India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

[Sagar G]

A tweet nonetheless. It does get any more devoid of detail and context than that.

Especially when it goes against your hokum

That's nonsense. How about the Damocles pod and Catherine imagers for a start. And cockpit glassware from Thales. Engines from France and Ukraine. Mission computers for the Su-30 from India. Two 20,000 ton Mistral class helicopter carriers from DCNS! All illegal under Russian law?

BrahMos missiles substantially increase strike capacity of India’s armed forces

In an exclusive interview Praveen Pathak, General Manager (Market Promotion & Export) at BrahMos Aerospace talks about the capabilities of the missiles and the future of joint production in the defence sector between Russia and India.
.................

Although the BrahMos missiles are being manufactured using the latest Russian technology, so far the Russian armed forces haven’t committed to buying any of the missiles. Can you explain why and if there are any prospects for Russia buying them?

We have a strong interest in BrahMos purchases by Russia’s Armed Forces. We know they are legally prohibited from buying foreign-made arms and must only use domestically made ones. This approach has been changing lately, particularly as far as joint products are concerned. Our representatives raised this issue today during PM Medvedev’s visit (to MAKS on August 27- editor). They told us that the issue would be considered in due course. For instance, we are hoping that project 11356 frigates will get the BrahMos missiles soon. Six warships have been built for the Indian Navy and there is an outstanding order for six more for Russia’s Navy.

The matter of adoption of the BrahMos by the Russian Armed Forces is a matter of cooperation. Both partners should have this product. That is what a joint venture is all about. The Russian-Indian agreement dating back to 1998 required Russia to purchase and use BrahMos missiles. We hope this will be the case before long.

Mistral class we all know what a disastrous decision that was by Russia. I guess they were experiencing a blank moment like you are when they made that decision.

Don't try to obfuscate the issue. You were confident that a HALE UAV could never use a 'commercial engine'. Having being corrected on the matter, don't pretend you were talking about the CFM56 all along.

Wallah !!! I ask a single question and you have already arrived at my confidence level. Seeing your love for China and different class of engine I put forward that question to bring you down to the level required. You can deduce any fancy theory you want to just like you have been doing till now.

Importing is a 'long term solution' for the Tejas program (F404/F414). But point was even as a short term solution an import has valuable utility if pushes a domestic program along. Which is where access to global suppliers will welcomed by our UAV developers as well as the armed forces.

And such "long tern solutions" will come to bite our ass once the restrictions strike. Such genius level of thinking has already shown it's results w.r.t. Tejas and keeping with such genius level of thinking will show more "results" in the future as well. Our UAV developers will rather welcome more participation and funding and armed forces (minus IN) never cared about indigenization in the first place.

Membership in the MTCR will provide us access to dual use equipment and therefore reduce development cycles. How hard is that for you to fathom? Eventually the degree of indigenous content can be increased, as associated efforts bear fruit.

Development cycle will reduce only on paper but practically you are still hostage to the whims and fancies of the country from which you took that dual use technology till you don't replace it with indigenous one. So your "eventuality" is actually a part of the development cycle while providing merely an illusion of reduced development time when in reality you are still hostage tech wise. Since you have already brought this illusion of "tech freedom" hence now I don't expect you to fathom this reality.

What are you talking about? Seriously? All the quoted text said that members will not modify imported equipment, re-export it, or use it for an unagreed purpose without approval (most standard EULAs specify the same conditions).

Where pray sir, is the 'subservience'? And by extension why won't the other members of the regime be equally 'subservient' to India?

The illusions are of biblical proportions !!!

We cannot use the technology as we want it to unless and until the mother country allows us to do the same (depending upon the outcome of GUBO sessions) and yet these restrictions don't make India anyway subservient to that country !!! Also BREAKING NEWS, EULA isn't intrusive and we will make other countries subservient to us by importing defence equipments instead of actually developing them !!!

You win boss, I cannot compete with Alia Bhatt level of geniusness.

They're not 'looking' at anything. They're pretty much doing it. Maybe they haven't understood the insidious MTCR text as well as you have.

The application may happen at MTCR's plenary due in September-October.

Atleast wait for it to happen and in what form before you start jumping and shouting "Amelica Baba Zindabaad".

Cute. Keep repeating that while the PM pursues India's membership in the regime.

Oh god you are so fhanny !!!

[Viv S]

Mistral class we all know what a disastrous decision that was by Russia. I guess they were experiencing a blank moment like you are when they made that decision.

Engaging in obfuscation doesn't change the fact that you were wrong when you claimed that imports are illegal under Russian law. Their history with imports is well recorded.

Wallah !!! I ask a single question and you have already arrived at my confidence level. Seeing your love for China and different class of engine I put forward that question to bring you down to the level required. You can deduce any fancy theory you want to just like you have been doing till now.

You mean when you said - Which HALE UAV uses engines meant for commercial passenger aircraft ???, you actually had no idea what kind of engines existing UAVs employ? And you couldn't simply use google to find out?

The honest thing thing would be to accept that you implied something which you were wrong about. The ego issue is a drag on the forum.

And such "long tern solutions" will come to bite our ass once the restrictions strike. Such genius level of thinking has already shown it's results w.r.t. Tejas and keeping with such genius level of thinking will show more "results" in the future as well. Our UAV developers will rather welcome more participation and funding and armed forces (minus IN) never cared about indigenization in the first place.

And you would have killed of the Tejas program rather than run the risk of restrictions by employing a foreign engine?

Development cycle will reduce only on paper but practically you are still hostage to the whims and fancies of the country from which you took that dual use technology till you don't replace it with indigenous one. So your "eventuality" is actually a part of the development cycle while providing merely an illusion of reduced development time when in reality you are still hostage tech wise. Since you have already brought this illusion of "tech freedom" hence now I don't expect you to fathom this reality.

Tell that to the DRDO that foolishly imported radars, radomes & missiles for Tejas Mk1, or the HAL vis a vis ALH Dhruv, that we could have waited on domestic equipment without time-lines being affected.

The illusions are of biblical proportions !!!

We cannot use the technology as we want it to unless and until the mother country allows us to do the same (depending upon the outcome of GUBO sessions) and yet these restrictions don't make India anyway subservient to that country !!! Also BREAKING NEWS, EULA isn't intrusive and we will make other countries subservient to us by importing defence equipments instead of actually developing them !!!

This has nothing to do with the MTCR. The conditions listed in the text are all standard EULA. Joining the MTCR regime or refraining from doing so will not make a lick of difference to what we are able to do with imported gear.

You win boss, I cannot compete with Alia Bhatt level of geniusness.

Atleast wait for it to happen and in what form before you start jumping and shouting "Amelica Baba Zindabaad".

Oh god you are so fhanny !!!

This isn't the first time that you've compensating for lack of an argument by engaging in wholesale trolling. Most of the forum including the Mods are familiar with it.

[Sagar G]

Engaging in obfuscation doesn't change the fact that you were wrong when you claimed that imports are illegal under Russian law. Their history with imports is well recorded.

Chit bhi meri, pat bhi meri !!! When I put facts supporting what I said that immediately becomes "obfuscation" since Herr Fuhrer doesn't like waking up and smelling the coffee and as seen previously neither do you read properly what has been posted nor make the effort to read properly what you have posted yourself and I was sure that you will miss what I posted hence making another attempt to cross your density.

We know they are legally prohibited from buying foreign-made arms and must only use domestically made ones. This approach has been changing lately, particularly as far as joint products are concerned.

You mean when you said - Which HALE UAV uses engines meant for commercial passenger aircraft ???, you actually had no idea what kind of engines existing UAVs employ? And you couldn't simply use google to find out?

As said before I have absolutely no issue with what you deduce of me, you can keep on chasing shadows for all I care.

And you would have killed of the Tejas program rather than run the risk of restrictions by employing a foreign engine?

I would have better managed it and ensured the engine delivery.

Tell that to the DRDO that foolishly imported radars, radomes & missiles for Tejas Mk1, or the HAL vis a vis ALH Dhruv, that we could have waited on domestic equipment without time-lines being affected.

Again no doubt management/technical problems all the examples that you give are temporary patch work only till our systems replace them so as I said before practically we are hostage to whims and fancies of the foreign nation till we develop our systems.

This has nothing to do with the MTCR. The conditions listed in the text are all standard EULA. Joining the MTCR regime or refraining from doing so will not make a lick of difference to what we are able to do with imported gear.

Yeah keep ignoring the facts that have been posted, keep claiming obfuscation when the facts go against your pet beliefs, keep lying to yourself and everybody else but none of this is going to change what is clearly written in MTCR guidelines and anyone with basic comprehension skill can understand what's written in it.

This isn't the first time that you've compensating for lack of an argument by engaging in wholesale trolling. Most of the forum including the Mods are familiar with it.

Obviously this had to come from you since you don't have anything legitimate to add to make MTCR sale-able and what a nice example that you have given. I would urge forum members to go and take a look through that discussion where Viv S was busy selling Jap ware instead of looking into the practical issues associated with the deal which were pretty one sided at that time.

Now what are the Japs doing since Modi is playing hardball ??? Surprise surprise not only they have eased restrictions on defence exports but also Abe is pushing for changes in article 9 of their constitution as has been the long standing demand of his party. Also the US 2 deal is stuck, why ??? Because of tech transfer issues, at that time what Japs had in mind is what we know as screw driver tech and since the same isn't acceptable to Modi as it doesn't bond well with "Make In India" campaign hence the delay in negotiations till the deal is more favourable.

Now accepting that maybe I had a point back then will have disastrous effects on boisterous Mr. Viv S but still ironically doesn't back down from preaching

The honest thing thing would be to accept that you implied something which you were wrong about. The ego issue is a drag on the forum.

[ramana]

Knock it off.

SagarG, how many bans you want?

[UlanBatori]

Calling all Positive Brfess: Need help!!!!

http://www.thefrisky.com/2015-06-22/let ... /#comments

[A_Gupta]

US Dept of State press release:
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2015/06/244441.htm

7th U.S.-India-Japan Trilateral Dialogue

Media Note
Office of the Spokesperson
Washington, DC
June 27, 2015

On June 26, the United States hosted the seventh trilateral dialogue with India and Japan in Honolulu to exchange views on a broad range of regional and global issues of mutual interest. The discussion was co-chaired by Assistant Secretary of State for South and Central Asian Affairs Nisha Biswal, and Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs Daniel Russel. The Indian delegation was led by Ministry of External Affairs Joint Secretaries Vinay Kwatra, Pradeep Rawat, and Amandeep Gill. Ministry of Foreign Affairs Director-General of Southeast and Southwest Asian Affairs Takio Yamada headed the delegation from the Government of Japan. The dialogue addressed a variety of issues, including multilateral institutions in the Asia-Pacific, maritime security, and humanitarian assistance and disaster relief. The deepening of this regular dialogue since 2011 reflects a growing convergence of the regional and global interests as the three countries broaden cooperation to span the region from the Indian Ocean to the Pacific.

[A_Gupta]

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri ... 850333.cms

Despite bonhomie and garden side 'chai-pe-charcha' between President Barack Obama and Prime Minister Narendra Modi that formed part of the 'new journey' the two countries embarked upon earlier this year, instances of visa snafus remain a stumbling block. Visa rules remain a bottleneck that impedes free scientific exchange between the world's largest and world's oldest democracies.

[TSJones]

^^^^^^

Hmmm, it seems the moats have been dug greater and deeper since the "Paco" incident. Who woulda thunk it?

[chaanakya]

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri ... 850333.cms

Despite bonhomie and garden side 'chai-pe-charcha' between President Barack Obama and Prime Minister Narendra Modi that formed part of the 'new journey' the two countries embarked upon earlier this year, instances of visa snafus remain a stumbling block. Visa rules remain a bottleneck that impedes free scientific exchange between the world's largest and world's oldest democracies.

Why do they so dearly want to go to US. If their visits are indispensable for organisers they should be asked to host it outside of USA.
If there is some specific need ofr India US scientific collaboration then some sort of mutual travel arrangements should be worked out by way of treaty or MOU and respective Visa rules amended accordingly. Such provisions exists in US Visa rules .

[krithivas]

^^^^^^^
This is where Indians must find the bit of Pakistani within. It is our damned right to expect hassle free travel anywhere anytime on this planet. If WTO obligates us to reduce barriers to trade goods, then it is our solemn right to require other countries to let us pass freely. If any country poses challenges to our right to travel, then start harassing the goods they export to India on some convoluted pretext, E.g., mandate non GMO certification etc. This street porkiness is what we need to acquire, and jettison the despair. I think Indians limit ourselves.

[member_22733]

^^^^^^

Hmmm, it seems the moats have been dug greater and deeper since the "Paco" incident. Who woulda thunk it?

Ohh yes, em diaper headed sand n***ers with their traffiked slaves are charging into Murica like the huns.

[TSJones]

^^^^^^

Hmmm, it seems the moats have been dug greater and deeper since the "Paco" incident. Who woulda thunk it?

Ohh yes, em diaper headed sand n***ers with their traffiked slaves are charging into Murica like the huns.

better yet take away more of the Delhi US embassy security and creature comforts until they start processing visas faster. that ought to motivate them. they may change their views of India and love you for it.

[member_22733]

Boohoo. And you can return the favor by Raping Indian diplomats as per your "SOP". Over and out.

[chetak]

Why the eff do our guys want to go there when clearly they are unwanted or the amrekis want to exact retribution for something that we did but don't know what exactly set the amrekis off??

Block all the religious visas, block all amreki trade and diplomatic staff, block big shot businessmen, all NGO folks and then we will have a dialogue about what exactly is pissing the white masters off.

[Shreeman]

The American approach is all about having the last word. Doesnt matter what it is, who started it, or right/wrong. A bully wins by throwing the last punch and still be standing. And when the "the argument" stops, routine bullying gets a boost.

Now the visa issue reported is practically a demand for two class, treat us like them arab sheikhs approach. I dont think that was wise. CNRR or anyone else, believe me there are dime a dozen with such accomplishments on this shore. It doesnt help to demand special treatment or whine about your professional record being questioned. These "eminent" scientists do not get any sympathy as they want cake when bread is scarce.

The average citizen treatment needs to improve, for both sides. The TFTA want to streamline their processes if they want services. And the SDRE must do better than just being sycophant in person in hope of chasing dollars from visiting tourists, and sending lower paid workers to US ghettos. As long as India hopes to "service" US by undercutting labor costs without protections for workers, the broader issue has no hope.

A simple solution would be to reciprocate on visa and funding classes. If X religious visas are granted by the US, X are grante by India. If $$Y is sent by India to US NGOs, then $$Y can be received. That will solve the problem overnight. In fact do the same with everybody, Saudis included.

[svinayak]

The American approach is all about having the last word. Doesnt matter what it is, who started it, or right/wrong. A bully wins by throwing the last punch and still be standing. And when the "the argument" stops, routine bullying gets a boost.

That is known as image management, perception management and social engineering.

[A_Gupta]

"Exercise Malabar: Japan Navy to join India, US in Bay of Bengal
The 2015 exercise will see Japan’s participation in a naval manouevre in the Bay of Bengal after eight years, but Australia will not be participating."
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... of-bengal/

Despite the India-US joint statement issued during US President Barack Obama’s Delhi visit, which stated that “they will upgrade” Exercise Malabar, the maritime exercise will remain restricted to India, US and Japan this year, sources said.

The 2015 exercise will see Japan’s participation in a naval manouevre in the Bay of Bengal after eight years, but Australia will not be participating. This was confirmed at the seventh US-India-Japan trilateral dialogue held at Honolulu last Friday, sources said.

[Tuvaluan]

China has Australia by the scruff of its neck, or so it seems, if we go by the recent reports of Austrialia getting into some serious economic engagement with China. Australia is not a dependable ally as far as China is concerned. I wonder if this is a permanent change in Australia's attitude or not...on the one hand some of the leaders claim to be wary of China, but at the same time, they are getting deeper and deeper into an economic relationship with china that makes them more vulnerable to chinese actions that will have economic consequences for australia.

[Amber G.]

^^^^^^

Hmmm, it seems the moats have been dug greater and deeper since the "Paco" incident. Who woulda thunk it?

OTOH, there are indications which see the situation slightly differently .. just some random examples..

1- From recent WSJ article, about NaMo's initiative ..
(xpost from mann ki baat thread)

From: WSJ:

Narendra Modi ✔@narendramodi
Amazed by the fantastic response to #SelfieWithDaughter. Its remarkable how people across the world have chipped in. http://nm4.in/1KixqRS
10:56 AM - 29 Jun 2015

A tweet from the verified account of India-born Nisha Biswal, assistant secretary for state for South and Central Asia at the U.S. State Department, included two photos in support of Mr. Modi’s campaign. The first with her daughters, and another with her father, whom she said, “believed” and “invested” in her.

‏@NishaBiswal
Love the #SelfieWithDaughter idea @narendramodi. Here is mine w my girls.

https://twitter.com/NishaBiswal/status/ ... 49/photo/1

Narendra Modi ‏@narendramodi Jun 28
@NishaBiswal Lovely photos. Thanks for sharing, both as a mother and a daughter.

2. Just another random news item from :this source..

A total of 15,659 tourists arrived in May [in India many from US] availing e-Tourist visa facility this year as compared to 1,833 during the same month last year

3. On personal level I have seen many (much more than I have seen in the past) people from India, visiting US in last few months.. these include, even in my small sample, academicians, judges, Indian Navy professionals (on training in US), tourists and people who just wanted to see family. All had very positive experience (totally unlike the narrative here in brf).

4. Visa for Americans (and Indian Americans - Modi has reportedly said - " we (he is PM of India) do not care about the color of these people's passports) HAS become quite hassle free. No need for that nonsense - "check with the nearest police station every.. so many weeks..".. or different rules for "PIO/ OCI" etc.. when all is said and done, this part is pretty important to people like me.

Yeah.. yeah I know, no one will convince them who write endlessly about evil America or evil India but let me end this with another routine head line today from one News paper:

WASHINGTON: Top officials from India and the US have reviewed the implementation of initiatives taken during the two summits between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and President Barack Obama in the past one year.

Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar had a series of meetings with the US officials here yesterday during which he discussed issues ranging from ease of doing business to cooperation on terrorism and climate change.
...

"They reviewed the implementation of initiatives taken during the two summits between leaders Prime Minister Modi and President Obama in the past one year," the statement added.

Prime Minister Modi and President Obama held their first bilateral summit in the White House last September. In January this year, Obama travelled to New Delhi where he met Modi for the second time and held a one-to-one and bilateral meetings.


"They agreed to work together to promote and reinvigorate economic partnership, and to create infrastructure and policy framework to make it attractive for businesses of the two sides to engage with each other," the statement said.

India.

From: India, US Review Implementation of Initiatives by Modi, Obama

[Amber G.]

Small win for the good guys..

NEW DELHI: Pakistan's enforcement of UN financial sanctions against terrorism will be closely monitored by Financial Action Task Force (FATF) through its associate body, the Asia Pacific Group on Money Laundering (APG), after India successfully blocked China's attempt at a recent FATF meet in Brisbane to save non-FATF member Pakistan from such scrutiny.
....

According to sources in the government, India, with the support of allies like the US, managed to derail China's bid which was backed by Australia to shield Pakistan on terror financing. The FATF meet agreed with India's argument that Pakistan, despite not being part of FATF, was part of APG which works in close collaboration with FATF, and its enforcement of targeted financial sanctions against terrorism should be subject to monitoring by FATF through the APG.

At the FATF meeting last week, India and the US spoke up against Pakistan's lack of conviction in implementing anti-terror financial sanctions by freezing assets or attaching properties of 26/11 masterminds Hafiz Saeed and Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi and 1993 Mumbai blasts accused Dawood Ibrahim etc. China, however, argued that Pakistan was doing enough and reporting on the action taken to APG.

India was not satisfied with the report submitted by Pakistan to APG as it listed only unnamed accounts, without identifying their origins and their implications for the group's functioning. This was despite India furnishing enough details on Falah-e-Insaniyat, linked to LeT and Jamaat-ud-Dawah, publicly raising funds. Similar fund-raising at Hafiz Saeed's rallies was also highlighted.

An arrangement was worked out at FATF meet wherein Pakistan's action on terror financing will be evaluated by APG, which will then refer the issue to the FATF.

From:
India/US blocks China's bid to save Pakistan on terror finance scrutiny

[krisna]

Since American independence from British in 1776. It has waged war every year since then.
Overall 93% of its time in war.
About 23 years odd it has not been fighting an enemy.
Infact all USA presidents are wartime presidents, only the degree of war waging differs.

Even the current war sorry peace time president with nobull piece prize is no exception.

Rightly so many non Americans view America as greatest threat to world peace.

[Cosmo_R]

Since American independence from British in 1776. It has waged war every year since then.
Overall 93% of its time in war.
About 23 years odd it has not been fighting an enemy.
Infact all USA presidents are wartime presidents, only the degree of war waging differs.

Even the current war sorry peace time president with nobull piece prize is no exception.

Rightly so many non Americans view America as greatest threat to world peace.

There's a great sigh of relief in Pakistan and China given the implicit absolution.

[Cosmo_R]

+1 Amber G.

[TSJones]

Since American independence from British in 1776. It has waged war every year since then.
Overall 93% of its time in war.
About 23 years odd it has not been fighting an enemy.
Infact all USA presidents are wartime presidents, only the degree of war waging differs.

Even the current war sorry peace time president with nobull piece prize is no exception.

Rightly so many non Americans view America as greatest threat to world peace.

There's a great sigh of relief in Pakistan and China given the implicit absolution.

the streltsy and cossacks gasp in amazement also.........

the French, British and Germans grenadiers grin in glee.

the Texans however are completely baffled and say "So...?".

[chaanakya]

MEA reinstates Khobragade, but Bharara continues to haunt her

As Director States, She has played very important role in transfer of arriving evacuees from Yemen and Syria to their respective states. Her predicament in current situation makes other diplomats vulnerable to similar ambush tactics for others. MEA and GOI has to support her. Personally I believe she has not done anything wrong in that particular case and was victim of ambush by DSS.

NEW DELHI: The recalling of India's high commissioner to New Zealand, after his wife allegedly assaulted a domestic help, has again brought under focus Devyani Khobragade who continues to suffer in the absence of a closure to her case which threatened to derail Indo-US ties not so long back.

The ministry of external affairs (MEA) has sought to make better her situation by reinstating her and making her director of the important States division but with a US arrest warrant still pending against her, the 1999 IFS officer has not been able to travel abroad.

Khobragade had been stripped of her responsibilities with the ministry last year in December and put on "compulsory wait" after she gave interviews to the media in which she said the vigilance inquiry against her was unfair. The inquiry sought to know how her 2 daughters were in possession of both Indian and US passports.

The decision to reinstate Khobragade was taken by foreign secretary S Jaishankar who felt Khobragade was being unnecessarily victimised. That has not fully ended her ordeal though as she is still unable to travel and the passports of her kids remain confiscated.

READ ALSO: Indian HC to leave New Zealand after wife accused of assault

Khobragade met senior officials in the PMO last week to discuss her case. Her children's passports have not been restored yet despite the Delhi high court staying the revocation of the travel documents. The kids are spending their summer vacation with their father in the US but will require Indian visas to return.

The government, however, has decided not to contest the case legally in the US and instead focus on a political settlement. Khobragade has not travelled abroad since she returned to India after her arrest and humiliating strip-search for underpaying her nanny. The ministry is unable to post her to any country with which the US has an extradition treaty.

READ ALSO: Leaving New Zealand not due to allegations, says Indian envoy

"The very fact that she is now posted in an important division shows that the ministry is mindful of her interests," said a senior official who did not wish to be quoted. The official added that MEA's decision to reinstate Khobragade came despite her appeal in court challenging the revocation of her children's passports by the ministry.

Indian authorities have discussed with the US state department the possibility of resolving the issue politically, sources said.

READ ALSO: HC stays order to revoke passports of Devyani Khobragade's kids

US state department though has expressed helplessness in the absence of an approval for such a resolution from the department of justice. Indian officials don't want to engage the department of justice not only because they believe it has no jurisdiction over the issue but also because of the presence there of attorney Preet Bharara who continues to be hostile to Khobragade.

READ ALSO: Preet Bharara will not bend, indicts Devyani Khobragade again

Government in fact may wait for Bharara to demit office as US attorney for Southern District of New York before moving forward. Bharara had chosen to re-indict Khobragade last year even after her return to India, leading India to say that this re-indictment was going to hurt attempts to mend ties between the 2 countries

[schinnas]

Khobragade's case is more complex. She got both Indian passports and US passports for her kids, which as an MEA official should know is not kosher. In general, we should have some strict rules on Indian civil servants in key roles marrying foreign nationals. It exposes them to be manipulated or blackmailed by the host countries.

[Yagnasri]

She did gave interviews etc to press her case which a civil servant who got lot of support from every section of the nation can not do. It is not acceptable.

[gandharva]

Hilary e-mails show US struggling with Pakistan policy amid 'Ghandi' fiasco

For instance, soon after the UPA's government returning to power in the 2009 Lok Sabha election, Clinton aide Huma Abedin, also known as her constant shadow and ''body woman,'' alerts the then Secretary of State about the appointment of S.M.Krishna as India's External Affairs Minister. ''What do we know about him?'' Clinton asks in a reply email. ''Long time politico, was close to rajiv ghandi. III send his bio to oscar to print for you,'' Abedin responds.

Abedin, who was born in Michigan to mixed Indian-Pakistani parents (father from India; mother from Pakistan), is unable to nail the Gandhi spelling notwithstanding her sub-continental heritage and a degree from George Washington University. She later flags for Hillary Clinton's attention possible calls to India following the election results.

''On election calls, SCA is recommending calls to Congress Party head Sonia Ghandi, outgoing FM Mukherjee, and incoming FM Krishna. We also have a call sheet for Prime Minister Singh in case you want to call. Please let me know if u want to do these calls tomorrow,'' she writes. SCA stands for South Central Asia, the State Department bureau that deals with India.

Pakistan too figures in some of the emails, coming across as a major worry for U.S planners on account of its chronic instability due to its support for terror groups.

In fact, in one exchange, a long term strategy group that conducts simulations for U.S agencies on geo-political scenarios writes to Clinton outlining a possibility Pakistan breaking up. It proposed exploring ''The impact of a potential end of effective central government in Pakistan that leaves a Punjab state co-existing with a Baluch/Sindh state and an Afghanistan that expands to control the border regions now part of Pakistan.''

In a more elaborate note, former National Security Adviser Sandy Berger also writes to Clinton suggesting that the U.S target Pakistani military leaders who give support to Al Qaeda and its allies. No one even questions the premise that Pakistan is supporting terror groups.

''Assuming we have adequate intelligence, we can go after bank accounts, travel and other reachable assets of individual Pakistani officers, raising the stakes for those supporting the militants without creating an inordinate backlash,'' Berger writes in an October 4, 2009 e-mail to Hillary Clinton.

''Thanks, Sandy. This is very helpful,'' Clinton responds, without saying whether she intends to accept the suggestion.

On a lighter note, the emails also show Hillary Clinton is clueless about operating a fax machine and has to be walked though how to receive a fax by her aide Huma Abedin.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... s?from=mdr

[Vayutuvan]

To balance Ms. Huma Abedin, some positive news for Indian-Americans -

Indian-American Teacher Receives U.S. Prez's Award

WASHINGTON: Darshan Jain, an Indian-American teacher from Illinois, has been named by U.S. President Barack Obama for prestigious Presidential Award for Excellence in Mathematics and Science Teaching.

Obama has named 108 Mathematics and Science teachers as recipients of the prestigious Presidential Award for Excellence in Mathematics and Science Teaching.

Jain and other winners will receive a $10,000 award each from the National Science Foundation. They will be also invited to Washington, DC, for an awards ceremony, as well educational and celebratory events, and visits with members of the Administration.

[Amber G.]

This kind of narrative comes too often in this dhaga..and needs to be commented on..

..
Rightly so many non Americans view America as greatest threat to world peace.

Yes, so many "non Americans" like Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed , OBL ..
and of course, many others .. like the picture below shows...




OTOH, there are also a few "non Americans" , like Narendra Modi, the ELECTED Prime Minister representing 1.2 billion people who invited the elected president of USA to be India's republic day parade's chief guest..it is simply insane to think that it was done because it is the "greatest threat to world piece"

Also a few "non Americans" (or may be ex-"non Americans) -- million plus from India alone, (including quite a few brf olides and a few brfadmins) CHOSE to make US home for a short or long time..being a productive part of US (and India), sending their kids to US school, being a proud part of US society...

Again it is insane to think that they did that because "US was the greatest threat to peace"..

[krisna]

Amber please see the entirety of my post to make the comment.
Avoid using at random with those pictures of yahoos

Would love. you to contradict my statements with facts.

In fact I have details of the above post I made. It is in google if you search enough

I am posting from phone so difficult to assess it when I made the earlier one and now

[krisna]

This kind of narrative comes too often in this dhaga..and needs to be commented on..

..
Rightly so many non Americans view America as greatest threat to world peace.

Yes, so many "non Americans" like Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed , OBL ..
and of course, many others .. like the picture below shows...

[img]<snip>[/img]


OTOH, there are also a few "non Americans" , like Narendra Modi, the ELECTED Prime Minister representing 1.2 billion people who invited the elected president of USA to be India's republic day parade's chief guest..it is simply insane to think that it was done because it is the "greatest threat to world piece"

Also a few "non Americans" (or may be ex-"non Americans) -- million plus from India alone, (including quite a few brf olides and a few brfadmins) CHOSE to make US home for a short or long time..being a productive part of US (and India), sending their kids to US school, being a proud part of US society...

Again it is insane to think that they did that because "US was the greatest threat to peace"..

One should be able to criticize for what it is with facts.
Blindly supporting is wrong in IMHO.
I criticize and say in my profession also -to my mentors teachers residents also in conferences. I do raise my vice.
I hate being a doormat.



There are many Indians who live in India and criticize . ditto with Americans.
Lot to learn from Americans sure enough. No one disputes it.
So also to unlearn some.

[Karan M]

Modi posed for pics with Chinese premier. Clearly PRC is the greatest thing since sliced bread. :p

[Manny]

HAPPY JULY 4TH! TODAY IS THE B’DAY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

http://www.desicontrarian.com/?p=1100





Please note: Not a single one of the of the founding fathers were a Baptist let alone a Southern Baptist Evangelical or a Pentecostal. In fact, never forget that these two evangelicals groups campaigned to not ratify the American Constitution because there was not a single mention of Christianity or Jesus in either the deceleration or the Constitution of the United States of America.

The Religion of the founding Fathers. Most them were deists and Free Mason. The Vatican even had a Fatwa against the Free Masons. Basically the Vatican had a Fatwa against George Washington, Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson et al.

Some excerpts from the father of the American Revolution – Thomas Paine.

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

I do not mean by this declaration to condemn those who believe otherwise; they have the same right to their belief as I have to mine. But it is necessary to the happiness of man, that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe.

It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind, as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime. He takes up the trade of a priest for the sake of gain, and in order to qualify himself for that trade, he begins with a perjury. Can we conceive any thing more destructive to morality than this?

On Revelation:

No one will deny or dispute the power of the Almighty to make such a communication, if he pleases. But admitting, for the sake of a case, that something has been revealed to a certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that person only. When he tells it to a second person, a second to a third, a third to a fourth, and so on, it ceases to be a revelation to all those persons. It is revelation to the first person only, and hearsay to every other, and consequently they are not obliged to believe it.

It is a contradiction in terms and ideas, to call anything a revelation that comes to us at second-hand, either verbally or in writing. Revelation is necessarily limited to the first communication — after this, it is only an account of something which that person says was a revelation made to him; and though he may find himself obliged to believe it, it cannot be incumbent on me to believe it in the same manner; for it was not a revelation made to me, and I have only his word for it that it was made to him.

When Moses told the children of Israel that he received the two tables of the commandments from the hands of God, they were not obliged to believe him, because they had no other authority for it than his telling them so; and I have no other authority for it than some historian telling me so. The commandments carry no internal evidence of divinity with them; they contain some good moral precepts, such as any man qualified to be a lawgiver, or a legislator, could produce himself, without having recourse to supernatural intervention

[Amber G.]

[Viv S]

Would love. you to contradict my statements with facts.

Well if we're talking about 'facts', one is constrained to point out that the very first post you made on the matter was factually incorrect -

Since American independence from British in 1776. It has waged war every year since then.

The whole 'one major war every year decade' bit actually applies to US post WWII. In the preceding 160 years, it participated in only half a dozen major conflicts and another half a dozen minor conflicts. Until being hit at Pearl Harbour. under its 'isolationist' foreign policy it was reluctant to involve itself in WWII as well.

[pankajs]

Doordarshan NewsVerified account @DDNewsLive

SC orders trial of 35 crew members of US vessel under arms act

[Manish_P]

List of American 'Conflicts'

Of course it ain't a war till America say it is one

[krisna]

List of American 'Conflicts'

Of course it ain't a war till America say it is one

Thanks Manish.

Yes this was the article I came across in google and also in Twitter

The words I used were more or less similar to the article.

Viv you post your comment on the article. America expanded initially demolishing very inch of resistance coast to coast .Became a big power of its own over the years.

Amber G - the article is by a non Indian likely American . now what will your response be.

[Viv S]

Viv you post your comment on the article. America expanded initially demolishing very inch of resistance coast to coast .Became a big power of its own over the years.

Well, if we're willing to define a conflict conducted without a military mobilization as a 'war', we'd need a whole new word to describe the kind of conflicts that the European powers engaged in (they even had names like 'Thirty Years War' and 'Hundred Years War').

By the same metric I'd wager UK, France, Spain and Russia have spent a much large proportion of their respective histories engaged in 'war'. In fact, come to think of it, even our military has been continually engaged in low-level conflict since the early '60s.