MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

member_28985 · Post by **member_28985** » 01 Oct 2015 05:29

How does Arjun Mk2 compare with Armata T-14?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 Oct 2015 05:55

ashbhee wrote:How does Arjun Mk2 compare with Armata T-14?

MK2? The MK1 beat it.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 01 Oct 2015 06:55

nachiket wrote: Well maybe THAT would convince the IA of the need for buying Arjuns instead of tincans and phantom FMBTs.

Many times, I wish the pakis had bought M1A1s when they evaluated them in the 80's. We would have seen multiple IA regiments operating Arjuns by now. Or maybe Leopard 2s. You can never tell with the IA.

The Pakistanis are going to induct a better Chinese tank. The VT-4 or MBT-3000. Surely no match for the T-72's and T-90's with us.

The firing accuracy is pretty decent. No where comparable to the T-72's which has to stop and fire and even then misses the target, as seen from the Tank Biathlon videos. Only tank that can match anything fielded against us in terms of Protection, mobility and fire power with great accuracy is Arjun. Since the Pakistani's fielded a better tank, we can expect order for Arjun's on a massive scale similar to the Tejas, Akash, Dhruv and Pinaka orders.

There are about 2400 or so T-72's in service. If we replace these with 1000 Arjun MK-II starting 2016 the production can run at 200 tanks per year upto 2021/22. During these 6 years let DRDO improve on the MK-II and build the MK-III, with weight reduction inside and outside of tank with lighter materials, more powerful engine, automatic loading/three member crew, active protection etc. Things that can be done in these 6 years time frame need to be taken and prototype created and tested. Production of 1000 MK-III can start from 2022 till 2028 can do a long way in addressing the issue of outdated tanks in service. The technology/ improvements done on the MK-III can be upgraded and made into the FMBT/Arjun MK-IV and Arjun MK-V and the production of the same can start from 2028 to replace the remaining 1600 T-90's in service. If we start now, we can have a completely modernized Armour by 2030, that's 15 years from now.

Hobbes · Post by **Hobbes** » 01 Oct 2015 07:05

Not going to happen. The Army will trot out all the old arguments about the Arjun and repeat them ad nauseam. They will then point to the Armata as the logical choice to counter the VT-4.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 01 Oct 2015 07:36

Hobbes wrote:Not going to happen. The Army will trot out all the old arguments about the Arjun and repeat them ad nauseam. They will then point to the Armata as the logical choice to counter the VT-4.

The Army seems to be changing for the good. The decision to induct indigenous rifles which is superior to the imported ones itself is an indicator of the changes happening.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 01 Oct 2015 08:38

In the end it is all political leadership and wipping the MOD baboons to do the right thing. One Baboons are in line almost everything will fall in line including top brass of IA or IAF. Hopefully MII pitch makes everyone fall in line.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 01 Oct 2015 12:42

If the last reports are true,then the MK-2 has achieved almost all of its planned specs/reqs..Every nation indulges in protectionism of some sort.Therefore,even if the A-2 is more expensive in comparison with the T-90,it should be ordered as much as Avadi can produce/yr. However,given the 4500 MBT fig. given by some sources as what the IA wants by 2020,we will need around 200 MBTs/yr to meet that fig.I seriously doubt that Avadi can raise its prod. rate to more than 100/yr,and it has 3 programmes running.Arjun,T-90 prod., and T-72 upgrades. As said before many a time,we should reduce T-72 upgrades and use the money saved for A-2s.The legacy T-72s could be converted into spl. AVs instead/reserves.

One is not sure about recent reports that the IJT has been scrapped and that the IAF is going in for a new two-trainer regime for its pilots,as many frontline air forces use just two trainers.If true,there must also be some savings here which may be transferred to the Rafale buy,more urgently needed. The same policy could be used for A-2 production/acquisition reducing T-72 upgrades. The number of T-90s in the inventory/on the anvil is a fait accompli. The IA could use both T-90s and Arjuns to good effect depending upon terrain/transportability.I seriously doubt that the Sino-Pak MBTs will be the equal of the IA's armour.What we lack though is a light/scout tank with good amphib capabilities for riverine terrain (plus mountains),like the PT-76 which was a great success in '71 in BDesh/E-Pak.

As far as the Armata is concerned,its too early to compare both,barring external details and the smaller crew ,plus the automated turret.The T-14 appears to have more self-defence systems and has heavier/larger skirt armour.Other details of both will be classified .No idea too about costs . Perhaps a comparison could be made with the shelved T-95,of which there may be more details available.Some of the tech on the T-14 is said to have come from the T-95.

srai · Post by **srai** » 02 Oct 2015 22:18

After some good news on the LCA Mk.1 orders (100 units), can the RM deliver the same on Arjun MBT Mk.2? How about that 500 units to break even and indigenize more components (as DRDO has been calling out for)?

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 02 Oct 2015 23:22

uddu wrote:old news
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 26801.aspx

“Bogota has expressed interest in the MBT Arjun. The Colombian army has an immediate requirement for 10 tanks to be followed up with the induction of another 100 over five years,” said a senior official, on the condition of anonymity.

The competitors for the Colombian order include France (MBT Leclerc), US (MIAI Abram), Israel (Sabra), Korea (KI AI) and China.

India’s reluctance to export military equipment could tip the scales in the favour of international suppliers. The ministry of external affairs had recently turned down a Bolivian request for a line of credit to buy seven Dhruv advanced light helicopters worth over Rs 300 crore from Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.

This is old news and today may be many other countries will be interested in purchasing this tank.

Even when afghan govt asked for T-72 tanks, we could have given them Arjuns. Rather we asked russians to provide them with tin-cans.

member_28985 · Post by **member_28985** » 03 Oct 2015 00:10

rajsunder wrote:
Even when afghan govt asked for T-72 tanks, we could have given them Arjuns. Rather we asked russians to provide them with tin-cans.

If Afghan army gets Arjuns and if the fall to hands of Taliban, won't Pak and hence China get hold of it?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Oct 2015 10:44

Karzai was begging us for stuff.Ghani is trying to keep our role v.limited.At the last intl. conf. on Af.,India was deliberately not invited while outside interlopers were. After the fall of Kunduz and the attempt to win it back,perhaps he should take a harder look at the Taliban,aka ISI and look at india more positively.

India supposedly financed arms to Af. through Russia,to ward off criticism from the Pakis earlier.I would not however give them the Arjun.It will end up in Pak or China.Remember the famous saying,"you can't buy an Afghan,only rent him"?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Oct 2015 17:43

like how Modiji dealt Tejas,
the Arjun Mk2 needs some big bolts.

the pakfa will be reduced like Rafale deal to about 50/60., and be done with it!
T90s will look only for upgrade and spares.. perhaps to shut up few old brain afsars.

Arjun Mk2
hip heep hurray!

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 08 Oct 2015 19:18

What ??

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Oct 2015 20:22

if we believe this
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htarm/ ... 30904.aspx

21 regiments with 62 each.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 04 Nov 2015 13:37

Cross Post (courtesy Austin) - Ajrun MBT Mark 2 Deployed very Soon

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1926806

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 04 Nov 2015 18:09

^^ That is SanjeevJino's blog. Maybe he can tell where he got the info from.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 04 Nov 2015 18:37

How the hell? ... It could happen. I am about to cry with joy

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 04 Nov 2015 19:09

The date of the post reads '11/02/2015'... is that 11th Feb 2015 ?

Also

The Arjun mark 2 don't have the automatic reloading system. A disadvantage of the tank, Because of the manual loading Arjun has limited fire rate.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 04 Nov 2015 19:19

300 is still less.

Want 1000

adityadange · Post by **adityadange** » 04 Nov 2015 20:39

Manish_P
Most likely american date format. so 2nd nov. The comments below read 2 days ago, 1 day ago etc.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Nov 2015 20:42

IA will ask for 50 ton variant Mk3. so, (if true) just take the 300 for now and just do it, while work on the advanced lightweight composites to reduce weight.

heck ya! i am even thinking super composites with nanotech that may use graphene, spectras to spider silks. midhani will have field day when it arrives. just telling onlee

member_24684 · Post by **member_24684** » 05 Nov 2015 08:02

Thakur_B wrote:^^ That is SanjeevJino's blog. Maybe he can tell where he got the info from.

aww...

First lot of 40 improved Arjun Mk-2 indigenous Main Battle Tank to be fully operational soon: @manoharparrikar. Trials in advanced stage

https://twitter.com/thaparvishal/status ... 6801054720

get the 300 number from some other place ..!!

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 05 Nov 2015 08:17

Boss, I could cry here...someone get me a tissue...sniff! sniff!....This is too much happiness to take at one go.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 05 Nov 2015 08:37

Are the floodgates about to open... for indigenous systems that is?

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 05 Nov 2015 08:59

Can we wait for some official news? Otherwise it will be massive KLPD.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 05 Nov 2015 15:38

So 40 MK-2 are produced ? Already? Difficult to believe.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 05 Nov 2015 23:48

Surely not ... you think we would have heard all the balle balle and coconut smashing had the wheels be grinding on the factory floor.
Can someone please verify this.... as someone above said I am about to break into tears and do the bhangra at the same time.
Han Jee ?

member_24684 · Post by **member_24684** » 06 Nov 2015 19:39

Khalsa wrote:Surely not ... you think we would have heard all the balle balle and coconut smashing had the wheels be grinding on the factory floor.
Can someone please verify this.... as someone above said I am about to break into tears and do the bhangra at the same time.
Han Jee ?

Plijj it's not me .. It's him Vishal Thaper

member_27581 · Post by **member_27581** » 06 Nov 2015 21:57

SajeevJino wrote:
Khalsa wrote:Surely not ... you think we would have heard all the balle balle and coconut smashing had the wheels be grinding on the factory floor.
Can someone please verify this.... as someone above said I am about to break into tears and do the bhangra at the same time.
Han Jee ?
Plijj it's not me .. It's him Vishal Thaper

by any chance this vishal thaper related to karan thapar?

Found this about him on livefist. "http://www.livefistdefence.com/2014/06/ ... ditch.html"

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 28 Nov 2015 07:22

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 927598.cms

Sources said, the automotive trials will test the new suspension of the tank designed to handle weight up to 70 tonne. The engine will be from the same German parentage. This testing trial has been taking place as part of army exercise since the last one month.

Source revealed that the ongoing trails of Arjun Mark-II in Pokhran field firing range will mainly focus on 19 parametres after army's recommendation. A successful trial at Pokharan firing range would give a green signal for building 124 Arjun Mark-II tanks at the Heavy Vehicles Factory in Avadi. These will supplement the 124 Arjun Mark-I tanks already in service.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 28 Nov 2015 07:27

Does anyone believe that the trials will be "successful" ? They will not be.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 28 Nov 2015 07:44

The Arjun is dead! Now efforts are on to destroy any future local tank development .

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 28 Nov 2015 10:30

what is the point of this dog and pony show for a measly 124 orders ? DRDO should simply cut-off all interactions with DGMF and leave them to their own devices. also stop ALL support to arjun origin sub-systems used to prop up the tin cans.

since the DGMF has time and again made it clear that being of Indian origin is a demerit that outweighs any and all technical merits DRDO shouldn't saddle their (IA's) shiny tin-cans with inferior Indian items.

perhaps DGMF would seek russian soldiers for operating the tanks next.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 28 Nov 2015 10:40

Let's not make it as a vs vs issue. There were some elements in the Army who tried the sabotage during the earlier times. It was found out and exposed. Today i do believe there is a change in overall leadership in the Army which tends to support indigenous equipment and the govt is also Pro-India

So let's wait and watch for the best. If Arjun do come out great in the tests let's expect the Govt to assure the Army of the funds for say 500 follow-on ArjunMK-II and the Army going for it. This time i feel the project is going to be a great success.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 28 Nov 2015 11:48

it's not a vs issue, it's a national security issue.

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 28 Nov 2015 13:22

Upgraded Arjun Mark-II tanks undergoing trial at Pokhran

A major modification involves equipping the new version of the tank with missile firing capability. The DRDO aims at firing missiles accurately up to a range of 2,000 km.

What?

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 28 Nov 2015 13:27

Someone (the DDM) read some BR post and actually put it in the article. Guys please be careful with the humor, tomorrow someone might complain that Arjun MK2 can only travel subsonic.

member_27581 · Post by **member_27581** » 28 Nov 2015 13:44

prahaar wrote: Someone (the DDM) read some BR post and actually put it in the article.

reminds me of comments on livefist upon FMBT..some gems were, min speed of mach2, own AESA, Air to ground refueling from IL78

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Nov 2015 20:50

Please watch. Doval gives reasons why MBTs not a priority
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5btV4a5Ie_g

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 28 Nov 2015 20:54

I also agree that MBT is not a priority but then this principle should apply to T-90s and not a few Arjuns.