Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Viv S
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Viv S » 08 Feb 2015 11:27

Karan M wrote:A HESH round on the top of any tank or on its turret near the mantlet, will strip out all sights, possibly wreck critical assemblies, and generally mission kill it.


From what I understand, the HESH round's lateral impact is limited (also reducing energy losses while the shockwave moving axially). More so when the vehicle is 'insulated' with ERA. That said, it does have a relatively wide area of impact, so a well placed shot could mess up the electronics (even warp the enemy's main gun enough to make it useless). But 'blinding' the enemy is not a given once you factor in redundancies on modern tanks like the CITV and auxiliary gunner sights.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby arshyam » 08 Feb 2015 22:29

We have been hearing about the T-90MS off and on, and Saurav Jha says that there may be a direct purchase of 354 from Russia. Can gurus enlighten if Arjun Mk-II can be used instead - the snippet below makes a case for exactly that, but I am trying to understand if there are any other considerations that he hasn't covered.

A look at the Indian Army's Main Battle Tank programs - Saurav Jha, IBNLive
Even as the domestic production of the T-90S stabilizes there may be a move underway to procure some 354 T-90MS tanks from Russia directly to counter the Chinese at some points on the LAC. Proposals for any more direct import from Russia however is a little strange given that the focus instead should be on producing sizeable numbers of Arjun Mk-2s and deploying them in the Punjab and Jammu sectors as well which would free up enough domestically built T-90Ss to be deployed against China. With a power /weight ratio of 21.0, and the nominal ground pressure (NGP) of 0.95 kg/cm2 the Arjun Mk-2 is more than capable of being deployed in these areas. Moreover the .feasibility report by the railways has confirmed that the movement of Arjun loaded wagon anywhere is not a problem. The Arjun Mk-2 is strategically mobile enough to be deployed to Punjab especially given that enough bridging equipment of maximum load class 70 is available anyway.

Also, looks like the IA is having close to 900 T-90s after fulfilling the current orders, but there are many older tanks left in the authorized strength of 3717 tanks:

Overall the latest batches of T-90Ss will be between 80-90 percent indigenous by value. At the moment HVF is racing to fulfil the old indent of 300 tanks (of which 80 percent may have been delivered) and is looking to commence production for some 236 more tanks as per the December 2013 indent given to it by the IA. Overall the number of T-90Ss in the IA's inventory today is just over 900 units.


It must be noted that while CIA induction is well and good many of the IA's T-72s will run out of their designed service lives by the early 2020s which would mean that new tanks would have to replace them given the IA's authorized tank strength of some 3717 units.


I hope we see a big order for Mk-IIs soon.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Cosmo_R » 08 Feb 2015 22:38

Karan M wrote:..
Why do you think he was appointed as the IA pointsman and where do you think all those extra trials for Arjun, hence the delays and hence more T-90 orders, came from? It was a well thought out game and the Arjun can become a hovercraft but a Brig XXX will appear as the pointsman and say Arjun cant go supersonic and T-1000 is a better tank and so forth.


Rosoboronexport tentacles run deep.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Karan M » 09 Feb 2015 00:33

I dont know whether its Rosoboronexport or plain organizational decision. Some folks decided that Arjun had to be killed & they'd go to any lengths necessary to do it, using the system to their advantage as they were insiders.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby deejay » 09 Feb 2015 14:49

Karan M wrote:I dont know whether its Rosoboronexport or plain organizational decision. Some folks decided that Arjun had to be killed & they'd go to any lengths necessary to do it, using the system to their advantage as they were insiders.


This was the purchase decision which I had asked about from the Army Gent close to the procurement process and he had accepted that while Arjun Mk II's are superior they are importing because the T 90's were cheaper. :-?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Pratyush » 09 Feb 2015 14:56

Some one needs to educate the officers the long term price of import dependency. Again it is the job of the MOD.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby NRao » 09 Feb 2015 15:02

Rosoboronexport tentacles run deep.


That is their job.

cost is part of that game.

However, time is slowly running out for such players. Not too long before they will be beaten at their own game. Sad that the Russians have decided to go for bread crumbs.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby deejay » 09 Feb 2015 15:09

Pratyush ji, IMO it is the job of the military itself. However, the IA and IAF have not learnt the lessons but the IN has made it an internal culture. There was a suggestion by Saurav Jha in one of his tweets that academies like NDA, IMA, AFA should have a mandatory paper on this issue.

I think courses around in-house R&D, Indian defence production etc are a great idea. If we train them young, we will definitely see a better situation and armed forces which have culturally accepted weapon systems designed and produced in India.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Singha » 09 Feb 2015 15:22

first they tried the Polish Anders tank as something for china front.

but since the ZTZ99 and successors would rip its backside apart, the talk shifted to why not T-90?

yes why not T-90 indeed if it can face up man to man with all its limitations (the cold means no domestic AC jugaad is needed to save its sorry backside up there) ....

but no way in hell we should import any other variant for the mountain armour role....the proud leader and kommander of the republic day parades should itself be airlifted by C17 sorties or driven up in trucks and made to earn its keep on the china front.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby shaun » 09 Feb 2015 19:49

technologies developed for Arjun are being incorporated in to tin cans because tin cans being tin cans are inferior in every respect to Arjun, thats the writing on the wall and still people want to be blind...!!!

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby srai » 11 Feb 2015 04:54

Shaun wrote:technologies developed for Arjun are being incorporated in to tin cans because tin cans being tin cans are inferior in every respect to Arjun, thats the writing on the wall and still people want to be blind...!!!


There is an irony waiting to happen here. Sometime in the near future, tin can lovers would conveniently forget xyz tech came from Arjun program and instead shamelessly point out those very systems being incorporated on tin cans is equivalent or superior to that on the Arjun MBT :twisted:

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Yagnasri » 11 Feb 2015 09:02

The main fault is with MOD. If they put their foot down nothing like this will happen. In fact I do not see any reason for importing any systems needed by IA in the first place. I agree that I have only mango man knowledge in this aspect, but if we can make a probe to Mars, we can make most of the things need for IA if not all. Only thing needed is political will, which was sadly lacking till date.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby RoyG » 11 Feb 2015 12:14

There is a huge russian lobby in the armed forces and on BRF lol. It will take some time to fix the problem. Nobody believes the bullsh*t that comes in the way of Arjun being inducted in greater numbers anymore. Personally, I think that those advocating the tin can should hang their heads in shame b/c it is our soldiers who are going to bear the brunt of being in an inferior piece of hardware. Eventually, the orders will be placed and the tin can will be phased out in due time.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 23 Feb 2015 19:30

Latest news about the new Russian revolutionary MBT,the Armata.Expected to be unveiled by Sept.Hints at its features in the link,with poss. configuratio,deliveries from this year.ns.The RA has reportedly placed orders .


Russia’s new Armata tank on Army 2015 shopping list

Published time: February 21, 2015
Screenshot from youtube.com video

Russian troops are receiving beta versions of a future armored tracked platform that could usher in the 5th generation conventional land tank, heavy APC, artillery and missile launcher and possibly fully robotic assault armored vehicle.

After five years of development, the Uralvagonzavod Research and Production Corporation has finalized manufacture of the first batch of Armata tanks and heavy personnel carriers. They have been included in Russia’s 2015 defense order, TASS said.

Reportedly, 20 units have already been manufactured and issued to troops for hands-on training.

The exact characteristics and appearance of the platform remain classified, though this might soon change as the new vehicles are on the verge of taking part in the Victory Day Parade on Red Square, May 9 this year.

A better chance to see these innovative battle vehicles of the future might be given to experts and public alike during Russia Arms Expo 2015 (September 9-12, Nizhniy Tagil).

Mark this name: Armata

The new Armata armored tracked platform has reportedly combined and assimilated all the last decade’s major developments and innovations in battle vehicle design and construction.

The platform’s chief tank (T-14) sports an unmanned remotely controlled turret armed with a brand new 125 mm 2A82-1M smoothbore cannon. Its muzzle energy is greater than one of the world’s previously considered best cannons: the German Leopard-2 Rheinmetall 120 mm gun.

The 125 mm gun has 15-20 percent improved accuracy and its rolling fire angular dispersion has improved 1.7 times.

According to Russian media, the Armata tank might also come with a specially developed 152 mm gun, the most powerful ever cannon to be mounted on a main battle tank.

The tank’s turret will also carry a 30 mm sub-caliber ranging gun to deal with various targets, including low-flying aerial targets, such as attack planes and helicopters.

A 12.5 mm turret-mounted heavy machine gun is reportedly capable of taking out incoming projectiles, such as anti-tank missiles. It’s capable of neutralizing shells approaching at speeds of up to 3,000 meters per second.

The tank’s crew is securely enclosed in a multi-layer armored capsule separated from the ammunition container. The vehicle is fully computerized and only needs two servicemen to operate it. Each can also deploy the tank’s weapon systems.

The tank’s targeting is reportedly done with an active-phased array antenna and a large variety of other sensors.

The Armata platform allegedly has a fully mechanized electric transmission, powered by a 1,200 HP diesel engine. For greater efficiency, maintenance and repair schedules have been extended.

Within its blueprint, the Armata armored vehicle has the potential to evolve into a fully robotic battle vehicle.

According to preliminary estimates, 2,300 units are required for the Russian army.


PS:Earlier reports say/showed a 3-man crew compartment forward of the remote controlled main gun.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Pratyush » 24 Feb 2015 10:08

Hmmm........

Lets cancel Arjun and buy Armata.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby member_26622 » 24 Feb 2015 10:21

We already have the next gen Armata i.e. Armada ( from Mahindra) which requires only one crew member to operate - driver :lol:

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Austin » 01 Mar 2015 14:10

Via mp.net/Randy

Image: http://i.imgur.com/kLqS9GT.jpg

*Arjun HEAT round*

Image: http://i.imgur.com/shDQylW.jpg

*Arjuns Accuracy During Trials

*Image: http://i.imgur.com/zWDHZ1e.jpg
*
Arjun Anti Mini Vehicle

*Image: http://i.imgur.com/MlkEu2A.jpg
*
Arjun Armor Recovery And Repair Vehicle

*Image: http://i.imgur.com/lwhKoOX.jpg
Image: http://i.imgur.com/Pv7EZGU.jpg
*
FMBT Design 8)


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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby pralay » 02 Mar 2015 09:55

Is that FMBT design turretless ?
Turretless, is quiet ineffective in face to face combat and in urban settings.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Gyan » 02 Mar 2015 10:04

FMBT seems to still have 4 men crew inspite of having an autoloader.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Misraji » 02 Mar 2015 10:16

Pratyush wrote:Hmmm........
Lets cancel Arjun and buy Armata.

Get ready to be quoted as a defense expert by our "comrades".... :mrgreen:

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Singha » 02 Mar 2015 12:20

turretless (swedish S-tank) and unmanned turret are different things. many would prefer a unmanned turret if the autoloader can be made to work reliably as that would save a few tons of weight and present a smaller target.

the crew would be inside the hull behind the main armour...more armour can be added into the bathtub and top from the weight saved in turret. but the need to mount all equipment inside the hull itself instead of the walls of the turret also might prove difficult.

secondly being in non rotating seats the commander and gunner would not have a optimal sense of 'facing the enemy along axis of the gun' and lose some bearings.

probably the hull would end up being a huge tall one like merkava that is almost 6 feet tall and defeat the weight savings of a smaller turret. overall the tank is 10 feet tall like the old M-60.

the abrams pbuh is 6'6" to the commanders hatch. so hull down is easier as it has to dig itself into a shallower burrow and presents less attackable surface overall.
and we all know what its FCS , ammo and gun can do :twisted: it aint pretty.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Austin » 02 Mar 2015 13:54

The FMBT is not turret less it has Turret and you can see the Ammo placed behind the turret isolated from crew.

The 4 man crew is just misleading if they have autoloader as they mention in specs then there is no need for 4th crew.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby member_22539 » 02 Mar 2015 14:35

^I have a question. Given the picture (is it an actual design or just some artist's conception?), how do you think the gunner and commander gets in?

I see two hatches in the automated turret and that would suggest that the gunner and commander gets in through there, meaning though they are not inside the above hull part of the turret, they are in fact seated inside the below hull part of the turret. This would also mean that they would face the way the turret is pointing at all times. Thus, it would avoid the "facing the enemy" problem as well as the height of the hull problem.

Am I right?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Singha » 02 Mar 2015 15:44

FMBT picture is that of a tank with turret.
if you look at artists conception of a true unmanned turret, you see two hatches left and right side. thats where the driver, commander and gunner get in.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lICGI_mhqWg/maxresdefault.jpg

in the 4 man tanks, the loader does not have his own hatch and has to share the gunners hatch to get in and out. in the pic above the commander and gunner would likely share one hatch and
the driver sits in his own compartment

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby rohitvats » 02 Mar 2015 16:22

Arun Menon wrote:^I have a question. Given the picture (is it an actual design or just some artist's conception?), how do you think the gunner and commander gets in?

I see two hatches in the automated turret and that would suggest that the gunner and commander gets in through there, meaning though they are not inside the above hull part of the turret, they are in fact seated inside the below hull part of the turret. This would also mean that they would face the way the turret is pointing at all times. Thus, it would avoid the "facing the enemy" problem as well as the height of the hull problem.

Am I right?


Arun - the picture does not give full information.

However, if we assume it is a 3-man tank, then seating arrangement seems similar to other 3-man tanks like T-90 or Leclerc. Basically, the commander sits on left in the picture and gunner on right. The main canon is middle of the two and separates them. The two man crew sits

And this is where it gets interesting: Given the placement of ammunition in the bustle, there is possibility of using a bustle mounted auto-loader like Leclerc or South Korean K-2 tank. Basically, the horizontally placed ammunition you see in the bustle feeds directly into the cannon. This has many benefits - The autoloader and ammunition placement on T-90 limits the length of ammunition; this is especially debilitating for main anti-tank ammunition called APFSDS. However, placing the ammunition in bustle removes this limitation.

Please see this image for understanding the above: http://www.armyrecognition.com/europe/France/vehicules_lourds/Leclerc/Leclerc_Char_Technical_information_France_03.jpg

Another pic showing auto-loader feeding ammunition to main gun in K-2:
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9NjkP62IJKU/hqdefault.jpg

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Austin » 02 Mar 2015 16:30

Yes the auto-feed is similar to Leclerc and the hatch arrangement is similar to 3 Man tank.

The FMBT looks like a Leclerc with 50 T weight

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 02 Mar 2015 20:06

Just for the record,many moons ago I asked why we weren't using/acquiring a light tank in the Hinalyas and for mountain warfare? Easier to transport and it would be available in large numbers too,costing less than an MBT. The idea was pooh-pooed by some.The Chinese have done just that introducing their new light tank in Tibet. Why couldn't we have started a light tank programme a long time ago to replace our PT-76s? It was easily doable given out Vijayanta /Vickers light tank success.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/01/china- ... hting.html
China has new light tank for fighting in mountains in Tibet and other western provinces
There are pictures of china's new light tank for fighting in mountainous areas. China's has issues with minorities in some of the mountain areas. China has almost 15 million Muslims who live mainly in the rugged mountains and desert basins of the northwest, on the central Yellow River Valley plains, in the southern province of Yunnan and among the city populations of the east.

The ZTQ light tanks seem to have 105-millimeter main guns. They were seen on train cars, apparently heading for China’s mountainous Tibet region. This according to the very attentive China Defense Blog, which routinely reposts the most interesting semi-official photos of Chinese weaponry.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby d_berwal » 02 Mar 2015 21:59

@ Philip

what was so successful about Vijayanta /Vickers?

It was not a light tank by any benchmark.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby uddu » 02 Mar 2015 22:06


Philip
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 03 Mar 2015 10:34

It was called the "Vickers Light Tank".The point is that we already have a 105mm gun which we've mass produced for years in the basket. If the Chinese are going to field their light tanks in Tibet,what will we be able to counter them with? The absence of a light tank in the IA's inventory should be rectified.Transporting MBTs to Himalyan heights and supporting them as well will be a "Herculean" task.No pun intended!

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby srin » 03 Mar 2015 11:14

Philip wrote:It was called the "Vickers Light Tank".The point is that we already have a 105mm gun which we've mass produced for years in the basket. If the Chinese are going to field their light tanks in Tibet,what will we be able to counter them with? The absence of a light tank in the IA's inventory should be rectified.Transporting MBTs to Himalyan heights and supporting them as well will be a "Herculean" task.No pun intended!


We're going to counter them with Spike ATGM ... and Helina mounted on Rudra's and LCHs.

Looking at the maps, the tankable areas seems to be Aksai Chin, East and South of Ladakh (Spangur gap and Demchok) and north of Sikkim. Why not use MBTs in conjunction with IFVs instead of light tank ?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 03 Mar 2015 13:04

Will we be able to support heavy MBTs at those alts.? If the Chinese are going to use their light tanks with 105mm guns,our ICVs will be outgunned. ATGMs are par for the course for both armies. A lighter tank will be able to operate in greater areas,where MBTs are either too heavy to transport/support or cannot operate because of the terrain. These light tanks (remember how we used Stuart light tanks in '47 at Zoji La/kargil?) have proved themselves v.useful in the past in similar conditions.
[quote]The Zoji La pass was forced by using tanks (which had not been thought possible at that altitude) and Dras was recaptured.[/quote]

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby uddu » 03 Mar 2015 15:45

Artillery must be the top most priority along with large number of Man portable ATGM's to Helina's.
Similarly we will be very vulnerable to PLA artillery and ATGM's. Hope the Asian giants dont fight again. The two civilization in Asia must live long. The CCP is digging their own grave by being provocative.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby ArmenT » 03 Mar 2015 15:51

uddu wrote:

Loose translation for non-Tamil speakers, by a non-native Tamil speaker :)

Around 0:20 - Vanakkam and welcome to the show, .... Today is republic day and on this happy day, if you're wondering where we've brought you, we're at CVRDE at Avadi, where India's defence research org is. If you are curious about exactly what is special at this place, please follow us.

0:45 The first person we are going to meet is the Director of CVRDE, Dr. Pa. Shivakumar, we can ask him for lots of good information, come on in.

1:15: About DRDO, you said, we need to know about it. Can you tell us a bit of information about DRDO
Dr: Shivakumar: Well if you look at India, we have various ministries. One of the important ministries is the Defence ministry. In the ministry of Defence, we can say there are four major wings. One is Department of Production, another one is Quality Assurance, another one is all Services (i.e.) Army, Navy, Airforce etc., and the R&D wing, that is DRDO, and DRDO is headed by a Scientific Advisor to Defence Ministry, he is heading that. If you look at the main role of DRDO, it is to fulfill the requirements of all users, whether it is Army, Navy, Airforce, it has to be fulfilled. If you look at DRDO today, we have 52 labs total spread out throughout the country. Starting from the needs of the army soldier's cloth, to the nuclear sub, aircraft, missile, tank etc., whatever the user needs, all the research, development, trials, evaluation and delivery for production environment is done initially by DRDO, which is the main focus. Today, if you look at DRDO, the 54 labs, 1.78 lakhs crores amount R&D developed products are now in production, so it shows the strength of DRDO.

Around 2:45 (then she asks about the two tanks behind her, actually she asks about "the two matters")
If you look at India, there are two main projects. One is Main Battle Tank, Arjun, another is light combat aircraft, Tejas. CVRDE is proud to be involved in both projects. MBT Arjun Mark - I, that's what you're looking at over here (on right side). This one, after all kinds of trials were finished and the user acceptance trials, we've delivered 2 regiments, almost 120 tanks, deployed to the border and operational. Army is very happy about them. After looking the the performance though, Army wanted some more improvements, because today world is improving a lot, so after you add the latest technologies, you can bring about another tank, so here we have Arjun mark II (on left side) -- this has 19 major improvements and 69 minor improvement points. So total 85 improvements together, we added on this tank (Mark I) and we made it as a MBT Mark II. The speciality is that within 2 years, we could come out with a product. So for Arjun mark I, people say we took 20 years for it, but if you look today, we are very strong, because we learnt how to do it all and so we can prove that we can do it fast, in just 2 years we produced this new tank and it is almost done with user trials and MBT Mark II, we are expecting more numbers shortly.

4:00 Ok, so Indian Army will start using this weapon soon?
Dr. S: definitely
So, could you let us know about the special features of this tank (MBT mark II)
Major thing if you look, you may have seen missiles, like ones from DRDO are surface to surface, surface to air etc. But now we have tank fired missiles, we actually proved there is such a thing on Arjun in 2004. Army said we want this for production and so one of the important capabilities of Mark II is that it can fire missiles. Besides that, there is this thing called Commanders Panoramic Sight. Tank's most important leader is the commander. He has to know what is happening with 360 degree surveillance, should be able to see at day or night, so all these improvements, we have done in the commander's panoramic sight. One more improvement is the RCWS - Remote controlled weapons system, that is the loader can sit inside and can fire at low flying targets. Besides all this, look at the front and you'll see a track with mine plow. If you look, mines are the biggest problem today for the army. Not only outsiders, but also insiders create problems. So to remove these mines out of the way, we have this track with mine plow. One more thing is that if you see this (indicates a shape) shaped thing on top on the chassis and turret, that is the ERA - explosive reactive armor. Its purpose is, if you have a chemical energy weapon, how to protect the tank. We've made many improvements like this. The Arjun MBT mark I weight is 62 tons, mark II is 68 tons, but performance of Mark II is still better than Mark I, so we've done improvements in the mobility also.

Reporter: Ok, you've told us how you've put the best improvements in here, what else is new and improved in the Indian Army in 2015, is there something you are going to implement?
Dr. S: If you look at manned vehicles, we have Arjun Mark I and Mark II, but we are also planning for the futuristic tank. It can be the next generation main battle tank. How we are going to design and produce the next gen MBT, we've already done some feasibility studies, we've almost started development of subsystems also. So that is the future plan.

Reporter: So from your point of view, if you compare India with other countries, where do you think we've improved?
Dr. S: Good example is Arjun MBT Mark II. Today if you look around the world, for this type of tank technologies, I'm proud to say that Arjun Mark II is one of the leading ones. That shows we have good technologies, and within DRDO, CVRDE, combat vehicle development, we can do it very fast too, prime example is mark II. So definitely from tank point of view, we're definitely ahead.

7:00
Reporter: Ok, so R&D usually takes long time, but you've managed to get this done in a short time, so how do you make this a success.
Dr. S: Normally, for research, it takes some time to come to some stage. Now that we've attained that stage, from now on, we can deliver very fast. That's why I said, Arjun Mark II - 2 years, Catapult - 1 year, reason we can do all this is because we have sound basics.

Reporter: on this republic day, special occasion, what would you like to tell the audience.
Dr. S: First thing we need from education perspective is a questioning capability (i.e.) students should ask questions. Students are all studying and getting good marks, but what is lacking compared to other countries is we lack the questioning mindset, that is the first point. Second point is that basic research is missing. Basic science research. So younger generation should concentrate more on R&D, it is very essential from country's point of view. So Kalam says that by 2020, India should become a developed country then, basic research is very important.

ArmenT
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby ArmenT » 03 Mar 2015 15:56

^^^^
Part II of above report

Around 8:30 Reporter: after learning all matters about this tank, I've gained respect about it. Now I desire to go for a ride, please follow me.

After some difficulty, I got in this tank and now that I'm in, I'm safely seated inside it. While I'm standing or sitting inside it, I have this divine feeling, because so many people put in hard work and I feel blessed to be in it and am thrilled.

9:30 Reporter: Arjun Mark I and II, Dr. Shivakumar explained some details about them. To learn more, we are going to talk to Program Director Balamurugan. Hello sir. We are eager to learn more information about this tank.
Balamurugan: What you're looking at here is Arjun Mark I tank, CVRDE's main product. We developed this well and users did lots of trials on it. If you look at this tank, it has firepower and it can aim accurately and take out an enemy tank, then it has mobility to get to an enemy tank, also it has protection, if the enemy tank attacks us, we can still continue to fight back. With all these 3 combined, we have developed this tank.
Reporter: Ok sir, can we know about the Mark II.
Balamurugan: What you're looking at here is Arjun MBT Mark II. Behind the development for this tank, there are a lot of stakeholders, apart from DRDO. Director has told you a lot about DRDO, but besides DRDO there are a lot of others input involved too. There you see mark I, if you look at improvements for Mark II over Mark I, 5 agencies consulted together to make this in 2010. We decided on 85 improvements and we only started development in 2010. But if you look, by 2012, we fielded one prototype. It is a big matter to put a tank together in only 2 years. I've told you about numerous improvements over Mark I, because of these improvements, this is one of the world's leading tanks, comparable to any tank in the world, this is one of the best.

11:22 Reporter now talking to Additional Director Mr. Balaguru. Everyone has been telling us about this tank's numerous special features. What do you want to say about this model?
Mr. Balaguru: If you talk about any tank, there are two major systems: Chassis and automotive system. What you're seeing down below, that is chassis and automotive system.
On top of that, we have turret and weapons system. So to take the turret and weapons system anywhere, cross country etc. to give it mobility, that is the job of the chassis and automotive system. So inside this, we have protection as well as firepower. So once we've integrated all these systems together, you have a tank.

Reporter: So you've told us the basic matters about this tank, now can we take a look inside.
(they climb on top)
Mr. Balaguru: What you're looking at here is the driver's compartment. In other vehicles, the driver's seat is adjustable. In here, there are two adjustable positions: head out and head in. When in a battlefield, driver goes inside and everything is closed and that is the head in driving. Outside the battlefield, the seat can come up for head out driving. Without looking at the equipment, the driver can drive without vision equipment, just by looking outside.
Reporter: Now can I take a look inside.
Mr. B: Of course.
Mr. B: Can you see the steering? In the center there is the brake pedal, right extreme is the accelerator pedal, like in the normal automobiles. In the front are two displays. That's the dashboard, with the speedometer and all vital parameters related to mobility will be displayed.
Reporter: Besides the straight view, there is also a side view...
Mr. B: Yes, you can view the complete profile in the front. This here is the day periscope. Besides that, we have the DNS - Driver's Night Sight. You can drive with this even in pitch dark conditions.
Reporter: yes right, so you can see clearly in any weather conditions and any kind of lighting.
Mr. B: Yes we can drive anytime

13:34: Reporter: So you've told us about driver's side oart, but tell us the part where you aim the missiles
Mr. B: This here is the crew compartment or fighting compartment, I already mentioned it earlier. What you're seeing here (points to left side) is the commander's hatch (i.e.) it is a door. From here, the commander of the tank, he will sit here. Now if you look inside the hatch, you will see a seat there, that is the gunner's seat. That's the one that aims and fires the gun. The commander, as the director mentioned, will do 360 degree surveillance with CPS (Commander's Panoramic Sight) and pick the next target and tell the gunner. The seat (pointing to the right hatch), that is the loader's seat. If you ask what a loader does, he takes the ammunition (from the back) and loads the gun. The place where these three people sit is the crew compartment or fighting compartment. This is where all the aiming devices and displays are all here.

14:30: Reporter: Now they've told us some interesting details of Arjun tanks, it was very useful. Now for electrical subsystems ...
Lady (caption says her name is Birbavathi, Additional Director (ELECTRICAL)): If you look this tank is a monster, a 60 ton monster. First, we have starting and generating system. To start this, we have 8 batteries inside. Each one is 100 ampere-hour. We have them hooked in series parallel combination for a total of 400 amp-hour, 24 volts. This is all DC because we can't use AC for mobile applications. You might have noticed in the driver's compartment, for the first time ever, we have introduced a digital display inside this tank. Before this, it was all analog displays. Now in latest cars, you have the CAN bus, in this tank here, we have also digitised the engine control. So, from the driver's compartment the signals go to the engine compartment and feed back comes back and so on. All of this comes under electrical system.

15:30 Reporter: Now to tell us more, Additional Director of Running Gear System, Dr. Solomon is with us. Please tell us about the speciality of the running gear system.
Dr. S: If you look at the speciality of this, the suspension system, this is one of the latest advanced systems in the world. This is a hydro-gas suspension system. If you look at this tank, it is a cross-country vehicle. Unlike other vehicles, this cross country vehicle, as a battle tank, it has to go over different terrain: boulders, rocky terrain, river terrain. It has to go over all places, it has to negotiate all ground undulations, that is why we have here this track system. This track is a mobile platform, or we can call it a mobile roadway. So this whole tank rolls on the tracks. If you look at this suspension system, it has very soft cushioning. So the crew and the sophisticated equipment are very safe inside. One more thing is this tank's main requirement is firing accuracy. To achieve this firing accuracy, the main reason is the running gear system, because it provides what we call "primary stabilization". Because our stability is good, that is why our gun is also very accurate. Also if you look, this track is a rubberized track. It is a steel tread, but you can take this tank on normal paved roads as well and it won't damage the roads. It is actually rubber padded and if you look at a wheeled vehicle, the same concept like rubber tires, we have these rubber pads here (embedded in the tracks). It won't damage the roads and also, we have this thing called High Frequency Vibrations, these pads will absorb them as well and because of this, the crews inside will experience good comfort.

18:00: Reporter: We've learned lots of details about this tank, now we want to learn about communications:
Lady (caption says her name is Savitri and she's Additional Director (COMMN & IT): When we talk about communications, internal communications is by wired, external communication is via wireless. If you look at this wireless communication, we can talk over total of 40 km, though we really only need range of 25 km. In that 25 km., if you look, this communication has two parts. That is, if you look at tank roles, there is gun tank, control tank, command tank, different roles, so depending on the role the communication is different. So if you look at gun tanks, from one tank to the next, there is very little distance between them, like 500 meters apart. So when they are that close, wireless communication doesn't need to be high powered. So with a 5 watt radio set, for upto 5 km. range, we can use 5 watt radio set. But the same radio set also has a high power option. When we flip it to 50 watts, then then we can talk over longer ranges, like 25 km. So if you look at this, a squadron commander, in a regiment there are 3 squadrons, and each squadron has 12 + 3 tanks and they
can talk within themselves, then they can also communicate from one squadron to another and throughout the regiment, we can also establish a network of communication. We can do both voice communication and data communication from one tank to another. Also I talked about intra tank communication which is wired, one crew member can talk to another crew member and they can also transfer messages, similar to how we transfer messages in cell phones. Say I cannot talk because there is some secret that I don't want to talk about with voice, or say the driver can talk to commander and commander can talk to gunner, but driver doesn't need to be distracted by the details to the gunner. We can also send messages from one tank to another, we have comm. facilities for that also.

20:45: Reporter: Sir, this place looks different. What is going on here?
Gent (no name caption or title given): Here in this simulator, we provide training. Because to give training with an actual tank is a costly proposal. Therefore we've created this simulator, so a battle tank commander, gunner, driver etc. we can give them training right here. So if you give us a fresh Army jawan recruit, we can give them all training in this simulator. For example: for a driver, how to drive the tank and cross different obstruction conditions, how to drive under different environmental conditions, all this practice can be done in this driving simulator.
Reporter: May we see the process?

21:25: Now here, if we're really driving a tank, what you feel here is what you'll experience there. So if he applies the brake here, you'll feel the forward movement. When he climbs that obstacle, you'll feel the same vehicle disturbance that you feel in reality. (to off screen person) Please drive over there slowly. See, in between the path there is a ditch, he will climb over that as well and you'll feel the effect and the scene changes with the driver's actions and the vehicle disturbances, we synchronize all of this. It is a challenging task to do this, but we've done it all indigenously. In India, this is the first troop training facility ever.

22:15: Reporter: This is a visual treat. Normally training looks a bit boring, but this type of training looks real interesting. And what is this coming up herehere.
Gent: This is a water obstacle. We call this a fording exercise. If you look on the side, it is a rocky surface. And when you travel over a rocky surface, you feel a disturbance. Now we're completely in the water and when you float in the water, immediately it feels different, as if like a floating object.
Reporter: Yes,yes I can feel it
Gent: And now when we come out again, we feel the jerky movements. So we've worked out the vehicle dynamics in an excellent manner.

22:55 Reporter: We hope you've enjoyed watching our full day tour. So we've come to this spot and learned what these hard working people are doing and such a large process is happening here. When we hear about war, we think of all the brave people fighting in the armed forces, but behind them there is this mind and this technology and the people working towards its success, that I feel proud about and I have to salute the people working here. Until then, this is Kritika telling you all bye ...

rohitvats
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby rohitvats » 03 Mar 2015 21:40

^^^ArmenT - what a fantastic effort, Sir. A hat tip to you!

titash
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby titash » 04 Mar 2015 05:03

100 on 100 for your time and patience ArmenT. Hats off to you sirjee!!!

devesh
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby devesh » 04 Mar 2015 06:17

ArmenT ji! Thank you!

Philip
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 04 Mar 2015 12:32

Nice work Armen.Was there any talk about missile/projectile countermeasures for A-1/2,active and passive?


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