Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05, 2015

[BharadwajV]

However, such a Paki policies means that there is no difference between jihadi army and terror orgs for Indian defense personnel on ground. Just to note.

The Indian Army has always maintained that the Pakistan Army works in total cohesion with the various Terror groups in aiding attacks against Indians and Indian installations. The Terror organisations are a front to the Army's operations on the East. A bit like Escobar (Pakistan Army) being the kingpin and his scumbag henchmen (The Jehadis) being the executors. The only difference I see is that Escobar promised wealth and fortune in this world and the Pakistani Army promises wealth and fortune in the next.
This is just one quote from the IA(2013):

"Although it is too early to prove the direct involvement of the Pakistani Army, the Border Action Team (BAT) was involved in helping the terrorist infiltration", Lieutenant General Gurmit Singh, commander of the army's Srinagar-based 15 Corps, told reporters here.

BAT is a group of 20 to 25 heavily armed and motivated guerrillas used by the Pakistani Army to facilitate infiltration across the border in Jammu and Kashmir, army sources said. Subsequent press statements by the army said around 15 of the guerrillas had been cordoned off and "eliminated".

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/paki ... 14025.html

There is no doubt that the IA treats every infiltrator Jehadi as an enemy combatant.
BRF was right in categorizing them into Uniformed and non-uniformed Jehadis.
Their guiding philosophy remains the same: Jehad fi Sabilillah.

On a happier note, we got a certain Abu 'sleeps with the fishes.... and probably copulates with them' Qasim.
This fvck is was responsible for a spate of attacks on both the IA and BSF.

[RajeshA]

Shiv, Thanks lot for the praise for developing the Kabila model to describe Pakistan.

As you all know I have been looking at various models of Pakistan since 1999.

Pak Military role in society

Then I discarded it to come up with the modernized Sultanate model where the head of the army and the state is a Sultan modernly called President. The Shura is called Senate etc...
But even this was inadequate.
So was reading about Thirty years war in Europe and Habsburgs. And the Treaty of Westphalia and how it ended religious wars in Europe.
How that led to modern nation-state theory and was used to channel nationalism emerging from the breakdown of Christianity and political Islam.

At same time I read many books on Muslim nationalism in British India and the rantings of Kasim Rizvi in Nizam's Hyderabad and evolution of Urdu by Bilkiz Latif. It then dawned on me that political Islam in India is a state in being and is really a roving camp with out any form roots.

Nizam's Hyderabad is the Mughal court that decamped from Delhi in the sunset of Mughal power to Aurangabad and then to Hyderabad.
So you see the Kabila sometimes develops what passes for high culture aka Ganga-Jamuni tehzeeb (naach gana, cuisine, Sufi songs, fake manners with daggers drawn etc.), but it never settles down.
Nation-state theory was force fed on this camp as part of the Partition and its a mis-fit.

Westphalian nation-state theory is good for the dusk of Europe and not for antediluvian Islamic state structure.


Even Erdogan Turkey is unraveling due to the kabila nature of Islamic state.

Well there is also the model of "Cow civilization" and the "Horse Civilization". I don't know if I've read it somewhere, or when I put it there, but for some reason it is there in my mind.

The Cow Civilization is based on production, progress and protection. The Horse Civilization is based on migration, conquest and plunder.

In the Cow Civilization there is respect for women for they are partners. In the Horse Civilization, men roam from one place to another and take women from wherever they can.

In pop culture, it was symbolized by the roving aliens and native humans in Independence Day.

[Prem]

Watch: How S-400 Triumph Air Defence missile can eradicate Pakistani terror

[Cosmo_R]

^^^Add the "Goat Civilization" to that and you've got real portability not to mention multiple use cases.

[johneeG]

Well there is also the model of "Cow civilization" and the "Horse Civilization". I don't know if I've read it somewhere, or when I put it there, but for some reason it is there in my mind.

The Cow Civilization is based on production, progress and protection. The Horse Civilization is based on migration, conquest and plunder.

In the Cow Civilization there is respect for women for they are partners. In the Horse Civilization, men roam from one place to another and take women from wherever they can.

In pop culture, it was symbolized by the roving aliens and native humans in Independence Day.

I think nomadic model applies to all malsI societies and not necessarily limited to Bakistan. Infact, I would say that Bakistan's problem is that it is sitting on a geography which is not conducive to nomadic civilization. If Bakistan was a desert, then their nomadic tactics would have been more successful.

I think the real issue about Bakiland should be: there may be innumerable kabilas or wannabe kabilas around the world who want to establish their own nation. But, they don't succeed in establishing it or they are unable to sustain it.
Bakiland has been able to do so. So, the question is what is the secret ingredient to their success?

Bakiland is able to sustain because of Amirkhan help. Simple. Take away Amirkhan help and Bakiland will not survive 2 months as a nation-state. The naivety of dheshi thinkers is that they want Amirkhan to destroy Bakiland. And people think that Amirkhan is stupid in not realizing the perfidy of Bakiland. No, Amirkhan is not stupid. They know much more than we know. They have chosen to prop up Bakiland. Its a deliberate choice. What does that mean? It means Bakiland is a vassal of Amirkhan.

----

I have heard many Baki commentators talk about 'Hindhu psyche'. I assume they mean 'small hearts'. I wonder who came up with this theme for the first time? I mean who invented this theory about 'hindhu psyche' or this a just variation on 'kafir psyche' thing?

[Falijee]

Re: Pervez Musharraf confession ............Truth Finally Out
Nothing new here ; please excuse, in advance, the long monologue below:

I would characterize Mush as a serial liar and a publicity hungry ex- general, who is always looking to stay in the limelight and try to disprove the old adage of "old soldiers never die, they just fade away .This is the same publicity hungry person, who could not resist and against advice called a press conference at the conclusion of the Agra Summit, just to grab headlines.
Now more comfortable in the Mohajir Culture of Karachi, (where he grew up and also now protected by MQM supporters), he has been giving press interviews (to local and foreign papers), making TV appearances, and playing a role as elder statesmen and trying to revive yet another political party. Knowing very well that the Fauj ( and his protege ) is back in the driver's seat and Ganja cannot take "revenge" on him and so he now does not have to produce a fake medical certificate to avoid a court appearance and a blow to his Enchendee . If he had remained in Chak Shehzad, he would surely been the target of Jihadis .
During his "power" days, he milked Massa to the hilt, even trading selected Jihadis to CIA for US Moolahs, under the rendition program ( for eg, "the so- called Daughter of Pakistan - the Al Qaeda Lady now jailed in US) and at the same time funding the Taliban and Kashmiri Jihadists.
His inflated ego and bombastic statements knows no limits. His boast that pre Kargil he once crossed the LOC to do a recon operation. And at other time, he brandished a revolver at a dinner party to boast of his Commando status.
To western audiences / readers/ viewers he comes across as a moderate, but he is an out and out Islamist, who cannot be trusted, as shown by his recent outburst

[Kashi]

Pakistani High Commissioner dodged the issue, a Paki trait when it comes to terrorism.

A trait he seems to share with the Congi Manish Tiwari, who instead of focussing on Musharraf's commnets seems to be stuck in his own Musharraf and chooses to do an equal-equal.

Congress leader Manish Tiwari said there is bitterness on both India and Pakistan due to Partition in which millions lost their lives. "There is a very deep and divisive hate-Pakistan sentiment in India and a hate-India sentiment in Pakistan and there are people on both sides of the divide who make capital out of it," he said.

[sanjaykumar]

Yes Indians' hatred of Musllims is such that they are keeping 200 million of them. And the Pakistani hatred of India is such that they insist India keep them.

[deejay]

Congress leader Manish Tiwari said there is bitterness on both India and Pakistan due to Partition in which millions lost their lives. "There is a very deep and divisive hate-Pakistan sentiment in India and a hate-India sentiment in Pakistan and there are people on both sides of the divide who make capital out of it," he said.

This statement propagates the eternal falsehood that I grew up with and it took a Tarek Fateh interview to make me see the reality. Pakis are not bitter at Partition. They have all the reasons to celebrate partition. No partition - no Pakistan.

[Kashi]

This statement propagates the eternal falsehood that I grew up with and it took a Tarek Fateh interview to make me see the reality. Pakis are not bitter at Partition. They have all the reasons to celebrate partition. No partition - no Pakistan.

Pakis are bitter at partition, because of how they and their overlords hoped the things would turn out- they wanted a bigger piece of the subcontinent, the expected India to collapse and disintegrate and themselves to flourish and pick and rule over the pieces, they expected to be far far ahead of the Yeendus in every sphere.

None of it has happened, rather they lost a large chunk of territory and are well on their way to losing the tenuous hold they command on large swathes of what remains..

This makes them bitter, jealous, angry, frustrated and murderous.

[Prem]

Will Pakistanis burst crackers if Modi loses Bihar polls?
Paki Thinking is irrelevant Mr Idiotaqvi

NEW DELHI: Will Pakistanis do a victory dance should the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) led by Prime Minister Narendra Modi lose the ongoing Bihar polls? According to BJP president Amit Shah, who addressed an election rally in Raxaul on Thursday, a loss for the party would set off firecrackers in Pakistan, reference to a common way of celebrating victory in India.Addressing a public meeting on the day Bihar finished its third round of polling in the five-stage election, Mr Shah asked the audience if they wanted crackers to go off in Pakistan? The audience said no.“Do you want the return of Jungle Raaj-Two? If by any mistake BJP loses, victory and defeat may be in Bihar but firecrackers will go off in Pakistan. Do you want crackers being burst in Pakistan?” His opponents said they would petition the Election Commission to stop the BJP’s increasingly divisive speeches.

[Anujan]

http://www.thefridaytimes.com/tft/grim- ... l-outlook/

Jihadi Sethi in TFT

Here’s Pakistan’s problem. First, it doesn’t have the will or ability to arm-twist the Afghan Taliban to do its bidding blindly on making a peace deal with Kabul and ending the war, especially after the eruption of a post-Mullah Omar power struggle in which each contending faction is compelled to take a war-like stance against Kabul and Washington for purposes of legitimacy in its rank and file. Second, it can’t afford to bomb the Haqqani network in its safe havens in Pakistan’s border areas and drive it into Afghanistan. That would cut its leverage-links with an important Afghan Taliban faction and also provoke it to join hands with the Pakistan Taliban sheltering in Afghanistan. This would exacerbate the internal security situation in Pakistan that the military has barely brought down to manageable proportions after a long and bloody campaign across the country. Third, it can’t afford to go after the various anti-India jihadi groups scattered across the country just now even if it wanted to because that would open up another dangerous front and dissipate the energy of the military against the Pakistan Taliban. The question of whether or not it should even think of serious action against the Lashkar i Taiba, etc, when India continues to sponsor terrorism in FATA, Karachi and Balochistan remains moot.

More Jihad for everyone. From Pakistan.

[Anujan]

http://www.dawn.com/news/1216377

Imran, Reham divorce with mutual consent

[Bhurishrava]

^^
Someone`s got link to that container video?! Should be out any moment now

[Bhurishrava]

http://www.dawn.com/news/1215960/turkey ... ee-of-cost

Turkey to provide 34 T-37 aircraft to Pakistan free of cost

[Falijee]

http://www.dawn.com/news/1215960/turkey-to-provide-34-t-37-aircraft-to-pakistan-free-of-cost

Turkey to provide 34 T-37 aircraft to Pakistan free of cost

Reader's comments are very interesting on this headlined news; some are saying that there is no "free lunch" (implying that there is a quid pro quo), others noting that even Bangla Desh -and Maasa -had got rid of these obsolete machines , and one poster sarcastically noting that just the other day, Edhi Foundation refused to accept one crore donation, but there is apparently no shame in accepting a "free gift", if it is from a Ummah brother !

[ArunK]

[youtube]watch?v=22RAz1V_y_A[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22RAz1V_y_A


This is an Interview given by Gen. Assad Durrani former head of the ISI in Oxford Union. It is in English of course. It is 42 mins long. Grab some beer and pop corn and watch. It you are hypertensive, then take your medication first.

Gen. Durrani lays bare all of ISI's activities. This has probably been seen by everyone here. But I dug it out after Musharaff's latest interview. This video should go on the first post of this thread if it has not already.

I think India should do whatever it can destroy this cancer of a country. I support an exponential increase in funds to buy these illiterate jihadis and turn them against their original sponsors. Kaante se Kaanta Nikaalna is the perfect policy.

What is more, this also explains why the *evidence* of RAW funding of MQM has disappeared from the Scotland Yard -- Assuming of course that something existed in the first place.

[shiv]

Congress leader Manish Tiwari said there is bitterness on both India and Pakistan due to Partition in which millions lost their lives. "There is a very deep and divisive hate-Pakistan sentiment in India and a hate-India sentiment in Pakistan and there are people on both sides of the divide who make capital out of it," he said.

This statement propagates the eternal falsehood that I grew up with and it took a Tarek Fateh interview to make me see the reality. Pakis are not bitter at Partition. They have all the reasons to celebrate partition. No partition - no Pakistan.

Manish Tewari is talking crap. It frightens me that at best he is ignorant and at worst he is a traitor.

[Rajdeep]

http://www.dawn.com/news/1216377

Imran, Reham divorce with mutual consent

According to the guy who broke this story , the divorce was done in total "islamic" style by sending email , now the question of whether there was one email with 3 times Talaaq written or 3 separate emails with Talaaq written once in each of them is up in the air.

He paid through his nose , gave her a home.

She was trying to remove him and take control of the party and once the "security idaare" gave a report on her to the Dim one , he divorced her immediately.

[sudhan]

http://www.dawn.com/news/1215960/turkey ... ee-of-cost

Turkey to provide 34 T-37 aircraft to Pakistan free of cost

Please go through the comments for a healthy mix of optimism, disbelief, exasperation and good ol' paki delusions.

Phor For example:

@Ammar dear bro.these fighter can be used for techtical pupose. more light and agile fighter for dog fighting. it will even give a run to su 35 fighter

Good move. Gaddani ship breaking could not be restored but we have started new scrap industry.

@Arsalan Friend I know that nothing is free but do you know anything about Turkey, Turkey is Pakistan's best friend.

and a pinch of realism

Another obsolete aircraft added to inventory....good going!

Gives one a good idea about the mindset of avg packees..

[deejay]

This statement propagates the eternal falsehood that I grew up with and it took a Tarek Fateh interview to make me see the reality. Pakis are not bitter at Partition. They have all the reasons to celebrate partition. No partition - no Pakistan.

Pakis are bitter at partition, because of how they and their overlords hoped the things would turn out- they wanted a bigger piece of the subcontinent, the expected India to collapse and disintegrate and themselves to flourish and pick and rule over the pieces, they expected to be far far ahead of the Yeendus in every sphere.

None of it has happened, rather they lost a large chunk of territory and are well on their way to losing the tenuous hold they command on large swathes of what remains..

This makes them bitter, jealous, angry, frustrated and murderous.

Kashi sa'ab, the view that Pakis are unhappy with Partition because India prospered maybe exactly what the Pakis want us to believe. I was of similar view until I saw a Tarek Fatah interview where he explains how Partition benefited a lot of the rich and the ruling class today. To the aam abduls it just created a state for Islam but there were many of the elites from UP whose half the family stayed back in India and half the family left to rule and enjoy in Pakistan - best of both the worlds. (I spent some time trying to find this interview but ran out of patience. I think it is one of those Toronto studio interviews with Tahir Gora - Tag TV)

A lot of the locals of then newly partitioned Pakistan chased the Hindus and Sikhs to India, grabbed their property and many times their women. This created a new class of rich Pakjabis, Sindhis, etc and there is no way that Partition was a sad moment for them. Yes, they would feel jealous of India's development but that does not make them feel the same sadness and nostalgia that our WKK types would like us to believe.

Those looters, rapists and murderers actually saw an opportunity of wealth, slaves and power in partition while we see it as a dismemberment of our country. The emotions for the people of either side of the border on partition is very different though the Pakis may loudly say some other thing, their actual beliefs are very well masked (so what's new?).

If you ask me, in my limited knowledge, I know of no other country that was created post WW2 (or maybe ever) with lesser 'struggle' and 'sacrifice' than Pakistan. Compare with the time, persistence and cost in terms of lives and money, India had to go though, the creation of Pakistan is virtually a 'dole' handed out to the Muslim elites of UP. I do not see how, they can feel the misery w.r.t. partition as us. They may be wistful of better areas that they aspired but did not get, or of missed opportunities post partition but they certainly do not regret partition. For them it was essential or there would be no Pakistan.

[Abhay_S]

Kashi sa'ab, the view that Pakis are unhappy with Partition because India prospered maybe exactly what the Pakis want us to believe. I was of similar view until I saw a Tarek Fatah interview where he explains how Partition benefited a lot of the rich and the ruling class today. To the aam abduls it just created a state for Islam but there were many of the elites from UP whose half the family stayed back in India and half the family left to rule and enjoy in Pakistan - best of both the worlds. (I spent some time trying to find this interview but ran out of patience. I think it is one of those Toronto studio interviews with Tahir Gora - Tag TV)

A lot of the locals of then newly partitioned Pakistan chased the Hindus and Sikhs to India, grabbed their property and many times their women. This created a new class of rich Pakjabis, Sindhis, etc and there is no way that Partition was a sad moment for them. Yes, they would feel jealous of India's development but that does not make them feel the same sadness and nostalgia that our WKK types would like us to believe.

Those looters, rapists and murderers actually saw an opportunity of wealth, slaves and power in partition while we see it as a dismemberment of our country. The emotions for the people of either side of the border on partition is very different though the Pakis may loudly say some other thing, their actual beliefs are very well masked (so what's new?).

If you ask me, in my limited knowledge, I know of no other country that was created post WW2 (or maybe ever) with lesser 'struggle' and 'sacrifice' than Pakistan. Compare with the time, persistence and cost in terms of lives and money, India had to go though, the creation of Pakistan is virtually a 'dole' handed out to the Muslim elites of UP. I do not see how, they can feel the misery w.r.t. partition as us. They may be wistful of better areas that they aspired but did not get, or of missed opportunities post partition but they certainly do not regret partition. For them it was essential or there would be no Pakistan.

http://www.thefridaytimes.com/tft/a-jou ... er-punjab/

MS Gill gives a data point in this article.

The next day we travelled to Faisalabad, the Lyallpur of the British. It was the richest canal colony, heavily pioneered by Sikhs, and with a new well laid out district city, complete with a clock tower. At the end of March, I saw miles and miles of rich wheat fields. Our people lost them, and got little land of poor quality land in the East, while those who went west became “land rich”. I heard stories of people from Jallandhar, bastis, who had little land, grabbing hundreds of acres there. That is life. They are going to have a bumper harvest in the West, but unlike in the East, there is no minimum support price, nor any compulsory procurement. The government will buy some grain, very likely that too from the ‘vadheras’. -

[Falijee]

Imran-Reham divorce not a mutual consent: Arif Nizami

Code: Select all

LAHORE (Web Desk) – Imran Khan divorced Reham Khan through an email, renowned journalist Arif Nizami claimed in another shocking revelation on Friday.

“Two days ago, Imran Khan and Reham Khan had a fight which led to the divorce,” Mr Nizami said.

“It was more physical as Reham Khan raised hand against Imran Khan.

“Reham Khan wanted stature equal to Imran Khan, and it was feared she might have poisoned her husband,” Mr Nizami added.

The senior journalist, who broke the divorce news almost a month ago, has said the former couple parted their ways due to personal reasons, not the political ones.

According to Mr Nizami, the pair were facing trouble since their marriage as Imran Khan’s sons and sisters were not happy with the wedding. A fake degree scandal surrounding Reham Khan also fueled the tension between the former couple.

Read more: “I stand by my information”: Arif Nizami on Imran-Reham troubled marriage

He went to add that the divorce was not agreed on mutual consent.

Standing firm on his stance, Mr Nizami said that the marriage occurred long before January 7.

This theory ( divorce not agreed on mutual consent ) appears more plausible

[ramana]

Are Immy the Dimmy's problems Pakistan's strategic problems?

[A_Gupta]

Najam Sethi:
http://www.thefridaytimes.com/tft/grim- ... l-outlook/

Third, it can’t afford to go after the various anti-India jihadi groups scattered across the country just now even if it wanted to because that would open up another dangerous front and dissipate the energy of the military against the Pakistan Taliban. The question of whether or not it should even think of serious action against the Lashkar i Taiba, etc, when India continues to sponsor terrorism in FATA, Karachi and Balochistan remains moot. - See more at: http://www.thefridaytimes.com/tft/grim- ... 7BUub.dpuf

[Prem]

Any threat to Abba Saudi Arabia will evoke a strong response from Pakistan: COASS
Nye Barre Abba China se Tho Pooch Ley

Rawalpindi: Chief of Army Staff (COAS), General Raheel Sharif visited National Counter Terrorism Center, Pabbi near Jhelum today and witnessed the culmination of Pak– Saudi Joint Training Exercise Al – Shihab.Al – Shihab focused on counter terrorism training of the special operation forces of Pakistan and Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, which included cordon and search operations, airdropping and heli lifting of special forces for operations against terrorist’s acts and their hideouts.On the occasion, General Raheel Sharif said that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia enjoy strong and brotherly relations, which have a long history of deep rooted cooperation. While meeting the participating troops, he appreciated their dedication, motivation and professionalism."This exercise signifies the joint effort of our two nations against terrorism and Insha’Allah we will defeat this menace in all its forms and manifestations," he said. The Army Chief reiterated that any threat to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Saudi Arabia will evoke a strong response from Pakistan.A six member high level Saudi military delegation headed by General Mufleh Bin Saleem Al – Otaibi, Commander Special Forces of Saudi Arabia was also present on the occasion.

[johneeG]

Kashi sa'ab, the view that Pakis are unhappy with Partition because India prospered maybe exactly what the Pakis want us to believe. I was of similar view until I saw a Tarek Fatah interview where he explains how Partition benefited a lot of the rich and the ruling class today. To the aam abduls it just created a state for Islam but there were many of the elites from UP whose half the family stayed back in India and half the family left to rule and enjoy in Pakistan - best of both the worlds. (I spent some time trying to find this interview but ran out of patience. I think it is one of those Toronto studio interviews with Tahir Gora - Tag TV)

A lot of the locals of then newly partitioned Pakistan chased the Hindus and Sikhs to India, grabbed their property and many times their women. This created a new class of rich Pakjabis, Sindhis, etc and there is no way that Partition was a sad moment for them. Yes, they would feel jealous of India's development but that does not make them feel the same sadness and nostalgia that our WKK types would like us to believe.

Those looters, rapists and murderers actually saw an opportunity of wealth, slaves and power in partition while we see it as a dismemberment of our country. The emotions for the people of either side of the border on partition is very different though the Pakis may loudly say some other thing, their actual beliefs are very well masked (so what's new?).

If you ask me, in my limited knowledge, I know of no other country that was created post WW2 (or maybe ever) with lesser 'struggle' and 'sacrifice' than Pakistan. Compare with the time, persistence and cost in terms of lives and money, India had to go though, the creation of Pakistan is virtually a 'dole' handed out to the Muslim elites of UP. I do not see how, they can feel the misery w.r.t. partition as us. They may be wistful of better areas that they aspired but did not get, or of missed opportunities post partition but they certainly do not regret partition. For them it was essential or there would be no Pakistan.

Great post, saar.

But, there is next point also: most people who get rich with sudden wealth without doing anything to earn it, generally tend to lose it because they don't know how to manage it.

Thats why thieves keep going back to steal. Now, these elite pakjabis who became rich overnight, they don't know a productive way of making money. So, how is that nation able to survive? On doles? But who would give a dole out to pakjabis? Who allowed these pakjabis to set them up in the first place? And in return for what?

[Prem]

Paki are not unhappy with partition but angry with the fact that retaliation happened from the other side with much more fury and efficiency than they expected. Defeat after defeat given by Indians had made them bitter and insane. Military weakness of their is now openly discussed. Economic defeat now breaking their back and international recognition of indian brain power will mentally bury them for good.We constantly need to enforce the message that Paki are dumb, stupid people lacking common sense and basic human intelligence. It will be real sad if Pakjabis die with even minimum positive hope, feeling or prospect. Victory must be total and in all spectrums.

[Shanu]

http://www.dawn.com/news/1215960/turkey ... ee-of-cost

Turkey to provide 34 T-37 aircraft to Pakistan free of cost

A little bit of time spent on Wiki yields these nuggets..

Turkish Air Force got 65 Cessna T-37C aircrafts in total. So what is this C version, if you ask..

T-37C
Two-seat basic jet trainer, light-attack aircraft, fitted with two weapons pylons, one under each wing; 269 built in total.

When was it built? sometime between 1961 and 1975.

In 1961, Cessna began developing a modest enhancement of the T-37 for use as a weapons trainer. The new variant, the T-37C, was intended for export and could be used for light attack duties if required....T-37 production ended in 1975.

What is its current status? Retired from the USA by 2009. And as one commentator in the 'Dawn' site mentioned even Bangladesh has got rid of them..so spares might be a real pain.

So why is this chest beating about free stuff? Bakistan already has 63 of them, including 20 delivered in 2008 (just before the US retired it). So the SDRE problem of spares might have caught on with TFTAs and the Turks being good businessmen, used it to get some free soldiers for their caliphate fight while doing a stock clearing sale.

[member_29089]

Congress leader Manish Tiwari said there is bitterness on both India and Pakistan due to Partition in which millions lost their lives. "There is a very deep and divisive hate-Pakistan sentiment in India and a hate-India sentiment in Pakistan and there are people on both sides of the divide who make capital out of it," he said.

This statement propagates the eternal falsehood that I grew up with and it took a Tarek Fateh interview to make me see the reality. Pakis are not bitter at Partition. They have all the reasons to celebrate partition. No partition - no Pakistan.

Pakis were better after partition (1947) but are bitter after partition (1971) but they better not be too bitter because the next partition is coming soon

[johneeG]

Shanu ji,
nice find.

GunterH saar,
true.

----
BRF really needs a thanks button. So many nice posts which can be appreciated without replying in a post.

[vishvak]

Paki are not unhappy with partition but angry with the fact that retaliation happened from the other side with much more fury and efficiency than they expected. Defeat after defeat given by Indians had made them bitter and insane. Military weakness of their is now openly discussed. Economic defeat now breaking their back and international recognition of indian brain power will mentally bury them for good.We constantly need to enforce the message that Paki are dumb, stupid people lacking common sense and basic human intelligence. It will be real sad if Pakjabis die with even minimum positive hope, feeling or prospect. Victory must be total and in all spectrums.

Exactly, Indians don't get defeated unless cheated (land grab, attack at night, murder, riots, ethnic cleansing..) and Pakis don't win without it. This is why IA needs to have all things sorted out quick because then Pakis will have nothing to do other than being phony till hardware becomes obsolete or reaches end of life.

[ramana]

Any threat to Abba Saudi Arabia will evoke a strong response from Pakistan: COASS
Nye Barre Abba China se Tho Pooch Ley

Rawalpindi: Chief of Army Staff (COAS), General Raheel Sharif visited National Counter Terrorism Center, Pabbi near Jhelum today and witnessed the culmination of Pak– Saudi Joint Training Exercise Al – Shihab.Al – Shihab focused on counter terrorism training of the special operation forces of Pakistan and Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, which included cordon and search operations, airdropping and heli lifting of special forces for operations against terrorist’s acts and their hideouts.On the occasion, General Raheel Sharif said that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia enjoy strong and brotherly relations, which have a long history of deep rooted cooperation. While meeting the participating troops, he appreciated their dedication, motivation and professionalism."This exercise signifies the joint effort of our two nations against terrorism and Insha’Allah we will defeat this menace in all its forms and manifestations," he said. The Army Chief reiterated that any threat to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Saudi Arabia will evoke a strong response from Pakistan.A six member high level Saudi military delegation headed by General Mufleh Bin Saleem Al – Otaibi, Commander Special Forces of Saudi Arabia was also present on the occasion.

Isn't that an oxymoron? Pak and KSA are already joint terrorists. How will they fight jointly against themselves?

Looks like the two headed bird in Sindbad the sailor.

[Prem]

Haramistani Link

Win Pak-India nuke war?

THAT Pakistan may first use nuclear weapons in a future war with India was announced last week by Foreign Secretary Aizaz Chaudhry. Coming just two days before Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s Oct 22 visit to Washington, this could be considered a reiteration of the army’s well-known stance. But, significantly it came from the Foreign Office rather than GHQ or Strategic Plans Division. Coming from both ends of the power spectrum, this confirms that Pakistan has drastically shifted its nuclear posture.In the late 1980s, Pakistan had viewed nuclear weapons very differently; they were the last-ditch means to deter a possible nuclear attack by India. But Pakistan now says it intends to use low-yield nuclear bombs, also called tactical nuclear weapons, to forestall the possible advance of Indian troops into Pakistan under India’s ‘Cold Start’ operational doctrine.
Floated by Gen Deepak Kapoor in 2010, Cold Start calls for cutting Pakistan into “salami slices” as punishment for hosting yet another Mumbai-style terrorist attack inside India. It assumes that this limited action would not provoke a nuclear exchange. India strenuously denies that such a doctrine is official or that it has been made operational.This denial cut no ice across the border. In 2011 a successful test of the Nasr “shoot and scoot” short-ranged missile was announced by ISPR, the Pakistan military’s official voice. Ensconced inside a multiple-barrelled mobile launcher the four 60-kilometre-range missiles are said to be tipped with nuclear warheads each roughly one-tenth the size of a Hiroshima-sized weapon. Pakistan says these tactical weapons will not destabilise the current balance or pose significant command and control problems, a claim that many believe as incorrect.
Pakistan is not the first country tempted by nuclear force multipliers. Nor, as claimed by ISPR, is making small warheads a significant technical feat. In fact in the 1950s the Americans had developed even smaller ones with sub-kiloton yields, and placed them on the Davy Crockett recoilless guns deployed at forward positions along the Turkey-USSR border. Wars are fought to be won, not to be lost. So how will Pakistan’s new weapons help us win a war? This fundamental question is never even touched. But let us assume their use in a post Mumbai-II scenario. For every (small) mushroom cloud on Pakistani territory, roughly a dozen or more Indian main battle tanks and armoured vehicles would be destroyed. After many mushrooms, the invasion would stop dead in its tracks and a few thousand Indian troops would be killed. Pakistan would decisively win a battle.

But then what? With the nuclear threshold crossed for the first time since 1945, India would face one of two options: to fight on or flee. Which it will choose is impossible to predict because much will depend upon the extant political and military circumstances, as well as the personalities of the military and political leaders then in office.Official Indian policy calls for massive retaliation. In 2013, reacting officially to Pakistan, Shyam Saran, the head of the National Security Advisory Board (the apex body concerned with security matters) declared that, “India will not be the first to use nuclear weapons, but if it is attacked with such weapons, it would engage in nuclear retaliation which will be massive and designed to inflict unacceptable damage on its adversary. The label on a nuclear weapon used for attacking India, strategic or tactical, is irrelevant from the Indian perspective”.This is plain stupid. It violates the principle of proportionate retaliation and pushes aside the barriers to hell. But could the NSAB be bluffing? It may be that if push comes to shove, India will not actually launch its large nuclear weapons. The sensible instinct of self-preservation might somehow prevail, and the subcontinent live to see another morning.More likely is that in the heat of the moment, reckless passions will rage and caution will take a backseat. A tit-for-tat exchange could continue until every single weapon, small and large, is used up on either side. It is difficult to imagine how any war termination mechanism could work even if, by some miracle, the nuclear command and control centres remain intact. Tactical nukes will not make Pakistan more secure. This dangerous programme should be immediately abandoned. Nukes may win a battle for us but at the cost of losing Pakistan. Instead our security lies in ensuring that Pakistan’s territory is not used for launching terror attacks upon our neighbours. We must explicitly renounce the use of covert war to liberate Kashmir — a fact hidden from none and recently admitted to by Gen Musharraf.
As for India: your security depends upon adopting a less belligerent attitude towards Pakistan, stopping a menacing military build-up that is spooking all your neighbours, and realising that respect is earned through economic rather than military strength.These are tall orders for both countries. Any optimism is currently unwarranted.

[Vipul]

Watch this:

http://www.awaztoday.tv/News-Talk-Shows ... -2015.aspx

Dim Wit got physically abused by his wife.She tried to poison him, wanted to control the party, took money from PTI leaders and when Imran asked her to return the money got aggressive with him. She has moved to London and is planning to join the labor party in UK and is eyeing to stand and win against another paki origin lady - Sayeeda warsi. She is being financed in the UK by the PTI candidate who lost the recent by-election (NA-122) and is now defying Imran Khan.
It has been more then 3 weeks since the divorce and it was being kept a secret. But PTI media cell suddenly made this announcement of divorce as they got information that Reham Khan was planning to hold a press conference in London and make some damaging statements. (Imran no longer a mard-e-momin )

[shiv]

Haramistani Link
As for India: your security depends upon adopting a less belligerent attitude towards Pakistan, stopping a menacing military build-up that is spooking all your neighbours, and realising that respect is earned through economic rather than military strength.

Bullshit

Less belligerence towards Pakistan=more terrorism and aggression from shitistan because they see "Hindu India" as weak

More belligerence towards Pakistan - howls and cries from Shitistan that India should make peace.

Guess where India's security lies.

Hudoodboy is a Paki to the core and he has seen my video

[uddu]

Pakistanis are really scared. They have come to terms with reality. The Genie that they let out of the bottle cannot be put back now. So they know what's in store for them. Hence the easiest way is to threaten and buy some more time, thinking their last trick works atleast for some time.

[Pulikeshi]

^^^

"Any optimism is currently unwarranted." as the Paki quotes...

The Military Junta that controls the rump state. There is in no real danger to them, if anything they are becoming even more essential.
They are also a tactical NWS now!

Economics & Politics do not matter - those have been outsourced to lower cost providers of cheap services...
The Junta monopolizes Religion and Power - all they have to do is sell services to the highest bidder and keep the Religious fundoos focussed on India. How hard can that be? Nothing is going to change.

If anything the Pakistanis (real the Military Junta) is more full of it!
No thanks to the 3.5 ~

[ramana]

Shiv India does not have low yield weapons. Only high yield. So retaliation will be with what's available which happens to be high yield. So Pak will be glasses if they use anything.

[Prem]

Shiv India does not have low yield weapons. Only high yield. So retaliation will be with what's available which happens to be high yield. So Pak will be glasses if they use anything.

For each T90 Paki loose a town. It's a good bargain.