Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec 2014

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 29 Dec 2014 20:08

abhishek_sharma wrote:The Indian Express ‏@IndianExpress 5m5 minutes ago
#ZakiurRehmanLakhvi submits surety bond, to be released anytime now
http://iexp.in/GBd132818

From the safe hands of ISI into the open. Best chance for bad taliban to avenge him.

arun · Post by **arun** » 29 Dec 2014 20:20

Journalist Farhan Bokhari writing for the UK’s Financial Times (FT) claimed that the Islamic Republic Of Pakistan’s Minister of Petroleum and Natural Resources, Shahid Khaqan Abbasi, had indicated that the worlds other Islamic Republic, Iran, had agreed “to step back from demanding $200m a month from January 1 to compensate for Islamabad’s failure to begin receiving gas from Iran’s South Pars gasfield” :

Pakistan and Iran reach agreement on unmet gas deal

Government of Iran controlled press agency, Islamic Republic News Agency aka IRNA, reports that the Islamic Republic Of Pakistan’s Minister of Petroleum and Natural Resources, Shahid Khaqan Abbasi has “reiterated that he had never made such a statement in his recent interview with the FT.”:

Pak minister denies FT report on gas pipeline

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 29 Dec 2014 20:23

This Lakhvi business is done to spite Modi & Co among other things. Any clues on how India is going to react? Summoning TSP amby, having their scum bags on DDM and pleading with them, writing poems for Peshawar victims etc is not going to cut it.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 29 Dec 2014 20:26

CRamS wrote:This Lakhvi business is done to spite Modi & Co among other things. Any clues on how India is going to react? Summoning TSP amby, having their scum bags on DDM and pleading with them, writing poems for Peshawar victims etc is not going to cut it.

My new year present will be served if this guy meets his 72 because of some sun roof lever malfunction during his victory parade.

Virendra · Post by **Virendra** » 29 Dec 2014 20:37

Anyone saw the Adnan Rashid (TTP) video doing rounds on ABP news?
Exposing PA in fluent English

arun · Post by **arun** » 29 Dec 2014 20:49

^^^ Yes. The Adnan Rashid interview was posted back on Page 30 of this thread:

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1771488

arun · Post by **arun** » 29 Dec 2014 21:01

Dilbu wrote:Three Iranian Revolutionary Guards killed near Pakistan border
Three members of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC), sent to reinforce border police, were killed in an attack in the southeast of Iran near Pakistan, according to Iranian media reports on Monday.

Armed "bandits" killed the IRGC members late on Sunday near the city Saravan in the Sistan-Baluchistan region, according to a Revolutionary Guards statement carried by Fars news agency.

Similar attacks, usually against police officers and border guards, happen in the border region several times a year.

Sistan-Baluchistan has history of unrest with the mainly Sunni Muslim population complaining of discrimination by Iran's Shi'ite Muslim authorities. The area is also rife with drug and arms traffickers.

The report did not give the identity of the armed group.

The prompt Iranian riposte to Pakistani provocations:

'Retaliatory action': Iran fires 42 mortar shells into Balochistan

Today the Daily Beast also carried an article about broader tensions at the border between the two Islamic Republics:

The Dangerous Drug-Funded Secret War Between Iran and Pakistan

Earlier The Diplomat on November 30th carried a similar article about border tensions between the two Islamic Republics:

Pakistan-Iran Border Stress

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 29 Dec 2014 21:11

Aditya_V wrote: This I believe is creative History. IG was very committed to a unified Pakistan and if not Pakistani stupidy and massacres in 1971 would not have been in favour of Bangladesh.

Really, any relevant quotes to show that Mrs IG was committed to a unified Pakistan beyond lip-service?

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 29 Dec 2014 21:40

The Gulf Arab foundations of terror

As Pakistan reels from yet another terrorist attack, this time on schoolchildren in Peshawar, the world is stunned and united in its pain at the loss of innocent women and children. The brutal tactics of the Taliban in Pakistan have been replicated by the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq. The most significant element that is absent in the Pakistani response is that of the civilian government

We have noted in earlier Nikkei Asian Review articles that the groups in Iraq and Syria have been trying to link up with groups in Pakistan. However one can argue that the Arab militant groups now operating in Egypt, Algeria, Iraq and Syria all owe their existence to the geopolitical and religious landscape in the Pakistan of the 1980s.

The two most prominent Pakistan-based terrorists, Ramzi bin Al-Shibh and Khaled Sheikh Mohammed, were both products of Gulf Arab funding and training of militants and mosques in Pakistan. It must be noted that the first-ever suicide bombing in Pakistan was carried out by an Egyptian group in November 1995.

Two of Egypt's most decorated generals, General el Gamasy and General el Shazly, had cautioned Egypt against playing with fire by linking its policies with those of the Gulf Arabs. With regard to ISIL, elements have existed in Pakistan for 30 years due to massive Arab funding and close links to the wars in Bosnia, Chechnya and of course Afghanistan.

Abu Musa Zarqawi, who founded al-Qaeda in Iraq, lived in Pakistan for 10 years. Furthermore, at least half of the top leadership of al-Qaeda and most of the top members of Egyptian terror groups have been captured or killed in Pakistan. There has been a disturbing systematic link to Arab terrorists and Pakistan. Moving eastward, these same Arab militant groups have sown seeds in Indonesia, the Philippines and Malaysia.

The perpetrators in of the heinous attack in Peshawar were heard speaking Arabic. While it has not been confirmed whether all the attackers were of Arab origin, it is certain that a few were. If confirmed, this, along with the Khost bombing in December 2009 that killed a dozen CIA officers, would constitute a major Arab "breach" of Pakistan's Taliban movement.

The current prime minister of Pakistan, Nawaz Sharif, spent almost a decade in exile in Saudi Arabia. Since his return to power just over a year ago, Sharif has brought a lot of Gulf Arab investment into Pakistan. Relations between the Gulf Cooperation Council and Pakistan were strong long before Sharif's tenure, but one can argue that never before have we seen such an array of swift visits by ruling monarchs of Gulf states, including the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia. The Gulf princes own thousands of hectares of land in southern Punjab, which they use for hunting, falconry and farming. It is no coincidence that this is also where the Punjabi Taliban emerged.

If you talk to most young Pakistani Army officers, who have seen plenty of combat on the Afghan frontier for the last 10 years, you will see a significant shift in attitudes regarding the threat Pakistan face. The internal war that is now being waged in Pakistan has a contradictory face. The war the Pakistan Army is fighting is very different from that of the civilian government and the major political parties.

Greatest threat

Therein lies the greatest threat to regional stability, and indeed to the social fabric of the country. After the attack on the school on Dec. 16, Sharif lifted the moratorium on the death penalty. However, just two days later, on Dec. 18, one of the most infamous terror suspects from southern Punjab, who has significant Gulf Arab backing, was released.

Furthermore, the man who killed the former governor of Punjab remains in a luxury prison without fear of trial. He has also reportedly incited two more killings from his prison cell. The three main political parties of Pakistan, the PML, PPP and PTI, have all failed in their quest to fight terrorism. The PML under Sharif has historical links with the Gulf states that have nurtured extremism in Pakistan. The PPP, under first Benazir Bhutto and then Asif Ali Zardari, simply looked the other way as they took corruption to unprecedented levels. In fact, Zardari did nothing to punish the killer of his close friend Salman Taseer, the former governor of the country's largest province. Nor did he do much to bring to justice the murderers of his wife, Benazir Bhutto, who was assassinated in 2007.

There has been a complete failure on the part of Pakistan's political parties and judiciary in tackling terror. In fact, it can be argued that the civilian leaders of Pakistan have indirectly aided and abetted terrorism in Pakistan. Since the arrival of the first Sharif government after that of former President Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq, one can chart the emergence of the links between Wahabi terrorism and Sharif's efforts toward a new form of Islam in Pakistan.

As today Pakistan repeatedly comes in the headlines for its terror relations to Afghanistan, Syria, and Saudi Arabia, one cannot sit back and ignore the current rumblings in Pakistan's National Assembly. Sharif has linked himself to Wahabi schools in the Gulf, as well as interfering in military affairs and the judiciary. The recent Pakistan Protection Bill is the most undemocratic piece of legislation in the history of Pakistan. For the first time in over two decades all the opposition parties are united in their opposition to Sharif's plans to set up terror courts and carry out extra-judicial killings. Now the government can try anyone in the anti terror court including its legitimate political opponents.

What is worse is that the West looks at Pakistan as a flourishing democracy, when the hard facts show a prime minister who has leaned on terrorist groups for more than 20 years. Whereas Pervez Musharraaf was tried for treason despite being a war hero of three land wars, Sharif has released two dozen hardened terrorists of the Pakistani Taliban (TTP). Astonishingly, the TTP website was launched from Punjab province earlier this year.

Ask the elite of Pakhtun society in Peshawar and Mardan what they think of the TTP and they will tell you the problem lies in the Punjab and the Sharif clan. It is high time the media and commentators in the West took a closer look at the real activities of Nawaz Sharif. What has been known to several senior British and American military commanders over the years has not been made public -- that is, why they supported Musharraf and the Pakistani Army.

The Western and NATO forces supported Pakistan's Army and Musharraf because of the speed with which they captured al-Qaeda leaders and also provided logistical support for more than 100,000 NATO troops in Afghanistan. There was a good rapport between American Generals and Pakistani Generals. Americans increased their aid to Pakistan over $5 billion and military fighter jets and weapons.

On Musharraf's watch the Pakistan Army killed or captured 17 of the top 20 men on the al-Qaeda hit list. Last month's two-week visit by current Pakistan Army Chief of Staff General Raheel Sharif to the U.S. was unprecedented. No foreign military chief in the history of the U.S. has been given such a comprehensive state visit. This again points to a lack of trust in Prime Minister Sharif. While the Pakistan Army kills terrorists in North Waziristan, its prime minister releases them in the Punjab.
Cheers

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 29 Dec 2014 21:49

Shiv,

Uncle, just like any rising power, has to get some/most of its calculations about allies and enemies correct for it to become a power. If they couldn't get their basic calculations correct, that would seriously damage its ability to be a power. it is sort of a self-proven circular logic in this. But sometimes powers make a mistake in their calculations and that costs them the power. Those who view and analyze such events are often dumbfounded and puzzled. Obviously the best thing at first is to see it as another great move, but history tells us otherwise.

Soviet invasion of A'stan was decision that in hindsight seems utterly foolish. The British decision to fight WW2 cost them the empire, the biggest in human history. TSPA going on the rampage in B'desh cost them half the country. The tribals stopped outside of Srinagar for pillaging and r'ping, and that cost TSP the ownership of Srinagar. Not too long ago, India abandoned control of the Khyber pass and that cost the Indian Civilization.

Uncle from the exit of the Soviets till 2001 never once named the Talibums as their enemy or stood by the policy of removing them. Even if they and the TSPA sheltered the worst enemy of its own. Massoud had everthing a good ally could give--he was progressive, able, reasonable, brave, anti-Talibum and anti-TSPA and anti-Soviet and anti-OBL. He had a proven track record of successful resistance. If Uncle had embraced him openly, perhaps 3000 souls need not have perished in 2001 and the 1000s of Unclestanis need have died in A'stan and Trillions could have been saved. But Uncle could not let go of its tight embrace of TSPA, and their stooge Talibums.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 29 Dec 2014 21:51

Anujan,

True.

It is not hard to understand why powers will prop up allies to do advance their interests, but it is hard to understand why powers will prop up allies that hurt their interests.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 29 Dec 2014 21:51

Altair wrote:
abhishek_sharma wrote:The Indian Express ‏@IndianExpress 5m5 minutes ago
#ZakiurRehmanLakhvi submits surety bond, to be released anytime now
http://iexp.in/GBd132818
From the safe hands of ISI into the open. Best chance for bad taliban to avenge him.

So what do you to the neighbors who swears by holy text but ignores text of dossiers. Jihadis showing their true colors.

The best of the jihadi lot has come to the conclusion that there is 'no enough evidence'. There is not much hope left in jahidis whose main job is to raise more rabid jihadis and collect doles to rein in the ones who terrorize others.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 29 Dec 2014 22:14

So what do you to the neighbors who swears by holy text but ignores text of dossiers

start w/ some of the following:
- cancel all work visas & education visas for the next 2 years
- subsidize the textile exports to specific countries that Pakistan does business with
- increase defense funding to about 2.75% of GDP
- no more cement imports etc.

Giving away something (CBMs) to Pakistan w/o getting back anything does not make sense.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 30 Dec 2014 02:37

Nirupama Menon Rao: "No real alternative to dialogue.“@NeetiNair: My @E_P_W article on #India #Pakistan relations in the age of #Modi http://www.epw.in/web-exclusives/indo-p ... tions.html …”"

One more of the execrable ex-ambassador NM Rao's tweets -- as soon as she retires she hawks the US point of view now that she is ensconced in a US-funded chair in Brown University. How do people like this rise to high positions in the MEA? Ack thoo. The article steadfastly ignores Pakistan's acts of omission in ensuring the lack of dialog, and this cretinous ex-ambassador does not find that deliberate omission in the article worthy of being called out and instead trots out the "no real alternative to dialogue" line…the same line that has failed to produce results for half a century.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 30 Dec 2014 03:23

http://www.rantpolitical.com/2014/09/19 ... e#slide_42
23 Toughest Militaries in the World

Indians are on number 4 in the world and HFTA collecting TFTA Bakistani are way down one past Chodha i.e 15.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 30 Dec 2014 03:35

For all those who are now defending jihad sethi's reasonableness these days, here is a link from TFT posted on 30 May 2009 by SSridhar (original link below does not work)

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2009_pg3_1

Najam Sethi's "Reasonable" defense of paki nuclear blackmail on India.

But a nuclear bomb is the best bargain counter for an agreement on peace and related economic arrangements that consolidate and perpetuate normal relations with perceived enemy states. In that sense the bomb is a weapon of peace, not of war. Today, the only unchanging element in Pakistan’s strategy is the perception of India as a permanent enemy. At the same time it is accepted on all hands that India cannot attack Pakistan because of the latter’s nuclear deterrence. This deterrence, however, will not be stable as long as the two countries remain daggers drawn against each other. That is why Pakistan wants the United States and its allies to persuade India to come to the negotiating table, because that is the only way forward to achieving stability in the region.

This is the same Najam Sethi that has found newfound reasonableness when it comes to India.
Just a tactical change of stance until the earliest point where the stance is no longer required.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 30 Dec 2014 05:16

http://nation.com.pk/national/30-Dec-20 ... -spy-chief

KABUL- Taliban's reclusive leader Mullah Muhammad Omar is alive and hiding in the Pakistani city of Karachi, claimed a top Afghan intelligence official, echoing a similar assessment by Western intelligence sources."There is a lot of doubt whether he is alive or not. But we are more confident that he is in Karachi," acting Afghan intelligence chief Rahmatullah Nabil was quoted as saying in the New York Times regarding Omar's whereabouts.A European official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said in the NYT report that there is a "consensus among all three branches of the Afghan security forces that Mullah Omar is alive"."Not only do they think he's alive, they say they have a good understanding of where exactly he is in Karachi," the Pakistani metropolis where some say Mullah Omar is hiding.His inner circle, made up of village mullahs who have known one another for decades, has provided the active leadership of the Taliban's many local factions."But now one man, Mullah Akhtar Muhammad Mansour, has risen to the No 2 role and become the main link to Omar, allowing him to place his loyalists up and down the ranks," Nabil said in the report.Nabil, in his assessment, saw Pakistan's security establishment driving the changes, an appraisal shared by some Western officials."Some said it was a bid for greater control over the insurgency; others saw it as the evolution of a long-running Pakistani effort to avoid the embarrassment of having Omar discovered being sheltered in their country," the report said.The report comes even as Pakistan tries to clamp down on terrorists following the Taliban attack on a Peshawar school this month that killed 148 students and their teachers.PM Sharif vowed not to show any distinction between good or bad Taliban and ‘resolved to continue the war against terrorism till the last terrorist is eliminated’.Other Afghan officials, along with some European and American counterparts, said the suggestions that Omar had died were a propaganda ploy intended to weaken Taliban morale, not a reflection of the true thinking within the Afghan government.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 30 Dec 2014 05:23

Tuvaluan wrote:For all those who are now defending jihad sethi's reasonableness these days, here is a link from TFT posted on 30 May 2009 by SSridhar (original link below does not work)

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2009_pg3_1

Tuvaluan

This one does :

Worrying over South Asia's bombs

Cheers

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 30 Dec 2014 07:20

It is easy to let Pakistanis get under one's skin, however that I believe is because of a lack of vision or end game for Pakistan. It is oft that Indians seem to be thrashing about, occasionally swatting at the nuisance.

India needs to decide on a strategic vision for Pakistan, indeed it needs to articulate a civilisational objective. Responding to imbecility from Pakistanis lowers Indians to the same level. For example I had one Pakistani eagerly tell me that his government had a file on Advani as a terrorist in his Karachi days. This fellow was formally educated and living in the west. Now regardless of Advani's antecedents, how one can believe anything from deeply corrupt, morally bankrupt Pakistani government officials is quite beyond me, but not beyond his gullibility and willing participation in yet another Pakistani hoax. (Where that evidence resides is now of course long forgotten). I laughed in his face. A pointed listing of Advani's virtues and any defense of his conduct to a Pakistani would only cheapen an Indian.

India can thus choose to indulge in never ending ripostes with Pakistan-my opinion it is a waste of time and resources. India can choose to write off Pakistan as a type of Iran or Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan and deal with its multitudinous insurgencies to keep it for ever in thrall of handouts from America-of cash, weapons and the occasional kick. India can eventually deal with mini states on its NW borders (albeit some of them as big as any state in Europe).

Or India can make a civilisational determination to decapitate the political orthodoxy in Pakistan, invalidate its pretensions and engineer its society to become Indians. This will be a large undertaking. But there are three factors in its favour. Firstly, the despicable character of the Pakistani state and institutions with the degeneracy now seeping into civil society. Pakistanis are close to breaking point-perhaps three to five years of continuing chaos, murder and mayhem will convince the most obdurate and obtuse of the failure of Jinnah's dream. Now turned into a nightmare courtesy of...'bad leaders'....'institutional failure'....or more likely a failure of ideology.

Secondly, the west will support India in fixing the Pakistan problem. Regardless of how useful it may be to them, they can not afford to have a cesspool breeding violent malcontents who, unlike the Vietnamese, will follow them home to continue the Abrahamic diaglogue.

Finally, as India's economy, technology, democracy, soft power approach a coalescing point, Pakistanis will contrast it to their own arid Pakistan, devoid of music, culture, affluence, and influence, and accept the inevitable conclusions.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 30 Dec 2014 07:44

sanjaykumar:

Secondly, the west will support India in fixing the Pakistan problem.

That is wishful thinking, sorry to say --- all evidence points to the contrary. "the west" as in the USA wishes to prop up pakistan for its own reasons, and the rest of the west is irrelevant. India has been working to stabilize afghanisthan and the "west" supports the pakis quite openly, so the above claim flies in the face of reality.

Pakis and pakistan are India's problem and India is on its own, and the pakis are not even anywhere near the top of India's problems of today. But if India is to handle pakistan, all the ignorant cr@p spouted by some of official India, like the ex-ambassadors and the mostly ignorant and horribly naive Indian public, needs to understand who they are dealing with. India becoming an awesome, earth shattering country by 2045 or some future date is just wishful thinking if we cannot get a grip on economic growth that provides the fuel to drive India's power projection at a future date.

Najam Sethi is the norm rather than the exception when it comes to duplicitous double speak, so it is not a waste of time to convince naive indians on that front….one at a time, if necessary.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 30 Dec 2014 07:52

sanjaykumar wrote:
Secondly, the west will support India in fixing the Pakistan problem. Regardless of how useful it may be to them, they can not afford to have a cesspool breeding violent malcontents who, unlike the Vietnamese, will follow them home to continue the Abrahamic diaglogue.

Finally, as India's economy, technology, democracy, soft power approach a coalescing point, Pakistanis will contrast it to their own arid Pakistan, devoid of music, culture, affluence, and influence, and accept the inevitable conclusions.

These two points are probably never going to happen. India is a humongous country in terms of population and in the near future a humongous economic/military power. Such large countries of such size have never existed before at any point of human history. What that means is, our hunger for resources will only increase as we mature into a more "developed" country. That is an inevitability. Another inevitability is one of competition among such large countries for the resources of the world, since it is not unlimited. Hence a conflict of some form is bound to happen between India and other large powers, especially Oiropean whites being the resource hoarders (recent example I can point to is Australia and NSG drama).

Given these realities, it is only logical that any country that sees itself in competition with India to keep a rabid, mad dog like Bakistan next to India for as long as possible. 3.5 fourfathers are four-fathers for a reason. We should not expect the white-west to suddenly develop a heart and believe in charity. Keeping guard on India using Bakistan is a key strategy for 3.5. I consider it a master stroke by Brishits. I bow my hat to those mass-murderers.

The last point is the same as trying to show light to a Malsi-robot. Malsi managed to wipe of thousands of native cultures, native customs without a trace in the relatively short and miserable time it has existed on planet earth. Do you think brainwashed Bakis can ever be brought back into our fold? Especially when Bakis are busy from Australia, to Africa, to Nordic countries spreading Malsi using swords and shrapnels? Why does your logic not apply there, they should have seen how "great" the west has become and change ... no?

Given the above two issues, I would say that the biggest threat for us Indians is the lack of leaders who understand real-politik. We need hard headed leaders to understand the game and grapple with the players. Instead we have dovey eyed bambis singing Aman-Ki-Tamasha bhajjans in Wagah every day.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 30 Dec 2014 08:09

Especially when Bakis are busy from Australia, to Africa, to Nordic countries spreading Malsi using swords and shrapnels? Why does your logic not apply there, they should have seen how "great" the west has become and change ... no?

Because these people are genetically and culturally crypto-Indians, they are not crypto British. In fact they were full fledged Indians 70 years ago.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Dec 2014 08:21

IMO it is wrong to say "Pakistan will do this" or "Pakistan can go that way" because "Pakistan" is not whole. It is already fragmented. No one can make all of Pakistan agree on the same thing. Time was when hostility to India was a uniting factor. That seems to have faded - especially when the biggest beneficiary of the general hostility to India, the shitistan army is itself under threat from Baluchis and Pakhtuns.

There is no longer a "United Pakistan" as seen on United nations maps.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 30 Dec 2014 10:39

A_Gupta wrote:
Aditya_V wrote: This I believe is creative History. IG was very committed to a unified Pakistan and if not Pakistani stupidy and massacres in 1971 would not have been in favour of Bangladesh.
Really, any relevant quotes to show that Mrs IG was committed to a unified Pakistan beyond lip-service?

There are many web pages regarding this, the rational for giving ZA Bhutto good deal not using the 1971 war to trade large parts of West Pakistan for POK and similarly Paki Pows. All the sources who have written at that time, She was very committed to not taking undue advantage with respect to Pakistan after the war.

Also, see how our IFS was run with the MSA's and MKB's in charge of foreign policy.

There are no contemporary sources regarding us trying to split Baluchistan in 1973-77 period, this has come from thin air 37 years later when conveniently INC is out of power. How come no claims in 2004-14 period when Biryani sessions were happening.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 30 Dec 2014 10:53

The Indian Express ‏@IndianExpress 10m10 minutes ago
JUST IN: Mumbai attack mastermind Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi detained in another case before his release, says his counsel.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 30 Dec 2014 10:57

sanjaykumar wrote: ...
Secondly, the west will support India in fixing the Pakistan problem. Regardless of how useful it may be to them, they can not afford to have a cesspool breeding violent malcontents who, unlike the Vietnamese, will follow them home to continue the Abrahamic diaglogue.

Finally, as India's economy, technology, democracy, soft power approach a coalescing point, Pakistanis will contrast it to their own arid Pakistan, devoid of music, culture, affluence, and influence, and accept the inevitable conclusions.

No they won't. They lack the core civilizational intelligence to understand what Pakistan represents. It's up to India alone.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Dec 2014 11:18

abhishek_sharma wrote:The Indian Express ‏@IndianExpress 10m10 minutes ago
JUST IN: Mumbai attack mastermind Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi detained in another case before his release, says his counsel.

This too shall pass.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 30 Dec 2014 11:51

SSridhar wrote:
abhishek_sharma wrote:The Indian Express ‏@IndianExpress 10m10 minutes ago
JUST IN: Mumbai attack mastermind Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi detained in another case before his release, says his counsel.
This too shall pass.

yes, that's what happens with a pakistan.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 30 Dec 2014 12:01

Its probably better that he is off public consciousness and Pakis stop tracking their assets. All this media attention is keeping on the ball. We need them to drop their guard and get out of the blue attacks ont hem.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 30 Dec 2014 12:19

Aditya_V wrote:Its probably better that he is off public consciousness and Pakis stop tracking their assets. All this media attention is keeping on the ball. We need them to drop their guard and get out of the blue attacks ont hem.

They will be very much aware of this possibility and there will be the same if not additional security provided to the guy. These tapes of Dawood coming out and this guy getting released is like a challenge being thrown to Modi and Doval to mock them.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Dec 2014 13:31

Ahmedis Blamed for Peshawar Attack as Israel's Agents

So, it is not only the kafir Indians whom the Urdu media has been portraying as the perpetrators of the Peshawar Army School attack, but also the Ahmedis and the Israelis. All inconvenient people are being accused of this while Fazlullah and his team admit to the killing, including citing the reason for the killing, and the Pakistani Army also goes after them !

Recently, on Mr Amir Liaquat’s morning show, Subh-e-Pakistan, a panel of clerics accused Pakistan’s peaceful and patriotic Ahmedi community of backing terrorism in the country. Deflecting blame from the real terrorists, the Taliban apologists pinned the blame of the Peshawar attack squarely on the Ahmedis, the same Ahmedis who have endured multiple attacks from the Taliban themselves. Ahmedis were labelled “Jewish agents”, blasphemers of Islam and traitors of Pakistan by cleric Syed Arif Shah Owaisi. Demonising the already ostracised Ahmedis, the panel urged Muslims to unite against and fight this “enemy” of Pakistan and Islam.

Mr Amir Liaquat nodded in agreement and led the audience in a most cheerful applause to these remarks

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 30 Dec 2014 14:00

KLNMurthy wrote:
sanjaykumar wrote: ...
Secondly, the west will support India in fixing the Pakistan problem. Regardless of how useful it may be to them, they can not afford to have a cesspool breeding violent malcontents who, unlike the Vietnamese, will follow them home to continue the Abrahamic diaglogue.

Finally, as India's economy, technology, democracy, soft power approach a coalescing point, Pakistanis will contrast it to their own arid Pakistan, devoid of music, culture, affluence, and influence, and accept the inevitable conclusions.
No they won't. They lack the core civilizational intelligence to understand what Pakistan represents. It's up to India alone.

And Indians have this 'core civilizational intelligence'? Sorry saar but you're expecting too much from PK watching, #IndiaWithPakistan trending, war fearing Hindus. How many people in today's India have the stomach for a war with Pakistan? A couple of outsourcing contract get cancelled from Massa and half of IT will be on streets asking for peace. Till today we do not seem to have any policy for dealing with Pakistan. It is almost like somebody closing his eyes & hoping that when he opens them again, the problem would have gone. There doesn't seem to be any military policy, overt or covert, no economic policy, except for exchanging dossiers & summoning envoys there is nothing else, zilch, nada.

We overrate ourselves. Way too much.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Dec 2014 14:00

Dilbu wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:Its probably better that he is off public consciousness and Pakis stop tracking their assets. All this media attention is keeping on the ball. We need them to drop their guard and get out of the blue attacks ont hem.
They will be very much aware of this possibility and there will be the same if not additional security provided to the guy. These tapes of Dawood coming out and this guy getting released is like a challenge being thrown to Modi and Doval to mock them.

I am getting the feeling that Pakis are no longer powerful enough to challenge India for the purpose of challenging India. They do it to save their own asses in order not to appear weak. With a massive crackdown (and massacre) of militants in the east, they will have a revolt in Pakjab if they crack down too hard on anti-India terrorists. In order to keep Pakjab safe they try and prove that they are supporting anti-India activities. That is the only think that they hope can unify them and that hope is crumbling.

Pakistan is no longer one nation. There is nothing that can be done by anyone in Pakistan that will have the support of most pakis.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 30 Dec 2014 15:20

SSridhar wrote:Ahmedis Blamed for Peshawar Attack as Israel's Agents

So, it is not only the kafir Indians whom the Urdu media has been portraying as the perpetrators of the Peshawar Army School attack, but also the Ahmedis and the Israelis. All inconvenient people are being accused of this while Fazlullah and his team admit to the killing, including citing the reason for the killing, and the Pakistani Army also goes after them !

Recently, on Mr Amir Liaquat’s morning show, Subh-e-Pakistan, a panel of clerics accused Pakistan’s peaceful and patriotic Ahmedi community of backing terrorism in the country. Deflecting blame from the real terrorists, the Taliban apologists pinned the blame of the Peshawar attack squarely on the Ahmedis, the same Ahmedis who have endured multiple attacks from the Taliban themselves. Ahmedis were labelled “Jewish agents”, blasphemers of Islam and traitors of Pakistan by cleric Syed Arif Shah Owaisi. Demonising the already ostracised Ahmedis, the panel urged Muslims to unite against and fight this “enemy” of Pakistan and Islam.

Mr Amir Liaquat nodded in agreement and led the audience in a most cheerful applause to these remarks

Well people pin the blame for terrorist attacks on Pakistanis, the Pakistanis who are victims of terror. SNAFU.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 30 Dec 2014 15:27

shiv wrote: Pakistan is no longer one nation. There is nothing that can be done by anyone in Pakistan that will have the support of most pakis.

Except may be an attack on Hindustan and kill us kafirs. They love beheading kafirs, raping kafir wimmens and sodomizing kafir boys.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 30 Dec 2014 15:43

The mess in Baluchistan.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... istan.html

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 30 Dec 2014 15:49

A_Gupta wrote:
Aditya_V wrote: This I believe is creative History. IG was very committed to a unified Pakistan and if not Pakistani stupidy and massacres in 1971 would not have been in favour of Bangladesh.
Really, any relevant quotes to show that Mrs IG was committed to a unified Pakistan beyond lip-service?

Apologies in advance for some OT material in my post.

All recorded insider accounts indicate that IG did her best to split Pakistan. There are published records from Sri Aurobindo ashram archives that indicate IG seeking spiritual guidance on dealing with Pukistan. The message from Sri Aurobindo ashram was that major civilizational states such as India are not mere geographical and administrative entities and have a soul that represent something unique in the world. One of the unique aspects India represents in the world consciousness is the search for Truth and insistence on multiple paths to reaching the Truth and finding harmony amongst all these paths. Sages like Sri Ramakrishna and Shridi Saibaba exemplified this in recent times. The mere existence of Pakistan is contrary to this notion and is based on an idealogy that will create disharmony in the world. The Mother of Sri Aurobindo ashram was clear that West Pakistan should be split into multiple nations after East pakistan was carved out into BD. While IG agreed to it in principle, she expressed inability to continue further due to international pressure, specifically Nixon.

Later, the Mother remarked that Pakistan will on its own split into 4 or 5 countries but did not give a timeline for it and symbolically it will be a great victory for forces of harmony and evolution in the Earth's consciousness. I long for those prophetic words to materialize in my lifetime

The Mother was very clear that given the place India occupies in spiritual destiny of the world, India-Pakistan problem was lot more important to world's evolution in subtle planes of existence (which actually materialize in our external world little later) than Arab-Israel conflicts.

Having met both Nehru and IG when they came to visit the Ashram, the Mother of Sri Aurobindo ashram remarked that Nehru had a very fuzzy mind with convoluted thought process while IG had a very clear and strong mind that is receptive to influence of Grace / Force from higher planes.

There are several interesting incidents and very prophetic sayings captured in the Mother's agenda (13 volume compilation of conversations with one sadhak). For instance where Mother says Nixon is gripped by asuric forces and he MUST go. That same day the water gate scandal happened which would soon break out and will result in impeachment of Nixon. For those interested in integral evolution theories and how the battles of material world are predestined in subtler worlds, there is lot of discussion on Hitler being controlled by Asuric entities and Churchil redeeming himself and Britain by becoming an agent of divine forces (without his consicous knowledge of it of course). There has been well recorded instances where Sri Aurobindo would say a strategy and discuss an ideal which would be word for word repeated by Churchil the following day. A famour Dutch author had captured all of this in his wonderful book - Beyond Human Species. An eye opening read for anyone who is interested in knowing the spiritual battle fought behind world war II. One would realize how Bharath played a central role in the world in the spiritual / occult plane even when materially she was an enslaved nation.

The Mother also has prophesied that China will split into 3 states with Tibet getting genuine autonomy but it will take as much as few centuries. She also talked about how humans will one day settle in Mars (this is before humans even set foot in Moon).

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 30 Dec 2014 16:08

A_Gupta wrote:http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jul/14guru.htm
quote:

Till 1977 the Indira Gandhi government actively worked for the democratic aspirations of the Baluchis and Pathans. Baluchi fighters were trained in the deserts of Rajasthan. We also provided them with financial and diplomatic assistance. With Bangladesh free, Indira Gandhi reckoned that Sind, Baluchistan and Pakhtunistan should follow.

After her electoral defeat in 1977, Vajpayee as the Janata government's foreign minister made his first misguided and woolly-headed attempt to normalize relations with Pakistan. We now remember Lahore as his first, but that is not correct. Indian support to various movements struggling for self-determination in Punjabi-dominated Pakistan was withdrawn. L K Advani was as much a comrade in arms then as he is now for he did not protest even when G M Syed's Jiye Sind movement was betrayed. He was quite pleased with being able to go to his hometown of Karachi and visit his old school.

End quote.

Right on. IG has done more for India in strategic aspects than any other PM. IG's good deeds are more like she atoning for sins of her father in a way. Accounts of RAW and IB old timers provide ample testimony to this fact. She also ensured that China wound up active support of NE insurgents by creating Tibetian insurgents. Vajpayee did not really get his Pakistan strategy right and was hoodwinked by Mushrat and we paid a heavy price with lives of thousands of our brave soldiers in Kargil. I also tend to think that if given 10 years, I hope Modi-Doval combo would meet or beat IG in this respect.

I have also read (and heard from intelligence old timers) about how farsighted she was in cultivating relations with African nations but setting up and training their intelligence departments, etc. One good read is B.Raman's Kao Boys of RAW. Later PMs have failed to capitalize on those moves and as a result we lost heavily to China in race for natural resources in Africa where we folded without even a fight to show. All the soft power and connections cultivated by IG in Africa is now wasted and need to be rebuilt Like Churchil, IG was probably great as a war time leader than a peace time leader. Same time unlike Churchil, she didn't have much respect for democracy.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Dec 2014 16:31

Altair wrote:
shiv wrote: Pakistan is no longer one nation. There is nothing that can be done by anyone in Pakistan that will have the support of most pakis.
Except may be an attack on Hindustan and kill us kafirs. They love beheading kafirs, raping kafir wimmens and sodomizing kafir boys.

This is the "traditional" uniting factor. It kept them together till 1971. After that it has been downhill mostly and the army has tried desperately to re-infuse the spirit of 1965. But it ain't workin.

I think the significance of this view of Pakistan lies in the fact that there is nothing that we in India can do that will make all Pakistanis behave in one particular way. So the frequesntly suggested ideas that "Indian should do X and Pakistan will do Y" is pointless. Different groups on Pakistan react differently to Indian actions - and if we make it easier for Pakjabis - the Baluchis and Pathans take a hit, etc..

We need to think of Pakistan as separate entities and not "award" them with unity that does not exist or even imagine that their sole focus (i.e the sole forcus of all 190 million) is India alone. Making the Paki army weak will definitely make some Pakis happy - including the TTP - even if India does it.. It's not as if the TTP will join with the Paki army and fight India. That was Hamid Gul's wet dream but it's coffee time.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 30 Dec 2014 16:37

http://www.sify.com/news/2611-mastermin ... ecjbi.html
26/11 mastermind Lakhvi detained again in Pakistan