by preferentialism. Not a forum to discussion here; but is worth reading here
http://archive.tehelka.com/story_main51 ... gfight.asp

member_28797 · Post by **member_28797** » 17 Oct 2014 20:35

bharats wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:
I think you should not flip the lid and should understand what I am saying.What I said is he had already voiced his issues before when he commented about MOM (In 2013 and even again in 2014) before.There were counterpoints made by those in ISRO also in response to that. He had an illustrious career but got into the Devas Antrix issue which unfortunately did harm to his career.His public outbursts unfortunately has made him out of the loop in ISRO whereas he could have continued to contribute. His outbursts is precisely why ISRO launched its social media campaign. Of course he has every right to speak his mind in a free country but then,by doing what he is doing now he is unfortunately harming his own position. If he has reservations about the project he can do it and present it formally and in scientific circles and not in public domain for sound bytes.. Look at UR Rao- he continues to contribute to ISRO despite retiring and was actively involved in payload selection. His contributions continue . That is the difference. Do you think that by antagonizing with his former organization he will be able to continue to contribute now ? Or would it be better to be involved and voice his concerns there where actually things could have been implemented?

Anyway not worth discussing - MOM is orbiting Mars - Can we call it back now ?. We have learnt a lot and are getting information and in fact a lot of surprises(for eg the full disc images are the sharpest ones available so far ) and who knows what more surprises are there in store ? We have to move forwards and not dwell on what is in the past. We ahve to concentrate on what more can be learnt with the payloads that we have on it.
We shall not forget the contribution Dr Gopalan Madhavan Nair has given to ISRO community & INDIA. The year he relieved office after spending 42 years in the organization, among the 55 successful missions at ISRO till date, 25 were during his tenure.

Also don’t forget, specifically, as Project Director, he led the development of Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV) which has since become the workhorse for launching mainly Indian remote sensing satellites. Also he initiated and implemented the establishment of Indian Institute of Space Science and Technology in Trivandrum.

So when he state “The Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) has been on a ‘planned holiday’ and ‘living on past glory’ for the past few years, said former chairman G Madhavan Nair.” There is something spiteful. IMHO, he stills not lost his relevance, and his arguments are still viable, we should hear his critics with good spirit and learn to innovate.

And very hard to believe everything is clean and speckles at ISRO. It has its own baggage of bureaucracy hurdles complicated by preferentialism. Not a forum to discussion here; but is worth reading here
http://archive.tehelka.com/story_main51 ... gfight.asp

1.Tehelka is not a reliable news paper
2. I believe G Madhavan saar didn't work at ISRO for 42 years for free, he didn't do any favor to anyone, just his job. It's a different thing that the people of this country thank him for his leadership and taking ISRO in the right direction, but when he starts spouting bs, he needs to be put in his place.
3. Who are you to assume that ISRO is muddled by bureaucratic hurdles? Go and look at the successful missions completed by ISRO in the recent past.
4. Anyone who criticizes ISRO out of spite, is not worth listening to. Constructive criticisms are welcome, what he did was just bashing ISRO. Basically he's trying to say that ISRO was achieving real success when he was the boss.
5. Not every argument has two sides especially when the country is infested with spiteful idiots who can only cry about what's wrong instead of providing a constructive advise.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 17 Oct 2014 20:55

GSLV Mark II is launched with the problems of the cryogenic engine sorted out.GSLV Mark III is undergoing suborbital testing in the next 30-45 days. We are in the process of setting up the IRNSS system. These are laudable achievements. I think we should focus our discussions on those now.

bharats · Post by **bharats** » 17 Oct 2014 21:18

narendranaik wrote: 1.Tehelka is not a reliable news paper
2. I believe G Madhavan saar didn't work at ISRO for 42 years for free, he didn't do any favor to anyone, just his job. It's a different thing that the people of this country thank him for his leadership and taking ISRO in the right direction, but when he starts spouting bs, he needs to be put in his place.
3. Who are you to assume that ISRO is muddled by bureaucratic hurdles? Go and look at the successful missions completed by ISRO in the recent past.
4. Anyone who criticizes ISRO out of spite, is not worth listening to. Constructive criticisms are welcome, what he did was just bashing ISRO. Basically he's trying to say that ISRO was achieving real success when he was the boss.
5. Not every argument has two sides especially when the country is infested with spiteful idiots who can only cry about what's wrong instead of providing a constructive advise.

My two cents on your comments…

1. I would say no newspapers are reliable. And considering the timeline, year 2012, Tehelka was rated as among the finest news media service in INDIA.

2. Working an organization for 42 years makes a lot of difference. Retrospectively ask ourselves, how many years we all work for same organization. He did it with great valor and essence and should be respected. Please note that we treated contagiously Nambi Narayanan and D Sasikumaran, who were accused of selling ISRO secrets for millions. We might be doing similar lines Dr Gopalan Madhavan Nair now. So time has to prove Dr Gopalan Madhavan Nair was right or wrong.

3. I must say, how you would prove ISRO never has bureaucratic hurdles. Successful mission alone won’t prove anything. If all about creating coherence and thereby effectiveness and efficiency in organization. If I argue that ISRO could have done better by core technology buildup before attempting interplanetary travels, would you agree? So this is all about perspective!

4. I completely disagree this. We should hear from everyone who criticizes, and seek opportunities for improvement. And he is not any 'Tom, Dick and Harry', he spent considerable moments there at ISRO, and he knows more; better than you and me. And we cannot ignore the great deal of activities when he was at helm. Nevertheless the impression is not to belittle the activities under current leadership. The statement is, we cannot ignore apparent advancement all through Dr Gopalan Madhavan realm.

5. Don’t understand who spiteful idiots are, definitely Dr Gopalan Madhavan Nair is not among them. Read and understand his bio before trivial arguments.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 17 Oct 2014 21:26

Can we stop this discussion.It is not contributing anything useful.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 17 Oct 2014 21:31

narendranaik wrote:
4. Anyone who criticizes ISRO out of spite, is not worth listening to. Constructive criticisms are welcome, what he did was just bashing ISRO. Basically he's trying to say that ISRO was achieving real success when he was the boss.

Got the same drift when reading that article. Maybe he was wrongly quoted and its all DDM.

But the intent was clear from news article.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 17 Oct 2014 21:49

Going to Mars itself is a science. I think Nair has issues with present leadership. Best not to focus on Nair.

srin · Post by **srin** » 17 Oct 2014 22:21

Dr. Madhavan Nair was the Chairman of ISRO. He didn't get there by accident, nor did he destroy the organization. I honestly don't know the details of Devas affair, but irrespective of his involvement or the criminality of it - it can't take away his accomplishments to science before & during his chairmanship.

That said, he is doing a great disservice to the organization by his frequent criticisms. Media criticism is one thing, but MN was an insider and his words will always be taken differently. As the current chairman of ISRO, Dr. Radhakrishnan made the decisions that he did and it was in complete concurrence with the civilian authority. MN's words undermine the position and authority of the current ISRO chairman. And that is saying without going into the merit of the argument.

Now to look at what he is saying: that MoM is wasteful because it can't produce real scientific data because it is too small. We should have developed GSLV further and then attempted it.
It may be right - but only from a purely tactical scientific point of view. From a commercial point of view, we just show-cased our technology and reliability to the entire world - the best from of advertising. This will translate to huge benefits in terms of commercial launches.
From a strategic point of view, any international treaty/agreement on Mars and Moon will necessarily need to have India as a party - because we have just established our physical presence there. In a sense, the NYtimes cartoon was correct - but we didn't knock on the door, we knocked the door down.
Even from scientific point of view, there will be more collaboration and less sanctions (formal or otherwise). And hence more science and technology to ISRO scientists.

I, therefore, can't agree with Dr. MN's criticisms. They are not thought out and they are very damaging.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 18 Oct 2014 01:38

merlin wrote: Is that what admins on this forum have degenerated to? Asking members to keep quiet if they don't agree with what Madhavan Nair is saying?

If you have a problem report it on the feedback thread instead of shooting your mouth off here. And if I see you make any personal attacks against an admin or continue stalking them across threads, I will ban you outright without warning. Being an oldie doesn't get you special privileges so make sure you are aware of that. And that applies to any other poster who is getting ideas along the same lines.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Oct 2014 10:14

This is being posted here in the context of the PM's speech to service chiefs yesterday and his emphasis on "space" vital for India's defence and security.We cannot be left behind in the space race for military purposes even as we advance in civil space missions.An Indian manned/unmanned orbiter/shuttle is vitally required which will be possible once the GSLV launchers become regular launch vehicles just like our PSLVs.Hopefully the next GSLV launch will be a success and help us to accelerate our mil/civil space programmes.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 03212.html

Rob Williams
Friday 17 October 2014

A top secret unmanned space plane, that has spent nearly two years circling the Earth on a classified mission, has landed at a US Air Force base on the Southern California coast.

The aircraft, which resembles a miniature version of the space shuttle, safely touched down at 9.24am on Friday at Vandenberg Air Force Base.

Theories have abounded as to the highly classified mission undertaken by the Orbital Test Vehicle or X-37B during its 674 days in orbit.

Among them is the suggestion that the aircraft was used to spy on China's new space laboratory.

Several experts have theorized it carried a payload of spy gear in its cargo bay.

Other theories sound straight out of a James Bond film, including that the spacecraft would be able to capture the satellites of other nations.

The X-37B, the Air Force's first unmanned re-entry spacecraft, after landing on December 3, 2010 The X-37B, the Air Force's first unmanned re-entry spacecraft, after landing on December 3, 2010

The US Air Force has remained tight-lipped on what the plane was doing in space, saying only that it had been conducting "on-orbit experiments."

The X-37B program has been an orphan of sorts, bouncing since its inception in 1999 between several federal agencies, NASA among them. It now resides under the Air Force's Rapid Capabilities Office.

The plane that landed Friday is one of two built by Boeing. This is the program's third mission, and began in December 2012.

Technicians examining the X-37B unmanned spaceplane shortly after landing at Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif Technicians examining the X-37B unmanned spaceplane shortly after landing at Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif

The plane stands 9. 1/2 feet (2.9 meters) tall and is just over 29 feet (almost 9 meters) long, with a wingspan under 15 feet (4.5 meters). It weighs 11,000 pounds (4,989 kilograms) and has solar panels that unfurl to charge its batteries once in orbit.

The Air Force said it plans to launch the fourth X-37B mission from Cape Canaveral, Florida, next year.

Additional reporting by Reuters

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 18 Oct 2014 17:30

Like it or not the next issues and battles will be in space despite all those agreements which prevent this.This will be extended to other parts of the solar system as our capabilities extend and just like we see differences in Antarctic /Arctic exploration and rights the same will happen in space when access becomes easier and then he who holds the land is the ruler will be more and more "attractive" to countries.So indeed if India is to project its place in the "World" over the next century we do need to make a mark in both planetary and interplanetary exploration or we will be left behind with an empty bowl.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 18 Oct 2014 21:16

For a return mission, the X-37's payload must be small and only carried recon gear. The laws of physics are still in play here. What can a X-37 do better than a super secret spy satellite cannot do? I suspect they are just trying out some secret uber spy technology, but nothing on the scale or scope that some people's imaginations suggest.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 18 Oct 2014 21:42

Navigation Satellite IRNSS 1C Update:

The second orbit raising operation of IRNSS-1C is successfully completed by firing the Apogee Motor for 1,563 seconds.
The current orbital parameters are:

Perigee Altitude: 7187 km
Apogee Altitude: 35634 km

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 18 Oct 2014 23:00

Raja Bose wrote:
merlin wrote: Is that what admins on this forum have degenerated to? Asking members to keep quiet if they don't agree with what Madhavan Nair is saying?
If you have a problem report it on the feedback thread instead of shooting your mouth off here. And if I see you make any personal attacks against an admin or continue stalking them across threads, I will ban you outright without warning. Being an oldie doesn't get you special privileges so make sure you are aware of that. And that applies to any other poster who is getting ideas along the same lines.

Please point out

1. Personal attacks on admins
2. Stalking them (who?) across threads

I'm well aware of my privileges or lack thereof. There is no need to remind me.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 18 Oct 2014 23:08

Not on this thread. Please continue on the BR forum feedback thread.

SSSalvi · Post by **SSSalvi** » 19 Oct 2014 07:00

Final constellation when all IRNSS satellites are launched :

The 3 GSOs at 32.5º E, 83º E and 131.5º E and
4 IGSOs with longitude crossings 55º E and 111.75º E (two in each plane). Note: IGSO = Inclined Geo-synchronous Orbit

View of Current configuration (1A, 1B in final slot of 55º E IGSO. Latest spacecraft 1C is still not in final place of 83º E GSO )

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 19 Oct 2014 07:21

merlin wrote:
Please point out

1. Personal attacks on admins
2. Stalking them (who?) across threads

I'm well aware of my privileges or lack thereof. There is no need to remind me.

I will not point out anything to you. Next infraction and you are banned - keeping reminding yourself that. End of discussion.

bharats · Post by **bharats** » 19 Oct 2014 10:10

Hype over India's Mars mission
By Praful Bidwai, Indian columnist.
Link:http://www.thedailystar.net/hype-over-i ... sion-46273

The contrast between India's two recent science and technology (S&T) projects couldn't have been starker. One, by delivering accurate early warnings about Cyclone Hudhud, saved thousands of lives. The other put the Indian Space Research Organisation's (ISRO) Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) Mangalyaan into orbit -- a technological achievement, without much scientific or social consequence.

The media exulted over MOM, and ultra-nationalisti-cally declared India a great global science power. But it ignored the first project -- based on low-key, unglamorous, painstaking cooperation between the India Metereological Department, National Institute of Ocean Technology, National Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasting, two Indian Institutes of Technology, and the Orissa and Andhra governments. The effort involved creation of more cyclone shelters, coastal roads, weather stations, advanced computers, faster communication-lines, and rescue-and-relief preparations.This hugely improved cyclone warning-time -- to five days from 24 hours in 1999, when the Orissa “super-cyclone” caused 3,958 deaths (unofficial estimate, 10,000). This improvement enabled the evacuation last fortnight of 2 lakh-plus people, stockpiling of essentials, and better-coordinated relief.This is a case of greater social relevance, and more innovative technology, than MOM, which lacks civilian spin-offs.

True, ISRO has developed many technologies, including rocketry, engine design, electronic fabrication, remote tracking/control, and data processing. ISRO's first-attempt success in putting MOM in a Martian orbit must not be underrated. But MOM's scientific agenda was modest: observing Mars from the closest-ever distance of about 400 km. This cannot deliver even a fraction of the information generated by the recent US-European “Mars Express” mission. The 1,350-kg Mangalyaan carries a tiny 13-kg scientific payload, compared to the “Express's” 116 kg. This cannot add significantly to what's known about Martian topography or atmosphere. According to former ISRO chairman G. Madhavan Nair, MOM was to carry 12 instruments. But only five were tested in time. Leaving the rest behind made MOM a “useless showpiece event.” MOM's limitations arise from ISRO's failure to develop even after 15 years a Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle, which can place heavy (2,000 kg-plus) satellites into high orbits. Instead, it hurriedly used the much-less-powerful Polar SLV, greatly limiting MOM's abilities.

MOM may have given ISRO a steroid shot. But it will do nothing to advance S&T. For decades, India was the Third World's unquestioned “science superpower.” In 1980, it globally held the 8th position in the number of peer-reviewed papers, while China was a distant No 15. By 2010, China had moved to No 2, and India to No 9. Other emerging economies are also catching up with India in R&D (research and development) personnel, scientific output and impact (measured by citations of papers). China, and even Russia and South Korea, have more people engaged in R&D than India. Brazil isn't far behind. Although India accounts for 3.5% of scientific papers worldwide, its share in the top one-percent impact-making journals is only 0.54%. Forty five percent of its publications are uncited.

India's S&T is in crisis. Its priorities are warped: two-thirds of its R&D expenditure goes to three “security”-related organisations: Department of Atomic Energy, Defence R&D Organisation and Department of Space. The first two perform appallingly. The rest of the establishment including the big laboratory-chains under the Councils of Agricultural Research, Scientific and Industrial Research, and Medical Research, and the Department of Biotechnology, make do with the remaining one-third. Their budgets were recently cut by 25-30%. Worse, the allotted funds aren't disbursed on time. The Department of Science and Technology and Council of Scientific and Industrial Research remain headless.

India, in the 1950s, committed a great blunder in severing research from teaching, which are best linked in the university system. India set up specialised laboratories with no infusion of student talent. Most laboratories are extremely bureaucratised, with no peer review or public accountability. Promotions are decided on the length of service or nepotism, not performance. I interviewed researchers from biology, theoretical physics, chemistry and astronomy, who corroborate this. They complain that bureaucratisation has created a “pervasive culture of mediocrity,” in which people with outstanding talent cannot function optimally. There's very little collaborative research across institutions, and a proliferation of me-too projects, many sub-critically funded and unproductive. The result is growing lack of enterprise, and loss of the experience of scientific adventure.

Independent India's S&T enterprise has proved flawed in other ways too. It was to promote the “scientific temper” (a Constitutional mandate) and spirit of critical enquiry. It has failed to do that -- witness the growth of blind faith, politicised religion and superstition. India has more temples than schools! ISRO Chairman K. Radhakrishnan worshipped a metal replica of MOM at Tirupati temple before the launch.India's youth is no longer attracted to science, as distinct from professions which don't remotely inculcate rational values. India's science education is in a mess. India's S&T has betrayed its promise of delivering useful inventions, with a few partial exceptions like agricultural research (which plateaued and wasn't extended to dry land farming) and information technology. It has failed to provide reliable power and clean drinking water. Unless Indian S&T redeems its promise, it will go further downhill, MOM notwithstanding.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 19 Oct 2014 10:19

Bidwai has lost his marbles. Someone find them quick.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 19 Oct 2014 10:22

Anything to detract an achievement isn't it ? So how many countries has the wherewithal or the capability do this ? Hasn't our ranging and tracking capability improved. Hasn't our ability to use satellite autonomy functions improved . So we sent 5 payloads whereas zero is somehow magically supposed to be better.

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 19 Oct 2014 10:27

The BR policy for deaf and dumb fora should also be extended to likes of praful bidwai and rajat pandit.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 19 Oct 2014 10:33

So entire China,Pakistan,East Asia and immediate neighbourhood is covered

juvva · Post by **juvva** » 19 Oct 2014 10:47

IRNSS uses Geostationary orbit , where as other systems like GPS, Galileo etc use lower orbits. Is this the reason for lower positional accuracy on IRNSS ?

Or is the quoted accuracy, a deliberately degraded accuracy for civilian use, against an ( undisclosed ) greater accuracy for defense use?

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 19 Oct 2014 13:24

juvva wrote:IRNSS uses Geostationary orbit , where as other systems like GPS, Galileo etc use lower orbits. Is this the reason for lower positional accuracy on IRNSS ?

Or is the quoted accuracy, a deliberately degraded accuracy for civilian use, against an ( undisclosed ) greater accuracy for defense use?

We are using a peculiar combination as we have less satellites in orbit and only a geostationary one will hover at a particular site/area.Problem is acquisition times may be slightly late .
With this system we will not be able to get accurate positioning as we move towards the Arctic which is an area we are not particularly concerned with that.
We are degrading the civilian signal. (There is a precision signal and a general signal.)

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 19 Oct 2014 13:24

deleted - seems to double posting on hitting submit button !

Ranjani Brow · Post by **Ranjani Brow** » 19 Oct 2014 16:47

(Deleted)

akashganga · Post by **akashganga** » 19 Oct 2014 17:41

Bheeshma wrote:Bidwai has lost his marbles. Someone find them quick.

Bidwai is full of contradiction. One the one hand he criticizes indians for having temples and on the other hand he credits management of the hurricane. The same temple going Indians managed the effects of hurricane. Interestingly he does not include ISRO in the list of institutions he praises for hurricane work even though Isro built and launched satellite were the most important tools used. These ultra left wingers have developed extreme egos and consider themselves morally superior. Contrast Bidwai article with that of pakistani scientist parvez hoodboy. He praises indian mars achievement. http://india.shafaqna.com/video-photo/p ... -mars.html

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 19 Oct 2014 18:08

You guys still discussing Bidwai. We oldies stopped in the 90s. We used to call him "Purefool Butwhy".

venkat_r · Post by **venkat_r** » 19 Oct 2014 18:50

Valid criticism from Mr.Madhavan Nair. Indian space program seems to be aimless at present and lacks any set direction or consistency.

First Moon mission happened in 2008 and nothing more to show as a follow up for the next 9 - 10 years. There is no clear identified plan that is drawn out (published) for the exploration of the moon. Now the Mars Mission happened, but what next? no clear plan on how how India sees the future of humans as two planet habitation. Some of these are growing pains for ISRO whose role seems to be bursting at seams with lack of clarity on its focus.

It is understood that India with its limited budget, should focus more on the programs that help Indians well - Many programs were talked about and few are being pursued - Atleast i thought there were decided after a lot of debate in ISRO. They possibly were decided that way and Nair might have a different opinion. There seem to be not a lot of conversation in the open on the future of ISRO and seems like even the political leadership is treading carefully as lot of these one off programs are good for show and tell.

Indian space program has been a one trick pony with PSLV for some time and GSLV's success is necessary to take that to the next level. If we can get reusable launcher, better. Seems like Nair wants ISRO to choose a category and work to lead the pack in that category - not a bad idea and also possible for ISRO. All his criticism is tactical on where ISRO needs to focus on rather than any criticism of ISRO.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 19 Oct 2014 19:03

So breaking the cryogenic barrier is not an achievement. Getting the GSLV Mark III for suborbital testing is not a "direction". Planning Chandrayaan 2 is not working in a direction ? AURA is undergoing testing. The problem was that Cryogenics was Indias' stumbling block which had to be overcome and till that happened natural progression was not possible. IRNSS is being launched to get a regional GPS (with and we are saying ISRO is doing nothing (with 4 launches planned over the year) ? Maybe there is no loud conversations in public but do you think people in ISRO are keeping silent and resting on "Old laurels" as some are putting it as ? Interplanetary Launch windows are unfortunately not there at our beck and call so we had to choose this launch window with what we had and to say that MOM is useless is very very myopic. If we do not have such programs do you think ISRO can attract talent ? Do you know that many students took IIST over IIT (having got seats in IIT'sin subjects of their choice) this year spurred on by these recent developments ? Look at the long term perspective and they have got timelines and path has been chalked out and indeed it is in public domain - the main problem was passing the the cryogenic barrier. Let us not belittle the people who are working against odds and let us not forget that there are only few countries who have succeeded to acquire this technology. What was needed was validation of critical technologies and once these are done progress can be faster.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 19 Oct 2014 19:12

PSLV being described as a one trick pony is amusing. It has currently 3 variants. So you are assuming that strap on booster separation is the same whatever may be the core configuration and we can attach whatever and assume it will work ? Work is going on the PSLV HP version too.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 19 Oct 2014 19:12

deleted

bharats · Post by **bharats** » 19 Oct 2014 20:01

Breaking the cryogenics barrier itself is not enough. ISRO need to get the GSLV Mk3 and possibly Mk4 program rolling, with priority. In past we have witnessed, GSLV programs getting side-lined including the launch window affected by MOM, & not sure if we could still meet the November 2014 deadline. Also not much heard of ULVs and scramjet propulsion etc. And totally no discussion on how ISRO is planning to meet the deficiency in transponders in communication satellites. Are we launching a new series of satellites bigger than INSAT with better power management capabilities as the world moves to?

What you see, is reaping the benefit of legacy ISRO had in the past. If ISRO need to sustain, they cannot ignore bottom line and core capabilities build-up. And ISRO does not need to prove anything to the world, when ISRO is ready, world will come to it. Interesting fact, ISRO got commercial launches for PSLV long before any interplanetary deeds. And we will get for GSLV too, but question is when would that happen?

I have reminded, ISRO is required to re-prioritize, channelize resource to build core capabilities rather interplanetary stunts. I do agree, IRNSS is a good move. Except this and few others, ISRO is deviating from the original vision of larger ‘Return of Investment’ to community and also its current priorities are not giving justice to even scientific community by half-baked mission objectives (scientific per see). ISRO could have done a better MOM mission, if they had Atlas V class rocket. ISRO is not the same, it used to be and Dr Gopalan Madhavan Nair is cautioning the fellow Indians, and he is doing right.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 19 Oct 2014 20:04

So are you saying that GSLV Mark III is not going to be launched ? If you did not break the cryogenic barrier could we think Mark 2 let alone Mark 3 ?

Prasanna

bharats · Post by **bharats** » 19 Oct 2014 20:21

prasannasimha wrote:So are you saying that GSLV Mark III is not going to be launched ? If you did not break the cryogenic barrier could we think Mark 2 let alone Mark 3 ?

Prasanna

All I am saying one off like GSLV Mk3 this is not sufficient. We need a lot, and I still won’t count MOM one of them. The rationale is ISRO has a lot to catch-up for core system building; And programs akin to MOM brings interruptions and postponements. I am afraid of a MOM#2, as this would keep our research divisions bolted to newer priorities and would cause further deferments. This is important as I pointed out earlier; ISRO has limited resources in terms of manpower and capitals and shall not be blogged by priorities which does not add much to bottom-line. And not infer me, as antagonistic to interplanetary travels. I am saying ISRO is not ready, and we can have these dreams once we have built enough core capabilities in house.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 19 Oct 2014 20:22

When do you think they will ever be ready ?

csaurabh · Post by **csaurabh** » 19 Oct 2014 20:46

Apart from the 'secular' nonsense at the end ( temples etc. ) Bidwai is fairly correct for the most part. Bureaucracy and red tape is a serious problem ( like it is in most govt. departments ), and there is a real disconnect between academia and industry esp. where Isro is concerned. They publish little, don't go to conferences much and are generally bad at PR.

The idea that Isro fails to attract talent is largely a myth. IITians don't join Isro because Isro doesn't recruit from IITs, that's pretty much it. Mangalyaan has nothing to do with it. And relations are bad now because of bureaucratic reasons. For example IITK built the rover for Chandrayaan mission three years ago, but then Isro refused to pay for it. It is still collecting dust in some lab now.

On the other hand Mahadevan Nair is full of sh!t as well. Some of his points are valid, but his whining just comes off as sour grapes. Many of Isro's problems today are due to the policies during his tenure.

If Bidwai wasn't a commie he would realize that it isn't a matter of choice between Mangalyaan and weather forecasting. India needs both.

P.S. I am currently pursuing Phd in IIST, and have studied in two IITs before ( IITK and IITB for bachelors and masters ).