Indian IT Industry

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 27 Dec 2014 05:27

Simple courtesy and etiquette dictates that one speak in a language that is understood by the majority if not all - those few who do not understand the lingua franca need a translator until such time that they are trained to to be able to communicate well enough in the language (whatever it may be). All business communications need to be transparent and unambiguous. Otherwise it is a disaster in the making. Usually office politics and back biting destroys team morale and impacts productivity like no other factor. If the communications are opaque, cut the time to reach total breakdown by a factor of ten.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 27 Dec 2014 07:55

Typically it all depends on the client partner or the delivery manager in the account on how well the account relationships are maintained. When they speak to a gora in a Conf call or in person they use English, that's a diktat from most companies and all of them follow. The problem is when you have an Indian origin client employee our guys treat them as peers and that's when the heart ache starts.

Theeran · Post by **Theeran** » 27 Dec 2014 09:54

I had an experience where a contractor would come up to my cube and chat in Tamil. I did not have a problem with that. Conf call and meetings were strictly in English.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 27 Dec 2014 20:30

Zynda wrote:
KJo wrote: I suffered a bad environment at PeechaKaro Co when a horde of TCS Tamils from Chennai (mostly Christian) came in and behaved like school kids yammering in Tamil all the time and loudly too. My wife just began working at a large healthcare co which has HCL Tech and that is a Telugu strong hold. She's having trouble demanding her lead person speak to everybody in English so she can understand. He insists in talking to everyone in Telugu. My wife had to raise halla and he finally relented. Most of the other ladies there are Telugu but some aren't.
One of my previous employer had hired a bunch of contractors from Quebec. There were about 15 in total plus we had a bunch of folks from Brazil as well at our facility since they were our client. The Brazilians spoke in Portugese among themselves (even in meetings when we were there) and the Quebec folks spoke in loud French among themselves. Of course, both the Brazilians & Quebec folks used to speak to us in English but when among themselves it was always in their native language.

Similarly, one of our client was a S Korean firm and their employees at our facility always spoke in Korean among themselves.

Is there any clause that contractors on-site should speak only English? As long as they are conveying work related information to client (your wife) in a lucid & understandable format i.e. English, I fail to see why they should be forebade to speak in their native language among themselves.

Zynda, just because Koreans, Brazilians or Pakis may have piss poor behavior, it doesn't make it justifiable for Indians to be the same way. Why give examples of other people who also don't know how to behave themselves? These conversations were not private conversations in a cafe during lunch. They were work related in groups. My wife could make out from the keywords that they were about the project. Same experience I had with TCS people from Chennai. There were 2 other Indians, myself and a Telugu fellow. TCS unprofessional behavior reflected on us as well, just Jihadi behavior reflects on all Muslims.

Before this, I used to be an advocate of Indian off shoring companies, and after this experience, I found it hard to support this. Most of these guys just don't know how to behave professionally. There were only 2-3 who were actually good and 1 was outstanding. Others were passengers who just were passing time until their "promotion" or "next assignment". But their lead was good at politics and kissing up to the manager and also lying about stuff (I still have an email trail with me showing how he changed my project timelines and emailed the manager without adding me). Even after this, I am connected with him on FB and Linkedin.

I worked at a well known investment management company infested by Cheenis. Even the COO of that time was a cheeni. He would come and talk to everybody in cheeni bhaasha. The rest of us including the goras felt excluded. Very poor behavior. This isn't Peching.

Anyway, we have discussed this a lot in the past, so let's move on from this side-track.

negi · Post by **negi** » 29 Dec 2014 17:27

I think Indians can be at times too harsh on their own countrymen in order to fit in or for various other reasons, we do not have a common link language here in India too , people in Kolkata talk to each other in Bangla so rest of us obviously have to give them that space same is the case with Tamils in TN I frankly neither find it offending nor unprofessional. The definition of professionalism, courtesy and all such big words in the western world do not fit us we are simply too diverse for that now if one wishes to fit in then obviously he/she can take that extra step but at least be honest and not look down upon those who choose to be the way they are , remember guys this is not too different from that gora who laughs and makes fun of those of you who still wash your behinds in the morning with your hand or eat with hands at home. The notion that a group speaking in their native tongue is making fun of us or saying bad things comes from west , ever wondered why ? It is because they have a chip on their shoulders.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 29 Dec 2014 21:36

A posting on a confession site says that the jernails of TCS has been fudging figures for some time. Panic has set in now and this layoff thing is an attempt to get back on track.
With some salt the following may be ingested by the interested until some real news comes in
http://itconfessions.in/tcs-confessions ... ayoff2014/

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 29 Dec 2014 21:38

KJo wrote:Ghazis, on popular demand onleee, I have put the Holy R Qitaab in my dropbox.

It is only 5 MB.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/459 ... amming.pdf

Download and I will keep it there for a few days.

Looks like a missed window of opportunity for me

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 29 Dec 2014 21:47

kenop wrote:
KJo wrote:Ghazis, on popular demand onleee, I have put the Holy R Qitaab in my dropbox.

It is only 5 MB.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/459 ... amming.pdf

Download and I will keep it there for a few days.
Looks like a missed window of opportunity for me

Found elsewhere

Theeran · Post by **Theeran** » 29 Dec 2014 22:20

Hi kenop can you please msg me a link? Thank you.

negi · Post by **negi** » 30 Dec 2014 00:58

Lay offs are not bad as such, this year quite a few major companies laid off people , if someone is good enough he/she will find a job, now those who got promoted out of turn and were mostly into pay bands well above their grade and were mostly giving sermons and managing people for work and now find themselves to be searching for a job it is a test of their abilities; all in all the fittest survive what is so bad in that ? That is what life is about.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 30 Dec 2014 05:27

negi wrote:I think Indians can be at times too harsh on their own countrymen in order to fit in or for various other reasons, we do not have a common link language here in India too , people in Kolkata talk to each other in Bangla so rest of us obviously have to give them that space same is the case with Tamils in TN I frankly neither find it offending nor unprofessional. The definition of professionalism, courtesy and all such big words in the western world.

Negi: We are talking about people ons-ite in the US where almost all (Spanish being the exception) business communication is in English. If I were the manager/leader/<whatever fancy designations people have now a days in IT> ( tangentially - WT hey is RMG any way?) and this is brought to my notice, I would reprimand anybody engaging in such behaviour. It would be an environment that can engender great amount of unhealthy groupism. People on a project should communicate internally in the same language they communicate with the project end-users. Would you want to be on a project developing nucs/ICBMs where the specs are discussed by a group of people in a language some members of the group would not understand? I would not want to be anywhere near where they are doing field trials.

It would be like "stop not hang him".

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Dec 2014 11:05

common guys.. the only common link language now exists is English... there is no doubt about it. If you all reading this, then it validates what I say. Of course, there are language fanatics who will jump in to say Hindi/Sanskrit/Tamil/Telugu etc. are the link! Every language is a link to another.. when nothing is in common, people resort to English.

Sadly, Hindi is not that common. Still, most of us accept the constitution of India and respect what it says about Hindi. Don't forget what is written in the constitution on English too.

People should only care, if we display indic behavior.. ignore the language, and it is okay to communicate in English.

negi · Post by **negi** » 30 Dec 2014 12:01

Matrimc it is not that people talk in their mother tongue on conference calls I was talking about casual chit chat among people , it is obvious that officially one will communicate in whatever is the language of choice of that country/company. The discussion started with the claim that some Indians talk to each other in their regional language of course they do and as long as they are not doing that during a formal conversation or conference it is ok . Goras are particular about usage of english in the office premises for all purposes because they have trust issues , we need not share their sensitivity on this issue for it originates from lack of trust .

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 30 Dec 2014 21:25

Theeran wrote:Hi kenop can you please msg me a link? Thank you.

my cawntakt
brfid DAWT brf c/o chacha

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 01 Jan 2015 14:17

TCS employees to file complaint against ‘mass sacking’
I don't expect things to change on the ground, but if these really take up the matter with the Labour Commissioner it may bring out the various legal provisions regarding employment in IT companies. I mean, what statutes/laws they are to follow, what are the benefits which "legally" can be claimed by an IT employee etc. Right now, I don't think any IT Company Employee has even thought about all this. This is a big difference I see when compared with other business units like National Banks. Even a clerk out there knows the perks and rights they have as an employee.

Virendra · Post by **Virendra** » 01 Jan 2015 15:01

matrimc wrote:( tangentially - WT hey is RMG any way?)

TCS terminology - Resource Management Group.
They swing around the Human Resource between bench and various projects.
They're the link between employee on bench/current-project and the next project; the link between demand and supply.

ritesh · Post by **ritesh** » 01 Jan 2015 17:05

Sachin wrote:TCS employees to file complaint against ‘mass sacking’
I don't expect things to change on the ground, but if these really take up the matter with the Labour Commissioner it may bring out the various legal provisions regarding employment in IT companies. I mean, what statutes/laws they are to follow, what are the benefits which "legally" can be claimed by an IT employee etc. Right now, I don't think any IT Company Employee has even thought about all this. This is a big difference I see when compared with other business units like National Banks. Even a clerk out there knows the perks and rights they have as an employee.

Already news was out that a third of the workforce was to be targeted, now this confirmation of sorts.

These guys are being paid through the nose but what you get is nothing more than mediocre support.
Can you imagine, for middle mgmt level (IT Support)the package is 11Lacs p.a.?

Virendra · Post by **Virendra** » 02 Jan 2015 10:01

Its a muddled picture now. Some say the firing is mostly suspended due to negative publicity and other impact.
Others saying this is just a silencing trick and firing will go on at a quiet and slow pace.
By the way, target number to achieve was never beyond 20-25k. Most of the theories we've heard inside are ranging from 10k to 25k.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 02 Jan 2015 20:58

So when it comes to self even the IT folks are no better than the leftist/socialists whom they mock.

This is the most unstable field for long term employment and folks who are into their late 40s and 50s as individual contributors have been suffering for long due to all the outsourcing from the US. Now it has come a full circle...or maybe not yet.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 02 Jan 2015 21:20

Bade wrote:So when it comes to self even the IT folks are no better than the leftist/socialists whom they mock.

This is the most unstable field for long term employment and folks who are into their late 40s and 50s as individual contributors have been suffering for long due to all the outsourcing from the US. Now it has come a full circle...or maybe not yet.

I don't understand the mentality of entitlement of many IT folks in India. They jumped on the capitalist bandwagon and enjoyed all the perks and toys associated with it (new car, new house, cell phone every year

, roz McDonalds mein khaana, Coach bags), and when it comes to the downsides, they act shocked. What? Layoff?? How dare you?? I was not even notified!!!

We in the US have been living this life for years. In fact I suffered one in 2014. For no fault of mine, as even my EVP told me. Such is life. Really hard to feel sorry for the whiners.

In the past years, I have had to listen to my friends in India jeer at me that they will "have your lunch" when outsourcing to India was booming and nothing can stop it. Talk about arrogance. That's why I am one of the few Indians on this board who seems to understand what an average American feels when he loses his job to some 22 year old incompetent inexperienced person from India just because the CEO of the company was greedy and wanted to pad his profits.

All this said, why is TCS laying people off? Their scam of flooding US companies with useless "techies" been found out?

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 02 Jan 2015 21:28

Bade wrote:So when it comes to self even the IT folks are no better than the leftist/socialists whom they mock.

As I mentioned earlier (in the same thread) trade unions etc. did not get any mileage in IT companies perhaps because of the feeling that they are not required, and life is all fine and dandy. I would certainly like to see what TCS ex-employees plan to discuss with the Labour Commissioner. All said and done, the leftists in Kerala perhaps may find a 1000s of ardent followers in Bengaluru. And then the Kannur commie gang can come with their crude bombs, sickles and hammer et. al

. Life would indeed complete the big cycle if CPI(M) wins a few seats in Bengaluru thanks to IT labour unions.

This is the most unstable field for long term employment and folks who are into their late 40s and 50s as individual contributors have been suffering for long due to all the outsourcing from the US.

I don't think it is the individual contributors who are getting laid off. It would be the mid-managers, "architects" kind of persons. Yes, there age bracket may be 35+. If I get it right, it is very rare for such companies to have people in "individual contributor" role after 7+ years of experience.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 02 Jan 2015 21:56

KJo saar, these events can create a jolt on any one's life, especially without a cushion like unemployment benefits like in US. And buying houses etc are part of folks in India getting a taste of better life. People reacting to such hard events are but natural.
In fact entitlement mentality exists everywhere including US. Folks in US think that products and markets are global but their jobs are local. When it comes to free market capitalism, Americans are as much whiners as anyone else.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 02 Jan 2015 22:09

Sachin, the very fact they are thinking of talking to labour commissioners indicates what I said. Cribbing about socialism is only when others are accused of same, why not apply it for themselves. I would call these TCS employees commies of the worst kind...had it good for long and should have saved no, for the bad times...rather than running to the govt for help.

Unemployment benefits in the US is for 6 months only.

Individual contributors in the US in the older age group have been deeply impacted by the availability of cheap replacements from India. That was my point. There is no management track for the vast majority anywhere in the world.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 02 Jan 2015 22:21

saravana wrote:KJo saar, these events can create a jolt on any one's life, especially without a cushion like unemployment benefits like in US. And buying houses etc are part of folks in India getting a taste of better life. People reacting to such hard events are but natural.
In fact entitlement mentality exists everywhere including US. Folks in US think that products and markets are global but their jobs are local. When it comes to free market capitalism, Americans are as much whiners as anyone else.

Saar, I got $500 a week. And Chacha Sam taxes that too.

Unemployment benefits is a myth for middle class people like Indians in the US. We don't live paycheck to paycheck and our investments in our kids are huge. Unemp does not help much. Most of us don't have family here for support like people in India have. We have to pay our own credit card bills, car payments and mortgage.

Of course, it creates a jolt, no denying that. What took me aback was the unabashed arrogance that I faced from my own friends. Another surprising thing I noticed was the expectation that companies in India have to cater to job requirements of people in India ahead of people in the US. Very paki attitude of hating the US but enjoying the benefits that accrue from the US. People can whine all they want and it, and people in the US whine as well, but whether it is justified or not is a separate discussion.

India has opted to drive on the fast lanes. With that comes the occasional crashes. I didn't make the rules, but we all have to live by them. No one has it both ways.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 02 Jan 2015 22:23

Bade wrote:Sachin, the very fact they are thinking of talking to labour commissioners indicates what I said. Cribbing about socialism is only when others are accused of same, why not apply it for themselves. I would call these TCS employees commies of the worst kind...had it good for long and should have saved no, for the bad times...

What is the harm in meeting the Labour Commissioner to discuss the various legal points, and options? I personally feel that TCS (and any other IT company) would have covered its tracks by checking all the labour acts, policies in place before taking a decision to lay-off people. But if such a discussion indeed takes place, it would help all in the industry know where they stand with regards to continued employment in such companies. So far it was believed that a job in the so-called "IT Major/Colonel/Brigadier" is like a PSU bank job with a much better pay till they retire. Now that is going for a change, so if the legal provisions gets laid out thread bare it would help every one out there.

rather than running to the govt for help.

What is the harm in reaching out to the government? At least they have paid taxes (in many cases deducted at source). All said and done the erst-while "life in cocoon" which many IT employee had, perhaps would go for a change in next 5 years. That is what I feel.

Individual contributors in the US in the older age group have been deeply impacted by the availability of cheap replacements from India.

Agreed. I have personally seen folks with 15-20 years service in the same company getting replaced after the maintenance contract has been taken over by an Indian company. But what I could understand is that the European countries do have some sort of a social security scheme which provides for basic needs. And their severance packages also seem to be on the higher side. The same thing is also slowly happening in India, when people who put in more years in the company (and get paid higher) is getting replaced by more cheaply available younger labour force. How ever social security schemes and higher severance packages, I feel do not exist in India.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 02 Jan 2015 22:39

KJo wrote: *snip*
Another surprising thing I noticed was the expectation that companies in India have to cater to job requirements of people in India ahead of people in the US. Very paki attitude of hating the US but enjoying the benefits that accrue from the US. People can whine all they want and it, and people in the US whine as well, but whether it is justified or not is a separate discussion.
*snip*

I think this is the crux of it: Are jobs commodified like products and services? If products can move between boundaries subject to trade laws and agreements, why are jobs treated separately? Both involve livelihood of people in different countries. I don't think every person in US who works with Coca-Cola loves India but profit from the sales here. The same with IT guys benefiting from US though am not sure how many people in India hate the US. Though I agree with you that it is not easy in the US as well, a job loss is a job loss where it is. And since it is a zero sum game, people who lost their jobs to Indians would be understandably pissed off. It is a painful thing overall.
am not going to display of arrogance because I have seen it both ways, typically it is the guys who have low social graces who do this way.

ritesh · Post by **ritesh** » 02 Jan 2015 22:43

TCS CEO N Chandrasekaran earns Rs 18.68 crore in FY 2014
In this kind of environment, can they justify such obscene package anymore?

According to TCS' annual report, Chandrasekaran, who became chief executive and Managing Director in October 2009, earned a commission of Rs 15 crore, benefits, perquisites & allowances of Rs 2.38 crore and a salary of Rs 1.3 crore for the year ended March 31, 2014.

It added a net 9,751 employees in the fourth quarter and a net 24,268 employees during the entire financial year to take its head count to 300,464.

So the oldies were hand holding rookies, and now they are getting purged...

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 02 Jan 2015 23:07

saravana wrote: I think this is the crux of it: Are jobs commodified like products and services? If products can move between boundaries subject to trade laws and agreements, why are jobs treated separately? Both involve livelihood of people in different countries. I don't think every person in US who works with Coca-Cola loves India but profit from the sales here. The same with IT guys benefiting from US though am not sure how many people in India hate the US. Though I agree with you that it is not easy in the US as well, a job loss is a job loss where it is. And since it is a zero sum game, people who lost their jobs to Indians would be understandably pissed off. It is a painful thing overall.
am not going to display of arrogance because I have seen it both ways, typically it is the guys who have low social graces who do this way.

My point is that I have seen many IT people in India take in jobs from the US to India, but seem shocked when jobs leave India for the very same reason that they came to India in the first place. The reason is simple, cheap labor. I think India has not made good progress moving from a cheap labor destination, into developing into a true IT power with new products and direction. It's mostly doing backend work that the US hands out (with some exceptions). How else can one justify INFY and TCS going "we will hire 25000 people this year!" every year?

Indian IT people hating the US is slightly different, they seem to think that they are pulling a fast one on the US/Americans. "ha ha we stole all your jobs!" kind of mindset. This is very dangerous as we now see. One TCS fellow would gleefully tell me how some groups are trying to get social security that they pay to be refunded back. Many work in US companies, but are thrilled when the US has some bad economic news. Another chance to gloat about India shining.

I am not sure I agree with the last line, I have seen people across different strata behave this way. I think it is more prevalent in the middle to upper middle class who had a decent life, but now think they can compete with the toys that people in the West have. The lower middle class people seem to be more thankful to have a better life, but this is just my impression.

All in all, maybe people are just naive, not cunning. They think they can get something for nothing.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 02 Jan 2015 23:16

^^ I meant lack of social skills and not social strata. But the ones you give as examples don't fit into this mold, i meant arrogance technical skills wise. The ones you mentioned are being dicks, which is a different issue.
I would like to think that there is some product development expertise out there but no ground breaking products from Indian company as yet.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 02 Jan 2015 23:41

It is a myth that all the big U.S. companies are crawling with innovators and geniuses. The truth is that a lot of money is thrown at startups - most actulkay disappear without trace. Only a few - 5% - make it to five year mark. Then some more consolidation takes place. Some shut doors. Some are bought out for pennies on the dollar by the dominant players. End of the second round only 5% of the 5% are left whose products might be a small bolt in the chain. If they become very good at it, the bigger ones buy them out to fill any gaps in their product line. It is the scale that matters and the ability to have people - individuals contributors - not contributing to the immediate quarterly results in large enough numbers is what matters. A krage number if researchers are oriented by the academia. The unemployment rate for researchers in engg. followed by the basic sciences is the lowest, even today. They have better job security than most, but not as much as tenured professors or medical doctors. The price they pay s of course lower salaries but they live for their work. They can have a comfortable if not flashy life.
In India, there is very little chance for risk taking, unless either one is in the 99% in research or one has family money.

Us system feeds on itself. Innovation comes only when somebody has eaten a nice big lunch and sitting in their cube and thinking while dozing off for a few minutes at a time. Americans can afford a large number of bright people doing nothing - at least for now.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 02 Jan 2015 23:57

saravana wrote:^^ I meant lack of social skills and not social strata. But the ones you give as examples don't fit into this mold, i meant arrogance technical skills wise. The ones you mentioned are being dicks, which is a different issue.
I would like to think that there is some product development expertise out there but no ground breaking products from Indian company as yet.

okay, in that case we are in perfect agreement.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 Jan 2015 00:02

Do the India IT majors have a R&D lab. Esp. for 100,000 person type companies there should be at least 10% in R&D right. I know India Pharma have substantial R&D presence.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 03 Jan 2015 00:04

matrimc wrote:It is a myth that all the big U.S. companies are crawling with innovators and geniuses. The truth is that a lot of money is thrown at startups - most actulkay disappear without trace. Only a few - 5% - make it to five year mark. Then some more consolidation takes place. Some shut doors. Some are bought out for own use on the dollar by the dominant players. End of the second round only 5% of the 5% are left whose products might be a small bolt in the chain. If they become very good at it, the bigger ones buy them out to fill any gaps in their product line. It is the scale that matters and the ability to have people - individuals contributors - not contributing to the immediate quarterly results in large enough numbers is what matters. A krage number if researchers are oriented by the academia. The unemployment rate for researchers in engg. followed by the basic sciences is the lowest, even today. They have better job security than most, but not as much as tenured professors or medical doctors. The price they pay s of course lower salaries but they live for their work. They can have a comfortable if not flashy life.
In India, there is very little chance for risk taking, unless either one is in the 99% in research or one has family money.

Us system feeds on itself. Innovation comes only when somebody has eaten a nice big lunch and sitting in their cube and thinking while dozing off for a few minutes at a time. Americans can afford a large number of bright people doing nothing - at least for now.

This argument reminds me of Muslims

ing about "all Muslims are terrorists" (very false) vs "all terrorists are Muslims" (mostly true). No, US companies are not crawling with innovators and geniuses. This can never happen. But most of the inventions that are of use to mankind happen in the US. Maybe there are some Euro countries where they do as well.
My problem is that almost no innovation happens in India. We are just bottom feeders. Some people get angry when the word "coolies" are used, but the analogy is not much off. We had a 10+ year free period where money was coming in but we failed to see the future. Worse, we drowned in our own arrogance of infallibility that this gravy-train would run forever. And I can see why, we Indians by nature are not risk takers. And the reason is our every day life is difficult so risk taking is a luxury. I hope there comes a day when we make our own next generation software products that Americans and Euros are lining up to buy. Instead of "Hyderabad boy creates $35 tablet!" type of faux achievements. Mangalyaan and Chandrayaan are amazing achievements - something along those lines.

Theo, I am not sure, but my guess is there is no R&D. Reason I think is with easy money coming in, why bother on taking risk?

dsreedhar · Post by **dsreedhar** » 03 Jan 2015 00:18

The industry is due for some correction. It was fast money and not sustainable. It is ridiculous that freshers with barely 6 months experience but fake claims of 5+ years experience and working as contractors and making ton load of money ($$) and always on the move hopping from company to company in hunt for lush green pastures. Not much work ethics and responsibility of work. It has been about making a quick buck. Mostly it is the 10% that really work their a** off and rest free riders. There is much abuse of the system. This happened for way too long.
Now outsourcing to India is becoming expensive. Not any more an inexpensive source of labor. Everyone in the industry seeks big dollars. So eventually the industry moves to other less expensive sources in the world.

There is a big imbalance in the IT discipline vs the rest. It is time to set that right before we lose a generation of graduates to lower order IT work. Now all these resources need to be absorbed and work for the IT infrastructure and adoption in India on a wide scale. It is a huge market. May not be as remunerative as working for the US industry and earning dollars.

dsreedhar · Post by **dsreedhar** » 03 Jan 2015 00:39

The IT industry has done a lot of good to India. It has brought in the money. Other positives are a more confident generation and increased appetite of risk taking which led to rise of entrepreneurship.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 03 Jan 2015 03:13

I head Product Management for the US clients of my employer which is a largish MNC. We do development in Belarus. Lots of hot ladies with sexy accents doing development.

The question is should we move development away from Belarus and to Bangalore where we have some people in a local office?

Hmmm. What should I do...? Decisions...

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 03 Jan 2015 05:24

I've been a part of both world's, been an independent contractor for a decade in the US and now in one of Indian SP. India still has a lot of mojo left.The markets are changing so does the companies.

There are a lot of R&D that happens in Indian service providers. Almost all of these companies have industry vertical labs and software specific labs. Sure they don't "invent" products per se but they do what their client wants in qnu cutting edge tech. If a client of ours have money to spend in stores modernization using IOT or want to build a model for email marketing we go ahead and build them out of these labs. Like our sales head says we are not in the business of making products, what we offer is solutions. Not that we haven't build products but that's not our mainstay. So comparing a company like Cisco to Infy is comparing apples to oranges. We are still good in what we do, who else in the world can give a comprehensive development, support and operations as a single deal?? Just us or MNC's who have operations in India. These large ITO deals are few and far between now as most companies are already in bed with an outsourcing company but at least twice or thrice a year you get a mega deal like this. It may not be cool to be in the trenches doing shitty work in 90's era mainframe but there is still money left. For all this talk on innovation, we are still leaders in enterprise solutions combining software, firmware and hardware. Cloud has thrown in some challenges along with SaaS but there are a lot of home grown companies like Zoho , Freshdesk that are doing well both in India and abroad.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 03 Jan 2015 06:27

Javee and Theo: I know head of one big IT major's research division. He/she is a very intelligent person but has nowhere near the training of even one tenth (heck make it even one hundredth - M$ headcount is ~30K vs. TCS 300K, and SAS is about 5K and the SAS leads almost always the "best companies to work for" list) in size cos. in the US. There are limits and there are limits.

PS: Cisco is not a nimble company any more than Infy. They are same same. It was an innovator at a different time and in a different place.

PPS: To give an exemplary anecdote, I know one person of a married couple who started a competitor of chacha, blew 30 million khota sikka in about three years. They had 1 billion pages in their index where as chacha has 100 billion pages. The startup folded in less than a year. One of the couple is back to he/she was working a high position - chacha

- before starting their competing company.

How many people can leave TCS, start a competing company, fail and come back to TCS? Empirically speaking none. Theoretically it would be a small number. What I heard several years back (over scotch and wine lunch

) is that Chandra is on a path to get rid of everybody older than him in TCS management which gels (that is as an Indian as any random mgmt. speak can get) with what is taking place today.

TIFIW.

Rajesh_MR · Post by **Rajesh_MR** » 03 Jan 2015 08:34

^^^MS has more than 100K people on the rolls. Thats not including contractors

ritesh · Post by **ritesh** » 03 Jan 2015 09:34

Some more:

protest-mounts-against-layoffs

The Forum for IT Employees (FITE) spearheading the protest “We are against TCS LayOffs’ in the social media besides organising protests on the ground against ‘involuntary attrition’ of IT employees has extended its solidarity to the employees of the TCS campus at Infopark, who have been handed out pink slips.

In fact, the 25,000-35,000 job cuts being speculated accounts for 10 per cent of our workforce. Why would we do that when we are on track to hire 55,000 new hands, including 35,000 from campuses,” she said.