Indian Space Programme Discussion

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 30 Nov 2014 18:05

Payload fairing looks huge, but the capsule itself is so small. Were these pictures taken inside vehicle assembly building?

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 30 Nov 2014 18:19

chetan_chpd wrote:
Q. why test only re-entry module and not service module also (or there's no SM planned)?

The service module for the OV was finalized to be based on modified 4th stage of PSLV a couple of years back. Also, notice that the capsule is being launched backwards whereby the imaginary astronauts will be facing the ground instead of the sky. This a purely scientific mission. A normal OV stack would be very different from this. The aim of this launch is to test the re-entry tech.

prashanth wrote:Payload fairing looks huge, but the capsule itself is so small. Were these pictures taken inside vehicle assembly building?

We are just seeing the reentry capsule here as this is just an experimental mission. LVM3 has enough capacity to accommodate a orbital module in addition to the service and return modules (similar to Soyuz and Shenzhou).

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 30 Nov 2014 18:37

Thanks KrishG.
Another question. I haven't seen a window in the re-entry module so far. If it doesn't have one, how would the crew align the module for retro rocket firing?

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 30 Nov 2014 19:02

For what its worth this would probably be the "final" configuration

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 30 Nov 2014 19:10

prashanth wrote:Thanks KrishG.
Another question. I haven't seen a window in the re-entry module so far. If it doesn't have one, how would the crew align the module for retro rocket firing?

Again, this a technology validation mission. The actual OV will resemble the current CARE only in terms of the overall design. The final version will have 2 windows. In this mission, ISRO has chosen not to include to the windows (can be for a variety of reasons).

Overall, this mission will not add any more ground breaking understanding to what we already possess through SREs and in house testing. This mission is taking place not because it is necessary but because it will help us increase our understanding and validate our technology in a suborbital flight instead of it flying with just a payload simulator.

Mind you, this mission was neither part of the LVM3 development nor that of Human Spaceflight Program. It was only planned a couple of years back as the full launch vehicle would still take some time to fly. Instead of flying it with a payload simulator or something insignificant, ISRO chose to put the boilerplate of the OV.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 30 Nov 2014 19:14

Since this is a boiler plate version

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boilerplate_(spaceflight)

There may be further modifications. So the next version may have the doors and windows etc placed in subsequent tests.Probably they may have to validate seals of the doors and glass for the windows.

member_28840 · Post by **member_28840** » 30 Nov 2014 19:46

Any idea what the timing of this launch is?

I hope it is a night launch, i was able to view the IRNSS 1C launch with the naked eye, including a massive sheet of flame during 1st stage separation.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 30 Nov 2014 21:14

xave wrote:Any idea what the timing of this launch is?

I hope it is a night launch, i was able to view the IRNSS 1C launch with the naked eye, including a massive sheet of flame during 1st stage separation.

Morning..

mody · Post by **mody** » 01 Dec 2014 14:11

What is supposed to be the main focus of the GSLV MkIII launch, to test the GSLV MkIII or to test the re-entry crew module?

I was under the impression, that the main focus is supposed to be the GSLV MKIII and since this is a dummy flight, instead of putting in a dummy payload, ISRO decided to put the crew module in, as the payload and test the re-entry as well.
Is my understanding correct?
Also, if this is the case, why not have the cryo stage in there the test the GSLV MKIII, with the full config? GSLV MKIII is going to be our workhorse launcher for 3 ton+ geostationary satellites and will finally free us from dependence on Ariane space. The faster we can get it ready and fully operational the better it will be for the country. Also will eventually give us entry into the lucrative geostationary launch market.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 01 Dec 2014 14:27

We have not fully developed the C 20 engine. In the meanwhile we are testing the other components and a boilerplate crew module. If the atmospheric flight parameters are validated things can proceed fourther. If there are problems they can be solved by the time the cryogenic engine is fully ready

mody · Post by **mody** » 01 Dec 2014 15:58

Ok got it. Got confused between the CE-20 and the CE-7.5 cryo engines. The MKIII is to use the under development CE-20 engine.

Can't wait for the day, when we can put the final config GSLV MkIII into action.

bharats · Post by **bharats** » 01 Dec 2014 20:33

Department of space fell short on transponders goal: CAG
Government auditor finds DoS was able to achieve only 22% of target of making available 218 Ku band transponders, used mainly by satellite TV distributors

Read more at: http://www.livemint.com/Politics/3cD3KJ ... ource=copy

Full report at http://www.indiantelevision.com/links/C ... report.PDF

member_28332 · Post by **member_28332** » 02 Dec 2014 00:19

Folks,

What is the black conical thing on which the crew module is mounted? Is it just a payload mount?

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 02 Dec 2014 16:21

Prasannasimha or Krish, excuse the dumb citizen's question, but when they refer to a shortfall in DTH transponder use/capacity, they are talking about only that band, Ku, are they not? The C and extended C band are being used normally and extensively by the existing 9 or 10 Indian satellites. And moreover, Indian Insats and Gsats do predominate in those bands, and whatever other bands, correct?

I really wish the DOS would be more forthcoming as to what satellites are beaming what channels, and how many channels. I was certain Tata-Sky had obtained the GSAT-10 signals, but according to the information in the CAG report, that is not the case. Again, it's confusing or uncertain- has Tata-Sky obtained the C and extended C frequencies aboard GSAT-10, but been denied( or themselves turned down) the Ku band, or is it the entire satellite that Tata-Sky has refused/been denied?

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 02 Dec 2014 18:10

Tata-sky did not get the transponders. The problem was they were to get that based on the launches of the GSLV but with the GSLV program not functioning properly due to the cryogenic engine issue there was a severe constraint. It was not denial but problem related to launch ability. Hopefully if the GSLV program is consistent we should be able to supply enough transponder capacity.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 02 Dec 2014 18:16

I am not sure but the black thing that is being asked may be a payload assist module.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 02 Dec 2014 22:34

PRajaram wrote:Folks,

What is the black conical thing on which the crew module is mounted? Is it just a payload mount?

It's the payload adapter. It keeps the payload attached to the launch vehicle till it's time to be released. This is the one used for satellites and other conventional payloads.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 03 Dec 2014 17:42

prasannasimha wrote:Tata-sky did not get the transponders. The problem was they were to get that based on the launches of the GSLV but with the GSLV program not functioning properly due to the cryogenic engine issue there was a severe constraint. It was not denial but problem related to launch ability. Hopefully if the GSLV program is consistent we should be able to supply enough transponder capacity.

Speaking of which, there was, as well all know, a very successful flight back on Jan 5th, of the GSLV D5. The satellite was the GSAT-14.

What has become of that satellite? Surely, it would be fully operational by now. What channels is it beaming? It would have helped to reduce the chronic transponder shortage in India. DOS should be more forthright!

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 03 Dec 2014 17:54

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 354501.cms

BENGALURU: A two-year-old startup is aiming to be the first Indian company to design and manufacture satellites as it gears up for a commercial launch within the next two years. Dhruva Space, co-founded by space technologist Sanjay Nekkanti, is developing two satellites that weigh less than 30 kg each — the first one will be a technology demonstrator and the second, a private satellite for the Indian arm of Amateur Radio Operators, a global non-profit body that promote

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 03 Dec 2014 21:29

Seems to be that GSAT 14 transponders are being used for research currently GSAT14 and GSAT 11S were both considered as experimental and not commercial satellites. I think they did not want to promise transponders to commercial organization (and run into problems like Tata Sky suing etc) when they were trying out the refurbished fully Indian CUS stage for the first time.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 03 Dec 2014 21:33

http://www.indiantelevision.com/satelli ... ars-140712

NEW DELHI: After the announcement of Budget 2014 allocations, the space department has laid down the future programme for 2020.

The plan envisages development of advanced launch vehicle systems, thematic earth observational satellites with improved resolution, high-power, high-throughput communication satellites, microwave multi-spectral remote sensing satellites, weather and climate studies, constellation of satellites for regional navigation, development of critical technologies for human spaceflight and satellites for space science and planetary exploration purposes.

Fourteen of the 58 space missions slated in the 12th Five Year Plan, 2012-17 are linked to communication. In addition, five launch vehicle missions will also be linked to these satellites.

GSAT-10, GSAT-15, GSAT-16, GSAT-17 and GSAT-18 are specifically communication satellites to augment the INSAT system with C and Ku band transponders. GSAT-9 will be a communication satellite to augment the INSAT system with C band transponders. GSAT-14 and GSAT-11S will be experimental communication satellites, while GSAT-6 and GSAT-6A will be multi-media mobile communication satellites for strategic applications.

GSAT-7 is a communication satellite for special users, and both GSAT-11 and GSAT-Ka are advanced Ka band satellite for VSAT communications. GSAT-19E is a new generation experimental communication satellite.

Close to Rs 1867 crore has been spent on the five satellites meant for communication launched in the last three years, out of the total Rs 1987 crore allocated for this purpose. It can be noted this amount was spent by 31 March this year.

According to sources in the Department of Space, these satellites are GSAT-14 (launched on 5 January this year), GSAT-7 (launched on 30 August last year to reach a wide area over the oceans including the Indian mass), GSAT-10 (launched on 29 September 2012 for communication and navigation), GSAT-12 (launched on 15 July 2011) and GSAT-8 (launched on 21 May 2011 for communication and navigation).

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 03 Dec 2014 21:35

Someone wa asking about the "dark thing" below the Crew module. It is indeed the payload adapter (as commented by one of our members) as can be seen in this image

member_28332 · Post by **member_28332** » 03 Dec 2014 21:54

^^^ Thanks Prasannasimha and KrishG. I had asked that question.

SSSalvi · Post by **SSSalvi** » 04 Dec 2014 05:17

Varoon Shekhar wrote:Prasannasimha or Krish, excuse the dumb citizen's question, but when they refer to a shortfall in DTH transponder use/capacity, they are talking about only that band, Ku, are they not? The C and extended C band are being used normally and extensively by the existing 9 or 10 Indian satellites. And moreover, Indian Insats and Gsats do predominate in those bands, and whatever other bands, correct?

I really wish the DOS would be more forthcoming as to what satellites are beaming what channels, and how many channels. I was certain Tata-Sky had obtained the GSAT-10 signals, but according to the information in the CAG report, that is not the case. Again, it's confusing or uncertain- has Tata-Sky obtained the C and extended C frequencies aboard GSAT-10, but been denied( or themselves turned down) the Ku band, or is it the entire satellite that Tata-Sky has refused/been denied?

As per the regular database I use ( to search TV transponders ) :

5 GSATs are in Space : GSAT-10 and GSAT-12 @ 83degE, GSAT-7 and GST-14 @ 74degE and GST -8 @55degE

G-Sat 7 was launched with Ariane 5 - VA215 2013-08-29.

G-Sat 8 was launched with Ariane 5 - VA202 2011-05-20. It has 4 ManaTV channels and ISRO channel in Ku band.

G-Sat 10 was launched with Ariane 5 - VA209 2012-09-28. It has 11 DD channels and 5 Radio channels on it in C Band.

G-Sat 12 was launched with PSLV 2011-07-15.

G-Sat 14 was launched with GSLV 2014-01-05.

For remaining satellites the status is : " Data currently not available". Hopefully they are being used for some 'other' services.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Dec 2014 07:17

GSLV Mark III faces its first experimental flight - N.Gopal Raj, The Hindu

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 04 Dec 2014 11:55

"GSAT-14 and GSAT-11S will be experimental communication satellites"

GSAT-14 at 1982 kg, is larger than the first two Indian Insats 2A and 2B, 1906kg and 1932kg respectively. Those were both fully functional satellites, broadcasting TV channels. With GSAT-14, after a brief experimental phase, why wouldn't they convert it into a commercial or normally operational satellite? That transponder capacity could be used for some channels, even government ones. It's been 11 months since the satellite was launched, what experiments would they still be doing, in theory?

SSSalvi- at least 4 more satellites are still working- Insat 3a, 4a, 4b and 4cr

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 04 Dec 2014 12:04

My own question answered, partly

, from Wiki, GSAT-14: It will also be a replacement for the first "Edusat".

The satellite carries six Ku-band and six Extended C-band transponders to provide coverage of the whole of India. The satellite is expected to provide enhanced broadcasting services over the GSAT-3 satellite. GSAT-14 also carries two Ka-band beacons which will be used to conduct research into how weather affects Ka-band satellite communications. Fibre optic gyro, active pixel sun sensor, round type bolometer and field programmable gate array based earth sensors and thermal control coating experiments are new technologies which were flown as experiments in the satellite. The satellite is powered by two solar arrays, generating 2,600 watts of power.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 04 Dec 2014 22:53

Also may be used for security purposes etc etc.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 04 Dec 2014 23:16

GSAT-16 Update:Due to inclement weather at the launch base in Kourou - the launch of GSAT-16 satellite onboard Ariane 5 VA221 is postponed.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 05 Dec 2014 01:22

chetan_chpd wrote:
this is additional infographic about upcoming launch...

Q. why test only re-entry module and not service module also (or there's no SM planned)?

Can somebody explain why the third image in the launch sequence (the one after the crew module is ejected) gets bigger? There seems to be some thing in addition to the crew module just behind it. How did it get there? TIA

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 05 Dec 2014 02:20

^^^ There are two things above that one should note:
1) Since the CUS20 is still not developed the upper stage of this rocket wont be tested completely (it cannot launch a satellite in orbit at the upper stage, not enough velocity). So they decided to put the crew module in place of a satellite and test it out for re-entry. Brilliant idea

2) The crew module doesnt get bigger, it just re-orients itself to increase beta and re-enter the atmosphere. So its shown as bright red. Then it deploys the parachute to glide down. This is just a test to make sure the re-entry regime and the necessary aerodynamics are evaluated. Usually human re-entry systems need the g-forces to a low value (and not burn out or glide out into space at the same time). The window for re-entry is pretty narrow.

The re-orientation of the module changes the drag coefficient (beta) of the system, which changes the height and the deceleration profile of re-entry.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 05 Dec 2014 02:46

^^I am not talking about the crew module but the thing behind it which is not shown during ejection. You seem to be talking about images much later in the sequence while I am talking about the third image from the launch pad.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 05 Dec 2014 03:46

^^^ totally kanphoosed. Sorry

Added later:
Are you talking about the horizontal thing that looks like its coasting? That is the upper stage, and its not drawn to scale

. Also it does not show stage separation properly. The image is focused more on the re-entry part rather than the launch part.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 05 Dec 2014 04:00

prasannasimha wrote:For what its worth this would probably be the "final" configuration

That is a bit odd, because the re-entry surface sits right in between the crew module and the service module. There must be a detaching mechanism on the re-entry surface (which seems highly implausible, since it has to be as smooth as possible). The service module will be detached and jettisoned sometime before re-entry. I think the the crew module should be turned upside down for a more accurate picture. IMVVHO.

But then I am no rocket scientist

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 05 Dec 2014 04:41

LokeshC wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:For what its worth this would probably be the "final" configuration

That is a bit odd, because the re-entry surface sits right in between the crew module and the service module. There must be a detaching mechanism on the re-entry surface (which seems highly implausible, since it has to be as smooth as possible). The service module will be detached and jettisoned sometime before re-entry. I think the the crew module should be turned upside down for a more accurate picture. IMVVHO.

But then I am no rocket scientist

The new Orion crew module of NASA seems to have the broader part as the base like in the picture, while the India crew module has the narrow part down attached to the service module.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 05 Dec 2014 04:42

LokeshC wrote:^^^ totally kanphoosed. Sorry

Added later:
Are you talking about the horizontal thing that looks like its coasting? That is the upper stage, and its not drawn to scale . Also it does not show stage separation properly. The image is focused more on the re-entry part rather than the launch part.

Thanks, it must be the upper ~~state~~ stage then. Is it the norm for the payload fairings to come off before the CUS detaches?

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 05 Dec 2014 04:59

Yes, the upper stages usually run parallel to the surface for thousands of kms. At that height there is no atmosphere so you dont need fairings (extra weight). The upper stages impart a large part velocity needed to put a body into initial orbit, which usually is a elliptical transfer orbit.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 05 Dec 2014 05:47

Was looking at the Orion module. That also has the crew module attached to the service module the same way as our module has been. But they have a "crew-module-adaptor" which attaches to the crew module at a different place than the re-entry surface.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 05 Dec 2014 17:43

From ISRO's website, the launch of GSAT-16 has been delayed for just a day! Will be launched tomorrow, early morning, IST.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 05 Dec 2014 22:39

The orientation of the crew module to the service module is correct.the upper part would hold a docking port and the blunt edge which will face rentry will be held by an adaptor