Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attack

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jul 2015 18:05

how are drugs smuggled into punjab? via tunnels or some other means?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 28 Jul 2015 18:22

A_Gupta wrote:
Punjab police did not complain that they had no bullet-proof vests or had less capable weapons. At least honor that by not complaining.

The Martyre SP was promoted 10 days before. he told his ASI that " mein inko khader kar hi rahoonga".
His father, also in Punjab Police , got martyred during peak of Khalistani movement.

PP is battle hardened. They would not fear such attacks nor make any excuse.

habal · Post by **habal** » 28 Jul 2015 18:22

Intelligence work is a very dirty work. In this field, you just do not attack from the front but always sneaky covert ops using proxies. If you have to rely on this as first line of defence, it just shows how weak a country is.

That all Pkstanis have taken on the line of defence that moribund Khalistan operation is been revived is proof that this is an ISI operation and not a false flag operation of Hindustan to avenge TSPA ops in Waziristan were supposedly nodes of Indian RAW were neutralized. If I were a kith and kin of Pakistani army personnel or an army officer. I should be very afraid.

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 28 Jul 2015 18:25

During the 26/11 crisis, the Manmohan Singh government attempted to directly leverage the superior position in terms of information that the Bombay Police investigations gave it. The basic plan at the time was to invite the DG-ISI to India for discussions and to present the data from the Bombay Police investigations directly to his face in New Delhi. Being quite savvy in the art of deflection, the DG-ISI Shuja Ahmed Pasha declined the invitation and sought to meet with Indian representatives on neutral ground in the presence of US intermediaries. In this fashion the first strategic counter move of the Manmohan Singh government was defeated. The information collected by the Bombay Police eventually found its way into multiple court filings in the US by the family of one of the American victims of the tragedy. This resulted in a law suit that named the ISI as a criminal co-conspirator in the terrorist act.

The second strategic counter move of the MMS government came in the form of the ACMs offer of an aggressive armed Su-30MKI patrol that overflew the LeT camps. This caused the PA-ISI leadership to have to inform the LeT leadership that it could not guarantee that the LeT's home base - and the homes of its founding members - would be defended against IAF bombing. The only way to guarantee that the LeT leaders' houses would not be bombed by the IAF was to show that Pakistan and the LeT was cooperating with the Indian criminal investigation. As the IAF successfully held out the threat of a bombing, that pressure caused the arrest of Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi. This resulted in a major fissure between the LeT and the PA-ISI, something that will play out on a much larger timescale. IMO this can be counted as a major success of the MMS regime's strategic counter offensive.

In the public eye of course, this kind of subtle information was lost in the cacophony of nationalistic chest thumping.

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 28 Jul 2015 18:26

Singha wrote:how are drugs smuggled into punjab? via tunnels or some other means?

Tunnels or pipes for certain cartels, trucks and train for others.

There are plenty of traffickers on the Indian side and the Pakistani side. The most likely points of networking are in Canada or UK. It is a truly transnational crime.

One name that has cropped up in recent investigation is Major Singh in UK formerly of Bajwa Kalan in Jallandar. He has not been arrested yet.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 28 Jul 2015 18:29

GRAPHIC IMAGES - NSFW

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYvSiUAAAdyJo.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYs65UAAANIkb.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYqy8UEAATQ9k.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYojGUwAA8eQQ.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYmLiUMAAfAvG.jpg

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 28 Jul 2015 18:31

GRAPHIC IMAGES - NSFW

Shaheed SP

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYhZzUkAE4odK.jpg

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 28 Jul 2015 18:31

Any paki group taking claim? Looks like we got lucky with some alert people like that bus driver and the one who spotted bombs on tracks.

Modi is being tested. They probably planned this hastily after the Ufa meet

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Jul 2015 18:36

SBajwa wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYvSiUAAAdyJo.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYs65UAAANIkb.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYqy8UEAATQ9k.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYojGUwAA8eQQ.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYmLiUMAAfAvG.jpg

Many thanks Bajwaji. FWIW that makes me feel better

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 28 Jul 2015 18:41

SBajwa wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYvSiUAAAdyJo.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYs65UAAANIkb.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYqy8UEAATQ9k.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYojGUwAA8eQQ.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYmLiUMAAfAvG.jpg

nice Job Punjab police...this is the way pigs should be slaughtered...

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 28 Jul 2015 18:58

SBajwa wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYvSiUAAAdyJo.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYs65UAAANIkb.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYqy8UEAATQ9k.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYojGUwAA8eQQ.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYmLiUMAAfAvG.jpg

How many of these images are from the PS Dinanagar situation?

Image 2 and Image 5 have no overlap - it is not the same people.

If there were 5 assaulters, where are the other two? Video camera footage at Dinanpur shows 3 attackers wearing distinct webbing. No such webbing is evident in image 1.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 28 Jul 2015 19:02

Excellent. Why was their a news about IA uniforms? These pigs are the garden variety salwar wetting mofos.

member_28638 · Post by **member_28638** » 28 Jul 2015 19:09

Altair wrote:Let us continue talks withPakistan but for Gods sake launch a battery of Brahmos on Muridke to send a message. Do it now!

Time to develop the most advanced killer robots and drones the planet has ever seen and use them. Stop pussyfooting!

Ask ourselves: what would the Americans and Israelis do if this happened on their soil?

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 28 Jul 2015 19:21

chakra wrote:
Altair wrote:Let us continue talks withPakistan but for Gods sake launch a battery of Brahmos on Muridke to send a message. Do it now!
Time to develop the most advanced killer robots and drones the planet has ever seen and use them. Stop pussyfooting!

Ask ourselves: what would the Americans and Israelis do if this happened on their soil?

attack the easiest country to attack , no matter , what the source was .... eg if Pakistan or China or Russia , sponsor a terror strike in pittsburgabad , than ensure that Assad is blamed and bomb the crap out of Syria...

BTW similar massacres occur in massa over a monthly basis ....

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Jul 2015 19:26

chakra wrote:
Ask ourselves: what would the Americans and Israelis do if this happened on their soil?

American hawa blows like a storm though our minds.

America attacked Afghanistan and Iraq and devastated both nations for 10 years till bin Laden was found in Pakistan. Pakistan is an ally

Tell you want - Congress and MSA are correct. More dialog! if we do what the Americans did we will make Pakistan our ally

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 28 Jul 2015 19:36

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f54_1438 ... comments=1

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 28 Jul 2015 19:41

chakra wrote: Ask ourselves: what would the Americans and Israelis do if this happened on their soil?

Let us see now..the americans attacked Iraq when the culprit was pakistan (and made the culprit their ally on the war on terror and handed them a few billion $s in aid).

So who should India attack this time? How about Tajikistan (or Mongolia)? India can make Pakistan its foremost ally in fighting terror and attack Tajikistan to prove that India is as smart as the awesome americans.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jul 2015 19:42

israel despite the huge concrete fence and sensors/shooters is still unable to deal with kassam rockets, tunnels or hit n run sneak attacks on a regular basis. the hamas and hezbollah still exist openly in gaza strip, west bank and lebanon after decades of israeli beatings.

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 28 Jul 2015 19:43

Timeline so far

4:55 AM 27-07-2015 - attackers are sighted by a surveillance camera near the Dinanagar Bypass on the highway - just south of Parmanand Railway Station.
5:00 AM - 5:30 AM 27-07-2015 - attackers attempt to seize tempo and kill dhaba stall owner in the process.
5:00 AM - 5:30 AM 27-07-2015 - attackers fire on Punjab Roadways bus driven by Nanak Chand injuring six passengers.
5:00 AM - 5:30 AM 27-07-2015 - attackers seize white Maruti car belonging to Kamaljit Singh. (PB09 B 7743)
5:00 AM - 5:30 AM 27-07-2015 - attackers fire indiscriminately near bus stand and make way to community health centre near DS Dinanagar where they kill four people.
5:30 AM 27-07-2015 attackers seize PS Dinanagar.

So if they crossed somewhere near Jalala Sharif on the Pakistani side. Did they cross the Ravi at Kolian? and how did they get from there to Parmanand?

It is a 12 mile distance from Jalala Sharif to Parmanand assuming a crossing at Kolian- that is a 3-4 hour jog for a well trained fully loaded infantry man. That would put the time of the actual crossing at around midnight.

There are BSF posts and patrol areas directly lining this sector of the international border.

How did the fidayeen get past those? How did they get so far in?

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 28 Jul 2015 19:45

Cold Start, taking land, overflights, naval blockade, killing PA/LeT jihadis etc. won't work simply b/c the army/jihadi complex will still be alive. If anything it'll make it worse. The only solution which I believe is quietly being worked on is arming the baloch. The PA/ISI may be gearing up to put it down which may explain why the level of activity in the region has increased substantially in the last few months. Modi isn't the type to do a small symbolic action here and there and then retreat home. He's a finisher. I think Pakistan is going to be in excruciating pain soon.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 28 Jul 2015 19:46

IMO, if the question is to be asked, then at least the proper question should be asked: What would America do prior to 2000, prior to its disastrous wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? Actually, prior to 1990? During the Cold War, the US suffered from a constraint of not getting into a war with the Soviet Union, which is at least a bit analogous to the constraint on India.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 28 Jul 2015 19:54

Singha wrote:israel despite the huge concrete fence and sensors/shooters is still unable to deal with kassam rockets, tunnels or hit n run sneak attacks on a regular basis. the hamas and hezbollah still exist openly in gaza strip, west bank and lebanon after decades of israeli beatings.

also one must remember that piggistan is a sh!t hole of 25 crore pigs ... entire Hamas and hisbollah would probably fit in a small part of k'rachi ...

we face a situation even worse than the Russians did in WW2...

Covert ops and small targeted killings , and freezing finance of the pigs is the only way....

There does not seem to be any tangible way of having absolute zero terror strikes for the next 20 years at least...that is the sad truth....

one should keep being offensive on the covert front....and the international relations front...and improve internal security and intelligence capacity...That way we can minimize the damage....

A tangible goal is free independent Balochistan and POK rejoining the union of India...and ensuring that terror related casualties are minimized ...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jul 2015 19:55

US could do precious little even against Cuba which was a needle in its flank and frequent host to soviet navy. same for guinea in west africa where the airbase at Conakry was used by soviet naval bombers to end their long atlantic needling patrols. it did beat up grenada and panama though......it could not do anything much against Iran except arming the Iraqis...this after the american hostage thing and the failure of the rescue mission.

in initial hours it is said the terrorists took a bus to where they started shooting...though with their weapons and general paki goat looks i wonder who would not immediately phone the police.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jul 2015 19:58

perhaps the looming water crisis in TSP with the Indus essentially being sent to its death will hasten the formation of a vast armed kabila willing and able to launch a frontal assault on india - some 25 million perhaps armed to razakar levels to support the regular jihadis in uniform....the biggest army in the world and bigger than next 10 combined in manpower. Saif-ul-Islam.

we need to develop conventional weapons of great 'area effect' on a mass scale and make as cheap as possible to deal with the coming 'peoples war' by mid-century

we need to also up the 15 yr old single line rusted Raj and Guj border fences to J&K-Punjab levels .... it will take some time.

habal · Post by **habal** » 28 Jul 2015 19:59

Sincerely,

after Kargil, 26/11, 93/2006/2011 Mumbai blasts if we expect peace with Pakistan then it is insult to our memory of the martyrs and innocents who died in these. It means we wish to escape the responsibility to avenge their deaths and comfort their near and dear ones and instead live in comfort.

We can rest only after we ziba the heads of those pakjabis who were responsible and display them above 'Minar-e-Pakistan' for an year for everyone to see and admire. Run Paki Run, escape the hand that holds the knife aimed to slice your jugular.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 28 Jul 2015 20:04

We are told that the monsoon floods punch holes in the electrified fence at the Indo-Pak border, and tall elephant grass grows giving cover to infiltrators. Is the fence problem something that can be solved with clever civil engineering?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jul 2015 20:06

problem is on our side if we could have a 1KM DMZ, with cleared land and sensors , infiltration would 100x more tough...but due to population pressure its farmed right upto the border and even patches of land beyond the fence.

and there are marshy areas and river boundaries since punjab has many small rivers and canals.

we could have Soko style DMZ border in Guj and Raj though.

Shaktimaan · Post by **Shaktimaan** » 28 Jul 2015 20:38

This was a major attack. The pigs had automatic weapons, bombs and grenades. The heroism and vigilance of the people like the bus driver, railway karmachari who found the bombs on the tracks and of course the Punjab Police foiled the plans that the pigs had.

So this was really a Mumbai level attack. What is the "person we admire" advising Modiji to do in retaliation?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 28 Jul 2015 20:48

I hadn't realized that the terrorists hit a community hospital that is next to the Dinanagar police station. Ghulam Rasul, a patient, and Nirmala Devi, an attendant to patients, were two of the civilians killed there.

PS: the address of the Dinanagar police station, per Google maps is:
Dinanagar Police Station
Opp Girls School
National Highway 15
Dinanagar, Punjab 143531
India

I'm going oh sh**, did these guys mistime their attack, maybe wanted to hit the school?
(Since the attack was detected early in the morning, all schools were closed.)

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 28 Jul 2015 20:49

Singha wrote:the people who laid the railway bombs are still on the loose.

==> so another incident or attack is imminent.

Unless they exhausted their bomb material.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jul 2015 21:30

these pindi chana and mutton fed boys are strong . each could have hauled a 20kg sack of explosives and handed off to the railway demolitions team who might be on loose.

potentially another team could have slipped in at same time and made for delhi safehouse with sympathizer help to prepare for august 15.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 28 Jul 2015 21:56

^^^ IMHO Gurdaspur was the staging area where all men and material met at one place. You don't actually have to carry a GPS to reach this place, nor you have to carry all your weapon load with you.

Their aim was to create mayhem, a job at which they failed at every point (attack on bus, then bus stop, then a Maruti 800, etc). I think somehow they got cold feet and things went downhill from there.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 28 Jul 2015 21:59

The Ravi rivers that runs through the border has many baki enclaves across the river on our side as well as we have enclaves across the river. It is very hard to fence through such a river. They could have easily crossed a river on an enclave on their side days ahead of crossing the border (in a baki village) and then wait for the opportunity between the BSF patrols., through the river Ravi.

Please check the map, river ravi and International border here

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.1278444 ... 003,12.04z

Dinanagar Police Station

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.1279687 ... a=!3m1!1e3

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 28 Jul 2015 22:09

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab ... 12285.html

Ravi Dhaliwal

Tribune News Service

Dinanagar, July 27
Trackman Ashwani Saini turned out to be the saviour for 270 passengers of the Amritsar-bound 54612 down passenger train that came to a grinding halt just 3 km away before Dinanagar.

The train, having seven bogeys, started its journey from Pathankot at 5.10 am and it came to a halt just 100 yards away from the bridge where five bombs (attached to sophisticated detonating devices) were planted on the track. The site where the explosives were planted is barely 2 km away from Dinanagar. Terrorists selected their target with care. They knew if the bombs went off while the train was passing over the bridge, not only the passengers will be affected, but the bridge will also be blown up, thereby throwing the rail traffic out of gear on the track.

Ashwani Saini (42), according to Dinanagar station master Gurdial Saini, was on duty checking the line from Dinanagar to Jhakholari. At 6 am, he spotted five bombs on the bridge. Saini did not get cold feet. Holding a red flag in his right hand, he started running towards the train.

Saini, an employee of the Engineering Department of the Ferozepur railway division, frantically waved the red flag while running towards the train. Luckily, the train driver noticed him and applied brakes. The train came to a halt just 100 yards away from the bombs.

Saini informed the station master, who then called up district administration officials. A bomb-disposal squad of the Army was pressed into service that rendered the bombs ineffective in around two hours. An engine was requisitioned from Pathankot to pull the train back to the city.

Dinanagar, Gurdaspur, Dhariwal and Batala railway stations were got vacated and search operations launched by the Railway Protection Force (RPF) and the police.

Gurdial Saini was all praise for the trackman. “A tragedy of insurmountable proportions has been averted due to the presence of mind exhibited by Ashwani Saini. The man showed immense character. We should salute him,” he said.

Recommendation for award
Divisional Railway Manager (Ferozepur) Anuj Prakash has recommended to the railway board to confer an individual award on trackman Ashwani Saini for his act

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jul 2015 22:37

wig wrote:Op frequently revised as Punjab cops wanted to lead
http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab ... 12273.html
The final manoeuvre to nab the Lashkar-e-Taiba militants engaged in today’s encounter had to be rescheduled on several occasions with the Punjab Police top brass repeatedly denying permission to the Army to take control of the entire operation.
The first helicopter carrying scores of Army men landed at the PAU regional station grounds at 9.43 am after an SOS was sent to the Tibri cantonment officials by DC Abhinav Trikha. The DC, after being given feedback about the latest development by senior police officers around 8.30 am, held hectic confabulations with other administration officers at his camp office.
However, after getting feedback from SSP Gurpreet Singh Toor, the DC sensed that the situation had the potential to go out of hand. At 8.43 am he took a final call. The Army had to be called in. A phone call was placed to the Tibri cantonment officials and the Army was asked to reach Dinanagar as “some terrorists had taken control of a police station in Dinanagar.”

Receiving the information, the Army went on an overdrive. The first of nearly half a dozen choppers landed exactly an hour after the DC had requested the Army to be in a “state of preparedness.” The soldiers were driven from the PAU campus in trucks to the police station, 10 km away.

An hour later, the venue was surrounded by nearly 150 Army men. A senior officer confided that initially the Army officers took a measure of what exactly was going on. Later, around 11.50 am, a senior Army officer requested the Punjab Police to hand over the operation to them. However, he was asked to wait with a senior officer telling him that only DGP Sumedh Singh Saini could take such a decision. The cops were on their toes waiting for their boss to arrive. Finally, Saini reached the operation site around 1 pm - more than seven hours after the militants had fired the first bullet in the city at 5.30 am.

Later, he met the DC, IG (border range) Ishwar Chander Sharma, DIG Arun Kumar Mittal, SSPs of Gurdaspur, Pathankot and Majitha and other senior officials.

“We decided to engage them with intermittent fire till they run out of ammunition. However, when we were ready to take the operation to another level, news filtered in that the terrorists might be ‘human bombs’. Once again we had to change our plans,” he disclosed. At this time, the Army once again asked the police to let them take control. However, this time police officers told them that all intricacies of raiding the old DSP’s office, where the militants had taken refuge, had been worked out and that only the police would be undertaking this operation. Even the 140-odd NSG and SPG commandoes were kept at bay.
Some senior officers had veered around to the view that the Army should be handed over the reigns. However, due to some inexplicable reason, which was never made public, the Army was again asked to wait. A team of the BSF was pulled out from duty from the border and placed at the disposal of the police. Meanwhile, the Army personnel did not sit idle and launched a massive search operation.

Shows the crisis action response time line and some elements.

Fact is SWAT team arrived without weapons and yet the siege was allowed to continue.
Once the weapons were available the siege was finished in 10 mins.

Looks like need for some after action lessons learned review is in order.
- SWAT should always have weapons at the ready.
- Helicopters should land as close as possible to action site and not far away requiring transport. What if roads are mined?
- Eliminating terrorists is not an ego issue but an expeditious matter.
- If Army had not sought control but act under police control it could have been expeditious.
- Also if DC is the top civilian control in his district, what is this differ to DGP business. DC already called in Army.

DC needs to re-establish chain of command in his area.

The goal should be to neutralize terrorists as quickly as possible.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jul 2015 22:42

chakra wrote:
Altair wrote:Let us continue talks withPakistan but for Gods sake launch a battery of Brahmos on Muridke to send a message. Do it now!
Time to develop the most advanced killer robots and drones the planet has ever seen and use them. Stop pussyfooting!

Ask ourselves: what would the Americans and Israelis do if this happened on their soil?

If its the former give more military aid to Pakistan.
If its the latter bomb a few places as brutus fulmen.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 28 Jul 2015 22:43

Oh man that dude averted a bloodbath in Gurdaspur.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jul 2015 23:02

I also wonder if Pakis are monitoring news and doing their own lessons learned on how to do it better next time?

A_Gupta the terrorists were planning to attack the girls school. That is the objective.
Now why does DDM keep saying Kahlistan when the attackers are clearly Paki terrorists?

I think BBC was first to put this false info out to add confusion.
Then BDutt added Sikhs to the mix.

Harpal, Welcome back. Miss your incisive insights.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jul 2015 23:04

Can India identify these as Pak ISIS module and bomb their hideouts like Turkey is doing in Syria and Iraq?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Jul 2015 23:12

whatever happened to dovalji's plan of offensive defence?