Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-2014)

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 10 Jan 2015 08:55

SoniaG must be weeping, and MMS losing sleep over the injustices that senile, sychophantic sh1thead Aiyar is referring to.

Theek Hai

Added later: Tuvaluan is right, I just realised this is the Islamophobia thread... sorry for the OT and let's take this elsewhere guys.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 10 Jan 2015 09:02

http://muslimmatters.org/2015/01/09/get ... ndemn-app/

This is the response of the "moderate muslim" aholes to the questions being asked of their "lovely and wonderful" faith. Apparently, all the non muslims want them to do is mouth condemnation of terrorist acts you see. Because, after every violent terrorist act committed by people who quote the Quran, "moderate muslims" mouthing condemnation proves undeniably to non muslims that Islam is all about peace and love and fluffy bunny rabbits.

And non-Muslims no longer need to wonder whether 1.6 billion Muslims around the world feel the guilt and sincerely apologize for that latest reprehensible crime some idiot carried out while shouting “Allahu Akbar!”

The fact that such "idiots who carry out reprehensible crimes in the name of Islam" are far too common and use the very texts of their religion to justify their action does not enter the picture, because these people only shout "allahu akbar" but are not real muslims (TM) that ooze peace and love and can thus be easily discerned by non muslims as the genuine article.

Added later: the "moderate muslim" twat who wrote that app pretends to be a skeptic and writes sh!t like this:- only difference between this mofo who provides rhetorical cover to the violent muslims and the ones who actually take up the gun and commit the acts is that he provides excuses for why violent muslims in Islam are none of his problem because you see, there is not much difference between Islam and jainism and fulani tribalism.

http://muslimmatters.org/2014/11/03/wha ... in-common/

Islam, of course, is not the only illiberal thought system on the market. How about classical Confucianism, historical Jainism, traditional Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox Christianity, Sub-Saharan Fulani Tribal code, or any of the other countless non-liberal, non-modernist moral philosophical outlooks?

Of course, this devious turd fails to explain why jains, catholics, and fulani tribals are not going around killing cartoonists and critics of their religions today. These "moderate muslim" mofos who provide rhetorical cover to the violent jihadis are part of the problem, and they are not poor, uneducated and discriminated against, but like the paki elite, they live the good life while cheering on the regressiveness in their religion.

The comment section is illuminating -- this "moderate muslim" ahole is just another jihadi. Note how the responses of John howard are completed hidden from view, so that only the views of this jerk and his minions are seen:
http://muslimmatters.org/2014/11/03/wha ... /#comments

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 10 Jan 2015 09:08

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 10 Jan 2015 09:16

What and where is that? UK it seems but where?
Pls always give some description

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 10 Jan 2015 09:43

The day all these so-called "moderate muslims" start to talk about reforming Islam to shrink the space for violent people in their midst, we can all start to believe that these "moderate muslim" aholes are doing something other than provide rhetorical cover to all the violent jihadis in their midst, by simultaneously disavowing these jihadis as "not true muslims" and then coming up with some bullsh!t about how "Islam is wonderful and nonviolent". Absolute falsehoods that are contradicted by the brutality of islamic societies and the violence inherent in islamic law, all based on the Quran and islamic religious texts that are clearly taken very very seriously by a lot of practising muslims.

Check out this video on arab TV channels spreading hate, not that it should surprise anyone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjNBsvwcAoQ

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Jan 2015 09:50

gandharva wrote:

I like the psyops behind the video but there is a problem. There is more than one guy in his shirtsleeves and most people have only light warm clothing and arms are exposed. In January I think that would be unlikely

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Jan 2015 10:08

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 10 Jan 2015 10:32

Mumbai police block over 650 controversial Charlie Hebdo posts on social media
http://www.firstpost.com/world/mumbai-p ... 38539.html

Shame shame

This is fully understandable in a Jihadi nation like Saudi Barbaria where they block anything that's other than Islam. In a great country like India where the nations motto of "Satyameva Jayate" or Truth alone triumphs is being buried to support Jihadi murderers of Charlie Hebdo.

We have already so much censorship which prevents one from even discussing who is Mohammed and above that the Police from a so called Hindu nation from a state ruled by Hindu government blocking cartoons?

Utter shame..

No wonder the number of Jihadis are going up day by day..The tolerance to Jihadi activities is provided by the state and the government themselves. The more you tolerate Jihadi activities, expect more Jihadis to do damage to the people. Its high time to end all these nonsense of support to Jihadi activities and utilize all options to expose Jihadi terrorists expose their supporters and sympathizers and go against them..until its fully finished from the world..It may take 50 or 500 years but there cannot be any going backward. Only forward and forward until the goal is achieved.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 10 Jan 2015 10:39

uddu, The first amendment to the Indian constitution makes it a criminal offense to hurt religious sentiments, so the police are just enforcing a bad law. You can thank the cretinous self-serving mofo Nehru for this first amendment to the constitution -- he is singlehandedly responsible for this. and Nehru did this against the advice of Babasaheb Ambedkar and Shyama Prasad Mookerjee. What a great guy, this Nehru -- his gifts to Indians keep on giving long after the turd kicked it.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 10 Jan 2015 11:13

There are many things to tell. Take the instance when we talk about religious sentiments, then why is that the use of loudspeakers not banned that say Lá iláha illallah five times over loudspeaker. Is that not offensive to all other religions in India? Then why is it not banned?

Those who dont know what Lá iláha illallah means
http://www.iqrasense.com/allah/the-impo ... lallh.html
Lá iláha illallah is the belief in the divine nature (referred to as “uloohiyyah”), meaning believing that Allah is the only one to whom people should devote their words and actions of worship. None therefore should be worshipped but Him.

These things clearly shows that the hurting religious sentiments is used against all communities other than Islam. Even the use of loudspeakers is a new invention which got invented in 1925 by two Christians Edward W. Kellogg and Chester W. Rice. then why is it used in religious context and allowed to be used in religious context?

hurting religious sentiments itself is a stupid thing. What about people who dont have religion? Say Atheist Hindu (Atheism is also a part of Hinduism

and only Hinduism..no one else can claim it) say there exist no god and only Dharma. Then it becomes hurting religious hurting for some. Is it not hurting the religious belief of the Atheist if you say god is great?

Hope Modi government removes such things from Indian constitution that's against the people and totally against India's motto of Satyameva Jayate. Let Truth alone Triumph. Nothing else.

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Jan 2015 11:43

The brutality that the overwhelmingly Mohammadden “Seleka” coalition unleashed on the Non-Mohammadden animist and Christist people of the Central African Republic has been returned by the original victims with redoubled ferocity to the perpetrators. Al Jazeera says that the UN has found that the Non-Mohammadden “anti-Balaka” animist and Christist militia’s have reportedly driven all Mohammaddens out of CAR:

UN: Muslims ethnically cleansed in CAR : UN report says Christian militias engaged in ethnic cleansing of Muslims in ongoing Central African Republic civil war.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 10 Jan 2015 11:52

uddu, this is OT, but would like to point out that Modi (or any) government with popular mandate cannot do all that unless there is a popular movement to revoke such articles from the constitution, and you are unlikely to find that in India today, given how religious fundamentalists of all stripes will oppose removal of that article given the atmosphere of competitive intolerance. The public has to be more enlightened before such articles are removed from the constitution.

This holds true for islamic countries with sharia law too -- but if they want to revel in their regressive laws that is not the problem of liberal democracies, except when these regressive barbarians move to such democracies and insist on foisting their illiberalism on the rest of the population while exploiting the very liberal laws that allowed them into such democracies in the first place.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 10 Jan 2015 12:31

May be those killed are black Africans that is why there has been hardly any coverage of this:

2,000 Killed by Boko Haram in Nigeria Town, Say Reports

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 10 Jan 2015 16:54

^^ Why `may be` ?

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Jan 2015 17:16

Mohammadden cleric Abu Hamza jailed for life by the US for indulging in Islamic Terrorism:

Abu Hamza jailed for life: Radical preacher told he will die behind bars after being sentenced for terror offences

This is the same Mohammadden cleric who exulted about the death of a Hindu in the Space Shuttle Columbia accident and said Hindu’s were part of a “trinity of evil against Islam”. The Hindu being referred to was Kalpana Chawla.

His grotesque comment follows:

“The Muslim people see these pilots as criminals. By going into space they would have sharpened the accuracy of their bombs through satellites. These missions would increase the number of satellites for military purposes. It would increase the slavery of governance of other countries by America. It is a punishment from God. Muslims see it that way. It is a trinity of evil because it carried Americans, an Israeli and a Hindu, a trinity of evil against Islam”

Above comment from a 2003 article that appeared in the UK's Guardian newspaper:

Astronauts were 'trinity of evil', says banned cleric

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 10 Jan 2015 17:27

Rupert Murdoch claims Muslims must 'recognise and destroy growing jihadist cancer' or 'be held responsible'

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 10 Jan 2015 20:06

Maher on Muslims: "When there’s this many bad apples, something wrong with the orchard.” http://thebea.st/1xOXcYv

Lol. This guy's good, man.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 10 Jan 2015 20:07

Hari Seldon wrote:Maher on Muslims: "When there’s this many bad apples, something wrong with the orchard.” http://thebea.st/1xOXcYv

Lol. This guy's good, man.

I am amazed he isn't on the "list".

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 10 Jan 2015 20:10

http://67-tardis-street.tumblr.com/post ... -followers

A word from the French to the "liberal" and "moderate muslim" twats who provide excuses for islamist violence, in the context of charlie Hebdo

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 10 Jan 2015 20:21

Hari Seldon wrote:Maher on Muslims: "When there’s this many bad apples, something wrong with the orchard.” http://thebea.st/1xOXcYv

Lol. This guy's good, man.

You missed the best part

He also had some harsh words for the Financial Times, who were critical of Charlie Hebdo and Jyllands-Posten’s anti-Islam cartoons lampooning the Prophet Muhammad. “It is merely to say that some common sense would be useful at publications such as Charlie Hebdo, and Denmark’s Jyllands-Posten, which purport to strike a blow for freedom when they provoke Muslims, but are actually just being stupid,” printed the paper.

“To a coward, courage always looks like stupidity,” said Maher. “What assholes. Who are these Financial Times people? You know what, it’s wrong to kill cartoonists. It’s galling to be asked to respect that… Doesn’t it say at all how insecure religion is? It’s such a house of cards where if anyone says anything or draws a cartoon, they get worried.”

That response is very apt for the ones who and all have the same opinion as FT

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 10 Jan 2015 21:10

"moderate muslims" whining today:

"Muslims are criticized for being a community, but then asked to react against terrorism as a community."

and in response to Bill Maher's statement that you need to support other people's right to disrespect the prophet or allah, this islamic woman whines:

@LibyaLiberty: #AllMuslims must be held accountable for any Muslim crime and #YoureNotAModerateMuslim if you only condemn terrorism.

So let us see now, you want islamic banking, islamic science, islamic undies, and islamic dating and differentiate your ummah club from every other group in your environment, except when it comes to islamic terrorism, it is none of your ummah's problem (even when the terrorist should "allah hu akbar" explicitly state islam as their motivation), and then start pretending that it is very unfair to expect islamic support for mockery and ridicule of islamic religious figures that get people killed. Hypocritical wankers. Do such "moderate muslims" bother to look at themselves in the mirror? I wonder.

Rajagopal · Post by **Rajagopal** » 11 Jan 2015 01:20

Tarek fatah is one brave dude to be able to stand in front of a mosque in Toronto and display support for charlie hebdo
https://twitter.com/MCCongress/media

I have tough time getting my friends on facebook to even like "I support charlie" link. In such an environment, the public act by Tarek Fatah is unprecedented in a city with a large population of Muslims.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 11 Jan 2015 02:41

Paki Army's lover boy Eric Margolis on Radio demonstrating his pakiness by blaming Charlie Hebdo "for bringing it on themselves" by being "inflammatory".

https://soundcloud.com/tarek-fatah/eric ... sayd-paris

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 11 Jan 2015 05:08

http://www.outlookindia.com/article/Und ... ion/293069

This trend in the media requires our attention. Apparently secularists, agnostics and atheists must keep silent and do not deserve the kind of respect that believers are entitled to; nor can they enjoy free speech to the same degree.

In the name of “respect” of religions and of the religious sentiments of believers, it is indeed the fanatical religious-Right that is being supported and given centre stage. Meanwhile, those who are on the forefront of countering armed fundamentalists are left to their own devices. It is high time to give these secularists prominence, to recognise their courage and their political clarity and to stop labelling them “Islamophobic”.

In October 2014, secularists— including atheists, agnostics and believers from many countries, in particular many Muslim-majority countries, met in London to denounce the religious-Right and to demand being seen as its alternative. It is high time to learn from their analysis and lived experiences.

About time, this was spelt out. Not that I have any hope it will sink in. Politicians all over the world over are spineless wankers who will choose political expedience over the fundamentals of their own constitution, as we saw from the fool Hollande's "Islam is not at fault" statement, and Obama's similar worthless drool along the same lines a couple of months ago. As this Hebdo killings showed, the journalists and editors in most countries are even worse, especially that beacon of freedom, democracy, milk, honey, etc., the USA, which is worst of the lot, when it comes to GUBOing to islamists and teaching their younger generations to do the same.

arun · Post by **arun** » 11 Jan 2015 08:01

Child suicide bomber kills 20 in attack on Nigerian market

Hadith of Sunan Abu-Dawud is one of the collection’s of hadiths that undisputedly numbers among what Mohammaddens term “Kutub al-Sittah” or translated “The Authentic Six”. Within this collection of the doings of the founder of Mohammaddenism, mention is made to the Abu Qurayzaa group of Jews that were residing in Medina. Hadith 4390 says that all captives with pubic hair were deemed old enough to be executed and they were accordingly executed.

The above hadith was used by the Un-uniformed Jihadi’s of the TTP to proclaim the slaughter of the children of the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan at a Military run school in Peshawar, as Islamic. See Twitter message of Hindol Sengupta, editor of Fortune India, quoting TTP spokesperson Muhammaed Khorasani (Tweet).

Thus while we may consider a ten year, a child, followers of Mohammaddeism, depending on the absence or presence of genital fuzz may or may not, with such interpretation endorsed by the Prophet of their religion.

Translation of hadith 4390 of Sunan Abu-Dawud from University of Southern California’s Center for Muslim-Jewish Engagement:

Book 38, Number 4390:

Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi:

I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.

Clicky

arun · Post by **arun** » 11 Jan 2015 09:55

arun wrote:Mani Shankar Aiyar, politician belonging to the Nehru-Gandhi family led “Secular” political party with a communally minded agenda of pandering to Mohammadden religious minority for vote-bank purposes and permanent fixture of “Track 2” circuit of appeasing the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, is predictably soft on the Mohammadden Terrorist slaughter at the offices of French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo. On Twitter the Congress party politician gets the stick:

Congress leader Mani Shankar Aiyar justifies Charlie Hebdo killing, Twitter declares war

See Twitter here:

#AiyarTerrorLogic

The BJP asks why Leader of Congress Party, Sonia Gandhi, is playing communal vote-bank politics and is silent about comments of a senior functionary her party, Mani Shankar Aiyer, regards the slaughter prepetrated by Mohammadden Terrorists at offices of Charlie Hebdo in France, a country where majority of the population are like Sonia Gandhi Christist's of Catholic sect:

BJP: Why is Sonia Gandhi silent on Aiyar’s Paris comment?

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 11 Jan 2015 10:38

arun wrote:The BJP asks why Leader of Congress Party, Sonia Gandhi, is playing communal vote-bank politics and is silent about comments of a senior functionary her party, Mani Shankar Aiyer, regards the slaughter prepetrated by Mohammadden Terrorists at offices of Charlie Hebdo in France, a country where majority of the population are like Sonia Gandhi Christist's of Catholic sect:

BJP: Why is Sonia Gandhi silent on Aiyar’s Paris comment?

Very weak response from the BJP.

They should have stated that MS Aiyyar and his party have been explicitly outed as terrorist sympathizers. This was of course known for long in the Indian context - but it is good that the Western world has also become aware of the Congress' long-standing sympathy for Islamist terror, whether in India or worldwide.

arun · Post by **arun** » 11 Jan 2015 11:57

X Posted from the “Oppression of Minorities In Pakistan” thread.

Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden religion based violence sees Doctors / Physicians of minority Shia Mohammadden sect being killed in multiple attacks across the Islamic Republic of Pakistan by their co-religionists.

Shia sectarian organistaion Majlis-e-Wahdatul Muslimeen aka MWM says that two Shia Doctors / Physicians were gunned down in Karachi in a sectarian attack:

Return of target killing: Two doctors gunned down in Karachi

Karachi attacks was followed by one more Intra-Mohammadden sectarian attack in Peshawar resulting in one Doctor / Physician being killed:

Physician shot dead in Peshawar

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 11 Jan 2015 14:04

A_Gupta wrote:What was brought out in the recent attack in France is that there are 5 million Muslims in France, within which 5000 are suspected to be radicalized, and of course, only a handful of those 5000 have actually committed crimes in France. So one might take the M. Steven Fish view.

But what was also brought out in the recent attack in France is that the French security forces don't have enough manpower to keep surveillance on 5000 radicals to try to prevent attacks from happening.

So it takes only 0.1% of the population to be radicalized and of those only 0.1% to commit acts of terror (which makes it rational to expect more incidents from the radicalized) to completely tie up the security apparatus of a nation.

Notice that terror is not like other crimes. E.g., an individual citizen can do a lot to try to protect himself from crime, because crime comes from material motives, so, e.g., you put your valuables in a locker in the bank, you lock your car when you leave it, etc.

The nature of terrorism is that it seeks to cause terror, i.e., it is random, unpredictable, etc. It strikes at schools, offices, places of worship, stadiums, trains, buses etc,. places where people congregate, etc. It is difficult to guard against.

So the question "is Islam violent?" is not a properly posed question. A lower murder rate among Muslims related to money, lust, and the other common motives than other people is besides the point. Even the incidence of conventional warfare is besides the point. It is all about terrorism.

Terrorists can function when they can swim with the other fish in the sea, as Mao said (or something like that) about communists.

We may be giving abstract numbers and percentages too much importance, at the cost of understanding the human psychological element. I think most Muslims are "not terrorists" in the sense that they are not necessarily willing to commit acts of terrorist murder and mayhem themselves, and some may even feel a twinge of sadness when confronted with the effects of such actions.

At the same time, the questions to be asked are: how many would take the trouble to organize and act against fellow Muslims, who, although small in number, are committing terrorism? Will they deny them infrastructural, propaganda, financial and other facilities? If they don't have the tools of civilization at their command, will they (have they ever?) at least form a savage mob and lynch some of these terrorists and their facilitators (the number of the latter is huge compared to the number of actual terrorists: preachers in mosques, posters on internet sites, those who argue for violent action to defend and raise the prestige of their religion)? After all, Muslims are widely treated with kid gloves because they are supposed to be so sensitive to the wrong words being said, or words being said in the wrong tone, and can resort to mass violence, so has any of this Muslim sensitivity ever been aroused by those arguing in favor of terrorism? Have there been any fights on college campuses, street corners, coffee / tea shops, mosques etc. started by angry "moderates" enraged by the extremists' views?

I suspect the 5000 number is a result of very narrow accounting. There may be 5000 mujahedeen warriors, but if we include the numbers who constitute the support system, it will be a couple of orders of magnitudes higher at least. And all those people have to live somewhere, most will have families (don't forget the celebrated extended family ties of the Muslims), they will be walking around the streets in muslim ghettoes, patronizing Muslim businesses etc. They are doing all this completely unhindered by any fear of rousing the anger of their fellow Muslims.

Is fear of the terrorists a factor? Undoubtedly it must be. But on the other hand, these putative moderate Muslims live in West European countries that have plenty of money and more importantly, a really good command of social and security services theory and practice, geared to protecting communities under threat. Here again, racism and indifference on the part of the white establishment might be playing a part in the withholding of these kind of services from the Muslims in their countries; also, it would require massive extra investment in social services staff hiring and training (but less than the cost of absorbing terrorist attacks and risking the complete disintegration of their civliizations, I am guessing). That being the case, if the vast majority of Muslims in Europe were peaceful and terrorism-hating moderates, we should be hearing some voices from them demanding more investment in protecting their communities from the extremist bullies who are supposedly holding them hostage. Such voices would be amplified on a global scale by social media and would raise very loud questions as to why countries like France and UK are not doing more to protect and nurture their model-minority moderate Muslims.

How many such voices are we hearing? I don't mean the usual routine condemnations by Muslim leaders after attacks like the recent ones in Paris (many of them also slyly hinting that the European societies have allowed the extremists to win over the moderates by not giving in to the demands of the extremists to a suitably moderate extent), which are dutifully played up in the nicer of the media outlets, but, voices that harshly criticize the European governments for not empowering the supposed moderates to stand up to the extremist bullies in their midst, voices that call for thrashing the extremists in their midst to within an inch of their lives.

I think the peaceful, moderate Muslims are mostly "good cop" to the extremists' "bad cop." Endless debates as to whether this means Islam is a bad religion or whether the Quran is a wonderful thing (a subject that Yindoos seem to be fascinated by) are meaningless and irrelevant in my opinion. A proper liberal position should be this: If people immigrate to a country that already has its own mostly liberal values and civilization, and then demand an adjustment of those values to accommodate their own reactionary values, then it is the right and duty of the liberals to crush the reactionaries without mercy to the point they won't dream of making such demands. It doesn't matter at all whether they cite some book or the other to support their demands.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 11 Jan 2015 14:14

Arjun wrote:
arun wrote:The BJP asks why Leader of Congress Party, Sonia Gandhi, is playing communal vote-bank politics and is silent about comments of a senior functionary her party, Mani Shankar Aiyer, regards the slaughter prepetrated by Mohammadden Terrorists at offices of Charlie Hebdo in France, a country where majority of the population are like Sonia Gandhi Christist's of Catholic sect:

BJP: Why is Sonia Gandhi silent on Aiyar’s Paris comment?
Very weak response from the BJP.

They should have stated that MS Aiyyar and his party have been explicitly outed as terrorist sympathizers. This was of course known for long in the Indian context - but it is good that the Western world has also become aware of the Congress' long-standing sympathy for Islamist terror, whether in India or worldwide.

Very very weak. Every wall should be plastered with MSA's words. They should be hounding Congress about this & while we are at it, Batla House, Ishrat Jahan, 26/11 & RSS - all the crap Congressi traitors have dished out as terror apologists. I do not understand why BJP would let go of such a golden chance.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 11 Jan 2015 14:21

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... Islam.html

Meanwhile in the Queendom, one Manzanur Rehman says Hebdo had it coming.

Sidenote 1: Hayat Boumedienne is Algerian, Suraj was right.

Sidenote 2: take the Sonia/Aiyar/BJP discussion to the right thread (Indian political scene - where it can be thrashed out. It will take this thread WOT).

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 11 Jan 2015 14:42

A_Gupta wrote:So the question "is Islam violent?" is not a properly posed question. A lower murder rate among Muslims related to money, lust, and the other common motives than other people is besides the point. Even the incidence of conventional warfare is besides the point. It is all about terrorism.

Steven Fish is a moron who mis-applies conclusions about Muslim-majority countries to Muslims as a whole. Muslims in practically ALL free multicultural societies hugely underperform the rest of the population on ANY parameter related to violence or criminality. Terrorism just happens to be the most visible tip of the iceberg.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 Jan 2015 17:16

ISIS, Pakistan and Al Qaeda are interesting because they serve as a unification of two separate Islamic wars against dar ul harb.

Reading Edward Said becomes clear to me that there is a completely separate Islamic-Europe war and hatred with no connection whatsoever to Shitistan or India. Islam did what it could in Europe and in exchange Europe squeezed the shit out of the center of dar ul Islam, serially capturing and dominating dar ul Islam and destroying the Caliphate.

Pakistan is a sideshow. But the west used Pakistan as a way of maintaining friendly relations with Islam and trying to keep the vast mass of Muslims in the world (Indian subcontinent) friendly to the west. The creation of Pakistan was a convenient step in having an Islamic vassal. But the west never really had any intention of fighting Islam's wars. Gradually that policy has failed as there was anger in Pakistan at the west. For decades the Paki anger and the Arab anger were separate issues, with the Pakis being held in check by bribes, while the Arabs were held in check by a mixture of diplomacy, economy and military means via Israel.

Al Qaeda and the Taliban served as the first meeting point of Arab interests and Pakistani interests and with the US allowing Pakistan to play a double game, Pakistan has, to an extent, managed to unite the militant cause of the Arabs with their own hatred of India. In short islam has been set up against every non Islamic nation on earth, and Pakistan has been a key element.

I don't think the west knows how to deal with Pakistan. European nations on their own do not have the power to deal with an Arab-Pakistan allowance. They will compromise. Only the US has the clout to hold back dar ul Islam and like WW 2 where the US was the key to an "Allied" victory, the US will be a key actor.

But none of this takes India into account. India is the only country with the motivation and need to take on Pakistan. Without Pakistani power - Arab power is nothing. And as long as India can tear Pakistan down, the west can hold its own against Arab Islam. But the west "holding its own" is not necessarily advantageous to China.

China has a unique role. If China makes Pakistan stronger in relation to India, the Arab-Pakistan combine can remain strong against the West. That will help China gain power in relation to the West. So it may be in Chinese interests to prop up Pakistan. For this reason it probably is in Indian interest to make deals with Japan, Korea and Vietnam to keep China occupied so that it does not gain to much power.

Ultimately demography will make Europe weaker, and rising Islam over a weak Europe will be a threat to India. India needs to use its population advantage to become a military power that can take on China and Pakistan - so that if any one of them becomes weak, India will be overwhelmingly dominant. And it is in Europe's interest to see India get there. JMT

Footnote: The French, greedy as they are, had better do a good deal with India and do it soon. Europe will need India IMO

arun · Post by **arun** » 11 Jan 2015 18:05

Dr. Theodore Dalrymple, retired British physician, Dietrich Weismann Fellow at the Manhattan Institute of Policy Research and contributing editor of City Journal says that us Non-Mohammaddens have every reason to fear the “handful” of Mohammadden Terrorists rather than draw comfort from the “large number of peaceful” Mohammaddens:

Tyranny of the Minority: There is more to fear in one terrorist than to celebrate in 99 well-adjusted immigrants.

The shots in the Paris street that were seen and heard around the world killed Ahmed Merabet, a Muslim policeman going to the defense of Charlie Hebdo: a reminder that by no means all Muslims in France, far from it, are France-hating, Allahu-akbar-shouting fanatics, and that many are well-integrated. ………………………

Unfortunately, this is not as reassuring as it sounds, because a handful of fanatics can easily have a much more significant social effect than a large number of peaceful citizens. There is more to fear in one terrorist than to celebrate in 99 well-integrated immigrants. And if only 1 percent of French Muslims were inclined to terrorism, this would still be more than 50,000 people, more than enough to create havoc in a society. The jihadists now have a large pool from which to draw, and there are good reasons to think that more than 1 percent of young Muslims in France are distinctly anti-French. The number of young French jihadists fighting in Syria is estimated to be 1,200, equal to 1 percent in numbers of the French army, and probably not many fewer than the number of Algerian guerrillas fighting during much of the Algerian War of Independence. ……………………..

From here:

Tyranny of the Minority : There is more to fear in one terrorist than to celebrate in 99 well-adjusted immigrants.

arun · Post by **arun** » 11 Jan 2015 18:18

X Posted with a Hat Tip to Anujan from the STFUP thread.

Hard hitting article by Tunku Vardarajan aimed at self-flagellating Non-Mohammadden’s ever willing to provide a burka for the violence committed in the name of the Mohammaddenism that targets Non-Mohammaddens:

Why Paris is even more shocking than Peshawar

Tunku Varadarajan| Jan 11, 2015, 05.47 AM IST

Terrorists massacre satirists in Paris to avenge a mocking of the prophet, Mohammad, and the usual earnest chorus of Muslim spokesmen says that this bloodbath isn't the reality of Islam—which is, let it be intoned for the umpteenth time in the aftermath of carnage, a religion of peace. Terrorists massacre satirists in Paris in the name of their religion and the usual self-flagellating chorus of Western liberals says, "Wait, don't judge Islam harshly, for the West can be just as barbarous," followed by references to the Inquisition, colonialism, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, drones and Islamophobia. Mass murder by Islamist terrorists offers an opportunity to list, afresh, all the sins of Western history. ……………..

............... Link added later:

TOI

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 11 Jan 2015 18:21

Reading Edward Said becomes clear to me that there is a completely separate Islamic-Europe war and hatred with no connection whatsoever to Shitistan or India.

That bolded part is, almost word for word (except Shitistan

), what I heard in the not so distant past from one our own ex-babus.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 11 Jan 2015 18:55

The relevant Charlie Hebdo cartoons:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/0 ... 29552.html

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 11 Jan 2015 19:25

Dipanker wrote:May be those killed are black Africans that is why there has been hardly any coverage of this:

2,000 Killed by Boko Haram in Nigeria Town, Say Reports

Even on BRF you will hear far more of Charlie Hebdo than this.

The other forum does not even prides itself on being ahead of the curve and they have a full thread on this. But then they have threads for every goddamned news in the world. They have more threads than posts in them

.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 11 Jan 2015 19:48

ravi_g wrote:
Dipanker wrote:May be those killed are black Africans that is why there has been hardly any coverage of this:

2,000 Killed by Boko Haram in Nigeria Town, Say Reports
Even on BRF you will hear far more of Charlie Hebdo than this.

The other forum does not even prides itself on being ahead of the curve and they have a full thread on this. But then they have threads for every goddamned news in the world. They have more threads than posts in them .

Well, I'm not sure BRF is concerned with every humanitarian problem on the globe, but those that are likely to have more impact on India. ISIS-related terrorism currently and perhaps mistakenly seems more of threat than Boko Haram's variety. Perhaps we should more critically examine that.

PS: Here is an article arguing that Boko Haram is a massive threat to India:

http://www.indiatimes.com/news/world/do ... 29326.html

According to an Intelligence Bureau report, the drug selling Nigerians that are common on the beaches of Goa and streets of Delhi and Mumbai are controlled by them {Boko Haram}. Drug money is a lucrative source for most major terrorist outfits. Some reports have even connected them to Dawood Ibrahim.

After last year’s big drug crackdown in Goa and other places, drug peddlers sought protection, and Boko Haram stepped in. The Intelligence Bureau is on the lookout for 2,500 Nigerians living illegally in India. "We suspect that many of them are brought into India by Dawood for illegal activities," an Intelligence Bureau agent has said.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 11 Jan 2015 20:39

@shiv can you comment on the role if Russia in the Islam vs the Rest equation?