Bharat Rakshak Celebrates Seven Years!

RajeshG · Post by **RajeshG** » 02 Jul 2004 00:28

Congrats BR - great work people..

One little enhancement would be from "Today's Active Topics" page for each thread provide link to atleast the last page. Have to go to first page and then to last. More icons..

Methinks Harshavardhan's pic on page1 will soon end up on "July Babes" page of TOI ..

Saurav · Post by **Saurav** » 02 Jul 2004 00:33

Congrats to BR!!

Fascinated by the forces

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 02 Jul 2004 01:19

Happy B'day BR!! The only way for it in the future is up!. (It may lead due marital discord for some though - The future biggest cause for divorces in India

)

Bhrigu · Post by **Bhrigu** » 02 Jul 2004 02:16

Congrats to all the founders and people that are keeping the flame alive. been hooked on for three years now. The true worth of the forum was apparent to me when it went down for a couple of days. frantic emails to fellow BR members as to what happened. Those two days showed what withdrawal symptoms mean.

Long live BR.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 02 Jul 2004 02:25

Happy Birthday to BR!!!

In case y'all haven't figured it out yet, we plan to rule the world one day.

Guys, you remember the days when the forum had a black background with red/yellow text... God that was cheesy, but still I miss it...

SureshP · Post by **SureshP** » 02 Jul 2004 03:26

Congratulations. Many happy returns and may it prosper in the decades ahead.

My introduction was after 9/11 when I fondly hoped that a country not far from India would finally get its just deserts. How wrong I was.

I am concerned about the dated look and feel of BR. Is there no later version of Ultimate Bulletin Board ????????????

I have been annoyed too by the search facility which can find the thread but not the actual post, so I often have to plough through 9 pages before hitting the right post.

Bring us into the 21st centuary please.

Rajesh_MR · Post by **Rajesh_MR** » 02 Jul 2004 03:57

Happy B'day to BR.

Thanks much to all the people behind this great effort. :wah: :wah:

Roop · Post by **Roop** » 02 Jul 2004 04:25

Congratulations to BR and to the hard work of those who keep it going.

Kuttan · Post by **Kuttan** » 02 Jul 2004 04:58

We have come a long way in debating skills, fact collection, and general "effectiveness".

George J · Post by **George J** » 02 Jul 2004 05:45

Originally posted by narayanan:
We have come a long way in debating skills, fact collection, and general "effectiveness".

True. BUT even on BR's 70th anniversary you will still be indulging in your hot air...err i mean acoustic shaping

once again...wadi kodtu adi medikyana ....

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 02 Jul 2004 07:00

A very happy birthday to BR and all the best for the future.

The Forum and the Monitor are in my view the icing on an excellent BR cake.

Many thanks to the founders, the admins who do a thankless but very important job and all the participants.

Kuttan · Post by **Kuttan** » 02 Jul 2004 07:02

Georgeji, from above it appears that u r now waxing nostalgic about the HICCUP Forum??

With or w/o Cooking Thread?

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 02 Jul 2004 12:02

The demand for the Hiccup forum seems to be on the lines of chosing between the punishment of 100 Onions or 100 Lashes. First we had teh forum, then we regretted it, then we took off the forum, now again regretting it, now we are trying to bring back the forum....

Manne · Post by **Manne** » 02 Jul 2004 13:17

Originally posted by Jagan:
The demand for the Hiccup forum seems to be on the lines of chosing between the punishment of 100 Onions or 100 Lashes. First we had teh forum, then we regretted it, then we took off the forum, now again regretting it, now we are trying to bring back the forum....

Admin disposes, member proposes. :whine:

pran · Post by **pran** » 02 Jul 2004 15:45

BR : This is where I found my bearings and a real eye opener. Congratulations to the founders and the participants.

I have observed that we do not have any thread which deals with Indo-Russia relations and no Russian participants.

Calvin · Post by **Calvin** » 02 Jul 2004 16:35

Folks: BR has been as rewarding to post as to contribute to. There are a couple of things we might wish to ponder as we look to the future:

1. BRM - Print Version: The world is going electronic, perhaps we don't need a print version. Members can always print out the issue and hand it to those folks stuck in the 20th century.

2. Contributors: We have probably the best editorial team in the world, on the forum. If anyone wishes to contribute anything to BRM or the website itself, posting it on the forum will provide tonnes of useful recommendations to polish the article into a gem. We need more BRF-ers to take the plunge into writing articles for BRM, or op/eds.

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 02 Jul 2004 17:50

Congratulations!
Respect to seven years of jingo pride!

Debal · Post by **Debal** » 02 Jul 2004 18:02

Happy B'day BR! :wah:

Brilliant effort of some people.
Carry On! Just try to involve more new people in discussions.

With Regards.

Debal

Leonard · Post by **Leonard** » 02 Jul 2004 18:14

Congratulations and Happy B'Day BRites ...

Sumant · Post by **Sumant** » 02 Jul 2004 21:48

I have been a member since early 99 though I was late in _discovering_ the forum. It has been a great learning experience from the exciting debates between N3 and Kaushik to the RM genre. Way to go everyone.
A special thanks to the admins, who give their time to make BR what it is today.
Cheerio
Jeevet Sharadah Shatam

sudipn · Post by **sudipn** » 02 Jul 2004 22:32

I used to be a RA at SAMEER if any one knows what that is. It was then in 1999 that i first came across BR... I was amazed.. the discussions were just terrific ....but it was only after about 4 years of just silent reading that I could muster enough courage to actually post something on this site.
What struck me about this site was the technical compitance of people posting on it... It was not just another site where if u shout and curse the loudest, you are heard ...
I hope BR continues to grow not only in numbers but also on the impact it has on several silent/casual readers it has who look at it with "Devotion" if i might be allowed to call it that.

Once again A Verry happy birthday to BR and a pat on the back of all the admins and al the well wishers who made this site what it is today...

Sudip

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Jul 2004 22:41

Happy Seventh Anniversary of the founding of Bharat Rakshak.com. As some have noted the elements that constitute BR had an earlier beginning.

Some members have been wishing happy birthday implying BR were a living breathing entity. I feel that is some ways off in the future.

Currently it is a purely voluntary effort of a handful of individuals who work tirelessly to bring us the BR environment. One loses count of the number of servers that were changed in the past seven years. Despite these shortcomings BR provides the best environment to discuss India and its security concerns without indulging in polemics. It provides the best one stop resource for information on Indian armed forces and is getting requests to utilize the pictures and content. Off course there are some who use it without permission!

From past conversations the Internet traffic appears to follow the Pareto principle - 80 percent of the traffic is for the Forum while the rest is for the content. Storage resources on the other hand follow an inverse pattern with 80 percent for the content and the rest for the forum. This indicates the members have a lot to discuss and by providing a platform for the discourse BRF serves very well.
In the beginning there was only one forum for security issues. However members wanted more areas to be covered- political, economic and cultural. Due to the antics of some posters (I wont characterize them as members) there were regular disruptions and the demands on the admins became stressful. The path of least resistance was chosen after much discussion and eliminating political and cultural topics reduced the terms of reference. In a sense this has stultified the HICAF forum but unless there is more self-restraint or membership referral / verification process to discourage roving interrupters, it is difficult to envisage a return of those topics.
About having a print edition of BRM it maybe feasible to have html and pdf versions of the articles for ease of distribution. Print editions are expensive and the independence of BRM would be beholden to resource providers.
Where would I like to see BR on its tenth anniversary?
I would like it to become stable and viable entity that does not require so much voluntary effort. One option would be to get it incorporated as a 501(c) entity to which generous individuals can contribute. One drawback of incorporating abroad would be it raises suspicion in India about its sources of funding and motivation. If to allay these fears it were to be incorporated if India it would raise suspicions abroad about its backers. So maybe this is a vexing issue and in the glorious Indian tradition this near death voluntary organization is the best option.
The news threads are still at the mercy of random acts of kindness of the members who post regularly and we should thank them. I wonder if a google script can be written to make the task easier of trawling for news items of interest and get it posted in the news threads. We could then have a forum only for news threads. This could be a valuable online resource in future.
Some members utilize the Forum to develop their writing skills and are gaining recognition. I would in the next three years see more of them quoted nationally and even syndicated. I urge more members to participate more effectively by contributing more rather than less and not rise to flame baits that detract from the primary focus of BR- Bharat.

Once again Happy Anniversary and more power to your elbow!!!!

Kumar · Post by **Kumar** » 02 Jul 2004 22:47

I can't forget the time at BR after the 1998 tests, during the Kargil and when the Agni was first tested. We have gone through many exhilirating and frustrating times together. Security environment for India has improved in many ways since BR has been around. The worries, frustrtions of years past have slowly given way in large measure to a more confident outlook. I still remember the charm of the single page single forum format, where people used to start threads with abandon on military, strategy, politics, news, history etc. etc. without the rejoindrs of IBTL!

Thanks everyone for a great forum.

BR-eva Jayate !! pronounced as Brave Jayate'

Kumar · Post by **Kumar** » 02 Jul 2004 22:57

Regarding BRM, its format is much like a printed journal/magazine. This format is good for serious articles which could be referred to in future as one would refer toa journal article.

But a more web-friendly format could be the approach taken by many sites that keep on adding articles continuously without having certain fixed publising dates (e.g. Sulekha, Rediff etc). Articles could be refreed to in future by date stamp and keywords etc, but not as a journal article with volume no etc. I find myself habitually going to susch sites to see whether there have been any updates or not, as opposed to sites for magazines such as BRM where I go only when a new issue appears.

George J · Post by **George J** » 02 Jul 2004 23:13

You can be perato optimal and still have perfectly disgusting situation-Amartya Sen

I think the essence of BR is the website, followed by BRM, BRF is rightly at the bottem of the totem pole (although its the most fun part for most of us). We should always be mindful of that.

The essence of BR is its voluteerism from Indians from across the world. This purely voluntary nature of BR seems to be a viable paradigme thus far. Whenever the BR oligarchy has asked jingos for help (except when it comes to conjuring our favorite bunny rabbit and monkey trap theories) it has always been forthcoming. I dont see this disappearing anytime soon.

Another integral aspect of the BR is the BR meets via the meets it establishes a corp of afficionados who are interested in BR (with varying degrees). So in effect BR has a very large support base who collectively can put forth a lot of resources even though individually the resources may be meager.

Also BRM is not everybody's cup of tea. Its an excellent effort and MUST be continued but sometimes i feel that it does NOT offer a perspective that cannot be gleaned from other commercial/governmental information sources. But thats just me. The other issue is if BRM starts taking positions in an effort to gain perspective it will start critquing or endorsing current policies and practices. I donno if thats a good thing or bad thing. But right now that thought gives me the heebie-jeebies.

Nikhil Shah · Post by **Nikhil Shah** » 03 Jul 2004 01:29

I was waiting for posts like Ramana's and GJ's to post my two cents worth.

GJ has identified is quite correctly. The essence of BR is its volunteership and member's untiring effort to keep it live. BR was once a source for discussions on BRF and BRM a vehical for publishing our thoughts. Now BRF feeds BR. Few months ago we tried to tie BRF and BRM using Janata Ki Aawaz articles where knowledgeable BRites would comments on agendas, plans, articles and ideas. We have every so often been able to find topics fit for JKA article. We need more participation for JKA to appear regularly. That means that members shouldn't wait for Bradmins to open a thread on it. Just open one, designate it as JKA and enforce the rules strictly. There *can* be multiple JKA at any given time. Not all of them may make it on BRM but it will definitly build in all of us a decipline to comment on issues rather than vent. There is a lot of knowledge on this board, more than some departments of prestigious colleges and universities. Why let it go waste?

Please give this a thought.

Happy Birthday to the spirit of BR.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Jul 2004 01:51

Originally posted by George J:
The other issue is if BRM starts taking positions in an effort to gain perspective it will start critquing or endorsing current policies and practices. I donno if thats a good thing or bad thing.

You make a good point, but not necessarily. The admins respected & stood by the previous NDA Govt, and we respect and stand by the current UPA Govt as well. You can still critique and be neutral. It is alright to critique a certain political view, without having to endorse another party's view. But we have to call a spade a spade. When something goes wrong, no matter which party is in power, you can certainly criticize the govt or policy that led to the mess. Just like the armed forces, Bharat Rakshak is apolitical. I quote from BRM's mission statement, "The MONITOR aims to provide a non-specialist audience with a centrist perspective on issues of importance to India's security." I think it was Rupak who formed that sentence and it fits BRM and even the whole of BR like a glove. If the glove don't fit, you can't commit

Samir · Post by **Samir** » 03 Jul 2004 02:56

Sorry, couldn't resist:

BRadmins = Brahmins + Bradman?

Shishir · Post by **Shishir** » 03 Jul 2004 03:09

Congratulations and well done..BR has well and truly laid the foundations for the next generation(s) of "Bharat Rakshaks".

Thanks to all and Jai Hind

Sri Kumar · Post by **Sri Kumar** » 03 Jul 2004 04:34

Happy 7th to BR.

Great forum this is. One reason for its success is the work that moderators/admins do. Otherwise this forum would degenerate into a free-for-all that some may recall seeing on the soc.c.i.

This is not a simple task at all seeing that (IMHO) it is the debates, critiques and dissenting opinions that makes BR a forum with substance. I find the opinions of people like Jhumrao and .... y'all gonna shoot me for this.... Rahul Mehta (!) as interesting and refreshing as those of the regular posters like Dr. Shiv and others. Technically savvy posters (Nitin etc.) are also great to read.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Jul 2004 05:55

Let me add to what some others have said.

BRM requires quality contributions for it to keep going. The current editors have raised the level of BRM - but it is difficult to keep that up unless there are quality contributions.

Off the topic of BRM but not unrelated to it is another topic.

It is my personal belief that BRF has become a small, but not totally insignificant think-tank. It has not gone that way deliberately - but seems to have gone there by default. A lot of time can be spent on trying to define what a think tank is, and what it should be and what it does.

But it seems to me that BRF has a tendency to accumulate people whose thoughts and opinions are generally in resonance with each other, and serves as a point where individual thoughts and doubts are confirmed and amplified by finding others with similar thoughts.

Under the circumstances I think it perhaps may not be too big a step up to become a proper think tank, but that would require serious, referenced and thoughtful contributions and a willingness to have those contributions rejected by an editorial board while retaining the right to get those contributions published eleswhere.

The topics can be anything really - I expect that an idea for a contribution can come from any of the individual threads on these forums.

JMT

Sohum · Post by **Sohum** » 03 Jul 2004 06:15

The future for BR would be to grow into print medium. Maybe an international BR meet wouldn't be out of the question either? I had also one time thought of starting a BR chapter at my college (we have many Indian students). Just some suggestions...

BTW Happy B-day!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 03 Jul 2004 06:19

Originally posted by Sohum Desai:
I had also one time thought of starting a BR chapter at my college (we have many Indian students). Just some suggestions...
!

THis is a good suggestion esp the tech forum.
Lot of people are interested.
Everybody's alumni can be initiated with a link to their college website!

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 03 Jul 2004 08:24

Another Suggestion (suggestions are free - apart from the time it takes to type this up).The light bulb says it all.

This suggestion will attempt two issues at hand
1. The lack of good indivdual /personal websites
2. For people who want to be a part of for BR but cannot be more than BRF-ites.

BR has pretty much killed the 'Individual / Personal Website' in the Indian Context to a large extent. The only new websites that are coming up are official govt ones. Not too many individuals are brinnging out specialist websites or even general websites. In most cases all indiv websites have just images and then taken from BR.

Is there something BR can do to encourage proliferation of Defence Websites by Indians on the net? at the same time assuring that these sites are qualitative and cover new topics or existing topics in greater detail?

I believe we can take a dual approach. Why doesn't BR give some 'Webmaster award' or a 'BR approved' logo/symbol for those who build quality websites? The incentive the individual will get is increased traffic from a prominent link on BR, and it satisfies all the individual who may want to be remotely associated with us but cannot be since its not time for him yet or no one is retiring soon in the bradmins

. (Ofcourse if he does not want to be part of BR - no issues there)

An individual can propose an idea to BR - (Defence Philately? Defence Research Development? A specific tank? LCA? a specific regiment? can be anything) and we approve it (only the idea - no editorial control over the content) and ask him go ahead and build it. BRites can give inputs and material from thier archives (material which has less chances of making it on BR site because its too focussed).

A second approach is to actually provide the webspace in a 'members.br.com/membername' style

Kuttan · Post by **Kuttan** » 03 Jul 2004 08:46

It is my personal belief that BRF has become a small, but not totally insignificant think-tank.

Ahem.... I happen to know at least one member who is a reputed international freelance writer on international affairs (we all know who that is) and another who happens to be a Senior ..... Security Fellow under a MacArthur Foundation grant. (few of u know who that is..)

And then of course there's me:

Senior Fellow, National Institute for Total War on Intelligent Thought. Beaucoup prestigious.. move over, Uneven Cohen!

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 03 Jul 2004 09:00

Originally posted by narayanan: Senior Fellow, National Institute for Total War [/QB]

NI-TWITs.. thats priceless..

Ashutosh · Post by **Ashutosh** » 03 Jul 2004 09:15

N^3, you forgot the Shrilleen uber-tanker of BRF - represented here in her divine absence by fans and lusting members alike!

amarnath · Post by **amarnath** » 03 Jul 2004 09:21

Jagan
Yes BR has 'killed' other sites except a few like the below..

remember warbirdsofindia.com ? some good old chap on BR seems to be running that too

And then there is Manku Thimmas site on LCA, would be nice to have a lot more there, but imagine 'everything' that can be put about on LCA will already be on BR...so what would the Webby do ? Cut-Copy-Paste.I think thats where BR starts 'killing' other sites. what do we have to build ? its all there on BR , strange that Shiv too had stated this idea some time back ?

Ashutosh · Post by **Ashutosh** » 03 Jul 2004 09:21

Ok, for a long time, one of the favourite whines of the admins has been bandwidth. I propose a solution that in real life should reduct BRF traffic down to about 30% of what it is right now.

It's nothing great - I just noticed that the BR Apache server does not use HTTP 1.1 GZIP on-the-fly compression. Just enable mod_gzip, and see magic happen. Here is more information: Get More Out of Your Pipe with Apache and mod_gzip

Consider this my birthday gift to BR :p

Ashutosh · Post by **Ashutosh** » 03 Jul 2004 09:24

Jagan, I doubt your idea will reduce the worldload of the admins - it will only help to increase it - and into areas where you will not have too much control. Imagine a packee posing as an Indian fan wanting to get BRF logo - and then going on to convert that website into something like dalitstan.org - what are you going to do? Do you have the time, energy and money to fight this 2 paisa jehadi living in Slumabad?