Indian Autos Thread

sampat · Post by **sampat** » 18 Dec 2014 03:24

arshyam wrote:^Are you talking about desi winters? I once spent an entire winter in Vermont, with my trusty old VW for company. Not one issue I had, considering I had to start the car in knee deep snow, and -10F cold.

Nordic Winters. Does you VW has central locking? It's very known problem with VW.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 18 Dec 2014 03:59

Yes, central locking, remote, etc. No issues. Maybe it was restricted to a few models/years?

sampat · Post by **sampat** » 18 Dec 2014 15:11

I have polo but online search shows that this problem is across models including golf and Passat. According to service company, cars manufactured in Spain had these lock problems. Online search shows that people with older models from 1999-2012 come across this problem. I don't if this has been fixed in latest models.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Dec 2014 22:09

the number of vw cars atleast in bay area seems to have come down compared to a decade ago when the jetta and passat and even the golf were hot selling models for the itvity crowd. hardly see any in the parking among the rows of hondas, toyota, hyundai, nissan, acura, lexus and bmw.

negi · Post by **negi** » 18 Dec 2014 23:13

^ VW is in a no man's land their Audis are the only face savers in NA if you go to SA VW is like Maruti as they have a big plant there. In fact VWs along with Fiat and Renault are the most commonly available cars for rent in Brazil.

The only EU brand giving some competition to BMWs , Benz and Audi in Massa is Volvo . Station wagon and S60 are a pretty common sight in the new England area.

negi · Post by **negi** » 18 Dec 2014 23:19

In my ~6 years in Massa no one apart from a Rusi colleague in my friend circle had a VW. It was pretty simple in Massa i.e. if you wanted a VFM car with good FE then go for a Toyota/Honda/Nissan if you wanted a chi chi badge buy BMW/Merc/Audi or if you wanted to fit in buy a Mustang/Wrangler/Cherokee/Escalade , VW could never fit itself into either of these buckets. Then there were players like Subaru/Volvo which make reliable station wagon or 4*4 type stuff.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 18 Dec 2014 23:21

Go up to the pacific nw - Germans rule the roost, along with Subarus and Volvos. The Japanese heavyweights are of course present, but the Detroit ones are significantly rarer when compared to central or southern US.

Sampatji - thanks for the info about the Spain made VWs - mine was a phoren car made in Germany onlee!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Dec 2014 00:03

subarus were very popular in the NE as well due to snow.

but overall in the last decade I see very little to no change in the overall form factor, technology of the cars except better entertainment system and gps which are accessories. the only major change is proliferation of hybrids and EV. every morning the EV crowd runs to office to avail of the free charging slots.

the onlee one i liked here is toyota venza and that is a imported model which was there in far east earlier.

like the camera megapixel or smartphone screen size wars, the car HP and style wars seem to have reached stable lagrangian point.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 19 Dec 2014 00:08

Singha wrote: but overall in the last decade I see very little to no change in the overall form factor, technology of the cars except better entertainment system and gps which are accessories. the only major change is proliferation of hybrids and EV. every morning the EV crowd runs to office to avail of the free charging slots.

It's the same thing as you see with the new passenger aircraft models. The new ones aren't bigger or faster. Just more efficient than the last one with better cockpits. Hardly exciting.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 19 Dec 2014 00:37

^^ Saar, the 'kitna deta hai' bug has caught massa too....

negi · Post by **negi** » 19 Dec 2014 00:43

^ They better , I mean how does one explain giving lecture to dirty SDREs on climate change and drive fuel guzzling V8s ? Look at GOI engines bigger than 1.5 ltr displacement incur heavy excise duty that is why likes of VW had to downhill ski and swap the regular 1.6 ltr diesel mill with a 1.5 ltr for India . Same is the case with Honda they introduced their first diesel engine this year displacing ~1.5 litrs.

EVen BMW now has the regular 3 series with a 4 cylinder turbo charged engine and a M3 with a 3 ltr straight 6.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Dec 2014 01:28

do EVs need to charge everyday looking at the desperate rush to leech on the office charging? I would have thought one charge should give around 400 miles ie more than enough for a week of commuting?

its probably different in the south and east coast nascar heartland, but the onlee muscular pickups i see in bay area are those who genuinely need it like gardening crews, municipal vehicles, construction workers/plumbers types hauling around stuff. msot suv are just lexus and honda crv type soft suvs.

the new ford explorer looks like a slick beast though. ford definitely has got itself some good stylists in suv dept.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 19 Dec 2014 02:43

True. But it stills riles me to see a massive V8 SUV or truck parked in a neighbouring spot in a Whole foods parking lot (or my KB for that matter) - and only one person shows up to drive the behemoth. And most massan SUVs are huge, not the small Ecosport types that seat the same 4/5 people. Yet NYT routinely castigates desh for polluting and burning dirty coal.

Negi-ji, most German autos rely on turbos quite heavily to get a perf similar to bigger engined cars - at least in massa. Hence the average Passat uses a 2.0L 4-cyl Turbo when similar sized cars use 3.0L or go for V6s. Not say these options don't exist on German autos, but they are not the standard options. In fact older Passats like mine were slightly smaller: 1.8L Turbo 4-cyl and yielded a good 30MPG highway and still delivered a nifty 150HP.

Do desi VWs have the turbo option, and does the market fancy the turbo option much? My ride in desh is a humble Santro onlee, so not well versed with fancier models (in desh).

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 19 Dec 2014 22:35

^^ It's all about the torque in naturally aspirated engines only saar! I must confess I like it that way too.

I have driven a turbocharged Vdub Jetta and presently I drive a 5.3 litre SAAB 9-7 and a 3.5 litre Nissan Maxima. There is no comparison between naturally aspirated engines and turbocharged engines.

I prefer the large NA engines any day over turbocharged ones, and damn the fuel costs! I purchased my cars for my driving pleasure not to watch my fuel milage. Most American's prefer it that way IMVHO.

---- added later ----
IOW - There's no replacement for displacement!

PPS: By torque I mean wideband torque, not cam modified Toyota's with their narrow high rev torque bands please.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Dec 2014 20:23

How is the Toyota fj cruiser? Looks like a Tonka kids toy but has a certain aesthetic appeal.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 20 Dec 2014 22:12

I always consider the FJ cruiser to be a poor man's version of the Hummer. For the small number of kitna deta hai types who still want a testosterone filled muscular behemoth. Was disappointed that Toyota even came up with such a car, but hey, it's bijnezz, no personal!

negi · Post by **negi** » 21 Dec 2014 23:19

Turbo lag affects performance drivers or at places where air becomes really thin, my brother went to Leh on a Scorpio according to him the engine is a beast on highways but on mountains it refuses to move on slopes unless you press the pedal to get RPM high enough for 1st gear to engage at a value when Turbo has kicked in.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 22 Dec 2014 09:28

Shalav, if you don't mind which part of US are you living, Must be relatively traffic free for you to use those big engines. Even Urban USA will burn your pocket.

Urban India- a 5.3 lit petrol engine will consume fuel like a Tank, it will how many gallons to a mile rather than miles per gallon.

It all depends on what size f turbo engine used, in Indian traffic conditions and state highways I find my Ecoboost 1.0 engine is far easier to overtake than my father and FIL's 3rd gen Honda City 1.5 lit I Vtec engine ( The I vtec is probably the best NA engine in the less than 15 lac category).

You should try and drive the 3.5 liter Ecoboost fitted engines in the USA.

Yes Turbocharged engines will be affected more by altitude. There are no Diesel passenger cars without Direct fuel injection, Turbo charging in India since there output will be too low like Ford Ikon 1.8D, Ambassodor , MM540, Tata Sierra etc.

The only exception is the Force Gurkha which is exclusively meant for Offroading and will be a pain to drive above 70KM.

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 22 Dec 2014 23:36

Aditya,

I drive the SAAB mostly in mixed driving, highway and city, in this mode I get about 6.5 km/l. The SAAB is a fuel guzzler, but with the large 8 cyl engine it runs smoothly and I have power on tap at the press of the pedal, no matter what RPM the tachometer is showing. It is a trade-off I am happy to pay for. Redline is 6500 RPM, but I've never reached that. The SUV is speed limited to 149 mph due to the V rated factory tires. I have read it can do upto 175 mph with the limiter disabled and stock tires replaced by (W) or Y rated tires.

I have driven this car, across the high plains of Colorado and NM (between 5 - 6 k feet ASL) towing a 2 ton trailer with no problems on climbs and descents. The engine did not over-heat at all on steep grades towing at between 55 - 65 mph, and I could still overtake slower trucks very very quickly on up-slopes with a slight tap on the foot pedal. There was plenty of power as needed. The relatively flat torque band and large engine is what makes this possible, just like in my Maxima.

The Maxima gives me about 9.5 km/l in mixed driving, also because of its large NA VQ series engine. This award winning VQDE engine powers the Maxima, Infinity G & Infinity M brands. Great torque band, and lightweight as compared to the SAAB. That thing just zips along.

With its wideband torque you can be tooling along the highway at 65 mph and 3000 RPM, then tap the accelerator hitting the peak of torque output at around 4000 rpm. You will then find yourself at 80 mph 5-8 secs later, easily overtaking that "slow" 18 wheeler going at 65 mph. It is a performance car with no compromises. The Mrs. just loves driving this car, and will not drive the SAAB, so snow driving duties still fall on me

PS: She had a chance to drive the Ford Fusion and the Honda Accord (a week each) recently while the Maxima was in for some bodywork. She said she preferred the Ford with its general zippiness, as compared to the "lethargic" (her words) Honda Accord. I suppose Ford has got the engine right with its ecoboost technology.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 23 Dec 2014 00:06

Shalav wrote:---- added later ----
IOW - There's no replacement for displacement!

PPS: By torque I mean wideband torque, not cam modified Toyota's with their narrow high rev torque bands please.

I got my car specifically for the NA V8 RWD platform. Nothing better than low end torque, unless you're the rear tyres

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 23 Dec 2014 00:22

Suraj

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 23 Dec 2014 00:23

Singha

The FJ looks good to me too, never had chance to drive one. Perhaps one day!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Dec 2014 04:17

I changed over from renting the weak engined nissan sentra to a more powerful altima. 184hp, 2.5ltr is the spec. seems to run much more easy in the 60-80 band esp hilly routes common here as in I-680. but both cars lack any sort of steering or road feel....my civic and even my ecosport(has a really loose steering azimuth in the center) is much better in that aspect...that crisp sharp planted feel is missing. not sure how the maxima is doing, seen a few of the legendary old school maximas flitting around here.

the nissan interior lacks the considered and functional thoughfulness of the hondas/toyotas....fairly uninspiring product but I guess its large and ok for a rental.

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 23 Dec 2014 04:41

When you're next in the mid-west, you should drive the 6 Gen Maxima I have. The Maxima's reputation as a drivers car is not undeserved. The 7th Gen Maxima life is done this year and the 8th gen 2015 Maxima is due to be released soon.

http://reviewcar2015.com/nissan-2015-ma ... ima-nismo/

Not sure about the Sentra's and Altima's but I've driven the Versa, the sedan is a sh!t drive, while the hatchback has great road-feel. Even in the Maxima, there were two models, the SE and SL. The Luxury SL version had dampened shocks, and a "mushy" handling. The SE had tighter shocks and very crisp handling.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Dec 2014 04:45

at some point they made the altima as big as the old maxima and their cheap people mover. it used to be much smaller earlier no bigger than todays corolla.
the maxima I think was made a little bit smaller, their best engine and fitting and made the performance sport sedan.

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 23 Dec 2014 04:48

Yes - The Altima became the mid-sized Accord, Camry competitor, while the Maxima is classified as a full-sized car competing with the Toyota Avalon. The 7th gen Maxiam broke that trend and had IIRC 2" shorter wheel-base. I've driven it once or twice on test drives and it is a great car to drive too.

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 23 Dec 2014 05:06

The Maxima's always had better engines than the i4 Altima's (VQ series). The VQ IIRC is used on their Infinity brands in the G and M models and the Maxima and 3.5 l Altima's

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 23 Dec 2014 05:22

The older Nissan V8 engines seem to have a similar basic power profile as my BMW V8: ~300hp and ~340lb/ft . Plus, the engine bay is well organized, letting me do most tasks on my own, most recently a regular replacement of spark plugs and O2 sensors.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 23 Dec 2014 20:25

IMO, the 4th gen Maxima was the true sports sedan, lightweight, approx 3000 lbs with the 3 litre VQ engine, then one of the finest engines in the world and available with a 6 speed manual. The Altima was then a runt of a car. Unfortunately its been downhill ever since that generation for the Maxima. The styling degenerated, it grew big and flabby and it was replaced by the 3rd gen Altima to fight the Camcords. The other issue hurting Nissan was their very early adoption of ill-sorted CVTs. I think later arrivals to the CVT party have done much better implementation of it i.e. the 2013 Honda Accord and even Subaru.

Nowadays 300 hp is average, 15 years ago, it was super car territory. My 2013 Chrysler 300 with a 3.6 litre Pentastar V6 has 292 hp/260 ft/lb. With the 8 speed ZF transmission, Car and Driver tested it at 6.6 secs, 0-60. The 8 speed has such wide ratios, in 8th at 120 kmph, the engine is turning over only 1.5k rpms. Plus on pure highway runs at a steady 120 kmph, it does about 13 km/l, caveat, summer tires, summer weather, summer grades of gasoline. For a car that weighs 4000 lbs +, I think that's amazing.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 24 Dec 2014 12:47

Massa Highways and space in Massa means it is pretty easy to drive compared to Desh, compared with relatively cheaper gas price to Income , one can really buy Big engines cars. If those cars are used in Indian cities, the Kitna deti effect will be 6/7 miles to the gallon,i.e 2/3 per km litre.

I guess Indian cities provide one of the most challenging environments with poor road design and wonderful Autos, two wheelers, commerical drives, Aces, Magics.

Even long drives one needs to be atleast 50km out of a major city on a highway or tourist spot to really enjoy the true pleasures of driving- that too preferably on Weeday in non festival season.

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 25 Dec 2014 02:12

If you've driven a petrol Amby and you just have to love big engines. There is no two ways about it. The Amby's engine was slow to rev up and torque was not so hot, but once it got going it kept on going on highways and anywhere. So much so, that Premier Padmini engines felt anemic compared to it.

When I learned to drive, those two cars were about the only options available to normal people. Maruti was still distant dream with 2-3 year waitlists. Even the Bajaj Chetak was a 8-10 year waitlist, with immediate delivery only if you paid in Foreign Exchange.

I suppose I got my love of big engines driving a friends dad's Amby Mk4 with a 1.7 litre engine, while I was driving my dad's PP. I always thought to my self then that, if I could afford it I would opt for bigger cars with bigger engines. So I blame the Amby for my big car fetish! :p

negi · Post by **negi** » 25 Dec 2014 02:20

There is no doubt that driving characteristics of a high displacement engine are on any given day better than a lower one everything else being the same; actually in India you will feel it even more when going over the bumps or crawling traffic the torque of a more powerful naturally asiprated engine will make sure that car crawls over the speed breakers and B2B traffic with ease without any shudder or stall, however with a turbocharged engine at RPM <1.5Ks you will suddenly feel as if engine is lugging a huge load. Bottom line is between FE and driving characteristics the former wins in desh , we do not get petrol here at same rate as Massans do factor in the per capita income and the equation becomes even more skewed.

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 25 Dec 2014 02:30

No doubt Negi.

In desh, the ones who can afford the fuel expenses and big displacement engines, let their drivers drive BMW 5/7, Jags and Audi's!

While those who desire and yearn for good cars to drive, are driving the more affordable smaller displacement cars.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 25 Dec 2014 10:31

Shalav wrote: If you've driven a petrol Amby and you just have to love big engines. There is no two ways about it. The Amby's engine was slow to rev up and torque was not so hot, but once it got going it kept on going on highways and anywhere. So much so, that Premier Padmini engines felt anemic compared to it.

When I learned to drive, those two cars were about the only options available to normal people. Maruti was still distant dream with 2-3 year waitlists.

Actually, there were a few other options as well (Standard motors, Sipani etc.) and I learned to drive on one of these company's products. Those car models were actually the fastest accelerating cars in India until the Marutis showed up. To be fair though, those cars were probably more common in the South than elsewhere in India, as both companies were based there (I never saw either company's products in Bengal or Assam, for instance)

Shalav wrote:Even the Bajaj Chetak was a 8-10 year waitlist, with immediate delivery only if you paid in Foreign Exchange.

I suppose I got my love of big engines driving a friends dad's Amby Mk4 with a 1.7 litre engine, while I was driving my dad's PP. I always thought to my self then that, if I could afford it I would opt for bigger cars with bigger engines. So I blame the Amby for my big car fetish! :p

Hehe, for a while I thought 1.7 liters was a big engine too, until I hit stateside

.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 25 Dec 2014 13:02

Yup! I remember the Standard 2000. My uncle had one of those in powder blue. 3-5 km to the liter IIRC.

And it had the turning radius of a boat. I think fewer than 1000 were made per year. I remember on a drive to Ooty it stalled on a hill and the driver had to back-up and then take a flying start to make it....

WRT Amby, this is the first time I'm hearing someone call it a Big engine!!

or a big car. Call me conphused. It was a beast of a car, you had to constantly tune the mikuni carburettor at every stop and top up the radiator because it ran so hot. Every Ambassador had a jerrycan with water. When going at 100 kmph max range was 200 km on a full tank.... ...don't ask how I know...

Driving around in it on Ooty roads it would constantly stall on every little hill, in fact there were several routes driver would not go down on cause they could never come back up!

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 25 Dec 2014 23:09

The Standard 2000 was underpowered with its 2L inline, it was introduced late in the mid-80s after Maruti started to catch up with demand by the mid-80's and the waitlists were reduced to 6 months, about what PP and Amby's had at the time. It was expensive and underpowered. If they had offered it with the 3.5L or the even the 2.3/2.6 options, it would have performed better as luxury car.

WRT the Amby, even today with the vast majority of engines sold in India are between 800 - 1.3L, the Amby's 1.5-1.7L engines will be considered a big engine! Why the "conphusion"?

It certainly had a bigger engine and more passenger carrying capacity than the Standard Triumph or the Standard Gazelle with their 950 cc engines, the PP with 1.1L and the Maruti with its 800 cc engines. It accommodated more passengers than any of these cars, along with their luggage. There are legendary stories of how many passengers and luggage it could accommodate. Every family could relate one, or knew someone who talked about its copious carrying capacity.

Most of India preferred Amby's for long distance taxi's and long road trips. They were everywhere, in the deserts, in the mountains, in the forests and the wide smooth roads of New Delhi, moving the Babucracy around.

The problems you mention could probably be bad maintenance on the Amby's you rode on in Ooty? I can't remember Amby's being so unreliable as you mention driving up and down the mountains while going from the hill stations of Lonawala, or even for that matter doing trips to Mussorie from Dehradun.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 08 Jan 2015 20:44

cafe racer aka the continental GT, the most powerful RE to date.

asgkhan · Post by **asgkhan** » 11 Jan 2015 13:41

Ajatshatru wrote:Thanks. The choice is between a Continental and Classic Chrome...

Be mindful of the chrome tank. The paint quality is poor. It peels off and obstructs the fuel line. When taking delivery, remove the cap and check for paint peeling off inside.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 12 Jan 2015 13:22

Only an Enflied owner like ASG Khan can give you valuable tips like these.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 12 Jan 2015 13:39

IIRC, it was quite common to replace the original ambassador engine with a Isuzu one immediatly after purchase. FNG mechanics made good money out of it.

You go to massa and come back and suddenly the Amby looks small.