Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Oct 2015 05:25

Karan M wrote:
shiv wrote:Folks Allah willed that I should watch this. I normally don't
http://social.ndtv.com/vikramchandra/permalink/301861

When it appears online please do watch. Good program.

Parikkar is the most intelligent Defence minister I have seen
that's high praise sir. hope he lives up to it! video isn't up yet..only found this very interesting snippet

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/m ... ing/387266

Several things that he said impressed me.

The first thing that struck me was when some person in the audience was making a reference to American F-22s and "F-34"s.Parikkar silently mouthed a correction saying "F-35".

He spoke of the concept of slow moving files. He makes a circular motion with his hands and says that the files move fast but in the wrong direction. It's not about velocity which is merely a number, but a vector where the direction has to be right. I cannot imagine Krishna Menon, Chavan, Jagjivan Ram, Fernandes or Antony being able to say this. For you and me it is school stuff but not for our politicians.

Parikkar mentioned that fact that one cannot make sweeping large visible changes in one stroke. The nitty-gritty details matter and its a number of little steps that translate to big changes. He pointed out that when people within the system are faced with a new practice their first reaction is to oppose it (He quoted some book about this). He said that the little steps are being taken that will translate to sweeping changes.

About "make in India" Parikkar pointed out that the actual manufacturing unit might vary from something that is totally 100% Indian to one that simply does screwdriver assembly for a foreign market. He says that the advantage the latter brings is job creation and human skill development - skill that can them be taken elsewhere.

All in all a good program despite the name "The Big Fight". No fighting there

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 18 Oct 2015 06:07

Karan M wrote:I think i had posted this one before.
http://www.bel-india.com/?q=IACCS

Wargames?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 18 Oct 2015 09:08

Interesting photo of the lch L& M material.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 18 Oct 2015 10:30

[quote="Karan M"...
that's high praise sir. hope he lives up to it! video isn't up yet..only found this very interesting snippet

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/m ... ing/387266[/quote]

I think this is the full version:

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/the-bi ... dviaplayer

Added Later: BRFites do watch this interview - Begining to end - word to word - Gems

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 18 Oct 2015 10:38

Karan M wrote:
Aditya G wrote:

new ADGE pic?

http://www.indrastra.com/2015/09/ANALYS ... S-257.html
I think i had posted this one before.
http://www.bel-india.com/?q=IACCS

Map shows Punjab and Rajasthan sector. Two flights above Amritsar possibly to counter the two just across the border. We are capable of seeing flights inside Al-Bakistan upto Faisalabad. Another thing that can be noticed is that the North-Eastern sector is not seeing much flights. Picture could be at the time when the integration is not complete or there are not much flights happening around that area.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 Oct 2015 11:14

deejay wrote:http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/the-bi ... dviaplayer

Added Later: BRFites do watch this interview - Begining to end - word to word - Gems

Nice Discussion , Indian Companies Bullish , Goras on backfoot.

The host Chandra should let the Indian Chief speak then interjecting

MOD is as usual has very clear thought and very well informed , think one of the better MOD after GF.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 18 Oct 2015 12:17

Adding to Parrikar's comment on skill development.
The GoI is pushing it big time to support the "Make in India" initiative.

ITI boom: 8 institutes being set up every day since 5 months

Interesting excerpt from the article:

For example, a skill like welding has about 12 variants now,” the official added.

So it appears that the GoI has tasked upon itself , at least on some key skills, to provide training to cater to industries.
These will make India as a industrial production destination very attractive. This seems to be coupled with less red-tape, access to markets, good infrastructure, roads etc. The govt, it appears, is working on all those fronts at a blistering pace.

Sadly, all this should have happened in the 1960s. Skills are developed over time and passed on from generation to generation. You iterativlyl improve and perfect different industrial skills over time. India was simply cutoff from the skills/ knowledge channels because the license raj simply suffocated any development. The need for these skills arises only when you want to sell products.

The last few years so the first sprouts of innovation from the INdian IT sector. This has happened only after a gestation period of some 20 odd years. We have a long way to go.

srai · Post by **srai** » 18 Oct 2015 15:39

deejay wrote:http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/the-bi ... dviaplayer

Added Later: BRFites do watch this interview - Begining to end - word to word - Gems

To me (and it is what I've been advocating for), the IIT professor summed it up well; "Make in India" should not occur at the expense of "Innovate in India", especially for local R&D efforts on strategic/critical technologies that are on the verge of breakthroughs. These need some level of government protection/helping hand to take them to completion. Foreign nations/companies will offer such technologies when they know India is close to acquiring it indigenously. IPR is what is valuable and that could be manufactured anywhere. Strategic items should be made in India by Indian companies to avoid sanctions/denials of technologies.

"Make in India", as I understood it, is more for creating jobs whereby it generates skilled labor force and which would be necessary for future economy where manufacturing sector makes up 20-30% of it.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 18 Oct 2015 17:28

Neela wrote:Adding to Parrikar's comment on skill development.
The GoI is pushing it big time to support the "Make in India" initiative.

ITI boom: 8 institutes being set up every day since 5 months

Interesting excerpt from the article:
For example, a skill like welding has about 12 variants now,” the official added.

There are tons of North Indian young folks working in Metro construction and city buildings. Even if capture 20-30% of those folks, upgrade their skills (6-month to 1-year diploma), impart some basic edu skills like (running an operating system, basic banking/financial fundamentals). If these diploma holders can give better productivity and get higher pays, then peer-to-peer networks will kick in and there will be huge rush towards these ITIs. We can become global manufacturing hub within 5-10 years and if these folks start giving proper edu to their kids, then we can change face of Bharath forever.

Some problems are there: How to incentivize these folks to join these ITIs.
1. Use Edu cess to give 10K stipend every month for them, but how to manage paper colleges and scamming? How about roping Infra companies like L&T to send a mandatory percentage of their workers, bear some expenses, and be part of certificate issuing agency/board.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Oct 2015 17:32

My goodness - notice the alacrity with which Vikram Chandra shuts down the L&T SED gent when he starts speaking of sanctions and need for indian sourcing. But then the other panelists back him up. Note the US gent who dances around the topic and portrays it as a shareholder issue (for control, lol). Kudos to the Indian gents on the panel for being forthright in front of the audience and insisting on Indian IP and control.

Also I hope Mr Parrikar is extra careful. His predecessor Mr Fernandes who too was pro-services and thought he could make any change possible thanks to personal probity and what not, was deliberately entangled in the fake Tehelka case purely to serve the Queen's politics.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 18 Oct 2015 17:57

How come Vishnu Som isn't conducting the show?
Esp. when Boeing and Lockheed Martin reps are there?

Something not right with NDTV here. (Then again, when was it it ever eh Vishnu?)

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Oct 2015 18:18

Vishnu is on a US aircraft carrier reporting naval exercises.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 18 Oct 2015 18:39

shiv wrote:Vishnu is on a US aircraft carrier reporting naval exercises.

Is it not strange that best defence desks of media houses in India are The Hindu and NDTV, which are more interested to protect interests of foreign powers. Wondering how much these journalists are gathering info on informal meetings. Defense establishment should shun them, if not possible give access to other media houses and tell them that they just cant appear partial, so they will give equal rotating opportunity to all, and curtail access to The Hind and NDTV journalists as much as possible for sake of national interest.

nrshah · Post by **nrshah** » 18 Oct 2015 19:37

one important point made by the gent from bharat forge was what has the fdi which is allowed in other sectors brought so far that the gents from us companies are claiming will bring in more strategic and restricted sector of defense will bring.

Any way very heartening to see domestic companies taking up the challenge against the giants mic is US. I think if MP gives what is due, these are sede people who will out perform these giants in another 3 _4 decades.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Oct 2015 20:27

kmkraoind wrote:
Is it not strange that best defence desks of media houses in India are The Hindu and NDTV,

They are not the best defence desks. Zee TV in Hindi has some good reporting as do some other regional language channels - apart from people like Tarmak, Saurav Jha and yes I include Shiv Aroor who has morphed into a positive force. We have also had Sandeep Unnithan and a few others including two women whose names I can't recall.

Also Doordarshan is pretty good although no one seems to watch.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Oct 2015 20:31

kmkraoind wrote: There are tons of North Indian young folks working in Metro construction and city buildings.

That is what Modi is telling Bihar. Bangalore and other metros are a magnet for the unemployed masses from north, central and east India but they do unskilled jobs.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 18 Oct 2015 20:43

Kmkraoind: If you read that article in full, it clearly says that there are more ITIs stared by the industrial houses than the govt. so it is already happening. While I don't begrudge those who want IT jobs only, it has a friend note capacity - even if we do all ITES for the entire world. My estimate is about 10 million. There are 300 million graduates who are unemployable because they are trained in sciences/arts without any vocational training and skills required by the industry.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 19 Oct 2015 06:24

shiv wrote:
kmkraoind wrote:
Is it not strange that best defence desks of media houses in India are The Hindu and NDTV,
They are not the best defence desks. Zee TV in Hindi has some good reporting as do some other regional language channels - apart from people like Tarmak, Saurav Jha and yes I include Shiv Aroor who has morphed into a positive force. We have also had Sandeep Unnithan and a few others including two women whose names I can't recall.

Also Doordarshan is pretty good although no one seems to watch.

Before the new age defence journos came along, T.S. Subhramanian and Y. Mallikarjun of the Hindu were probably the most reliable reporters on defence science and tech.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 19 Oct 2015 06:29

R Prasannan of the Week and Hormuz Mama too. Chengappa was great but he became political.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Oct 2015 06:39

Thakur_B wrote:
shiv wrote: They are not the best defence desks. Zee TV in Hindi has some good reporting as do some other regional language channels - apart from people like Tarmak, Saurav Jha and yes I include Shiv Aroor who has morphed into a positive force. We have also had Sandeep Unnithan and a few others including two women whose names I can't recall.

Also Doordarshan is pretty good although no one seems to watch.
Before the new age defence journos came along, T.S. Subhramanian and Y. Mallikarjun of the Hindu were probably the most reliable reporters on defence science and tech.

The women are Huma Siddiqui and Mayurica Biswas. But they have both vanished from the defence reporting scene. Maroof Raza is not a "journalist" but when he talks I listen.

I follow your namesake Vijender Thakur who is not prone to posting the rhetorical comments that Ajai Shukla and Hemant Rout make.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Oct 2015 20:27

HS monitors BRF!
She mad a particular point to meet Arun_S and I when she visited Bay Area. However she is moving away from defense reporting.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 21 Oct 2015 18:58

Air Force Chopper Makes Emergency Landing In Mumbai's Bandra Kurla Complex

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Oct 2015 19:33

KaranM, Do we have a CAG report on IAF and IN Ammo purchases and supply chain like we have for the IA?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 22 Oct 2015 20:07

Several, though some were classified and removed from CAG website after services complaints. Which programs/ones are you looking for?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Oct 2015 20:38

Just any one set of stores and ammo issues for the IAF and IN to keep the IA report in perspective.
The IA report in 2015 (CAG report Performance Audit for year 2013 volume 19 of 2015 on Ammo Management in Indian Army) went through the whole gamut and to me highlighted that OFB is the key hindrance to force availability. Next is IA depot management.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 24 Oct 2015 02:20

NAL's Director's annual report is out.

From the airplane/UAV dept, these seem to be the highlights:
1. The development of mini and micro UAVs continue. PLEASE productionize them!
2. They are modifying the 55 HP wankel engine for a powered hang-glider operation. Prototype engine called Spurti. A gear box (instead of a belt drive), in-built starter motor, rugged bearings and a three bladed adjustable pitch composite propeller.
3. They are considering fitting a diesel engine in NM-5.
4. They are now coming up with a Microlight design (although it does seem to be all metallic frame).

5. Other aer studies on LCA/AMCA/LMV etc. continue.
6. Work is still on to get Saras back to flying status.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Oct 2015 07:34

^^^ What exactly happened to Saras , I thought it was still flying , any idea ?

They would suppose to replace the Do-228 with Saras and IAF even had some initial orders

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 24 Oct 2015 15:44

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 516288.cms

NEW DELHI: The Indian Air Force will now have women as fighter pilots. The ministry of defence on Saturday approved the induction of women into the fighter (Combat) stream of Indian Air Force, the first time when women would be in combat role in the country's armed forces.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Oct 2015 20:48

Nitesh wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 516288.cms

NEW DELHI: The Indian Air Force will now have women as fighter pilots. The ministry of defence on Saturday approved the induction of women into the fighter (Combat) stream of Indian Air Force, the first time when women would be in combat role in the country's armed forces.

Good move.

member_29172 · Post by **member_29172** » 25 Oct 2015 21:10

Nice move, are the physical requirements lowered for women officers as I believe is the case for American women officers?

BTW Indian women officers were allowed to operate/fly transport aircrafts and support vessels/vehicles right?

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 25 Oct 2015 21:30

Why is this such a good move? Are we lacking male pilot pool or is it another one of those me too kind of civilizational catch up requirements

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 25 Oct 2015 23:33

Cain Marko wrote:Why is this such a good move? Are we lacking male pilot pool or is it another one of those me too kind of civilizational catch up requirements

What's your problem ?

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 26 Oct 2015 03:12

Thakur_B wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:Why is this such a good move? Are we lacking male pilot pool or is it another one of those me too kind of civilizational catch up requirements
What's your problem ?

No problem, just wondering....why it is such a good thing? What service operational requirements does it resolve? Is there a shortage of pilots such that we need to expand the pool so as to have women in front line roles? Or is it purely for gender equality EOE kind of need?

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 26 Oct 2015 05:08

Cain Marko wrote:No problem, just wondering....why it is such a good thing? What service operational requirements does it resolve? Is there a shortage of pilots such that we need to expand the pool so as to have women in front line roles? Or is it purely for gender equality EOE kind of need?

It simply gives the IAF a wider selection of candidates to choose from. If there are women candidates who fulfil the criteria to become IAF pilots, they must be allowed to do so. I believe what IAF may have done is simply enable this.

Of course, it remains to be seen if any standards/criteria were relaxed to facilitate this intake. In that case, their impact on IAF's operational fitness needs to be properly examined.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 26 Oct 2015 05:49

Cain Marko wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:
What's your problem ?
No problem, just wondering....why it is such a good thing? What service operational requirements does it resolve? Is there a shortage of pilots such that we need to expand the pool so as to have women in front line roles? Or is it purely for gender equality EOE kind of need?

I don't see flying an aircraft to be an activity as intense physically as lugging around full infantry gear. More competition for the posts can only raise the quality. If a citizen of India wants to serve and meets the requirements, I see no reason why the opportunity to serve should be denied.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 26 Oct 2015 08:14

^Doesn't high-G flying exacerbate bleeding and such. How would such young women function in a fighter cockpit during periods? Isn't this one of the reasons why female combat pilots in the USAF is authorized for the A-10 while not for the other fighters?

Frankly, I am ignorant in this regard. Really, just trying to find out.

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 26 Oct 2015 10:41

There has been plenty of research showing shorter/smaller people can take more Gs than bigger ones. Lot of aspects like blood pressure, how effective g-suites are, (shorter) distance from heart to brain, etc work in their favour. But none of the research are specific to the the sex of the pilot. Shorter is better - be it a man or woman.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 26 Oct 2015 12:09

Check out what the Pilot says at around 1:00 min

[youtube]?v=TJi1vi9XHWY[/youtube]

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 26 Oct 2015 12:24

Will help to an extent solve the pilot shortage. However,I would prefer to have women pilots fly ops only in Indian airspace even in times of crisis. The ability to withstand G forces,etc. has to be determined by aviation medicine.

K_Rohit · Post by **K_Rohit** » 26 Oct 2015 12:39

^^^^^^^^^^
Comments on this are hard to understand. While regressive is a tough word, some of these comments do border on regressive.

Difficult to understand why not having a wider choice of selection for fighter candidates will ever be a bad choice. Women F-16 fighter pilots in fast, supersonic jets is quite common, with even Pakistan having had women fighter pilots since 2013. They have seen combat as well. Many other muslim and developing nations have had women fighter pilots before us. This of course does not include the West and Israel, where they are combat proven as well.