Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

adityadange · Post by **adityadange** » 30 Jun 2015 17:36

Pinaka II has been tested for ranges beyond 60 kilometres as well, the DRDO is just claiming ’60-kilometre-range’ both for consistency and ‘playing it safe’ reasons.

so pinaka 2 can neutralize nasr battery?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Jun 2015 20:38

aditya, To me the above report tells me:
Army tested random Pinaka MkI for performance testing.
DRDO added the thermo-baric submunition to take advantage of the test.
And its now qualified by being field tested.

All these will be rolled/incorporated into the Pinaka Mark II which has 60km range requirement but can achieve more than that.

Yes it will nasl the nasr batteries.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 30 Jun 2015 22:11

ranjan.rao wrote:Submunition warheads successfully tested for Pinaka I
The advanced trials of Pinaka I, a complete multi-barrel rocket launcher (MBRL) system, were successfully carried out for the ‘submunition warheads’ here at Pokhran field firing range in Rajasthan on Monday. Pinaka has been indigenously developed by the Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE), Pune, a laboratory of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

Dr KM Rajan, director, ARDE, told TOI that the success of the latest trials has paved the way for these submunition warheads to be used in mark-II version of Pinaka as well which is going to have a 20-km longer range.

Claiming that the development trials for a 60-km range for Pinaka II have been termed successful by the users (Indian Army), Dr Rajan said that the current trials are a part of the ‘proof trials’ for the ‘production lot of Pinaka I’ wherein random Pinakas are picked up to test the performance standards of a specific lot at regular periods. “Complete systems, subsystems and efficiency for these submunition warheads have been tested today,” said he.

Senior DRDO officials said on the condition of anonymity that while Pinaka II has been tested for ranges beyond 60 kilometres as well, the DRDO is just claiming ’60-kilometre-range’ both for consistency and ‘playing it safe’ reasons.

The DRDO officials disclosed that not only the volume of Pinaka rockets is being increased in the production lines to cater to the army’s needs, even their strike capability in terms of a longer range is being increased.

The indigenous Pinaka MBRL can act as a force-multiplier. It is known as an area weapon system which can fire a salvo of 12 high explosive (HE) rockets in 44 seconds while neutralising a marked area of 3.9 square kilometres.

“We have seen Pinaka’s performance during the Kargil episode. And now this thermo-baric ammunition is able to operate from a mobile launcher at extreme temperature ranges of -10 degrees Celsius to 55 degrees Celsius with a quicker reaction time. It also has the capability to carry various kinds of warheads. It has now become more lethal,” said the official, adding that its thermal and blast effects have been developed for MBT Arjun to further boost its firepower. The ARDE and DRDO officials were also present with the Indian Army officials during these trials at Pokhran.

MBRL system can fire in different directions in one go

Jodhpur: The state-of-the-art Pinaka MBRL system is endowed with a capacity to fire in different directions and can work in various modes including autonomous mode while being controlled by a fire control computer, standalone mode, manual mode or remote mode etc. Taking pride in the low-cost factor of Pinaka vis-a-vis other such rocket systems in the world bestowed with shoot and scoot capabilities, DRDO officials disclosed that a Pinaka battery consists of six launchers and each is equipped with 12 rockets. It can carry more than 100 kg of payload for a 40 km range as in case of Pinaka I. The Pinaka went into development in 1986 and production in 1998. The system mounted on a Tatra truck works in a way that all the 72 rockets in a single battery can be fired in just 44 seconds while each of the six launchers can fire in different directions too.

A kind of warhead for Pinaka

Jodhpur: The submunition warheads tested on Monday are among the eight kinds of warheads for Pinaka. The submunition incendiary warheads are valuable for inflammable targets while there are cluster warheads armed with anti-personnel and anti-tank submunitions. Runway denial penetrating submunition warheads are aimed at neutralising targets like runways and other complexes.

And now the Rodina comes up with a new rocket launcher. It has double the range of Pinaka. It has three times the explosive power of the Pinaka rocket. And do you know, shhhss secret, IT IS STEALTHY.

It is so stealthy that nobody, even in Rodina, has seen it.

But its development is "almost" over and it is "almost" ready for for deployment. (Rodina just needs a few billion US dollars to complete its development and set up an assembly line.)

And Rodina is ready to offer it to India fro license manufacture. Rodina even agrees to give a few screwdrivers, "free of cost" (like Gorshkov).

Achtung ! Achtung !! Achtung !!!

And here comes the Rodina-lovers creeping our of all sorts of crevices.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 30 Jun 2015 22:22

^^^ you did not mention new model of Natasha will also be on offer to tall Army/Defence ministry fellows who write the GSQR in such a way that only Rodina maal will qualify.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 30 Jun 2015 23:09

Vipul wrote:^^^ you did not mention new model of Natasha will also be on offer to tall Army/Defence ministry fellows who write the GSQR in such a way that only Rodina maal will qualify.

prashantsharma · Post by **prashantsharma** » 03 Jul 2015 13:15

Does anyone have information about the delivery schedule / status of the Spyder SAM system?

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 03 Jul 2015 13:22

Delivered.

I recently went to Bangalore & next to Manekshaw parade ground, saw an Army billboard showing Spyder fired from Tata truck.

With Igla, Spyder & Akash, no SRSAM/QRSAM is required. Just an MRSAM & maybe AAD and the ADA has the aerospace covered.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jul 2015 13:33

the barak-8 is reported to be under fitment for kolkata and kochi (she will have barak8 day of joining IN). so the Barak version for IAF should not be too far off...probably just a bigger 1st stage booster and a different radar that rotates 360'.

John · Post by **John** » 03 Jul 2015 16:28

Singha it is same missile for IAF and i believe it uses exsisting domestically devoloped radar systems 3D Car etc. Barak 8 ER is under devolopment and from what i can gather only IN is procuring that. As i mentioned it is similar to SM 2 MR blk 3 in terms of performance and will fit existing platforms.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jul 2015 17:46

but isnt the IN version 70km and IAF 120km? that would mean not same missile

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Jul 2015 19:37

At 1:07 of the video shows the Top/Dive attack capability of Brahmos/Onyx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clWZCNaZpeE

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jul 2015 19:51

sweet. the submerged launches is a yasen class unleashing a few of its ample vls inventory.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 03 Jul 2015 20:52

LR-SAM = Naval version, no booster, range 70 km guided by Elta 2248

MR-SAM = IAF version to replace Pechora, range 120 km, with booster, guided by Elta 2084 that has already entered service as MPR

http://i55.tinypic.com/xfavyf.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wwNcrM17T5k/T ... 774716.JPG

Recently signed up for a IA version with a range of 50 km.

prashantsharma · Post by **prashantsharma** » 03 Jul 2015 21:38

tsarkar wrote:Delivered.

I recently went to Bangalore & next to Manekshaw parade ground, saw an Army billboard showing Spyder fired from Tata truck.

while there may be a poster of the Spyder (photoshop?), there isnt a single photograph of it in service at any location... no announcements of its induction... no showoff at Vayushakti or any other parade .... no nothing.... makes me wonder whether any have been delivered

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 04 Jul 2015 07:07

tsarkar wrote:to replace Pechora

Isn't the Pechora ranged around 30 to 35 km? I thought Akash missile is its replacement.

koti · Post by **koti** » 04 Jul 2015 07:39

Akash is more mobile. It is more on the lines of kvadrat.
Is it not?

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 04 Jul 2015 22:38

If memory serves me right, IAF had 30 squadrons of Pechora & 8 squadrons of Osa.

The Osa replacement is Spyder while Pechora replacement will be a mix of Akash & MRSAM. The replacement is not 1 to 1, and based on current threat perceptions & force dispositions. The number of units is being increased.

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 05 Jul 2015 08:50

prashantsharma wrote:
tsarkar wrote:Delivered.

I recently went to Bangalore & next to Manekshaw parade ground, saw an Army billboard showing Spyder fired from Tata truck.
while there may be a poster of the Spyder (photoshop?), there isnt a single photograph of it in service at any location... no announcements of its induction... no showoff at Vayushakti or any other parade .... no nothing.... makes me wonder whether any have been delivered

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... M.jpg.html

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... 2.jpg.html

nevin · Post by **nevin** » 05 Jul 2015 10:43

Austin wrote:At 1:07 of the video shows the Top/Dive attack capability of Brahmos/Onyx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clWZCNaZpeE

Austin, that is Klub Land attack version, if you watch that video again in stop motion -just before impact you can see the wings, brahmos/onix doesn't have any.

prashantsharma · Post by **prashantsharma** » 05 Jul 2015 20:36

Mihir wrote: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... M.jpg.html

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... 2.jpg.html

i might sound like a sceptic but to me the pictures seem like they were taken in israel....

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 05 Jul 2015 20:48

prashantsharma wrote:
Mihir wrote: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... M.jpg.html

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... 2.jpg.html
i might sound like a sceptic but to me the pictures seem like they were taken in israel....

May be, but you can see the IAF Roundel.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 05 Jul 2015 21:11

nevin wrote:
Austin wrote:At 1:07 of the video shows the Top/Dive attack capability of Brahmos/Onyx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clWZCNaZpeE
Austin, that is Klub Land attack version, if you watch that video again in stop motion -just before impact you can see the wings, brahmos/onix doesn't have any.

Yes i looked at the video carefully and it is the Supersonic Klub ( 2nd stage ) variant the pointed nose is a give away

prashantsharma · Post by **prashantsharma** » 05 Jul 2015 21:23

Karthik S wrote: May be, but you can see the IAF Roundel.

roundel was noticed... as were other clues in the background...

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 05 Jul 2015 21:41

As per wiki India operates the spyder-mr, medium range variant of the system (35 km range). Is this also reported in some other media outlets?

John · Post by **John** » 05 Jul 2015 23:47

tsarkar wrote:LR-SAM = Naval version, no booster, range 70 km guided by Elta 2248

MR-SAM = IAF version to replace Pechora, range 120 km, with booster, guided by Elta 2084 that has already entered service as MPR

http://i55.tinypic.com/xfavyf.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wwNcrM17T5k/T ... 774716.JPG

Recently signed up for a IA version with a range of 50 km.

tsarker source? The article posted by austin from couple weeks indicates Barak 8 ER range is 93 nm and both missiles use the same launchers and sub systems. Can't speak for IAFs plan since it is still unclear but as for IN IMO it is likely a mix of Barak-8 and Barak-8 ER will be carried by P-15A/B similar to mix of Aster 15/30 deployed by T-45 DDG.

srai · Post by **srai** » 08 Jul 2015 10:40

tsarkar wrote:If memory serves me right, IAF had 30 squadrons of Pechora & 8 squadrons of Osa.

The Osa replacement is Spyder while Pechora replacement will be a mix of Akash & MRSAM. The replacement is not 1 to 1, and based on current threat perceptions & force dispositions. The number of units is being increased.

More than 150 VA/VPs have been identified over the recent years. Lots more SAM systems are going to be needed than what is on order.

First Akash missile system to fill gap in air defence

...
The dangerous shortage of India’s air defence resources has been known to Business Standard for some time, but can only now be publicly revealed, with the induction of the Akash remedying the situation. The number of installations that need protection – each is termed a Vulnerable Area (VA) or a Vulnerable Point (VP), depending upon how large it is – has steadily increased. In a letter written on December 4, 2002, to the MoD, the IAF’s Air Marshal Raghu Rajan pointed out that a study by the military’s apex Chiefs of Staff Committee, ordered by the Cabinet Secretariat, had identified 101 Indian VAs/VPs in 1983. That went up to 122 in 1992; to 133 in 1997; and is now understood to be well above 150.

Without the anti-aircraft resources needed to protect these VAs/VPs, the outdated Pechora missiles, which began service in 1974 with a designated life of nine years, have been granted repeated extensions. The Russian manufacturers extended the life to 15 years; when they refused any further extensions, the DRDO extended it unilaterally to 21 years. By 2004, only 30 Pechora units of the 60 originally imported were still in service.

On January 15, 2003, the IAF boss, Air Chief Marshal S Krishnaswamy, wrote to the MoD saying that 60 per cent of India’s VAs/VPs could no longer be provided anti-aircraft protection. The IAF’s top officer wrote: “By 2004… terminal defence of VA/VPs would be only notional… We need to import minimal number of systems to meet our national defence needs.”
...

Vulnerable Point (VP)

9 squadrons of Spyder LLQRM
1,100 Igla MANPAD

Vulnerable Area (VA)

8 squadrons of Akash SAM will most likely be used for BADZ protection in the Western sector and possibly be given an ADGES role in the North-East (6 squadrons out of 8 ).
9 squadrons of MRSAM will most likely be deployed as ADGES "picket-lines" along the Western border in the lines of S-125M deployments as shown below:

Good news is more Akash SAM squadrons are planned.

...
The IAF has placed orders for eight Akash squadrons - with plans for more than double this number - while the Indian Army plans on initially inducting four regiments.
...

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 08 Jul 2015 22:02

Akash Air Defence System to be Formally Inducted Into IAF

Posting in full.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar will this week formally induct the Akash Air Defence System into the Indian Air Force.

Parrikar is set to travel to Gwalior on Friday for the formal handing over of the system. The system was indigenously developed by the DRDO and BEL is the production agency. Indian Air Force has given an initial contract for eight squadrons of Akash defence system. Each squadron has two firing units each with four launcher. Each launcher has a capacity to fire three missiles in quick succession.

The IAF has already deployed Akash at its bases in Gwalior, Hashimara, Tejpur, Jorhat and Pune. The missile system can target aircraft upto 30 km away, at altitudes upto 18,000 metres. It has the capability to neutralise aerial targets like fighter jets, cruise missiles and air-to-surface missiles.

It is in operational service with the Indian Army and the Indian Air Force.

-Ankit

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 08 Jul 2015 22:09

I don't get what the media gets by posting operational details and why its not stopped. Akash has been deployed in AFB is more than enough as versus detailing which ones.

Yes yes, people can look it up on mapping software etc etc but why make it easy.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jul 2015 22:16

jorhat has no fighters just transport sqdns so nice to see a logistic hub being covered. I dont know why the DM has to waste his time on this with so many sqdns already in service.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 09 Jul 2015 03:42

Akash Air Defence system to be formally inducted into IAF

srai · Post by **srai** » 09 Jul 2015 10:43

Ankit Desai wrote:Akash Air Defence System to be Formally Inducted Into IAF

Posting in full.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar will this week formally induct the Akash Air Defence System into the Indian Air Force.

Parrikar is set to travel to Gwalior on Friday for the formal handing over of the system. The system was indigenously developed by the DRDO and BEL is the production agency. Indian Air Force has given an initial contract for eight squadrons of Akash defence system. Each squadron has two firing units each with four launcher. Each launcher has a capacity to fire three missiles in quick succession.

The IAF has already deployed Akash at its bases in Gwalior, Hashimara, Tejpur, Jorhat and Pune. The missile system can target aircraft upto 30 km away, at altitudes upto 18,000 metres. It has the capability to neutralise aerial targets like fighter jets, cruise missiles and air-to-surface missiles.

It is in operational service with the Indian Army and the Indian Air Force.
-Ankit

Other likely bases in NE would be Bagdogra and Chabua. Another could be Kalaikunda.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Jul 2015 13:21

Barak 8: Facts about the Indo-Israeli Missile - Economic Times

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 09 Jul 2015 18:34

N-sub INS Arihant to test-fire missile

Ajay Banerjee

Tribune News Service

New Delhi, July 9
Altering India’s strategic offensive, nuclear-powered submarine INS Arihant will undergo its first-ever missile firing test this year, while separately a 10,000-km range nuclear missile is planned to match neighbour China’s growing arsenal.

The Defence Research Development and Organisation (DRDO) has proposed the new missile AGNI-VI that comes after the success of AGNI-V which is slated for a possible final test in December this year.

Dr S. Chirstopher, Director General of DRDO and Secretary Research and Development, told The Tribune on Thursday that India can have a missile that can travel a distance of 10,000 km, albeit with a smaller warhead than the AGNI-V.

“We have to now present our case to the government for explaining the need for such a missile”, Dr Chirstopher said while accepting that AGNI-VI is on the drawing board. This will be an Inter-Continental Ballatic Missile (ICBM) like AGNI-V.

Speaking about the Arihant, the indigenous nuclear-powered Submarine, Dr Chirstopher said “the vessel is slated for deep diving tests and the missile named ‘B-05’ is to be test-fired from the vessel. These tests will be done within this year”.

The B-05 missile is capable of carrying a nuclear-tipped warhead and is a medium-range missile, he said.

The DRDO chief said the long-range submarine-fired K-4 missile is not slated for testing now.

The AGNI-V possible last test slated in December could be its last before it’s inducted. “To declare a missile proven, we need three consecutive successful tests. In case the next test is okay, we can taper off the testing”. The missile can fire at targets 5,500 km away.

AGNI-V has undergone its last flight test in February this year. The first test was conducted on April 19, 2012, and the second test on September 15, 2013.

India has at present in its armoury of Agni series, Agni-1 with 700 km range, Agni-2 with 2,000 km range, Agni-3 and Agni-4 with 2,500 km to more than 3,500 km range

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jul 2015 18:59

Austin, Great news. Mithai is in order.
AVI development Authority to Proceed in work.
AV last test for deployment. Rationale for DRDO missiles is given: three consecutive successful tests prior to deployment. Suggest folks plot that on probability paper to understand the rationale! This means production version. wish he said development testing tapers off. SFC will do its own operational testing for reliability, operational readiness etc. etc.
B05 underwater launch from Arihant this year. i.e. next 5 months!!!!

So 2 tests and one ATP are the milestones for DRDO strategic programs.

BTW a hidden nugget is the A-VI will have lighter warhead than the A-V!!!!

They will soon have to rationalize all those payloads for security.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 09 Jul 2015 19:50

With a 10000 km Range ICBM this will have Global Capability along the line of P-5 , The range also signifies the need to reach far north , east and southern corners

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 09 Jul 2015 20:00

Thank goodness they are not planning A-7, then A-8, then A-9, and then A-10. With the previous GOI, looks like this incrementalism was the only way forward.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jul 2015 20:08

A-VI is A-X!!!

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 10 Jul 2015 04:05

The Arihant test is supposed to be of the "B-05" missile. Which missile is this exactly? Is B-05 == K-15?

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 10 Jul 2015 04:49

^^ yes.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 10 Jul 2015 06:44

ramana wrote:Austin, Great news. Mithai is in order.
AVI development Authority to Proceed in work.
AV last test for deployment. Rationale for DRDO missiles is given: three consecutive successful tests prior to deployment. Suggest folks plot that on probability paper to understand the rationale! This means production version. wish he said development testing tapers off. SFC will do its own operational testing for reliability, operational readiness etc. etc.
B05 underwater launch from Arihant this year. i.e. next 5 months!!!!

So 2 tests and one ATP are the milestones for DRDO strategic programs.

BTW a hidden nugget is the A-VI will have lighter warhead than the A-V!!!!

They will soon have to rationalize all those payloads for security.

Validation may come in the second term. This a yankee specific weapon. We'll need to use hypersonic boost glide vehicles which can pull porpoise like maneuvers to get through their ABM net. With a 200-350kt yield, it'll pack a punch.