Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2015

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 11 Dec 2015 01:28

ramana wrote:sudeepj, This DCH move will have many ramifications in India and then Pakistan and USA. Despite Indian pardon in advance he is still in US custody.
Also approver status has its own constraints.

Ramana ji, DCH's plea bargain in the US contained terms that would not allow him to be extradited and tried in any other country. This is the next best thing to get the testimony of a conspirator on the record in an Indian court, that Pakistani agencies and specific named individuals participated in an attack on India. This can then be the basis for subsequent legal Indian and international action.

If Headly testifies that he conspired with Hafiz Saeed or XYZ high ranking ISI official, imagine the consequences.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hea ... ia.27s_NIA

Headley's arrest and guilty plea got close media attention in India, with the Home Minister Palaniappan Chidambaram addressing it in frequent questions from reporters. Chidambaram said the United States authorities have shared "significant information" about the case. U.S. assistant secretary of state Robert O. Blake, Jr. said India would have "full access" to question Headley in the United States, although the possibility of extraditing him to India appears to be precluded by Headley's plea agreement.[41][42] Chidambaram said they would continue to try to get the man extradited

At the end of the day, open war against Pak is going to be a difficult undertaking with the current status of our energy resource, human development, science/tech state etc. Till such time as you get your capabilities into shape, talk to some and hit some others.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 11 Dec 2015 04:14

Economist rag weighs in, TIFWIW:

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/2168 ... epend-what

The reasons for Mr Modi’s change of heart are unclear. One factor, some think, may be the politics of the wider region. Mr Modi is committed to attending a summit in Islamabad in September next year of the South Asian Association for Regional Co-operation (SAARC), an eight-country grouping; its rules state that all decisions must be taken by unanimity, so the summit would have been cancelled if Mr Modi had not patched things up with Pakistan by then. Another reason may be Western pressure, particularly from America, which has long worried about the lack of dialogue between the two nuclear-armed rivals.

sukhish · Post by **sukhish** » 11 Dec 2015 04:35

well for once I never expected this at all, not from modi GOI. all that 56 inch chest thumping has been reduced to 26 inch. pakis played the game well. also obama administration being democrats as they are are always willing to talk to anyone, so no wonder they are forcing india to talk to pak. I mean what would have happened if we never talked to pak atleast for some time. what's the compulsion. uncle will withdraw FDI from india or something else ?

sukhish · Post by **sukhish** » 11 Dec 2015 04:44

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 128673.cms
how come GOI never protested it

sukhish · Post by **sukhish** » 11 Dec 2015 04:47

complete bend over backwards to US

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 11 Dec 2015 04:53

NPR-Did Religious School Play A Role In Tashfeen Malik Becoming Radicalized? - with Ayesha Siddiqui

Mentions the possibility of LeT having recruited Tashfeen Malik during her time at Al-Huda , Multan.

arun · Post by **arun** » 11 Dec 2015 05:57

X Posted from the Oppression Of Minorities In Pakistan thread.

Kashif N. Chaudhry, who originates in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and belongs to the minority Ahmadi aka Ahmadiyya sect of Mohammaddenism claims in Huffington Post from the safety of the US that what Mohammaddens in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan are already doing to fellow Mohammadden Ahmadi’s is similar to what US politician Donald Trump (and Marco Rubio and Bill Carson) is proposing to do unto adherents of Mohammaddenism in the US. However keeping in line with the Mohammadden tradition of practising Taqiyyah to gull Non-Mohammaddens, Kashif N. Chaudhury is silent about the very significant difference that Mohammaddens in the US and elsewhere are indulging in Mohammadden Religion motivated violence targeting host populations unlike Ahmadi’s and other Religious and Sectarian Minorities in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, elsewhere in Mohammadden majority countries and indeed anywhere else in the world:

So Pakistani fellows, everything we hate about Trump, we are already doing - and much more - to the Ahmadi Muslims in Pakistan. How is it fair then to decry Islamophobia in the West, while turning a blind eye to the rampant - and far more putrid - anti-Ahmadi bigotry in Pakistan? This only makes us a bunch of hypocrites, a dishonest people. We dislike Trump but fail to realize that ours is a very huuuuuuuge Trumpistan.

Next time we speak of how minorities are treated in the West, let us also reflect into our own attitudes towards our own minority communities.

From here:

Is Pakistan Just a Huge Trumpistan?

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 11 Dec 2015 06:46

CRamS wrote:
Dipanker wrote: Personally I have not seen any evidence of any "overwhelming pressure" put on India by US in the current situation.
What is your analysis on what led to this turn around from our side? Give me your opinion.

What is your analysis that leads you to say there has been a turnaround?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 11 Dec 2015 06:49

sukhish wrote:http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 128673.cms
how come GOI never protested it

Next time, kindly give some indication what link is about. Secondly, show a link the the offending map. In short, do a little work. Or draw the conclusion that some newbie journo is trying to get something into print, or that ET is being malicious.

habal · Post by **habal** » 11 Dec 2015 07:05

sudeepj wrote:Till such time as you get your capabilities into shape, talk to some and hit some others.

sorry to intervene. but from your above sentence I got the impression of an ongoing kabbaddi match. Who are we going to hit while talking to some others ?

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 11 Dec 2015 07:15

nirav wrote:I'm yet to see anyone claim govts actions/strategies as "chanakian" either on this or the political dhagaa.

I fail to understand why posters find the need to repeatedly invoke "chanakya" at every instance.

Kya bigada hai chanakya ne aapka hain ?!

OMG you just did inspite of your aversion of others doing it, do you shoot yourself in the foot....often?

I must ask "Kya bigada hai MAD ne aapka hain?!"

partha · Post by **partha** » 11 Dec 2015 07:33

Consider the following facts:-

1. Since Modi Govt took over, every meeting with Pakistan has been mostly about terrorism. Even the latest joint statement says comprehensive dialogue is conditional based on progress in Mumbai 26/11 trial in Pakistan
2. Pardoning Headley and making him a witness
3. Not agreeing to cricket
4. Disproportionate response along the border to Paki provocations
5. Chhota Rajan extradition and auction of Dawood's properties

I get a feeling there is a plan to deal with Pakistan. I too may have felt a u-turn from Modi Govt but looking at the facts closely, I don't think govt has made an u-turn. I wish Modi clearly communicates with the nation from Parliament or through Mann Ki Baat or even Twitter that terrorism is the main agenda of talks with Pakistan. Time and again his govt has surprisingly failed in communication allowing his many detractors to set and control the narrative. I think we have to give Modi and co more time w.r.t Pakistan. For 10 years we tried to see chanakian angle in moves made by MMS govt but in the end it turned out MMS really thought he could make peace with Pakistan. We just have to wait and see what Modi does.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 11 Dec 2015 08:03

Pak-India talks hinge on terrorism caveat
(Paki waking up )
''

SLAMABAD: The Pakistan-India agreement on resumption of dialogue on bilateral disputes may have provided an opening for a thaw in an otherwise frosty relationship, but an inbuilt caveat and the unspoken subtext could make progress towards the start of talks challenging.The two countries, helped by US, UK and Germany, made quick progress in the past 10 days from the ice-breaker in Paris to an agreement in Islamabad on resuming dialogue after a hiatus of nearly two years.But a clearer picture of how the process would play out emerges from a closer reading of the second and third paras of the joint statement on the resumption of talks.“The Indian side was assured of the steps being taken to expedite the early conclusion of the Mumbai trial. Both sides, accordingly, agreed to a Comprehensive Bilateral Dialogue…” the statement read.A source privy to the negotiations and the drafting of the agreement pointed out the centrality of the insertion of the word “accordingly” in the statement and noted that the commencement of the process was predicated on Pakistan fulfilling its commitment regarding the speedy conclusion of the trial of Mumbai attack suspects.The snail-paced trial by a Pakistani court of the seven men accused of involvement in the 2008 Mumbai terror attack has been one of the major sticking points in the relationship, with New Delhi regularly accusing Islamabad of insincerity.The inclusion of the condition regarding conclusion of the Mumbai trial, the source explained, was done under international pressure.“This would be a major obstacle, let’s see how it is addressed,” the source observed.In the meantime, the Pakistani government has already begun to face domestic backlash for the omission of Samjhota Express from the joint statement – an issue that it had, in the past, always flagged alongside Mumbai.The two terrorism incidents could not be kept together because of their different contexts, the source said, adding that there was more on cooperation against terrorism than is apparent in the statement.
The Indian government’s decision on resumption of cricket with Pakistan would, meanwhile, be another key point. The decision is expected in a couple of days. “A decision in favour of a bilateral series could further improve the atmosphere,” the source maintained.Responding to a question about the cricket series, Ms Swaraj had said: “Read the joint statement”. The statement does not contain anything on this issue, but her remark may have been a reference to the terrorism caveat.Asked about the impressions over apparent progress, the source said it was a breakthrough in the sense that the Indian government, which has been avoiding any bilateral engagement with Pakistan, agreed to resume dialogue, but the challenge would be in moving forward. “No need to be too excited about it,” he added.

arun · Post by **arun** » 11 Dec 2015 08:25

saip wrote:Why did SA lie for its Munna? To bring equal equal into this terrorism crap. They claimed Malik visited India. And now,

No record to show US shooter visited India: Govt

thorough check run by Indian intelligence agencies on immigration or visa records has failed to show up any trace of California mass shooting suspect Tashfeen Malik's visit to India in 2013, as alleged by a Saudi interior ministry official.

"There is no way a Pakistani citizen can escape the scanner as the checks are much stringent in their case. Malik may have either not visited at all or transited through an Indian airport on a connecting flight,

PTI reports that the Saudi ~~Arabians~~ Barbarian’s have been asked by our Government to provide details of female Pakistani National Mohammadden Terrorist Tashfeen Malik’s alleged travel to India. The Saudi ~~Arabians~~ Barbarian’s have still not responded perhaps because sharing travel plans of a female with non-mahram male Kaafirs is somehow Un-Wahabbi. For good measure the US has also been asked by our Government to share details of Pakistani Nationals Tashfeen Malik’s alleged travel to India:

Saudi Arabia yet to share details of on Pakistani woman's India travel

arun · Post by **arun** » 11 Dec 2015 08:33

shiv wrote:
saip wrote:Why did SA lie for its Munna? To bring equal equal into this terrorism crap. They claimed Malik visited India. And now,
Not going to bother to search for it but I think the report that Saudi stated that Touchfeeln had been in India came from a Paki source. Pakistani media are habituated to lying. I admit that all media lie - but Pakistani media stand out.

As far as I can make out information alleging Tahfeen Malik had visited India did not come from a source in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. New York Times names the source as "Maj. Gen. Mansour Turki, a spokesman for the Saudi Interior Ministry" via a text message:

Maj. Gen. Mansour Turki, a spokesman for the Saudi Interior Ministry, said via text message on Saturday that Ms. Malik had visited the kingdom twice. In 2008, she arrived in June from Pakistan to visit her father and stayed for about nine weeks before returning to Pakistan, General Turki said.

Then, in 2013, she arrived on June 8, from Pakistan, and departed for India on Oct. 6 of the same year, General Turki said.

He gave her full name as Tashfeen Malik Gulzarahmed Malik and said his office did not know whether her father was still in the kingdom.

Discrepancies Emerge Over Where Tashfeen Malik Grew Up

williams · Post by **williams** » 11 Dec 2015 09:03

partha wrote:Consider the following facts:-

1. Since Modi Govt took over, every meeting with Pakistan has been mostly about terrorism. Even the latest joint statement says comprehensive dialogue is conditional based on progress in Mumbai 26/11 trial in Pakistan
2. Pardoning Headley and making him a witness
3. Not agreeing to cricket
4. Disproportionate response along the border to Paki provocations
5. Chhota Rajan extradition and auction of Dawood's properties

I get a feeling there is a plan to deal with Pakistan. I too may have felt a u-turn from Modi Govt but looking at the facts carefully, I don't think govt has made an u-turn. I wish Modi clearly communicates with the nation from Parliament or through Mann Ki Baat or even Twitter that terrorism is the main agenda of talks with Pakistan. Time and again his govt has surprisingly failed in communication allowing his many detractors to set and control the narrative. I think we have to give Modi and co more time w.r.t Pakistan. For 10 years we tried to see chanakian angle in moves made by MMS govt but in the end it turned out MMS really thought he could make peace with Pakistan. We just have to wait and see what Modi does.

Partha Sir,
All your points are right, and there is nothing to worry. Also, there are three other points that we need to consider.

1. No more back channel nonsense. Govt directly deals with the Pakis and clear cut conditions are put forth.
2. Modi is not going to explain his moves to anybody. This avoids unnecessary media circus and leaks that make our move predictable.
3. The final point is going to be the unpredictability factor. Pakis and their 3.5 friends are not going to understand our moves.

We cannot compare this with MMS because Modi is not an MQ puppet. There is Doval in all these moves, and we know how he thinks. RSS/Nationalist combine will not let Modi blink. In fact, I am very surprised that there is muted response from RSS/Nationalist. It tells me some of them were briefed already. There is not going to be any Cricket just watch.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 11 Dec 2015 11:03

KLNMurthy wrote: What is your analysis that leads you to say there has been a turnaround?

If you have the patience, go back and read my posts since the talks resumption announcement was made.

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 11 Dec 2015 11:09

partha wrote:We just have to wait and see what Modi does.

One cannot fight one's neighbors - that is the commandment!
One cannot break them - there is no fortitude in the cowardly Inju
One can onlee wait and onlee watch - this has been a proven method

So this has nothing to do with them... The one knows not the needs...
The game is quite different, so only time will tell.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 11 Dec 2015 12:50

India, Pakistan foreign secretaries may meet in Delhi within 2 months - Dipanjan Roy Chaudhry, ToI

The foreign secretaries of India and Pakistan are expected to meet in Delhi in the next two months to firm up the modalities of the comprehensive bilateral dialogue that was announced on Wednesday following the ministerial level meet in Islamabad. The two countries hope to pick up the threads of a similar dialogue that was stalled in 2013 after tension along the Line of Control.

Foreign minister Sushma Swaraj and Pakistan foreign affairs adviser Sartaj Aziz decided on the dialogue and directed the foreign secretaries to work out the modalities and schedule of the meetings under this new peace process.

People familiar with the developments indicated that foreign secretary S Jaishankar and his counterpart Aizaz Ahmad Chaudhry could together chalk out the modalities of the dialogue. It is India's turn to host Pakistan's foreign secretary. The exact dates of this meeting will be decided soon, they said.

The subjects under the comprehensive bilateral dialogue are the same as that under the composite dialogue initiated by the Atal Bihari Vajpayee regime and continued by the succeeding Manmohan Singh government.

The comprehensive dialogue covers the issues of peace and security, confidence building measures (CBMs), J&K, Siachen, Sir Creek, Wullar barrage/Tulbul navigation project, economic and commercial cooperation, counter-terrorism, narcotics control, humanitarian issues, people-to-people exchanges and religious tourism.

The composite dialogue with similar subjects was launched in 1998 when Vajpayee was in power and after ups and downs his era ended with the PM's visit to Islamabad for the SAARC Summit in 2004. There was no significant achievement under the subjects of that dialogue expect in areas of Sir Creek and matters of commerce.

The first subject was Siachen, which was looked after by the defence secretary, the second was Sir Creek, which was under the surveyor general or additional secretary, the third was the Tulbul navigation project under secretary (water resources), the fourth was terrorism and drug trafficking, looked after by the home secretary, the fifth was economic cooperation looked after by the commerce secretary, the sixth was the promotion of friendly exchanges under the secretary (culture), the seventh was peace and security, including confidence building measures handled by the foreign secretary and the eighth was J&K, also handled by the foreign secretary.

BharadwajV · Post by **BharadwajV** » 11 Dec 2015 14:58

Here is another episode from the (in)famous "Talking from the Behind" with (yet to be beheaded) Musharraf:

KARACHI: Former president General (retd) Pervez Musharraf on Tuesday said those fighting in Indian-held Kashmir (IHK) were 'mujahideen' and 'freedom fighters' and not terrorists, BBC Urdu reported

http://www.dawn.com/news/1225049/

member_23692 · Post by **member_23692** » 11 Dec 2015 16:19

CRamS wrote:rsangram, leave aside US pressure (thats my opinion), but what compelled India to "bend over" as you put it? I asked DipankarJi the same thing.

The realization by Modi that India is too weak to deal with Paki from a position of strength and a further realization by him, that his bluff would not work, and Paki and the world is well aware of India's weaknesses.

India's weakness is not the making of Modi, but he is having to play a very weak hand that he has been dealt and he is prevented by our current system of governance to substantially alter our position of weakness into strength.

India always "bends over", because its system of governance is too inept and its political leaders too corrupt and its people too clueless and too pre-occupied with immediate gratification and are basically a bunch of kleptos, to create any real strength.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 11 Dec 2015 16:20

rsangram wrote:India always "bends over", because it system of governance too inept and its political leaders too corrupt and its people too clueless and too pre-occupied with immediate gratification, to create real strength.

And it's people too weak to do anything about it except rant or rave on online fora.

member_23692 · Post by **member_23692** » 11 Dec 2015 16:22

Kashi wrote:
rsangram wrote:India always "bends over", because it system of governance too inept and its political leaders too corrupt and its people too clueless and too pre-occupied with immediate gratification, to create real strength.
And it's people too weak to do anything about it except rant or rave on online fora.

Exactly, and also so weak that their first instinct is to shoot the messenger.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 11 Dec 2015 16:25

rsangram wrote:Exactly, and also so weak that their first instinct is to shoot the messenger.

Oh the irony!

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 11 Dec 2015 16:47

Resumption of Pak talks = India bends over, immense pressure from massa, will give away Kashmir, 56' is now 26' and other blah blah...

Has anyone really considered Indian motives for talks resumption ?

We *need* to protect our interests strategic and commercial within Afghanistan. Road Transit to Afghanistan is crucial.The packees can, will and have played truant on this issue of transit.

Hai hai'ing this govt based on experiences of previous govts wrt to Pak is not right.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 11 Dec 2015 18:03

Some of the talk shows in Shitistan are saying that India was being Chanakian in agreeing to start the talks as India could not afford to be out of the Heart of Asia conference in Afghanistan.
Pakistan was previously opposing any role/participation for India in anything related to Afghanistan claiming India has no locus- standi as it did not share a physical border with Afghanistan. But now showing the carrot of comprehensive talks India has taken a written commitments (joint statement) regarding early conclusion of Mumbai case trials without pakistan getting the same assurance on Samjhauta express case and also India's role in any future set-up in Afghanistan has had to endorsed by Pakistan.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 11 Dec 2015 19:25

rsangram wrote:
CRamS wrote:rsangram, leave aside US pressure (thats my opinion), but what compelled India to "bend over" as you put it? I asked DipankarJi the same thing.
The realization by Modi that India is too weak to deal with Paki from a position of strength and a further realization by him, that his bluff would not work, and Paki and the world is well aware of India's weaknesses.

India's weakness is not the making of Modi, but he is having to play a very weak hand that he has been dealt and he is prevented by our current system of governance to substantially alter our position of weakness into strength.

India always "bends over", because its system of governance is too inept and its political leaders too corrupt and its people too clueless and too pre-occupied with immediate gratification and are basically a bunch of kleptos, to create any real strength.

I thought you earlier said the "world" (read US) had no bearing on this turn around by ModiJi? So why are you doing a U-turn now

. Of course, IMO, "the world" (read US) did call ModiJi's bluff. Even today, other than lip service, or at most as an after thought, 26/11 and other barbarity by TSP against India hardly figures in the world's conscience as much as Paris or the many other terror attacks on western countries. So among other things, with western govt's refusal to isolate TSP, they called on ModiJi's "bluff" if you want to call it that. India's reasonable demand that TSP terror against India be treated at the same level as Al Queda and ISIS terror, and its actually worse because it is state sponsored, fell flat. Basically, the world said, you want our investment, then make p!ss with our TSP munna.

But coming to your other points, I don't have a problem with this turn around provided certain core interests of India are met. And that is J&K, terror, say in Afghanistan etc.

Thus, Modi was up against TSP, its 3.5, and his internal enemies in India. Under the circumstances, he walked a tight rope and got the best deal he could. You are right in what ails India, but thats not the topic of this thread.

member_29004 · Post by **member_29004** » 11 Dec 2015 19:27

BR would have exploded if MMS and Congress did this round about! Guess it is not India first, rather BJP first!

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 11 Dec 2015 20:01

Multan's Al-Huda Institute , Where Tashfeen Malik "Studied" Is A "Hub Of Radicalization" - Paki Journo
Al-Huda mightn't be linked to terrorism, but Farhat Hashmi's misogynistic and Shiaphobic institute is a hub of radicalization
Al-Huda mightn't be linked to terrorism, but Farhat Hashmi's misogynistic and Shiaphobic institute is a hub of radicalization

Madame Farhat Hashmi, a PhD in ‘Hadith Sciences’ ( is there such a "discipline" ) refers to herself as a feminist but maintains that in a home, the man is the king of the house, is everything, and must be obeyed and there can be no equality. Women must stay at home and remain subservient. Many a home has broken apart when her students started celebrating misogyny.
29-year-old Tashfeen Malik, one of the San Bernardino shooters is believed to have studied long enough at Al-Huda to have been indoctrinated on a certain way of thinking.(but she decided not to be a "stay at home mom", therefore "violating" Sharia Law !)

Lal Masjid has been tied to terrorism time and time again in Pakistan, where the leader Maulana Abdul Aziz has even openly declared his support for ISIS.
And yet he roams free.

And reports have surfaced in the Paki press - which the esteemed maulana has vigorously denied - that Ms Malik was a "well known admirer" of his " philosophy"

Farhat Hashmi and her husband founded Al-Huda in 1994 as a means to give the correct knowledge of the Quran and Sunnah. She along with her sisters started going to homes and various places giving dars and quickly became very popular with ladies from the upper middle and the rich class.

So, she and her husband were in the "business of selling (Wahabi) Mailsi " to well-to-do Paki Ayeshas"

She taught that it is for a woman to hide herself from a man as he is but a helpless useless animal with no control whatsoever and would jump on a bare shoulder and start gnawing on it like a starving dog on a bone.
Okay, maybe not the words she chose, but the message was clear. It is the woman’s duty to cover herself from head to toe (even face) and it is her burden, not the responsibility of the man, if he were to act on his uncontrollable impulses in the cases where the woman did not cover herself completely.

And her" famous pupil" dutifully imported such beliefs in the Land Of The Brave And The Free with disastrous results

Farhat Hashmi does not see Osama bin Laden as a terrorist either but rather as a warrior. And clearly her PhD skipped the actual “science’ part because she stated that 80,000 Pakistanis died in the 2005 earthquake due to immoral activities and them deviating from the right path of Islam. An opinion, popularly shared in Pakistan.

So, by that comparison, Hafiz Suar and Ms Hashmi belong to the "same club" .

Other things which Madame Hashmi is known for is her stance against Shias. She does not see them as good practicing Muslims or depending on her mood, Muslims at all. To counter her own disdain, she states that it is in fact they who dislike Sunnis.

It would be a "good idea" for her to open a branch of her Academy in S.A. where she will be welcomed with open arms!

Her oppressive views have spread over to branches in the US, UK and Canada as well as schools for little children in those countries. However, the Al-Huda Institute in Canada closed its doors after four Al-Huda students left to support ISIS. Three of them were by chance intercepted by Turkish authorities and sent back to Canada.[/quote]
Canadian authorities, should take note!
And then there is Tashfeen Malik.

There is no real proof to back the theory that Al-Huda brainwashed Tashfeen and others into terrorism but one thing that is for sure is that Madame Hashmi’s institute promotes unhealthy fanaticism and an orthodox manner of thinking.
And that could very well turn one into a cold blooded murderer given just the right push; all in hopes to getting in heaven.( and hoping to get "72 male virgins"?)

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 11 Dec 2015 20:11

nirav wrote:Resumption of Pak talks = India bends over, immense pressure from massa, will give away Kashmir, 56' is now 26' and other blah blah...

Has anyone really considered Indian motives for talks resumption ?

We *need* to protect our interests strategic and commercial within Afghanistan. Road Transit to Afghanistan is crucial.The packees can, will and have played truant on this issue of transit.

Hai hai'ing this govt based on experiences of previous govts wrt to Pak is not right.

nirav Ji :

1. For Afghanistan India will have to rely on Chabahar.

2. All Indian Trucks using Cwapistani roads will be susceptible to "A LA NATO" Treatment.

3A. Via Chabahar : For Turkmenistan Only One Transiting Country : Via Cwapistan & Afghanistan : Two

3B. Via Chabahar : Khazakstan - Iran - Caspian Sea : Only One Transiting Country

4. FROM THE WORLD FACTBOOK :

KYRGYZSTAN : 2014 – Exports : $ 1.892 billion – Imports : $5. 29 billion

TAJIKISTAN : 2014 – Exports : $ 526.8 million – Imports : $ 4.509 billion

UZBEKISTAN : 2014 – Exports : $ $13.31 billion – Imports : $ $12.92 billion

Are these Three CARs worth Trading with? Please check the World Factbook for Origin of Imports and Destination of Exports.

So why does India need to Transit Cwapistan for its CAR including Afghanistan Trading?

Cheers

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 11 Dec 2015 20:22

Among these was the observation that ‘Pakistan-China trade relations’ were a euphemism for ‘Pakistan-China security ties’, since all trade-related matters were processed by the GHQ and not the Board of Investment or the Tariff Commission. - See more at: http://www.thefridaytimes.com/tft/a-fes ... eSz1e.dpuf

No need to follow that link, this is one diamond I recovered from a whole pile of hay.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 11 Dec 2015 20:38

Peregrine ji :

Road transit via paki land allows us access to Afghanistan and Iran too.. Let them build cpec. Some part of it will be useful for our purposes too.

Also transit is just one of the aspects.pakis know well that this Indian govt means business and is fully capable on delivering on its promises if pakis breach the red lines.

The massive retaliation on the border is ample proof of our resolve.heck our DM actually acknowledge that pakis begged us to stop.

After delivering those jhapads, if pakis are desperate to talk it out, what's the harm in talking to them ?

If they resort to their famed duplee city and genetic perfidy, border can be heated up in an instant by desh.

A ceasefire is in everyone's interest. Must wait and watch what happens post talks. This way BSF and IA also get some time off of blasting PAjis and get much needed R&R.

In my mind there are two ways of looking at these talks.one is with shivering negativity 56 inch to 26 and all that.
Other is that we are engaging in these talks from a position of strength.it was the pakis, PAjis who were desperate and came begging to us to "talk".
Talk we will. Its up to them to walk the talk.

jash_p · Post by **jash_p** » 11 Dec 2015 20:53

Guys Pakis will be celebrating yom-a-maqbool (day of surrender) in few days.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 11 Dec 2015 20:59

jash_p wrote:Guys Pakis will be celebrating yom-a-maqbool (day of surrender) in few days.

AoA TO THAT

sukhish · Post by **sukhish** » 11 Dec 2015 21:52

everybody is trying to justify the talks now. I'am really surprised. two years back same folks would be ranting all over this forum if anybody from GOI suggested for talks with pak. amazing how perception changes for the same thing in little as two years. also about india giving beffeting reply to pak on the border and hence forcing pak to talk is laughable. has the terror incidents in J&k reduced by a single notch. every two to three weeks there are incidents happening. I was hoping GOI would do something cross border in pak as congress did not have the guts to do it (although they did it 1971). it all about glorification of MODI JI at the end of the day. why is even siachen or sir creek in the discussion. somebody in the forum was saying that MMS was about to give siachen to pak becuase it was part of discussion. so shall we conclude the same from MODIJI now ? when will sushma explain to parliament her justification of starting talks ? anyway she would deliver good speech and all the BR folks will get nice wet dreams. this was not the thing i was expecting from this iron man. may be he is iron man in his own house. the moment he saw the world perspective he had to cave in. good for him, time for him travel to some foriegn country and give a rousing speech now.

sukhish · Post by **sukhish** » 11 Dec 2015 22:02

this guy is selling snake oil at best that's it. he does the same thing as the last GOI in each and every issue but wraps it up in a good speech that's it. arousing people with little difference in substance in the mantra. good for him, I hope opposition gives GOI hell time in rajya sabha.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 11 Dec 2015 22:07

Imran Khan to meet India PM Modi today
NEW DELHI (Web Desk) – Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf Chairman Imran Khan will meet with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in the Indian capital, according to media reports.
Sources said Imran Khan will discuss a number of important political and strategical issues with Modi.

This is from a Paki Daily ; any confirmation from Indian sources?

Also Teetered by MADAME JALEBI

rajithn · Post by **rajithn** » 11 Dec 2015 22:09

Falijee wrote:Imran Khan to meet India PM Modi today
NEW DELHI (Web Desk) – Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf Chairman Imran Khan will meet with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in the Indian capital, according to media reports.
Sources said Imran Khan will discuss a number of important political and strategical issues with Modi.

This is from a Paki Daily ; any confirmation from Indian sources?

Also Teetered by MADAME JALEBI

He's already had the meeting.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 11 Dec 2015 22:15

sukhish wrote:everybody is trying to justify the talks now. I'am really surprised. two years back same folks would be ranting all over this forum if anybody from GOI suggested for talks with pak. amazing how perception changes for the same thing in little as two years. also about india giving beffeting reply to pak on the border and hence forcing pak to talk is laughable. has the terror incidents in J&k reduced by a single notch. every two to three weeks there are incidents happening. I was hoping GOI would do something cross border in pak as congress did not have the guts to do it (although they did it 1971). it all about glorification of MODI JI at the end of the day. why is even siachen or sir creek in the discussion. somebody in the forum was saying that MMS was about to give siachen to pak becuase it was part of discussion. so shall we conclude the same from MODIJI now ? when will sushma explain to parliament her justification of starting talks ? anyway she would deliver good speech and all the BR folks will get nice wet dreams. this was not the thing i was expecting from this iron man. may be he is iron man in his own house. the moment he saw the world perspective he had to cave in. good for him, time for him travel to some foriegn country and give a rousing speech now.

sukhish wrote:this guy is selling snake oil at best that's it. he does the same thing as the last GOI in each and every issue but wraps it up in a good speech that's it. arousing people with little difference in substance in the mantra. good for him, I hope opposition gives GOI hell time in rajya sabha.

your political choices aka INC are well known. kindly don't try and pretend to be a neutral observer.
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 4#p1232744

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Dec 2015 22:20

Falijee wrote:Imran Khan to meet India PM Modi today
NEW DELHI (Web Desk) – Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf Chairman Imran Khan will meet with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in the Indian capital, according to media reports.
Sources said Imran Khan will discuss a number of important political and strategical issues with Modi.

This is from a Paki Daily ; any confirmation from Indian sources?

Also Teetered by MADAME JALEBI

So all local satraps are coming to pay obeisance to Bharat Samrat.