Indian Navy News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 25 Oct 2015 23:03

Any news on the MPAA tender that the IN had floated, would love to see an indian effort in this direction, perhaps with some Israeli input. If they could get a desi aew going, why not an embraer based mpaa?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Oct 2015 04:33

is our maareech similar to CONTRALTO®-V?

member_29172 · Post by **member_29172** » 26 Oct 2015 07:20

^^ why do some people here this obsession to prove that we clone our products?

Nick_S · Post by **Nick_S** » 27 Oct 2015 12:14

RM releases Indian Maritime Security Strategy-2015

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Oct 2015 15:30

Russia to lease another nuclear sub to India in December

NEW DELHI, October 26. /TASS/. An agreement on leasing another Russian nuclear-powered submarine to India is to be signed at the Russian-Indian summit in December, a source at India’s Defense Ministry told TASS.

The possibility of leasing a second submarine from Russia will be studied when India’s Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar will visit Moscow next week," the source said. "Parrikar will hold talks on this strategic project with his Russian counterpart Sergey Shoigu. After the ten-year contract is signed another two or three years will be required for upgrading the submarine in keeping with India’s requirements," he said.

A Russian military source at the Russian embassy in New Delhi has confirmed to TASS the negotiations on leasing the Kashalot K-322 nuclear power submarine of project 971 Shchuka had entered the final phase.

"If the contract is signed, it will be the third Russia-built submarine handed over to the Indian Navy," he said. "For the first time India leased a Russian nuclear submarine for ten years back in the early 1980s. In 2012 the Indian Navy leased Russia’s K-152 Nerpa submarine of project 971. This is a customary and well-tested way of cooperation by our countries in the military-technical sphere."

According to the Russian source, the submarine will undergo fundamental upgrade in line with the customer’s requirements at the Amur shipyards, where it is at the moment. The repair, upgrade and testing work and the Indian crew’s training are to be completed by 2018.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Oct 2015 20:14

Hope naysayers calm down a bit.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 27 Oct 2015 22:51

I presume the news about Talwar follow ons being available for sale will also end up in India along with this boat as some sort of package deal.

Join date for refurb akula seems to be 2018: http://www.defenseworld.net/news/11966/ ... i-_lSuuxvY

What is that ball shaped thing on the left of the island. There seems enough space to jam about 4-5 more planes up top if they cleared that space. I also see two parked in front of the island.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 28 Oct 2015 00:45

Cybaru wrote:...

What is that ball shaped thing on the left of the island. There seems enough space to jam about 4-5 more planes up top if they cleared that space. I also see two parked in front of the island.

Seems to be a boat covered with tarpaulin. Ahead of it is a crane or winch system to lower it into the water.

Dimension wise there may be enough space to park a MiG there, but probably none to maneuver it safely and 'properly' into combat position etc.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 28 Oct 2015 03:04

Funny, why IN had to photoshop Migs on deck. They must have plenty of pics with Migs onboard already in stock.

member_28397 · Post by **member_28397** » 28 Oct 2015 06:41

Sid wrote:Funny, why IN had to photoshop Migs on deck. They must have plenty of pics with Migs onboard already in stock.

doesn't look photo-shopped to me

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Oct 2015 06:42

the area between the island and the extra mast could be used to park deck tractors or put in barak8

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 28 Oct 2015 06:51

Austin wrote:Russia to lease another nuclear sub to India in December

NEW DELHI, October 26. /TASS/. An agreement on leasing another Russian nuclear-powered submarine to India is to be signed at the Russian-Indian summit in December, a source at India’s Defense Ministry told TASS.

The possibility of leasing a second submarine from Russia will be studied when India’s Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar will visit Moscow next week," the source said. "Parrikar will hold talks on this strategic project with his Russian counterpart Sergey Shoigu. After the ten-year contract is signed another two or three years will be required for upgrading the submarine in keeping with India’s requirements," he said.

srai · Post by **srai** » 28 Oct 2015 07:51

Viv S wrote:
Austin wrote:Russia to lease another nuclear sub to India in December

NEW DELHI, October 26. /TASS/. An agreement on leasing another Russian nuclear-powered submarine to India is to be signed at the Russian-Indian summit in December, a source at India’s Defense Ministry told TASS.

The possibility of leasing a second submarine from Russia will be studied when India’s Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar will visit Moscow next week," the source said. "Parrikar will hold talks on this strategic project with his Russian counterpart Sergey Shoigu. After the ten-year contract is signed another two or three years will be required for upgrading the submarine in keeping with India’s requirements," he said.

That's where the Russians would want India to buy additional hardware from them in return for their "generosity".

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Oct 2015 09:04

3 unwanted yantar FFG for a start

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 28 Oct 2015 11:49

Well,we've been ruminating with plans to acquire 3-4 more for some time.We need extra multi-role FFGs which are affordable.The Talwars are 4000t.The P-17s are actually DDG size.The Rajputs/Kashins are approx 5000t and the Shivs 6000t! 2000t more than a Talwar.They were to have been built at Pip with the "R"Co.But considering the delays in delivery of major warships from the DPSU yards,getting them faster would be fine.They could all be transferred to Pip,for final outfitting with the B-8,BMos and other weaponry and eqpt.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 28 Oct 2015 16:59

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/defence-ministry-to-clear-military-deals-worth-rs-5000-cr/articleshow/49561226.cms

...
Parrikar, who is set to leave for Russia on Friday, is also likely to discuss the possible acquisition of two new Kilo class submarines for the Indian Navy that is battling with a depleted underwater fleet. India currently operates nine Kilo submarines under the Sindhughosh class and had lost one to a major explosion at the Mumbai harbour in 2013.

The two submarines are being offered as a quick option to fill gaps as St Petersburg already has a line of advanced Kilo class submarines under production for the Russian Navy as well as a Vietnamese order.

...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Oct 2015 17:42

Philip sir would surely throw a vodka and caviar party if we get even one new kilo

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 28 Oct 2015 19:35

I really doubt we will buy yantar FFGs like we did not touched the French helicopter carrier.

Russians might lose more Indian defense deals if they try to link PAK-FA with S-400 or the other way around.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Oct 2015 20:24

with canada likely to pull out some 60 JSF-mk2 should be available in early 2020s

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 28 Oct 2015 20:32

If news is true then IN would have written acceptance of necessaity to MOD to initiate purchase of sub's, IN sub situation may be more bad then we know, they should hve initiated sub purchase 5 yes back but Antony would not pay any dime to purchase even batteries

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Oct 2015 20:50

Why this Kalvari di?

It looks like our scorpene class is getting ahead of the schedule @MDL.

BTW, what is the name of our indigenous anti-sub missile?
is this very similar to malafon or a vLS like the amriki ones?

interesting, i read in wiki about massan SUBROC/that can carry 5kt nukes. never clear what was the intended purpose of this design?

member_22906 · Post by **member_22906** » 28 Oct 2015 21:36

Not sure if this was posted earlier

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 561093.cms

Private shipyards ABG and Pipavav are keeping their fingers crossed as the Defence Ministry is set to decide whether they have the financial and technical capability to handle a Rs 20,000 crore contract for the construction of new amphibious fighting ships for the Navy.

The two yards, which had been shortlisted along with L&T for a navy order for four Landing Platform Dock (LPDs), have recently faced corporate debt restructuring and changes in management, prompting a `capacity assessment' report ordered by the Defence Ministry.

Sources have told ET that while the Navy, which carried out the in depth assessment of the financial stability of the yards, has given both of them a go ahead for the mega `Make in India' contract, a final decision would be taken by the Manohar Parrikar led Defence Ministry shortly.

If both yards are cleared by the MoD, the next step would be the opening of commercial offers of the three yards, with the winner being decided on the basis of the lowest price offered. While L&T had tied up with Spain's Navantia for the contract, Pipavav has an agreement with French shipbuilder DCNS and ABG is tied up with US based Alion.

"This is the biggest warship construction project for the private sector and has the potential to make the winner a leading player. The 20,000 ton LPD would be the largest warship to be built in an Indian yard after the aircraft carrier under construction in Kochi," a Navy officer told ET.

As per the plan, the winning private sector yard would construct two of the LPDs at their facilities and would assist defence owned Hindustan Shipyard Limited (HSL) to construct the remaining two. A modern LPD would be a major addition to India's offensive marine capability with the vessels designed to carry tanks, infantry combat vehicles, trucks as well as choppers and fully equipped soldiers across the world.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 29 Oct 2015 04:12

JTull wrote:http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/defence-ministry-to-clear-military-deals-worth-rs-5000-cr/articleshow/49561226.cms

...
Parrikar, who is set to leave for Russia on Friday, is also likely to discuss the possible acquisition of two new Kilo class submarines for the Indian Navy that is battling with a depleted underwater fleet. India currently operates nine Kilo submarines under the Sindhughosh class and had lost one to a major explosion at the Mumbai harbour in 2013.

The two submarines are being offered as a quick option to fill gaps as St Petersburg already has a line of advanced Kilo class submarines under production for the Russian Navy as well as a Vietnamese order.

...

Is the kilo deal (if signed) in addition to the 6 SSKs we are looking to build?

jayasimha · Post by **jayasimha** » 29 Oct 2015 08:42

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=129958

Print ReleasePrint
Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
26-October-2015 15:41 IST
Indigenous Component in Fight Category of Ship Building

Needs to be Increased Substantially: Defence Minister Shri Manohar Parrikar

The biannual Naval Commanders’ Conference of 2015 commenced in New Delhi today. This conference is held to discuss issues of operational relevance, identify capability gaps and to review the future plans of the Navy.

The Defence Minister, Shri Manohar Parrikar inaugurated the conference and congratulated the men and women of the Indian Navy for discharging their duties with utmost diligence and professionalism. He met Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral RK Dhowan, Commanders’-in-Chiefs of various commands of the Navy and other top commanders and held discussions with them.

Addressing the Commanders’, Shri Parrikar emphasised on the need for continuous vigil and readiness to respond to any contingencies in our area of interest which required maintaining highest combat readiness of platforms and diligent monitoring of developments in the maritime domain. He assured the Commanders’ that the Ministry of Defence is committed to provide the requisite support to Indian Navy’s quest for planned modernisation activities.

Taking note of the extensive deployments at extended ranges from our coasts, spanning from the South China Sea and Sea of Japan in the East to the Persian Gulf and the Atlantic Ocean in the West, the minister expressed satisfaction at the very high operational tempo maintained by the Indian Navy.

Shri Parrikar complimented the Indian Navy’s continuous presence and pro-active focussed operations in deterring piracy attempts off the Gulf of Aden which resulted in the recent decision by CGPCS to shift the eastern limit of High Risk Area from 78 Degrees East to 65 Degrees East. Incidentally there has been no hijacking of Indian owned ship since 2008, the minister stated.

Stressing that ‘Make in India’ is an important aspect, he expressed his pleasure with the impetus being imparted towards indigenous development of naval capabilities and pace of modernisation programme of the Indian Navy. He was appreciative of the strides made by the Naval Designers, and has urged that the indigenous component in fight category needs to be increased esp. in submarine construction. He also highlighted the issues of capability shortfalls of ship borne helicopters, MCMVs and submarines and assured full support of the Government in addressing them.

Addressing the challenges pertaining to human resource development in the Navy, which are unique due to high levels of technical skills required to operate complex, state-of-the-art ships, submarines and deck launched fighter aircraft, Shri Parrikar extended his unstinted support towards improving the quality of life and welfare of our sailors and their next of kin. He congratulated the Navy for designating the current year as the ‘Year of the Sailor’.

Shri Parrikar expressed confidence that the Senior Commanders of the Navy will take a closer look at all the important issues and take decisions to address the shortcomings and chart a futuristic, visionary roadmap for the Navy.

Shri Parrikar also released the follow-on edition of the Navy’s strategic guidance document titled ‘Ensuring Secure Seas: Indian Maritime Military Strategy’. The need to revise the existing strategic guidance document (published in 2007) arose in view of the prevalent geo-economic and geo-strategic scenarios which in turn have increased the navy’s role and responsibilities significantly in the last decade. This edition highlights the incontrovertible link between the seas and India’s resurgence in the 21st century.

The Naval Commanders are discussing matters related to combat readiness of the fleet and other operational formations, building capabilities for the future and addressing human resource challenges amongst others.

DKS/ CKP

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Oct 2015 09:09

ABGs partner Alion unlike navantia(juan carlos) or DCN(mistral) is not a shipbuilder but a ship design house. going by their video seems to be involved in us navy projects also like san antonio class
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNJxNo_ ... 30&index=1

I am all for the cheapest and smallest LPDs that will fill the role IN has for them.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 29 Oct 2015 09:20

Any new Kilos would be excellent news! In fact any new subs are welcome,Kilos,U-boats,whatever.The IN's sub crisis is so acute that it is a case of "any port in a storm"!

The "two Kilo" offer,pun intended

, is most probably a Diwali sweetener that comes along with the second Akula-3.Since we lost the SR,two immediate replacements of the same sub type is a very attractive offer.The Kilos are being built in record speed of just 2 years a sub and costs approx. between $300-400M a sub.

Another reason why the "two Kilo" need is being considered,is that 4 more Kilos are due for their "second refit",the first in Russia and the rest at Pip. .This deal has been sealed,costing about $100-150M/sub.This will being them upto current std. missile firing capability and add another 10-15 years of life to the subs. During this refit time, our sub numbers will deplete even further from the current sea bottom level.Thus adding two new Kilos will help fill the gap and allow the IN to maintain a Kilo fleet of approx. 10 subs. While in Moscow,MP should look for the lease/acquisition of more Akulas.3-4 Akulas will give the IN a true blue-water sub capability even as we look at building 6 SSNs to desi design,which will only start arriving from around 2025.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 29 Oct 2015 10:12

Sitanshu Kar ‏@SpokespersonMoD 6h6 hours ago
A Milestone..MDL's 1st Submarine-Kalvari- separated from pontoon & set afloat at Naval Dockyard, Mumbai.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 29 Oct 2015 12:32

Sitanshu Kar ‏@SpokespersonMoD

One more picture of MDL's 1st Scorpene- Class submarine- #Kalvari- in Mumbai.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Oct 2015 12:33

from his account.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Oct 2015 12:36

interior dimension would be same or large than kilo which looks fatter due to double hull.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Oct 2015 12:45

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Oct 2015 12:47

in our indian scorpene also the propeller is covered in cloth
https://twitter.com/SpokespersonMoD/sta ... 6348563457

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Oct 2015 15:26

The build quality of Scorpene from MDL looks good and the size of cheek array sonar for a SSK is impressive.

Its time we buy 2 DSRV as the number of submarine will only rise and Nuke submarine giving to more diving depts , Need to keep 1 DSRV handy active any time for any rescue mission or training exercise , Cant depend on foreign navy for help.

The Type 209 has its own escape pod perhaps unique for any SSK in the world built on Indian request , The Chakra and Arihant also have their own escape pod on the sail but for Kilo and Scorpene I dont think they have one inbuilt so we need DSRV

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Oct 2015 15:39

Singha wrote:interior dimension would be same or large than kilo which looks fatter due to double hull.

The Dimension of Outer and Inner Hull of Kilo is seen well in this picture

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Oct 2015 17:11

I dont think IN is very concerned with AIP right now because they expect to operate the SSKs locally and can protect them on the surface and air. the SSNs will be the heavy hitters to hunt far away.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Oct 2015 17:13

Kilo sub seems to have 2 decks for people and 1 space bottom for batteries. Scorpene has only 1 deck for people.

http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/i ... way_lg.jpg

scorpene looks very compact and optimized kit occupying the least amount of space. the crew area will be probably more roomy with a higher ceiling also.

no photos seem to exist of scorpene interior from chile, malaysia or brazil.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 29 Oct 2015 17:42

Singha wrote:3 unwanted yantar FFG for a start

With Ukrainian power plants that are embargoed for Ru and may not be deliverable to India given the situation in eastern Ukraine.

Rusis really take us for fools and they have been right in the past.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Oct 2015 18:09

^^ IN wanted to build or buy 3 more talwar class long before the Ukraine crisis came , Way back in 2013 they mentioned they would buy or build in some private yard in India , Pipav was one once the last of 2nd batch gets delivered.

http://in.rbth.com/economics/2013/04/13 ... ates_23773

But building just 3 ships in Indian pvt yard with little experience is a perfect recipe for cost and time overruns when even experience hand like MDL ends up delaying ships with cost over run

IN is quite happy with Talwar class performance and seen from their statements it worked well for them , so they would end up buying the 3 built for Russia as Ukraine has banned Defence Export to Russia but since all our Ships of P-15 class and others use Ukraine Zorya engine they wont have any issue giving us the engine wheather we built it or just buy it.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 29 Oct 2015 18:35

IN has clearly stated that we will not import what we can build at home. It is not one time buy and forget but we have to maintain it throughout the life. And I am quite sure Rus want their share of blood, forget the days when we could buy something at a discounted price. Anyway, they will find a way so that we pay through the nose. So it is better to say no at the beginning then having a trouble at later point like our last aircraft carrier.

Just my opinion, I also don't buy the argument of buying 2 new kilo subs or discussions on any 3rd no-clear sub lease. These are all stories created by either media or import lobby. Anyway, we will find out the truth in coming month.

BharadwajV · Post by **BharadwajV** » 29 Oct 2015 19:07

This looks freaking awesome:

^^This now trumps my other favourite logo:

Imagining her spooking PN Ships(From the AllahuAckbar fame) just brings way too many giggles.
If I were the Ba(r)bur I would not mark myself with shitty unprofessional moves on the high seas during peace time for when war erupts, the only cries heard from the deck would be "Ya Arrah!"

BTW, whose namesake is "Kalvari" ?