Indian Navy News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 19 Oct 2015 12:49

Gagan wrote:Guys, don't underestimate the seriousness of the Pakistani submarine episode.

Jakhau is just some 10-15 odd Kms from one of IAF's MAJOR airbases in Naliya. It is about 60Kms from the Bhuj AFB. The IAF also bases its maritime strike aircrafts in this area.

Almost the entire oil headed to India from the middle east come into a shipping lane just south of Jakhau and offloads into several oil jetties in the gulf of katch in Gujarat.

This is a super sensitive area that the IN and the Coast guard will have to patrol in the event of a conflict. The pakistanis have some of their subs equipped with sub launched exocets, which could potentially used in a blind land attack mode.

I doubt the veracity of the report, but if true, our three layered defense is still not up and running or has serious holes.

kit · Post by **kit** » 19 Oct 2015 13:38

why not have a SOSUS type system for the entire region ? ..advance warning of any sub patrols would be a big force multiplier ..the P8 would do the rest of the job

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Oct 2015 13:49

A sub that is seen is a ridiculous thing. They are meant to be stealthy and out of sight. Who saw what and who said it was a sub and who identified it as a Paki submarine 15 km out at sea? While a dozen anxieties are one thing I think a dose of scepticism is in order.

I am certain that fishermen know about subs although land lubbers may not recognize one, how does anyone know that it is a Paki sub? The story sounds like a load of bs to me.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Oct 2015 13:57

If I saw this in the water I would know that it is a submarine, but how would I know that it is a Pakistani submarine?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Oct 2015 14:25

perhaps the sub had surfaced to rendezvous with a fishing boat owned by smugglers/jihadis to transfer high value contraband like fake currency/gold/drugs/explosives or even jihadis themselves for a fresh attack later?

let us not imagine entire TSP is run like a unified criminal org. the jihadis, pure-play criminals, army, navy could be running their own scams in parallel, sometimes sharing info/resources/profits but sometimes not. TSP has many caliphs and centers of powers.

the only common agenda they would agree on is being anti-india.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 19 Oct 2015 17:11

Singha wrote:all they need to do is unleash 6 from all tubes , 75km offshore and slink away...even if 3 score hits its a big boost in the media war.

Presumes the IN to be sleeping in such a war time scenario. Would it not be just easier for them to launch one of its land based missiles, instead of risking a sub so close to Indian shores and test the assets of the IN?

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 19 Oct 2015 17:45

Most probably trying to smuggle explosives. The earlier attempts using boats were failures when it was blown out of water. The political issues that we hear in Gujarat and Punjab could be linked to this and may even have political backing from anti-national parties. Anyway these are some good guess. Those who really know about it will be doing what they are supposed to do. I agree with Shiv on one aspect. Its an unknown submarine as long as it's caught and destroyed.

member_29089 · Post by **member_29089** » 19 Oct 2015 17:59

shiv wrote:If I saw this in the water I would know that it is a submarine, but how would I know that it is a Pakistani submarine?

Saar, there is only one way. Sink it. Check the kitchen for pindi-chana. Check for C-cision.

BharadwajV · Post by **BharadwajV** » 19 Oct 2015 22:05

Gagan wrote:The pakistanis have some of their subs equipped with sub launched exocets, which could potentially used in a blind land attack mode.

Not to mention Khan's generosity:

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of 50 UGM-84L (submarine-launched), 50 RGM-84L (surface-launched), and 30 AGM-84L (air-launched) Block II Harpoon missiles; 5 Encapsulated Harpoon Command Launch Systems; 115 containers; missile modifications; training devices; spare and repair parts; technical support; support equipment; personnel training and training equipment; technical data and publications; U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $370 million.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... un-2).html
The Pakistanis would already have modified some of these to perform Land attack.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 19 Oct 2015 23:13

Singha wrote:a exocet with its radar seeker will easily lock onto the huge RCS of berthed ships at the jetty as well as shore infra like POL farms(Karachi 1971!), cranes, refineries etc. ofcourse a dedicated land attack missile like SLAM will have other sensors like scene matching etc to seek out targets in a more discriminating manner. but a exocet will work just fine on a refinery or POL storage.

all they need to do is unleash 6 from all tubes , 75km offshore and slink away...even if 3 score hits its a big boost in the media war.

Them Naval PAjis dare not do it ...

The massive brahmos relation will ensure that from thereon PN is spoken about only in historical references.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Oct 2015 01:26

GunterH wrote:
shiv wrote:If I saw this in the water I would know that it is a submarine, but how would I know that it is a Pakistani submarine?[img]http://thediplomat.com/wp-content/uploa ... 6x260.jpeg
Saar, there is only one way. Sink it. Check the kitchen for pindi-chana. Check for C-cision.

is that allowed covertly? and react as if it was an accident? their raw SOPS failure or something?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 20 Oct 2015 01:27

Perhaps Pakis using proven drug smuggling tactics perfected in the Caribbean? There is a lot of non-state submarine activity there nowadays.

Paki tactical brilliance can be reckless but taking a crown jewel to danger is too much for them.

IN is hopefully getting an enquiry into this.

Singha wrote:perhaps the sub had surfaced to rendezvous with a fishing boat owned by smugglers/jihadis to transfer high value contraband like fake currency/gold/drugs/explosives or even jihadis themselves for a fresh attack later?

let us not imagine entire TSP is run like a unified criminal org. the jihadis, pure-play criminals, army, navy could be running their own scams in parallel, sometimes sharing info/resources/profits but sometimes not. TSP has many caliphs and centers of powers.

the only common agenda they would agree on is being anti-india.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 20 Oct 2015 01:36

Have there been any other credible reports of this submarine activity? The original ToI article was economical with the details, and said the sub captured fishermen

. Did the sub wait for all of them to climb aboard and get in through the tower, or did it swallow them like that old James Bond film?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 20 Oct 2015 02:03

First thing first, we need to acknowledge that these are not stray incidents. There are two patterns observed:

1. Actions by Paki non-state vessels. Occasionally getting blown up, scuttled by fire etc. Proven in 26/11 attacks and 93 bombings.

2. Actions by Pakistan MSA, or unidentified state vessels.

The situation is similar to what we see on LoC:

- Hazy border with disputes (Sir creek)
- Infiltration of men and materials
- Firing support by Pakistan MSA

From casual study both types of incidents seem to be on uptick. Last one was not far back:

18-Sep-2015: An Indian fisherman was killed off Dwarka in Gujarat when Pakistan Maritime Security Agency (PMSA) personnel fired about 5 to 6 rounds at two fishing boats.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Oct 2015 09:19

pakis do have a strong fleet of italian midget submarines. and SSG naval unit trains to use them for sabotage etc.
looking at how drug smugglers use low slung midget vessels to ship tons of cocaine and heroin, PN midget subs might be used for same purpose to land stuff on GUJ and MH coastline.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 21 Oct 2015 12:26

Singha wrote:pakis do have a strong fleet of italian midget submarines. and SSG naval unit trains to use them for sabotage etc.
looking at how drug smugglers use low slung midget vessels to ship tons of cocaine and heroin, PN midget subs might be used for same purpose to land stuff on GUJ and MH coastline.

Again in the realm of possibilities but probable weighed against risk/reward and alternatives to accomplish the same goal? Sending an asset such as a sub in harms way for such a mission is either foolishness or asking for trouble, both within the capabilities of TSP. Still, really? Have they built those type of gonads? History does not indicate it to be so.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Oct 2015 12:35

it did take a lot of gonads to authorize a hit on the indian parliament itself. it could easily have been a massacre of 100s of VIPs if they had got through and such was the intent.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 21 Oct 2015 13:05

Singha wrote:it did take a lot of gonads to authorize a hit on the indian parliament itself. it could easily have been a massacre of 100s of VIPs if they had got through and such was the intent.

Plausible deniability worked in the matrix here and the reason why they were able to use US offices to stave off Parakram's wrath. No doubt India's recessed postures is encouragement for the entire cabal.

Difference between organized planned action with distinguishable assets and semi-controlled chaotic actions, even if some may have met some stupendous goals, like 26/11. The PA has run away EVERY time, when stood up to and in Parakram, it was no different.

Anyways, until there is some more confirmation of the report (which i hope will never materialize), we are left to speculations.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 21 Oct 2015 15:01

Can someone post the pic of the D-51 with the 8 inclined BMos launchers please?

kit · Post by **kit** » 21 Oct 2015 20:02

http://idrw.org/while-indo-us-talk-defe ... more-76522

is this true .. interesting ! having their cake and eating it too wrt to China !

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 21 Oct 2015 20:13

kit wrote:http://idrw.org/while-indo-us-talk-defe ... more-76522

is this true .. interesting ! having their cake and eating it too wrt to China !

Interesting indeed.

exciting would be a brahmos test in the vicinity of the operational challenge.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Oct 2015 20:36

this must have been for trials phase

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 21 Oct 2015 22:00

nirav wrote:
kit wrote:http://idrw.org/while-indo-us-talk-defe ... more-76522

is this true .. interesting ! having their cake and eating it too wrt to China !
Interesting indeed.

exciting would be a brahmos test in the vicinity of the operational challenge.

One thing to learn from the Chinese, be a self made and an independent power. Nothing surprising in the article btw.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 22 Oct 2015 00:14

Singha wrote:this must have been for trials phase

as deployed

K_Rohit · Post by **K_Rohit** » 22 Oct 2015 07:55

Aditya G wrote:
Singha wrote:this must have been for trials phase

as deployed

Thanks, any view of the 8 missiles configuration? Without the Styx?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 22 Oct 2015 10:36

Tx. for the pic.So there isn't an 8 BMos launcher in inclined mode. I wonder why the Styx has been retained,just two,with 4 BMos.It would've been better if all 8 were BMos.

MP quoted on the IN sub needs in another report. A little nugget of info from that interview."The approved no of subs is 30,but we may get a few more".This should work out to a sub force of around 18 conventional subs,6 SSBNs and 6 SSN/SSGNs.The latter to be built in India.The "few more" will most likely be N-subs in addition to the 6 to be built in India.This conflicts with the "24" given in the report below.30+ subs is a far healthier number than 24 and will be tbe bare minimum to be able to deal with both Pak and China.

Delay in procurement policy revision hits submarine project

The Rs 50,000-80,000-crore project, the first to be cleared by the Modi government under ‘Make in India’ programme, is critical for the depleting submarine arm of the Navy.
Written by Pranav Kulkarni | New Delhi | Published:October 21, 2015
- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... dpuf[quote]
Written by Pranav Kulkarni | New Delhi | Published:October 21, 2015 2:23 am

Despite being cleared a year ago, the project to indigenously construct six conventional submarines for the Navy has failed to make any headway as the Defence Procurement Policy (DPP) has not yet been finalised.

In April, Defence Minister Parrikar had constituted a committee under former defence secretary Dhirendra Singh to recommend changes in the DPP. While the committee has already made its recommendations, the final DPP is likely to be rolled out by the end of this year.

The Rs 50,000-80,000-crore project, the first to be cleared by the Modi government under ‘Make in India’ programme, is critical for the depleting submarine arm of the Navy.

“The Defence Ministry has received a report authored by Vice Admiral A V Subhedar that has identified the Indian shipyards, which can undertake construction of these submarines. However, to zero in on one shipyard and award the contract, the DPP has to be finalised first,” a Defence Ministry official said.

The submarine project was cleared by Arun Jaitley-chaired Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) in October 2014. The defence ministry had then ordered a committee under Vice Admiral Subhedar to identify Indian shipyards. The committee had surveyed seven Indian shipyards — HSL, Mazagon Docks Limited, Pipavav, GRSE, Goa Shipyards Limited, Cochin Shipyards Limited and Larsen and Toubro — for the execution of the project in collaboration with foreign manufacturers.

The project is crucial for the Navy which in 1999 had set a target to acquire 24 submarines by 2030.
- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... WGRjf.dpuf[/quote]

Another moot point.Approval has been given for the "second refit" of our Kilos to extend their life by 15 years.Russia is doing the same for her Kilos.The first is to be refitted in Russia and the remaining 3 at Pip's yd in India.Cost per refit approx. $150M. Now a brand new Kilos,latest avatar is only $300m+ (Vietnam) and delivered in a record time of just two years,while the refit will take approx. 15-18 months. Surely a brand new sub is preferable ? Or is the situ so desperate that we need these 4 Kilos plus another sub type? Consdiering that we originally had 10 Kilos,lost one,ordering a few more to increase the inventory of an excellent type which we are used to would've also been prudent.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 22 Oct 2015 11:14

Philip, frames 0:20, 0:37 and 1:37 of the IFR theme song video clearly shows 8 inclined canisters. The pennant number is not clearly visible but appears to be D51

Aditya - on reuse of penant numbers, for some reason IN does not want 3 digit numbers, and given that number of ships are increasing, reuse becomes inevitable. The U.S. Navy though is very methodical in their numbering. One can trace their submarines from 1 in the last century to the current 700 series. Israeli are deliberately confusing, with one unit having single digit number and the other 4 digit. They also frequently change numbers to ensure enemy is confused.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 22 Oct 2015 11:48

Tx Tsarkar.Will ck this out.Moree nws.

http://news.niticentral.com/2015/10/21/ ... dquarters/

Maharashtra and Gujarat Naval Areas divided into two separate headquarters

With a view to enhance operational and administrative organizational structure, the erstwhile Maharashtra and Gujarat Naval Area has been divided to make two separate headquarters under Flag Officer Maharashtra Area and Flag Officer Gujarat Naval Area.

The division of the Naval Areas was marked by Rear Admiral Satish Namdeo Ghormade, assuming of charge of Flag Officer Maharashtra Area from Rear Admiral Murlidhar Sadashiv Pawar this morning. Rear Admiral Murlidhar Sadashiv Pawar will officiate as Flag Officer Gujarat Naval Area.

Rear Admiral SN Ghormade was commissioned into theIndian Navy on 01 Jan 1984. He is a graduate of National Defence Acedamy (NDA),Khadakwasla, United States Naval Staff Collage at Naval War Collage, Newport,Rhode Island and the Naval War Collage, Mumbai. In addition to a specializationin Navigation and Direction within the Navy, the officer holds a Master Degreein Personnel Management from Symbosis Institute of Business Management(University of Pune), M Phil in Defence and Strategic Studies from Universityof Madras.

During his career spanning over 31 years, he hasbeen through a myriad of operational and staff appointments. His operationalappointments include commands of the Guided Missile Frigate INS Brahmaputra,Submarine Rescue Vessel INS Nireekshak, and Minesweeper INS Allepey and secondin Command Guided Missile Frigate INS Ganga. His important staff appointmentsashore include Assistant Chief of Personnel (Human Resource Development),Principal Director of Personnel, Director Naval Plans and Joint Director NavalPlans at Naval Headquarters as separate assignments, Director (MilitaryAffairs) at the Ministry of External Affairs, Local Work Up Team (West),Instructor at Navigation Direction School and National Defence Academy. Uponpromotion to the Flag Rank in 2012, the officer assumed the appointment ofAssistant Chief of Personnel (HRD) and prior to this held the appointment ofFlag Officer Commanding Karnataka Naval Area.

The officer is the recipient of the Nau Sena Medal in 2007 by the President of India and Commendation by Chief of Naval Staff in 2000.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 22 Oct 2015 18:24

New video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdKgQFsD3Kw

Behind the CNS is a model of a Ghurab, that were indigenous sailing warships used by Kanhoji Angre.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 22 Oct 2015 23:59

Here you go lads. Your own mini Slava cruiser.

Send in Rajput and Prabal into Karachi and between themselves they will bag all ships, POL and clifton villas

.

MadhuG · Post by **MadhuG** » 23 Oct 2015 06:30

I am guessing that the Styx could be retained as decoys to draw CIWS and short range SAM while the Brahmos could home in for the kill against an enemy battle group.

Also Styx isn't that bad. It will be more cost effective to blow up tanker heading East with a Styx than using a Brahmos.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 23 Oct 2015 10:04

Tx guys for the Rajput/BMos pics Good to see how swiftly the IN is fitting BMos onto as many platforms as poss. My guess is that our venerable SS-N-2Ds have been tweaked a bit,why they're still being kept on.The "mini Slava" Rajput/Kashins are a fantastic innovation and upgrade of a 1960s design! If the fore and aft SAN-1 launchers are removed and B-8s fitted,they would make these DDGs even more formidable.I wonder how much more life the hulls have in them. Given this config,one would imagine that the first 3 Delhis would also be fitted with BMos in similar style. The Urans could then be used on smaller vessels.

No end in sight for Indian navy’s wait for torpedoes after scam
Rahul Singh, Hindustan Times, New Delhi
| Updated: Oct 21, 2015

A crucial naval requirement for heavyweight torpedoes is stuck as the defence ministry awaits legal opinion on whether it can place an order for the lethal underwater weapon from the subsidiary of a tainted arms firm.

The navy plans to buy Black Shark torpedoes for its Scorpene submarines - under-construction at a yard in Mumbai - from Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subacquei (WASS), a subsidiary of Italian defence conglomerate Finmeccanica embroiled in a chopper scam.

After a desperate push by the navy that has called the torpedoes an “operational necessity”, defence minister Manohar Parrikar referred the proposed acquisition to the law ministry a few months ago but no guidelines have been issued so far.

The law ministry’s opinion on the case will be hugely significant as it will decide if the government can award military contracts to subsidiaries of banned companies, shaping an overarching principle for future deals. WASS had emerged as the lowest bidder for supplying the heavyweight torpedoes for the Scorpene submarines, the first of which will get commissioned late next year.

India, however, banned Finmeccanica last year from taking part in future military tenders after its UK-based subsidiary AgustaWestland faced bribery allegations in the Rs 3,727-crore VVIP chopper deal. The deal with WASS was put on hold in July 2014.

“No decision has been taken on the Black Shark deal. It’s still with the law ministry…the government knows we require the torpedoes urgently,” a senior navy officer said.

There’s no ban on ongoing contracts with the Italian defence major. The defence ministry imposed a partial ban on Finmeccanica last year but did not blacklist the company following the attorney general’s advice that a complete ban on the group could affect the military’s combat readiness. The NDA government has advocated a flexible approach in dealing with such firms if the military’s combat readiness is at stake. The Centre is working on new defence procurement rules that will have specific guidelines for arms agents and blacklisted firms.

In August, Parrikar told Parliament that his ministry “has decided to seek opinion in the matter (WASS torpedoes) from the Ministry of Law and Justice.” The first Scorpene submarine, Kalvari, is scheduled to kick off its weapon trials towards June 2016. Six submarines are being built at the Mazagon Dock Ltd with technology from French firm DCNS under a Rs 23,562 crore project called P-75.

srai · Post by **srai** » 23 Oct 2015 14:46

^^^

At the rate Black Shark torpedoes acquisition is going, DRDO's Varunastra HWT might be ready by then.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 23 Oct 2015 15:43

The calmness and quietness in the torpedo acquisition could be because we do have our own torpedoes. We are already manufacturing light weight torpedoes like TAL and an advanced version-II of it called Advanced TAL. The submarine/Ship launched torpedo is called Takshak whereas Varunastra is an advanced ship launched variant of Takshak.

http://www.frontline.in/static/html/fl2 ... 509800.htm
Article is from Mar. 10-23, 2012

The NSTL has developed both light-water{weight} torpedoes (LWTs), named TAL, and heavy-weight torpedoes (HWTs), named Takshak and Varunastra. Takshak has two versions, a submarine-launched variant with wire guidance and a ship-launched one with autonomous guidance. Varunastra is an advanced version of the ship-launched HWT. Under development is a torpedo called Shakti with thermal propulsion, which can generate 500 kilowatt of power and rev up the engine within a second. “Thermal propulsion is a challenging technology,” said Rangarajan. “It is a totally indigenous effort. We have already consolidated several technologies in its development. Only the United States, the United Kingdom and Russia had torpedoes with thermal propulsion when we took up the challenge.”

In Takshak, which is an anti-submarine system, the wire is the medium of communication between the torpedo and the firing ship. If the wire breaks, Takshak would become an autonomous torpedo like its ship-launched variant. It can travel up to a distance of 40 km for taking out submarines and can operate up to a depth of 400 m.

“Development of a torpedo takes 10 to 15 years. It has to go through several sea trials. We started out in this field 25 years ago. No torpedo technology is available in the open market,” he added.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 23 Oct 2015 16:13

srai wrote:^^^

At the rate Black Shark torpedoes acquisition is going, DRDO's Varunastra HWT might be ready by then.

Scorpene would be tested and certified for Black Shark torpedoes , you cant integrate Varunastra or other torpedoes with it as the Sonars/Fire Control are french and is tightly integrated with the Weapon.

We can use Varunastra on Upgraded Kilos that have Indian Sonar and Open Architecture Framework , ofcourse that still needs to be tested and certified with this weapon but its doable.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 24 Oct 2015 11:15

Brain dump for air crafts for the INS Vishal:

Flying: MiG-29K
In Dev: LCA-N (MK-II variant)

IN has inquired about:
5+ years ago: F-35 B/C
<a year: Rafale-M

No naval variants being considered:
PAK-FA
FGFA
AMCA

Filed under IMHO: MiG-29K is out for the Vishal. LCA-N will have some presence. Under what we have in front of us, I think, the Rafale-M has a decent shot, with the F-35 B/C a better one.

Thoughts?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Oct 2015 12:20

IN being a staunch supporter of Indiginisation would bet on Tejas Mk2/Mk3 variant considering it has put money on Naval Mk1 when IAF was dilly dallying it.

2nd best option would be 29K and Rafale both operated by Airforce so logistic when it comes to MRO/Spares wont be an issue.

I would bet on Rafale and Tejas for Vishal

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 24 Oct 2015 12:59

Rafale very unikely given its massive cost. The naval variant will be even more expensive than the std. Rafale.One could get 3 upgraded 29Ks to 35 std. for the price of one Rafale. The single-engine LCA MK-2 will be rather ineffective for long range maritime ops even if it arrives on time.Inner air defence of the fleet would be v.useful but would it be able to undertake missions to deter aircraft carrying 200-300km range ASMs? I also have my doubts whether it will now arrive before 2025 from latest reports.A twin-engine med/heavy aircraft is required and a naval Flanker should be the best bet for a larger carrier of 65,000t+.With a Super-Sukhoi design in the works with some stealth "additives",able to carry 3 BMos-Ms,a naval variant would be the best bet,as it would also make support,spares,etc. far easier with the hundreds of Flankers in service with the IAF.

If we are able to design a suitable multi-role amphib of around 35,000t+,the NLCA could be used for close support in amphib ops very well along with attack helos.They would be v.useful for limited air defence too. SAAB had an offer for Sea Gripen which could operate from a Viraat size CV. The NLCA would be v.useful in some operations where a larger CV is not needed. If another Vikrant class CV is ordered,the smaller NLCA would be a good complement to the larger 29Ks.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 24 Oct 2015 14:06

We operated 6 Mahe class inshore minesweepers from '83 to 2006. These were acquired from the Soviet Union, built under Project 1258E.

All at 100 tons.

Decline in Pondicherry class is oft noted, but how about this class & category of vessels which is not even under consideration for replacement.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 25 Oct 2015 20:04

srai wrote:At the rate Black Shark torpedoes acquisition is going, DRDO's Varunastra HWT might be ready by then.

Western 533 mm TT and torpedoes are shorter in length than Russian 533 mm TT & torpedoes. All DRDO torpedoes under development are at Russian sizes. Wont fit Kalvari or Shalki but will arm Arihant, Chakra & Sindhu's.