Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10, 2015

[hanumadu]

So what are the places that a typical paki would live in? When somebody says how good pak is or how good the pukes are, we can suggest them to visit a typical middle class or poor neighbour hood in karachi, slumbad or lawhore and not an army tfta general's house or a pakjabi landlord's house.

[Nandu]

Of if you visit a tfta generals house, make sure you talk to some of the kids there, so they can dance around singing "hindu kutta".

[Shreeman]

There is the entire sindh, baluchistan, and FATA to visit. Big cities like biss-hour included. Frankly, if you think there are "ignorant" or "misguided" track too sekulars then you need to meet some t2 people first, in india. And see how they make their honest days wages.

Bakistani media isnt alone in being the proper-gsndu yantra. Le Indian and western mhedia are equally fit for purpose. And they need their talking heads.

[RajeshA]

Let me ask a rhetorical question but I ask in all seriousness:

I think the real problem is that "they are like us" "we are long lost brothers" are instilled in Indian minds for over three generations now. At some level when Indians go to Pakistan as tourists and get impressed by the warm welcome they receive. Of course, any tour operator or restaurant owner or travel agent would want to sell their product which is their country by trying to find something nice to say to the tourist.

Actually I don't really much disagree with "they are like us" and "we are long lost brothers", but so too were Kauravas viz-a-viz the Pandavas, and Pandavas threw all hundred of them in the fire-pit in their Dharma-Yajna!

A bali of Pakistanis is required! Perhaps after the bali, the Pakis would be even more "like us".

[schinnas]

I think the real problem is that "they are like us" "we are long lost brothers" are instilled in Indian minds for over three generations now. At some level when Indians go to Pakistan as tourists and get impressed by the warm welcome they receive. Of course, any tour operator or restaurant owner or travel agent would want to sell their product which is their country by trying to find something nice to say to the tourist.

I think Fair Didi called this "selection bias" where visitors and diplomats are selectively exposed to Pakistanis who will please them and hidden from the overall thrust and direction of Pakistani sentiment towards Hindu India

Selection bias does exist, but the problem is deeper. We, Indians have a moral dilemma. We hold that multiple - even seemingly contradictory faiths of Islam and Dharmic religions can co-exist (Ekam Sat .. yada yada) and strong believers of being inclusive. So naturally and instinctively Hindus (by extension all Indians) feel Pukistanis as misguided brothers who need to be disciplined but can be brought into the family if they reform. So any positive sign gives a hope of such a reunion that pleases the heart of an Indian.

Pukistanis on the other hand are driven by two-nation theory which is a product of a worldview that is fanatically exclusive and hence feel little need for reunion which will destroy the very theory under which that country was formed. One can even say that at an ideological level, Indians (both right and left wingers) have a need to accept Pakis as lost brothers and strive for a reunion and thereby repudiate the two nation theory. Pukistanis on the other hand, instinctively feel a need to hate Indians and

As a believer in India's role as Jagat Guru, I feel we should come up with solutions that show the way to the world. Indian freedom struggle, for example, showed the light and inspired several countries to get out of colonialism (Africa) and racial discrimination (US) using non violence which made it possible for different parties to mend fences post liberation. However, for the Pukistan problem and by extension to the problem of fanatically exclusive religious ideology I have not seen a real solution that will be befitting India's role as Jagat Guru. All the solution I see that calls for dis-integration of Pakistan (which I also fully subscribe to as the pragmatic solution) but feel that it will only be a half solution.

If and when we help Puksitan disintegrate into 4 or 5 different entities that only proves that religious exclusivist views are bound to fail. However, we cannot rest until all these 5 different regions voluntarily and harmoniously join India - only then one of the fundamental Truth that India stands for, which is acceptance of multiple means for Search for Truth (pardon my reduction here) will stand vindicated.

[SSridhar]

Nisar rejects rumours about conspiracy in army - DAWN

Which simply means the rumours are true.

Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan has rejected rumours about an in-house conspiracy in the army and said there is no room for success of such a plot within the disciplined and professional force.

Talking to reporters on Monday after inaugurating an online application system introduced by the National Database and Registration Authority (Nadra), he said it was not possible for a few officers to replace the army chief. “The army has neither been a victim of an in-house conspiracy in the past nor could it happen in the days to come,” he added.

Chaudhry Nisar dismissed as “ridiculous and baseless” the rumours suggesting that a plot had been hatched up by some army officers to replace Army Chief General Raheel Sharif during the days of PTI’s sit-in in Islamabad last year.

A PTI man, retired Brig Simon Sharaf, said in a talk-show that the party had been in contacts with the ISI during the sit-in and claimed that then ISI director general Lt Gen Zeheerul Islam, along with a few others, was supporting the protest, anticipating an action against the army chief by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif out of nervousness.

According to him, a telephonic conversation between Lt Gen Zaheerul Islam and some PTI men was played during a meeting between the prime minister and the army chief, after which Lt Gen Islam was summoned and asked by the army chief if he had asked him to do so. Lt Gen Islam replied in the negative and that was the end of the story the army chief wanted to send the Sharif government packing.

Chaudhry Nisar said the army chief enjoyed complete confidence of the government, army and people, adding that such kite-flying at the expense of the army was not appropriate.

“Instead of churning out such rumours, we should stand united with the army. We are in a state of war and our enemy is not visible,” he said, adding that such rumours against the army were against national interest and served the interests of enemies.

He said the Pakistan Army was the best fighting force in the world. Without naming the United States, he said there were armies of large countries which had to meet the fate of failure in guerrilla warfare, but the Pakistan Army was perhaps the only exception as it made remarkable achievement in guerrilla warfare.

Answering a question, the interior minister said he had been closely interacting with the army and intelligence agencies because his ministry was responsible for internal security and paramilitary forces were under it. He said the country was facing insurgency and problems of economy and security which needed focus and attention.

[Aditya_V]

This guy is stating nothing new here.

Tariq Khosa admits: 26/11 Mumbai mayhem was planned, launched from Pakistan

Shouldnt he now be Wajeb ul Kattle now

[Peregrine]

can anybody post Fair baby's latest on terrorist attack on Punjab ?

The link to that TOI blog post is not working, but I got this from my google cache:

Gurdaspur hit: India can’t afford a tepid response
August 2, 2015, 2:28 AM IST
C Christine Fair

From the moment it became apparent that Narendra Modi would become India’s Prime Minister, Pakistan has wondered how India would respond to its terrorist predations. Would it follow the path of the previous PM Manmohan Singh and tolerate Pakistan-based terrorism in hopes of avoiding any entanglement that would retard India’s economic ascent? Or, would it pursue a more hawkish policy? Earlier this week, Pakistan tested the waters when it dispatched three terrorists to Gurdaspur via the Ravi River. The attackers killed seven people, including a Punjab police SP, before being felled.

It’s not the first time Pakistan has sought to test the mettle of this government: in May 2014, before Modi had been sworn in, the Indian consulate in Herat, Afghanistan was attacked. Analysts believed the Herat attackers were either associated with Lashkar-e-Taiba, now operating as “Jamaat-ud-Dawa,” or the Haqqani network, both of which operate at the behest of Pakistan’s ISI. The next test came in March 2015 when two heavily armed militants raided a police station in J&K’s Kathua district — the first such attack after the PDP and BJP formed a coalition government in the state.

The Gurdaspur incident comes soon after Modi’s meeting with Pakistan’s Nawaz Sharif on the sidelines of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization meet in Ufa, Russia on July 10. For peaceniks, it heralded new portents for South Asian peace mongering. The mombatti-wallahs lauded the agreements, including a much-celebrated common definition of terrorism. This would be of little comfort to the victims of Gurdaspur who perished under this agreed-upon lexicon.

Such optimism was misplaced to begin with. One, even if Nawaz Sharif wants peace — a questionable assertion — he is not the Sharif that matters: Army chief Raheel Sharif is the one in charge. Pakistan’s army has no incentive to normalize relations with India; its pre-eminent hold upon the state is predicated upon an interminable civilizational war with “Hindu India”. Second, such meetings can be productive if there is some glimmer of common ground. Alas, there is little evidence of that. Pakistan wants to change the status quo through terrorism backed by nuclear proliferation while India wants to ratify the status quo and get on with the business of being a rising power.

The Gurdaspur attack should remove any doubt that Pakistan’s generals want peace with India. This attack is a clever move for several reasons. It is the first attack during the Modi government’s tenure that has taken place outside of J&K. Yet Gurdaspur, a middling city that will not capture public attention for long, does not have the provocation potential of an attack on Delhi or Mumbai. Would India risk war for Gurdaspur? However, it is almost certain that a tepid response to Gurdaspur will invite more ambitious attacks on high-value targets within India.

Gurdaspur, however, is a target laden with significance. Historically, it animates a grudge that Pakistan has nursed since Partition: namely, that Muslim majority tehsils from Gurdaspur went to India in connivance with the British to facilitate India’s acquisition of Kashmir. Of course, Pakistanis conveniently omit that these areas were likely allocated to India because of their large Sikh population. Pakistanis also fail to acknowledge that Pathankot—with a Hindu majority—would have gone to India in any event. India only needed that tehsil to dispatch troops into Kashmir via ground. Pakistan’s versions of Partition animate military, militant and popular thinking about India.

Gurdaspur is also important because it harkens back to the bloody days of Sikh militancy that got ample support from Pakistan. There is reason to believe that it seeks to reopen Punjab as a theatre of terrorism beyond Kashmir. Pakistan is anxious to persuade militants to stop fighting Pakistanis and resume the fight in India and Afghanistan. It has rejuvenated Jaish-e-Mohammad in an effort to lure fellow Deobandis from the Pakistani Taliban and back to Jaish under whose auspices they can kill in India. India’s Punjab with its rampant drug problem creates numerous opportunities for militant-criminal-trafficking collusion. So far, Pakistan has used terrorism under its nuclear umbrella because it is cheap, effective, difficult to deter and ultimately successful in fanning the international chorus for “resolving the IndoPakistan problem”.

It would behoove India to tell its international backers bluntly that there is no “India-Pakistan problem;” only a Pakistan problem. It needs to develop a suite of policies that will impose significant and escalating costs upon Pakistan, diplomatically, politically and militarily. And India’s partners should support India in its application of power rather than continually excusing Pakistan’s behaviour. Pakistan is trying to ascertain whether this Indian government is all bluster and no follow-through. Failure to respond vigorously will surely encourage further Pakistani terrorist adventurism.

jrjrao Ji and other B-RF Gurus :

Fair Didi - IMO - is a Mouth Piece of the State Department. As such can one take it that the Unreliable Phriend i.e. the USA, at least a part of the SD Corps, have finally understood Cwapistani Perfidy and are "SIGNALLING THEIR SYMPATHY AND APPROBATION" for India's Positive and Strong Response to the latest i.e. Gurdaspur attack by the Establishment - Civil, Military, Jehadi etc. - of the Land of the Pure and Home of the Terrorists?

Cheers

[Peregrine]

This guy is stating nothing new here.

Tariq Khosa admits: 26/11 Mumbai mayhem was planned, launched from Pakistan

Shouldnt he now be Wajeb ul Kattle now

Aditya_V Ji :

The Article with the following concluding line must have been officially sanctioned "Therefore, the legal experts from both sides need to sit together rather than sulk and point fingers."

Cheers

[Altair]

This is a tricky question.
Pakistan has been very active in shelling across WB,IB and LOC. It has planned and executed the attack in Gurdaspur. I believe, Pakistan is probing our maximum response barrier. US also wants to understand what would Modi Government think is optimum point at which PAK is given a resounding jhapad.I am sure China is also interested.
Now, what Modi is upto only a select few will know. Modi is like a super stealth nuclear submarine with zero signature for sonar nets. He will simply launch at a time and place of his choosing and everyone including people from our Military and Political community will be dumbfounded at the out-of-box thinking and nimble footed-ness in thrashing Pakistan. I am absolutely sure, in the near future, Pakistan will get a bloody nose for its ceasefire violations and terror attacks. Thats a given.
Now, Pakistan probably knows this and so does US and China. But still they are trying to provoke Modi. Why?

[Falijee]

I.S.I' s Strategic Mistake In Hiding Mullah Omar's Death Two Years Ago Backfires

Head of Taliban's Qatar office quits

KABUL: The head of the Taliban's Qatar-based political office has stepped down, a statement said, a high-profile resignation within leadership ranks highlighting growing discord over the movement's recent power transition.

Mullah Akhtar Mansour was announced as the new Taliban chief on Friday after the insurgents confirmed the death of Mullah [*]Omar, who led the militant movement for some 20 years.

"In order to live with a clear conscience and abide by the principles of Mullah Omar, I decided that my work as head of the political office has ended," Agha said in the statement published on a website regularly used by the Doha office and confirmed by a Taliban source.

[*]Who was pulling the strings in the intervening period

"I will not be involved in any kind of (Taliban) statements.[*].. and will not support any side in the current internal disputes within the Taliban."

[*] Manipulation backfires?

The Taliban continued to release official statements in the name of Omar, who had not been seen in public since the Taliban were toppled from power in 2001, as recently as last month.[*]

[*] Uncle should make note

The militants released a video on their website showing a large crowd of supporters pledging allegiance to Mansour in an effort to bolster support for the new leader. However, the video could not be independently verified by AFP.

Mansour on Saturday called for unity in the Taliban in his first audio message since becoming head of the group, in comments apparently aimed at staving off a splintering of the group.[*]

[*] Damage control mode?

[RamaY]

^

To prepare counter strategy. They can't operate in vacuum. U.S. Needs to know if it has to give nuke submarines or B52 bombers to Pakistan and so on...

Pakistan too need to know which core commander gets bumped off next.

[Altair]

^

To prepare counter strategy. They can't operate in vacuum. U.S. Needs to know if it has to give nuke submarines or B52 bombers to Pakistan and so on...

Pakistan too need to know which core commander gets bumped off next.

That means we cannot willfully declare our maximum response barrier. If we declare it too low, we cannot hit Pak everytime and is high maintenance. If we declare too high, they will use thousand cuts. Can we keep it variable and unpredictable? That would mean even Pak can be unpredictable in their attacks. Israel model does not work for us and is counter productive.

[Peregrine]

China’s enemy is our enemy, says Gen Raheel

General Raheel said: “Your enemy is our enemy. Eliminating the East Turkistan Independence Movement is its manifestation.

Faleejee Ji :

Wow! I believe that when the Chinese took over the East Turkmenistan Republic in October 1949 the Muslim - mainly Uyghur - Population was 90% to 95% and the Chinese then carried out a Hannization Program by settling Xinjiang with Millions upon Millions of Chinese Hans.

In the light of above I see no reason why the Cwapistanis dispute India abrogating Indian Article 370 and merging the full State of Jammu and Kashmir (including POK) with India.
Cheers

[RamaY]

^

It can work.

Easy way out for India is to declare Pakistan as its mortal enemy & work towards the destruction of the idea of Pakistan. It may result in use of few glass making equipment & few million deaths. This is the easy solution.

The difficult solution is to hitting Pakistan when it misbehaves and prolong the war over decades/centuries. Even this will require few glass making equipment & few tens of millions of lives spread over decades & centuries.

[abhijitm]

So what are the places that a typical paki would live in? When somebody says how good pak is or how good the pukes are, we can suggest them to visit a typical middle class or poor neighbour hood in karachi, slumbad or lawhore and not an army tfta general's house or a pakjabi landlord's house.

Those are motivated people. You cannot change them. You can ignore them but then you leave the field open for them. Those people should be ferociously countered and condemned. Not to win the argument because that would be pointless but to not let them have open season on bharat.

[Shreeman]

Indeed, the only solution is for the government to issue them a card. So they can become a proper card carrying wagah candle kisser, and their privileges can be checked and verified at entry/exit.

[SSridhar]

Fair Didi - IMO - is a Mouth Piece of the State Department. As such can one take it that the Unreliable Phriend i.e. the USA, at least a part of the SD Corps, have finally understood Cwapistani Perfidy and are "SIGNALLING THEIR SYMPATHY AND APPROBATION" for India's Positive and Strong Response to the latest i.e. Gurdaspur attack by the Establishment - Civil, Military, Jehadi etc. - of the Land of the Pure and Home of the Terrorists?

Peregrine ji, I do not think so. The State Department continues to support Pakistan to the hilt as can be made out from statements by its boss, Mr. Kerry. Besides, the US is completely aware of, privy to and complicit in Pakistani perfidies, especially against India. Ms. Fair may have a different agenda. But, we watch the tamasha from the sidelines as long as it lasts. I am not aware of Ms. C. Fair spending considerable periods of time in India before, like the way she used to do in Pakistan. This is probably the first time. Usually Indians, Indian officials and politicians fawn over a foreigner revealing everything, as Wikileaks proved (especially how the Chennai consulate had every sundry person eating out of its hands). Many a time one gets the feeling that foreigners are given access to information that Indians themselves are denied. I hope that the officials and others know how to keep Ms. C. Fair from intruding too much under the guise of any research that she might be doing.

[KLNMurthy]

Let me ask a rhetorical question but I ask in all seriousness:

I think the real problem is that "they are like us" "we are long lost brothers" are instilled in Indian minds for over three generations now. At some level when Indians go to Pakistan as tourists and get impressed by the warm welcome they receive. Of course, any tour operator or restaurant owner or travel agent would want to sell their product which is their country by trying to find something nice to say to the tourist.

In my experience, the warmth is real, as real as the hatred that is always lurking. The paki is a complicated and conflicted creature that way. I think, a lot of the paki irrationality, imbecility and downright insanity springs from this deep unexamined well of messed up emotions.

We Indians have an intellectual and educational deficit IMO: intellectually, we are not generally capable of handling contradictions. We say the paki is an evil Hindu-hater and leave it at that, in effect shutting our senses off from any evidence that, yes of course he is that, but also other, contradictory things as well. We may become condescending or hostile when someone presents such evidence.

The result is that a relatively uninformed Indian visiting pakistan, or meeting a paki, can experience the warmth and take that as contradiction of the notion that the paki is an evil Hindu-hater. What is more, they may further conclude that, in fact, the purveyor of the paki evilness idea is himself an evil Muslim-hater, for why else would he be saying these horrible things about these very warm and friendly pakis?

If our only response is that they are doing taqiya (a complicated second order concept that is alien to most Hindus ) or it is a setup on the part of the travel agent (there are no travel agents involved when I meet warm pakis in America) it only further convinces our Indian target that we are hateful liars, who got caught by him, and are now trying clumsily to recover.

Educationally, one big deficit (among many) is that we don't know basic psychology. Most of us don't even believe psychology is a real "thing." One consequence is that we are lousy at understanding human complexity; a secondary practical consequence is that we are usually lousy at understanding or constructing effective human communication.

We need to recognize significant deficits in ourselves and correct them. We shouldn't be engaging in flagellation of our countrymen and co-religionists, as we usually seem to do when we can't get through to them.

[Tuvaluan]

In my experience, the warmth is real, as real as the hatred that is always lurking. The paki is a complicated and conflicted creature that way. I think, a lot of the paki irrationality, imbecility and downright insanity springs from this deep unexamined well of messed up emotions.

So we get to ignore official state policy and indoctrination and buy the wagah candle wallah logic now? Why is it India's problem to play psychologist to pakistan's insanity?

Going on a guided tour of pakistan, under the watchful gaze of pakistan only provides a partial picture of whole and why such perspectives are essentially useless when it comes to analyzing pakistan. Claims like "paki warmth is real" sound utterly bogus and silly in the face of a reality of organized violence against Indians on a massive scale -- these guys are just waiting across Indian borders to create mayhem. This is not the time to put them on a psychoanalyst's couch and go around asking "you are now going into a deep sleep...now tell me about your troubled child hood."

I think this whole pretense of humans being fixable at such large scales is utterly laughable.

Educationally, one big deficit (among many) is that we don't know basic psychology. Most of us don't even believe psychology is a real "thing." One consequence is that we are lousy at understanding human complexity;

Ok, let us say we all get to understand the "human complexity" of Pakistanis, who continue to behave the same way as they are now. what then? What's the next step -- put them all on medication?

As a matter of fact, that Pakis have been psychoanalyzed a lot via this up-and-coming field of piskology started by Shivji himself, a decade or so ago. The pakis all exhibit a high level of detachment from reality given their excessive religious fervor, and the cognitive dissonance they experience when they learn from all reliable sources that islam will fix their problems, and a reality that demonstrates that the problem just gets worse -- they go around blaming everything and everyone but Islam.

Fixing that kind of psychosis in NOT the problem of Indians -- we have to defend ourselves by recognizing this mass psychosis pakis are going through. Unless we are all going to go down the road of doping the water flowing into Pakistan with hallucinogens or brain-changing chemicals.

We need to recognize significant deficits in ourselves and correct them. We shouldn't be engaging in flagellation of our countrymen and co-religionists.

Well, if the "solution" to "pakistan's psychosis" is to "recognize deficits in Indians" from the Indian standpoint, then flagellation of our countrymen and co-religionists for this silly logic seems very mild.

Unless one can show how "understanding paki psychosis" can be considered a step in the road to "fixing pakis to becoming normal", it all sound like ridiculous hot air, much like what emanates from the Indian bureaucracy on Pakistan.

[KLNMurthy]

This guy is stating nothing new here.

Tariq Khosa admits: 26/11 Mumbai mayhem was planned, launched from Pakistan

Shouldnt he now be Wajeb ul Kattle now

He is writing in English media that is read by Yindoos that don't know nustalick script. Intelligent mujahids understand the need for this.

[Shreeman]

KLNM,

Not to offend you, but just for the opinion that "warmth is real", I am inclined to award you the first national capital territory wagha candle kisser card (certificate no 786). The card is valid for 10 years from issue. An extra ration supply of 10 candles comes with card. Please contact your local ration store. You may obtain extra candles at your own expense. Transportation to wagah is not subsidised, unlike hadje. Also, any kissing must be performed in designated kissing booths, please follow all local rules and regulations. Congratulations on your elite status.

[KLNMurthy]

...

Faleejee Ji :

Wow! I believe that when the Chinese took over the East Turkmenistan Republic in October 1949 the Muslim - mainly Uyghur - Population was 90% to 95% and the Chinese then carried out a Hannization Program by settling Xinjiang with Millions upon Millions of Chinese Hans.

In the light of above I see no reason why the Cwapistanis dispute India abrogating Indian Article 370 and merging the full State of Jammu and Kashmir (including POK) with India.
Cheers

Surely you know the answer. Collie Faugh (in this case iron brother) is allowed things which are not allowed to abduls who are allowed things not allowed to coffers and mushricks.

[KLNMurthy]

In my experience, the warmth is real, as real as the hatred that is always lurking. The paki is a complicated and conflicted creature that way. I think, a lot of the paki irrationality, imbecility and downright insanity springs from this deep unexamined well of messed up emotions.

So we get to ignore official state policy and indoctrination and buy the wagah candle wallah logic now? Why is it India's problem to play psychologist to pakistan's insanity?

Going on a guided tour of pakistan, under the watchful gaze of pakistan only provides a partial picture of whole and why such perspectives are essentially useless when it comes to analyzing pakistan. Claims like "paki warmth is real" sound utterly bogus and silly in the face of a reality of organized violence against Indians on a massive scale -- these guys are just waiting across Indian borders to create mayhem. This is not the time to put them on a psychoanalyst's couch and go around asking "you are now going into a deep sleep...now tell me about your troubled child hood."

I think this whole pretense of humans being fixable at such large scales is utterly laughable.

Educationally, one big deficit (among many) is that we don't know basic psychology. Most of us don't even believe psychology is a real "thing." One consequence is that we are lousy at understanding human complexity;

Ok, let us say we all get to understand the "human complexity" of Pakistanis, who continue to behave the same way as they are now. what then? What's the next step -- put them all on medication?

As a matter of fact, that Pakis have been psychoanalyzed a lot via this up-and-coming field of piskology started by Shivji himself, a decade or so ago. The pakis all exhibit a high level of detachment from reality given their excessive religious fervor, and the cognitive dissonance they experience when they learn from all reliable sources that islam will fix their problems, and a reality that demonstrates that the problem just gets worse -- they go around blaming everything and everyone but Islam.

Fixing that kind of psychosis in NOT the problem of Indians -- we have to defend ourselves by recognizing this mass psychosis pakis are going through. Unless we are all going to go down the road of doping the water flowing into Pakistan with hallucinogens or brain-changing chemicals.

We need to recognize significant deficits in ourselves and correct them. We shouldn't be engaging in flagellation of our countrymen and co-religionists.

Well, if the "solution" to "pakistan's psychosis" is to "recognize deficits in Indians" from the Indian standpoint, then flagellation of our countrymen and co-religionists for this silly logic seems very mild.

Unless one can show how "understanding paki psychosis" can be considered a step in the road to "fixing pakis to becoming normal", it all sound like ridiculous hot air, much like what emanates from the Indian bureaucracy on Pakistan.

The issue at hand is to reach Indians who don't understand what pakis are. Better understanding of pakis and ourselves can make us more intelligent and effective in that task.

You are offended and angry at this, why?

[Tuvaluan]

The issue at hand is to reach Indians who don't understand what pakis are. Better understanding of pakis and ourselves can make us more intelligent and effective in that task.

Just find this notion that analying the pakis any more than has already been done hereabouts is an exercise in diminishing returns, especially if the intention is to have the Indian public understand what they are facing. Specifically, notions of psychologically fixing pakis at a large scale is simply not achievable, and are essentially useless in terms of achieving the goal of fixing India's pakistan problem.

"Pakis are lovely and warm people who are pretty complex" is the wrong way to view the pakis, especially if the intention is to educate Indians on what their motivations and where they are coming from mentally. India has to deal with the mentality is that is statistically significant in pakistan, not the odd person or two who is reasonable, as there would be in every crowd. It is the mentality that is statistically significant in the pakistani polity combined with the mentality of those who have the power to mess with pakistan (but not to "fix" pakistan) that matters as far as Indians are concerned.

If the goal is self-preservation via educating the Indian public, then looking at the deficiencies of the Indian public is not relevant. I am sure the Indian public can make up their own minds if Indian officialdom bothered to reveal the truth about Pakistan without trying to play the role of "protective guardian" with the Indian public. That is not their role to play -- they cannot pretend that lying to the Indian public is in the interest of the Indian public, or that Indian public is "well aware" (if so, why is the public discussion on pakistan so detached from reality) or that the public should just go around educating itself.

Officialdom can educate the public with the facts a lot better than citizens groups that will not have the same level of credibility with the average citizen.

[salaam]

Cross-posting from 'Gurdaspur Terrorist Strike' thread.

Gurdaspur Coverage as by 'Shahid Masood' is as follows. Do keep in mind that this guy is a foul mouthed spokesperson for ISI and thus for the 'Pakistani Establishment' stationed at GHQ, Pindi. His regular guests are 'Hamid Gul', 'Zulfiqar Mirza', 'Faisal Raza Abidi' and 'Sheik Rasheed Ahmed'.

27 July: http://youtu.be/DEwatZ3dPeo?t=60s watch till 8m (total run of 7 mins)
- Starts with his own 'June' clip wherein he warned that 'Punjab Terror' movement is picking up again. This is in line with Pak prop up of 'Punjab Terror' during Modi rallies in US and Canada as well as other actions of re-ignition.
- Uses word 'bhonda' (stupid) act to describe what he claims is an Indian Intelligence planned operation. Multiple usage of word 'nikhato' (useless) and 'bevkook' (idiot) to describe Indian Intelligence and South Block.
- According to him Bharat has lost the game in Afghanistan and thus are attacking its own population to blame Pakistan.

28 July: http://youtu.be/1_eyI6OWF00?t=45s watch till 14m:30s (total run of 13.75 mins)
- For this days episode he has further briefing and is attacking Doval outright. Calls Doval idiot and says that Doval has gone crazy due to Afghanistan talks success. Implies that Doval is ugly.
- Says that since Doval is not fit for planning he should take advice from Pakistani Peons. According to him Pakistani Peons/Cloth-washers/'Bhangi' are more intelligent and better planners then Doval.
- Reaffirms Pakistans love for Sikhs and calls them brothers. Masood is very worried that Indian Government may harm Sikhs due to this terror incident. Further he states, it is nice that the MMS is out now other-wise what would have happened to him, as MMS is Sikh too.

29 July: http://youtu.be/z74Bdi3u5UI?t=11s watch till 2m (total run of 2 mins)
- Starts with attacking Doval, calling him Idiot and duffer. Says that Masood's news is not going to derail the Afghan '2+2+1' (Afghan/Taliban+US/China+Pakistan) talk.
- Worried that Doval might call a suicide strike on himself due to loss of mental balance.

30 July: http://youtu.be/99D0HWP9U2A?t=45s watch till 3m (total run of 2.25 mins)
- Worried about Indian movie trailer which is propagating 'Kaante se Kaanta nikalenge’.
- Implicitly warning India about an upcoming war by quoting some US newspaper saying that India/Pakistan are close to a war after a long time.
- Further discussion of Afghan peace process after 3 min till 20 min, ends with a warning that if Afghan peace process is interrupted by India then US/China will not take it lying down.

31 July: Search for 'Shahid Masood 31 July'
- Talk of Jalaludin Haqqani news disclosure. Discussion on India’s profit/loss due to the same, makes it clear that India won’t gain anything.
- Shows proposed map of IS which include whole of middle-east and parts of India and China.

1 Aug: Search for 'Shahid Masood 1 August'
- Again talk of IS map and stress of India's inclusion in it.
- Discuss of USA Today article of proposed IS attack on India.
- Talks of Raman's article on Yakub.
- Chota Shakeel's warning clip is shown.
- Says that India is now all in trouble due to Kashmir Terror, Punjab supposed terror, IS terror and D-Comany.

3 Aug: Search for 'Shahid Masood 3 August' – late in episode
- Picks up an Indian paper which quoted him calling Doval names. Says he is sorry for hurting the sentiments of Cloth-washers/Peon’s for comparing with Doval.

PS: Kindly note that 'Najam Sethi' has not mentioned 'Gurdaspur Terrorist Strike' at all in his program 'Aapas ki Baat' which was aired on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

[Gagan]

X post
So about the trucking thing.
Those trucks supply both Pakistan and afghanistan.
The pakistanis don't want to allow Indian trucks to travel to Afghanistan. They want their trucks to do this amd make jazia.
Guess who all benefit from this?
People like Harami Gul, who has his own trucking business. He and the other jihadis raised a lot of ruckus to prevent MFN, transit rights to afg, so that they could benefit.

There is a 400% likelihood of haramigiri by them, as witnessed with their gameplaying with the americans. So the parallel access via Iran.

Pakistan doesn't produce much as it is, what will they export to Afghanistan hainji?

[Gus]

Fair Didi - IMO - is a Mouth Piece of the State Department..

doubt that. cfair's makes it a point in almost every speech how SD is wrong about how it handles pak. she has said many times she is not welcome at the SD because she does not get with the program on how SD wants to handle pak and what language SD puts out.

[shiv]

We Indians have an intellectual and educational deficit IMO: intellectually, we are not generally capable of handling contradictions. We say the paki is an evil Hindu-hater and leave it at that, in effect shutting our senses off from any evidence that, yes of course he is that, but also other, contradictory things as well. We may become condescending or hostile when someone presents such evidence.

There is no doubt that Indians find some contradictions hard to handle. But the deficit is not, in my view as you say it. It is a little more complex.

Indians have an overlay of - what word should I use here - for want of a better word I will say Indians - esp Hindus have an overlay of "shame" imposed on their minds that was pasted on after the British interacted with us. I suspect it was not originally present with Muslims. I will try and explain this.

In general a lot of Hindus are disgusted and horrified by the idea of slaughtering and cooking meat and ideas like eating off the same plate or sharing utensils. But we have been forced to hide our feelings and pretend that we find all this quite a-OK. As a convenient side issue - the fact is that a lot of people in the west too, meat eaters by birth are not gung ho about butchering and are quite, happy to use the sanitized supermarket meats that can be bought like potatoes. This makes it easier for hindus to pretend that they are not what they are .

Hindu interactions with people are fine in face to face company. Hindus will accept oddball forms of belief and mass lifting of bum skywards as normal. But the dietary habits suck and too many "modern, secular" Hindus either pretend or work very hard to appear unconcerned. Hindus try to be "broad minded" and accept animal butchering, cow slaughter and open display of dead meat on the hook but these things are actually nowhere near Hindu culture by and large.

That apart Hindus have been battered into thinking that it is evil to worship idols and that they are casteist. Without going into detail about caste and class - you go to a Muslim wedding you will be eating off the same plate with almost anyone but they will all be of the same sex because the men and women are segregated. This stuff is alien to us but protesting causes people to hit out at Hindus and say they are bad. So Hindus tend to be on the defensive and are constantly doing a form of "taqiya" or pretence in order to appear secular. When Hindus openly speak of their culture - it is called "Hindutva" and right wing extremism.

In the same way Pakis are pretending fraanship, while they preach hatred. But when Hindus point out differences in culture and belief it is called "Hindutva extremism" and when Muslims or Christians speak of their love of Mutton or brain curry, Hindus need to smile and nod in order to avoid the willy nilly tearing of our secular fabric asunder.

When Hindus drop the pretence and point out what they find offensive about Pakis - it becomes Hindu extremism. When Pakis use Islam to criticise Hindus - secularism demands that we accept it.I must point out here that in general, in the more civilized parts of India, I have found Hindus and Muslims very sensitive to each others sensibilities and actively try not to offend or horrify - which leads to ghettoization to some extent.

Pakistan provokes all the contradictions by deliberately pushing the differences and claiming that any Hindu protest is anti-Islam

[KLNMurthy]

KLNM,

Not to offend you, but just for the opinion that "warmth is real", I am inclined to award you the first national capital territory wagha candle kisser card (certificate no 786). The card is valid for 10 years from issue. An extra ration supply of 10 candles comes with card. Please contact your local ration store. You may obtain extra candles at your own expense. Transportation to wagah is not subsidised, unlike hadje. Also, any kissing must be performed in designated kissing booths, please follow all local rules and regulations. Congratulations on your elite status.

Seriously, it is irrelevant to my purpose whether or not you choose to insult me rather than make a good-faith effort to understand and debate my point. I'll be presumptuous and add, just as irrelevant as America's insult to Modi is, for Modi's larger purpose.

It is a point that needs to be made, if we are to get anywhere near developing an accurate understanding of pakistan on the part of the Indian people. We can't base the message on inaccurate observations that come across as flimsy falsehoods.

If you would trouble yourself to read what I have written, you might catch the underlying subtext that the Indian mind has a hard time handling challenges to the received verities it holds so dear. Sadly, the knee-jerk responses to my post have only been in vivo vindications of this theory.

Once I'm done sobbing in my corner at the crushing zinger you launched, I'll continue to favor the forum with my considered opinions and superior (why not? I am as Indian and Hindu as any of you, maybe even a bit more) knowledge and insights.

Take it easy, shreeman Shreeman.

[Gagan]

Very nice post Salaam
This Sahid Masood character is supposedly a doctor. Dunno what kind of doctor he is, but apparently not a successful one, one can safely assume

It must be difficult following ISI directions from some Major saab, and spewing vitriol on India

It would seem that the Pakistani establishment missess the days where they could throw a tantrum (terror strike), and the Congress I would promptly dispatch MSA to pacify them, and give in to more demands.

They are miffed because Ajit Doval knows them inside out, knows their BENIS stories and now as NSA has all their officer/jihadi files to pore over pictures of their shenegians, they are afraid that information about their families is also in the files that the Indian security establishment has access to.

This is the fear filled outburst of people who are very scared these days

[Gagan]

Yes I've seen Shahid Masood overstepping the boundaries of decency many times.
I guess he's displaying his upbringing and his Pakistaniyat.

He's called PM modi a tea seller many times and made many crude rustic references to him.

I think the story is that he tried to get a one on one interview with PM modi right after him assuming office, but was very crudely dismissed by the Indians.

He's got a sort of a mini personal vendetta, and now with this behaviour he is effectively persona non grata in India

[Falijee]

Indian woman sends 'Rakhi' to Bilawal

Now Bilawal, alongwith MQM Supremo, joins the rank of RAA agents

[RamaY]

Real problem with Indians is that the very Hindus who are afraid/hesitant of calling Muslim/Christian social problems as sins of Islam/Christianity whole heartedly and blatantly call even small Hindu social problems as sins of Hinduism. They stand under the shade of secularism.

Once we remove those secular glasses, we will know the real problem with Pakistan & find right solutions to it.

[salaam]

He's called PM modi a tea seller many times and made many crude rustic references to him.

He's got a sort of a mini personal vendetta, and now with this behaviour he is effectively persona non grata in India

He may call Modi/Doval whatever pleases his audience in Pakistan. That just shows level of thinking in 'Grand Master' controlled 'Establishment'. Its our window into their mindset.

I think the story is that he tried to get a one on one interview with PM modi right after him assuming office, but was very crudely dismissed by the Indians.

I have no idea what happened on Indian side, but according to him he tried to secure an interview during MMS tenure and was blocked with a blanket 'No Pakistani reporter may interview higher level Indian leadership'. Thereafter he decided to never visit India.
* Take the above with a grain of salt, as this is what I remember from one of his program.

[Peregrine]

Indian woman sends 'Rakhi' to Bilawal

Now Bilawal, alongwith MQM Supremo, joins the rank of RAA agents

Falijee Ji :

Hina Lata has now made Billy Boy want to become a B--n C--d.

Cheers

[KLNMurthy]

shiv:

Indeed, I too think Hindus are trapped in a web of shame, which makes them easy to manipulate for forces that feel threatened by the idea of Hindus free to realize their worth and potential.

That same web of shame stunts their natural intellectual and emotional growth and makes it difficult for them to break out of the trap to debate ideas respectfully and with an open mind, that is to say, in a healthy and normal way. When one feels the avenues to a normal expression of one's thoughts, feelings and concerns are shut down, it may be that one has no resort other than petty vanity, preoccupation with status, and abuse of others, so as to be able to feel like one's existence too, has a meaning, beyond just getting high marks or making money.

While the cases are not the same, american blacks also share the Hindus' history of being subject to abnegation and shame. Generally, Hindus join with whites in looking down on american blacks and don't believe that the black experience has anything to teach them. Nevertheless, there is a wealth of applicable material in psychology, sociology,and literature pertaining to understanding the crippling consequences of imposed abnegation/ shame and ways of transcending them.

[ramana]

Oh please give this pisko play a rest.

Thanks,

ramana

[KLNMurthy]

Cross-posting from 'Gurdaspur Terrorist Strike' thread.

Gurdaspur Coverage as by 'Shahid Masood' is as follows. Do keep in mind that this guy is a foul mouthed spokesperson for ISI and thus for the 'Pakistani Establishment' stationed at GHQ, Pindi. His regular guests are 'Hamid Gul', 'Zulfiqar Mirza', 'Faisal Raza Abidi' and 'Sheik Rasheed Ahmed'.

27 July: http://youtu.be/DEwatZ3dPeo?t=60s watch till 8m (total run of 7 mins)
- Starts with his own 'June' clip wherein he warned that 'Punjab Terror' movement is picking up again. This is in line with Pak prop up of 'Punjab Terror' during Modi rallies in US and Canada as well as other actions of re-ignition.
- Uses word 'bhonda' (stupid) act to describe what he claims is an Indian Intelligence planned operation. Multiple usage of word 'nikhato' (useless) and 'bevkook' (idiot) to describe Indian Intelligence and South Block.
- According to him Bharat has lost the game in Afghanistan and thus are attacking its own population to blame Pakistan.

28 July: http://youtu.be/1_eyI6OWF00?t=45s watch till 14m:30s (total run of 13.75 mins)
- For this days episode he has further briefing and is attacking Doval outright. Calls Doval idiot and says that Doval has gone crazy due to Afghanistan talks success. Implies that Doval is ugly.
- Says that since Doval is not fit for planning he should take advice from Pakistani Peons. According to him Pakistani Peons/Cloth-washers/'Bhangi' are more intelligent and better planners then Doval.
- Reaffirms Pakistans love for Sikhs and calls them brothers. Masood is very worried that Indian Government may harm Sikhs due to this terror incident. Further he states, it is nice that the MMS is out now other-wise what would have happened to him, as MMS is Sikh too.

29 July: http://youtu.be/z74Bdi3u5UI?t=11s watch till 2m (total run of 2 mins)
- Starts with attacking Doval, calling him Idiot and duffer. Says that Masood's news is not going to derail the Afghan '2+2+1' (Afghan/Taliban+US/China+Pakistan) talk.
- Worried that Doval might call a suicide strike on himself due to loss of mental balance.

30 July: http://youtu.be/99D0HWP9U2A?t=45s watch till 3m (total run of 2.25 mins)
- Worried about Indian movie trailer which is propagating 'Kaante se Kaanta nikalenge’.
- Implicitly warning India about an upcoming war by quoting some US newspaper saying that India/Pakistan are close to a war after a long time.
- Further discussion of Afghan peace process after 3 min till 20 min, ends with a warning that if Afghan peace process is interrupted by India then US/China will not take it lying down.

31 July: Search for 'Shahid Masood 31 July'
- Talk of Jalaludin Haqqani news disclosure. Discussion on India’s profit/loss due to the same, makes it clear that India won’t gain anything.
- Shows proposed map of IS which include whole of middle-east and parts of India and China.

1 Aug: Search for 'Shahid Masood 1 August'
- Again talk of IS map and stress of India's inclusion in it.
- Discuss of USA Today article of proposed IS attack on India.
- Talks of Raman's article on Yakub.
- Chota Shakeel's warning clip is shown.
- Says that India is now all in trouble due to Kashmir Terror, Punjab supposed terror, IS terror and D-Comany.

3 Aug: Search for 'Shahid Masood 3 August' – late in episode
- Picks up an Indian paper which quoted him calling Doval names. Says he is sorry for hurting the sentiments of Cloth-washers/Peon’s for comparing with Doval.

PS: Kindly note that 'Najam Sethi' has not mentioned 'Gurdaspur Terrorist Strike' at all in his program 'Aapas ki Baat' which was aired on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

That took a lot of patience and lot of work. And saves the same for others. Thank you.

[KLNMurthy]

Oh please give this pisko play a rest.

Thanks,

ramana

May I ask why? Is there a forum policy to exclude or limit consideration of psychological aspects relating to pakistan?