India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 13 Feb 2015 13:59

Resurfaced? Dude, people were getting lynched in the south.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 13 Feb 2015 14:04

So, question. Patelji has filed a case. Will the govt file cases against the cop, if it is not satisfied with the case? Apart from a 'hey what happened there man?', we haven't seen the govt act tougher. If other such cases are a precedent, this cop (already only charged with 3rd degree assualt and not higher) will be let go and he'll find aonther cop job in another town or state soon while the Patel thatha will most likely never recover whatever mobility he once had. Not to mention lifelong therapy and medication and help for daily needs. Expensive, given the younger Patel is a grad student and has a newborn to take care of. Financial settlement?

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 13 Feb 2015 14:12

^^ Patel can only file a civil case. Individuals/families do not bring criminal charges. Best they can do is report an incident. Automatic in this case. The criminal charges filed by AL are minor.

The cop is in no real jeopardy. And even if he was, it wouldnt change anything in the bigger picture. This particular cop will have to work private security or mercenary jobs in the future. There are millions of them.

Edit -- yes, blood money from public coffers is the best outcome for the family. A spine injury requiring a fusion, especially in the C region is life threatening for a long time. So the outcome for Patel himself is not yet settled. Depending upon the choices made for him (health insurance), the medical bills will be astronomical. It is upto the quality of blood sucking parasite (sorry, attorney) hired by the family now.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 13 Feb 2015 14:14

He would not go for another job. His needs some more years to completely switch out of the cop business (because tenure in the police union determines the pension that he gets later). He will search for a cop job in another town, city nearby and try to keep his police union membership.

USA really needs to break police unions and prison worker union. Now, the only thing that can bell the cat is the elite super rich. They actually LIKE the cops this way, since they keep the population sheepish.

The social order that is emerging is like this:
Economic Elite>political elite>law enforcement unions > everyone else.

habal · Post by **habal** » 13 Feb 2015 14:25

LokeshC wrote:Here is another fun fact. If Sureshbhai has to renew his greencard or travel anywhere that needs a visa, all visa applications have this column:

x) Have you been arrested for any crime at any point in the last xyz years : _____________

He will have to tick that column and explain. One arrest can screw your happiness for a long long time.

& happiness is visiting USA ?

stop for a moment and think if you are part of the problem in it's varied vestiges or want to wrestle out a solution from stubborn white hands.

if happiness is visiting USA, then that is victory for the racist lobby because err they just have to find a way to threaten the rest to behave or be kept out of happiness.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 13 Feb 2015 15:37

I should note this in the positive news thread, but since the GoFundMe link was posted here, I should probably leave this here as well.

I tried a little dissemination experiment for that GoFundMe. Nothing fancy, just a simple note that is is an appeal for funding medicao/legal bills. Early returns are that most systems are programmed that such requests, if not coming from the popular kids (which disqualifies you), will a) be automatically suppressed, b)attract little to no interest.

However, the popular kids have rushed to the rescue. CNN has interviewed the son. The GoFundMe is doing all right. Just one little hurdle, the bill for a trauma spine surgery like that (the last ones I saw were ~15 years ago) are north of $500,000 counting the hardware and everything. Thats conservative surgery only estimate unless they took him to an el-cheapo hospital wherr it might be 100-200k less. The bills for hospital, rehab, etc. --not included. At 57, this is also going to be a *huge* uphill climb to any sort of life.

durairaaj · Post by **durairaaj** » 13 Feb 2015 16:45

One has to give it to BBC for sticking to its color, despite widely available video footage. Read the title.
US policeman charged for pushing Indian man

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 13 Feb 2015 16:49

US channels are mostly pro-US but PeePeeSee is anti-India. While the result might look the same the intent is very different.

Bakis and their ilks are now about 5% of the population in Londonisthan (Bartania i.e).

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 13 Feb 2015 18:34

Xposting...

rgsrini wrote:What a boneheaded police!!! The old man is docile and cooperating a 100%, and what is the need to body slam him to the ground. Is this what is being taught to the police force of the US? There are too many such incidents and are happening to often against colored people. They have become completely inhuman and does not understand when force should be used. This guy doesn't deserve to be policing as he clearly doesn't understand the role of police in the society. He is the one violating the old man's rights as the old man had absolutely done nothing illegal. I have no trust in US legal proceedings, especially when it is against their one of their own. We can only count on Karma to come back and bite this ******** the neighbor and all the unscrupulous bstrds who protects him. This arrest is just to fool the public, to reduce the anger and fizzle out the voices. After a while this bast.rd will be out and back on the job, or will retire with full pension well before his service ends.

I see a lot of Indians blaming the victim in Times of India and other comment section. In fact I saw a comment saying Don't behave like an Indian in the USA. Whatever that means. But the self hatred and shame on being an Indian is evident.

My thoughts and prayers are with Mr. Patel, his family and friends. Hope he recovers his full health!

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 13 Feb 2015 19:11

habal wrote:
LokeshC wrote:Here is another fun fact. If Sureshbhai has to renew his greencard or travel anywhere that needs a visa, all visa applications have this column:

x) Have you been arrested for any crime at any point in the last xyz years : _____________

He will have to tick that column and explain. One arrest can screw your happiness for a long long time.
& happiness is visiting USA ?

stop for a moment and think if you are part of the problem in it's varied vestiges or want to wrestle out a solution from stubborn white hands.

if happiness is visiting USA, then that is victory for the racist lobby because err they just have to find a way to threaten the rest to behave or be kept out of happiness.

What does that have to do with colonialism. Is thinking that travelling places (sometimes abroad) to be happy is wrong? Dude, if I had a small baby that was prematurely born I would be happy if my parents were here to help my family and I am sure they would be happy to travel as well. I fail to see the connection you are trying to draw. Travelling for happiness or wanting to travel for happiness is NOT a statement on the state of your resident country or on the state of the country you are visiting.

Even if you want to travel to a non-white non-colonialist country (like South Korea), that question will likely be present.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 13 Feb 2015 20:38

Another angle of the throw down. Unbelievable.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7dc_1423783854

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 13 Feb 2015 20:55

Prasad wrote:So, question. Patelji has filed a case. Will the govt file cases against the cop, if it is not satisfied with the case? Apart from a 'hey what happened there man?', we haven't seen the govt act tougher. If other such cases are a precedent, this cop (already only charged with 3rd degree assualt and not higher) will be let go and he'll find aonther cop job in another town or state soon while the Patel thatha will most likely never recover whatever mobility he once had. Not to mention lifelong therapy and medication and help for daily needs. Expensive, given the younger Patel is a grad student and has a newborn to take care of. Financial settlement?

For the record, Patel thatha is a grandparent from India - and not able to speak English - didn't mean he was another 'black man walking in Alabama'.

I wonder what would have happened to Ramanujan if he took to walking in Alabama on asphalt footpath and a good neighbour around the block was alarmed! Regardless of what general image of education in India is for common Alabama population, people from India are generally overall well educated - in any language and from any state - and have studied maths and science in Junior/Medium/Senior level at minimum.

For your reference, AMTI link , link1 for kids , link2 for high school .
As the link says clearly, such literature are available in many Indian languages.
A simple gogol search about Gujarat + Ramanujan gives this result: link - Ramanujan Mathematical society.

So it is not about racism in Alabama, and people are deeply civilized and not at all barbaric. It is just that there seems to be no concept, in a deeply civilized state of Alabama, of 'never been black man walking'.

Reminds of New York style arrest of Indian diplomat Mrs. Khobragade when she dropped her kids at school, and then she had to run from USA to India. while husband and kids are in USA. There seems to be no concept of 'never done drugs' too, in USA.

I would suggest Indians owning ideas that emanate from India - for example setting up Ramanujan center of mathematics - in different states of USA.

arun · Post by **arun** » 13 Feb 2015 21:26

RoyG wrote:Another angle of the throw down. Unbelievable.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7dc_1423783854

The brutality unleashed by US State Actor on Sureshbhai Patel is not the first case where Indian’s have been subjected to the barbarity of the Police in the US.

There was earlier the case of our diplomat Devyani Khobragade being at the receiving end of brutality of Police in the US and also case of brutality meted out to Krittika Biswas, daughter of our diplomat Debashish Biswas.

India needs to take strong action to ensure that citizens are not brutalized by US Police.

Meanwhile US President Obama needs to be reminded that rather than spend time on lecturing India about the lack of tolerance in India at his Jan 27th Siri Fort Auditorium speech and thereafter at the Feb. 5th US National Prayer Breakfast speech, his time would have been better spent delivering the same homily to his own citizens.

Watching the Alabama Police working over Mr. Patel, the charge of use of disproportionate force against Non-Caucasian countries by the US is not difficult to accept.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 13 Feb 2015 21:37

It seems the dismissal of the cop is intended to limit the compensation to 100k$. Now we all know why the fast action on the cop was taken. IFS, MEA, SS (personally) all are keeping almost quite. It is as if they are all afraid to make any noices.

Another "indian loves you Mr. Bush" type of rubbish. Not expecting this from GOI under NM.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 13 Feb 2015 21:51

Yagnasri wrote:It seems the dismissal of the cop is intended to limit the compensation to 100k$. Now we all know why the fast action on the cop was taken. IFS, MEA, SS (personally) all are keeping almost quite. It is as if they are all afraid to make any noices.

Another "indian loves you Mr. Bush" type of rubbish. Not expecting this from GOI under NM.

Saar, IIRC you are a Party Member onlee, have you by chance tried to convey this unhappiness up the food chain? With what result?

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 13 Feb 2015 22:07

Saw the video and it's highly disturbing. They used brutal force and banged his face on ground. Not to mention the victim was a 57-year old man!

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 13 Feb 2015 22:54

This incident is not the first, nor will it be the last. As someone pointed out, it is a societal problem when one calls the cops upon seeing someone walk past apparently peering into closed garage doors. These very same people will not know who walks past them at night, since the roads are usually unlit and the houses lit up like a proverbial Christmas tree. But an elderly person walking on the sidewalk in broad daylight is a threat somehow.

Secondly, it is also a militarization problem. Was watching a talk show by John Oliver on HBO yesterday, on one of his talk earlier shows, he calls out increasing police militarization through weapons and tactics. The latter part is applicable in this case - the way the cop tackles the uncle-ji to the ground is reminiscent of an army unit undertaking aggressive search ops. Not a police unit patrolling the neighbourhood. An Indian cop, for all his faults, will approach the elderly guy with at least some restraint - "saar, take care not to walk on the street, or on someone else's property". Usually, such advice is enough, and our cops know when to use the danda and when to just verbally warn. That seems to be missing here.

One good spinoff from Obama's recent lectures to us is that our media is now going hammer and tongs at him/his admin after this incident. Throwing stones from a glass house, sort of. No one is saying, 'oh he should have been careful and not violate the law in the US', as was the meme when DK was arrested. I hope this is the case with the far more important non-English media in India. Can anyone share observations from local media? The perception is changing, slowly but surely. Sadly, it is a great cost to individual Indian citizens.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 13 Feb 2015 23:32

In this instance there is no room for doubt. That's why the media is going at it hammer and tongs.

Uncle was a simple poor guy just taking a walk. Just look at him. He could be the father of anyone of us. Look at the force with which he was slammed down. That ape Eric Parker is clearly a very fit guy. He was probably demonstrating to his trainee partner how a slamdown like that is done, and since this was a skinny brown fellow who is going to give a damn? Imagine that uncle did not get paralysed. He would have just been bruised, injured and humiliated. But he would have no chance against the policemen. It is only because he was incapacitated that this is a news story. Otherwise, it would have been training day...

What is happening to America?

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 13 Feb 2015 23:34

Yagnasri wrote:It seems the dismissal of the cop is intended to limit the compensation to 100k$. Now we all know why the fast action on the cop was taken. IFS, MEA, SS (personally) all are keeping almost quite. It is as if they are all afraid to make any noices.

Another "indian loves you Mr. Bush" type of rubbish. Not expecting this from GOI under NM.

Not when civil rights are being violated. The $100k limit only applies to negligence cases, not civil right abuse cases.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 13 Feb 2015 23:53

JE Menon wrote:
What is happening to America?

People think that I joke when I say that if things go the way they are going, Anrika will soon be in a major humanitarian crisis.

If the uncle was an old Hispanic or Black dude, he would be in a prison now for assault of peace officer. Sureshbhai world have met the same fate had it not been for the dash camera.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 14 Feb 2015 00:09

not apparently, allegedly. there is no independent corroboration that he was peering into garage doors, which is a ridiculous concept with wooden doors and glass windows above 6ft, so unless somebody is at 7 ft, they can't be peering into garages..

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 14 Feb 2015 00:13

JE Menon wrote:In this instance there is no room for doubt. That's why the media is going at it hammer and tongs.

well in other cases, they were blacks and it can be easily spinned off as "they were probably guilty, they must have done something" etc...here the thatha is a frail old man from a community not known for crime. even then in some places you would hear "its his fault for not knowing english"..

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Feb 2015 00:20

most of the caste, cows, curry comments on media are appearing from indian profiles. either fake ids or a whole lot of self loathing goin' on.

unlike the other case, mr patel was no mugger of shopkeepers etc for all those trying to draw an equal equal. so that's flopping big time..

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 14 Feb 2015 00:22

In US, the police, firefighters, armed forces soldiers are treated like God. And the police have been given a wide leeway in use of force. All they have to do is show that their lives were under threat, and they can get away with murder. So many shootings of unarmed people by police happens every year in US, and hardly one police officer gets convicted.

Check out this other case near Seattle where police shot and killed a person who was throwing rocks at buildings (& also at officers who came by). Their first reaction is to shoot to kill. And this is not the first case. Seattle is supposedly a "liberal city". Couple of years back, an officer stopped an American-Indian wood carver who was deaf. That guy was carrying a knife and a wood piece in hand. He turned around when the office called and didn't stop as he couldn't hear the officer as he was deaf. The office shot him dead because he had a knife in hand, even tough he wasn't threatening him. The officer walked free as he proved he believed his life was under threat!

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Feb 2015 00:55

till cops start getting thrown into jail for abuse of power these things will continue. yeah US has a long history of overdoing its patriot games stuff with all these folks

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 14 Feb 2015 01:16

US laws are written in a manner that provides legal backing to police brutality and covering up mistakes -- most of the time, the worst that happens is that policeman is fired from his job even after killing someone. No jail time. Similar to how shooting someone for trespassing is perfectly allowed if you can prove someone was trespassing -- use of excessive force on the job is considered to be something that will kick of an internal affairs inquiry, in the best case.

The excuse that is provided is that citizens can own high caliber weapons with a license, so a policeman carrying out his duty is under danger of being shot at with a machine gun, in the worst case, so he/she has to act as if every citizens is potentially carrying a machine gun, which sounds legitimate except when you consider cases like Mr. Patel's in Alabama. If Mr. Patel had just been bruised and not severely injured, this case would not have even made it to the local papers in that city, even if he had been humiliated and taken to the police station for just walking around.

For example, when a policeman stops you for speeding, you cannot step outside the car for any reason until the policeman walks up to the window and registers your DL in the computers that in police cars nowadays. If you had to get out of the car to hurl, literally speaking, and your skin happened to be off-white, you could be in a world of trouble, if the cop happens to be a racist mofo.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 14 Feb 2015 01:27

The absence of any single comment or an article written by a brown sephoy blaming the Indian victim worries me. Why is the brown sephoy brigade so silent hainji ???

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 14 Feb 2015 02:31

Sagar G wrote:The absence of any single comment or an article written by a brown sephoy blaming the Indian victim worries me. Why is the brown sephoy brigade so silent hainji ???

Once the popular kids take up your case, you can rest assured the sepoys will be silent.

Dont worry, an Indian will soon do something bad in India or the west. And the hand-washing will include this incident as innocent accident due to the many sins of the browns. Talking now will drive a wedge in the propaganda.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Feb 2015 02:42

NYT are gnashing their teeth no doubt that a "gujarati upper caste hindu" patel is acting so uppity. many editors must be dismayed that a brown man getting "justice" from his betters is being brought up. no doubt another article on hindu fascists is due anytime to remind the pagans of their place.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 14 Feb 2015 02:52

In fact, if Mr. Patel has not been paralyzed or otherwise grievously injured, you would have had all the sepoys out in full force preaching to Indians to not play the victim and giving the indian community a bad name in the US. This has actually happened before in similar instances -- it is the fact that excessive force was used in this case cannot be wished away that the sepoys in the Indian media and elsewhere are observing complete silence.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 14 Feb 2015 03:18

JE Menon wrote:
What is happening to America?

Frustration born out of the loss of 'THE' American way of life manifested as pathological hatred for everything that does not conform to their perceived notion of the how things 'should' be.

I dread how it will be when hyperinflation is rife and with so much gun ownership everyday happenings in Iraq may seem like child's play.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 14 Feb 2015 03:53

imo, it probably was always worse and only now with increased connectivity, these things come out immediately and cannot be buried by locals.

the outrage is because people have bought in to the massa good, massa great narrative.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 14 Feb 2015 04:21

1. "These things come out now":No. They dont. Still being pushed under the carpet in vast vast majority of cases. For examples, do you know how many indians are deported? What is the deportation process? Or who supports them during the travesty?

2. "It was always like this": Post civil rights, things had turned a corner. 9/11 gave people an excellent excuse to be openly racist again. Now, the constitution is a piece of paper -- judges, chief justices no less -- are openly defying higher courts. Cops are having their way. Dont even mention the state of prisons. This is a reflection of the general population, only the fear of retribution is removed.

3. "Massa great":As shiv noted here and elsewhere -- as a wage slave you will be mistreated. Think of it as a glorified dish cleaner that you employ. You dishes may be lines of code, or medical prescriptions or surgical sutures. It is up to you to raise the bar, and bring dignity to your culture, race, and skin color. The only indian minority that does it are the sikh. And they have been hijacked for other reasons.

4. "Indian government should do XX": Including the PM, India carries the leverage of a village panchayat chief from a remote hamlet in Nagaland. The US, president to the last common man, see the same exotic sense you would if said panchayat chief would gain media attention. Of a circus.

There is only so much media bandwidth, it is highly monopolized by groups that do not have the division, internal conflict, egos over language and Birth place, and fratricide that Indian dialog carries.

Prevention is the only current cure. Be informed, and stay vigilent. That is all I can advise.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Feb 2015 04:23

" from massa is good. it is the goodest ever. old school boy.

"you brown people dont know your place.
why cant you learn english? why do you have to be skinny and dark? walking in white neighbourhoods? looking at the reflection of rich white folks stuff on the footpath?
you gotta learn your place boy.
NYT, Economist they all there to tell you how to behave. Heck, they sent the Prez himself to ye uppity brown fellers so that you could civilize yourself. Mkae yourself christian and stuff. But look at you. coming to our country, creating all this ruckus."

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Feb 2015 04:28

"Insecurity" that drives NYT

brown people with their curries, their caste, their hands (they dont use forks and knives), worshipping all those "idols" in their dark temples and yes,you know its like secret castes where the brahmins who attack muslims and christians make their secret plans.one day he will marry one of ours. look at him, dark, skinny ,he ain't no christian.

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 14 Feb 2015 04:29

Regarding "peering into garage": Plenty of old people walk by my house on the sidewalk, and sometimes they stop, look at my garage if it's open and I am out and about doing something. Natural curiosity, especially if it's their first time here etc. I saw the same thing with an old white guy in Mysuru recently too, stopped in front of my aunt's house to "look around" and see what people were up to

. You would have to be dumb to think that a person like that was any threat.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 14 Feb 2015 05:46

"One intriguing question is how much an immigrant’s characteristics can lessen the threat to identity that some people feel. For instance, native-born people’s attitudes are less affected by skin tone or origin than by language, Hainmueller says.

“People may be less likely to develop an anti-immigrant attitude based on immutable qualities,” he says. “You can’t change your skin color, but you can learn English.”

http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/je ... -attitudes

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 14 Feb 2015 05:58

Why is the clamor for GoI to get involved? A serious question. Do foreign governmento get involved when foreign tourists are attacked in India? What is the protocol?

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 14 Feb 2015 06:12

^^^^
They have gotten involved at least to the extent of issuing statements:
Indian man slammed down after caller reported 'black guy'

The Indian government is taking the incident seriously and is "extremely disturbed" by the treatment of Patel, a spokesman said Friday.

"This is a matter of concern for us, and India and the U.S. as open pluralist societies need to address these issues and find ways in a mature manner so that these are aberrations and are not the norm," said Syed Akbaruddin, India's foreign ministry spokesman.

Embassy of India spokesman Sridharan Madhusudhanan said in an emailed statement that the office has been in touch with Patel's family, the doctors who are caring for him and the U.S. Embassy in Delhi.

"Our understanding of the situation is that while there has been some progress, the medical condition of Mr. Sureshbhai Patel is still a matter of concern," Madhusudhanan said.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 14 Feb 2015 06:49

Karan M wrote:no doubt another article on hindu fascists is due anytime to remind the pagans of their place.

And that will be faithfully printed,relayed,telecast with haarthi by the chindus,doorknobs,Father Dominics,Johns here.