Indian Education System

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 28 Jun 2015 16:22

Josh: what you are saying is unavoidable even in the govt. school system if English is the medium of instruction. One needs to learn English pretty well to understand any kind of complex idea either in humanities or in stem (m of stem might be a little resistant to that but still). The only way to get there is to read/memorize/internalize English classics and Possibly pulp as well. They are euro/anglo centric.

The real problem is we do not have even basic scientific writings in most of the Indian languages. It is double edged sword.

Privatization is going to be too little in the short term. To develop large scale privatization takes decades but would be too late to help India.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 28 Jun 2015 17:00

In any school , whether government or private , 11 and 12th grade education is mainly self learning these days , with or without "tuition classes " . The only thing in school I found useful in +2 , was the labs as practicals were not taught in tuitions ..But these days even practical labs are taught in tuition classes... It has become such big a business ...

The guy who taught me physics was new to business back then .. Sad story from the Indian perspective is that he was a PhD with post doc in US , who could not find tenure.. He joined the local university in Guj..and began teaching class 11/12 for "extra income" .. I met him 2 weeks ago and now has 2000 + students for entrance/ + 2 coaching and has people that teach every subject. He even has labs that teach practicals...Charges 55000 INR package for PCM and 100000 for 2 years including entrances/practical .. He considers himself lucky to never get tenure.. He pays 2-3 lakh pm to his teachers..And has been raided by the IT department on occasions ...

General advice by most teachers give is to get the students to bunk school for the entire year and turn up only for exams... attend tuition classes the whole day...

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 28 Jun 2015 19:12

Josh wrote:Respective state governments? How? RTE Act is passed by the Central Government, Education is in the concurrent list. State Governments can only form RULES, which has to be inside the guidelines of the ACT passed by the Central Government.

Yes, I am a Malayalee (an wearing a thin lungee

). And what I was commenting against was the demand that Modi should do some thing about it, right now. May be that is not what you meant, but I thought it was once again approaching Modi with a laundry list of problems and asking him to sit and solve it. The RTE Act can be amended to include minority institutions (which is the right way); but don't think Modi can push it through easily in the Rajya Sabha where "seculars" still hold sway. Now even if that approach, I don't think judiciary is also very favourable to Modi government. And off course the current government does not have the numbers to amend the constituition. So may be the current government has some plans on this, but may be quite lower down the priority. I understand that you are keeping the Kerala situation in mind, but I don't know if the minority educational establishments hold such one-sided privileges all across the country. After Kerala, may be in cities across India they may have advantages.

They also have schools in poor conditions because most of them dont have the capital, that minorities have in Kerala.

Perhaps a simpler way (a short term goal) may be to help these school generate money, so that they can get over the current problems. At present, I don't think the money power of the minority groups in Kerala can be plugged fully and quickly. BTW, I do feel that minority religions also have a plan for a take over of such non-minority schools by either offering huge sums of money, or even clearly playing up the personal or caste based egos in the existing management of such schools.

But even more worrisome,if the Hindu schools take this money, which they will be forced to as per law, they will also be defacto handing over the control of the school and even its landed properties to the government

I did not get this part. The government is only paying a grant for the RTE admissions, so how can it demand rights over the school's property? Can you provide me a link to this provision?

Theo_Fidel wrote:The middle class has abandoned the public schooling system and all kinds of weird agendas are promoted as being necessary for good schooling. A good public schooling system has no need for an agendas other than an adherence to facts, even if uncomfortable and reality

In Kerala, the government schools lost mainly due to the over-politicisation of both the teachers and the students. Politics is all fine, and even the students can be taught about it. But when it comes to using them as cannon fodder the problem starts. And the teaching community was no better, we have cases where teachers have landed up in schools with crude bombs

. May be this trend started in the late 1970s and went on over 1980s and 1990s.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Jun 2015 19:59

Josh wrote:In a country the size of India, and with the problems of India, The government alone cannot provide everything, especially education

Sorry for the blunt language but this is nonsense.

Most of the rest of the first world accomplished this in the horse and buggy era. Do you know that in 1870 USA with its continental mass had 80%+ literacy rate for men, bit lower for women. All of it through public schools in every mountain top and every crany. TN & KL both have very high literacy largely on the back of government schools. If they can do it so can all others. If the thinking amongst the elite is that India can get to 100% education and 100% high school education with private schools they are wrong.

India does have schools in every nook and cranny of the country. How can one say government can not do this. In the deep depths of CG I have observed Government schools in every tiny village, alittle blue building with a small quadrangle out front. these are places without even an electric connection. The problems all have to do with other items from pathetic teacher pay, to terrible infrastructure, to poor noon meals, to terrible racism and misogyny. Private schools are not equipped to handle any of these problems.

The entire point of private schools in India is to stratify society. One level of education for one group of people and another level of education for others.

I'm still confused why someone would oppose more hindus going to hindu schools under RTE. If it is amended won't more hindus start going to christian schools? The logic escapes me....

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 28 Jun 2015 20:04

^^^ Post by gakakkad
I do not know about the situation in the rest of the country but in Mumbai region, very few students attend class in college in the +2 stage(Junior college).Majority of the students attend classes shelling out anything upto 3 lacks (package for XI , XII and the entrance exams). If you take admission in any of this classes, then the students are exempt from the minimum 75% attendance criteria in colleges and classes exhibit this feature as a "tie-up".The professors in the college give very few lectures and very often combine them for quorum.They instead have a packed schedule teaching the various coaching classes earning lucrative per hour compensation.

Vriksh · Post by **Vriksh** » 28 Jun 2015 21:11

Why should be not leverage the fundamental market forces that the Tuition class market represents. Heck I would hire a topper from a tuition class rather than the colleges themselves. Agreed that the education is not well rounded but atleast in STEM, accounting and other lucrative subjects the Tuition classes are providing a stellar service. Teachers are well paid and motivated and students typically learn very well.

And the system is capable of scaling very well. Smart students could be press ganged to being teachers given the lucrative pay packages. Essentially a new type of Guru Shishya Parampara

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 28 Jun 2015 21:42

there would be obvious sustainability issues ..because u are teaching students so that they can become teachers to teach other students...that is obviously not sustainable ...one might remember IIPM..The onlee job they get is to teach at IIPM .

the thing is that tuitions onlee prepare for exams...that is not necessarily teaching STEM...We know that we can get MBBS/B.Tech degree without actully understanding the subject...not saying that is not a problem in the west...Kaplan is the amreeki version of Allen or career point or whatever.

thing is that barring some really smart people , most people would not be able to answer 20% paper 6 months after the exam...most exams have a fixed pattern...tuition end up teaching for answering the pattern...most cases subject is not taught...

in my time there was a chemistry teacher who would make baccha log stand on the desk and recite groups of periodic table ...the state board tuition teachers were horrible....they would get people to cram important theorems / problems and get them to recite verbally...

We are in deep crap... closing eyes won't change that ...

because we ll have worlds largest collection of unemployable engineers and science degree holders in the world ,,,that is not a good thing...and sadly it is self inflicted onlee...

parents would probably look at mark sheet...but not likely to bother whether baccha log understands a damn thing or not...

to make matters worse , the best and brightest that do come out end up working in management or IT-Vity or emigrate to unkil...

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 28 Jun 2015 21:54

http://www.hindustantimes.com/higherstu ... 63608.aspx

The usual whines about dilution, too fast expansion, lack of faculty, facilities and research...only thing missing is the forum favorite macaulay. If you do not know how to do it, bloody well just ask the Chinese for help.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 28 Jun 2015 22:06

Theo_Fidel wrote: The entire point of private schools in India is to stratify society. One level of education for one group of people and another level of education for others.
.

Spot on mate.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 28 Jun 2015 22:19

gakakkad wrote:there would be obvious sustainability issues ..because u are teaching students so that they can become teachers to teach other students...that is obviously not sustainable ...one might remember IIPM..The onlee job they get is to teach at IIPM .

.

I have made a suggestion in the past, which i would like to just repeat. Why not permit non teachers to also teach in schools? I would gladly donate a day in a week on no pay to teach something in school.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 28 Jun 2015 23:01

panduranghari: Yes. In fact all those who are retired - in India the retirement age is 58-60 which is quite young for now a days - should do this. It is akin to vAnaprastha where as today all of them while away their time taking care of grand kids or religious activities. The former is part of grihastya and the latter is part of sanyasa.

As for your doing it, would you go to place x, say Allandi, every week even if you are working in a big city close by, viz Pune? Places like Allandi and smaller rural villages are the places where there is a need for motivating and motivated teachers. A personal rapport needs to be built with the students to know what are strengths and weaknesses and talents of each of the students.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 29 Jun 2015 00:20

I would. Honestly. A while back when I worked in Mumbai 6 days a week 8 to 6, I still on Sunday used to undertake free dental treatment for tribals close to Vajreshwari at Swami Nityananda Ashram which was about 1.5 hour from where I was. Besides I wasn't a disciple of Swami Nityananda nor was it influenced by my family. As said, where there is a will, there is a way. Today with 2 kids, I may not be able to do every Sunday, but I could take a day off in the week if need be.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 29 Jun 2015 01:27

saar, all I can say is that you are an outlier. Also, it is better if you provide free dental care instead of teaching to middle schoolers. The latter task can be done by others but for dental care has to be provided by a dentist. It is hard to get medical care in rural areas, especially dental care. IMHO of course.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 29 Jun 2015 03:34

panduranghari wrote:
Theo_Fidel wrote: The entire point of private schools in India is to stratify society. One level of education for one group of people and another level of education for others.
.
Spot on mate.

Wait wait, so public schools offering sh*t education aren't the reason. It's those retarded parents who like school choice. Absurd logic. Get rid of coaching centers while your at it - "another level of education for others"

Instead of blaming the symptom (private schools), why not reform public school education. We need more skills development and less hours sitting in a class teaching Akbars greatness, and rote learning which are mostly useless in today's work culture.

member_27845 · Post by **member_27845** » 29 Jun 2015 09:18

Theo_Fidel wrote:^^^
For most of our history any type of education, esp. modern education was actively denied at the pain of death to the majority. And you did not need any macaulay to do that. We did it to ourselves.

Theo : can you back up the above statement with any shred of evidence ?

" at the pain of death to the majority " - really ? and this so called majority was actively denied by which minority ? Do you mean religious minorities ( like say , Muslims and Christians )

Or the majority denied an education to itself ?

csaurabh · Post by **csaurabh** » 29 Jun 2015 09:37

VijayR wrote:
Theo_Fidel wrote:^^^
For most of our history any type of education, esp. modern education was actively denied at the pain of death to the majority. And you did not need any macaulay to do that. We did it to ourselves.

Theo : can you back up the above statement with any shred of evidence ?

" at the pain of death to the majority " - really ? and this so called majority was actively denied by which minority ? Do you mean religious minorities ( like say , Muslims and Christians )

Or the majority denied an education to itself ?

Dat old canard that education was denied to the 'majority' because yeevil hindoo caste system..
Quite incorrect of course. According to British records, primary school education was available to pretty much everyone..

https://www.saddahaq.com/history-of-ind ... ion-system

It was only AFTER the native education system had been destroyed ( and replaced with Macaulayite muggings ) that education became expensive and denied to the vast majority.

IIRC Gandhi said the same thing on multiple occasions. Literacy and general education rate had plummeted under British rule.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 29 Jun 2015 10:41

RoyG wrote: Wait wait, so public schools offering sh*t education aren't the reason. It's those retarded parents who like school choice. Absurd logic. Get rid of coaching centers while your at it - "another level of education for others"

Instead of blaming the symptom (private schools), why not reform public school education. We need more skills development and less hours sitting in a class teaching Akbars greatness, and rote learning which are mostly useless in today's work culture.

Just like most problems in India, there was always an intent to keep things as 'they are, for over 60 years. It fulfils the goals of congress and its western masters.

Poor basic education forces parents into shelling out much more that they can afford for even the basic education i.e primary and secondary. To fulfil this, private schools sprout up promising everything from international board to cambridge standards. The parents under naive assumption that these schools are good, keep the system as it is. There is no incentive from the grass roots to change the status quo.

It goes back to the days of EIC when the education was seen as a way to break the society. Only English educated people got jobs and promotions. The same thing has continued. The congress governments one after another chose to ignore this.

Also the 'rote' learning has a place so much so that we are still producing slaves to work for the west. The west is where we have always been encouraged to eventually go.That is what 'English' education delivered in India is meant to achieve. This is what many if not most parents in India want for their children. Eventually migrate to the west. Unless school syllabus is not designed to solve national problems, we will never have a equitable system. I, however, see a change on the horizon. There are 2 catalysists- one a very proactive current government and second the financial decimation of the west. My 2p.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 29 Jun 2015 19:03

Right, so that comes back to my original point.

Theo and many indians have this habit of treating the symptom instead of the disease.

People have trouble getting good loans - Modi has arrived, please drop interest rates drastically - Public spending and inflation are high.

CAD issue - We need to stop importing gold - Public spending and inflation are high on top of lack of well developed alternative investments.

Stratification of society - Private schools are the culprit - Public school education is sh*t.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 29 Jun 2015 19:24

Of course public schooling is dire. But private schooling is not as good as it's made out to be either. I doubt Theo is suggesting treatment of symptoms. But treating symptoms is essential when a patient with terminal cancer has no hope. The system is dying as it is. What we need to look out for is- what type of new system arises from this?

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 29 Jun 2015 20:37

The British had a tendency to white wash a lot of things. I wouldn’t read too much into their data, nice that they separate folks out into the various castes. Lots of warm feelings there. I have data in my possession from my family that says so. I would point out that the literacy rate at 1947 in India overall was 12%. Which the British conveniently white wash. Almost everyone we know in India is first-second generation literate, except for a fortunate few. I am one of the fortunate few and I never forget it. A lot of our problems WRT public education can be traced to this poor start, but it is debatable.

Forget Caste system, think education of women. For most of History, Women were the majority in India (until recently) and for the majority going to school was strictly prohibited. As late as 1930’s when my Grandma went to medical school in Madurai as the first batch of 3 women, a minor riot broke out and the Medical superintendent was beaten to death. My Grandma and one other woman who mustered up the courage were then transferred to Chennai and when that proved difficult to CMC Vellore. All things are relative of course and compared to today even British society was horribly repressive towards women at that time. Still we were a long way behind even those modest freedoms at that time.

And yes the caste system is evil and needs to be destroyed this is not in doubt, and the fact that people will joke about this is depressing. But OT on these boards.
-------------------------

Vaijay,

Look up the Vibuthi Sangam riots. My family records show that over 30 schools were destroyed in one year. At least 2 teachers killed. This is just one community.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 29 Jun 2015 22:13

You cannot destroy caste system without destroying India as it is.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 29 Jun 2015 22:31

panduranghari wrote:Of course public schooling is dire. But private schooling is not as good as it's made out to be either. I doubt Theo is suggesting treatment of symptoms. But treating symptoms is essential when a patient with terminal cancer has no hope. The system is dying as it is. What we need to look out for is- what type of new system arises from this?

Of course private education isn't up to par either. Blocking choice isn't a solution though. What I propose is starting school at age 6-7. Maybe do away with 11-12 standard altogether. Most kids do coaching anyway around that time. What's the point in going to school, coming home, and then coaching? Start a nationwide apprenticeship program. Most kids don't need to go to college for most fields outside of theoretical mathematics, science, engineering, social science etc.

I like Rajiv Malhotra's idea of starting a nationwide community service project. Pick couple hundred projects in each state and give the students incentives for taking 1-2 years off to volunteer. Yoga, meditation, PT, etc shouldn't be neglected either.

The less said about how state and national gov. approve textbooks, the better. The entire system needs a revamp. We need to form a commission to look at different teaching styles that are conducive for building social skills, confidence, and creativity.

When I taught at a Charter School, the administration let me do away with the victorian arrangement of desks in the class and even let me teach outside most of the time. I had 30+ kids per class. They were even thinking about implementing yoga and meditation in class until some jesus freak parents made a big deal about it. In my experience, uniforms don't really do much of anything and neither does separating boys and girls.

As far as the material is concerned, I focused on building strong basics in science and math. I normally lectured 15-20 min per class. Any more than that and the students normally dosed off. I would pair the students up or used group learning to promote cooperative learning and we normally had competitions.

Board exams in my experience don't work. If the kid knows that he as some sort of internship waiting for him by 10th or 11th grade and the parents take an interest in education, it's incentive enough. If need be, there can be a critical skills exam which integrates many different areas of learning including math and science. Maybe we can look at a few models proposed by those who have studied the Aurobindo model.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 29 Jun 2015 22:38

panduranghari wrote:You cannot destroy caste system without destroying India as it is.

How can we destroy caste without destroying reservations? This requires a fundamental rethink of what it means to be Indian/Bhartiya. We should focus on promoting Jati which was what we had before. Focus heavily on apprenticeships and jobs. Education should prepare a student for that. Theoretical/higher level fields belong in college.

College is another area of education that needs drastic reform. The scale of our research is pathetic.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 30 Jun 2015 08:34

RoyG: where did you get "blocking choice"? Private-public are not mutually exclusive. We have an extensive public school system which needs to be leveraged. If private schools want to participate why not? But the mission cannot be left to the vagaries and calculations of private parties alone. It is too important a mission for that and the stakes are very high - higher than even control of temple funds or conversions or even defense.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 30 Jun 2015 09:26

The private and public models are mutually exclusive. In particular, the profit motive kills any remaining "education" in the public model. Denying it is removed from reality.

Remarkably too, there is no discussion of the fact that tution/coaching classes survive on "results". And they use any possible means to keep producing said results. Not overy often, honest means either.

The coaching culture is the death of education in India.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 30 Jun 2015 12:22

Can results be made 'redundant'? Make apprenticeships mandatory as RoyG ji has said. 'रट्टा मार' culture will die its death.

csaurabh · Post by **csaurabh** » 30 Jun 2015 13:08

Shreeman wrote: The coaching culture is the death of education in India.

I am not too sure of that. Sure they are exploitative and expensive, but atleast they have some motivation to teach because without result the student will not go there. School teachers rarely bother teaching anything..

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 30 Jun 2015 14:07

Shreeman wrote:The private and public models are mutually exclusive. In particular, the profit motive kills any remaining "education" in the public model. Denying it is removed from reality.

Remarkably too, there is no discussion of the fact that tution/coaching classes survive on "results". And they use any possible means to keep producing said results. Not overy often, honest means either.

The coaching culture is the death of education in India.

several years ago a big scam was caught from PGI chandigarh PG entrance test... some coaching institute was implicated...

AIPMT paper leak 10 years ago also had links to some "coaching institutes"

I think online lectures and teaching can make a big difference..Khan academy is freely available...quality of teaching is excellent for high school/ first year college level stuff etc...

Gov't could develop a lecture series for all grades and online practice software ....

and a well designed computer based standardized test...

this could actually make coaching institutes redundant...

There is no other way...we don't have quality teachers in sufficient number and it ll take 1 or 2 generations before the gap can possibly be filled....forget rural schools , the quality of teaching in average middle class school is way below par...only the expensive CBSE/ICSE/IB schools are any good...and that too no value for money...I mean they ll charge as much as 1-1.5 lakh INR (8000 PPP dollars , equivalent of many western private schools ) and have quality nowhere near them...

Ask a class 12th 90% + scorer basic questions like how is the volume of a sphere 4/3 pi r^3 or why does fat provide more energy than carbohydrate ,or why would temperature of the room rise if you keep the fridge open . odds are that he won't be able to answer ..

niran · Post by **niran** » 30 Jun 2015 14:39

gakakkad wrote:
I think online lectures and teaching can make a big difference..Khan academy is freely available...quality of teaching is excellent for high school/ first year college level stuff etc...

Gov't could develop a lecture series for all grades and online practice software ....

and a well designed computer based standardized test...

this could actually make coaching institutes redundant...

janab how will a baburam from somewherepur who studies in somewherepur paathshala where the only masterji sir comes to distribute and eat midday meal get the knowledge to operate the computer? since to take an online test you need to have the knowhow to operate, yes? the answer is private coaching of course, one coaching to operate another to get the knowledge to answer the test.

this online wonline testawa is from the airconditioned affice solutions saar, drastic change from the groundup saar, regular clases in each and every paathshala, ishkool, school, there are around 5 million retired PCS/IAS/Armed forces officers who are educated experienced and twiddling their thumbs,

this onree traine teachers can teach

farce should be abolished.

uh!oh! tis already evening time to packup and have evening tea with SHQ after sooo tiring work (CYA)

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 30 Jun 2015 15:15

^^ Sir , look at the statistics of whooping number of Indians who use MIT open coursewhere ..

http://ocw.mit.edu/about/site-statistics/

A sizeable number use this in India..

http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelnoer ... education/

15 years ago no one would have thought that every Indian will soon own a cell phone.. Presently 25% Indian population has Internet acess..And that is rising rapidly...Modi is a master of implementation..sure he can pull this off...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Jun 2015 15:43

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/delh ... 46627.html

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 30 Jun 2015 23:50

Shreeman wrote:The private and public models are mutually exclusive. In particular, the profit motive kills any remaining "education" in the public model. Denying it is removed from reality.

Remarkably too, there is no discussion of the fact that tution/coaching classes survive on "results". And they use any possible means to keep producing said results. Not overy often, honest means either.

The coaching culture is the death of education in India.

How did you get to the point where parents feel it's necessary to pull their kids out of public school? If they had a choice, most parents would rather not pay for school. Don't blame the symptom. Blame the problem. Denying it is removed from reality.

The fundamentals in schooling have undergone a radical departure from jati (guild) promoting models. The first error committed by the GoI was not adopting sanskrit as a link language for India. Instead we opted for english and retained the colonial sepoy creating system of standardized testing for all major branches of government in English. What this does is create a learning deficit in all areas because extra time has to be spent by the student transitioning to a foreign language.

Moreover, HOW children are taught has also shifted to rote learning instead of creative and value based learning. Rote has its place, but it should only occupy a minority of time. On top of that, we then have these stupid board exams which don't make one bit of difference to most children taking them. Everything rests on how well you score. This is illogical. If parents and children know that there is a national apprenticeship service and their kid will be making a little money on the side while learning the trade in and out all these coaching institutions will die overnight.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Jul 2015 00:11

Shreeman wrote:The private and public models are mutually exclusive. ...
The coaching culture is the death of education in India.

Shreeman ji: When I say "private" i am not limiting it to coaching instis only. I am certainly not including for-profit academies. The discussion is more on the lines of, say DPS, or Doon School or Don Bosco vs. your run -of-the mill street corner govt. school or one which runs out of thatched huts (in rural areas).

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Jul 2015 00:21

gakakkad wrote:...forget rural schools , the quality of teaching in average middle class school is way below par...only the expensive CBSE/ICSE/IB schools are any good...and that too no value for money...I mean they ll charge as much as 1-1.5 lakh INR (8000 PPP dollars , equivalent of many western private schools ) and have quality nowhere near them...

Some prep schools in US charge $45-50K PA. That is PA for 4 years 9-12 which is in the same ballpark as out-of-state Berkeley or private colleges like Harvard, MIT, UChicago. I have sent my son reluctantly to a private school 6-8 which costed me upwards of $12K PA. Reason was that middle schools are where children - especially male - get into trouble like drugs, smoking and alcohol (in US). What I heard is that the same holds for chi-chi schools in Hyderabad where some kids (male and female) are getting into smoking and provocative dressing. Provocative dressing by itself is niether good nor bad unless it starts acting as a gateway to promiscuity, shopping addiction, etc. where money from parents is not enough/dries up. To fuel their addictions the kids get into bad company and start going the route of prostitution, drug trade, shop lifting, etc.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 01 Jul 2015 01:30

NSSO data reveal literacy rate up from 64.5% to 69.1%

The literacy rate in India improved considerably to 69.1 per cent in January-June 2014, compared to 64.5 per cent some six years back, showed data released by the National Sample Survey Office (NSSO).

The data also showed the government lagged far behind those of private entities in education and health. However, it should be noted that the previous survey was carried out for a full year from July 2007-June 2008.

The literacy rate improved in both rural and urban areas , from 60 per cent to 64.7 per cent in the former and 77.1 per cent to 79.5 per cent in the latter between 2007 and 2008 and in the first six months of 2014.

Besides, both female and male literacy rates showed improvement, from 56.3 per cent to 62 per cent in the former and from 72.1 per cent to 75.7 per cent in the latter.

The data is not of Census but of a small sample consisting of 4,577 villages and 3,720 urban blocks across the country.

There was an improvement in all age groups as well. The rate was up from 71.8 per cent to 76 per cent in five years of age and above. In age group of seven years and above, there were 75.4 per cent literate people now compared to 71.7 per cent then.

The literacy rate was 70.5 per cent of those aged 15 years and above, against 66 per cent.

Among the states, the lowest literacy was recorded in Andhra Pradesh - 66.8 per cent and highest in Mizoram - 96.2 per cent. In education, rural students increasingly switched to private institutions although a significant percentage still went to government ones. In urban areas, the figure was even more dismal.

Just over 75% literacy among 5-15 category sounds really poor. It would be interesting to see how this is distributed nationwide. This particular category needs to be at >90%.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 01 Jul 2015 12:50

even in my school , these dins booze , sleaze and pot has become a problem...

my nephew in NJ goes to a public school..says it is good...but is in a Indic dominated area ...Usually indics steer clear of these things...but yes you can't find a good public school everywhere in unkil and private schools can certainly get you nanga...beepuls tell me that AP/IB schools have college level fees...i am already dhoti shivering at the prospects of having kids by the end of the decade....because these issues so far were onlee for debating here and elsewhere...

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 01 Jul 2015 17:13

The Indian School Education

Like most of us here my school education was similar to urban children whose parents could afford to send them to decent Indian schools run by private organisation. My father studied in a Zilla School of his village affiliated to the State Board. I studied in an ICSE school funded and run by Tata Motors, in Jamshedpur. Schools were classrooms full of children, with different teachers for different subjects for different classes. Schools had playgrounds and had lots of classrooms, benches, desks, blackboards, labs (including computer labs), etc. Schools also organised Co Curricular activities. Textbooks and Homework and Tests made up my school life. Of course, the crush on teachers, the first girlfriend, the chuddy buddies and skewed views built about hex though back bench education and finally dad's signatures fudged on those red laced answer sheets completed the School Environment.

This was my this understanding of schooling in India and over time this was further reinforced by the friends and colleagues I met through my academic and work life after school. All from similar backgrounds. We often discussed negative impact of tuition (coaching classes), learning- by- rote and how good the education in the wonderful West was. They produced the best research and it took American Universities to get the best out of our brains.

But in 2010, through the quirk of personal stupidity, recessionary job market and helpful family and friends in the Publishing Industry, I became part of a start up School Text Book publishing house. We made two important decisions - Base ourselves in Bihar, because the Nitish had promised the moon for start ups and next concentrate on the rural market in Bihar and around adjoining states.

To understand publishing better, I went and attended a publishing course run by NBT in Delhi. The course and the way the Left Liberals dominate "A" list publishers is another story - but I learnt this about our schooling in India (RTE had not come then):
- NCERT decides the curriculum for all Indian boards ( Learning knowledge levels for a particular age group). CBSE and ICSE are two central boards. Each State board is different. However, the syllabus set out class wise by each board has to comply with the minimum standards laid out by the NCERT curriculum. The stress is on the word "Minimum".

Boards are free to set the curriculum for regional languages or subjects not covered by NCERT. The National Curriculum Framework 2005 is currently in vogue. Those interested can download the document from here http://www.ncert.nic.in/rightside/links ... nf2005.pdf

ICSE is an Anglo Indian run organisation with around 1800 - 2000 schools affiliated to it (2010 data). CBSE is a GOI run board with roughly 20,000 schools affiliated to it (and growing fast). By contrast just the Bihar Govt runs 72,000 schools affiliated to it for Primary, Secondary and Higher Secondary schools. One of the best run State Education Boards is the Tamil Nadu Govt State Board.

There have been many attempts to amalgamate ICSE in to CBSE but so far this has not succeeded.

NCERT publishes text books which lay out the presentation for the Curriculum. NCERT never says its books are mandatory but respective boards may say so. Private Publishers are free to publish their own titles and it is left to the schools to select their text books. But this only happens in the private run schools. State Government run schools supply books purchased through tendering or those made by SCERTs or State Boards.

Why are Text Books Important - In India, in almost 99% of schools Govt or Private, the education is entirely Text Book based. Which is why most of us who studied in 80's and early 90's will remember the Gulmohur Reader from Orient Longman (Now Orient Blackswan) and the stories in it. The Text Book dictates what the Teacher teaches. Those Teachers who can go beyond the text book even in the best schools are few and far between.

Hence, the quality of text books is an essential component of quality of education. More on the text books some other time.

It should be clear by now that private affiliated schools are a small fraction of Government schools. However, there is a very large segment of private non affiliated schools. At the end of class X or class XII they have a tie up with an affiliated school for their students to take board exams with some additional fee.

On my sales tours to the far and remote (really remote enough to find the back seat of the car as the best motel in town) I visited private schools to promote our books. I saw schools run in cowsheds, in hangar like structure where a black plastic blackboard with few benches in front was one class and a few benches behind was another. One was class 2 learning English and one was class 9 learning Physics and the teacher was the same. Where were the walls? Why just one teacher? What about toilets? So, where were the labs? Where were the fans? How did 40 children fit on those benches? What, no desk?

The answers were not always readily shared, but a few school owners would. Mostly, the owner / school director would himself be the main teacher.

The short answer is - Children go to Govt school for their free Mid Day Meal. Studying is done in the private schools, where available. The paying capacity of parents is severely restricted hence running a school with higher costs is not feasible. The Director employed all the educated youth locally available and that number would rarely be greater than 10. The best teacher is the existing tuition master of the area. For us as School Text Book publishers this is the biggest market – fragmented but very big.

And this is bulk of our School Education in the hindi belt, crammed with people, poverty and potential. Most of our focus shifts to measuring our education by taking cognisance of high achievers - those who crack JEE, Medical etc. But that is not what the Normal Bell curve measures. The average product of this system is where we must concentrate our efforts.

The average student and the ones who fall between one standard deviation of the bell curve, coming out of an education system full of government schools and private schools such as the one above, will do well to read / write a single page in any language. I have personally interviewed Maths (Hons) 73%, pass with distinction, exam cleared under Lalu Raj, a product of such an education system, to come to my conclusion (this interview can be a post on its own). I have met , interviewed others and I am convinced, our present education system is barely able to extend our reach of literacy. Education will come later. Let us first get everyone in to the system. There are still many who do not get to attend even such schools.

The focus must remain on extending reach to get everyone in the Indian School System, however flawed. The improvement in the delivery of education, better teachers will continue and IMO, there will always be islands of excellence surrounded by seas of mediocrity. Coaching Classes are a reflection of Parental aspiration to give their kids a better chance and of course a reflection of what a teacher earns by just teaching at school. Good people get good salaries, throw peanuts and the monkeys surround you. There are just too many students graduating and not enough vacancies in the sought after fields.

Our schools have to be affordable and good - two things only government can do. If all State Boards are like the Tamil Nadu State board and stupidities like Lalu Raj do not happen, surely Govt schools which have the reach and numbers will best address the problem. Now, who will guarantee this? How do we reach a point where demand = supply and we start working from adequate teachers to better teachers, from adequate facilities to better facilities, etc?
Just my two paise worth

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Jul 2015 23:00

First thing is to make the profession of teaching - especially elementary-middle school - a respected profession. Only when teachers with certain amount character (hard work builds character - remember?) enter the field and are ready to literally work in adverse conditions, things will change. We are talking about large scale change here which requires a sort of revolution. I have some personal experiences which I am not going to relate out in the open. FYI, I studied in a different school every year (and in one year three schools one of them a girls high school where I was the only boy in the whole school) till 10th. Except for two years, all schools were municipal schools and most were like what deejay described above though the lab situation was not as dire as described above.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Jul 2015 23:10

deejay: What I remember from a short visit many decades ago, there are two Jamshedpurs - one inside Tata compound and another outside. I was in a hotel outside a few KMs from the compound and as I soon as I got up would make a beeline to get back into the compound to eat breakfast at the cafeteria. Facilities outside were dismal to say the least. Most PSU campuses are also like that - employees would come home and spend time with their children with the syllabus being uniform across all CBSE schools. From what I gather from newphews and nieces the quality of teachers is far better than the new fangled elite public ... err private ... schools (with some exceptions of course). Also, campus kids have ready-made examples in all the scientists/engineers working at these facilities.

Change (for the better) requiresa massive bhagiratha yatna - years of tapasya and money - to get the waters of elite DPS alaknanda to flow into life giving ganga for earthlings.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 01 Jul 2015 23:17

gakakkad wrote:even in my school , these dins booze , sleaze and pot has become a problem...

my nephew in NJ goes to a public school..says it is good...but is in a Indic dominated area ...Usually indics steer clear of these things...but yes you can't find a good public school everywhere in unkil and private schools can certainly get you nanga...beepuls tell me that AP/IB schools have college level fees...i am already dhoti shivering at the prospects of having kids by the end of the decade....because these issues so far were onlee for debating here and elsewhere...

Simply not true. Almost all IB schools are free. AP classes are offered at almost every public school.