Many dead, including Police SP in Gurdaspur Terror attack

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 29 Jul 2015 06:18

shiv wrote:
Harpal Bector wrote:So far no material link to Pakistan.
I wonder what difference it would make to anything or anyone if a material link to Pakistan were found. Typically (from memory) I recall that 90% of terrorist attacks have no material link to Pakistan. Links are usually discovered after some chap is caught alive and milked for what he is worth.

I certainly don't want to be the person that goes in front of the PM, Amit Shah, the NSA, the COAS, the DIB, and the Secy(R) and presents conjectures about Pakistani involvement without hard facts and material evidence to back it up. If there is no hard data, then it is best not to present such conjectures before the PM at all.

This is the real escalation control that has been inserted in this event cycle.

I think if this is Aabpara's doing, then I have to hand it to them - it is a very controlled provocation. Whoever has done this in the building, that person is a true mastermind. It is a very big break with the ISI's history of leaving a large trail of evidence. This is the first time they have carried out a completely deniable operation.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 29 Jul 2015 06:20

Long ago I had said the obvious that others have said to....Pakistan sponsors the drugs. Why is it not so rampant in JK?

krishna_krishna · Post by **krishna_krishna** » 29 Jul 2015 06:21

Couldn't agree more since mugal times, nation owes lot of gratitude

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Jul 2015 06:22

SBajwa wrote:There is no Sikh involved here! So please if we can stop going towards that route!! The Sikhs that were involved were Home Guards, Punjab Police, Border Security Force and Indian Army!

The nefarous designs to declare that Sikhs are "terrorists" are coming from the media!!

If something happens in Punjab Paki wankers say "Sikhs trying to break away"

If something happens in Tamil Nadu Paki wankers say "Tamilians trying to break away"

If something happens in Orissa or Jharkhand Paki wankers say "tribals trying to break away"

If something happens in Nagaland Paki wankers say "Nagas trying to break away"

Paki wankers need to remember that the only wankers who broke away were their own mother and fathers and now they are trying to get back in.

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 29 Jul 2015 06:27

shiv wrote: The Paki army and ISI are criminal enterprises and if Manmohan Singh and his coterie did not understand this - shame on them. As if showing material evidence would have worked. Easy to say that "something would have happened if XYZ had occurred". If my aunt had a dick she would have been my uncle.

What you say about uncles and aunts is true, but I still feel an opportunity to put India-Pakistan ties on a new footing was squandered.

One could attribute this to a criminal element being at play, but more likely that Shuja Pasha was quite simply put no Hamid Gul.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Jul 2015 06:27

Harpal Bector wrote:
shiv wrote:
I wonder what difference it would make to anything or anyone if a material link to Pakistan were found. Typically (from memory) I recall that 90% of terrorist attacks have no material link to Pakistan. Links are usually discovered after some chap is caught alive and milked for what he is worth.
I certainly don't want to be the person that goes in front of the PM, Amit Shah, the NSA, the COAS, the DIB, and the Secy(R) and presents conjectures about Pakistani involvement without hard facts and material evidence to back it up. If there is no hard data, then it is best not to present such conjectures before the PM at all.

This is the real escalation control that has been inserted in this event cycle.

This is a perfectly rational viewpoint.

It is also something that Pakistanis can exploit. Would there ever be any material evidence that Pakistanis are "gaming" Indian responses by provoking and knowing that escalation control would prevent escalation because of "lack of evidence". If I was advisor to the PM I would like to tell him that this rational "escalation control" response can be gamed so that we never respond

Are the advisors to our prime ministers so stupid that they cannot understand this - for all the hi funda "escalation control"

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 29 Jul 2015 06:42

Shiv - I don't know who advises whom these days. I only know what I would never do. The rest is not in my hands.

The sophistication of this entire thing is novel.

We can wait a few more days to see what happens, but I suspect there is a new Grandmaster in the big building on Suhrawardy Street.

This Gurdaspur thing is his first move on the eastern border.

The deal that ejected the Tajiks from Aminat was the opening move on the western border.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 29 Jul 2015 07:06

Every Raju and Rani knows Pakistani hand in the previous 1008 events. If India is looking for some opportunity, then be it the PM or others truth will be told in addition to highlighting the opportunity to show something. Material evidence is not needed. If there is the political will then Indian babus , afasars and fauj can be relied to send the message.

Question is what message does Modi want to send now. I think he is going to wait for a few days more because of Kalam's sad demise; but the balls must have been set rolling.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 29 Jul 2015 07:36

RamaY wrote:
SBajwa wrote:GRAPHIC IMAGES - NSFW

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYvSiUAAAdyJo.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYs65UAAANIkb.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYqy8UEAATQ9k.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYojGUwAA8eQQ.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLAYmLiUMAAfAvG.jpg
The second pic is interesting, when is it taken & who/how/where found it?

I hear nowadin electronic cameras leave an electronic signature on pictures taken (mobile phones even record GPS location). Hope Indian authorities analyze this dimension too.

Can a Rakshak run a google image search on that picture and see if they can find something? I am on ipadme

Paging Raja Bose!

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/hizb ... 48675.html

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Jul 2015 07:37

Harpal Bector wrote:Shiv - I don't know who advises whom these days. I only know what I would never do. The rest is not in my hands.

The sophistication of this entire thing is novel.

We can wait a few more days to see what happens, but I suspect there is a new grand master in the big building on Suhrawardy Street.

This Gurdaspur thing is his first move on the eastern border.

The deal that ejected the Tajiks from Aminat was the opening move on the western border.

My own reactions are emotion based. I feel this way after each attack and I am certain everyone else, including PMs advisers probaby echo my feeling.

I cannot comment on the PM - but one thing seems clear to me. There are facts about Pakistan which should be better known to Indians and those facts would perhaps help Indians understand what we face. We accuse every government of manipulating and feeding the media - and to me the media do not seem to understand much about Pakistan and I see no indicators that the polity and certainly not the public, are any more informed

1. From 1947 the establishment ("governments/powers-that-be") in Pakistan have found it necessary to declare India the enemy - possibly as a way of unifying Pakistan
2. Islam has been used as a unifying tool in Pakistan by educating (by the used of newspapers/radio/TV) that Islam is in danger from "Hindu India"
3. After 1971 (actually 1974) Islamization in education has resulted in several generations of Pakistanis under 45 (born in the 1970s) seeing India as a Hindu enemy that cannot be trusted. this is a very real problem and this indoctrination cannot be changed overnight. One on one encounters with friendly and hospitable Pakistanis does not reflect this fact - but teh facts have been recorded by a series of Pakistani and non Pakistani authors. Indians choose to disbblieve recorded fact in favour of the comfortable myth that Pakistanis, given the choice, will simply love us
4. Pakistan is governed by a rapacious elite who do not really care about human development like maternal and infant mortality in rural Pakistan or in peripheral provinces
5. There is an artificially built up but very real and existing anger in Pakistan that Hindus and Indians need to be punished and that this will help India break up and restore the right of Pakistanis and Islam to rule

No amount of love and goodwill shown by India towards Pakistan can change this for the next 30-40 years

Pakistani behaviour towards India is easily explained by the above facts but Indians by and large led by an ignorant media and blinkered polity act confused and lost when it comes to dealing with Pakistan. I have been told time and again that people who matter know. That is actually nonsense. The people who know do not seem to matter. The people who matter do not know.

Indian public opinion should reflect the truth about Pakistan. It does not and since Indian public opinion is ignorant, our politicians and bureaucrats who take their orders remain at a loss when it comes to dealing with Pakistan because hard solutions are vetoed by ignorant educated and powerful Indians

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Jul 2015 07:47

Pakistanis tried an attack on Kashmir in 1947 and mananged to grab PoK

The tried again in 1965 and failed 1965 differed fom 1947 because it was as surreptitious grab that was to be followed by an open grab

1971 was not about Kashmir

In 1999 , after nuclear weapons were tested, Pakistan tried another surreptitious grab and failed. No open grab was attempted unlike 1947 and 1965

Instead Pakistan resorted to widespread deniable terrorism in India and the peak was Mumbai 26/11. This resulted in Indian internal security being beefed up.

Pakistan is unlikely to try a direct grab of Kashmir again. Surreptitious Kargil like grab will be difficult and they will not go down that route again.

Mumbai 26/11 was a success, except that a Paki got caught. A repeat attack with deniability where Pakistanis cannot be blamed will be tempting.

Pakistan's young unemployed population along with the Paki army's new found money and traing will ensure that we get some extremely well trained jihadi commandos attacking india again. This is what we must expect.

I would like to see a vicious revenge attack on a Paki training camp. Even if not much damage is done, the act of attacking will send a signal far louder than the effect of the attack

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 29 Jul 2015 08:02

Finding definite material evidence at this time might result in pressure to do something precipitate. The first thing for Modi-Doval to do is to control the narrative. If we know everything they know then that is a very poorly played hand indeed.

As I asked earlier, if Modi-Doval are going to do something covert, how would we know, how could they tell us? I didn't get a meaningful answer.

In the absence of open hostilities, all you can do is trust and be patient. If you have no trust, that is your prerogative; but you're not going to get any satisfaction anyway.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 29 Jul 2015 08:03

shiv wrote:The people who know do not seem to matter. The people who matter do not know.

So Doval who has spent years undercover in Pakistan either does not know or does not matter?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 29 Jul 2015 08:18

I like the chinese 'response' to outspoken western indignation on hyooman rites etc. "China rejects all foreign criticism on an internal matter." Spoken by some nondescript baboo somewhere. End of story.

We too should attack Pak camps and leave enough evidence to lead back to us. So what if Pak jumps up and down claiming we did it? We'll simply reject the criticism and move on to the next camp attack. Only.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Jul 2015 08:44

A_Gupta wrote:
shiv wrote:The people who know do not seem to matter. The people who matter do not know.
So Doval who has spent years undercover in Pakistan either does not know or does not matter?

I would like to see Doval and Modi change the narrative. The "narrative" has not been changed at all, but let me define what I mean by "the narrative"

In general in India I get the sense that the general public increasingly see Pakistan as an irritant that needs to be shamed or mocked. But this does not extend to the government and babus who continue on the line of "We will hold talks, make peace and request Pakistanis to attend to our concerns about terrorism"

These then are the "public narrative" and the "government narrative"

The problem with the government narrative is that it makes no effort to inform the Indian public that Pakistan is a dysfunctional state with multiple power centers. Dealing with one power center is useless. But it is not possible to "deal with" or "do deals with" the Pakistan army and "LeT" separately. the choice that the government faces is to:

a. Either continue to muddle through and try to deal with whatever passes for "government" in Pakistan and hope that things simply turn out right, ignoring the fact of multiple power centers. Even Modi did this recently
b. Make the general public aware that Pakistan is a dysfuntional state where the "government" does not control everything and that there are a lot of groups that actively preach hatred against India and Hindus. Doing deals with the government are useless unless the jihadis and army are on board. The jihadis and army will not do deals with us that will be to our benefit or even mutual benefit.

To me the Indian government should be doing "b" above. Not "a".

Making Pakistan and the world know that we know and recognize the reality of Pakistani internal dynamics vis-s-vis India is one simple step forward.

Why are Indian governments not doing this? Possible reasons are
1. Indian governments are afraid of tearing the secular fabric of the nation by telling the truth
2. Indian governments are afraid that they will be accused of preaching hatred for simply telling the truth
3. The Indian government simply does not understand these things at a high enough level to be able to deal with it.
4. The Indian government does not believe all that I have said to be true and that they know that Pakistani are a good people who will behave like India and get the army and jihadis on board if we keep trying

Now YOU tell me which is the most likely explanation.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 29 Jul 2015 08:51

Navroop Singh ‏@s_navroop 1h1 hour ago

Gurdaspur attack: US government marks on night-vision devices used by terrorists ---http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... errorists/ …

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 29 Jul 2015 08:51

Now YOU tell me which is the most likely explanation.

LeT and ISIS are RAA Agints onlee.

Baluchistan, Pakhtoonistan, Balwaristan and Swat Liberation Movements need a bit more time.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Jul 2015 09:00

pankajs wrote:Navroop Singh ‏@s_navroop 1h1 hour ago

Gurdaspur attack: US government marks on night-vision devices used by terrorists ---http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... errorists/ …

The paki army, thru proxies, regularly loot US govt military cargo containers transiting thru paki land on the way to afghanistan.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Jul 2015 09:23

chetak wrote:
pankajs wrote:Navroop Singh ‏@s_navroop 1h1 hour ago

Gurdaspur attack: US government marks on night-vision devices used by terrorists ---http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... errorists/ …
The paki army, thru proxies, regularly loot US govt military cargo containers transiting thru paki land on the way to afghanistan.

These could simply be legitimate US supplies to Pakistan.

yvijay · Post by **yvijay** » 29 Jul 2015 09:26

Graphic images of the terrorists -- from twitter @darksbond NSFW !

arun · Post by **arun** » 29 Jul 2015 09:32

X Posted from the Islamism thread.

Reuters via NDTV reports that Gurdaspur attack Identified as a Mohammadden Terrorist event presumable on account of missile being found to have jettisoned heat shields.

Sumedh Singh Saini, Director General of Police in Punjab:

Terrorists in Gurdaspur Attack Were Muslim: Police ……………………….

"The inspection of the bodies shows that the assailants were Muslims,"

More on the Mohammadden identity of the Terrorists from Hindustan Times which besides mentioning that terrorists were uncircumscribed also talks of body hair being shaved, a practice followed by Mohammadden suicide attackers :

Gurdaspur attackers in early 20s, had trimmed beard, shaved chest, GPS devices ……………………..

Three heavily armed terrorists behind Monday’s audacious attack in Gurdaspur district were ostensibly Muslims, said official sources ……………………….

“The gunmen, in their early 20s, were found to be circumcised and had their chests shaved and beards trimmed. In most of the previous attacks we have found suicide or fidayeen attackers shave their chest before embarking on suicide mission,” said a senior government functionary who was involved in the operation to neutralise them. …………………………..

Also, when Punjab Police cornered them, they were repeatedly heard raising slogans such as “Allah-hu-Akbar” and “Pakistan Zinbaad”.

“The gunmen had two global positioning system (GPS) devices to help them move towards their intended locations. Tracking of these GPS devices has clearly indicated that the terrorists came from the Pakistani side towards Pathankot, said a senior police officer.

“This is first time that terrorists after sneaking in from Pakistan in Jammu area have come towards Punjab. There is heavy police bandobast in Jammu and Kashmir due to the annual Amarnath Yatra. That might be the reason they may have come down to bordering district in Punjab,”

Origin of Mohammadden Terrorists that attacked Gurdaspur using GPS data tracked back to our Mohammadden Terrorism fomenting Western neighbor the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Gurdaspur attack: Terrorists from Pakistan crossed Ravi river

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jul 2015 09:35

http://warisacrime.org/content/flood-us ... xperts-say

the lashkars could actually be better equipped than the TSPA given the amt they have looted.

the US has also supplied stuff like NVG in bulk to TSPA for GOAT.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jul 2015 09:37

one of the pigs (middle) had his arm blown clean off...the grenade must have gone off in his hand while trying to throw it back.

there is another pic where they found his arm and put it on his body.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 29 Jul 2015 09:41

Harpal Bector wrote:
vayu tuvan wrote:Harpal Bector ji: I take it you don't want to answer my question?
I am sorry can you point me to the post. I have missed it.

You did in a post after this one. No sweat.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 29 Jul 2015 09:49

Harpal Bector wrote:What you say about uncles and aunts is true, but I still feel an opportunity to put India-Pakistan ties on a new footing was squandered.

One could attribute this to a criminal element being at play, but more likely that Shuja Pasha was quite simply put no Hamid Gul.

Boss, so in your opinion this was the first and last opportunity ISI and by extension Pakistan squandered?

If pasha is no gul, what goal is served by a nobody meeting saheb?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Jul 2015 09:50

Singha wrote:one of the pigs (middle) had his arm blown clean off...the grenade must have gone off in his hand while trying to throw it back.

there is another pic where they found his arm and put it on his body.

That would blow off his hand. The fingers are intact. I think a grenade has simply blown him to bits. I think the lower half of his body is also partially separated from the torso. Lovely images that exhilarate me and I am no psychopath. These men were murderers.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 29 Jul 2015 09:51

Arun: good link there. So they did not cross bias.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 29 Jul 2015 09:56

Hari Seldon wrote: We too should attack Pak camps and leave enough evidence to lead back to us. So what if Pak jumps up and down claiming we did it? We'll simply reject the criticism and move on to the next camp attack. Only.

Why go the extra mile? Just level one and go onto the next. If they want evidence let them dig it out. By the time they reach any definite conclusion on the first and howl to the UN and their 3.5 fathers we would have destroyed several of their camps.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 29 Jul 2015 10:05

chetak wrote:
pankajs wrote:Navroop Singh ‏@s_navroop 1h1 hour ago

Gurdaspur attack: US government marks on night-vision devices used by terrorists ---http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... errorists/ …
The paki army, thru proxies, regularly loot US govt military cargo containers transiting thru paki land on the way to afghanistan.

Saar, why are we even trying to find reasons for how American gear can get into terrorists' hands? We should release that info publicly and let foggy bottom or the pentagon figure out how to explain it. It is not India's problem that the US needs to send stuff through Pakistan or they keep giving them military aid.

By giving a free explanation, we are only ensuring that Pakistan is a problem to only us, and not anyone else. We should keep pushing the envelope and leave no stone unturned till we make them everybody's problem.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 29 Jul 2015 10:17

That selfie type group picture - can that be used to id the pigs? There is a good possibility that they could be in social media.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 29 Jul 2015 10:29

Two points to note:
1) The narcotics angle needs to be investigated thoroughly. Drug smugglers are a likely source of support for the ISI and ilk in providing logistics. And ordinary junkies, can become foot soldiers/ facilitators due to their dependance on drugs.
2) Paki's and Punjabi's abroad have been trying to rake up Khalistan again. If the government does not nip this in the bud, it portends ill-omen. I remember two years ago during a visit to Amritsar, shops in the by-lanes behind the Golden Temple were all carrying Bhindranwale merchandise. Even the BBC documentary by Sonia Deol, which I believed was biased towards Bhindranwale, was pannedby overseas Sikh's as being biased against someone who they believe was a saint. If we don't do something against this, I am afraid of a redux of the 80'2 in Punjab. Maybe time to dust off the old files on the 1984 riots and go after Sajjan Singh and ilk.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 29 Jul 2015 11:45

Singha wrote:perhaps the looming water crisis in TSP with the Indus essentially being sent to its death will hasten the formation of a vast armed kabila willing and able to launch a frontal assault on india - some 25 million perhaps armed to razakar levels to support the regular jihadis in uniform....the biggest army in the world and bigger than next 10 combined in manpower. Saif-ul-Islam.

we need to develop conventional weapons of great 'area effect' on a mass scale and make as cheap as possible to deal with the coming 'peoples war' by mid-century

we need to also up the 15 yr old single line rusted Raj and Guj border fences to J&K-Punjab levels .... it will take some time.

If we are planning, plan for defending India against a razkar type force of 100M around the year 2040. Also not to forget that this force might have innumerable drones, most of them armed

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 29 Jul 2015 12:42

>>2) Paki's and Punjabi's abroad have been trying to rake up Khalistan again. If the government does not nip this in the bud, it portends ill-omen. I remember two years ago during a visit to Amritsar, shops in the by-lanes behind the Golden Temple were all carrying Bhindranwale merchandise. Even the BBC documentary by Sonia Deol, which I believed was biased towards Bhindranwale, was pannedby overseas Sikh's as being biased against someone who they believe was a saint. If we don't do something against this, I am afraid of a redux of the 80'2 in Punjab. Maybe time to dust off the old files on the 1984 riots and go after Sajjan Singh and ilk.

Paaki's have been trying to raise Khalistan ever since Modi came to power..

Those of you who attended Modi's event in Madison square garden last year might remember an insignificant "protest" by kids dressed as Sikhs ...

I know a few sikhs born or brought up in the west. None of them support Khalistan...

To me it is counter-intuitive that they were opposing Modi , if at all they were sikhs and not Pakees in disguise..Because it is the CON party that committed atrocities against em and Modi defeated the CON party...even in 84 riots , it was Advani and Vajpayee , who stepped in and saved the Skihs ... RSS sheltered many of them from the congoon state machinery ...I tried asking one of the protestors...But obviously he did not answer...funnily most of them were teenage and hardly new anything..

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 29 Jul 2015 13:36

B4 the elections, ppl like Sub. Swamy went around openly kissing up to the Khalistanis. I mean Khalistanis, **NOT** Punjabis/Sikhs. As in deifying the sh1t Bhindranwale. Particularly disgusting considering that IG was a strong mentor of SubSwamy.

I saw some young Sikhs at such events and their grasp of 'history' was worse than that of Pakis, meaning rock-between-the-ears stupid. Buggers grown up in the US but never tried googling their own history.

But all that is digression. Let's get to the basics. AFAIK Khalistani mijjiles have heatshield intact, hain?

Here it is simply a case of Pakis being sent on soosai mission to cause as much damage as possible.
Did all 5 get pest-e-sha'eeded? I heard only 3, so where are the other two in the happy group foto?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 29 Jul 2015 14:31

So unanswered questions:
1. 5 Pakis shown chummy. Only 3 bodies. 2 unaccounted.
2. GPS shows starting location? How? Unless these were totally lettuce-brains, why equip them with sets that show the whole route afterwards? Isn't it enough to drive them to the border and then start the GPS for the destination? Even my FREE cellphone GPS does not show where you started, just how to get to the destination from current location. Maybe a DOO with several hours of diagnostic with the system may be able to backtrack the calculation but I doubt if that info is even stored. Something is very wrong with that statement. If they showed start point in shakargarh, real start point may have been in Muridke or Karachi. Maybe they showed a home base stored in the GPS, but I doubt that because these were soosai terrists, so home base would be Houristan. How many Houris are in Shakargarh?

Anyway, "Shakargarh" is hardly an origin point, it is too far from the border. Maybe they had it listed as one of their Favorite Locations. Means nothing.
3. Why all the breastbeating about PAKISTAN OPENS NEW FRONT OUTSIDE KASHMIR? "Forces India to spread its Army thin" etc. WTF did they expect? Pakistan has conducted terrorist attacks in Kolkatta, Delhi, Mumbai, Bengalooru, Gujarat. What's new about attack in Punjab?
4. Train and bus attacks showed some sort of haphazard Boys Out on A Saturday Night operational plan. Just mayhem. Attacking the police station without an exit plan showed a general Pakiness. Or the Police response trapped them? There was a whole HOUR when they could have left. Maybe 2 of the 5 did?
5. Insistence of Punjab Police may have been H&D issue, it was their comrades who got killed, it was they who had trapped the morons, so they wanted to be the ones to go in and finish them off. Waiting as long as possible made sense because (a) the morons were soosai, and (b) there may have been hope that a wounded 1 or 2 might faint, and be captured alive. No hurry. Media braying about all that is just Indian media.

6. There needs to be swift retaliation. Against BBC. No excuse for their "reporting" - humans just cannot be that stupid.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 29 Jul 2015 14:41

Don't know how much is thru-the-musharraf venting, but some useful points in this post

Modi govt's response to Gurdaspur attack: Talks with Pakistan to continue, but expect reprisal

Initial investigations into the Gurdaspur attack on Monday have claimed that the three terrorists involved in the strike had crossed over from Pakistan on the night of 26-27 July and they had more than one target after they crossed into India. But even as the evidence against Pakistan mounts, a report says that it still may not derail the impending talks between the two nations.

In an exclusive report, The Hindustan Times says: "In spite of the provocation, the Narendra Modi government is on course to engage the Pakistanis on the basis of the recent Ufa joint statement with a National Security Advisor level dialogue followed by talks between chiefs of border forces and then the heads of military operations."

The Gurdaspur attack came even as India planned to continue talks with the Pakistan government in spite of incidents of repeated ceasefire violations along the border in Jammu and Kashmir.

According to a Times of India report, Indian officials are convinced that the attacks were aimed at derailing talks between the two countries.

The report quoted unnamed officials as saying that "India believes it was part of an effort by the Pakistani military-ISI complex to get New Delhi to call off the NSA-level talks to be held in August. The meeting between Modi and Nawaz Sharif in Ufa (Russia) happened after sustained diplomatic feelers from Pakistan to the Indian government".

The attack has put India in a tight spot. The Modi government is stuck between pacifying nationalistic groups and ignoring what this latest attack was meant to do — disturb peace talks between the two countries.

The Times of India report notes that Pakistan hasn't been making things any easier for the Modi government and the attack could be a test to see how India might retaliate.

...
Terming India's policy towards Pakistan as a "failure", Togadia on Tuesday said Prime Minister Narendra Modi should put an end to the "saree, shawl" diplomacy following the Gurdaspur terror attack and exhibit a "strong will" like Indira Gandhi to deal with it.

"Diplomacy of saree, shawl and mango is enough for now. India should stop all dialogue with Pakistan and start preparing to teach a lesson to the country, which is sending AK 47-armed Jihadists for carrying out attacks," Togadia told reporters.
...
The police said that 11 unused bombs had been recovered and five of them had been defused. Three AK-47 rifles, 17 magazines, 55 cartridges, one Rocket launcher, three hand grenades, bullet proof jackets, night vision device and heap of unused bullets were recovered from the site of the encounter.

Officials have said the tracking point of one of the two GPS systems found with the terrorists showed Talwandi point, Parmanand village and Dinanagar as targets while the other system had Gurdaspur Civil Lines, implying that the areas were also targets.

But though the government may have decided to go through with talks, it has said that the Gurdaspur attack won't go unanswered, as promised by Home Minister Rajnath Singh on the day of the attack. A senior official told the Hindustan Times that while the UPA had allowed the Pakistani government to dictate terms to it, that wouldn't happen during the Modi government.

"This time every uncalled for action will have an unpredictable and disproportionate response," the official said.

(Policy departure from Befitting Reply??)

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 29 Jul 2015 14:46

Dear Harpal Bector,

I get the sense that either you have been part of the advisory chain to PM, DM etc or have some arm chair knowledge of it. Assuming its the first, I have just one thing to say 'there in lies the problem'.

If the 'advisors' of a nation reeling under overt terrorism for over 2 decades and a close to 100 k death toll still turn a blind eye to mountains of evidence; and wont do their duty (to speak to PM, DM et all) to protect their careers, then we are getting exactly what we deserve. I have personally been in CI Ops and could give you reams of evidence, and I am sure you will send a bigger dossier to the Pakis. And then what ?

Please read Gen Hasnain's recent article to get a lesson in clarity of thought. Or listen to Maroof Raza or Gen Bkashi.

Sir, what will it take to get you to advice the new 'grandmaster in Suhrawaddy street' ? Our dear brothers should not be deprived of your talents.

best regards

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 29 Jul 2015 15:04

was this terror operation to take hostages and negotiate for yakub menon (hence hastily planned and what not). It did not work that way?
The other left liberal push for life sentence is/was plan B, to get him released with some other hijacking a la Kandhar and spit on our face?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 29 Jul 2015 15:16

In that case the bombs on the track were a useless distraction. The half-hearted attack on the bus was also same. Killing patients inside a hospital was worse. This seems like PA is asking overpopulated madarssas to come with Proposals and just funding them as a way to cull the overpopulation. The only guaranteed outcome here was 3 terrorists killed (I still ask, what about other 2?). Everything else was just bonus to the PA.

So what is a proper Disproportionate Modi-fried Response? Just a death toll of terrorists is no good - you'd be doing the PA's job for them.

5 Jarnails' mansions and warehouses encounter Spontaneous Combustion? Along with pest-e-sha'eed of Jarnails-e-PA or ISI, and their ADCs? Shakargarh suddenly has no bridges or train/bus service? Two TSPN destroyers become submarines?

munna · Post by **munna** » 29 Jul 2015 16:12

Punjab policemen made frantic calls to be sent to Gurdaspur

As the reports of terror attack began pouring in on Monday, many police officials — some posted in even far-off areas — approached their higher-ups for taking part in the counter-offensive to flush out the terrorists.

Police sources say a police intelligence officer of the rank of deputy inspector general (DIG) was on a tour of Amritsar. When he was sounded about the terror attack, the DIG opted to rush to Dinanagar. This decision paid off as he planned and coordinated the offensive of special weapons and tactics (SWAT) team

“The idea behind getting the job done by our own men was to strengthen people’s faith in police and government. The state police and the government could not allow itself to be seen as fleeing the scene abdicating their own moral, political and constitutional obligation to preserve peace,” says Harcharan Bains, adviser to chief minister on national affairs and media.

The message is clear to Pak-pitthus our burly "Puls" (as Police is called in Punjab) is enough for your high funda kamandus.