West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 03 Feb 2015 22:09

IS Says Jordanian Pilot Burned Alive In Video
Images of Mu'ath Al Kassasbeh's apparent murder are circulated on Twitter and show a man in a cage engulfed in flames.
http://news.sky.com/story/1420656/is-sa ... e-in-video

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 03 Feb 2015 22:44

IS burns 2,000 books and manuscripts possessed by the Central Library and the Museum of Mosul.
Translated link: link

Earlier, in Iraq suffered many such attacks.
- the ravages of war on Heritage in Iraq
- trafficking of antiquities in Iraq and Syria

In Timbouctou
monuments in Timbuktu destruction

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Feb 2015 22:53

uddu wrote:IS Says Jordanian Pilot Burned Alive In Video
Images of Mu'ath Al Kassasbeh's apparent murder are circulated on Twitter and show a man in a cage engulfed in flames.
http://news.sky.com/story/1420656/is-sa ... e-in-video

RIP to Jordanian Pilot , Sad Indeed

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 03 Feb 2015 23:31

Muzzie vs Muzzie. Why should we feel sad?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Feb 2015 23:36

A Soldier is a Soldier he deserves respect for that matter any human does and beheading and burning is inhuman at the very least and barbaric , if one leaves politics aside.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 03 Feb 2015 23:45

I agree. We should respect the soldiers who massacred all those Bengali hindus before and during the 71 war.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 03 Feb 2015 23:49

agree with Austin

makes me sick to the stomach

RIP

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 04 Feb 2015 04:48

XYZ dont kill XYZ, they just grill and lightly roast each other. Meh. Jordan could have saved the japanese reporter but chose not to. Double Meh. Sow XYZ, reap XYZ^2.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 04 Feb 2015 05:01

Agree with RoyG. Time the islamic bas-turds were turned towards the countries funding them.

Harish · Post by **Harish** » 04 Feb 2015 13:16

RoyG wrote:I agree. We should respect the soldiers who massacred all those Bengali hindus before and during the 71 war.

Completely out of context. The man in question is not a paki, and is not on record as having participated in war crimes anywhere. Have you considered the possibility that he might actually have been rather decent, and faced a horrific death with courage?

Or does his identity blind you to everything else?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Feb 2015 01:00

To me its blowback.
Jordan is a part of Arab block hosting Palestine terrorist /freedom fighters. They might not host them now.
And Jordan supplied F-104s with pilots to Pakistan during 1965 and 1971 wars.

Sorry no one feels sad for India.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 05 Feb 2015 03:29

The coalition against ISIS is a freaking joke - Jordan, KSA, Turkey, Iraq, UAE and most of the benefactors of IS are apparently going to be "destroying IS" from the ground up. The Arab countries are now doing a pakistan by pretending to fight terrorists while funding them -- add to it nuclear weapons acquired by KSA from Pakistan. Happy times ahead for this planet.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 05 Feb 2015 07:22

Harish wrote:
RoyG wrote:I agree. We should respect the soldiers who massacred all those Bengali hindus before and during the 71 war.
Completely out of context. The man in question is not a paki, and is not on record as having participated in war crimes anywhere. Have you considered the possibility that he might actually have been rather decent, and faced a horrific death with courage?

Or does his identity blind you to everything else?

Harish,

Jordan is an excuse -- a monarchy with a benovelent english bred ruler, moderately enlightened. Friendly with israel. Only bombing the IS folks lightly, like salt on freedom fries. Pray what was stpping threm from being so upset while others were being beheaded left and right?

Jordan is no baby dove, look up their role in any issue you might have an interest in. And whats different now? Have they taken any land away from IS?

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 05 Feb 2015 09:02

IS is killing people in Islamically sanctioned way and it sends a message every time it does so.

Non-muslims are killed with a knife, like animals are killed. Islam prescribes killing non-muslims in such a way because it is a form of insult. The message was that non-muslims are animals and not equal to a muslim.

The muslims Jordanian was killed by fire, because it is an improper way for a muslim to be killed. The message was that muslims who resist IS do not deserve to die as muslims.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 05 Feb 2015 09:49

Harish wrote:
RoyG wrote:I agree. We should respect the soldiers who massacred all those Bengali hindus before and during the 71 war.
Completely out of context. The man in question is not a paki, and is not on record as having participated in war crimes anywhere. Have you considered the possibility that he might actually have been rather decent, and faced a horrific death with courage?

Or does his identity blind you to everything else?

Haha, Islam is at war with itself as well as everyone else. Don't lecture me. Do you think just b/c he smiles and plays the enlightened muslim on camera, somehow makes him less pious? You don't know anything about him either.

We catch a BAT guy on LoC, and he beheads a jawan, you gonna go ahead and respect? I mean we are technically at war and he is a soldier right? But no if its dropping bombs from a plane and blowing people to pieces its diff. So yeah, respect away.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 05 Feb 2015 09:57

ramana wrote:To me its blowback.
Jordan is a part of Arab block hosting Palestine terrorist /freedom fighters. They might not host them now.
And Jordan supplied F-104s with pilots to Pakistan during 1965 and 1971 wars.

Sorry no one feels sad for India.

Ramanaji, these Jordanians are like Pakjabis in a way. They'll let everything burn around them, so long as the flames don't touch them. I see this play out over and over again with this "Enlightened" Arab monarchs. This strategy was borrowed from the British.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 05 Feb 2015 10:34

Robert Fisk,ME expert raises this v.important Q. He makes a v.compelling argument.

War with Isis: If the Saudis aren't fuelling the militant inferno, who is?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 24324.html

With Riyadh increasingly suspected of funding the terrorist group, the West may have to rethink its relationships, says Robert Fisk

Robert Fisk
Wednesday 04 February 2015

The image of a Muslim burned alive is more terrible for millions of Muslims than that of an “unbeliever” burned alive. So just who are the Muslims who support the immolation of a young Jordanian? And, more to the point, who are their masters? Jordanians, more than half of whom are Palestinians, must now debate the dichotomy of tribal loyalty and religion, and ask a simple question: who are their real allies – and their real national enemies – in the Middle East? The searchlight beam of their attention, and of Washington’s, will now again pass over the Gulf and that most Wahhabi of nations, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Put bluntly, should the world blame the Saudis for the inflammable monster that is Isis?

The US, where the State Department and the Pentagon have themselves been divided over Saudi Arabia’s foundational role in Salafist violence – the former happy to stroke the monarchy as a pro-Western “moderate force for good”, the latter suspecting that all Islamist roads lead to Riyadh – may now have to recalculate its relationship with the Kingdom. While President Obama predictably talked of Isis “barbarism” this week, The New York Times was revealing that the so-called “20th 9/11 bomber”, Zacarias Moussaoui, wishes to testify that he once delivered letters from Osama bin Laden to Crown Prince Salman – now the Saudi King – and that prominent Saudi royals were helping to fund al-Qaeda.

Zacarias Moussaoui, the '20th 9/11 bomber', claimed to have delivered letters to Riyadh Zacarias Moussaoui, the '20th 9/11 bomber', claimed to have delivered letters to Riyadh The report was compiled by Scott Shane, who specialises in “security” reporting, and Moussaoui’s allegations refer to events that happened well over 13 years ago. Moussaoui himself was arrested before the 9/11 attacks. It also seems unlikely that a comparatively lowly al-Qaeda functionary would have personal contacts with a Saudi crown prince, or handle a database of al-Qaeda donors which allegedly included Prince Turki al-Faisal, then the intelligence majordomo in the Kingdom, and Prince Bandar bin Sultan, then the Saudi ambassador to the US but now out of favour.

But Saudi Arabia is a Wahhabist state whose 18th-century puritan morality defined the Taliban – which received moral and financial support from Saudis – and whose misogyny and grotesque public beheadings after unfair trials parallel the cruelty of Isis punishments. The Saudis always declare their innocence – sometimes through their lawyers – of any involvement in “terrorism”. But bin Laden was himself a Saudi, who in the 1990s did have a personal meeting with Prince Turki in Pakistan. Fifteen of the 19 hijackers of 9/11 were Saudi citizens. And within months of the US attacks,
Deciding who is funding Isis – and who should take the heat for its survival – depends upon the degree a classified Pentagon briefing was told by an analyst for the Rand Corporation – set up in 1945 with the help of the US military – that Saudi Arabia was the “kernel of evil” in the Middle East and was “active at every level of the terrorist chain”.

Deciding who is funding Isis – and who should take the heat for its survival – depends upon the degree to which the world believes that the “Islamic State” is self-financing. Western governments have detailed the production of oil wells in Isis territory and the vast amounts of cash supposedly stolen from Mosul banks after Isis took over, but smuggling fuel and ransacking vaults can hardly sustain an Islamist “nation” which controls an area larger than the UK.

Millions of dollars must be arriving in Isis hands from outside Iraq and Syria, and the question must be asked: if it doesn’t come from within Saudi Arabia – or Qatar – who on earth is providing the wherewithal? Iceland? Peru?

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 05 Feb 2015 10:36

Does the jordanian king also hold a british passport given that the mother is british? He is eligible for one. Trained/educated in britain, married to a foreign born/bred queen. What actually is a jordanian? And here we thought the local politicians were too foreign.
/s.

Actually, why did jordan choose to not exchange the woman for the japanese? How does hanging them help? The pilot was dead for a month and it looks like the news was all over facebook.

ps -- if it was 45% THEN, what is it now?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 05 Feb 2015 10:48

Convicted terrorist claims Saudis funded al-Qaeda and knew of plot to down Air Force One
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 23049.html

A convicted terrorist has claimed that Saudi Arabian officials supported al-Qaeda financially in the years leading up to 9/11 and discussed shooting down Air Force One during Bill Clinton's presidency.

Zacarias Moussaoui made the claims, which Saudi officials deny, in a statement submitted from a maximum security prison in the US where he is serving a life sentence for conspiring in the 2001 attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people.

His testimony – which was not subject to cross examination – was part of a lawsuit by relatives of the victims against Saudi Arabia, he claimed prominent members of the Saudi royal family donated significant amounts to al-Qaeda in the late 1990s, the New York Times reported.

Zacarias Moussaoui, 43, is the only person ever to be tried specifically for playing a part in the 9/11 terrorist attacks Zacarias Moussaoui, 43, is the only person ever to be tried specifically for playing a part in the 9/11 terrorist attacks Moussaoui, who attended London's South Bank University, also claimed that he discussed shooting down the US President’s plane with a Stinger missile with a member of staff from the Saudi Embassy in Washington.

Read more: • Moussaoui's mother claims her son is a 'scapegoat'
• From 2006: Moussaoui sent to 'supermax' for six life terms
• Comment: Is Saudi Arabia regretting its support for terrorism?

In a statement refuting his latest allegations, a spokesperson at the embassy said there was “no evidence“ to support Moussaoui’s claim.

“The September 11 attack has been the most intensely investigated crime in history and the findings show no involvement by the Saudi government or Saudi officials,” he added.

A New York Times/CBS poll showed that 84 per cent of Americans believe 9/11 was an inside job Saudi Arabia has repeatedly denied involvement in the 9/11 attacks "Moussaoui is a deranged criminal whose own lawyers presented evidence that he was mentally incompetent. His words have no credibility.

“His goal in making these statements only serves to get attention for himself and try to do what he could not do through acts of terrorism — to undermine Saudi-US relations.“

The 9/11 Commission Report found no evidence that any government other than the Taliban supported al-Qaeda before 9/11.

“Some governments may have contained al-Qaeda sympathisers who turned a blind eye to al-Qaeda's fund-raising activities,” it continued.

“Saudi Arabia has long been considered the primary source of al-Qaeda funding, but we have found no evidence that the Saudi government as an institution or senior Saudi officials individually funded the organisation.”

Osama bin Laden Osama bin Laden came from a wealthy Saudi family Bin Laden, the late al-Qaeda leader and 9/11 mastermind, was born to a wealthy Saudi family and the country’s government worked closely with the US to finance Islam militants fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s. Many of those militants went on to join al-Qaeda.

More than 100 pages of Moussaoui’s testimony, given to lawyers inside the ADX Florence prison in Colorado in October, were filed in federal court in New York this week, Sky News reported.

The 46-year-old Frenchman is sometimes known as the “20th hijacker” because of his alleged role in the 9/11 plot. He claims he served as a courier for Osama bin Laden and trained at terror camps in Afghanistan.

His trial in 2006 found that he had taken flying lessons and was sent thousands of dollars by an al-Qaeda cell but was arrested before the attacks.

Moussaoui said that in the late 1990s he was also tasked with creating a digital database of donors to al-Qaeda, which he claimed included prominent Saudi royals and officials.

He has made similar accusations before and his credibility has been repeatedly put in doubt, even by bin Laden himself, who released a tape before he was killed by American special forces denying the jihadist’s claims that he was instructed to attack the White House with a Boeing 747 on 9/11, CNN reported.

Aicha el-Wafi in her home in Narbonne. She says, 'Every time I see Zacarias's school friends with their wives and kids I think, why not him too?' Aicha el-Wafi, Moussaoui''s mother, said he was radicalised while studying in London “I am the one in charge of the 19 brothers,” bin Laden said, referring to the 19 known hijackers, “and I never assigned brother Zacarias to be with them in that mission.”

At Moussaoui’s trail in 2006 his own lawyers claimed that he was mentally ill but he was deemed fit to stand trial.

During his sentencing, he said the US would “never get Osama bin Laden”. As he was taken from the court, he said: “America, you lost and I won.”

Moussaoui’s latest claims surfaced just a week after Barack Obama and world leaders travelled to Saudi Arabia to pay his respects after King Abdullah's death and meet the new monarch, King Salman.

Britain’s show of deference, including flying flags at half mast, was widely criticised in the wake of a spate of executions in Saudi Arabia and the country’s poor human rights record

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 05 Feb 2015 11:47

Shreeman wrote:Does the jordanian king also hold a british passport given that the mother is british? He is eligible for one. Trained/educated in britain, married to a foreign born/bred queen. What actually is a jordanian? And here we thought the local politicians were too foreign.
/s.

Actually, why did jordan choose to not exchange the woman for the japanese? How does hanging them help? The pilot was dead for a month and it looks like the news was all over facebook.

ps -- if it was 45% THEN, what is it now?

These people are so sick. I just saw the video. Our civilization respects soldiers but they don't do the same for us. At the end of the day, its all about the civilizational values. They need some sort of dharmic thought, perhaps buddhism to show them the light. Islam, in particular the Sunni branch, is just drain on the world. So much madness in that society.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Feb 2015 12:36

ironically islam destroyed buddhism in central asia and afpak.

peshawar (pushpapura) was a big center of buddhist culture those days and had a giant Stupa.

hard to believe ancestors of todays afghani talibs and TTP were buddhists in that era. 30-50% of TSP was buddhist and rest were hindu when islam "arrived" via the makran desert first and then via the afghan passes.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Feb 2015 13:01

I think it is very easy to blame Saudis without looking how the US, UK and Nato allies have cultivated Pakis, Saudis etc for the 100 years especially those who can eliminate Non muslims. Hell, all they key accused in 1971 riots in BD ended with Green cards and businesses outside the capability of their skills. This started in the western portion of Indian subcontinent and needs to replaced there by reversing the impact of the last 100 years.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 05 Feb 2015 13:43

Yes, if you are Hitler's banker, or his executioner, or his special forces chief, .... it is very easy to blame you. The saudis have money oozing out of every orifice. What precise justification do they have for cultivating alQ, ISIS, every pakistani nasty, every lebanon and palestinian nasty, and the list does not end.

No one is absolving the farther west. But the money for dirty work prior to poppy trade and ideology forever has been saudi. They deserve every bit of scorn they can get. There arent enough bits of scorn in the universe for just dragging wimmens through the street before stoning them.

Saudi is the seat of the devil right now. Like it or not.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 05 Feb 2015 20:31

No one here felt sad for Jordan

Hell I am all for giving Jordan to the Palestinians and throwing away the defeated Saudis.

Some of just expressed sadness for this pilot .

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 05 Feb 2015 22:32

The Jordanian Pilot was caught while he was on a sortee. He would have bombed ISIS militia to smithereens if he had his orders. So tell me why his death is horrific and ISIS militia dying is like - Roaches that must die.

Did Jordan not call in one brave Brig called Zia and got scores of Palestinians Shaheed-ify by Pak Army.

This rona dhona about Jordanian Pilot appears to me like Hindus shedding tears and writing poems when Peshawar Mujahid brought Greener Islam to a Military school while the same kids would have grown up and collaborated with Hafiz and Salahuddin to kill,rape and maim same tears shedding Hindus.

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 05 Feb 2015 22:53

VikasRaina wrote:The Jordanian Pilot was caught while he was on a sortee. He would have bombed ISIS militia to smithereens if he had his orders. So tell me why his death is horrific and ISIS militia dying is like - Roaches that must die.

Did Jordan not call in one brave Brig called Zia and got scores of Palestinians Shaheed-ify by Pak Army.

This rona dhona about Jordanian Pilot appears to me like Hindus shedding tears and writing poems when Peshawar Mujahid brought Greener Islam to a Military school while the same kids would have grown up and collaborated with Hafiz and Salahuddin to kill,rape and maim same tears shedding Hindus.

Amen. Green on Green violence - however horrific - is better than Green on Non-Green violence - however benign.

-M

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 05 Feb 2015 23:03

Thathastu...

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 05 Feb 2015 23:46

The pilot was son of someone very high up in the Jordanian junta. Someone high enough that they are commanding all-out air attack against ISIS (Call to annihilate the ISIS). Whatever it is, these guys have shown that they match the PanAm and IC Kandahar Paki terrorists in Pakiness. Demand for napalm and fuel-air explosive bums may have shot up, from the Jordanian AF.

What about Saudi funding? I can't believe that this is not traceable.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Feb 2015 00:37

ramana wrote:To me its blowback.
Jordan is a part of Arab block hosting Palestine terrorist /freedom fighters. They might not host them now.And Jordan supplied F-104s with pilots to Pakistan during 1965 and 1971 wars. Sorry no one feels sad for India.

Nature / Prakriti is turning milenniumwala page. strange things will happen in next few years. Have good folks noted that many enemies of India are either Atumning out slowly or dying quickly. IMHO, we have all waited them out .

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 06 Feb 2015 00:40

The IS is now starting their own IS Bank, and are part of the international banking system by proxy. The Saudis are just sneering at all the losers in the "west/EU/US" as they openly create multiple fronts for those countries to fight, including sleeper groups in each of those countries.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 06 Feb 2015 20:21

the video of the burning of the pilot is quite graphic... it is more horrific than most of the beheading vids we have seen...

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 06 Feb 2015 22:04

Well lets see if jordon (the only half decent arab army ) can actually do some serious damage to the IS.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 06 Feb 2015 23:46

They won't. ISIS is their creation after all & Iran is the prime target.

Nassim NicholنTaleb
‏@nntaleb
The king of Jordan funded and helped fundamentalists in Syria, many of whom joined ISIS. He is getting paid back. So does ISIS for betrayal.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 06 Feb 2015 23:54

Harish wrote:
RoyG wrote:I agree. We should respect the soldiers who massacred all those Bengali hindus before and during the 71 war.
Completely out of context. The man in question is not a paki, and is not on record as having participated in war crimes anywhere. Have you considered the possibility that he might actually have been rather decent, and faced a horrific death with courage?

Or does his identity blind you to everything else?

No but some of us have spent all our tears for Indian and Hindu victims of the Pure and Peaceful and do 't have any to spare.

DevD · Post by **DevD** » 07 Feb 2015 00:29

No but some of us have spent all our tears for Indian and Hindu victims of the Pure and Peaceful and do 't have any to spare.

KLN ji, even as a jingo and a maxed out Hindu, that was a terrible way to die for any human being. It is a classic example of gross violation of Dharma.
These psychopaths need to be annihilated. The question is who has got the testicular fortitude, resources and political will to do it?

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 07 Feb 2015 00:32

The question is who has got the testicular fortitude, resources and political will to do it?

The alternative is to provide these "victims" and their "aggressors", who just vary in the shade of green, enough motivation to slaughter each other, and save ourselves the trouble of having to be involved in any such bloodbath. As long as they stay out of creating trouble in India, why not use their own hatred for each other against them?

DevD · Post by **DevD** » 07 Feb 2015 00:56

As long as they stay out of creating trouble in India, why not use their own hatred for each other against them?

Tuvaluan saar, I agree that it's the most pragmatic solution. However, my worry is that the longer this conflict goes on, the greater is the incubation period for wannabe Jihadis to germinate, as evidenced by various faithfuls taking up the cause in desh. Radical radiotherapy is required, I feel. Sometimes, the LTTE treatment is the best way forward. Imperfect analogy, I know...

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 07 Feb 2015 01:27

some comments on above musings (all based on reading newspapers)
* pilot's father is a clan elder, and the clan is an important supporter of the king, the father himself is not a big shot in the government
* plane apparently had a fault and he bailed, he was not shot down - according to american sources
* he was always going to be killed, it may have been brought forward when jordanian and us forces started looking for him. he is not the first man to be burned alive by ISIS, some say that burning is sending a message to arabs, some say it is just deserts for bombing
* due to 'insufficient search and rescue' resources deployment by the US, the mighty UAE airforce has ceased combat operations over ISIS lands - now there's a surprise!
* talk of retaliatory air strikes by jordan having killed a female US hostage - maybe, maybe not - who knows
* jordanians are angry, but many of them are fighting for ISIS and many of them are sympathisers - might be time for another black september event in jordan...?

* jordan giving f104's to paf was a deal brokered by kissinger as being the best cover for america to break its arms embargo to help out their pak buddies. if we're angry with jordan, we need to be angry with unkil also. anyway 2 of them got shot down

* in my travels in jordan i experienced warmth, friendship and courtesy from complete strangers, i have some sympathy for jordanians and at a human level i feel sorry for the pilot - but my gut reaction was like others here - green on green is better than green on others. i did meet a few closet nut jobs too...

isis have of late killed a lot of people in public executions, including 2 chinese who had joined them and were trying to get back to china after discovering the delights of life in the caliphate

personally the thing that vexes me is... if they throw gay men off high buildings, how comes they are not all jumping off buildings by themselves?!?!

meanwhile british jehadi (read pak moron) fakes his death in syria and comes back to al-bartania to recruit more for the cause, gets arrested and has just been sentenced to 12 years. hope he gets some special attention in jail.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Feb 2015 02:41

Lal Mullah, Kissinger mamu brokered the 1971 transfer of F104. Who brokered the 1965 transfer! King Hussein himself.
And as for the warmth it could be because the current King's aunt is an Indian Muslim a very gracious lady who do a lot of development work.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 07 Feb 2015 03:36

i know that the jordanians had always been supportive of pak - thanks to cento and all that, all under unkil's blessings, but wasn't the 65 maal all direct sales from unkil?