India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 17 Jan 2015 09:57

arshyam wrote: To their credit, Jewish Americans are effective in shaping US foreign policy to benefit Israel. Can we say the same of Indian Americans? Indian Americans are represented by the likes of Bobby Jindal, Nikki Haley and of course, the great hero from Manhattan, Mr. Bharara, who don't think twice before dropping their heritage and/or changing their culture so as to gain acceptability in the US. The abbreviation MUTU or MATA comes to mind.

Much can be said about the effectiveness or lack thereof of both Indian diaspora and homies back in muluk and it's as pointless to refer to folks like Jindal or Bharara as it is to point out a Sardesai or A Roy. BTW where did you get that they represent Indian Americans? You need to educate yourself before commenting so glibly. Don't know about UK or Oz, but in the US, the Indian diaspora has kept its head down and shoulder to the wheel, emerging as the most successful and richest immigrant group. It's only lately that this group has started to push for the Indic sphere and the results should be evident soon enough. Regarding their worth or effectiveness, look no further than the opinion of the Chief Jingo In Charge, Narendra Modi. Other opinions are irrelevant and pale in comparison.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 17 Jan 2015 10:18

Jewish-American numbers were much larger in 1944 time frame (end of WWII) than the miniscule (sic) Indian-American numbers till late 1960s. As the numbers increase, we will also have similar clout on American polity and Indo-American relations (or so one hopes).

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 17 Jan 2015 11:03

ramana wrote:Instead of Sepoy, we should use Gungadin to make it very clear.

Gungadin is the best way of describing a person who is so abala (helpless), so moodh budhi (dense) that he cannot even speak the truth or counter a falsehood, much less do something about it. A deen that makes one Gunga. Somebody who got handed over a cracked mirror.

Gangudin OTOH seems good for our internal usage. A deen of the river Ganga.

Negro for most Indians is merely an identifier with no political usage of it, whatsoever. Nigger is something we learn very late in our lives after reading the English Media in India which ususally faithfully tows the line of western media. But since proportionately few people read the English media so I would not be surprised if for the larger more relevant majority even Nigger is merely an identifier.

Black/White cannot validly be used as an identifier within Indian contexts because our concept of Black and White are not in contrast to each other. Rather the continuum in the color palate is observed, acknowledged, recognized. We had to invent 'Wheatish' to describe a large part of our population which is Gehuna (like wheat). Gora, Kala, Sanvla, Genhua are not about politics in India. Instead they serve a real purpose here in India. Kaalu/Kali/Kallu/Kallan in challu bhasha, are often terms of endearment. There is no Pila/Yellow skin in India. A Japanese in India would be a Gora or a Genhua.

The descriptions are baised in favour of north Indian (cow belt) linguistic usages but I am sure other parts of India would have similar usages. Even if they differ they would still not be about contrast rather the colors would be recognized as a part of the whole.

.............................

About RIs and NRIs there should be a cooperative relationship which in any case there is. NaMo has only recognized this. Today NRIs contribute more to the economy and society of India then FDI ever can. There is a massive Indian diaspora that rivals the populations of most of the UN member states. And the NRIs who have went out for work reasons leave at least 3/4 family members behind within India. NaMo and Hindu Sangathans have recognized this and that is why the moral duty taken up to declare India as the refuge for all Hindus (as defined by Hindu Sangathans). Such a stance will give rise to a different strategy then what we are used to. Those outside are already stuck with India (families, properties, socio-religious connections) and hence India too will have to take up responsibility for those outside. There will be new challenges but there will be new opportunities too which will require new types of solutions and new thought pattern with the same old processes.

It is when we do not see this cooperative relationship that people tend to go to unjustified extremes. But it would be stupid to simply start speaking english in local language calling each other nigger (house or field). Indians are not used to this distinction. It is not evidenced in India. You can easily be compromised outside on the fields in India exactly like a compromised man inside the house. And you can easily take up ownership outside or inside the house. A large population base ensures that the western epithets end up useless in India. While this means that the usage of western epithets is not going to understood by Indians and hence ideally should not be used. It also at the same time means that a large number of people are not going to be able to restrict themselves from using these. So if people get unduly excited about using it or resisting it - well it is the cracked mirror they carry. So cool down.

The new relationship that NaMo and team are trying to achieve will have more urgent and far more important aspects to it then just a 'mummy, mujhe house nigger keh diya when I am a field nigger'. For example the new concord casts a responsibility to stand up for those outside India and in that light should we have a role in Middle East. Diaspora in Middle east is Hindu, Christian, Muslims (Shia and Sunni) and Atheists and thus should we be bothered about it in some manner.

So get serious. Stop crying. There is a 1000 years worth of crying that we have kept at bay. Not for this nonsense. Gali deni hai to shudh Hindi mein do. At least you will be faithful to Matri-Bhasha. I would be willing to help in this regard

.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 17 Jan 2015 12:29

arshyam wrote:Also, where was this diaspora when DK was arrested in New York? When the daughter of a consular official was arrested and released without a word of regret? When some (Indian American?) dude went and filed a useless case against two sitting Indian PMs coinciding with their visit? When the Bhopal case was thrown out? When a former President was frisked in violation of protocol?

Look at American Hindu Foundation. They were at the forefront protesting against most of the referenced events.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 17 Jan 2015 12:38

Hitesh wrote:Look at American Hindu Foundation. They were at the forefront protesting against most of the referenced events.

Precisely. The diaspora is not a monolithic entity. It consists of people of varied backgrounds and proclivities. Some favourably inclined, other not so favourable or even outright hostile towards India and Indians.

The real value lies in tapping and encouraging the favourable component to grow, strengthen and flourish. I suppose NaMo understands this better than most- having being on the receiving end of fondness and hostility in significant measures from different constituents of the diaspora.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 17 Jan 2015 15:59

My 2 cents here. I have found NRIs to be generally very kind in nature and of course brilliant in respective fields of specialization. ///i would say that. as an example, science can be mis-projected to talk about religion/God/monopoly/exclusivity/blabla - although science is primarily about science. Hence, it is better to have mutual trust and not be bothered by temporary misinterpretations. It is better to sort out such issues, for example, knowing how Jews from Israel has made it well (not saying Indians haven't) in various fields, and such and such ways and methods.

Unsavory personalities, who go to America and create a scene against NRIs like some controversy, should be just ignored altogether. At times, it is kind of intriguing, for example, when reading about California textbook controversy and interference from interests groups.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 17 Jan 2015 19:12

Amber G. wrote:... As someone pointed out at some time (I remember in 60's 70's) "Black" was more offensive that "Negro".

MLK in his speech used the term, and there is, just to give one example, United Negro Fund.

The term is less used now than before..

The shift occurred in the mid-sixties after Huey Newton and Bobby Seale formed the Black Panther Party and took over the narrative for a while. Next up was Bill Cosby starring in 'I Spy'. By the 70s, 'Negro' was out and 'Black' was in. In the 1980s (after 'Roots') the most acceptable term became 'African American'.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 17 Jan 2015 20:32

Yes Its Gunga Din! This best describes the Macaulay anti Hindu Hindus of India. the left "Intellectuals" and The ones that work for NTDV, the Outlook, TOIlet, HT etc..

Quote - Kipling

But when it comes to slaughter
You will do your work on water,
An’ you’ll lick the bloomin’ boots of ’im that’s got it.
Now in Injia’s sunny clime,
Where I used to spend my time
A-servin’ of ’Er Majesty the Queen,
Of all them blackfaced crew
The finest man I knew
Was our regimental bhisti, Gunga Din,
He was ‘Din! Din! Din!
‘You limpin’ lump o’ brick-dust, Gunga Din!
‘Hi! Slippy hitherao
‘Water, get it! Panee lao,
‘You squidgy-nosed old idol, Gunga Din.’

We shouted ‘Harry By!’
Till our throats were bricky-dry,
Then we wopped ’im ’cause ’e couldn’t serve us all.
It was ‘Din! Din! Din!
‘You ’eathen, where the mischief ’ave you been?
‘You put some juldee in it
‘Or I’ll marrow you this minute
‘If you don’t fill up my helmet, Gunga Din!’

An’ I’ll get a swig in hell from Gunga Din!
Yes, Din! Din! Din!
You Lazarushian-leather Gunga Din!
Though I’ve belted you and flayed you,
By the livin’ Gawd that made you,
You’re a better man than I am, Gunga Din!

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 17 Jan 2015 21:30

^^ mofo Kipling has truly described a house slave. Gungadin is like the American Jim Crow poem which is very similar in nature.

I cringe when I read both these 'works'. That there exist apologists for a mofo like Kipling means that the 19th century race theories are still alive.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 17 Jan 2015 22:23

Gunga Din is used as a racial slur against Indians in the US. BRFites, especially a senior member like ramana shouldn't be promoting its usage, whatever the context.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Jan 2015 22:25

LokeshC, Have you looked at Louisiana proposals prior to the 1860-65 US Civil War?

Essentially they wanted to end slavery and get this, import indentured Indian labor as the British were doing in the Caribbean region.

Do look it up.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 17 Jan 2015 22:25

IpTL There is no discussion of India-US Relations on this thread, just

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 17 Jan 2015 23:39

all die-ass-pour-a want is US-India relationship, and not India-US relationship. there is a big difference.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 17 Jan 2015 23:46

ramana ji,

In some Abraham Lincoln movies there are some oblique reference to that, but they conveniently ignored to mention about importing *Indian* indentured laborers from the Carribeans (I would have stopped the movie right there and switched on google chacha had they mentioned it explicitly).

If they did end up doing that, Brishits would have offered Indians as slaves, with the income generated going back to Brishitland. Brishits were not able to compete with the American South because of slavery. I am sure the mofos would have gladly joined in (300 million strong labor force).

Would have been another dark chapter for Indians.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 17 Jan 2015 23:52

This is an OT rant, but please bear with me.

Compare this with the Gunga Din poem above:
http://www.ferris.edu/htmls/news/jimcrow/who.htm

"Come listen all you galls and boys,
I'm going to sing a little song,
My name is Jim Crow.
Weel about and turn about and do jis so,
Eb'ry time I weel about I jump Jim Crow."

Specifically:

Of all them blackfaced crew
The finest man I knew
Was our regimental bhisti, Gunga Din,
He was ‘Din! Din! Din!
‘You limpin’ lump o’ brick-dust, Gunga Din!
‘Hi! Slippy hitherao
‘Water, get it! Panee lao,
‘You squidgy-nosed old idol, Gunga Din.’

Kipling and the Jim Crow racists are birds of the same feather. I just get annoyed when some Indian uses Kipling's work in any way other than to point out the racist mofo that he was.

Kipling was brought up by an Indian maid, from day 1. Not unlike "The Helps" or Black mamas that brought up rich white kids in the west. His poem then pays tribute to the Indians like so:

An' a bullet come an' drilled the beggar clean. 70
'E put me safe inside,
An' just before 'e died:
"I 'ope you liked your drink," sez Gunga Din.
So I'll meet 'im later on
In the place where 'e is gone—
Where it's always double drill and no canteen;
'E'll be squattin' on the coals
Givin' drink to pore damned souls,
An' I'll get a swig in Hell from Gunga Din!

An Indian IS a beggar, even if he saved his life. You can imagine the love and gratitude he would have shown to the maid who brought him up. Mofo goes farther than that when he says that heathen Indians will go to hell and be squatting on coals and he will end up there as well again to be loyally served by Gunga Din.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Jan 2015 02:13

LokeshC wrote:^^ mofo Kipling has truly described a house slave. Gungadin is like the American Jim Crow poem which is very similar in nature.

I cringe when I read both these 'works'. That there exist apologists for a mofo like Kipling means that the 19th century race theories are still alive.

There is abook called Soldier Sahib which pukka colonials luvv but apparently whuch shows the true faceof brit empire and wwhich india banned. Apparently full of how they treated indians etc.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Jan 2015 02:18

Gungadin is supposedly a sarcastic look at how Indians were badly treated by the Brits.

Its basically a cavalier admission about how british soldiers treated their native soldiers, and support personnel.

E carried me away
To where a dooli lay,
An' a bullet come an' drilled the beggar clean. 70
'E put me safe inside,
An' just before 'e died:
"I 'ope you liked your drink," sez Gunga Din.
So I'll meet 'im later on
In the place where 'e is gone— 75
Where it's always double drill and no canteen;
'E'll be squattin' on the coals
Givin' drink to pore damned souls,
An' I'll get a swig in Hell from Gunga Din!

Din! Din! Din! 80
You Lazarushian-leather Gunga Din!
Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you,
By the livin' Gawd that made you,
You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!

Wiki.

The poem is a rhyming narrative from the point of view of an English soldier in India, about an Indian water-bearer (a "Bhishti") who saves the soldier's life but is soon shot and killed. In the final three lines, the soldier regrets the abuse he dealt to Din and admits that Din is the better man of the two for sacrificing his own life to save another. The poem was published as one of the set of martial poems called the Barrack-Room Ballads.

In contrast to Kipling's later poem "The White Man's Burden," "Gunga Din" is named after the Indian, portraying him as a heroic character who is not afraid to face danger on the battlefield as he tends to wounded men. The English soldiers who order Din around and beat him for not bringing them water fast enough are presented as being callous and shallow, and ultimately inferior to him.

Although "Din" is frequently pronounced to rhyme with "bin" /ˌɡʌŋɡə ˈdɪn/, the rhymes within the poem (as well as the pronunciation in the 1939 film) make it clear that it should be pronounced /ˈdin/ to rhyme with "green".

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 18 Jan 2015 02:29

LokeshC wrote: An Indian IS a beggar, even if he saved his life. You can imagine the love and gratitude he would have shown to the maid who brought him up. Mofo goes farther than that when he says that heathen Indians will go to hell and be squatting on coals and he will end up there as well again to be loyally served by Gunga Din.

Destination, hell, same for both - reason different.
Gunga Din squats on coals for his heathen belief
Colonial soldier(CS) goes there for his actions, Karma!

See the irony of Karma and Belief - Ganga Din is all Karma and CS all belief
Even the devil agrees who's the better man

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Jan 2015 02:32

This Gungadin verse BTW pretty much shows colonial attitudes in full flow.
White good. Black= dirty hide.

An' for all 'is dirty 'ide,
'E was white, clear white, inside 45
When 'e went to tend the wounded under fire

Kipling is being honest here. We should be glad that his account survives and has not been whitewashed or disappeared.

See the reputation of the British soldier in India (Page35, Page 34 talks of the martial race BS and its origins)
https://books.google.co.in/books?id=39U ... er&f=false

Indians referred to as "golliwogs and niggers".
The Welsh private who glowingly talks of all this "rapes and beatings to deaths were not all uncommon; to keep the bleeding natives down; officers turned a blind eye". Was this turd.
http://www.amazon.com/Old-Soldier-Sahib ... 1843425580

See the glowing reviews & not even mentions the ugliness laid open in these accounts.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6848 ... dier-sahib

Mike
Feb 15, 2013 Mike rated it 4 of 5 stars
An old regular soldier's tale of life as a Private in the Royal Welch Fusiliers. Enlistment to service in India pre Great War. An excellent record of a vanished way of life. Clearly no angel, but an honest and just reporter of his many adventures. Readers of a delicate disposition may blanch at some of the descriptions applied to the Indian civillians in this pre PC era.
(A brave man too. Called up as a reservist for the Great War, Frank Richards served 1914-1918, receiving the DCM and MM, refusi..

"Honest and Just", "readers of a delicate disposition", "pre PC era"... not racist era, not normal people. Says it all, really.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 18 Jan 2015 02:49

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/01/13/dow ... outh-asia/

Because of the failure of the United States to live up to its past promises to force a real Pakistani crackdown on terrorists personally responsible for attacks on Indian soil (much less to eliminate these groups outright), Indian leaders are less likely to trust U.S. officials the next time terrorists strike, and more likely to resort to unilateral military moves of their own. That increases the potential for cross-border violence maybe even including nuclear war.

The United States has high stakes in the Indo-Pakistani relationship. Given the enormous populations of the region, the human costs of another war would be staggering even if it never crosses the nuclear threshold. An Indo-Pakistani crisis would distract Pakistan’s attention from its fight against the Taliban. It would send debilitating shockwaves through India’s economy and undermine its near-term prospects for becoming a major U.S. strategic partner in Asia, a vision shared by the past three American presidents.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Jan 2015 03:13

Thats as open a threat as any one has seen.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 18 Jan 2015 05:14

So it begins
US asks for a no-fly zone over Rajpath on R-Day, India says no

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 18 Jan 2015 05:33

asking this guy to be chief guest was a security nightmare , probably why GOI always avoided

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 18 Jan 2015 05:47

krishnan wrote:asking this guy to be chief guest was a security nightmare , probably why GOI always avoided

There are farticles already out there: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... you-there/ {trash talk}

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 926812.cms {doubling up man power}
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 917636.cms { 15,000 CCTVs }

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jan 2015 06:00

krisna wrote: Some background on sofosbuvir- some experts are saying it is a blockbuster drug revolutionizing hepatitis care.
Has very good results in trials curing viral hepatitis in upwards of 90% with minimal side effects.

Very expensive .
Due to this drug NY state has mandated every patient in middle age be screened for it. Patients have to be offered the option of getting it done. We have to document it.

A bit out of my line but apparently, of the 5 variants of hep C, it is very effective against two and those two are common in India.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jan 2015 06:12

Karan M wrote:Gungadin is supposedly a sarcastic look at how Indians were badly treated by the Brits.

Its basically a cavalier admission about how british soldiers treated their native soldiers, and support personnel.

Although "Din" is frequently pronounced to rhyme with "bin" /ˌɡʌŋɡə ˈdɪn/, the rhymes within the poem (as well as the pronunciation in the 1939 film) make it clear that it should be pronounced /ˈdin/ to rhyme with "green".

Typical British confusion, ignorance and total lack of need to give a damn - the name "Gunga Deen" is Hindu-Muslim mix - a bit like Billy Bunter's "Hurree Jamshed Ram Singh". If Indians wrote fiction about Britain and had a character called "Sir Mohammad Michael" it would be the same thing.

I am halfway through Edward Said's "Orientalism". The "scholars" of the day whom the generals learned from were all racist, so little wonder that the oiseaule foot soldier was no better.

What I find fascinating is that colonialism folded up and the Europeans went back to their countries with not a chirp being spoken about the racism and discrimination. That is because the "natives" like me and my parents were mentally colonized Gunga Deens, programmed to admire. We have to wash that off and expose the facts.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 18 Jan 2015 06:38

shiv wrote:.
....

What I find fascinating is that colonialism folded up and the Europeans went back to their countries with not a chirp being spoken about the racism and discrimination. ...

But the empire strikes back with the natives of colonies emigrating to the motherland and becoming pissed off as they realize they can't assimilate.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 18 Jan 2015 06:44

shiv wrote: What I find fascinating is that colonialism folded up and the Europeans went back to their countries with not a chirp being spoken about the racism and discrimination. That is because the "natives" like me and my parents were mentally colonized Gunga Deens, programmed to admire. We have to wash that off and expose the facts.

MacaulayPutra is also an apt word. Nehru and Gandhi were groomed by the Brishits for exactly such a role. A violent freedom struggle would mean quite a lot of Brishit blood will be spilled. Hence the N G dynasty was brought up to hijack any REAL freedom struggle (which is always violent if one agrees the arguments of Fanon Frantz). They provided a smooth exit strategy for the Brishits in case the shit hits the fan, which it did thanks to Hitler.

Looking at Nehru Gandhi DIE-Nasty reaction to the violent struggle for Independence (Bose, Bhagath Singh, Savarkar, RIN 'mutiny') it is very clear that they effectively hijacked any possibility of the movement catching steam.

After the exit of the Brishits, the DIE-Nasty propagated the colonial systems without thinking through the consequences, which means that they thought it was OK that Brishit whites were "superior" than brown SDREs, they had totally brought into being ok with the state of Brishits being their masters. While we find the concept utterly disgusting, they were completely at home with it.

What would happen when such people write text books: They will find things like racism as "ahh, thats normal nothing odd about it and its true: Brishits are superior onleee". That argument will be used to NOT write about racism and Brishit atrocities. That they found it not important to write about shows that they were "comfortable" with it and took it as the truth. They were incapable of realizing that they were fools, as they were groomed to be loyal servants to the Brishits. When the Brishits left, they were still loyal to the Brishit way of things. A curse that follows us to this day.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 18 Jan 2015 06:55

**No-Fly Zone***

A misunderstanding. They were just asking for a Pee-Pee place, "Open Fly Zone".

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 18 Jan 2015 07:39

I don't agree with Fanon Frantz.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 18 Jan 2015 08:17

Karan M wrote:Thats as open a threat as any one has seen.

Threatening India with loss of US strategic partnership (with the US meaning of the term) is like threatening a vegetarian that he won't be given any beef.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 18 Jan 2015 10:41

A_Gupta wrote:I don't agree with Fanon Frantz.

We can hash it out in the WU thread?

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 18 Jan 2015 14:29

Sri Bobby darling, with an outrageous past as his, him winning the 2016 elections would be more than I asked for. This guy is a serious nut case. IMO, modi govt must realize the cynicism and offer support for his nomination.

Though I doubt if the sane brains in the republican party would sit quiet if he gets nominated. Still it would be an entertaining event if he really become POTUS.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Jan 2015 18:23

SwamyG wrote:So it begins
US asks for a no-fly zone over Rajpath on R-Day, India says no

what will they do?? ask the pigeons to "hold it in" when they fly over rajpath?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Jan 2015 18:24

KLNMurthy wrote:
Karan M wrote:Thats as open a threat as any one has seen.
Threatening India with loss of US strategic partnership (with the US meaning of the term) is like threatening a vegetarian that he won't be given any beef.

theres an economic threat as well in that article. brazen, petty and without real heft

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 18 Jan 2015 19:17

‘You put some juldee in it
‘Or I’ll marrow you this minute
‘If you don’t fill up my helmet, Gunga Din!’

The Gunga could be a British way of saying Ganga.

And this is why I believe we should stop looking at ourselves with western sensibilities. Gungadin urf Gangadin may be a swearword in US against Indians but what really matters is whether:
1) what americans think should be accounted for;
2) what we think should be accounted for.

That is why also I suggest that people should learn to hate just for the heck of it. Merely for the existence of the other. Unless we learn to do that we will never truly be able to understand how the 'other' thinks. Off course keep a handle on it all. Don't over do it, but do, do it. Just as an experiment, if its not too much. It is not different from loving just for the heck of it. People who understand love thus, should be able to understand hate as such.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 18 Jan 2015 19:25

LokeshC wrote:ramana ji,

In some Abraham Lincoln movies there are some oblique reference to that, but they conveniently ignored to mention about importing *Indian* indentured laborers from the Carribeans (I would have stopped the movie right there and switched on google chacha had they mentioned it explicitly).

If they did end up doing that, Brishits would have offered Indians as slaves, with the income generated going back to Brishitland. Brishits were not able to compete with the American South because of slavery. I am sure the mofos would have gladly joined in (300 million strong labor force).

Would have been another dark chapter for Indians.

That probably was a proposal, and even as late as 1860, Britain wanted to show its dominance in the Americas. The idea was the Confederates would break off asking Britain for military support. Lincoln quietly passed on information to the British that should that happen, then Canada is fair game for a US invasion from Union forces. The additional factor was the Rebellion of 1857 in India that British forces might still have to deal with.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 18 Jan 2015 19:33

The Indian army has planes flying over the parade on Republic day-- is the GOTUS machinery that cretinous to ask GOI to change its program because the chief guest security details wants planes not to fly overhead? WTF. Obama can stay in his hotel room if he is that worried about security.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 18 Jan 2015 19:36

From the Indian POV, getting rid of the paki monkey on its back once and for all would be a good thing, and would give peace a chance to take hold in the neighbourhood. Some paki lover in the US state dept. is writing this same pak-pasand sh!t we have seen from the US SD for decades.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 18 Jan 2015 19:43

Requests like these by the SS for POTUS are normal. They will push until they are pushed back and that is exactly what happened. Why? There is a huge bureaucracy associated with the military-industrial-security complex in the US. It is gargantuan never seen in human history. Not even Nazi Germany and Soviet systems had anything like this. Step by step, Americans have quietly given away their freedom to become a very effective police state.