Transport Aircraft for IAF

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 29 Oct 2014 05:07

JTull wrote:http://flaps-aviacion-aviation-luftfahr ... c-27j.html

Comparing c295 to c27j

I found a document from Austalian strategic policy institute that compares C-295 & C-27J. They seem to be evenly matched in many areas and will depend on air force's requirement. Read the entire document here.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 29 Oct 2014 05:22

Hitesh wrote:I hope that MoD goes for TATA offer and prevent HAL from railroading the process.

GoI has already decided on a private company for this contract so HAL doesn't enter the picture even sideways. I do think that they (HAL) realize that the so-called "Avro replacement" has a better than even chance of replacing the An-32 as well which would effectively ausfahrt them out of the military transport business and hand it over to the private sector.

If the deadline is the end of the month, let's hope that GoI receives more bids. I too would prefer the Spartan for the IAF but the C295 is adaptable to many more roles than the C-27 is, even civil transport. One of the press reports actually said that Tata-Airbus had considered the civil prospects before it decided to bid. I read somewhere that the civil market in India will need over 1,000 aircraft in the next 20-25 years so Airbus is well positioned. Kudos to them for looking ahead. I'd like to see BAe, LM and Boeing also enter the fray.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 29 Oct 2014 06:20

If TATA are the only respondents, does the tender get scrapped for being a single vendor situation.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 29 Oct 2014 09:09

Victor wrote:
Hitesh wrote: Kudos to them for looking ahead. I'd like to see BAe, LM and Boeing also enter the fray.

What would BAe, LM and Boeing be able to offer in this category? the C-130J is a step up over the C-27J and C-295 in both payload and cost and Boeing has no offering at all..nor does BAe. These are the only 2 real contenders, even considering Ukranian and Russian options.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 29 Oct 2014 09:15

Victor sahab,

I apologize on replying way too quickly. You are right about your concerns with C-295W's performance at hot and high conditions. I am worried that its TWR may not provide enough margin for safety in the hot and high conditions (though Airbus does claim having fixed exactly that with the 295W). However 295s will be much more flexible and cheaper to procure and operate the Spartans. Plus there is that civilian part of the deal. It is actually going to be very interesting. Other than TASL, Taneja has experience, but I don't think they have deep enough pockets for a project of this scale. Mahindra could throw their hat in the ring. They have a little experience with aerostructures. I don't believe Reliance will come in when there is risk involved (Rafale was a poora paisa wasool deal for them).

Agupta sahab,

The first point is: What are the characteristics of the first civilian plane India should make?
1. USA, China, Russia, Brazil and Canada won't buy these planes (they have their own). So we will be selling this plane to developing or developed countries which are not geographically bigger than India, i.e. a plane for feeder lines (flights with a duration of about an hour and a distance of less than 1000 kms.
2. For such flights, turboprops will give better fuel efficiency and the time difference will be negligible.
3. The support present at the airport will be low: no air bridges, no ramps to load and unload luggage.
4. This is incidentally what our original plan was, and then we lost focus (IMHO).

The second point is why a C-295W-based version rather than a C-27J based version?
1. The C-27J is a powerful plane with a wide, high and short cabin. This is detrimental in 3 ways. a. It is not the most aerodynamically sleek design, b. the engines are way too powerful and c. does not have enough floor space for enough seats. Therefore, if the C-27J has to be converted into a civilian plane it's fuselage has to be lengthened, the ramp has to go, and the empennage has to be smoothened to reduce drag.
2. The C-295W on the other hand has the engine and the fuselage almost right. They already have a fuselage with windows et.al and certified for civilian use. All that would be required to make an efficient civilian version is to work on the MLG (no need for the tandem wheels with kneeling capability which are also CR-2 capbable), therfeby making a smaller MLG fairing, removal of the ramp and smoothening of the empennage. This work is already done on the N-250-100 or even the latest R-80. But the question is whether the Indonesians will agree to create a competitor.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 29 Oct 2014 12:32

indranilroy wrote:The first point is: What are the characteristics of the first civilian plane India should make?
1. USA, China, Russia, Brazil and Canada won't buy these planes (they have their own). So we will be selling this plane to developing or developed countries which are not geographically bigger than India, i.e. a plane for feeder lines (flights with a duration of about an hour and a distance of less than 1000 kms.
2. For such flights, turboprops will give better fuel efficiency and the time difference will be negligible.
3. The support present at the airport will be low: no air bridges, no ramps to load and unload luggage.
4. This is incidentally what our original plan was, and then we lost focus (IMHO).

Turboprops are certainly more fuel efficient for short hauls and the C-295 is a more economical solution than the C-27J, but it is still limited by design and will never be competitive with a purpose built RTA. The CN-235 for example was also available on the civilian market but mostly fizzled.

You'll find the RTA segment will continue to be dominated by ATR, Bombardier and Embraer. More widely used, more reliable service records, and more economical to boot. Our best shot of breaking into that market is still NAL's RTA, but with the Russians and Chinese also trying to get a foothold in, I'm skeptical about its prospects as well.

The TASL-Airbus tie-up too isn't unprecedented; Indonesian Aerospace is also assembling the C-295 under license and actively marketing it in the Asia-Pacific region (it earlier built the CN-235 as well).

The C-27J is more survivable, has a wider fuselage, features more power (for those high altitude airfields), maintains commonality with the C-130J, and just as importantly has a dozen or so nearly-new mothballed C-27Js available for a steal.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 29 Oct 2014 13:19

agupta wrote:If there was room for creative international deal-making (and the C27 met IAF requirements) with US and Alenia, we could take the hot-ticket "extra" C27s being bounced around the US defence establishment as a quick immediate delivery, and buy more time for establishing.

That said, it seems like a unicorn... if TASL and Airbus have locked in, there really aren't too many other private players who are capable enough to pull this of - unless someone like Reliance makes a big play; can they/will they - given their Dassault connections ?? Anyone believe Taneja has the where-withal ?

Alenia is on record that they'll not provide OEM support to these surplus US aircraft as they want fresh sales.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 29 Oct 2014 13:54

JTull wrote:Alenia is on record that they'll not provide OEM support to these surplus US aircraft as they want fresh sales.

They don't want to be cut out of the deal but if the sale could potentially lead to large follow on orders for new-built C-27J in the form of a An-32 replacement contract, as it would in India, they'd change their tune pretty fast.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 29 Oct 2014 14:58

The stored C 27s are not going to be in a flyable condition if they are stored for much longer. Alenia may agree to have these aircraft's sold to India and provide the OEM support.

But the decision to pick up these aircraft's has to be made by the IAF and the MOD has to agree.

It will also matter as to who the system integrator for the design will be.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 29 Oct 2014 16:13

AFAIK the American attempts to sell those C27s were unsuccessful as Alenia has refuses to support the aircraft if they are sold(they are trying to protect their market).

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 29 Oct 2014 16:14

Viv S,

Out of 21 USAF C27Js, 14 were being transferred to US Coast Guard.

Moreover, this thread came alive due to potential assembly of C295 in India by Tatas. Buying 21 mothballed aircraft isn't compatible with 'Make in India' and I doubt this govt will want to give the contract to Italians.

Airbus has shown initiative with the 'W' variant as it was widely reported to be designed specifically for India when it came out in 2013.

It is also comparable to current An-32 specs (link) so offers huge advantage of replacing two types with one aircraft, that too with domestic production.

This is a one horse race, single-vendor situation notwithstanding. So far, HAL has been the single domestic vendor for military planes, so shouldn't be a problem.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 29 Oct 2014 17:00

JTull wrote:Viv S,

Out of 21 USAF C27Js, 14 were being transferred to US Coast Guard.

Moreover, this thread came alive due to potential assembly of C295 in India by Tatas. Buying 21 mothballed aircraft isn't compatible with 'Make in India' and I doubt this govt will want to give the contract to Italians.

Airbus has shown initiative with the 'W' variant as it was widely reported to be designed specifically for India when it came out in 2013.

It is also comparable to current An-32 specs (link) so offers huge advantage of replacing two types with one aircraft, that too with domestic production.

This is a one horse race, single-vendor situation notwithstanding. So far, HAL has been the single domestic vendor for military planes, so shouldn't be a problem.

Nitin,

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/c-2 ... rce-05094/

more to it than us designated c27j, some daal is kaali cooked or uncooked.

sattili · Post by **sattili** » 29 Oct 2014 17:28

After reading this thread, I dug out my old Vayu magazine editions as I remember C295 and other similar aircraft were compared few years ago.

In 2011 (III/2011) Vayu ran an article comparing various contenders for Navy's MRMR requirement, it listed following planes:

CN-235 : (max payload upto 6 tons) - (Engines 2X GE CT7-9CE)

C-295 : (max payload upto 9 tons) - (Engines 2X PW127G)

Bombardier Q 300 Dash 8 (max payload 5 tons) - (Engines 2X PW123) - a High Gross Weight variant with PW123B engines has 6 ton max payload)

AT-42MP : (Max payload - 5.5 tons ) -(Engines 2X PW127E)

ATR-72 ASW : (Max payload 7.5 tons) - (Engines 2X PW127M)

Saab2000 MPA : (Max payload - 6 tons) - (Engines 2XAE2100)

Beriev Be-200

It also has an interesting snippet that C212 was considered for MP role in the 80s but was rejected by IN due to various shortcomings.

Which of the above airplanes could fit the "Avro" replacement requirement?

I think few other players apart of TASL-Airbus can also join the fray. If Mahindra wants to compete I think they can tap into Bombardier, they have a existing relationship in terms of offshore design center which they got from Satyam's business. I believe if HAL is allowed to compete then they can tap Dornier (Dornier 328) or SAAB. Which other Indian companies have a shot at this contract?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 29 Oct 2014 18:43

One problem with C-27J is that only a limited number of them were produced and that for USAF which is now junking it. Spares & support might be an issue. C-295 is in use in many countries, so from long term support perspective, that might be better.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Oct 2014 20:00

Not read earlier posts, but ..................

Which of the above airplanes could fit ..............................

As someone else had stated too, looks like the Tata-EADS team has won this deal. So, if at all there are any questions, they should relate to the "W" version that was supposedly designed specifically for India. ??????

sattili · Post by **sattili** » 29 Oct 2014 20:50

NRao wrote:Not read earlier posts, but ..................

Which of the above airplanes could fit ..............................
As someone else had stated too, looks like the Tata-EADS team has won this deal.

Hold your horses hero!...this contract is not yet awarded. All the hoopla in news is that TASL&EADS submitted a bid. There is at least one more day time for others to submit their bids. Even if there are no more bids, no guarantee yet that contract will be awarded for this plane.

So, if at all there are any questions, they should relate to the "W" version that was supposedly designed specifically for India. ??????

C-295 appears to be the best platform that was listed earlier in my post. And coming to the "W" version...it is the standard variant from this quarter (Q4 2014) onwards. EADS is not going to offer any other variants.

Here is a scan of Vayu article from 2013 that provides more details about what this "W" version means

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Oct 2014 22:04

Sorry, not rich enough for horses ................. bullocks only.

And coming to the "W" version...it is the standard variant from this quarter

The story on street was that the "W" was India centric. I assume they have no option but to make it a standard variant now.

Really does not matter.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 29 Oct 2014 23:10

It's ironic that Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim country, designed and made a civilian airliner in 1995 called the Gatotkaca after a character from the Hindu epic Mahabharata. It was a great start and a solid design but the Asian financial turmoil killed it. Something like this would meet all our Avro, An-32 and RTA requirements if done right. Maybe Mahindra should pick up the phone and call the Indonesians?

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 29 Oct 2014 23:44

That is only an avatar of the CN-235. So it is not a competitor really. It will complement the C-295W. The phone call should therefore be from TASL to Indonesian Aerospace, asking if they would like some funds in lieu of production rights of the R-80 (the last iteration of the evolution of the CN-250-100) at Tata's upcoming plant.

The only real competition is the C-27J. But Alenia needs to act really fast now. Airbus has a huge advantage (potentially the winning advantage) by snapping up TASL.

Antonov had already negotiated with the TASL regarding the An-148 production line. However, there were ToT issues with many parts being sourced from Russia. Tata obviously has declined that offer. I don't know if the AN-140 is even in the contention.

I would not touch the IL-112 with an yard stick right now after the MTA experience.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 29 Oct 2014 23:52

Victor wrote:It's ironic that Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim country, designed and made a civilian airliner in 1995 called the Gatotkaca after a character from the Hindu epic Mahabharata. It was a great start and a solid design but the Asian financial turmoil killed it. Something like this would meet all our Avro, An-32 and RTA requirements if done right. Maybe Mahindra should pick up the phone and call the Indonesians?

Is why we need MTA actually. When we start and begin production, at that time we will understand how long it will take for MTA to come into service. It may just take a lot of years, who knows. Better to have a bird in hand rather in cold storage for future use and work out all issues.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Oct 2014 23:58

"Russia" has to mean paying their resources to work in India - that could/should produce results for India.

Having work done in Russia is a rather huge risk venture at this point and going into the next few years. Their economy and politics have to fall out.

srin · Post by **srin** » 30 Oct 2014 00:30

The only reason I look forward to the MTA is not for transport at all. I look at it as a platform that we control. To be used as a bomber (think rotary launcher with a dozen cruise missiles), maritime surveillance (a bigger dornier), a test-bed for aircraft engines and so on.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 30 Oct 2014 02:42

srin wrote:The only reason I look forward to the MTA is not for transport at all. I look at it as a platform that we control.

There is no way we will have control over anything that we have been spoon fed. "Joint development" like MTA will give us knowledge in many areas but it will not make us independent, perish the thought. If we want a true home grown aircraft, it should be developed entirely in India from the ground up. The only thing allowed for import should be engines and certain critical parts until we are self-sufficient in these areas.

This is how a new domestic civil or military aircraft development program should work IMHO:
1) invite proposals from ANY Indian party, public or private, with specs and minimum Indian content on the entire project as well as certain parts (engine, consulting in certain areas etc).
2) choose 2 parties based on a read from defense and civil experts and PAY each of them to construct a prototype of their proposed models. HAL/ADA should be attached as resources on an as-asked basis for free even if they are not one of the chosen parties. They are not competition but rather valuable resources that must be used as required to meet national priorities. They have built up a body of data and knowledge over decades on Indian taxpayer money and this belongs to all Indians, including private entities.
3) give contract to winning bidder with minimum quantity of aircraft guaranteed and also a minimum reasonable profit guaranteed per aircraft. The new company will be blundering through for the first time and it is unfair (and stupid) to ask them to shoulder so much risk.
4) give tax, subsidies and other incentives to any airlines that use the aircraft if it is a civil aircraft.

To be used as a bomber (think rotary launcher with a dozen cruise missiles), maritime surveillance (a bigger dornier), a test-bed for aircraft engines and so on.

Worth a look but why wait for a new aircraft, this can be done today with our Il-76s and Il-38s and Tu-142s. The Chinese are already doing something similar I think.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 30 Oct 2014 04:01

If we want the MTA, then we should do this on our own and get Airbus as Consultants on the project and maybe even have them invest into it and market it to their customer base. The MTA won't compete with the A400M and even if it does, they have a piece of the pie if they are investors / co producers.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Oct 2014 05:37

The promise of MTA was that for the next transport India would go it alone.

srai · Post by **srai** » 30 Oct 2014 06:52

srin wrote:The only reason I look forward to the MTA is not for transport at all. I look at it as a platform that we control. To be used as a bomber (think rotary launcher with a dozen cruise missiles), maritime surveillance (a bigger dornier), a test-bed for aircraft engines and so on.

If we combine all various types required by the Indian Armed Forces and Paramilitaries, the total order would exceed 200 aircrafts. Combo of CN235/C295 fits perfectly into this matrix.

56+ -> Avro replacement (IAF plus other services/paramilitaries for their communications transport role)
100+ -> An-32 replacement (IAF)
12+ -> Medium MPA/ASW/SAR (IN/ICG)
12+ -> Tactical AAR, Gunship, AEW & other special ISR/SIGINT variants - (IAF/IN/IA/BSF/ITBP/RAW)
100+ -> Civilian variant (certified in 2012)

vaibhav.n · Post by **vaibhav.n** » 30 Oct 2014 08:25

How many Avro and An-32 Squadrons/Flights in all do we have?

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 30 Oct 2014 13:20

So the likely list of contenders:

Airbus/TASL C-295
Alenia C-27J
Antonov An-140 (mistakenly mentioned as An-148)
Ilyushin Il-112 (the article gets it wrong)

Of these the Il-112 is the least likely to go any further, being an old design that lacks a good engine. Russia is now looking to replace their An-140, which they had initially planned to use as their light transport, with the Il-112, derived from the Il-114 civil transport.

But as the analysis puts it, lacking a rear ramp, even the An-140 is very unlikely to go any further, supposing Antonov does respond to the RFP.

A two horse race if Alenia finds a local partner. Else, the MoD should make an exception and go with the C-295 to get this project going.

Airbus and Tata team for Indian light transport requirement

..

Performance-wise, the request for proposals (RfP) calls for the winning platform to have a 6 to 8 tonne payload, an operational range of 2,500 to 2,700 km, and a rear ramp to facilitate loading of mission pallets, cargo, and passengers.

As well as Airbus DS, Alenia Aermacchi is known to be competing with its C-27J Spartan, Antonov is offering its An-148, and Ilyushin has reportedly shown interest with its Il-114. The deadline for submissions was recently extended to 28 October by the Indian government to afford Antonov more time to put together its formal offer in the face of continued unrest and instability in Ukraine. None of the potential competitors, except for Airbus DS, had announced their domestic teaming arrangements or responded to an IHS Jane's request for comment at the time of writing.

Besides Airbus DS, Alenia Aermacchi, Antonov, and Ilyushin, the Indian government also invited bids from Boeing, Embraer, Lockheed Martin and Saab, although none of these latter companies are understood to have responded.

The requirement is expected to be worth approximately USD2 billion, and the winning platform is set to enter service in the 2015-17 timeframe.

ANALYSIS
While the twin-turboprop C295 and C-27J both meet all of the requirements of the RfP, neither the twin-jet An-148 nor the twin-turboprop Il-114 are equipped with a rear ramp as stipulated in the RfP. As such, most analysts see the competition as being a two-horse race between Airbus DS and Alenia Aermacchi.

Between them, both companies have pretty much sewn up the tactical transport aircraft market over recent years, with most requirements today going the way of one platform or the other.

In terms of capabilities there is little to differentiate between them, although with a payload of 11.5 tonnes (larger than the 6 to 8 tonnes required for the MTA) the C-27J can carry more than the C295's 7 tonnes.

The C295 has a ferry range of 5,000 km (or 1,555 km with a maximum payload), while the C-27J's range is listed in IHS Jane's All the World's Aircraft as being 5,685 km (or 1,037 km with a maximum payload), so there is really nothing to tell them apart in this respect.

Specialist variants of both platforms are available, with gunship, surveillance, signals intelligence, and other special mission versions either already fielded or in development. While this is not a requirement under the MTA RfP, it may well be a consideration for the IAF as it looks to get the most out of its future medium transport platform.

With both platforms meeting or exceeding the RfP the competition is on a knife-edge. That said, one area that may well work in favour of the C-27J is the Italian aircraft's compatibility with the Lockheed Martin C-130J Hercules, which the IAF already fields. Both types use the same engine and loading system, and share many of their avionics, meaning smaller spares and logistics requirements, which translates into lower support and operating costs. This commonality can also be seen in the cross-sections of the main cargo bays - although narrower than the C-130J, the C-27J can fit the same sized pallets into its hold by loading them lengthwise instead of widthwise. This saves time and effort in reconfiguring pallets when transferring loads from one aircraft to the other.

That said, the C295 is cheaper to procure and operate than the C-27J, and has been sold in greater numbers, so it is largely a trade-off between performance and costs as to which aircraft a customer decides to go with.

Whichever platform the IAF decides to adopt, the history of Indian procurement programmes suggests that any final contract signature might not be as straightforward as anticipated, and that programme and in-service timelines may well slip before the winning aircraft is finally fielded.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 30 Oct 2014 13:27

The only hope for Antonov may be the An-140T, which was being developed for Russian military use, with a rear ramp..was supposed to have been ready by 2015, but looking at the current situation in Ukraine, it's anybody's guess whether development has progressed at all or stalled.

link

...

Last year, defense ministry sources indicated their intent to take 62 An-140s provided that Antonov and Aviacor come up with a “price competitive” offer on the An-140T version. Antonov has promised to complete development of this version, which has a rear loading ramp, in 2015.

..

The An-140 is replacing aging An-24s and An-26s in the Russian air force. The service decided to use this type after development of the Il-112 project stalled. Ilyushin began design of the six-tonne-payload LVTS, the Russian acronym for the Light Military Transport Airplane, in 1999. Under a series of small contracts from the defense ministry in 2003-08, Ilyushin produced some 90 percent of the required technical documentation for the Il-112. It also completed wind-tunnel tests and began transferring manufacturing documentation to the Vaso plant in Voronezh, where the new tactical airlifter would be produced.

However, cost overruns and technical issues prompted the defense ministry to discontinue funding this project in 2009. The biggest obstacle is non-availability of a suitable indigenous engine in the 4,000-shp class, after Klimov failed to produce the Bogatyr, a more powerful derivative of the TV7-117 developed earlier for the Il-114 and more recently adapted to the Mil-38-2 helicopter. Reportedly, experimental engines were able to deliver only 2,800 shp instead of the expected 3,500 shp.

Most recently, Ilyushin has lobbied the Russian government to resume the Il-112 project. Russia has now offered the aircraft to India as a 50-50 joint development, in similar fashion to the BrahMos missile and the medium tactical airlifter projects that are already under way. While awaiting a final decision from the government level, the Russian defense ministry has indicated an intention to continue buying the An-140 to meet the pressing need for lightweight tactical airlifters.

they're quoting the MTA as an example of a JV project..a project that's perenially stalled, and is going nowhere beyond having scale models shown at air shows.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 30 Oct 2014 13:33

More on the Il-112 version supposedly being developed for the Russian military. A total non-starter as far as our requirements go. The riskiest of the lot and I have my doubts if any private player would even have been found for this JV. Without a re-engining, the current airplane is simply not good enough and a re-engining with a Canadian engine would push in-service dates by another 3-4 years at the very least.

September 16, 2014,

Worsening relations between Moscow, the new regime in Kiev and the latter’s supporters in the West have prompted the Russian government to “dust off” the Ilyushin-114 turboprop. The Kremlin favors the outdated, but home-grown, design to Ukraine’s Antonov An-140, now in low-rate production at the Aviacor plant in Samara, and the Bombardier Q400, local production of which by Russian aerospace conglomerate Rostec remains under negotiation. Russian deputy prime minister Dmitry Rogozin, who appears on the EU’s sanctions list, acts as the driving force behind the Il-114, often suggesting it as a direct alternative to the Rostec Q400 plan. A development in favor of the Il-114 ocurred on September 9, when Rogozin chaired a meeting of government officials with various ministries and industry heads. “The meeting […] approved of Il-114 production restart,” said Rogozin. “The Ilyushin design house is ready to accept the work.” He stressed that the effort requires “a complete digitizing” of the original drawings after “a deep modernization”.

President Vladimir Putin gave his personal approval for Rogozin’s initiative in August, with a rider that the government should evaluate “commercial worthiness” of such a project. Shortly thereafter, general manager Aleksei Gusev declared Aviacor’s intent to accept the work. The plant makes the An-140 under license from Antonov. A Ukrainian design, however, that 52-seat turboprop has fallen into disfavor due to deteriorating relations with the new regime in Kiev.

Russia’s ministry for industry and trade initially expressed concern about the age of the Il-114s design and a lack of commercial viability. On September 9 the Kremlin gave the ministry two weeks to reconsider its earlier evaluation of the home-grown airplane and prepare a plan in support of it.

Run by the Russian Machines privately held corporation, the Aviacor plant in Samara is not a member in Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC). Nevertheless, its owners and the Samara regional administration have expressed readiness to invest into the Il-114 project. The local authorities have promised to invest between 1 billion roubles ($27 million) and 1.5 billion roubles ($40 million) into Aviacor’s modernization, according to Samara governor Nikolai Merkushkin. Estimates place total investment needed for the project at 8 billion to 12 billion roubles. Rework of the original drawings and their digitizing would take another 3 billion roubles to 4 billion roubles.

After some hesitation, Ilyushin agreed “refresh” the Il-114, originally designed to a 1987 specification. First flown in 1990 and certified in 1997, the airplane could transport 64 passengers 900 km. Its superb loitering capability makes it attractive to the Russian defense ministry, making it a more likely candidate for a larger production run.

The biggest issue now lay with the airplane’s Klimov TV7-117S/SM turboprops. Even though the Russian engine has demonstrated lower fuel burn than Pratt & Whitney Canada’s PW127H on the Westernized Il-114-100 certified in 1999, it also showed lower reliability and on-wing lifetime in Il-114 revenue service. The engine maker has many times reported developments of newer, more powerful and more mature versions, including the TV7-117SM and Bogatyr for the Il-112 tactical airlifter now in development. None, however, have entered serial production. If not for political considerations, the PW127H (Il-114-100) or the TV3-117VMA-SBM1 (developed for the An-140) might rank as candidates for the powerplant requirement.

Ilyushin developed the Il-114 in the late 1980s as an alternative to the British Aerospace Advanced Turboprop (ATP), which BAe offered to the Soviet Union for local production in 1985. In the early 1990s the airplane entered low-rate production at the TAPO plant in Tashkent, the capital of Uzbekistan. TAPO built about 20 airframes. Seven Il-114-100s with Canadian engines and U.S.-made propellers, APUs, avionics and interiors remain in revenue service with Uzbekistan Airways. They have reportedly yielded an annual utilization rate of 1,800 flight hours, barely sufficient to generate a profit.

The Ilyushin’s empty equipped weight, at 16 tons, totals 3 tons more than that of the ATR 72-600; the Franco-Italian aircraft can seat up to 74 passengers in high-density layout, while the Ilyushin can take only 64 (in a cabin with similar dimensions) due to current certification restrictions. The big wing (880 sq ft compared with the ATR 72-600’s 690 sq ft) retards the airplane in cruise flight but gives it superb loitering capability at slow speeds.

Only one Russian airline—Vyborg—operated the Il-114 commercially, taking a pair of reworked aircraft previously operated by Uzbekistan Airways. Revenue flights lasted from 1999 until 2010, when the company disbanded, leaving both aircraft parked at Pskov airport after the service lives of its TV7-117S expired. The only TV7-117SM-powered airplane still operating belongs to Russia’s Radar-MMS radar company, serving as a testbed for radio-electronics.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 30 Oct 2014 16:09

And news that development of the An-140T version with the ramp has been dumped by Russia thanks to the conflict with Ukraine. Aviacor and Antonov were supposed to have developed the An-140T.

Russia dumps An-140T in favour of home made Ilyushins

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 30 Oct 2014 17:12

The Airbus C-295 is clearly the front runner,very successful STOL aircraft and sold to many nations.There are also variants for MRP/ASW,AEW,ISR,etc. The Indian requirement should be easily eventually around 100,with poss. civilian versions.Its main competitor would be the ATR since the aircraft has been in operation for a long time in Indian skies and used extensively worldwide.

Since we are already collaborating with Russia on the MTA, I doubt that a Russian aircraft would suit us unless it comes at an unbelievably low price,which post USSR is unlikely and unproven internationally.

srin · Post by **srin** » 30 Oct 2014 17:45

Philip wrote: Since we are already collaborating with Russia on the MTA, I doubt that a Russian aircraft would suit us unless it comes at an unbelievably low price,which post USSR is unlikely and unproven internationally.

Is that really you, Phillip ?

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 30 Oct 2014 17:59

^ I thought this day would never come

nikhil_p · Post by **nikhil_p** » 30 Oct 2014 18:18

Note to BRAdmins

Philip's Id has been compromised. Pliss to review security and IP address.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 30 Oct 2014 19:36

hope philip is Ok

Someone rush him a gift package from Fortnum and Mason

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 30 Oct 2014 19:44

Boys leave Philip alone.

His heart is in the right place, always has been.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 30 Oct 2014 19:53

JEM

agree

bharats · Post by **bharats** » 30 Oct 2014 20:04

India’s Light Transport Competition: Follow Avros to Exit

Read complete updates from 'Defense Industry Daily' at http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/ind ... xit-07633/

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 Nov 2014 22:52

Hmmmmmm..................

Oct 21, 2014 :: Mass production of advanced transport aircraft Ermak should be started in 2024

Two news items here:

1) Does this mean that the IL-476 is done for? Looks like it. Looks like Il itself is moving on. And,
2) MTA: Development will start?

Ilyushin Company plans to start the development of next-generation transport aircraft dubbed Ermak in 2016, Interfax-AVN reports.

"In 2016 we are going to start the development of a family of heavy transport aircraft with a payload of 80 tons and more. These are wide-body aircraft. The next-generation transport aircraft was dubbed Ermak. It is planned to start the airliner’s mass production in 2024", - CEO of Ilyushin Company, Sergey Sergeev, said.

He noted that Ilyushin Company is facing a great challenge. The whole transport aircraft fleet must be replaced: light, medium, heavy and long-range heavy aircraft segments. "We hope to start the development of a military-transport aircraft with a payload of under 20 tons as soon as possible (the aircraft will replace An-12 vehicles) in the network of MTA project, which is being implemented by Russia and India", - S.Sergeev added.