Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec 2014

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 16 Jan 2015 08:10

Common sense or Finlandization?
I can't decide. On the one hand, I think it is uncivilized for anyone to abuse and insult the sacred beliefs of others' religions. OTOH..
Then again, the French have little sense of humor if they are the ones targeted by the humor, they are some of the most pompous oiseules on the planet, and the targets of much satire around the world. Is The Pink Panther sufficient provocation to murder, since it clearly insults the French? I wonder if it was popular in Algeria, Vietnam and The Congo?

Right now, it looks like the French reaction is to make sure that insults to the Prophet (pbuh) are published as widely as possible, in a clear F-U / in-ur-face /u-ur-musharraf gesture. What if the come out with a million different insults and paste them all over the nation? Esp. in the ghettos which are Islamic-majority? And all violent protest is smashed down? Will thousands of Believers feel the urge to go soosai?

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 16 Jan 2015 09:29

No other "group" carries the same clout and that is good. To be upset over underwear carrying god images is fine. Same with the prophet images. If it bothers you, look the other way. There shouldnt be any other recourse available to anyone --brophet or god.

I also dont care if you believe in these dairy stories or even if you teach them to children (no different than any other). The problem is in the consequences for a)speaking out against, b)trying to leave the "group". The option of actually leaving doesnt exist. Entry exists for outsiders, by force if so desired. Want out? sorry.

You can leave any other relationship, job, country. Why not this "group"? Anything that undermines this control over life, death, and hereafter is fine with me. Even if it comes from cheese eating surrender monkeys.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 16 Jan 2015 10:12

Rajdeep wrote:
JE Menon wrote:>>
d hand herself over to the hunter. But the hunter was not listening to her. At this point the Prophet arrived on the scene. The she-deer at once approached h was requested politely. The deer was released. Edited out text attributed to me that I did not write - JE Menon

Man came to Mehfil, To take urgent Leak
They all stood there, taking subtle Peek
Measuring the length,pressure of Streak
Till it looked Like Rainfull of Flowing Creek
They Started whispering in their Cheek
Then,They heard the Boss Calling Freaks
Come, pay attention, Observe & Seek
Brophetic Method of Watering Soil & Sheep.

Kindly don't edit quotes and put words in other people's mouths. If you want to say something say it yourself please - JE Menon

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jan 2015 11:02

New actor on militant front - DAWN

THE presence of Al Qaeda in Pakistan is nothing new. Arrests of members of the militant franchise have been reported on numerous occasions, while it was in Abbottabad where the outfit’s mastermind Osama bin Laden was assassinated by US forces in 2011.

However in September 2014, signs appeared that the terror network was looking to expand its footprint in this country, as AQ chief Ayman al-Zawahiri announced the establishment of a new franchise in the subcontinent. Since then, members of Al Qaeda Bar-i-Sagheer/Al Qaeda in the Indian Subcontinent (AQIS) have reportedly been involved in the attack on the Karachi naval dockyard in September, while most recently an improvised explosive device bearing the group’s name was discovered and defused by law enforcers in Karachi.

Also read: Al Qaeda man among militants killed in Karachi: police

With an alphabet soup of militant groups already threatening Pakistan’s security, how seriously should the state view the emergence of AQIS? Leading security analyst Muhammad Amir Rana feels it is not something the authorities can choose to ignore.

“Although the footprints of Al Qaeda had been identified in major attacks inside Pakistan, the group was not considered important by the security apparatus and was always considered a part of the global problem and the responsibility of the US. After the establishment of AQ’s South Asia chapter, the threat from the group has increased.”

A retired senior law-enforcement official with extensive policing experience, on condition of anonymity, also agreed that the rise of AQIS should not be brushed aside by the state.

“[AQIS] cannot be taken lightly. It is like the Afghan Taliban and TTP developing a nexus broadly, though at times differing in their strategic objectives. There is method in this crazy game of building militant blocs. The proscribed Pakistani militant organisations may find a new impetus to recruit for this regional player.”

Mr Rana feels it is significant that rather than relying on foreign militants, AQIS has begun to recruit locally.

“This is the first time that AQ has opened its doors to local groups and individuals. This has happened because of the increasing influence of ISIS [the so-called Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham] among Pakistani and Afghan terrorist groups and can intensify threats in the country and the region. Before the significant strategic change, AQ’s core was an exclusive club of Egyptian-, Saudi-, Yemeni- and Libyan-origin terrorists.

“Its chapters in the Arabian Peninsula, Maghreb, Iraq and African Sahel were loosely connected with the central command. The AQ core is not only trying to bring all these chapters under a unified command, but also establishing new chapters to compete with ISIS.”

Coming to ISIS, or Islamic State (IS), as the Middle East-based militant group has branded itself, it will be interesting to see whether pro-IS militants in Pakistan and AQIS operatives will join forces for the jihadi cause, or cross swords as they have done in the Mideast. Amir Rana feels a clash between the two is possible.

“The ISIS factor has provided a lifeline to the terrorist groups in the region. The groups that were not happy with AQ’s operational strategies are now more attracted to ISIS. Their frustration with AQ was mainly due to the conviction that their ultimate objective of establishing an Islamic state and system could not be achieved only through terrorist attacks. The ISIS model showed them the importance of controlling territory in order to project and establish power on the ground.

“AQ was operating through affiliates and realised it may not work in the future. It decided to recruit members directly instead of relying on local associates. ISIS will also affect the Afghan Taliban. While defections cannot be ruled out, it is unclear how ISIS will impact the Afghan Taliban movement, particularly when Mullah Omar wants to establish an Islamic emirate in Afghanistan, while al-Baghdadi [the IS ‘caliph’] wants to extend his Islamic state to the whole world.”

Interestingly, despite the rapid rise of IS in the Middle East, Mr Rana warns that AQ should not be considered washed up just yet.

“Apart from local groups’ inclination towards ISIS, AQ is still strong in the region and enjoys the role of an ideological, operational and strategic partner of the local terrorist groups in Pakistan and Afghanistan. The chances of violent confrontations between AQ and its allies and ISIS-inspired groups cannot be ruled out, as the terrorist groups have a history of not tolerating emerging [outfits].”

Meanwhile, the former law-enforcement official warns of new fronts opening up in Pakistan.

“With the army operation in North Waziristan, the centre of gravity of militancy is going to shift to Punjab and Sindh and certain cross-border affiliations cannot be ruled out.”

habal · Post by **habal** » 16 Jan 2015 11:24

bhaiyon aur behanon .. yeh dekho ek behnch*d ki baatein..

IG (police) of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa is consoling kids thusly ..

hamein dushman ke haathon nahin marna .. hamein ghazi bankar marna hain .. hamein dushmanon ko marna hain.. \

abhe buddhe khusre .. tujhe tere ghar mein ghus kar mareinge.

aaja tuu ghazi ki aulad panga laine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbbmpsqk-jI

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jan 2015 12:04

US welcomes reports of Pakistan's plan to ban Haqqanis - Express Tribune

The United States said on Thursday it welcomed reports that Pakistan was planning to outlaw the Haqqani network and other militant groups linked to violent extremism.

Earlier on Thursday, The Express Tribune quoted senior security officials as saying that a formal announcement of the ban on the Haqqani network and 11 other militant organisations would be made in “coming days.”

OK, now that the proposed 'ban' was leaked days in advance, it would have given the JuD enough time to clean up its accounts etc. It is very much like the month-long notice that the PAF gives before starting to strafe the FATA badlands. This is an eye-wash and a fraud but this will be held against India by the US to force her to talk. India must demand to see further actions before even deciding anything on the talks issue.

The proposed 'ban' on the Haqqani shura is also a fraud because they moved into Kunar a long time back.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 16 Jan 2015 12:40

shiv wrote: Any clues in these sermons as to how the extreme rage when someone blasphemes the Prophet is inculcated?

I don't believe the actual inculcation is in these sermons per se. the sermons onlyreinforce attituded instilled in childhood, at home, in mothers ares
1. v r d best
2. rest r worthy of contempt
3. prophet can't be insulted
4. To insult means death

These are basic, fundamental things written into the minds of children who have nothing else in their mittle minds. Children are born Muslims because they have no other faith in their minds and can have the only faith hard wired for life.[/quote]

Similar cultural indoctrination occurs in other non muslim households as well, but what makes it a huge issue is the inherent violence preached in Quran towards non-believers compared to other texts. One way to counter it would be to embed subtle messages on diversity of thought and a reasoning / questioning attitude very early (from 6 years onwards). India has neglected the phychological aspect of primary education and both teachers and parents alike measure efficiency of primary education in terms of how many facts their kids could learn / remember or how many skills they could showcase.

Rhymes and exercises in primary education go a long way in eliminating these cultural indoctrinations at home.
This is a fantastic experiment done by a teacher to make kids aware of racial discriminatory attitude they might pick up from home and elsewhere. With some modifications, such learning experiments can be conducted to inculcate tolerance for multiple viewpoints.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeK759FF84s (well worth watching)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Elliott

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 16 Jan 2015 13:11

UlanBatori wrote:Common sense or Finlandization?
I can't decide. On the one hand, I think it is uncivilized for anyone to abuse and insult the sacred beliefs of others' religions. OTOH..
Then again, the French have little sense of humor if they are the ones targeted by the humor, they are some of the most pompous oiseules on the planet, and the targets of much satire around the world. Is The Pink Panther sufficient provocation to murder, since it clearly insults the French? I wonder if it was popular in Algeria, Vietnam and The Congo?

Right now, it looks like the French reaction is to make sure that insults to the Prophet (pbuh) are published as widely as possible, in a clear F-U / in-ur-face /u-ur-musharraf gesture. What if the come out with a million different insults and paste them all over the nation? Esp. in the ghettos which are Islamic-majority? And all violent protest is smashed down? Will thousands of Believers feel the urge to go soosai?

Yeevil mongol raising hopes!

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 Jan 2015 15:38

KLNMurthy wrote: Depends on one's predisposition. Is one inclined to calmness or to taking affront and rage in the first place? And what part did one's religion and culture play in shaping that disposition?

I can see a person who is inclined to explode in rage when he feels his amour propre under threat. And then retroactively using the undeserved affront to the wonderful Mohammed as a way to justify and fuel that rage.

I guess. Since this is liable to go off-topic of STFUP, I'll just mention I just heard a radio interview of a man who spent two decades in an Illinois prison, just recently released when the governor commuted his sentence. It is likely he did not commit the crime he was convicted of. The BBC guy asks him, are you angry for what happened to you, and the man replies, "Being angry will not make me a better man".

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 Jan 2015 15:50

UlanBatori wrote:Common sense or Finlandization?
I can't decide. On the one hand, I think it is uncivilized for anyone to abuse and insult the sacred beliefs of others' religions. OTOH..

This apparently started years ago when the Dutch writer of a children's book was unable to find an illustrator for his children's book on Muhammad. This caught the attention of that Dutch publication, which decided to test whether people felt afraid to express their opinions about the founder of the religion of peace. There also was the murder of the filmmaker who "insulted" Islam. They solicited cartoons, and published them. Leading to another cycle of violence, and then the French took up the cause.

On this day, when Raif Badawi is undergoing a sentence of 50 lashes a week every week for 20 weeks followed by 10 years in prison for the crime of insulting Islam - insulting Islam on his blog. Among his insults are these: "You have the right to express and think whatever you want as you have the right to declare what you think about it, it is your right to believe or think, have the right to love and to hate, from your right to be a liberal or Islamist." "What we need in the Arab and Islamic societies is more to uphold the value of the individual and uphold freedom and respect for his thinking... States which are based on a religious basis confine their people in the circle of faith and fear."

Taking up the pen and drawing to counter this fear is far more civilized than taking up guns.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 16 Jan 2015 16:27

Momeens of the Islamic State of Pakistan are protesting in front of the French Consulate~~situated on Kashmir Highway just a 100m away from Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Slumabad~~ Krachi. Reportedly an AFP reporter/photographer has been injured in the proceedings.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jan 2015 16:32

CNN reported that a ~~gentleman~~ terrorist seen accompanying the Paris terrorist Hayat Boumedienne in an airport security camera footage was a Pakistani.

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 16 Jan 2015 16:42

Question for learned mo-learners, would water supply fail if electric and fuel supply or stock run out? Check the PEST watch (Pakistan Economic STress) dhaaga. Also why has ganja runaway to Saudi? Attempt to get free oil or assylum?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 16 Jan 2015 19:54

SSridhar wrote:US welcomes reports of Pakistan's plan to ban Haqqanis - Express Tribune
The United States said on Thursday it welcomed reports that Pakistan was planning to outlaw the Haqqani network and other militant groups linked to violent extremism.

Earlier on Thursday, The Express Tribune quoted senior security officials as saying that a formal announcement of the ban on the Haqqani network and 11 other militant organisations would be made in “coming days.”
OK, now that the proposed 'ban' was leaked days in advance, it would have given the JuD enough time to clean up its accounts etc. It is very much like the month-long notice that the PAF gives before starting to strafe the FATA badlands. This is an eye-wash and a fraud but this will be held against India by the US to force her to talk. India must demand to see further actions before even deciding anything on the talks issue.

The proposed 'ban' on the Haqqani shura is also a fraud because they moved into Kunar a long time back.

New wave of articles mention only Haqqanis but not LeT.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/ ... DA20150116

Pakistan has outlawed the Taliban-linked Haqqani network, officials said on Friday, days after U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry urged Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's government to fight groups that threaten Afghan, Indian and U.S. interests. Senior Pakistani government officials told Reuters a formal announcement of the ban would be made "within weeks". {Why the wait?}

No mention of LeT or JuD in that article.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 16 Jan 2015 20:00

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 82839.html

Reham Khan: Outrage in Pakistan as former BBC presenter who recently married Imran Khan is filmed cooking sausages

Reham Khan, the former BBC presenter who recently married ex-cricketer and politician Imran Khan, has sparked a backlash in Pakistan after footage emerged of her cooking and selling pork sausages.

The 41-year-old TV star, who is herself of British-Pakistani decent, can purportedly be seen frying the religiously restricted meat at a country fair in West Sussex for the BBC South Today show in 2011, The Times reports.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 16 Jan 2015 20:18

Understandable. The RAPE would consider this to be cannibalism!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Jan 2015 20:19

Anujan wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 82839.html

Reham Khan: Outrage in Pakistan as former BBC presenter who recently married Imran Khan is filmed cooking sausages

Reham Khan, the former BBC presenter who recently married ex-cricketer and politician Imran Khan, has sparked a backlash in Pakistan after footage emerged of her cooking and selling pork sausages.

The 41-year-old TV star, who is herself of British-Pakistani decent, can purportedly be seen frying the religiously restricted meat at a country fair in West Sussex for the BBC South Today show in 2011, The Times reports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToqGHsQuThk

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 16 Jan 2015 20:22

Anujan wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 82839.html

Reham Khan: Outrage in Pakistan as former BBC presenter who recently married Imran Khan is filmed cooking sausages

Reham Khan, the former BBC presenter who recently married ex-cricketer and politician Imran Khan, has sparked a backlash in Pakistan after footage emerged of her cooking and selling pork sausages.

The 41-year-old TV star, who is herself of British-Pakistani decent, can purportedly be seen frying the religiously restricted meat at a country fair in West Sussex for the BBC South Today show in 2011, The Times reports.

Yaa Allah nothing is halal in this material world

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 16 Jan 2015 21:43

Anujan wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 82839.html

Reham Khan: Outrage in Pakistan as former BBC presenter who recently married Imran Khan is filmed cooking sausages

Reham Khan, the former BBC presenter who recently married ex-cricketer and politician Imran Khan, has sparked a backlash in Pakistan after footage emerged of her cooking and selling pork sausages.

The 41-year-old TV star, who is herself of British-Pakistani decent, can purportedly be seen frying the religiously restricted meat at a country fair in West Sussex for the BBC South Today show in 2011, The Times reports.

Anujan Ji :

QEM Jinnah regularly had BACON & Eggs for Breakfast, HAM Sandwiches for Lunch, PORK Sausages at Tea (In public at the MONGINIS Restaurant where he was having Tea with M C Chagla - Stanley Wolpert's "Jinnah of Pakistan") and PORK Chops at Dinner.

So, if QEM Jinnah can eat porcine products why stop Reham Khan?
Cheers

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 16 Jan 2015 22:14

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 909793.cms
Pakistan religious groups observe black day

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 16 Jan 2015 22:19

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 909500.cms
2 Pakistani-Americans charged with attempt to murder US Marshals

WASHINGTON: Two Pakistani-American brothers, locked up since 2012 on terror charges, have been accused of attempting to kill two US Marshals while they escorted them within the courthouse complex in Miami, prosecutors said.

Raees Alam Qazi, 22, and Sheheryar Alam Qazi, 32, were previously charged in November 2012 with conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists and conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction (explosives).
...
Federal prosecutors said that on April 8, 2014, while being moved within the US Courthouse complex, they simultaneously motioned with their heads to cause the Deputy Marshals to look at the ceiling, the duo then simultaneously punched the Deputies in the face and struggled with them.

Further, while struggling with the Deputy US Marshals, they attempted to use potentially lethal force on them while exclaiming 'Allahu Akbar', an Arabic exhortation meaning 'God is Great'.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 16 Jan 2015 22:28

Bangers galore indeed.

I'd slip her the sausage.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 16 Jan 2015 22:30

UlanBatori wrote:Understandable. The RAPE would consider this to be cannibalism!

dada · Post by **dada** » 16 Jan 2015 22:41

# shiv

quote :
I don't believe the actual inculcation is in these sermons per se. the sermons onlyreinforce attituded instilled in childhood, at home, in mothers ares
1. v r d best
2. rest r worthy of contempt
3. prophet can't be insulted
4. To insult means death

These are basic, fundamental things written into the minds of children who have nothing else in their mittle minds. Children are born Muslims because they have no other faith in their minds and can have the only faith hard wired for life."

==
That explains what has actually happened with Hafeez Sayeed, the LeT supremo. Many of the close relatives (6/7 sisters of his mother) were massacred in the partition riots in 1947. Muslim mothers do play a prominent role in the upbringing of kids in the formative years. His Father had no time for him (busy in making the ends meet). In one of his interviews , he mentioned that his mother use to cry a lot , for her sisters.
The "revenge seed" probably was planted in those years.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 16 Jan 2015 22:56

Pakistan reporter slapped Hafiz Saeed on his Jamat Ud Dawa misdoings. watc at .05 secnd Ham-Id actually wants "more Islam" to solve problem of Islam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4K7_pEji-0

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 16 Jan 2015 23:05

He will be bull cattled if he says he wants "less Islam" due to instant Murtadification. Bakis have a one way ticket to purity.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 16 Jan 2015 23:39

A_Gupta wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote: Depends on one's predisposition. Is one inclined to calmness or to taking affront and rage in the first place? And what part did one's religion and culture play in shaping that disposition?

I can see a person who is inclined to explode in rage when he feels his amour propre under threat. And then retroactively using the undeserved affront to the wonderful Mohammed as a way to justify and fuel that rage.
I guess. Since this is liable to go off-topic of STFUP, I'll just mention I just heard a radio interview of a man who spent two decades in an Illinois prison, just recently released when the governor commuted his sentence. It is likely he did not commit the crime he was convicted of. The BBC guy asks him, are you angry for what happened to you, and the man replies, "Being angry will not make me a better man".

Let me bring it back on topic of STFUP by pointing out that pakistan-ka-matlab is exactly the rejection of the whole concept of becoming a better man or nation as the case may be. There are no national objectives or dreams other than occupying strategic space and extracting tribute from the world. Whether that is related to Islamic thinking is another debate.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 16 Jan 2015 23:43

General Raw-heel highlights Kashmir in London
Equal Equal Ka Sequel

LONDON- Chief of Army Staff General Raheel Sharif today stressed for better ties with India and urged that negotiations between the two countries over Kashmir must be initiated on an equal basis.COAS spoke at the International Institute of Strategic Studies in London, Director-General Inter Services Public Relations Major General Asim Bajwa tweeted.General Raheel Sharif highlighted the importance of Kashmiris for long term peace in South Asia. During his speech, COAS said that Pakistan was now focusing on the war against militancy.He said implementation of the National Action Plan is underway in Pakistan. All militants are being targeted, he clarified.He also urged the international community to be aware of Pakistan’s security scenariO

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 16 Jan 2015 23:50

Anti -Islam policies of west could plunge world into 3rd world war, warns Siraj
Alhamdulillah,Leader Of OoiMaa, Khalifia of Lifafas, Pakistan have Spoken

LAHORE: Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) Chief Sirajul Haq warned that the anti -Islam policies of the west could plunge the world into the third world war.Addressing the Friday congregation at Mansoora, Sirajul Haq said that the respect ( Idolatry)of the Holy Prophet (SAW) was an essential part of a Muslim’s faith. Thousand of the faithful across the country came on roads Friday to express their anguish over the fresh publication of blasphemous caricatures by a French Weekly and vowed to render every sacrifice to safeguard the sanctity of the Holy Prophet (SAW).He also stressed upon Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to call for an emergency meeting of the Muslim rulers to lodge protest with the French government on this score and to stress upon the United Nations to frame laws ensuring respect for all the Prophets of Allah and all the revealed books.Earlier addressing the Friday congregation at Mansoora, Haq deplored that Europe and the west had always patronized those carrying out acts of blasphemy of the Holy Prophet (SAW.Sirajul Haq appreciated the adoption of a unanimous resolution by the National Assembly against blasphemy and the joint protest by the NA members on the issue.He expressed the hope that the peoples elected representatives at federal and provincial levels would rise above party considerations and join the Million March being held next Friday. (PPI)

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 16 Jan 2015 23:50

Paki Col. Hamid Gul has always wanted more Islam in Pakistan, which has made Pakistan this little piece of islamic heaven on Planet Earth. Let all Indians pledge to have a moment's silence everytime they are in a pakistan to appreciate Hamid Gul's intellectual leadership in pakistan.

BTW, This is just BS propaganda to go along with the "ban" of LeT in Pakistan today --- don't just believe what you see or read in paki media. Place it in context and you will see what's behind the "news" in pakistan.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 16 Jan 2015 23:53

A_Gupta wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:Common sense or Finlandization?
I can't decide. On the one hand, I think it is uncivilized for anyone to abuse and insult the sacred beliefs of others' religions. OTOH..
This apparently started years ago when the Dutch writer of a children's book was unable to find an illustrator for his children's book on Muhammad. This caught the attention of that Dutch publication, which decided to test whether people felt afraid to express their opinions about the founder of the religion of peace. There also was the murder of the filmmaker who "insulted" Islam. They solicited cartoons, and published them. Leading to another cycle of violence, and then the French took up the cause.

On this day, when Raif Badawi is undergoing a sentence of 50 lashes a week every week for 20 weeks followed by 10 years in prison for the crime of insulting Islam - insulting Islam on his blog. Among his insults are these: "You have the right to express and think whatever you want as you have the right to declare what you think about it, it is your right to believe or think, have the right to love and to hate, from your right to be a liberal or Islamist." "What we need in the Arab and Islamic societies is more to uphold the value of the individual and uphold freedom and respect for his thinking... States which are based on a religious basis confine their people in the circle of faith and fear."

Taking up the pen and drawing to counter this fear is far more civilized than taking up guns.

Exactly. I too am coming around to the opinion that the only way to counter this is massive worldwide support for those who are traumatized by these oiseules. Where is the outrage against the torture of Mr. Badawi? Where are the 'sanctions' against these mofos?

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 16 Jan 2015 23:59

what happens if someone makes an un-blowup-able nukular bum proof 130ft tall statue of the poobah and installs it on an island? Attack of the lemmings? Will it replace al-hudge?

Why has it not happened? Doesnt seem hard to do, a bit of stone and titanium and kryptonite, there is a lady liberty already waiting for gentleman poobah.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 17 Jan 2015 00:03

Need an enclosed lagoon around it, with an Amazon/Florida-Everglades theme: piranha and crocodiles.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 17 Jan 2015 00:10

whatan super idea, shreemanji. Build up this super large idol..err..I mean statue of Mohammed and one of allah too (why not) in a remote island and mine the entire place, throw in some tropical fishes like the Piranha to keep the place aesthetically beautiful. It will be a compact self-sustaining jihadi eliminator, much like your average mosquito eliminator that stands silently in the background. Flood the internet with pictures of this statue along with GPS coordinates of the said island, and then watch them all come in waves. sheer genius onlee.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 17 Jan 2015 00:22

UlanBatori wrote:Need an enclosed lagoon around it, with an Amazon/Florida-Everglades theme: piranha and crocodiles.

Maybe Hindus can build a temple with Mohammed statue and start doing puja, the way we built one for Sonia Gandhi (pbuh).

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 17 Jan 2015 00:23

pankajs wrote:
johneeG wrote:a) cold-war politics(Bhaarath joined with Soviets, so Pakistan was taken under the wing of US).
I have been meaning to comment on this aspect after watching many American commentators on Indian-US relations but kept forgetting.

Most Americans too would state something similar e.g A mild one would be "Indians went with the Soviets and American with Pakistanis". To me that always *sounded* like "BECAUSE India went with Soviets America was FORCED to go with Pakistan" i.e the past state of the relationship was India's fault.

My *understanding*, and I could be wrong, is that Pak *offered* itself to the Americans but the Americans wanted India as a partner in our region. When India kept fending off the Americans with its no-aligned rhetoric the Americans finally went with Pakistan. India always had a socialistic leaning but it was pushed firmly into the Soviet orbit only after the US-Pak partnership and BECAUSE of that partnership.

So from my POV the history of India-US relationship should be stated as "US forged a close partnership with Pakistan forcing India to ally with the Soviets".

To me that sounds substantially different from how it is presented by the US commentators and left unchallenged by Indians. That is a *subtle* shifting of blame if there is to be blame that is. Would like others to comment on this or am I making a mountain of a molehill???

JLN seems to have been a pro-western guy. But, for some reason, he started turning towards Russia. But, he was also under the influence of the west. So, when JLN led Bhaarath, Bhaarath was on both sides(west and russia) with more tilt towards Russia. So, the west had more tilt towards Pakistan. Yes, Pakistan offered itself to US and perhaps even JLN would have offered Bhaarath to west but for some reason Russia started influencing him and this russian influence acted as a off-set against the western influence. So, it was a sort of non-alignment. But, the reality was that Bhaarath depended on US a lot in JLN days. Russia itself was poor in those days. So, Russia helped Bhaarath with communist propaganda while US gave aid.

When JLN was leading Bhaarath, Bhaarath and Pakistan were not necessarily enemies. In 1948, it was so-called Hindhu nationalist Patel who took the lead on Kashmir. Note how JLN diffused the whole issue by going to ~~west~~ UN. After the death of Patel, there were no wars between Bhaarath and Pakistan until the death of JLN. So, during this era, Pakistan and Bhaarath were under western influence. The only difference was that Russia also had influence on JLN, so JLN could not become a puppet of west due to counter influence of Russia.

It seems to me that Shasthri was neither under western influence nor under the influence of Russia. Infact, the war started by Bakis may have been to weaken the position of Shasthri. But, he managed to win the war. However, the poor guy died suddenly after winning a war. Look at the co-incident: Shastri died in Russia and a pro-russian PM came to power.

Indhira was pro-russian and anti-west. This was the period when the support of west to Pakistan started increasing a lot. After the break up of Pakistan, Pakistan seems to have become a colony of US. And the final straw seems to have come during the musharraf rule.

When Pakistan became a complete colony of US in mushy's rule, the local pakistanis resented it. In pakistan, all emotions are expressed under the flag of islam. The same applies to revolt against the US colonization of Pakistan. The extremists were always powerful in Pakistan. They had been armed and radicalized during the proxy war against Soviets in Afghanisthan. During Mushy era, they were the ones who used American colonization as an excuse to target Mushy and they started setting up their own fiefdoms.

(What is irony is that Mushy was thrown out by supreme court judge who was also hyped up by US. A more interesting question is why did US allow mushy to be thrown out if he was so pro-US?).

It seems to me that Kiya-nahi felt that Mushy ceded too much space to US. So, he allowed a free reign to the extremists hoping that they would counter the US influence. However, the free reign to extremists has its own implications.

The extremists became so powerful that they had set up their own fiefdoms. This had already happened during mushy era itself. But after Kiya-nahi time, it became very powerful. PA lost writ in many areas of the country. Private militias and liberation armies gained ground. Of course, US continues to have lot of influence in Pakistan. In short, Pakistan has become a place where private militias rule and with lot of influence of US.

Now, Raheel Shareef seems to be claiming that he will start a fight back against the extremism and take back the control of the country. Is it really possible? Is shareef sincere? Well, it is to be seen. Already shareef has done a soft coup. There may be a hard coup anytime within 3 months. The claim by Shareef seems to be that the civilians are not in a position to take on the extremists due to fear and only the martial law can take them on.

As for Bhaarath, it was always a very important place and west seems to have tried to maintain a friendly in Bhaarath. Non-friendly regimes seem to end abruptly, so far. The most friendly regime of US in Bhaarath was that of Manmohan. I don't think any Govt will be able to replicate the feats of Manmohan in being US-friendly. The only way Bhaarath could have become more pro-US was by being a Pakistan(i.e. US colony).

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 17 Jan 2015 00:25

KLNMurthy wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:Need an enclosed lagoon around it, with an Amazon/Florida-Everglades theme: piranha and crocodiles.
Maybe Hindus can build a temple with Mohammed statue and start doing puja, the way we built one for Sonia Gandhi (pbuh).

No, Hindhus should not do it. But, Hindhus can encourage Bhaarathiya sub-continent muslims to do it. It is a first phase of Ghar wapasi. Muslims should have no problem with worshiping idols because it is done in mecca.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 17 Jan 2015 01:07

Peregrine wrote: QEM Jinnah regularly had BACON & Eggs for Breakfast, HAM Sandwiches for Lunch, PORK Sausages at Tea (In public at the MONGINIS Restaurant where he was having Tea with M C Chagla - Stanley Wolpert's "Jinnah of Pakistan") and PORK Chops at Dinner.

Was there something wrong with his metabolism? With all that fat going into him, he still remained an anorexic stick. May be it was the booze and cigarettes - the other two haram things he had enjoyed.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 17 Jan 2015 02:16

The flatulent paki army pakjabi ahole writes some more incomprehensible cr@p defending the paki army.
And this appears in this "journal" called "India Seminar" run by some Indians in New Delhi -- thankfully, this journal seems to be financially sinking. small mercies.

http://www.india-seminar.com/2014/664/6 ... haider.htm

In the middle of all the obstreperous and vacuous prose, the same old line is trotted out:

I am aware of how Indians look at the issue and how they argue it, i.e., the adversarial relations between Pakistan and India are a doing of the Pakistani military rather than the other way round. However, this argument fails, even if unwittingly, to see India as it is – and how its actions are seen by its neighbours, especially Pakistan, in terms both of the actual operationalization of India’s capabilities as also its perceived intentions.

That Pakistani army does what it does because insecurity about India and a hostile India with a small heart, according to this loathesome turd Ejaz Haider....same old paki p!ss in a new bottle.

And this:

The important point in this ‘India factor’ is not so much a fear that India could conquer and hold Pakistani territory, though at the tactical level that cannot be dismissed, but that India should not be allowed to get into a position where it can use a mix of non-kinetic and kinetic means to coerce Pakistan into accepting its terms. There is empirical evidence that India has reached a state of peace with only those neighbours who have accepted New Delhi’s terms for peace.

Well, suck it up, Ejaz, along with your daily dose of lukewarm goat semen.

Turns out that these are the New Delhi Indians running India Seminar :

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 001_1.html

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 17 Jan 2015 03:06

Tuvaluan wrote:whatan super idea, shreemanji. Build up this super large idol..err..I mean statue of Mohammed and one of allah too (why not) in a remote island and mine the entire place, throw in some tropical fishes like the Piranha to keep the place aesthetically beautiful. It will be a compact self-sustaining jihadi eliminator, much like your average mosquito eliminator that stands silently in the background. Flood the internet with pictures of this statue along with GPS coordinates of the said island, and then watch them all come in waves. sheer genius onlee.

With Frolicking Hoors in Background as Bait and The Aliens in AVP As DwarPaals?