LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 02 Dec 2015 09:56

I think that cost of LCA "package" by HAL is around USD 60-70 million dollars per LCA. So 100 LCA MK-1A should cost around USD 4-5 Billion for Fly away aircraft and USD 10 Billion for the "package". If LCA is to be supplied over 10 years and cost of R&D, assembly line, ground support, repair and maintenance is built in along with escalation then 100 LCA may cost around USD 30 Billion.

member_27581 · Post by **member_27581** » 02 Dec 2015 14:54

http://sputniknews.com/asia/20151130/10 ... force.html

NEW DELHI (Sputnik) – Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and French President Francois Hollande agreed to supply the Indian Air Force with 36 French-built Rafale multirole fighters in April. Initially India planned to buy 126 Rafale jets to modernize its air force.
"We are looking forward to receiving the Rafales. Apart from this, there are other aircraft we are looking at. We will also be getting more Su-30MKIs. An order has also been placed for 120 Tejas Mk-IIs. There are many plans and things will change in the next 10-12 years," Raha said on Sunday, as quoted by The Economic Times.

confusion between MK1A or Mk2?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Dec 2015 15:05

No confusion. Its Mk1A only. MK2 is long time coming. Where did 120 come from?

40 LCA in initial configuration.
100 LCA in Mk1A configuration. Design complete in 2017. Enter production in 2019.

Rate of 16 aircraft per year means 6 years of production leading to 2024 which is just in time for Mk2.

srai · Post by **srai** » 02 Dec 2015 20:06

^^^
minor nitpick

I think it's only 20 in Mk1 (IOC-2) now. The original 20 Mk1 FOC has been lumped together with 80 Mk2 as 100 Mk1A. Total order (Mk1 and Mk1A) stands at 120 units.

member_27581 · Post by **member_27581** » 02 Dec 2015 22:06

ramana wrote:No confusion. Its Mk1A only. MK2 is long time coming. Where did 120 come from?

40 LCA in initial configuration.
100 LCA in Mk1A configuration. Design complete in 2017. Enter production in 2019.

Rate of 16 aircraft per year means 6 years of production leading to 2024 which is just in time for Mk2.

Ramana sir, not challenging you (as it has been for long on last few pages), but what surprises me is that they are freely quoting ACM. I would assume that ACM would be aware and remembering the type and number of planes coming, or am I missing something so obvious in the quote.

srai · Post by **srai** » 02 Dec 2015 22:54

^^^

I think they misquoted him. Watch the ACM presentation. He says something along the lines of that names are not important, call it Mk1/A/2 or whatever, but the order placed is for 120 units inclusive of the current lot in production. They just want LCAs. This is a change from before where it was 20 Mk.1 IOC2, 20 Mk.1 FOC and 80 Mk.2. Now it has been lumped together as 120 LCA units total order. This allows HAL to ramp up production capacity to 16 units/year.

As far as R&D and production plans go, the first lot of 20 are in Mk.1 IOC-2 standard (although there was talk of changing to Mk.1 FOC after first 4 units). This will take until 2018 to complete and at which point production capacity will be around 12 units/year. Since the newly designated Mk.1A (fulfills most of the IAF requirements using existing body/engines) is being planned to be design ready by 2017 and enter production by 2019, the production switch to that is being talked about post first lot delivery completion. So the remaining 100 units will be produced as Mk.1A. If there are delays in Mk.1A, it is possible production could continue with Mk.1 FOC since now there seems to be some degree of flexibility from the IAF.

srai · Post by **srai** » 03 Dec 2015 04:22

sivab wrote:
Decks have been cleared for the country's largest ever defence order, over RS 2 trillion for 100 Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas.
Surprised nobody commented on this number. Rs 2 trillion is US$30 billion or $300 million per LCA.

LCA is as expensive as the Rafale, which is bit cheaper but more capable. Why not get more Rafales instead

srai · Post by **srai** » 03 Dec 2015 04:59

Well written article!

INDIA's Indigenous fighter aircarft programme: what we learnt from Past

By Ranjan Kumar Parida
Tuesday, November 10, 2015

The criticisms are not new, the development is slow and they say time is constant here like a black hole circling over India. Many shortfalls and many waivers but still to see the bird on IAF’s hand, yes am talking about HAL Tejas (LCA), will take you back to 1960’s with up and downs in Indian aerospace industry and finally a glimpse of hope with a big order and future development plan.

Major world powers have capability to design, develop and manufacture fighter aircraft indigenously. Technically, this would include all major components - aero-engines, radar, aircraft design, metallurgy, weapons and sensors. Currently only USA, Russia, France and UK have these capabilities and are followed closely by Germany, Italy, China and Sweden.

Background
Good start but poor follow-up has continued to challenge India’s desire to master aerospace technology. India’s desire to build its own fighter jet began well with the HF-24 Marut program. The project was approved in 1957 and the first prototype flew in 1961 - a mere four years later. The first squadron went operational in 1967. However, the program encountered a premature end in 1982 due to the short-sightedness of the IAF, Government and HAL. The political leadership and the bureaucracy displayed inexperience and strategic carelessness during HF-24 Marut development and operational life. The end result was withering away of precious knowledge gained over the development. During the same period, HAL shifted its focus to production of MiG-21s under license.

The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) decision was taken in 1983 in order to replace aging MiG-21s manufactured during 1970's and 80's, as most of them were expected to be phased out in the 1990s. The indigenous design and development of LCA was sanctioned in 1983 and Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) was constituted in June 1984. IAF issued requirement in October 1985 with a projected requirement of 220 aircrafts (200 fighters and 20 trainers), to be inducted by 1994.

Why LCA, as opposed to MCAs (Rafale, Eurofighter) or HCAs (Sukhoi 30 Mki)?
This concept of LCA has been a source of much study and research to achieve performance requirements at affordable cost. This became more feasible in the jet age as emphasis shifted to getting the same performance with relatively lower thrust engine. The Gnat aircraft, which the IAF flew effectively in 1965 and 1971 wars, was a light weight fighter whose performance in its category was excellent, at minimal cost. This left a lasting impression on IAF and hence the decision for LCA.

What went wrong? Or did anything go wrong, at all?
Prima facie, the perceived delay in the LCA project can be blamed on the lack of co-ordination between user (IAF), designer (ADA), manufacturer (HAL) and the Government, which made it impossible to deliver the LCA project in time. And one wrong was done more over the other – clubbing of Kaveri engine project with LCA. Kaveri engine got delayed because of India’s lack of experience in building turbofan engines. India did tie-ups with unreliable American companies at a time of not-so-good relations, and nuclear tests resulted in sanctions, which pushed back the project by few more years. From LCA decision being taken 1983, till the final operational clearance in Q1 2016 is 33 years – which seems very long. But after removing 4 years for funding gap (from 1989, when project definition was finished, till 1993, no funds were made available to LCA project) and 4 more for sanction issues, LCA project took 25 years. Ideally, world over a fighter jet project takes more than 20 years.

To build a fourth generation fighter aircraft from scratch with a countrywide aerospace ecosystem and research, testing and certification facilities in less than three decades is, by any standards, remarkable technology leapfrog. Anywhere in the world it would draw generous praise but in India, thanks to media attention with questionable intent. Even while mentioning reasons for delays in the program, DM Manohar Parikar agreed in Parliament that lack of trained engineers, infrastructure, including test facilities had played a major role.

How good is HAL Tejas (LCA) and where it headed from here?
Tejas test pilots continue to believe that the aircraft is more versatile than MiG-29 (primarily built for air-to-air combat), MiG-27 and Jaguar (primarily ground strike aircraft), and all variants of the MiG-21. They even say it can take on the Pakistan Air Force’s early F-16 variants and outclass the Sino-Pakistani JF-17 Thunder. Deliveries of combat standard units of Tejas Mk-I began on 17 January 2015, with final operational clearance (FOC) expected Q1 2016. In a major breakthrough IAF recently ordered 120 HAL Tejas. IAF wants the final version should have advanced (AESA) radar, air to air refueling, BVR missiles and electronic jammers to block enemy radars.

Future Developments
ADA is also working on an improved version, HAL Tejas Mk-II, with greater capability based on Indian Navy’s prolonged requirements. Looking into higher drag on water surface HAL Tejas Mk-II will be powered with GE F-414 engines that produce 98kN of peak thrust. Apart from engine, Tejas Mk-II will feature upgraded avionics, more advanced radar and longer combat radius.

Meanwhile a nation surrounded with two aggressive neighbors can’t afford to have just fourth generation fighter. The Chinese today are flying two fifth generation fighter prototypes, one of the fighter J-20 going to be in series production from next year onwards and intended to export to friendly nations. While India realized the situation back in 2008 and started a JV with Russia to develop fifth generation fighter (FGFA) but lack of co-ordination between the nations stalled the project sometime back and IAF now wants to buy Russian version of FGFA T-50 on Government to Government agreement.

Meanwhile IAF with his local partner ADA wants to develop an indigenous fifth generation fighter (AMCA). At the moment the project is out of definition phase and entering to funding phase. AMCA is a much bigger program compared to LCA, in LCA the country leapfrogged from nowhere to fourth generation fighter aircraft. In case of AMCA while the LCA platform will help us, however, our scientist needs to crack number crucial technology like advance radar, Stealth technology and high power engine, currently USA and Russia possesses the technology and China somehow successful. To make the project successful we need larger Research and development base with serious funding upfront.

Now, the good news
In the process of building an indigenous fighter aircraft, India has almost solved the puzzle of fighter aircraft building. With favorable conditions, and proper planning, the successor of Kaveri engines will hopefully be ready by the time India is ready to produce the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA). The LCA project has built India’s capabilities in fighter aircraft production from ground up. India can repeat the same success story with AMCA, only this time faster. As they say, it is only hard the first time!

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 03 Dec 2015 08:23

LCA's good safety record can be a case in study: David Lindley
http://tarmak007.blogspot.in/2015/12/lc ... se-in.html

"With no major incidents during its development stage means the platform has great safety standards," he says.

vina · Post by **vina** » 03 Dec 2015 15:17

Japan's ATX-D stealth prototype ready to fly. Also, Japan is developing an engine with 50% higher thrust than GE F414. We should get into collaboration with the Japanese on the engine for the AMCA as both the F3 and the AMCA will be similar sized planes with similar thrust requirements.

http://aviationweek.com/awin/japan-aims ... nt-2016-17

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 03 Dec 2015 18:58

vina wrote:Japan's ATX-D stealth prototype ready to fly. Also, Japan is developing an engine with 50% higher thrust than GE F414. We should get into collaboration with the Japanese on the engine for the AMCA as both the F3 and the AMCA will be similar sized planes with similar thrust requirements.

http://aviationweek.com/awin/japan-aims ... nt-2016-17

The F3 is a Raptor sized aircraft. ATD-X is a downscaled demonstator program.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 03 Dec 2015 20:36

The current ATD-X is essentially a technology development program aimed at giving the Japanese government options going into the early part of next decade. What they want to do is advanced their internal capability to a level where they can take a go-no-go decision by say 2018 or 2019. After that the actual engineering, design and development portion of the F3 starts. There have been conflicting press reports about what they are looking for in an F3. Initially they wanted F-22 like performance but more recent statements have hinted at trading away speed for loiter and range. Both these have different trades that will affect design decisions and technical risk and the ATD-X may not mitigate all of it. There is no certainty that they will go ahead with the F3 as many factors are likely to play a role like risk, cost, time frames etc. There economy is not doing all that well and they are going to be making the F-35 at home and have a vested interest in that FACO facility. I'll guess that they will reluctantly give a nod to advanced development funding in 2018, but shift the program more towards an unmanned vehicle of some sort. It also depends upon what the final decision is on the two US 6th generation fighters and whether one of the services is open to collaborations or not. There is a balance that will want to strike to preserve both the technical base and industrial base. The F3 benefits the former but given at least a decade of development will be second to the F-35 as far as industrial benefit goes. An unmanned combat vehicle is something that they simply cant go out and shop for and is likely to have a high impact on both technical and industrial base as it creates capacity to create capability that is unlikely to be available from outside sources.

BharadwajV · Post by **BharadwajV** » 04 Dec 2015 19:25

http://idrw.org/dassault-to-assist-with ... more-80053
No other media outlets reporting this, atm.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 05 Dec 2015 08:38

SaiK wrote:The might as well get the AMCA base version if ETA 2024.

Are they tailgating me?

http://idrw.org/lca-navy-mk-2-is-green- ... more-80905
With India's 5th generation aircraft also in the pipeline and will be developed in parallel to LCA MK-2 variant, IAF is spoiled for choice now and may skip Airforce MK-2 variant for AMCA and Pak-FA if 5th generation projects stick to their deadlines, but a clear picture will likely emerge in 2017-18 time frame

Karan M wrote:>>first of all it is IDRW report which means you can safely ignore it.
he he
http://www.onewildandpreciouslife.ie/wp ... Laughs.jpg

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 05 Dec 2015 11:23

Heh. IDRW took the media reports of Dassault helping with air intake, landing gear and correlated it to LCA Navy Mk2. No surprise there..

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 05 Dec 2015 11:48

someone needs to post timeline of Mtheswarans shameless sabotage comments and his joiining Reliance

maybe someone can be goaded to investigate what he has made out of it

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 05 Dec 2015 12:03

^+1 These slimy profiteers must be exposed in public.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 05 Dec 2015 17:01

BharadwajV · Post by **BharadwajV** » 07 Dec 2015 17:23

Good news, gentlemen.
Tejas replaces the Ajeet at Minsk Square(Didn't know the name as of yesterday

)
Before:

After:

More pictures, here:http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/sli ... 072483.cms

member_27581 · Post by **member_27581** » 08 Dec 2015 02:32

It's a proud day for all the people that believed in it. I hope I live long enough to see AMCA and successful pilotless drones from India displayed in major cities of India.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 08 Dec 2015 06:40

So Tejas square is born.

disha · Post by **disha** » 08 Dec 2015 06:42

I like the way they are riding Tejas. Total SDRE style double savari

More pictures, here:http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/sli ... 072483.cms[/quote]

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Dec 2015 08:22

They could have made a nice cockpit mockup for kids and the public to get in to get a fell of the replica. A reference manual made-up copy to understand the complexity of the design and the support it is giving to IAF and IN. And definitely a video presentation inside those OLED panels to display an A2S ops or A2A ops would be a fantastic experience.

A Rs. 25 charge for 5 minutes is also not a bad idea as well

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 08 Dec 2015 11:35

BharadwajV wrote:Good news, gentlemen.
Tejas replaces the Ajeet at Minsk Square(Didn't know the name as of yesterday )

After:

Wish the photographer had taken a proper sideview of the LCA at this point. The aerofoil shape of the wing root is nicely visible there. Supercritical-like airfoil with supersonic cambering is what I can see there. But proper side view would have been awesome.

They should put more such models in other cities. And of other desi defense systems too.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 08 Dec 2015 13:10

nileshjr wrote: Wish the photographer had taken a proper sideview of the LCA at this point. The aerofoil shape of the wing root is nicely visible there. Supercritical-like airfoil with supersonic cambering is what I can see there. But proper side view would have been awesome.

They should put more such models in other cities. And of other desi defense systems too.

Once were warriors...

Just for the record, I'd rather Nilesh ji's wish came true.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 08 Dec 2015 13:36

My reply to Fali Major

because on this day , we decided that a tooled copy of the angreezi machine is no longer as good as the original desi design produced
its the day we were proud of our babus for getting the paper work out of the way
its the day we were proud of the dhoti wallas for tooling on the stuff
its the day we were proud of countless scientists for working on countless designs and redesigns
its the day we were proud of many IAF officers who did not seek to become AOC or Air Vice Marshall or COAS and took an alternative path
its the day we were proud of many Naval Officers who took their philosophy and lit a fire to it of designing and making it at home.
its the day I was proud of my PM when he named the plane and rallied behind it.

its the day we are proud of something else than cricket..... (yes I really hate cricket... its a complete waste... look at the number of man hours wasted)

I am more proud of the Dhoti walla slugging it at the hangar right now.... in HAL then any cricketer ever.

Tell the good Major to Join the Bharat Rakshak

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 08 Dec 2015 14:07

Khalsa wrote:My reply to Fali Major

because on this day , we decided that a tooled copy of the angreezi machine is no longer as good as the original desi design produced
its the day we were proud of our babus for getting the paper work out of the way
its the day we were proud of the dhoti wallas for tooling on the stuff
its the day we were proud of countless scientists for working on countless designs and redesigns
its the day we were proud of many IAF officers who did not seek to become AOC or Air Vice Marshall or COAS and took an alternative path
its the day we were proud of many Naval Officers who took their philosophy and lit a fire to it of designing and making it at home.
its the day I was proud of my PM when he named the plane and rallied behind it.

its the day we are proud of something else than cricket..... (yes I really hate cricket... its a complete waste... look at the number of man hours wasted)

I am more proud of the Dhoti walla slugging it at the hangar right now.... in HAL then any cricketer ever.

Tell the good Major to Join the Bharat Rakshak

I'd rather not. Best he stays out of here.

BharadwajV · Post by **BharadwajV** » 08 Dec 2015 14:11

Sad to see the comment by such a great Indian Helicopter pilot(If it is indeed him and the account is verified)
Tejas brought glory to our country the moment it took off in 2001, the moment the HOBS R73E shot off the pylon guided by a state of the art HMDS, the moment we saw it dropping LGB's that we so wanted on our Mirages/Jags/Migs since day one, the moment the 404IN20 cranked up after a cold night at Leh and the moment she shot off a ski jump and into a climb which was better than what was aimed for.
30 years from now when we'll be building fighters that can operate in Indian conditions the way no other off the shelf aircraft can, we'll have this little 3 Legged Cheetah to thank for(And Team LCA, of course).

jayasimha · Post by **jayasimha** » 08 Dec 2015 14:19

http://www.aerofi.in/news

I attended a seminar of aerospace industry attended by Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major PVSM, AVSM, VM, SrC (Retd) delivered a powerful and inspiring address.

He told our scientist and def. organisations. to "think" and "work" for something what we need 30 - 40 years later rather that spend resources on current requirement since "we already have all that we have today"...... phew..

jayasimha · Post by **jayasimha** » 08 Dec 2015 14:24

correction

He told our scientist and def. organisations. to "think" and "work" for something what we need 30 - 40 years later rather that spend resources on current requirement since "we already have all that we need today".......

in a josh to type,, i made a mistake

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 08 Dec 2015 14:55

PratikDas wrote:
Once were warriors...

This is hilarious in a sad way. Its not even worth replying this. God save India from such parochial people!!

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 08 Dec 2015 15:24

nileshjr wrote: This is hilarious in a sad way. Its not even worth replying this. God save India from such parochial people!!

You see, unlike the uber-patriots on this forum, it is exactly people like him who've been putting their lives on line to save India. It was HIM who proposed to bomb targets in Pakistan after 26/11 and was cut-out by MMS...Had MMS actually agreed to it, it is HE who would've led the IAF retribution operations. And led IAF in war if it ever came to that! But then, all and sundry who do not share the same POV as the uber-patriot BRFites are fair targets.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 08 Dec 2015 16:18

rohitvats wrote:
nileshjr wrote: This is hilarious in a sad way. Its not even worth replying this. God save India from such parochial people!!
You see, unlike the uber-patriots on this forum, it is exactly people like him who've been putting their lives on line to save India. It was HIM who proposed to bomb targets in Pakistan after 26/11 and was cut-out by MMS...Had MMS actually agreed to it, it is HE who would've led the IAF retribution operations. And led IAF in war if it ever came to that! But then, all and sundry who do not share the same POV as the uber-patriot BRFites are fair targets.

With all due respect to HIM, Rohit... He might be awesome as an IAF soldier, but he is grossly wrong here. Putting something on display is not just IAF's right. Others also put their lives for nation in some sense and they also have some, if not equal, right to display what they think "brought glory" to them and to the nation. This is why I said "parochial". Just because he has done a great service to the nation does not give him right to run down others' efforts. LCA is a glorious achievement for us. Whats wrong in displaying it in public?? It will only project positive image in aam junta and might even inspire some youngsters.

Frankly I don't even see the need for him to react on this issue. It was such petty thing as far as IAF is concerned. His words carry weight and he should thus use it more cautiously. What message this one post will send to uninformed or rather ill-informed public?? I found the post hilarious for its content and sad for it came from a respected ex-IAF.

Also, you know what Rohit, if someone from armed forces says something stupid and people like me (aam abdul) laugh at it, we don't really deride his contribution to the nation or his sacrifices. He is still hailed for what he has done. But a stupid thing is a stupid thing.

No more on this from my side. Since it does not contribute to anything to this forum.

srai · Post by **srai** » 08 Dec 2015 16:26

Patriotism has many flavors. Service to the nation can be done in a myriad of ways.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 08 Dec 2015 16:32

nileshjr wrote:
nileshjr wrote: This is hilarious in a sad way. Its not even worth replying this. God save India from such parochial people!!
With all due respect to HIM, Rohit... He might be awesome as an IAF soldier, but he is grossly wrong here.

<SNIP>

Also, you know what Rohit, if someone from armed forces says something stupid and people like me (aam abdul) laugh at it, we don't really deride his contribution to the nation or his sacrifices. He is still hailed for what he has done. But a stupid thing is a stupid thing. No more on this from my side. Since it does not contribute to anything to this forum.

Your long winded answer aside, how exactly do you reconcile the two bold parts - both written by you?

You've every right to not agree with him. Please go ahead and do that. He is not above criticism or anyone from Services. Past or present. But what's with the language?

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 08 Dec 2015 16:44

I believe that IAF has successfully killed off LCA (though I would love to be proved wrong).

20 LCA MK-1 IOC have been pushed off to LCA MK-1 FOC. FOC has itself been burdened down with excess requirements like Air to Air refueling to delay the FOC.

20 LCA MK-1 FOC has been pushed off to LCA Mk-1A with new requirement of re-arranging the internal equipment, AESA radar etc to make it difficult to induct.

LCA Mk-2 has been probably cancelled to promote the AMCA (with no real funding being allotted to AMCA)

srai · Post by **srai** » 08 Dec 2015 17:30

^^^

There's an imaginary finish line somewhere in there; it's just that it is always a few steps too far to reach it.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 08 Dec 2015 18:49

Gentle folks of the kind and passionate forum, are you sure that ACM (Retd) Fali H. Major Shaurya Chakra, Vayu Sena Medal, Ati Vishisht Seva Medal, Param Vishisht Seva Medal posted a comment on the Tarmak 007 ~~blog~~ twitter handle?

Jumping to conclusion and attacking the ACM will serve no purpose other than show how high strung we are. Wait, be sure he posted and then comment. Just my two cents.

The image of Fali H Major is a google search away. Given how LCA has been attacked, many can impersonate to score a point or just to pull legs and start a flame war.

Knowing what little I do of the retired ACM, I know he is proud of his decorations, specially the Gallantry ones. I am yet to see him write his name anywhere without his decorations. That does not mean I am sure this is not him, but still there is doubt. Please to ascertain before being profane.

By the way a twitter handle search of Fali Major threw up more than one search.

Edit: Correction and addition

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 08 Dec 2015 20:00

Whoever that was, FH Major or not, a very petty comment. And it is parochial & very - hope he realizes the LCA represents the aspirations of many nameless Indians who have contributed to it and it can serve as an inspiration to many more.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 08 Dec 2015 20:16

Karan M wrote:Whoever that was, FH Major or not, a very petty comment. And it is parochial & very - hope he realizes the LCA represents the aspirations of many nameless Indians who have contributed to it and it can serve as an inspiration to many more.

No disagreements with that Karan M. LCA has been a stupendous Indian effort overcoming unbelievable odds of technology, funding, international sanctions, poor support and politics. LCA needs to be celebrated and such stupid bias, IMO, needs to be ignored.

If anything, the comment a sign of frustration from those who opposed the LCA and lost. Let us gloat over their loss.