Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22 2015

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby member_22733 » 24 Jun 2015 21:53

Momma and four father UQ shits are muddying waters on behalf of munna. Retaliation for bringing in UN resolution?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Gagan » 24 Jun 2015 21:57

Please elaborate LokeshC ji

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby member_22733 » 24 Jun 2015 22:05

BBC MQM article and investigation of MQM cadres. You can imagine who would be doing the investigation, and who would be leaking info to BBsChit

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Comer » 24 Jun 2015 22:47

Mohtorma Christine Fair on how the Bakis fool the Khans

http://warontherocks.com/2015/06/how-pa ... nglepage=1

Some interesting, IMO, lighter tidbits

(President Musharraf even autographed a portrait of my beloved, now deceased, canine associate Ms. Oppenheimer.) :mrgreen:

The Frontier Scouts delighted us with their dances and we ate piles of kebobs in their mess hall. :rotfl:

Last edited by Comer on 24 Jun 2015 22:57, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby A_Gupta » 24 Jun 2015 22:52

^^^ Gagan, thanks! I suppose we might hope for fresh satellite picture of the Sahiwal area in 3-6 months? I'll set a reminder.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Shreeman » 24 Jun 2015 23:25

^^^A (of many) basic problem with Ms UnFairs writings is its premise -- that every country (in this instance india) should be a "good boy" and line up to curry favor from the great uncle.

It doesnt fit with the included narrative on China. But China is on a different cloud.

The inference drawn is correct. Miffed by the lack of bribes and rides in toyota hiluxes and general slavery, provided only by SDRE gardners and not by the babudom, the State department funds any and all activity that would undermine said babus.

The military aid is one aspect, the NGOs another, and religion and hooman rights follow. In the broader cheme of things, the other things hurt worse as they stop development and foment fifth columns.

Ms UnFair cant see past her equal-equalitis. Her claim to fame is to have "seen the light" beyond bakistani deception. And this is a no name maruti800 driving non-tenured junior analyst who couldnt find a better job so she could feed ms oppenheimer better.

Yet this is is the best "favorable" idiot you get. The narrative on India -- "be a good boy or be sanctioned" will never be questioned. There is utility in these noises, as shiv frequently protests. But the utility comes at a price -- affirming another not so positive narrative.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Tuvaluan » 24 Jun 2015 23:48

Shreeman wrote:Yet this is is the best "favorable" idiot you get. The narrative on India -- "be a good boy or be sanctioned" will never be questioned. There is utility in these noises, as shiv frequently protests. But the utility comes at a price -- affirming another not so positive narrative.


Well said, Sirji. I think SSridharji has made the same point before on Christine Fair. I believe Christine Fair's other opinions (on twitter mostly) outside those related to the paki army are the ones to be watched to realize this observation you just made.

She will of course claim (and has claimed) that she is not going to swerve from the US line on India outside of this narrow paki issue, so giving her too much credence on things Indian will be abused by her, just as it was abused by her mentor Uneven Stephen.

The price to be paid will be due once she starts to use her credentials of exbert that she derives from the massive herd of Indian morons who will then listen to her unquestioningly and spread her memes.

These will be the same tools in the Indian press and in "think tanks" who refused to listen to other Indians who have been saying the same things as C Fair (and more) a decade before she did. Indians who made these revelations were all dismissed a "bigoted hate mongers" by the same tools who find Ms. Fair's revelations so astoundingly awesome and go around singing praises of her awesomeness. The great wall of Idiocy that surrounds India and keeps common sense out is in good shape, clearly.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Tuvaluan » 25 Jun 2015 00:02

Nitin Pai ‏@acorn 9h9 hours ago
On Lakhvi, the learning point is that New Delhi must liaise with Beijing ahead of UN votes, at high enough levels.


This is the kind of stupid horsesh!t that passes for foreign policy expertise in India. Maybe this genius can spell out exactly what India can gain by making China a party to a bilateral issue with Pakistan -- and why exactly would china stay away from playing power politics with its position in the UN to make things comfortable for India because of such a "high level dialogue" with china before UN votes. All of this is ignoring the overall uselessness of UN as an organization and UN votes as less than worthless in real terms to India. Somehow all these folks start as realists and then take the blue pill after reading some horsesh!t about morality in foreign politics and then start to spout utter retarded nonsense that the IFS morons keep spouting all the time.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Prem » 25 Jun 2015 00:21

ISI officer involved in Kabul parliament attack, claims Afghan intelligence
Who else could do it

KABUL: Afghanistan's intelligence service says a Pakistani intelligence officer helped the Taliban carry out an attack on parliament earlier this week.Afghan intelligence services spokesman Hassib Sediqqi said Wednesday that the officer in Inter-Services Intelligence helped the Haqqani network carry out the attack outside parliament in Kabul, which killed two people and wounded more than 30 as lawmakers were meeting inside.Sediqqi said the suicide car bomb used in Monday's attack was manufactured in Peshawar, adding that Afghan authorities were made aware of the attack on June 10 and had deployed extra security.Almost a month ago, ISI and the Aghan intelligence agency— National Directorate of Security (NDS)— signed a landmark deal aimed at bolstering the fight against terrorism.Under the agreement, the two intelligence agencies would cooperate in counter-terrorism operations. An essential element of the accord was a provision for joint probe of terrorism suspects. The ISI would also equip the NDS and train its personnel.At that time, a Pakistan government official had said that the signing of the agreement represented the new-found trust between Islamabad and Kabul, particularly between their security and intelligence establishments.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby sanjaykumar » 25 Jun 2015 00:25

In contrast, it requires any number of approvals from India’s Ministry of External Affairs and Ministry of Defense to meet anyone in uniform. (This is not impossible. It is just difficult.) Persons in uniform who meet with foreigners without approval are subject to the wrath of the bureaucracy. Americans view this with suspicion and frustration. After all, if India really were under such threats from Pakistan and China, why are Indians not doing what Pakistanis do? India should consider providing more access to the military along the lines of “war tourism” noted above. Why not arrange for the 15th Corps commander in Kashmir to brief American visitors? That corps has witnessed much Pakistani perfidy. Similarly, access to the police and paramilitary outfits in Kashmir and other areas under threat would benefit India tremendously. After all, seeing is believing.



From Christine Fair. Why indeed does India not? Perhaps because it is not a banana republic. And perhaps because of the nasty caste system. Strobe Talbot narrates how Jaswant Singh's wife knitted a sweater (IIRC) for his grandchild.

One Canadian military officer (who subsequently rose in responsibility) and his wife were hosted often in the palaces of Rajasthan, and apparently loved it.

So Ms Christine, us lowly peons and scribes from the west are not particularly meaningful for IFS types.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby KLNMurthy » 25 Jun 2015 01:36

Comer wrote:Mohtorma Christine Fair on how the Bakis fool the Khans

http://warontherocks.com/2015/06/how-pa ... nglepage=1

Some interesting, IMO, lighter tidbits

(President Musharraf even autographed a portrait of my beloved, now deceased, canine associate Ms. Oppenheimer.) :mrgreen:

The Frontier Scouts delighted us with their dances and we ate piles of kebobs in their mess hall. :rotfl:


I read it. Idiotic IMO. Basically, she is saying: Americans are shallow idiots. Bakis manipulate them easily. India should also.

I don't even want to focus on the equal-equalitis. If it is right for India, we shouldn't get hung up on echandee.

The fallacy here is the assumption that India's goals with the US, like pakis' goals, can only be served by Americans indulging in idiocy. The truth is the exact opposite. Americans have to be encouraged to be smart, serious and thoughtful for them to be useful to India. And smart serious thoughtful people will, by definition, see past the flattery and are far from impressed by it. The fact that Fair sets so much store by flattery is a telling commentary on her innate caliber as an intellectual.

Her conclusion that India and the US are best served by India flattering stupid Americans manages to be absurd and criminally cynical at the same time.

BRF gurus who think she is wonderful should reconsider their evaluation.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Anujan » 25 Jun 2015 01:45

There are two ways of looking at it. The first way is "If the product is good why advertise? We don't do no stinking advertisement" this is not how the world works. Second and more realistic way of looking at it is: Satyame might Jeyate but it will Jeyate quicker if we help it on its way.

We need more PR, equating smart PR with subservience is a losing proposition. We could have workshops, tours, white papers, grants and think tanks. We need to play the game.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Anujan » 25 Jun 2015 01:49

MQM story is picking up steam. So is a new story that AAZ half brothers house was raided and ten percent & family has fled the country. If true, it signifies massive Army action against PPP and MQM to clean up karachi.

This round of Army coup in Pakistan is interesting. They have a nominal civilian chief, but Army runs the governance and foriegn policy. So people are proud of the army and pissed with the Khakhis.

If Nawaz sides with the army, he'd be riding the tiger. With no civilian allies he'll forever be army's ***** and they can lampost him whenever they want.

Interesting times.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Prem » 25 Jun 2015 01:59

Sindh Baluchistan now Part of India in this Map. Discussing MQM and Zardari Sindudesh Khumari

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Cosmo_R » 25 Jun 2015 02:02

Anujan wrote:There are two ways of looking at it. The first way is "If the product is good why advertise? We don't do no stinking advertisement" this is not how the world works. Second and more realistic way of looking at it is: Satyame might Jeyate but it will Jeyate quicker if we help it on its way.

We need more PR, equating smart PR with subservience is a losing proposition. We could have workshops, tours, white papers, grants and think tanks. We need to play the game.


First, and too good to pass up: "Satyame might Jeyate but it will Jeyate quicker if we help it on its way. "

That's where truth in advertising morphs into advertising the truth.

We need the Desi Brookings, Heritage et al going forward. This is where the bright minds park in between innings.

Now that the dynasty may have been broken, it's an opportunity to institutionalize policy.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Gus » 25 Jun 2015 02:20

either u play the game as it is played.

or sit out and sulk and complain about how stupid the game is.

either way is fine as long as our goals are attained.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Shreeman » 25 Jun 2015 03:28

Anujan wrote:There are two ways of looking at it. The first way is "If the product is good why advertise? We don't do no stinking advertisement" this is not how the world works. Second and more realistic way of looking at it is: Satyame might Jeyate but it will Jeyate quicker if we help it on its way.

We need more PR, equating smart PR with subservience is a losing proposition. We could have workshops, tours, white papers, grants and think tanks. We need to play the game.


Anujan,

This is a flawed approach. First, you have to distinguish the private action from the institutional action.

A private action is incapable of changing the system and thus either seeks to exploit or avoid the inefficiencies in the system. When it exploits, it is either for personal or corporate gain. When it avoids, it is a grass roots approach. The former, corporate benefit is the bane of bakis, uncle, uq, AND india. The latter is extremely rare. No, AAP nor the likes of asha are not an example. They are examples of former masquerading as latter. Charity is one of the bigger scams, not an example of beneficial social action. It is an attempt to avoid responsibility and rid oneself of guilt.

I would not wish any more of the former type of PR even on bakis. And the latter, as I said, is impossible in these immoral times, even for millenial events. Take the recent Nepal, Haiti, or any of the ongoing conflicts as an example.

This should provide sufficient support for the notion that private action -- in matters of national "PR" -- has obvious limitations and will never amount to anything constructively. Destruction is far easier. Individual action -- a la whistleblowers -- can do wonders in bringing things down.

The alternate aspect is institutional action. This comes with resources but must also be driven by policy and not pragmatism. It can not sidestep inefficiencies just as it can not compromise on principle. Unfortunately, this is where the answer lies. A functioning system, however bureaucratic as long as it is transparent, will be the best PR. These calls for pragmatism seek to undermine any attempts at institutionalization.

tl;dr: PR will not help satya jay. Satyamev Jayte is a fallacy. Satya hardly ever, if at all jays. Shouting from a mosque parapet does not summon the almighty. Only momeen. And no, not presstituting is not sitting by the road sulking. PR is not a replacement for action.

Gus -- Actions, not words. Speaking softly has no place when couting KIA. Only the size and use of the stick matters. Speak softly WHEN you have a stick you intend to use. Otherwise, speaking is counter productive.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Gagan » 25 Jun 2015 03:58

The truth does indeed need to be advertized.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Anujan » 25 Jun 2015 04:34

How many people know who John Nash is, because they read his Nash equilibrium and are moved by the truth and beauty of it?

How many people know who John Nash is, because Russel Crowe did a good job in the movie "A Beautiful Mind"

Replace John Nash with our struggle against Paki terror and replace Movie with Op-eds, talks and books by the likes of CFair and Lisa Curtis. Yes action is important. So is good PR.

Think back about what IG did in 1971.

I am not asking for action to be replaced with PR. Take the JK issue:

Pakis are resisting us, they train terrorists, change the demographics of PoK on their side.
We are resisting the Pakis, we hold elections, kill the terrorists on our side.

Pakis are more than willing to show off their area to diplos and think tankers and they see the bunkers there and go "Noooocullaaar Flaaashpaaaintt!!!!" If they come over to our side and see the massacres by Paki "freedom fighters" and a few aerial shots of their training camps, they will realize why this flashpoint business is nonsense. Well, the same think tankers want to see our side, have filled out the forms in triplicate and are still waiting.

Not that we are totally bad at it. We did a decent job in Kargil. Atleast nobody worth his salt believed the "Nonstate actor mujahideen freedom fighting from tiger hill" story.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby A_Gupta » 25 Jun 2015 04:50

KLNMurthy wrote:If it is right for India, we shouldn't get hung up on echandee.


The question is will a song-and-dance for visiting US State Department types, Congress people, Army people, and sundry politicians keep Pakistan from getting some arms and some billions of $$? If yes, it is worth it, it saves Indian lives.

The fallacy here is the assumption that India's goals with the US, like pakis' goals, can only be served by Americans indulging in idiocy. The truth is the exact opposite. Americans have to be encouraged to be smart, serious and thoughtful for them to be useful to India.


If idiotic Americans can be kept from supporting Pakistan with some minor effort, then catering to their idiocy may be useful.

But yes, what we really need are the serious business movers & shakers.

BRF gurus who think she is wonderful should reconsider their evaluation.


She is wonderful in one dimension, the skewering of Pakistan.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Shreeman » 25 Jun 2015 04:51

Indeed, Anujan. If you have a John Nash, you can make a movie and then money out of that movie.

In the broader sense, the policy and institutions are the John Nash. Education, yes. PR, no. Image management? Hell, no. Why everyone should know a John Nash or Ch. Charan Singh is a question in its own right.

You can also make a movie with a Snookie or a Kardashian. More people will today know a Kardashian than a Nash. Given only enough resources institutions that devolve power and policy definition, over any PR. Less than enough? No scope for PR. Road to the office, an extra office counter, a water fountain. Anything over a billboard advertising your legacy.

No, truth does not need promotion. An obscure mathematician or unnamed, unknown soldier did their job. The PR of one John Nash is spitting in the face of these countless people who contributed more. And dissuading hundreds from doing so again.

The value of PR, itself, is promoted by the best PR people. If ever there was a conflict of interest.

Dissemination and education are not PR. One does not argue for north korea or china. Or against RTI. However, posting your face over all the walls with maida for an election is not a good use of the flour, let alone your resources. It is to this last that all PR degenerates.

Hide nothing (yes, you may disagree. But we are talking policy and thus unwritten official policy by context) but wearing excessive gold also does not do you any good.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby A_Gupta » 25 Jun 2015 04:54

^^^ C.C. Fair's article is useful also to disillusion star-struck Indians who think that the American establishment (that deals with India) is all super-duper competent and clever.

PS: I think we also have to understand what game we're playing - is it chess or is it poker? (or some combination). Chess, I would say, is a mostly satyameva jayate game. But in poker you can get good hands but not win much because the other parties read you; and you can win a lot on bad hands. If you have consistently good hands you need never lose a lot and that is satyameva jayate, reality is on your side. But winning big needs more than that; and we need/want India to win big.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Shreeman » 25 Jun 2015 05:04

Anujan,

The JK aspect did not show when I wrote up the response. It is indeed an interesting case study.

The issue is not what it is made out to be. The rules are not what is promoted and parroted. And no oneexcept the PR able people can verify anything on the ground. The history is corrupted beyond any hope for analyses and various vested interests secure respective narratives.

The JK aspect suffers from lack of action. Not lack of PR. Just what has prevented free access, development, rail, road and ability to travel and live in the part that is not occupied? Not the handful of bakistanis. That is PR. And what has changed the narrative? Not PR. But actual taking the bull by the horns. Limited to certain aspects -- Kargil, Tiger Hill, Siachen, 65, 71, whatever -- no evaluation can do justice to the underlying issue.

The JK issue, or ladakh issue or AP issue is readily solved by making the place habitable, accessible and attractive. No PR will change the narrative. Every Indian being able to walk up to Tiger Hill for themselves, camera in hand?

There is no lack of PR on where Osama lived and died. And no change in narrative despite it. Osama is dead or otherwise occupied. Saeed? Dawood?

AG -- a game indicates a rule book. chess or poker. This is rules free. Rush to the lowest common denominator. Toyota hiluxes now, Ayeshas later, hubbaras for dinner. Degeneracy knows no bounds. You can not do things to impress people in this arena if there are no real underlying strengths. The only real strength is the number 1.2B. When there is a big stick besides the 1.2B, then propose the olympics. Until then, let the UNMOG rest in eyeslamgoodOrBad and watch with their binokoolars. Like the rest of the lot. CFair and all.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Rishi » 25 Jun 2015 05:33

Pk twitter has mostly done a collective "ack-thoo" at the MQM story. The reaction seems to be a lot of "BBC is carrying water for someone" rather than any sort of outrage. Very interesting

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Kashi » 25 Jun 2015 05:36

So what Unfair is saying that "Americans" (of the variety that populate the state, particularly foreign apparatus) are dumb as a dodo and string us along and we'll dance your tunes and sign the checks.

And of course, we "Americans" cannot see the facts for ourselves- we need to meet the jarnails and higher ups with lost of kababs and shababs thrown in for the mix to start believing the truth that is the Indian position.

Why would an American official need to meet the 15 Corp commander to really "understand" Paki perfidy when every US army solder from a private to the senior most general posted in Afghanistan will have sackful of testimony to that effect?

Are we really naive enough to believe that these folks who dismiss the complaints and woes of their own who are being ambushed and killed in Afghanistan (and Iraq) by Paki-nurtured terrorists, will actually care two hoots about the "eevil yeendus" suffering from Paki terror?

Unfair is handwaving and chucking peas at a random hoping some of it would go through the window she's aiming at. And reading from some of the comments here, it's not just the DDM which is taken in by this type of nonsense.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Falijee » 25 Jun 2015 06:17

The Perks Of Being A Gori Bahu In Paki - Dom :D

The Marketing Of Shaniera :) Mrs. Wasim Akram - on Paki TV - By Ms. Reham Khan :) Mrs Imran Khan

Wasim won my heart through humour: :) Shaniera Mrs Wasim Akram
:shock:

Perks of having a ‘gori bahu’

Given that Shaniera hails from Australia, when Reham Mrs. Imran Khan :D asked about his family’s reaction to his foreign bride, Wasim joked that the relationship between his mother and wife was a win-win situation for him :


But here’s the catch: my mother doesn’t know English as such and Shaniera doesn’t know Punjabi so it’s a perfect relationship,” he laughed.
:shock:

So, I guess, communication must be by the Universal Sign Language :rotfl:

When Reham Mrs. Imran Khan asked Wasim if politics were in his future, Wasim was quick to answer, “My guru (read Mr. Imran Khan ) is in politics and that works for me.”


[b][*]
Cross Marketing in Action ! :wink: ( you scratch my back , I....)

Being a single parent:[*] :shock:

As a cricketer and commentator who was always travelling, Wasim admitted that he was a typical Pakistani father who’d buy stuff for his children, talk to them for a bit but wasn’t directly involved in their lives. His late wife, Huma, catered to the children’s needs and when she passed away his sons Akbar and Taimur, who were 9 and 12 respectively, went through a hard time:


[*] Does such a concept, even exist in Ummah Societies


The Whole Farticle is Farcical !

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Shreeman » 25 Jun 2015 06:18

The reality is a lot of the aforementioned cheques are divvied up by local "industries", even more go into alphabet soup, and then some into jernail's uniphorm. Everyone gets a cut. Whitewashing it in ijrayel, eejeept or bakistan chanjes nothing. Free money never ends up in any one pocket, see - saooodi/weekileeks.

Monni will dry up like a well in karachi the day the kickbacks become diffikult. Which will be never.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby shiv » 25 Jun 2015 06:54

Comer wrote:Mohtorma Christine Fair on how the Bakis fool the Khans

http://warontherocks.com/2015/06/how-pa ... nglepage=1

Interesting that Fair says in 2015 pretty much exactly what I observed in my ebook 10 years ago. My ebook is now no longer available on BR but I will link and quote:

The sum and substance is that Americans are amenable to chamchagiri and small acts of bribery that make life better for American officials in Pakistan. Whether Indians want to do that or not is our choice
Fair says:
First, to hell with protocol. Whereas Indian protocol requires American officials to meet only their counterparts in India, Pakistanis open the doors. Even a junior analyst at a think tank (like me when I was at the RAND Corporation) can meet virtually anyone. (President Musharraf even autographed a portrait of my beloved, now deceased, canine associate Ms. Oppenheimer.) U.S. Congressional delegates are particularly delighted when they get to meet the army chief. They may have to suffer a meeting with the irrelevant prime minister, of course. But they all swoon at the army chief, who inevitably is seen as a straight shooter with whom the United States can do business. Pakistanis focus less upon what you are and more upon who you influence or may be able to influence in the future. Pakistanis invest in people as if they are assets in a portfolio of human capital.

In contrast to Indian officials who are often stiff, hectoring, disinterested, and seemingly mired in ennui, the (much higher ranked) Pakistani official is engaging, jocular, (seemingly) forthcoming, self-effacing, humorous and, always, charming. Whereas Indian ministry officials will serve you tea in a chipped mug embossed with a faded graphic of the ministry’s logo, Pakistani hosts will serve their hosts coffee or tea in a mug … and they will even gift you with that mug. The Pakistanis have studied what Americans like and how best to cater to these preferences. Right down to the mug. This gives rise to the chattering among diplomats, journalists, scholars and think tank analysts who visit both countries and aver enthusiastically that “The Pakistanis may lie like rugs and kill our troops while robbing us blind, but they sure are friendly!”


Here is a quote from my ebook on the chapter on Pakistani psyche
http://pakistanfailedstate.blogspot.in/ ... neral.html
The characteristic of being extremely hospitable and generous to guests has stood Pakistanis and Pakistan in good stead. No visitor to Pakistan goes away without being touched by this, and this characteristic has been used to good effect by Pakistan over the years.

An article in the American magazine, The Weekly Standard had this to say in its Nov 5th 2001 edition:

..the attractive character of elite Pakistani officials. Compared with their haughty Indian and chaotic Afghan neighbors, Pakistani VIPs are often wittier, warmer, and more knowledgeable about the insider gossip of U.S. politics. American diplomats and spooks often have a good deal of fun with their Westernized Pakistani counterparts. As one congressional staffer, who frequently visits south-central Asia, succinctly put it, “I like ‘em; the Indians are jerks.”

A series of Western writers and prominent people have been hosted and feted in Pakistan, and have later served as honorary ambassadors for Pakistan in the Western media.

One prominent example is the famous American pilot, Chuck Yeager, who was a guest of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and who later went on to write paeans about the PAF For many years after the PAF was comprehensively defeated in successive wars with India, Yeager’s words of praise of the Pakistan Air Force continued to be quoted, maintaining a reputation for the PAF that extended far beyond its real performance.

Pakistani hospitality has charmed a large number of prominent writers to write positively about Pakistan, and some have gone as far as to make needlessly hostile and malicious references to India in their writings despite strong evidence that their words are misinformed at best, and often just plain wrong. Prominent among people who have written warm words for Pakistan are writers like Brian Cloughley, Eric Margolis and John Fricker.

As recently as June 2002, the Washington Post reported:

It was mid afternoon Tuesday, and Anwar Mahmood, Pakistan’s information secretary, was on the phone discussing with an underling how to keep more than 100 foreign journalists happy for the rest of the week...if it keeps the reporters satisfied, he figured, it’s worth the $3,000 it will cost his ministry to rent the plane from Pakistan International Airlines...The Pakistani government, eager to make its voice heard, has ordered foreign embassies to expedite visas for journalists...Five times in the past month, the Information Ministry has rented air-conditioned buses to carry journalists to the Line of Control... There they are treated to hour-long military briefings, complete with maps, displays of Indian mortar shells—and tea sandwiches served on trays by white-gloved soldiers. You won’t get such hospitality from the Indian army
.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby amit » 25 Jun 2015 08:07

^^^

I'd say a big thumbs up to the Indian Army and Babudom. What C Fair is saying is that the Americans want another ==
between the India and Pakistan. 'Look how the Pakis treat us like royalty, even when our bosses treat us like dirt (look at the number of US soldiers killed by the Pakis every year), at least you In'juns can try to do something similar? If you don't I'll give you bad publicity!'

I'd say go ahead and take a hike! Next time the Army should offer Marie biscuits which have been kept out in the open for a couple of days and Andhra curry with loads of chillis for lunch/dinner so that they understand why we poor In'juns prefer water to tissue when we visit our Pakistans. And yes the food should be served by a paan chewing, fat bellied subhedar with a big moustache, I'm sure they can get one on deputation from the Delhi or Haryana police.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Anujan » 25 Jun 2015 08:39

http://tribune.com.pk/story/909347/esta ... nst-altaf/

The country’s security establishment will seek registration of a treason case against Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) chief Altaf Hussain in the wake of BBC’s claim that his party received funds and training from India.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby KLNMurthy » 25 Jun 2015 09:11

A_Gupta wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:If it is right for India, we shouldn't get hung up on echandee.


The question is will a song-and-dance for visiting US State Department types, Congress people, Army people, and sundry politicians keep Pakistan from getting some arms and some billions of $$? If yes, it is worth it, it saves Indian lives.

The fallacy here is the assumption that India's goals with the US, like pakis' goals, can only be served by Americans indulging in idiocy. The truth is the exact opposite. Americans have to be encouraged to be smart, serious and thoughtful for them to be useful to India.


If idiotic Americans can be kept from supporting Pakistan with some minor effort, then catering to their idiocy may be useful.

But yes, what we really need are the serious business movers & shakers.

BRF gurus who think she is wonderful should reconsider their evaluation.


She is wonderful in one dimension, the skewering of Pakistan.

The way I look at it, India has already been handling the consequences of paki flattery directed at the shallow idiot variety of Americans. This species is of no use to get what India really needs from the US, which is cooperation in coercing pakistan to adjust its attitude, because that needs more knowledge, clarity and depth in the upstairs compartment.

True, in the short term, it may be argued, flattering the idiots among the Americans may buy a temporary mitigation of paki attacks and "save" some Indian lives. But there is no way to tell whether the same result could not have been obtained by a few extra growls from team Modi. On the other hand, there is no way to lock in the short-term flattery-driven gains. Can you forsee a scenario of flattery arms race between India and Pakistan, both falling over each other to rope in more idiots to flatter, with pakistan desperately out-flattering India so that it can feel free to launch a terrorist attack large enough to make up for the attacks it was forced to suspend because India temporarily out-flattered pakistan?

Can you see how absurd the game is, which Far is prodding us to play?
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 25 Jun 2015 09:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby kulhari » 25 Jun 2015 09:13

I'd say go ahead and take a hike! Next time the Army should offer Marie biscuits which have been kept out in the open for a couple of days and Andhra curry with loads of chillis for lunch/dinner so that they understand why we poor In'juns prefer water to tissue when we visit our Pakistans. And yes the food should be served by a paan chewing, fat bellied subhedar with a big moustache, I'm sure they can get one on deputation from the Delhi or Haryana police.

:rotfl:

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Avinash R » 25 Jun 2015 09:48

Dear Biradars, Read Christine Fair's article in full before firing. Its well worth the money if by buttering a few American diplomats we can get Washington's support against Bakistani terrorism

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby chetak » 25 Jun 2015 10:05

amit wrote:^^^

I'd say a big thumbs up to the Indian Army and Babudom. What C Fair is saying is that the Americans want another ==
between the India and Pakistan. 'Look how the Pakis treat us like royalty, even when our bosses treat us like dirt (look at the number of US soldiers killed by the Pakis every year), at least you In'juns can try to do something similar? If you don't I'll give you bad publicity!'

I'd say go ahead and take a hike! Next time the Army should offer Marie biscuits which have been kept out in the open for a couple of days and Andhra curry with loads of chillis for lunch/dinner so that they understand why we poor In'juns prefer water to tissue when we visit our Pakistans. And yes the food should be served by a paan chewing, fat bellied subhedar with a big moustache, I'm sure they can get one on deputation from the Delhi or Haryana police.


you forgot the belly dances. Very important for Ms fair.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby g.sarkar » 25 Jun 2015 10:35

shiv wrote:The sum and substance is that Americans are amenable to chamchagiri and small acts of bribery that make life better for American officials in Pakistan. Whether Indians want to do that or not is our choice

When India did not do that in the 50s, 60s, 70s or even later, when India's behavior meant whether US wheat would be released or not, chances are that it will not happen. India is far stronger now. Ms. Fair should not hold her breath.
Gautam

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby member_28840 » 25 Jun 2015 10:47

No one discussing Zaid Hamid getting in trouble?

https://twitter.com/bharatrakshak/statu ... 4432196608
"Zaid Hamid 8 Years Jail and 1200 Lashes"

I am rubbing my hands in glee right now :)

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby amit » 25 Jun 2015 11:48

Avinash R wrote:Dear Biradars, Read Christine Fair's article in full before firing. Its well worth the money if by buttering a few American diplomats we can get Washington's support against Bakistani terrorism


Boss the problem I have with this is the assumption that those who can make a difference in respect of getting "Washington's support against Bakistani terrorism" are taken in by stupid flattery like Musharaff autographing a picture of a dog or the serving of hot piping kebabs by white gloved stewards and Army tea mugs as souvenirs.

Nope these guys know exactly what is happening on the ground and due to some bullshit strategic reasons are happy with it even though US lives are put to risk. To think that if India also grovels in front of lightweight delegations (the really high powered ones don't meet Army staff they meet the politicos in India) like the Pakistanis do then all will be well is - forgive me for saying this - a very simplistic assessment of how realpolitik is played.

IMO we will get support against Bakistani terrorists when the Amir Khans - not the ones who visit the LOC on the Pak side in air-conditioned buses - who run policy see a cost benefit calculation which shows them diminishing returns from this policy.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby arun » 25 Jun 2015 11:51

arun wrote:#RAWattacksAfghanParliament: How Pakistan Twitter blamed the Taliban attack on India :

How brazen can brazen be? Consider the voices emanating from Pakistan over Monday’s terror attack on the Afghan parliament and this question will ring out loudly.

Many Pakistanis seriously believe that India’s Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) choreographed the terror attack on Afghan parliament. #RAWattacksAfghanParliament has been the top trending subject on Pakistan Twitter since news of attack on Afghan parliament broke out. ................

Needless to say, such campaigns on social media are an integral feature of the psyops of Pakistani intelligence and security establishments. Consider some of the tweets soaked in malicious Pakistani propaganda. .......................



The twitter link follows:

https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/RAWA ... t?src=hash


The Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s claims of the involvement of India in the attack on Afghanistan’s Parliament has been trashed by the Afghan’s pointing out a connection to where else but the Land of the Pure and the Home of the Mohammadden Terrorist.

Afghan intelligence services spokesman Hassib Sediqqi said the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Punjabi dominated Military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan via its notoriously Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting intelligence arm the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate aka ISID aka ISI helped the Un-uniformed Mohammadden Terrorists of the Haqqani network carry out the attack outside parliament, which killed two people and wounded more than 30 as lawmakers were meeting inside. Afghan intelligence services spokesman Hassib Sediqqi identified the ISID/ISI officer as Bilal, without providing his full name:

Pakistan officer was involved in parliament attack, Afghanistan authorities say

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby K Mehta » 25 Jun 2015 12:15

Are you guys that gullible to believe that this pandering of the khan elites has been happening against the wishes of the amriki establishment? In fact it is happening under their guidance. In which case how wise is it to increase their access to the army?

Use intelligence department to cultivate the folks instead, as is being done by bakis, the khakis the amrikis meet are all agency khakis.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Postby Multatuli » 25 Jun 2015 12:16

Gagan wrote:

The truth does indeed need to be advertized.


Gaganji, in the world we live in, the truth is in dire need of 'advertisement'. The Indian education system and media program people to think that up is down, that black is white, etc.. If we do not constantly counter the lies the adversary (for example the Indian National Congress, the Communists, the 'Indian' and Western Media) propagate, than many ordinary people will start to believe it. Repeat/reinforce a lie a thousand times and it becomes the truth for most. Only a *tiny* minority will still be able to discern between the truth and falsehood.


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