Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 24 Dec 2015 21:46

noi, maybe its a simple case of whats in the contract. And such certification should be done by OEM anyways, violating it may mean voiding some after-sales service contract.

Any effort put by our folks will anyways count towards their IP, which we already saw with Jaguar/Mig programs. We got zilch....nada...potty. Sometimes it does not hurt to act like a privileged customer

Let them finish what they promised.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Dec 2015 11:08

Pakistan in talks with US to buy F-16s: Air Chief Sohail Aman

member_27581 · Post by **member_27581** » 29 Dec 2015 14:32

Irony just jumped from Burj Dubai and committed susaaide

Austin wrote:Pakistan in talks with US to buy F-16s: Air Chief Sohail Aman

We are in talks with US defence officials to get some latest F-16s
......
JF-Thunder is the latest entry into the Pakistan Air Force (PAF).
.....
Expressing his satisfaction over the production and quality level of the JF-17 Thunder, he said it is at par with the F-16 in terms of performance and operations.

nits · Post by **nits** » 30 Dec 2015 13:52

Funny; if they think that JF-17 Thunder is at par with the F-16 why they need more F16? just produce some more "home grown"

JF 17

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 30 Dec 2015 13:57

Air Chief said they want to buy "latest" F-16 probably the late model ones , would be interesting to see which model is PAF interested in also considering they operate a good number of teens going for advanced model would make more sense.

nits · Post by **nits** » 30 Dec 2015 15:07

PAF has below versions
F-16A/B Block 15
F-16A/B Block 15 OCU
F-16C/D Block 50/52+
F-16A/B Block 15 ADF

Options they have are as follows

Block 60
The Block 60 F-16 brings a host of new systems that keep the fighter on the leading edge of technology and provide the capabilities necessary to meet modern defense requirements.
Some of these leading-edge systems include:
• New conformal fuel tanks significantly extend the aircraft’s range
• New, more advanced flight controls and radar detection capabilities
• All-new avionics to give the pilots more sensor data and improved situational awareness

F-16V
The F-16V is the latest in F-16 evolution. Leveraging 40 years of experience, the F-16V includes enhancements such as an AESA Radar, advanced architecture, new center display and the latest in certified weaponry. This improves pilot situational awareness and provides customers increased operational capability. The F-16V is an option for new production jets and current fleet upgrades. The Taiwan government selected the F-16V configuration for its 145 Block 20 F-16 A/B aircraft.

* Data from Wiki and LM Website

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Dec 2015 16:20

all their block10/15 are upgraded to block 30 or 40 std I think...all are capable of releasing amraam and jdam though the block52 has a better radar, avionics, cft and ew.

"buy" means free in the context of US "sales" to pak. the entire capex is covered under some GOAT aid and PAF only bears the opex.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 30 Dec 2015 18:00

JF-17 fills its own role (simple, cheap etc) and is not to be compared with F-16. In any case JF-17 production continues on its own pace.

I take PAF ACM's comments as an indicator of their aversion to buying J-10 and other Chinese fighters.

nits · Post by **nits** » 31 Dec 2015 11:40

On that note - Why Chinese J-10 fighter jet is falling out of Sky

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 01 Jan 2016 09:18

nits wrote:Block 60
The Block 60 F-16 brings a host of new systems that keep the fighter on the leading edge of technology and provide the capabilities necessary to meet modern defense requirements.
Some of these leading-edge systems include:
• New conformal fuel tanks significantly extend the aircraft’s range
• New, more advanced flight controls and radar detection capabilities
• All-new avionics to give the pilots more sensor data and improved situational awareness

Block 60 is no longer available as was delivered to UAE. Even UAE is going to craft a new variant dubbed the Block 61 since many of the components of the Block 60 for example are no longer manufactured. The T/R modules for the AN/APG-81 were first generation elements that have long since been replaced at Northrop Grumman by gen. 3+ modules. Furthermore, much of the technology (from hardware like the EW suite, to software on the radar and integration between radar, EW and other sensors) around the Block 60 is owned by the UAE since they paid for its development. Lockheed has not offered that package to anyone. Current options include different systems and sub-systems that are far less integrated than the block 60's. With the F-16V the program essentially is trying to create a basic F-16 again having had success with a much heavier, more kitted aircraft in the recent past. If they do end up getting new built aircraft, they are unlikely to be anything fancy with cutting edge systems for many reasons but primarily due to cost.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 01 Jan 2016 11:41

Dragoon APC, license manufactured by HIT:

http://www.hit.gov.pk/dragoon.html

member_28756 · Post by **member_28756** » 01 Jan 2016 15:52

Singha wrote:all their block10/15 are upgraded to block 30 or 40 std I think...all are capable of releasing amraam and jdam though the block52 has a better radar, avionics, cft and ew.

"buy" means free in the context of US "sales" to pak. the entire capex is covered under some GOAT aid and PAF only bears the opex.

Yeah free is the word. They have soo many F 16s in the inventory it does not make any sense purchasing SU 35 or J10 for logistical and cost reason. I think the tandem of F16 and Jf 17 will make up the TSP air force for the foreseeable future.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 04 Jan 2016 20:47

Paki Navy and PLAN hold joint 2 day exercise in East China Sea.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/01/a-first- ... china-sea/

One +ve side effect will be weakening Japanese ardour for Paki ties

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 05 Jan 2016 04:18

Puker's Tank . T50s?

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 05 Jan 2016 04:44

T-62's..chinese copy of T-55 also called Al-zarrar or something. There was a pic of one burn out in previous pages.

member_29153 · Post by **member_29153** » 06 Jan 2016 19:30

http://m.economictimes.com/news/defence ... 457533.cms

Baki bandar goes to Lanka ... bit ironical

member_28756 · Post by **member_28756** » 07 Jan 2016 04:35

neoankit wrote:http://m.economictimes.com/news/defence ... 457533.cms

Baki bandar goes to Lanka ... bit ironical

Rumours Nigeria and Burma will be next.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 07 Jan 2016 08:27

We failed to rein in a friendly SL regime to buy bundar, unless it is a covertly blessed program by India to get ourselves JF17 to study its capabilities in detail.

member_29153 · Post by **member_29153** » 07 Jan 2016 09:56

^^ I doubt its to study the bandar , we would have benifited strategically if tejas was sold to SL.

member_29153 · Post by **member_29153** » 07 Jan 2016 18:03

^^ the bandar lanka news seems to be , well baki...

Another interesting piece .....
http://www.dawn.com/news/1231394/pakist ... insistence

Mods let me know if this is not the right thread... i will xpost...

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 07 Jan 2016 19:29

bandar sales likely to be cheeni by proxy?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Jan 2016 21:38

neoankit wrote:http://m.economictimes.com/news/defence ... 457533.cms

Baki bandar goes to Lanka ... bit ironical

er um
No fighter jet deal with Pakistan’ : Sri Lanka

The Sri Lankan government has denied reports that it has struck a deal with Pakistan for the purchase of JF-17 Thunder fighter jets.

“The matter did not even come up for discussion during the talks [with the Pakistani government],” Karunasena Hettiarachchi, Defence Secretary, told The Hindu, adding that his government was still considering the purchase of fighter jets.

BharadwajV · Post by **BharadwajV** » 07 Jan 2016 22:26

The Lankan DefSec be like:

Abhay_S · Post by **Abhay_S** » 07 Jan 2016 22:32

^^^ was it BCCI pressure this time ? next time one see's the Bander sales news in Yawn read the coments section. pakis themselves don't believe in this planted news.

BharadwajV · Post by **BharadwajV** » 07 Jan 2016 22:41

Pakistanis are ISPRing around the realities with statements like

As of now, there is no official confirmation of the deal, which might imply that a legal contract has yet to be signed. Pakistan has sought deeper defense ties with Sri Lanka for some time.

But damn the Bitch slap was hard and right on the money by the Lankan Defence Secretary...

Source for zeh BeeYess:http://thediplomat.com/2016/01/sri-lank ... hter-jets/

One area where the Pakistanis follow their richest sugar daddy is in announcing something without actually knowing anything in full. (The Beheaders did a similar event with the Anti-terror Coalition announcement

)
Retrieved from memory:
1) U214 for Pakistan Navy
2)36 J10B for the Fizzlya
3)Su35 again for the Fizzlya
4)Russia-China-Pakistan world dominator tag team
5)Central Asia gateway
6)Nothing happened to our Ereiye AEW&C
7)198 Nations interested in the JF17
8 )Carrier Killer CM400AKG (Praije be to Arrah, the JF carries two)
9) Hellfire storms are with the consent of the GoP
Etc...

member_28756 · Post by **member_28756** » 08 Jan 2016 02:47

This is getting hilarious

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?o ... Itemid=107

The Nigerian Air Force aims to acquire three JF-17 Thunder fighter jets this year, and has budgeted $25 million towards this. It has also allocated some funding for two Mi-35M attack helicopters and ten Super Mushak trainers.

This is according to a leaked copy of the 2016 budget which President Muhammadu Buhari presented to a joint session of the National Assembly in December, 2015, and which was obtained by Nigeria’s Punch newspaper.

The publication said that N2.06 billion ($10.2 million) was allocated for 10 PAC Super Mushshak basic trainers, and N11.6 billion ($56 million) for two Mi-35M helicopters as well as N5 billion for the JF-17s.

Nigeria has for some time been suspected as a customer for the JF-17, with a senior Pakistani Ministry of Defence official at the IDEAS 2014 exhibition in Pakistan saying that Nigeria was close to signing a contract for the jets and that the Nigerian Air Force had finalised its recommendations for the acquisition of 25-40 aircraft.

member_28700 · Post by **member_28700** » 08 Jan 2016 11:20

So a trainer aircraft comes for $1m, a 4th gen fighter comes for less than $10m ($25m/3).
Is Pakistan selling hardware or just hope

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 08 Jan 2016 13:36

vaibhav_kumar wrote:So a trainer aircraft comes for $1m, a 4th gen fighter comes for less than $10m ($25m/3).
Is Pakistan selling hardware or just hope

The Packees ended up giving a wrong quote thanks to their excellent Madrassa math-e-magics.

Think one of the prime armaments of the Bandar would be the pilot shouting AoA on the radio, just like how the mujahids yell AoA when their ass is getting busted.

Could very well be an export success in muslim countries, with AoA as primary weapon and Packee madrassa math-e-magic prices.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Jan 2016 14:06

For completion:
Malaysia denies interest in buying JF-17 from Pakhanastan

Malaysia Defense Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Tun Hussein is denying media reports his country is interested in purchasing the JF-17 multi-role fighter. Hussein responded to the media as Malaysian defense officials discuss the implementation of air force modernization plans. Malaysian media reported Malaysian High Commissioner to Pakistan Dr. Hasrul Sani bin Mujtabar discussed purchasing the Joint Fighter-17, a collaboration between Pakistan and China.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 08 Jan 2016 16:39

Pakhanastan not able to sell bandar to malaysia hain jee? low class says RMAF hain jee?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 10 Jan 2016 17:43

KSEW has launched its first LCM on the 29th Dec:

This will add a new capability to Pak Marines, albeit small in size.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 10 Jan 2016 17:51

Aditya G wrote:KSEW has launched its first LCM on the 29th Dec:

This will add a new capability to Pak Marines, albeit small in size.

This will help Pakis rush their naval commandus from Karachi to Gwadar. certainly a useful capability.

arun · Post by **arun** » 13 Jan 2016 05:26

X Posted from the “Pakistani Role In Global Terrorism” thread.

Afghan media outlet Tolo News quoting Sayed Kamal Sadat, Chief of Police of Afghanistan’s Balkh Province , says that the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Punjabi dominated military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan were involved in the attack on the India’s Herat Consulate

The Police Chief’s comment was quoted by Tolo News as being:

"We saw with our own eyes and I can say 99 percent that those attackers were from Pakistani military and used special tactics while conducting their operation," said Sadat.

"The attackers were military personnel. They were educated and well prepared and had intelligence. They fought us and only by Allah's grace were we able to control them and eliminate them,".

See here:

Pakistani Military Officers Behind Consulate Attack : Balkh Police Chief

Nick_S · Post by **Nick_S** » 13 Jan 2016 15:23

Pakistan, Korea seek more security cooperation

Pakistan is currently considering the purchase of Korea’s T-50 lead-in fighter trainer to revamp its air fleet training program.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 13 Jan 2016 21:12

US Congress Moves Against Pakistani F-16 Deal

ISLAMABAD — The US Congress is reported to have stymied Pakistani efforts to further acquire F-16 fighter jets, according to reports in local media. Analysts say the move could have implications for the bilateral relationship at a sensitive time if the proposed deal stalls altogether.

The deal has apparently been put on hold by Congress in an effort to impede its progress, something the Obama administration is reportedly attempting to reverse.

The news was first reported by Pakistan's 'Dawn' media group on Tuesday, citing local diplomatic and congressional sources. It claimed the moves were being spearheaded by increasingly anti-Pakistani/pro-Indian lawmakers, naming and quoting Rep. Ted Poe, R-Texas, and Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, Calif., as examples.

The proposed deal was first revealed in November 2015, with a formal FMS notification made in early December.
Considering the forces arrayed against it, Brian Cloughley, former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, said he thinks much uncertainty now surrounds the proposed sale due to Congress' machinations, despite it not being killed completely.

"Congress is well aware of the fact that it is gravely discommoding Pakistan, but has no qualms about that," he said. "The arrangement for supply of the eight aircraft, as proposed, however, is not dead, but it will require a great deal of work by the Administration to revive it — and the White House might not be keen on that."

Similarly, Claude Rakisits, nonresident senior fellow the Atlantic Council's South Asia Center, is not optimistic on the matter, and said he believes congressional opposition could grow.

"The sale of the F-16s is not looking promising," Rakisits said. "And if the sale of the F-16s has now effectively stalled in a Senate dominated by the generally Pakistan-friendly Republican Party, I would have thought that such a sale to go ahead in a possible Democratic-majority Senate following the 2016 congressional elections would be even more unlikely."

He expressed some surprise at the turn of events considering the previous Republican attitude towards Pakistan, plus recent efforts that were helping smooth over past differences.

"That the sale of the F-16s has met such opposition is somewhat surprising given that bilateral relations between the two countries have very much improved lately," Rakisits said. "It has been particularly so since the Pakistan army launched its counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism operations in Pakistan's tribal areas in June 2014. The Pakistan army has been very effective in hunting down the Pakistan and Afghan Taliban fighters. The number of terrorist attacks in Pakistan has dropped dramatically as a result."

Rakisits continued: "President Obama and high-level officials recently hosted separately Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and Pakistan's Chief of Army Staff, Gen Raheel Sharif. Both visits went very well."

As a result, Rakisits said "such negative congressional reaction to the sale of the F-16s will come as a deep disappointment to officials in Islamabad."

Pakistan's disappointment is closely linked with events concerning Afghanistan.

"Not only will that be the case because the Pakistan military has been conducting operations against the Haqqani Network hiding in the tribal areas, as repeatedly asked to do so by the Obama administration for years, but also because it has been assisting in trying to get the Afghan peace process back on track. For example, the inaugural quadrilateral meeting of the US, China, Pakistan and Afghanistan on this issue was held in Islamabad on Monday."

Following the recent terrorist attack on an Indian air force base however Obama may not be so enthusiastic in pushing the deal forward.
Should the deal not transpire, Rakisits said it would be "a big mistake on the part of Congress."

"Already Washington's influence in Pakistan is fast diminishing, and has increasingly been the case since the US pulled most of its troops from Afghanistan at the end of 2014" he said. "As a result, and not surprisingly, this has meant that Pakistan has moved deeper and deeper into China's geo-strategic orbit. And the latest $46 billion China Pakistan Economic Corridor project further consolidates Pakistan's long-standing relationship with China."

Deepening Pakistan-China ties should not be a surprise to Washington, however.

"With an eye on a rising China, starting under President Bush and continued under President Obama, Washington has made it very clear that in the long-term India would play a more important role than Pakistan in its geo-strategic calculations for the region," Rakisits said.

The likely result is also well appreciated by Congress, but other factors have overridden these concerns.

"Congress knows the geo-strategic implications of refusing to sell the F-16s to Pakistan but the Indian lobby is very effective. And, quite frankly, Muslims are unfortunately not the flavor-of-the-month in this presidential and congressional election year, and as we know all congressmen and many Republican senators are up for re-election in November," he said.

Pakistan's air force modernization efforts would almost certainly be negatively affected without an F-16 deal.

"It is impossible for any air force to undertake long-term planning for the purposes of national defense policy if there is no guarantee that supply of its main platforms, and replacements, as originally planned, will continue," said Cloughley.

However, Cloughly said he doesn't think the stalled F-16 deal will affect a deal for 15 AH-1Z helicopter gunships announced in April 2015.

Shanu · Post by **Shanu** » 14 Jan 2016 09:07

Seems like changes happening on the ground. With the US Congress suddenly developing some logical thinking and the Good Sharif Government developing some b**ls in detaining JeM Chief.

I know these are not much and I have seen too many of these dog and pony shows to take them seriously, but at least there is a show of something being done. I have a few question though - would it not hurt their H&D that India has become so important that the US Congress is stopping F-16 sales to its beloved Munna? Are they asking questions - why a 'freedom fighter and nationalistic Jihadi' is being harassed to keep India happy? Have the Paki Fauj lost its honour that they are now listening to the Baniya Hindooos?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 15 Jan 2016 20:10

Pakistani Naval Modernization Appears Stalled

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 15 Jan 2016 23:50

Usman Ansari IIRC is a regular contributor on Pakdef which is littered with mutts of senior Paki Defence personnel living on siphoned off commissions in western countries.

If he is saying PN is in dire straits, things must be pretty bad.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 16 Jan 2016 04:06

Turkish Altay tank sees Pakistani and Saudi interest

A Pakistani buy funded most likely by the Saudis since the bhikhaaris cannot possibly afford them on their own.

arun · Post by **arun** » 16 Jan 2016 08:28

X Posted from the “ISI - History and Discussions” thread.

Dexter Filkins in the New Yorker in an article titled “The Pakistani Dystopia”.

Implicates the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Punjabi dominated Military via their Intelligence arm the Inter Services Intelligence Directorate aka ISID aka ISI of involvement in acts of terrorism targeting India.

Characterises the detention of Terrorist Masood Azhar as a “Farce”.

Excerpts:

Imagine a country that is embroiled in a long and bloody conflict with its neighbor, and each time its democratically elected Prime Minister tries to reach out and make peace, his own army launches an attack to make sure the peace doesn’t take hold. You might think you were trapped inside a dystopian movie. Unless, of course, you’ve been to Pakistan, where this happens all the time.

This week, Pakistani officials said they had detained Masood Azhar, the leader of Jaish-e-Mohammed, a militant group, for his alleged role in overseeing the attack on an Indian airbase in the city of Pathankot earlier this month. ……………………………….

Azhar’s detention is almost certainly a farce, staged to placate foreign leaders. If the past is any guide, Azhar, who has been detained many times before, will soon be free and able to carry out more attacks. This is the way it has worked in Pakistan for years.

I’m not the first person to notice that Pakistani militants regularly try to sabotage peaceful relations between their country and India. Aparna Pande, at the Hudson Institute, has put together a chronology of these attacks.

But the important point is who backs, trains, tolerates and supports those militants: the Pakistani military and, most particularly, its spy service, known as the Inter-Services Intelligence, or the I.S.I.

For decades, the Pakistani military has backed insurgent groups whose express aim is to cross into India and fight. (The I.S.I. has also done this in Afghanistan, helping to create and sustain the Taliban.) The ostensible aim of these militant groups, and of the I.S.I., is to bleed India into ceding control over Kashmir. This has never been more than a fantasy, but it keeps the country of Pakistan focussed on something other than its intractable domestic problems, and it justifies the military’s bloated budgets.

That the I.S.I. plays godfather to groups like Jaish-e-Mohammed, which appears to have carried out the Pathankot attack, and Lashkar-e-Toiba, which launched the operation in Mumbai—the assault on the Indian Parliament appears to have been a joint operation of the two—is beyond doubt.

Read it all:

The Pakistani Dystopia