India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 23 Jan 2015 08:16

http://carnegieendowment.org/files/unit ... erence.pdf

Ashley Tellis is disappointed with PM Modi. He thinks India to side strategically with the US -- a contrary position to the murderous mofo Zbigniew "look mama, here's my chessboard" Brzyznski (of Af-Pak fame) testified in congress that US should not antagonize china by forming any alliance with India. I guess the oiseaule Zbig is afraid his grand plans of a US-China grand earth-ruling alliance may not come to fruition...not that India siding with or against the US will make any difference on that front.

India should not go for a strategic relationship as long as the US funds the paki army on a regular basis, and that seems to be what is happening anyway. It is all just bidness and trade relations between US-India, except for naval cooperation in the IOR...best to leave it that way.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jan 2015 08:25

matrimc wrote:The other news is that the first couple are visiting Agra too to see Tajmahal. Redux of Clinton dancing with Rajasthani women who were lot more poised and lot more dignified than the ex-President.

Clinton the man used to ooze charm - a fact that was not apparent to me until he visited India.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 23 Jan 2015 08:37

Shiv wrote:

Clinton the man used to ooze charm - a fact that was not apparent to me until he visited India.

Unfortunately Clinton's presidency and legacy ware stained by his oozing bodily fluids. Still fondly recall how Clinton's secretary of state M. Halfbright wagged a righteous finger at India for the 1998 tests and proclaimed that India would pay for that misdeed. BO is so BOring in comparison.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 23 Jan 2015 10:16

Zbig who? The only notorius NSA everybody remembers is Kissinger because of his contempt for blood telegrams and SD of that time.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 23 Jan 2015 13:03

Lets play find the familiar face -- http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ribery-ch/

Still aiMing for the AG appointment I see.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 23 Jan 2015 13:20

The news item that the US is insisting that ANY tiny particle of fuel or eqpt sourced from any country for use in Indian N-reactors,MUST be accessibile to US intrusive inspections 24X7 "in perpetuity"!

This is outrageous.The ball is supposedly now in the PM's desk as the two sides negotiating the contours of the N-deal have reached a stalemate. One sincerely hopes that he and India do not succumb to this outrageous US pressure.When even the Russians have not specified such ridiculous clauses in supply of their reactors,why on earth should India succumb to western/US pressure? The arrogance of the US is limitless. There is no reason for India and Mr.Modi to kowtow and ingratiate ourselves with a fast fading lame-duck US pres. whose influence on world affairs is now miniscule. O'Bomber is now regarded as the worst ever US pres in history despite Osama being exterminated on his watch. Unless India is treated as an equal,.there is little point in an "inconvenient marriage" of interests,alliances,whatever,which will swiftly end up in divorce.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 23 Jan 2015 13:21

India, US to ink 10-year pact on defence framework during Obama’s visit

NEW DELHI: The Narendra Modi-led government is all set to go where the previous UPA government had feared to tread. India and the US may soon agree on allowing their warships and aircraft to access each other's bases, refuel and, in case of emergency, operate side by side.

For this, India has to sign what the US calls "Foundational Documents" or agreements required by its law for the transfer of sophisticated military technology and weapons to a country.

Sources tell NDTV( ) that the government is no longer shy of exploring the pacts that the previous Congress-led government, especially then Defence Minister AK Antony, had refused to even consider, saying India's sovereignty would be compromised.
In a sign of change under the new government, these agreements were at the core of negotiations between India and the US for renewing a 10-year Defence Framework pact. The discussions ended on Wednesday, setting the stage for announcements to be made during President Barack Obama's visit.

Sources tell NDTV( ) that the US handed over "Non Papers" - or informal discussion papers - asking India to consider the agreements. In response, New Delhi asked how these would benefit India. The pacts include the Communications Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement, the Logistics Support Agreement and the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for geo-spatial cooperation.

Sources say New Delhi's apprehensions on these pacts are wearing thin.

"Signing the agreements will institutionalise what is already routine...Indian ships replenishing supplies in Gulf with US support or vice versa. There is hardly any request that is denied on either side," a senior Defence Ministry official told NDTV. (How does replenishing food and fuel supplies institutionalize sharing of bases and communication protocols?)

The official also said signing one of these agreements may at times lead to a situation where the US can listen in on communication between platforms, but also allow Indian surveillance aircraft and ships to hook on to US satellites, connect to American assets thousands of nautical miles away and gather real time information, which India cannot do today.

Sources say PM Modi has asked the Defence Ministry to explore "convergence" with the US on these issues while renewing the 2005 Defence framework pact, under which the US has supplied $10 billion worth of weapons to India.

Political opposition had forced the Congress-led government to skirt around the contentious agreements. There have been major changes since then; the US has shifted its focus from the Gulf to Asia, where it sees India as a "strategic partner." More importantly, Prime Minister Modi has enough numbers in Parliament and is not dependent on allies who may object.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 Jan 2015 14:13

Among several other controversial things, they also wanted US servicemen and women on R&R in India to be accorded full diplomatic immunity.

Hope that the GOI is careful about signing any potentially unwanted agreemants

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 23 Jan 2015 15:14

Philip wrote:The news item that the US is insisting that ANY tiny particle of fuel or eqpt sourced from any country for use in Indian N-reactors,MUST be accessibile to US intrusive inspections 24X7 "in perpetuity"!

This is not new. India has never accepted this condition. I don't think there can be a change now. This could also be a pressure tactic to get some advantage in other areas of discussion.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 23 Jan 2015 16:06

I don't think that India will have any objections to IAEA inspection of the designated civilian plants.

The US would be aware of this. Thus the insistence on intrusive US inspections is a ploy to delay the implementation of the nuke deal by the Khans. This posture would not have been arrived at by some low level flunkey in the SD. It will have to have the support from the POTUS himself.

The question that comes to mind is what would be the end game to this policy.

The ans that is most obvious to me is TSP. Non operational nuke deal with India preserves == with the TSP. As this deal cannot be offered to the TSP as TSP is currently configured.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 23 Jan 2015 16:12

Agree with SS saar .. they smell a new eagerness in India's position to get access to US funding and tech given Modi's drive for growth and jobs.

They are trying their luck given the current GOI's obsession to make the visit a success on all parameters. I hope the eagerness does not lead us to compromise on India's long-term interests to gain some short-term advantage or just to show some so called deliverables.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 23 Jan 2015 16:23

chetak wrote:Among several other controversial things, they also wanted US servicemen and women on R&R in India to be accorded full diplomatic immunity.

Hope that the GOI is careful about signing any potentially unwanted agreemants

Do we have this on good authority? This seems more like a 'Status of Forces Agreement' which does not cover private visits.

Anyway, easily shot down by asking for full reciprocity.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 23 Jan 2015 16:23

An example of the current thinking in US circles.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2 ... obama-trip
Modi Needs to Be a Generous Host

In all the talk of “deliverables” that might come out of President Obama’s trip to India this weekend, two areas would seem like no-brainers. Both countries stand to benefit greatly from greater cooperation in civil nuclear power and defense technology, unlike other areas where very real conflicts remain. The U.S. is home to manufacturers of cutting-edge nuclear technology and military equipment, which are eager for new markets abroad. India is starved for power and almost entirely dependent on imports for military equipment. It’s desperate for quality suppliers.

Between them, India’s needs are greater. When he meets with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, Obama will press for concessions that would open the door for U.S. companies. Modi should grant them.

India needs to be generous to the US because it is the smaller country but wait .. it also needs to be generous to Bakis because it is a bigger country.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 23 Jan 2015 16:32

and in return, India gets talk and more talk ...
http://zeenews.india.com/news/india/ter ... 35110.html
Terror havens in Pakistan not acceptable, 26/11 perpetrators must be brought to justice: Obama

New Delhi: US President Barack Obama has said "safe havens" of terrorism inside Pakistan were not acceptable and those behind Mumbai terror attacks must be brought to justice.

"I have made it clear that even as the US works with Pakistan to meet the threat of terrorism, safe havens within Pakistan are not acceptable and that those behind the Mumbai terrorist attack must face justice," Obama said in an interview to India Today magazine which has been published in the upcoming issue of the weekly.

Bakis too have made some noise on the issue. This will last till the POTUS returns and then all of it will be forgotten.

habal · Post by **habal** » 23 Jan 2015 16:34

pankajs wrote:An example of the current thinking in US circles.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2 ... obama-trip
Modi Needs to Be a Generous Host
In all the talk of “deliverables” that might come out of President Obama’s trip to India this weekend, two areas would seem like no-brainers. Both countries stand to benefit greatly from greater cooperation in civil nuclear power and defense technology, unlike other areas where very real conflicts remain. The U.S. is home to manufacturers of cutting-edge nuclear technology and military equipment, which are eager for new markets abroad. India is starved for power and almost entirely dependent on imports for military equipment. It’s desperate for quality suppliers.

Between them, India’s needs are greater. When he meets with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, Obama will press for concessions that would open the door for U.S. companies. Modi should grant them.
India needs to be generous to the US because it is the smaller country but wait .. it also needs to be generous to Bakis because it is a bigger country.

the one who gave the pakis secret tuititon classes on strategic grammar is revealed.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 23 Jan 2015 18:02

Was O'Bomber a generous host when PM Modi visited?

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 23 Jan 2015 18:05

Philip wrote:Was O'Bomber a generous host when PM Modi visited?

But..but..."India's needs are greater" no?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 23 Jan 2015 18:25

Of course Ombaba was very generous to Modi ... did he not accompany him to MLK's memorial.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 23 Jan 2015 18:37

A tad rich for unkil to preach justice for 26/11 perps to its TSP munna ... given its own Headley record. No?

KarthikSan · Post by **KarthikSan** » 23 Jan 2015 19:08

I still don't understand what GoIs play here is. Obozo is the dehati aurat of Amrika and GoI is going all in entertaining this anti India Khan who will soon be out of a job. He cannot offer anything useful to Indian interests that will be seen through by the next administration.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 23 Jan 2015 20:15

He cannot offer anything useful to Indian interests that will be seen through by the next administration.

Same old rule: you get what you can and give away as little as you can -- the US needs the nuclear plant deals as a sop, so that will be given it appears. That should be tom-tommed as a major giveaway, not that the "secular" cretins in the Indian media will have the brains or Indian self-interest in mind to do any such thing.

Frederic · Post by **Frederic** » 23 Jan 2015 20:41

Tuvaluan wrote:Shiv wrote:
Clinton the man used to ooze charm - a fact that was not apparent to me until he visited India.
Unfortunately Clinton's presidency and legacy ware stained by his oozing bodily fluids. Still fondly recall how Clinton's secretary of state M. Halfbright wagged a righteous finger at India for the 1998 tests and proclaimed that India would pay for that misdeed. BO is so BOring in comparison.

Not to forget his dastardly allegation in his book that the ChattiSinghPura massacres on Sikhs were committed by "Hindoo Extremists".

And to boot, his Patni, the "Gujrat GraveDigger"

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 23 Jan 2015 21:10

Liberal Democrats have this wierd love for islam, almost like a death wish. They are also the most racist bunch of phucks I have ever come across in the US

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Jan 2015 21:50

I hope the eagerness does not lead us to compromise

I have enough confidence in the baniya log's ability to conduct bijnej transactions where it is not they who leave the room de-briefed. Question is whether they see any divergence between their own long-term interests and India's long-term interests, which would be rather bad. So far the indication is a firm NO compared to the previous Mafia dispensation in Dilli.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Jan 2015 22:17

^that would be actually mafia proxy in italy. very very scary!

but then what is the "foundation" aspect for a technology that we already have? so I guess the giver of the technology, is whom the compromise happens. but, we have to be careful enough reading in between the lines here and there. they are clever.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 23 Jan 2015 22:33

LokeshC wrote:

Liberal Democrats have this wierd love for islam, almost like a death wish. They are also the most racist bunch of phucks I have ever come across in the US

Indeed, LokeshC. The "liberal democrats" are a bunch of india-hating aholes, not matter how "nice" and "polished" they are and believe in their own self-righteousness. Clinton and his wife are a couple of despicable oiseaules -- hope the oiseaule Hillary does not become president. Indo-US relations will take a deeper dive than it already has.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Jan 2015 22:50

never let go off any signature on any document that makes India commit! period.

let the giver commit, and the consumer pay. that is bijnej model, where customer is always right.

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 23 Jan 2015 23:30

Another US requirement will be:concession that India has to offer as a big/small country to start talks with Pakiland. Back to 2005 and Sharm-ul Sheik, by Safed Dadi this time, no turban though.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 23 Jan 2015 23:31

US can take all its "requirement" and shove it -- they cannot dictate India's relations with pakistan, unless they just want to destroy anything positive that may come out of these talks.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 23 Jan 2015 23:39

Ombaba is coming to Republic Day on invite from PM Modi. Time to pull out all stops and make sure POTUS and first family do indeed have a good time. Hopefully, the daughters will have a good time and write about it in reflections of their years in the WH. Building up a personal rapport is important because it will influence future generations. The cold war old foggys like Zbig will soon be gone. I'm convinced that Indo-US relations will be good in the future.

Despite what many of us say here, India is a fun place with lots of excitement around the next corner, you don't know what will happen next or who will ring your door bell.

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 23 Jan 2015 23:40

Tuvaluan: The demands of US have always been similar, and Indians have succumbed to it for some better imagined benefits that never comes. It remains to be seen if this PM will draw a red line and say Pak affairs with India are a red line that US can not cross. Only thing that US should be asked to do is to stop funding TSP

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 23 Jan 2015 23:42

Unfortunately Ombaba's daughters are not coming to India due to school year in full swing. It could have been good soft power projection.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 23 Jan 2015 23:46

Despite what many of us say here, India is a fun place with lots of excitement around the next corner, you don't know what will happen next or who will ring your door bell.

There is fun and then there is business -- fun is for the little boys and girls and those not interested in more important affairs. And when it comes to business, it cannot be mixed with strategic interests, which the US will try to do -- India would do well to keep them separate. USA has no standing to dictate anything with respect to Pakistan, until they stop funding that terrorist nation and get out of interefering with India in Afghanisthan like they are doing currently. Until then, best to stick to business and drive a hard bargain like good businesses tend to do.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 23 Jan 2015 23:47

Anantha wrote:Unfortunately Ombaba's daughters are not coming to India due to school year in full swing. It could have been good soft power projection.

I was under the impression they were.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Jan 2015 23:50

me too.. that is sad!

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 24 Jan 2015 00:04

Pratyush wrote:I don't think that India will have any objections to IAEA inspection of the designated civilian plants.

The US would be aware of this. Thus the insistence on intrusive US inspections is a ploy to delay the implementation of the nuke deal by the Khans. This posture would not have been arrived at by some low level flunkey in the SD. It will have to have the support from the POTUS himself.

The question that comes to mind is what would be the end game to this policy.

The ans that is most obvious to me is TSP. Non operational nuke deal with India preserves == with the TSP. As this deal cannot be offered to the TSP as TSP is currently configured.

As usual, demands are being made in such a way that most stringent conditions must be met - which can't be - and hence more and more concessions demanded or else...

About the Naval facilities, the Americans already occupy Diego Gracia naval base in the Indian ocean, which - like Americas North/South - was "discovered" by primitive Europeans (primitive meaning exercising primitive practice of "founders' takers") and natives thrown out pronto.

Plus there was a case of suspicious American ship (MV Seaman Guard Ohio, 12 October) with surveillance equipment caught near the Indian east coast last year when a cyclone was about to come. There seems to be little reporting of that event, too. link . Points is USA has access on each coast somehow and extraordinarily, so why change anything now?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 24 Jan 2015 00:20

Actually speaking, DG should be shared by India and the powers that monger around for the benefit of mankind.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 24 Jan 2015 00:56

For the record, US already has 1 military base in Singapore.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 24 Jan 2015 02:40

well, they can afford as many as they can... and we need to leverage and suck as much we can.

places like DG is interesting, where India and USA can jointly establish CnC posts, which is the kind of exercise our forces would love to have. but then, it exposes dangerously close on the know-hows of both nations. the scratch back must be seen without any colored lens. Even with poodledom, massan fortifications are totally massan budgets. recently, massa is going lock, stock and smoking barrels away from inglistan. it is an economic reverse turn for those brit county-sides.

I doubt there would be any genuine 50-50 aspect with massa. Either we suck or they. it is better to engage in business in the end, rather look at joint programs. It is a trend that massans have to cross a bigger yellow sea. but, what would go wrong! engage in some production engineering setups in desh as a starter, where we can evaluate the relationship working on some niche aspects of defense and civilian space (huge space there to take on china)

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 24 Jan 2015 05:00

by Gus
there are 10 kinds of people in the world. those who understand binary and those who don't

Great Quote!!!