Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 10 Apr 2015 15:25

Seems like the Army Issued a Statement of successfully testing Brahmos blk III at 'extended range' then withdrew it

http://www.livefistdefence.com/

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Apr 2015 15:33

The extended range thing can get them into MTCR trouble , better to keep the range part limited to 290 km onleee for any official communique.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Apr 2015 16:11

the google earth distance between trak island and car nicobar is 200km only. so unless it flew a zig zag route over the sea it would not exceed 300km for sure.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 10 Apr 2015 18:26

idrw is now reporting that the test failed without any additional details.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 10 Apr 2015 18:28

JTull wrote:idrw is now reporting that the test failed without any additional details.

They would they, they would want additional details wont they. They are one of Indian defense blogs with Paki moderators arent they?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 Apr 2015 18:32

Aditya_V wrote:
JTull wrote:idrw is now reporting that the test failed without any additional details.
They would they, they would want additional details wont they. They are one of Indian defense blogs with Paki moderators arent they?

Biggest bunch of plagiarist imbeciles. If they say anything, it means one of the idiots who "contributes" to that fake news site either:
1. Copied it from some place - which means they shamelessly lifted what some newspaper said
or
2. Made it up
or
3. Has no clue of whats right or not but just want eyeballs

Heck they could give many of the Paki blogs a good run for their money.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 Apr 2015 18:36

I bet they lifted stuff from here. On google its the first result for Brahmos test fails.

http://www.asianage.com/india/crucial-b ... -fails-705

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Apr 2015 19:10

khan chacha usually sends RC135 rivet joint (of KAL shootdown fame) or EP3 to loiter around and monitor missile tests ... I am sure one must have flown up from singapore or australia or diego to monitor each of our missile tests.
however this test from car nicobar was a surprise move.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Apr 2015 20:35

Wonlee when capabilities need to be advertized or for reasons of safety advance notice is given with full chance for snooping. Rest all announcements are post event.

sohamn · Post by **sohamn** » 10 Apr 2015 23:34

The distance between car nicobar and trak island is 212km. So it was definitely not a breach of range. So obviously, it was a pre-repaired press release, but the test was not as anticipated. May be there were user error, or deviation of flight path etc.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 11 Apr 2015 01:17

Depends if the flight path was in sea skimming mode and range was 200+km then it would send signals on the real range.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Apr 2015 01:40

Its a Block III vehicle which has been proofed many times. Its not a setback. More like some production issue.
Give time for RCA.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 11 Apr 2015 19:56

Erm, why has the Army deployed Brahmos on an island?

sohamn · Post by **sohamn** » 11 Apr 2015 23:37

^^^^^^ It could be a test range

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 12 Apr 2015 02:28

Discuss all you want. But if you really know something, please keep it to yourself.

nash · Post by **nash** » 13 Apr 2015 08:43

http://mod.gov.in/writereaddata/AR1415.pdf

This is something new:

Missile Launched Precision Guided Munitions
(MLPGMs): successful trials of MLPGM was
carried out from MIRACH unmanned aerial
vehicle (UAV) on August 19, 2014 which
met the mission objective, proving control
and guidance algorithm of the munitions
with mathematical model of seeker.

And some more details:

Canon Launched Guided Missile (CLGM):
CLGM is the semi active laser homing antitank
missile which is able to engage the enemy
tanks up to 5 km. The kill mechanism with
CLGM is tandem high explosive anti-tank
warhead. Instrumented flight trials from tripod
have been successfully completed and midcourse
guidance has been demonstrated.

Hypersonic Technology Demonstrator
Vehicle (HSTDV): DRDO is developing
HSTDV having speed up to 6.2 Mach.
Successful ground test of full scale scramjet
combustor carried out with gaseous ethylene
fuel for 20 sec in connect pipe mode
test facility. Fuel could ignite at extreme
combustor entry Mach number of 2.7.
Combustor performance meets the mission
requirement in terms of thrust generation.
Prototype of cruise vehicle bulkheads has
been realized. Flight hardware of inter-stage
has also been realized for launch vehicle.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 13 Apr 2015 09:05

What is MIRACH UAV?

ravip · Post by **ravip** » 13 Apr 2015 09:11

ASB Glide: Non-winged version of guided
bomb having a range of 30 km has been
named as ‘Garuda’ and winged version of
this weapon having 100 km range is called
as ‘Garuthma’. Garuda store has been
successfully released from the Su-30 MKI
aircraft during 2013. Transfer alignment and
safe separation have been proven as part
of development trials of Garuda. Wing kit
realization and wind tunnel tests have been
completed as a part of development trials
of winged version Garuthma. Garuthma
drop trials were conducted successfully on
December 19, 2014 in Bay of Bengal off the
Odisha coast.

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 Apr 2015 09:22

abhik wrote:What is MIRACH UAV?

I guess they meant the Mirach target drone system?
Mirach

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 13 Apr 2015 09:23

Singha's plans of a 100 silent winged bombs on the way to their targets near lahore in the pitch darkness of a moonless night... are coming true.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Apr 2015 09:36

hopefully with RAM coatings and LO shape. 100 or even 50 dropped on a airbase from outside SAM range can overload the guns and SRSAMs and play havoc on the static infra.
if a couple brahmos can take out the main radar for the base a few mins before, all the better.

a trio of B1 bombers levelled a huge libyan base in a solitary mission flown with many refuelings from north dakota over the atlantic. all one could see for the rows and rows of HAS were piles of sand later.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 13 Apr 2015 09:57

Karan M wrote:Singha's plans of a 100 silent winged bombs on the way to their targets near lahore in the pitch darkness of a moonless night... are coming true.

Somebody told me a year ago that next war will be done only with lethal missiles like this. There will be no border intrusion at all.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Apr 2015 13:39

I hope we have mentioned this to the people we are going to fight in the next war and got their signature notarized on stamp paper.

The meaning of "asymmetric war" is that the adversary will find your weakest spot and attack there. If you weak spot is a pre-decided plan not to send in ground forces they will send ground forces in and ensure that your war is not fought the way you want,

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 13 Apr 2015 18:51

Reported many moons back. Has there been any progress?

✈Anantha Krishnan M✈ ‏@writetake 11m11 minutes ago

Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet Propulsion(SFDR) being developed Jointly with DRDO and Russia. RT: @DigestSas

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 14 Apr 2015 06:27

So it's Garuthma, not Gruthma

(Garuthman means the winged one, another name for Garuda if i get it right)

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Apr 2015 06:47

nash wrote: Hypersonic Technology Demonstrator
Vehicle (HSTDV): DRDO is developing
HSTDV having speed up to 6.2 Mach.
Successful ground test of full scale scramjet
combustor carried out with gaseous ethylene
fuel for 20 sec in connect pipe mode
test facility. Fuel could ignite at extreme
combustor entry Mach number of 2.7.
Combustor performance meets the mission
requirement in terms of thrust generation.
Prototype of cruise vehicle bulkheads has
been realized. Flight hardware of inter-stage
has also been realized for launch vehicle.

I am sick of hearing about this. DRDO needs to demonstrate that they are not taking the country for a ride. In 1996 or 1998 Aero India the entire DRDO display was dominated by a model of this hypersonic vehicle. 20 years down there is virtually no progress. DRDO is bluffing and we are getting hoodwinked. They are achieving nothing in this regard.

I will post an image ( a video grab) of that Hypersonic vehicle model from 20 years ago

member_28932 · Post by **member_28932** » 14 Apr 2015 15:26

Bheeshma wrote:What about the swordfish-2 with a range of 1500 km? Isn't that required to counter 5000 km range BM's.

Swordfish deployed in Delhi said one expert in discussion on TV.

member_28932 · Post by **member_28932** » 14 Apr 2015 15:28

SSridhar wrote:Nothing surprising on Agni VI per se except more details are seen now.

According to The Hindu (Feb. 05, 2013), “We have started working on the multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles [MIRV] version [Agni-VI]. It will carry four or six warheads depending upon their weight,” DRDO missile technologists said. “The constraint is the vehicle’s mass.” Although the Union government is yet to sanction Agni-VI project, the DRDO has done all the enabling studies, finalised the missile’s design and started working on the engineering part. It had also figured out how to anchor four or six warheads in the vehicle, how to disperse them and the pattern of their dispersal

As per Bharat Karnad, MIRV was ready for the test but didn't get political approval.

member_28932 · Post by **member_28932** » 14 Apr 2015 15:32

dinesha wrote:DRDO exploring possibility of increasing range of Pinaka MBRL

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst
COIMBATORE: The Armament and Combat Engineering Cluster wing of DRDO, Pune is exploring the possibility of increasing the range of Pinaka Multi Barrel Rocket Launch System ( MBRL) from 40 km to 60 km, a top official said here today.

"The trials are in the process at the cluster, which will be followed by field based trials," Anil M Datar, the distinguished scientist and ACE Director General told reporters on the sidelines of a graduation day function at the Sri Ramakrishna Engineeri ..

He said ACE was working to get more accuracy to target in guided rockets, even as manual labour is reduced and automation increased.

ACE was also in the process of developing a quick launcher portable bridge that can move along with the equipment, Datar said

Pinaka Mk2 already tested for 65 KM range, It uses 5% RDX added fuel in place of old fuel. Pinaka MK III with further longer range with satellite guidance is in making.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 14 Apr 2015 21:00

I am sick of hearing about this. DRDO needs to demonstrate that they are not taking the country for a ride.

It detracts from any credibility DRDO may have. But I suppose they have concluded, perhaps rightly, that the Indian people are too stupid to know any better.

Even if they launch this afternoon, its twenty years too late. Many people waiting for it are now in homes for the aged, or dead.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Apr 2015 21:46

I am sick of hearing about this. DRDO needs to demonstrate that they are not taking the country for a ride. In 1996 or 1998 Aero India the entire DRDO display was dominated by a model of this hypersonic vehicle. 20 years down there is virtually no progress. DRDO is bluffing and we are getting hoodwinked. They are achieving nothing in this regard.

I will post an image ( a video grab) of that Hypersonic vehicle model from 20 years ago

If DRDO has a model or two & its not funded then it remains a dream.
20 years on, if they get funding and start a program, then its what it is.

Russian arms firms were showing models of R77s with fancy propulsion in air show after air show. It went nowhere. Were they bluffing or were they trying to stir up interest?

Today, they have relaunched programs but with new motors with new technologies.

Similarly, the current DRDO effort could be an entirely new program built upon entirely new technologies & infrastructure. With next to zero correlation with the original program.

They may or may not be bluffing but you need to have accurate data to make that estimation. You can't make the sort of wide ranging conclusions you are drawing without that data. Its akin to saying since their press release said a missile was launched from a tripod it was meaningless info etc as you did. To somebody who tracks this sort of stuff, it was very meaningful, for instance that bit about midcourse guidance. It was actually completely to the point & honest.

Point is get data, analyze & then draw conclusions.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Apr 2015 21:48

Vipul Dave wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Nothing surprising on Agni VI per se except more details are seen now.

According to The Hindu (Feb. 05, 2013), “We have started working on the multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles [MIRV] version [Agni-VI]. It will carry four or six warheads depending upon their weight,” DRDO missile technologists said. “The constraint is the vehicle’s mass.” Although the Union government is yet to sanction Agni-VI project, the DRDO has done all the enabling studies, finalised the missile’s design and started working on the engineering part. It had also figured out how to anchor four or six warheads in the vehicle, how to disperse them and the pattern of their dispersal
As per Bharat Karnad, MIRV was ready for the test but didn't get political approval.

Any Link?

member_28932 · Post by **member_28932** » 15 Apr 2015 09:58

Deleted Duplicate post.

member_28932 · Post by **member_28932** » 15 Apr 2015 10:01

Karan M wrote: Any Link?

As the two tests of this missile have proved, using the Russian Glonass GPS and the on-board inertial guidance system and ring laser gyroscope, 15-20 meter CEP (circular error probable — a measure of accuracy) at 5,500km range has been achieved. Moreover, armed with 4-8 MIRV (Multiple Independently-targetable Re-entry Vehicles) warheads — a technology permitting a single missile to carry multiple bombs for dispersed targeting that has been a “screwdriver’s turn away” from being test-ready but whose testing has not been approved by Manmohan Singh, the Agni-V range can be extended to intercontinental distances.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/columns ... 817217.ece

He also told me that Full composite Agni V is in making.

mody · Post by **mody** » 15 Apr 2015 10:46

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-in ... vy-2077488

From Today's DNA, DRDO developing SRSAM for Navy. Army and IAF versions to follow.
Makes the announcement about Maitri project all the more perplexing. If the Navy wanted something in the next 2-3 years, before the SRSAM came online, they could have just gone for additional Barak-1 systems. The Barak-1 from Viraat will also become available by the end of this year or early next year, as Viraat won't be going on operational duty by then.

Perhaps the Maitri announcement, just prior to PMs France visit was just to take off the pressure from the French, with regards to this project. The negotiations for the same will again meander for a while and then once the SRSAM is ready for initial tests, Maitri will be given a quite burial. Lets hope so.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 16 Apr 2015 10:15

Press Trust of India ‏@PTI_News 9m9 minutes ago

India successfully test-fires nuclear-capable Agni-III ballistic missile from a test range off Odisha coast: Defence sources.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 16 Apr 2015 10:48

Agni-III test successful, it looks like DRDO has eliminated the inter-stage grill between the first and second stage. Need to wait for clearer pictures.. Odisha News has a grainy picture showing no grill

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Apr 2015 10:51

we need to test MIRV and all-composite stages asap. with low numbers deployed it makes no sense for even A3 & A5 not to have MIRV.
we need to test and release images to the world to remove all doubt.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... esting.jpg

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 16 Apr 2015 11:05

It truly feels great that we have another successful ballistic missile launch and there is hardly a murmur, forget jubilant celebrations on BRF!

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 16 Apr 2015 11:07

And if there is a problem testing MIRVs, a few projects about multiple warhead missile for Ballistic missile defense - a very bare bone, no frills, mechanical hit-to-kill (Kinetic energy weapon type) - could do.