Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct 2014

[Arjun]

Pakistan is fast sliding towards 'failed nation' status from an economic standpoint...only cause of optimism in the recent past has been Chinese promise of investing $40 Billion. Looks like only China has a vested interest in keeping the terrorist nation afloat.

[Tuvaluan]

Rohitvats:"Tell me something - what do you do with a USD 1 billion loan to justify 6.5% interest rate? "

Given this is pakistan, the interest rate is not really relevant, since there is no intention of returning the loan to the lenders. Wouldn't make a difference if it was a 9% loan...pakistan is likely to do what it did with the other 10 B$ loan received in the past decade. Flush it down the toilet on arms for Hafiz Saeed and other assorted terrorist groups, buy China's latest piece of cr@p JF-31 thunder or whatever and blow it up on stuff to put on the appearance that there is a government in power that wants to spend 14% or whatever they want on "Pakistani defense", even if it just a whole lot of money to "defend" the latrine of the world's nations.

[Shreeman]

^^^ The main use of money is debt servicing, followed by hard currency defense purchases. In Bakistan, you borrow, so you can keep borrowing. An outright default means no one will lend you more money. In Bakistan's case this is actually advantageous. But conventional wisdom says they must keep some h&d intact.

Given that the reputation is in the toilet, using a sovereign default to clear books is something the next coup leader must consider, in national interest. It could change how the economy functions fundamentally.

Bakistan was weakest since 911 earlier this year, about $3B in the bank. Note that this is less than what they make every year using either FICN or afpak opium. Now its up to about $8B with CSF, sukuk etc probably taking it to $10B.

In the bigger scheme of things, this does not serve any real function. As a country as large as bvakistan, what can you do with $10B?

But the formal economy in bakistan is for show only, just like the demokrazy, the english neuj, and so on. The army doesnt rely on the economy, the people (500k taxpayers onlee, likely all fed+state govt employees) clearly dont.

So what should be poublic ius the scale of the informal economy and its state. If the EU can add prostitution to its budgetary processes, why cant independent auditors add fake currency, drug trade, and informal economy figures to bakistan? That is where the social impact lies.

[arun]

Mohammadden group Jundullah meaning “Soldiers of Allah” claims responsibility for Nov. 26th Quetta killing of fellow Mohammadden Polio vaccinators citing Mohammadden religion motivated hatred for adherents of Judaism and Christism in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. For some reason Hindu’s were not mentioned:

Jundullah claims responsibility for attack on polio workers in Quetta …………….

Commander Ahmed Marwat, who introduced himself as the spokesperson for Jundullah, told a foreign news agency correspondent in Dera Ismail Khan via telephone that the group was responsible for the killings.

“They were Yahood-o-Nasara, western Jews agents, and such attacks will continue on polio workers in the future,” he told the reporter of Mashaal Radio in Dera Ismail Khan.

ET

[Tuvaluan]

Shreeman:"So what should be public is the scale of the informal economy and its state. If the EU can add prostitution to its budgetary processes, why cant independent auditors add fake currency, drug trade, and informal economy figures to bakistan? That is where the social impact lies."

Surely, this is what is being done, so all the Bakistani Think Tanks like Brookings Psych Ward in DC can write papers on how Pakistan is actually not *all that bad* off. It will just take a tweak here and there, and civilian control of the army, to fix things, like the arse Stephen Cohen has been writing for decades now. The colleges and textbooks have been mangled beyond recognition to the point where they have nothing to do with pursuit of knowledge and development -- so it does not matter how many pakis go to school or college, they will end up being clones of Hafiz Saeed or Zaid Hamid. So what exactly is the economic activity that can sustain pakistan in the long run...who will protect the people who generate wealth from the kidnappers and psychos who are functioning with the protection of the Army and the ISI that runs the country. The downward spiral is a certainty - the question is how long it will take for them to visibly seen a broken nation that cannot be held together by US and Chinese Aid. Previous estimates placed it at less than 10 years from now.

[Tuvaluan]

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... ed-to-hate

So Christine Fair comes out defending the turd Robin Raphel who apparently dislikes the Indian bureaucrats, presumably because they called out her pro-pakistani horsesh!t to her face. Christine Fair is still the same tool who went around making accusations of India creating trouble in Balochistan -- do not put too much credence in her latest book calling out pakistan on things that are well known to informed Indians.

"She also had few kind words for the Ministry of External Affairs. “I like Pakistan, I like India, I like South Asia,’ she declared. ‘In India, I like the colour and the texture and the sensuality of the place and the interestingness of the people, except the bureaucrats, who in my experience are not worth the time of day.”

I am sure the feeling was mutual re: "not worth the time of day". And I am glad that the rat b@#$%rd Holbrooke is dead. Ack thoo.

[Shreeman]

^^^
Mullah Tuvullah:

Misphortunately, it is *not all that bad*. And no, what you read in our languages are western economic indices of the formal economy. There is no real public documentation of the scale of the informal income. Only speculation here and there when X tonnes are caught on PIA planes or Y crores in Nepal.

Now this is the TSB thread and we dont want to be diskussing reality here too much. But an odd post might be ok. The media (wherever published) is primarily for domestic consumption, except foreign language media. If you want to laugh at PressTV, or RT then surely the Dawn etc are in the bucket. As are the BBC or VOA.

In general, the partition didnt really create magical khalifate across that border. It is an agrarian economy. People grow the same crops, and use the same methods they have for centuries. If you look at the rural life, they could care less if the slum-was-aabad, or if suddenly it became slum-wasnt-aabad.
This is the wast majority of punjab, sindh, baluchistan. The odd jaljalaa will inconvenience people, and then life will go on just as before. currency has little meaning, let alone the complex economics in this situation. Afterall, Afghanistan hasnt exactly disappeared off the face of the planet, even without the benefit of the "institution".

Now you leave out the pindi, karachi, lahore, hyderabads in this. Most or all of the population here also is outside government control. Except those in the army/police/government. The odd $1B and the motorway, and the bahria towns, are more than enough to keep these few hundred thousands to a million or two sufficiently hopeful and perhaps even thriving.

So the question you are asking is really -- will bakistan change into something fundamentally different in the near future? And the answer is clearly no. It is not possible to do this in a tiny country like georgia or with a rabid population like ukraine, with years of active intervention and $50B pockets. The time to change pakistan was the last decade, not the coming one.

And of course, we havent mentioned anything about the "institution" and its wishes for a status quo.
Everyone who actually has anything real to do with bakistan quickly realizes the nature of the quicksand.

Agriculture will sustain the population far longer than the media will have you believe. There is no possible counter to the "institution". You need to build an israel style wall instead of lasers and take an out of sight out of mind approach. Like Germany, and like Korea. In two generations, if the distraction is removed, and india manages to provide uniform civic services to all its current citizens then the walls will become redundant automatically. In the meantime, let them stew in their own juice.

Yes, for the individual growth and development in bakistan will continue to suffer and be further stunted. But going forward, bakistani society future is brighter rather than dull.

None of the rest of the world's business. We will laugh at the kendostyx just the same. And profit hamid types casn keep providing the material or not, that is relatively unimportant for the bositive neuj economy, as we can come up with our own jokes.

[Tuvaluan]

"Yes, for the individual growth and development in bakistan will continue to suffer and be further stunted. But going forward, bakistani society future is brighter rather than dull. "

Shreemanullah, so if I understand you, you are saying that farming and a more agrarian economy will keep pakistan going, but what will keep the 4 states together? Will the army play the "glue" that keeps disparate tribes from slicing each other's throats or taking over each other farm land? The paki army has already usurped most of the farming land, so it is likely that the new feudal lords will all be army personnel. But that should bring them head-to-head with the landless jihadis wanting a piece of the economic action, unless they can be bought off for a few bags of wheat or produce. The paki army seems to be already losing the plot and in control of less land compared to a decade ago.

Still not sure why you say pakistan's days are about to become brighter, when the country seems to have quite a bit more room to the bottom of the septic tank. Once Bakistan becomes unstable, their instability can be used against them by other countries that can benefit from their instability.

"Like Germany, and like Korea. In two generations, if the distraction is removed, and india manages to provide uniform civic services to all its current citizens then the walls will become redundant automatically. "

That seems to assume that these bunch of islamist psychos can be integrated to the Indian population without consequences -- sort of like inviting the plague to co-mingle with red blood cells. Korean integration is not about to happen, and in that case, the entire NoKo nation has been traumatized to be beholded to its military leadership...the NoKo citizens don't take it upon themselves to migrate to all parts of the world be a complete nuisance like the pakis do these days. Ditto for east germans. I don't think this comparison is valid.

However, I fully agree with the bit about India sticking to the business of enriching its citizens and doing bidness with all and sundry, excluding the pakis (who are anyway stupid enough to exclude themselves). Short of ensuring bullet through head of each of the scumbags across the border, thereby providing the right mental attitude for playing nice in India, it would be nothing short of suicidal to allow those jokers to integrate with India at any point in time in the future. I think this can already be seen by how these tools go and take over any democratic country they set their paki foot on.

Pakistan seems to be a country filled with delusional psychopaths (or at least people with severe mental defects due to religious/cultural brainwashing) and if they are also going to regress technologically and mentally and get all medieval, then I don't see what kind of forcing event/charateristic will force them out of the downward spiral...has to be some event that is extremely brutal and violent.

[Shreeman]

^^^
The lack of an alternative will keep the states together. Insurgencies do not materialise and succeed out of thin air. There is no real threat to bakistani integrity. The minutia are not important for lack of any real centers of power or wealth wanting to change the status quo.

If you ask the question -- who is the djinnah of any of the states and what are the resources that will support him -- you quickly realise that the plot is more one sided in favoir of the institution than ever before.

You cant predict what will happen in two generations, except hope for some equillibrium. It may turn out the germany way or the korea way or the ussr way eventually in bakistan. But for now, all this people to people, track ii, iii, samjhota, thar express, buses, gas, and medical tourism are nothing except bribes to bakistani elite and should be called out as such. There are probably profit centers in india connected to media/elite who directly benefit from these too.

Bakistani nature is the same as any other medieval tribal system. Slow moving, relatively inert to external influence. There is no evangelism possible. The whole psychopathic external face is also typical to keep outsiders out. The begging is natural to keep the elite satiated.

No one, including the kaptaan, or the good sharif or the bad sharif wants or claims bakistan will be switzerland or somalia tomorrow. They will move up or down a rank or two in the overall scheme of things. Why should anyone else have high hopes?

Rather there should be a thriving Nepal news and discussion, and a bhutan one, and one for burma. Instead of covering minutia of bakistani politics, this track ii, iii, road/rail should be connecting india to these countries, china, and asean.

The "institution" is strong enough right now in bakistan, and in the first generation since N-status. In time, a quest for moving beyond their poor fate may bring about change. But I am not optimistic. Inbdia is way too curious about bakistan, in a way it is not about nepal, bhutan, burma, or singapore, let alone china.

ps - i didnt intend nor do i envision reintegration of bakistan. merely more tolerable diplomatic relations along the lines of their arab four fathers. hajj trips yes, any real realtionship no. that is the future relationship with a developed bakistan.

[JE Menon]

Just for clarity, please note the below comment was made about Robin Raphel, not Christine Fair:

"She also had few kind words for the Ministry of External Affairs. “I like Pakistan, I like India, I like South Asia,’ she declared. ‘In India, I like the colour and the texture and the sensuality of the place and the interestingness of the people, except the bureaucrats, who in my experience are not worth the time of day.”

Fair's comments about why India did not like Raphel boils down, it appears, to sexism; which is of course nonsense, especially where MEA is concerned. Also she seems to think we had a better view of Holbrooke who apparently said much the same things, because he was male. Neither is accurate. Much was dependent on when these things happened. When Raphel came and said and did what she said and did, India was in a relatively weak and exposed position. When Holbrooke came with his nonsense, he was irrelevant (in fact) both in the US and in India, where I recall we clearly informed the US he would not be welcome in the country if India was explicitly included in his remit as the AfPak guy. He couldn't do much apart from some high profile visits here and there during floods and what not, and then he died. Nothing much to be said about his Afpak tenure.

[Shreeman]

Just for clarity, please note the below comment was made about Robin Raphel, not Christine Fair:

"She also had few kind words for the Ministry of External Affairs. “I like Pakistan, I like India, I like South Asia,’ she declared. ‘In India, I like the colour and the texture and the sensuality of the place and the interestingness of the people, except the bureaucrats, who in my experience are not worth the time of day.”

Fair's comments about why India did not like Raphel boils down, it appears, to sexism; which is of course nonsense, especially where MEA is concerned. Also she seems to think we had a better view of Holbrooke who apparently said much the same things, because he was male. Neither is accurate. Much was dependent on when these things happened. When Raphel came and said and did what she said and did, India was in a relatively weak and exposed position. When Holbrooke came with his nonsense, he was irrelevant (in fact) both in the US and in India, where I recall we clearly informed the US he would not be welcome in the country if India was explicitly included in his remit as the AfPak guy. He couldn't do much apart from some high profile visits here and there during floods and what not, and then he died. Nothing much to be said about his Afpak tenure.

IMHO, Not much more than passing comraderie towards a fallen fellow DC soldier. RR is now past tense. Fair herself is marginalized to the point of complaining about the poor broken toyota car. Doesnt appear there was emphasis on RR vs MEA, just what one needs to say under the circumstances.

[JE Menon]

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... ed-to-hate

A Scandinavian intervention has occurred. Strange people these Swedes and Norwegians. You never know where they'll pop up.

[chetak]

This is why the fakers are desperate for the trains and trucks to run and this is how the paki isi makes it's money

Pak drug peddlers use new ways to smuggle heroin into India

Gautam Dheer, Chandigarh:Nov 28, 2014


The seizure of nearly 7.5 kg of heroin by the Border Security Force and the Customs in Amritsar on Wednesday left many surprised. Packets of heroin were found stuffed inside the vacuum brake cylinders of the goods train from Pakistan. PTI file photo
Drug peddlers in Pakistan have found new ways to smuggle high-priced heroin into India through the Punjab border.

The seizure of nearly 7.5 kg of heroin by the Border Security Force and the Customs in Amritsar on Wednesday left many surprised. Packets of heroin were found stuffed inside the vacuum brake cylinders of the goods train from Pakistan.

The ploy was “unthinkable,” but security agencies moved in on specific inputs to foil the attempt. The vacuum cylinders of the goods train were cut open to find heroin packets shoved into pipes and hidden inside the brake cylinders.

In fact, the train from Pakistan has been notorious for smuggling drugs into India, just that the modus operandi keeps changing. There have been unsuccessful attempts from across the border to smuggle in heroin in cement bags, camouflaged leather items and even in agriculture equipment which were cut open, stuffed with drugs and later painted and welded back to shape by Pakistan-based peddlers.

Not just drugs, the train from Pakistan has also witnessed seizure of arms and ammunition. One of the biggest ever seizures of heroin in India was made some two years ago from this train from Pakistan.

Indian security personnel and customs officials then recovered over 101 kg of heroin, estimated to be worth Rs 500 crore in international market, from the Samjhauta Express.

The heroin was hidden in cement bags. Security agencies ended up recovering over 500 live cartridges from this train. Lakhs of rupees in counterfeit currency, too, had been seized in the past from inside coaches of the Samjhauta Express. If the train route for smuggling drugs is more meticulously planned, sources said, drug smuggling from the fenced border route has often been “crude.”

Packets of heroin stuffed in hollow plastic pipes have frequently been lobbed over the barbed wire fence into the Punjab side. Such operations have often taken place in pitch darkness or in extreme foggy winter climate.

Punjab falls in the line of the international drug trafficking zone dubbed the “Golden Crescent”. It is a major transit and destination point for drugs coming from Afghanistan and Pakistan. Since May to November 3 this year, the police have seized a record 240 kg of heroin from various parts of Punjab. Over 9,600 arrests have been made during this period under various sections of the Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances Act.

[arun]

Even belonging to a Mohammadden religio-political party like the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam Fazl (JUI-F) need not bestow immunity from Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden violence as in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan or as translated the Land of the Pure, there is always someone else who reckons that they are Greener and Purer giving them the right to exterminate the less Green and less pure.

Former Senator and JUI-F’s Secretary General for Sindh Province shot dead in a targeted assault while praying in a Mohammadden seminary aka Madrassah in Sukkur:

JUI-F secretary general Sindh shot dead in Sukkur

[Agnimitra]

Unnatural dichotomy of Sooth Asian Islam, writes a Paki in Paris:

http://iqballatif.newsvine.com/_news/20 ... tical-mind

[Anindya]

Russian Companies Offer USD 2 Billion Credit Line for Pakistan

Russian companies have expressed readiness to provide USD 2 billion credit for Pakistan's energy and steel sectors, according to a media report today.

The offers were made yesterday during Finance Minister Ishaq Dar's visit to Moscow to attend Third Pak-Russia Inter-Governmental Commission on Trade, Economic, Scientific and Technical Cooperation, the Dawn reported.

Senior executives of the Russian bank Vnesh­TorgovBank (VTB) met Dar and offered a credit line of USD 1 billion for energy projects in Pakistan, the paper said.

...
Also, a team of another Russian public-sector enterprise, Tyazh­promexport, headed by its First Deputy Director General Maxim Shabala, held talks with Dar and expressed interest in rehabilitating and refurbishing Pakistan Steel Mills (PSM).

The paper said Russia has shown willingness for another state credit line of USD 1 billion for the mill's refurbishment.

During the meetings, Pakistan and Russia expressed their determination to remove all impediments in the way of finalising plans and projects already agreed upon.

In a joint statement issued at the conclusion of the meeting, the two countries pledged to cooperate with each other and encourage private entrepreneurs.

Russian delegation was headed by Minister of Sport, Tourism and Youth policy Vitaly Mutko, who is also co-chair of the commission.

Both countries said they would cooperate in various projects related to oil and gas exploration; construction of floating LNG terminals, North-South gas pipeline from Gwadar to Nawabshah; sharing of seismic and geological data; enhanced oil recovery; LPG processing facility and gas purification plants; modernisation of oil and gas infrastructure etc.

The two sides discussed cooperation in transnational energy projects, including CASA-1000 and TAPI (Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India) gas pipeline.

Major Russian companies in the energy sector including Technopromexport, Rostec-Global Resources, Rushydro International, Power Machines, Inter RAO, United Engine Corporation, and Stochinsky Institute of Mining have shown keen interest in cooperation with Pakistan.

Russia's Mutko said both the countries enjoy strategic geographical locations and are endowed with rich human and material resources, which offer immense possibilities.

[SSridhar]

Unnatural dichotomy of Sooth Asian Islam, writes a Paki in Paris:

http://iqballatif.newsvine.com/_news/20 ... tical-mind

From the above, 'That is what ZAB used to call the Halwa wala maulvi.' Should be changed to read 'used to derisively call'. Let's remember that ZAB Islamized even more than Zia

[UlanBatori]

stuffed inside the vacuum brake cylinders of the goods train from Pakistan.

The ploy was “unthinkable,” but security agencies moved in on specific inputs to foil the attempt. The vacuum cylinders of the goods train were cut open to find heroin packets shoved into pipes and hidden inside the brake cylinders.

Small pooch: So if the security ppl had to "cut open the vacuum cylinders" how was the Herrowine to be recovered once the train reached India? Had to be in a train workshop, hain? Do ppl just amble by with acetylene torches and go under trains at stations?
And of course, how was it put there without complicity of ppl inside a workshop in TSP?
Given the level of technical and managerial access, how tough would be it to smuggle a **** like in 4th Protocol, this way?

Obviously this Samjhauta Exprej bijnej is being conducted in worse-than-chalta hai fashion. Wonder if they looked inside the wall panels of the compartments - a lot easier to put stuff there than inside brake cylinders. Or in the pakistans on the train.

[ritesh]

What is with Russians these days?
Do they really believe that pi$$ poor bakis can repay their monies?

[Tuvaluan]

"Do they really believe that pi$$ poor bakis can repay their monies?"

Could also be baksheesh to keep heroin out of Russia - pakis natural instinct is to be a nuisance and collect pay for not being a nuisance.

"Small pooch: So if the security ppl had to "cut open the vacuum cylinders" how was the Herrowine to be recovered once the train reached India? Had to be in a train workshop, hain? Do ppl just amble by with acetylene torches and go under trains at stations? "

Nice koschen. Maybe this was done just so the train/bogie will now be stationary for a thorough study of all the potential compartments in the train -- one can only hope this is to protect some operation underway to catch the culprits who think they have a one up by not needing blowtorches to retrieve the heroin. But definitely, the Indian side had some team cooperating to unload the trains of these drugs once they got to "maintenance". All of this camaraderie started with Capt. Amarinder Singh -- this heroin problem in Punjab is a resurgence in the last decade after coming down post-khalistan.

[Tuvaluan]

UB:"Given the level of technical and managerial access, how tough would be it to smuggle a **** like in 4th Protocol, this way? "

What a thought this one. The shamjhauta express should be shutdown or at the very least reduced in frequency so that every train can be taken apart and put back at the Indian end after a thorough check. Dont mean "taken apart" literally, there are devices that exist that can see through walls and metals these days to check for contraband in cavities, not to mention scanning for radiation.

[CRamS]

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... ed-to-hate

A Scandinavian intervention has occurred. Strange people these Swedes and Norwegians. You never know where they'll pop up.

JEMJi, I agree with Fair Didi who was quoted in that commentary, namely, RR was a cog in the wheel, and India's anger is misplaced. She was only executing US policy as a whole. I mean why is RR shunned by Indians, and a pervert like Billy "BJ" Clinton embraced as a hero when the scum bag among other things said that Chattisingpura massacre by Paki pigLeTs was actually undertaken by "Hindu extremists" on the eve of his visit (preface to NotBright's book).

But on the sexism part, I disagree with Fair didi. She should direct her ire against her own male counterparts. I doubt any of the big boys in DC take her views on TSP seriously, although I am sure they chuckle at her tough talk (like a dad would as his teen age daughter comes of age).

Furthermore, the sexsim is actually in the reverse. These uppity white chics like RR openly display their machismo and condescension towards SDRE diplomats, and naturally, that won't cut any ice with the latter. Can a US female diplomat talk down to say someone like Bibi NuttinYahoo and pummel him for "human rights" violations against Palestinians like RR did to us SDREs? Will US dispatch an RR like diplomat to London or Paris?

[Dipanker]

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... ed-to-hate

A Scandinavian intervention has occurred. Strange people these Swedes and Norwegians. You never know where they'll pop up.

JEMJi, I agree with Fair Didi who was quoted in that commentary, namely, RR was a cog in the wheel, and India's anger is misplaced. She was only executing US policy as a whole. I mean why is RR shunned by Indians, and a pervert like Billy "BJ" Clinton embraced as a hero when the scum bag among other things said that Chattisingpura massacre by Paki pigLeTs was actually undertaken by "Hindu extremists" on the eve of his visit (preface to NotBright's book).

But on the sexism part, I disagree with Fair didi. She should direct her ire against her own male counterparts. I doubt any of the big boys in DC take her views on TSP seriously, although I am sure they chuckle at her tough talk (like a dad would as his teen age daughter comes of age).

Furthermore, the sexsim is actually in the reverse. These uppity white chics like RR openly display their machismo and condescension towards SDRE diplomats, and naturally, that won't cut any ice with the latter. Can a US female diplomat talk down to say someone like Bibi NuttinYahoo and pummel him for "human rights" violations against Palestinians like RR did to us SDREs? Will US dispatch an RR like diplomat to London or Paris?

It doesn't have to be complicated, the Indian disliked RR because of her obvious tilt towards Pakistan, American policy not withstanding. And now they stand vindicated.

The stupid Albright preface comments on Chattisingpura massacre were completely negated by the NewYork Times investigative report where the reporter traced it back to L-e-T.

[vishvak]

Is there another example of train full of narcotics allowed to run across borders? Samjhota is turning out to be a very bad idea. In some countries like Singapore or even STFUP birather gulf countries, such narcotic handlers would be dealt very strong punishment. Actually in these countries, people are hanged for trafficking.

[CRamS]

DipankerJi,

Fair Didi is only saying it is US policy, and RR only executed that with aplomb. Just look at what we are seeing post 9/11, post OBL find right under Kiyani's nose; its back to India TSP equal equal, with TSP punching above its weight. TSP should have been cut to size by US given what US has suffered resulting from its perfidy, but continues to be a nuisance for India. And that is not because of RR, its systemic US policy. And that is Fair Didi's observation. She in fact sympathizes with India's frustration but says it is misplaced.

[JE Menon]

>>It doesn't have to be complicated, the Indian disliked RR because of her obvious tilt towards Pakistan, American policy not withstanding.

Exactly.

CRamS,

I frankly don't care why the US appoints beaatch A or oiseaule B to India, or whether they would appoint them to Russia or anywhere else. For all I care, they can appoint John McCain to anoint Kashmir as disputed territory. If he does, we will treat him like an oiseaule, and will call him one. Bottomline, whoever it is, they are going to get jacksh1t from us in concessions. J&K is none of their business. In the beginning they were forcing themselves into it, but times have changed and so have their perceptions. This is a straw man. No one in the US now of any consequence wants India to hand over anything to the Paks. Still, they have to say "nice doggie" to the rabid pie-dogs across the border. So do we. Sooner or later, it will bite someone and it will be put down. Or it will be suitably medicated - self or otherwise - and will change.

[JE Menon]

>>its back to India TSP equal equal, with TSP punching above its weight. TSP should have been cut to size by US given what US has suffered resulting from its perfidy, but continues to be a nuisance for India. And that is not because of RR, its systemic US policy.

Boss, sorry but this is complete nonsense and emotional word jugglery. TSP punching above its weight? Really? And who is saying India-TSP equal equal? And this sentence "TSP should have been cut to size by US given what US has suffered resulting from its perfidy, but continues to be a nuisance for India", is a sophisticated bait. The first part has nothing to do with India, only reflecting American impotence, while the second part (completely unconnected to the first, in fact) is simply a statement of the reality since the creation of Pakistan. Or are you depending on the US to neutralise Pakistan for India? That sounds like an American proposition, with our expected question to be "for how much"? Well, the Indian position has always been for such propositions: for zero thank you. In short, do it in your own interests and don't expect us to pay for you to take down a monster you created.

All this can be done in a particular diplomatic way. RR didn't and thought she could browbeat Indian diplomats, or impose her personal style on us. She couldn't. We didn't care for her personal style. Indian circles regarded her as a pro-Pakistan bitch, and many still do I'm sure. It does not matter if she was implementing US policy. She did it like a bitch. Fair didi, much though I like her recent Damascene conversion, must take it on the chin and move on.

[CRamS]

JEMJi, the thrust of Fair Didi's comments, that I agree with, are that India is unhappy with US policies, basically helping TSP (whether we agree or not that TSP punches above its weight, doesn't matter, it does), and India's angst is mis-directed towards RR. Now I agree with you that RR brought to bear certain traits that didn't quite endear herself to SDRE diplomats, but she could have been ignored were she not executing US policy.

As for India TSP equal equal back on track, kindly read all the AP/Reuters reports of late quoting "US officials", including yesterday's attack in the Arnia sector. Its as though terrorists came from the sky and its only India alleging that they came from TSP, and TSP is so innocent that it calls for a UN investigation.

[Tuvaluan]

"Its as though terrorists came from the sky and its only India alleging that they came from TSP, and TSP is so innocent that it calls for a UN investigation."

Seriously, what is with all this whinging? the UNMOGIP has been sent packing out of the region and out of India for good, and the UN's influence in India is non existential. The pakis will whine, and the oiseaules in the west will make tut-tut-ing sounds to please their byaatch into complacency, so that they can throw them some more loans and make them kill pakis with the drones under alleged paki control (yeah, sure, why not). Really, so what if the tools in the NYTimes and XYZ push the paki line along with the state dept.? None of this makes any difference to events on the ground, and more than they did in the past, and even back then the influence was negligible, and it seems to be even less so now. The US state dept. tools can speak of India and pakistan in the same breath to soothe pakistan's swollen glands, but why is that any of India's concerns? India has to resolve these issues in its own space and time, and a few random press reports from North America will make no difference, no matter which way they are slanted.

[Dipanker]

JEMJi, the thrust of Fair Didi's comments, that I agree with, are that India is unhappy with US policies, basically helping TSP (whether we agree or not that TSP punches above its weight, doesn't matter, it does), and India's angst is mis-directed towards RR. Now I agree with you that RR brought to bear certain traits that didn't quite endear herself to SDRE diplomats, but she could have been ignored were she not executing US policy.

As for India TSP equal equal back on track, kindly read all the AP/Reuters reports of late quoting "US officials", including yesterday's attack in the Arnia sector. Its as though terrorists came from the sky and its only India alleging that they came from TSP, and TSP is so innocent that it calls for a UN investigation.

CRamS,

Where India and Pakistan stand today, there is no equal - equal, given the relative size of these two countries there can never be an equal - equal. So I wouldn't worry too much about what AP/Reuters/Economists says, you just have to ignore them and don't let it affect you so much.

We must look at the bigger picture, and not lose sight of the forest for the trees.

[Anujan]

Is is 6.75% per annum or 6.75% over 5 years?? Basicaly, are they going to be paying out $67.5 mil or $337.5 mil at the end of 5 years?]

It is 6.75% per annum and not 6.75% over 5 years. US 5 year treasury is more than 1.6% per annum, which is more than 8% over 5 years. Who will buy Albakistan bond at 6.75% over 5 years, if you can buy US treasuries at higher than 8% Even if you get a motorway free with that

Tell me something - what do you do with a USD 1 billion loan to justify 6.5% interest rate?

I can understand that from private sector's perspective, raising money abroad amounts to access to capital with lower cost and the business returns will cover the loan payment. But why Al-Bakistan government? Is it another short terms measure to service other existing loans or cover some long outstanding payments by GOI (to prevent some catastrophic default)? After all, they live from one crisis to another.

Loan is being used for Sialkot statistics. Basically IMF has asked Pakistan to increase its foreign exchange reserves to about 13.5 Billion$ from about 8 Billion $ to approve the next tranche of loans. AlBakistan wanted to do that by selling Shares of OGDCL, but the supreme court put the kibbosh on it (Pakistan supreme court has an opinion about everything. Including price of samosas. I am not kidding )

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/the-h ... ict-247749

Pakistanis will have to shell out more for samosas following a Supreme Court ruling, a move that has left a leading Pakistani daily wondering whether it was the "court's best use of time".

But I digress. Coming back to the original point, Supreme court blocked OGDCL sales. Pakistan came up with a Lahori Logic. They will "announce" sale of OGDCL, people will "buy" shares of OGDCL, not pay any money. AlBakistan will "Book" the sales value and the actual transaction will take place after all legal hurdles are resolved. That way in their book of Beshawar Bookkeeping, they can show more money than they have, based on notional sales This shenanigans, along with the fact that worldwide oil prices are falling means that nobody wanted to "buy" OGDCL. So now AlBakistan needs to raise money somehow. Hence the Sukuk bonds.

The way AlBakistan thinks about it is, they will raise 1 Billion $ with 6.75% interest, based on that they will get loans from IMF with 2.2% interest by showing increased forex reserves and not defaulting on IMF loans, pay off the 6.75% interest with the IMF money and therefore have lower effective interest on what is 7 Billion $ in loans.

[member_22733]

Simple only, at the end of 5 years, they will be asking for $2B phukphuk (or whatever) bonds. $1.335 B goes to this round of ponzi participants, and the rest goes into the phukphuk ponzi scheme organizer.

Totally halal.

[CRamS]

Who is this moron Tom Hussein?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/11/28/2 ... nship.html

[Tuvaluan]

^^^ actually that article seems well informed for a change without any of the usual bromides or BS. recognizes that the shelling has shifted close to the InternationaL border and India's response has been punitive.

[SSridhar]

I am not going to split my hair on this policy vs personality issue. I hate both, fair or no(t) Fair.

[CRamS]

^^^ actually that article seems well informed for a change without any of the usual bromides or BS. recognizes that the shelling has shifted close to the InternationaL border and India's response has been punitive.

No BS? The farticle is Pakisque cursorily mentioning terror attacks like 26/11 as though it was some trivial incident. Pakis do this routinely. I assume this guys is a Paki.

[CRamS]

SSJi, what are you referring to?

[SSridhar]

SSJi, what are you referring to?

Referring to the RR issue

[CRamS]

SSJi, what are you referring to?

Referring to the RR issue

So you agree with my analysis?

[sadhana]

http://tribune.com.pk/story/798851/the- ... fghan-war/
Shahzad Chaudhry

The prime minister made two distinct recommendations in turn: he asked the American president to help resolve the Kashmir issue with India, and two, he probably asked him to use some influence on Imran Khan to ease some pressure on his government. The American ambassador duly visited Imran Khan at his residence the next day. Whether this will be sufficient to placate some of the prime minister’s ire remains to be seen. But it has the making of some coordinated functioning among the three sides, perhaps for the first time since 2002

We could back in a RR era as far as JK and Umrika's interference are concerned.