Pathankot AirForce base under attack

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Jan 2016 12:19

HT reports final assault underway with Army troops armed with RCLs. Probably Carl Gustavs.

Should.be over soon.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 04 Jan 2016 12:28

chetak wrote:who is the op commander??, home ministry and punjab police don't report to the IA. this is one right royal effup...The IA has a GOC in the area and legitimately it is he who should be coordinating and controlling the ops including very specifically controlling the release of information and managing terse press briefings.

The Op Commander is AOC-in-C WAC, who with due respect, is a very wrong person for the job.

As you correctly said, the local GOC supported by Air Force Station Commander and Local Police Leadership would've been a better C&C structure.

Forces should've been Regular Infantry Battalions or RR (though this is outside their area of operations), that would've combed the area guided by Local Air Force Police / Garuds / DSC. Once isolated, the Ghatak Platoons could've taken them out.

NSG works well in confined spaces, not in combing operations in wide areas.

Edited Later - As posted by Ramana, looks like this is finally happening with Infantry Battalions being used.

habal · Post by **habal** » 04 Jan 2016 12:45

If Afghanistan is the weak link for Pakistan, then do they think they can make this link strong after these attacks. Most likely India will throw the Kitchen sink at Afghanistan. Pinaka, Smerch, MRBL, T90, WLR, Comms, Satellite feed, drones, LCA, Jaguar, MiG-29s, Dhanush 150mm, 125mm, mortars, ALH, APC, Arjun MBT & what not. This is sure shot way to lose Afghanistan. Somewhat like USA provoking the bear to reinforce itself in Syria.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 04 Jan 2016 12:55

tsarkar wrote:
chetak wrote:who is the op commander??, home ministry and punjab police don't report to the IA. this is one right royal effup...The IA has a GOC in the area and legitimately it is he who should be coordinating and controlling the ops including very specifically controlling the release of information and managing terse press briefings.
The Op Commander is AOC-in-C WAC, who with due respect, is a very wrong person for the job.

As you correctly said, the local GOC supported by Air Force Station Commander and Local Police Leadership would've been a better C&C structure.

Forces should've been Regular Infantry Battalions or RR (though this is outside their area of operations), that would've combed the area guided by Local Air Force Police / Garuds / DSC. Once isolated, the Ghatak Platoons could've taken them out.

NSG works well in confined spaces, not in combing operations in wide areas.

Edited Later - As posted by Ramana, looks like this is finally happening with Infantry Battalions being used.

there was no reason whatsoever for the home secy to stick his oar in and gum up the C&C works.

with the NSA directing from dilli, it must have been a "natural" progression of things for the MHA to horn in and for a lot of folks who did not imagine that the publicity that they sought would blow up in their very faces.

brvarsh · Post by **brvarsh** » 04 Jan 2016 12:57

But then Khalistani movement was clandestinely supported by US through Pakistan too so sandwitching Pakistan would not have been that easy. The best time to sandwitch Pakistan is now with a very tangible anti Pakistan sentiments across the World.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 04 Jan 2016 13:03

Afghanistan cannot be defended only by sending war machines. The will of the people fighting Pakiban encroachment will be of paramount importance. Violation of Pakistan airspace would be necessary to provide any long range Su-30MKI support.

partha · Post by **partha** » 04 Jan 2016 13:09

Two pigs are held up in a 2 story residential quarters building. It seems like the plan was to do APS + PNS Mehran. All families are safe according to Govt statement which means they were all evacuated at the right time. Good job there.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 04 Jan 2016 13:09

Times now reporting that PM's meeting with NSA and Raksha Mantri is now over. Something in the works?

Wouldn't we need a CCS meet if a major counter offensive was in the works? Just curious.

Whatever they decide or discuss, hope they don't do it over gmail. Only.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 04 Jan 2016 13:14

Also, this is Lt Gen (Retd) Syed Ata Hasnain:

habal · Post by **habal** » 04 Jan 2016 13:16

prahaar wrote:Afghanistan cannot be defended only by sending war machines. The will of the people fighting Pakiban encroachment will be of paramount importance. Violation of Pakistan airspace would be necessary to provide any long range Su-30MKI support.

whatever it takes man, whatever it takes. Whatever gives pain to the enemy, gives immense disproportionate pleasure to us. Afghan forces seriously deserve air support. This can be given by India.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 04 Jan 2016 13:18

rrNDTV has crossed some new lows today.

>>Abhishek Dwivedi
‏@lifethatwasnt
NDTV hinting terrorists to use fuel tanks.

>>Abhishek Dwivedi ‏@lifethatwasnt 58m58 minutes ago
Not only this, they divulged the exact location of the ammunition store from the building where the terrorists are holed up.
38 retweets 6 likes
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Abhishek Dwivedi ‏@lifethatwasnt 56m56 minutes ago
This Rajiv Chap was telling *Ammunition dippo me *Mortars hain, rocket launchers, guns hain*. Bahut tabahi hogi*
23 retweets 6 likes

A video clip is also uploaded of the ndtv hindi channel that did this.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 04 Jan 2016 13:19

TIMES NOW (@TimesNow) tweeted at 2:10 PM on Mon, Jan 04, 2016:
BREAKING- Punjab police arrests two men, seizes Pakistan sim card and weapons marked with Pakistan markings
(https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/683 ... 37312?s=02)

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 04 Jan 2016 13:39

Hari Seldon wrote:Also, this is Lt Gen (Retd) Syed Ata Hasnain:

Better take longer than to rush in that may end up in grieving families mourning their brave young men. I am happy to see a professional such as Lt. Gen. Hasnain bat for this approach.

member_20036 · Post by **member_20036** » 04 Jan 2016 13:46

I heard Maroof Raza in times now say that SP did inform his superiors about the carjacking but they didnot believe him due to professional enimity or rivalry.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 04 Jan 2016 14:24

So now that terrorists have done their PoC by attacking AFB Mehran in Pakistan and honed their skills in attacking AFB Pathankot in Bharat, Should we expect to see something similar at a louder level in one of the western country.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 04 Jan 2016 14:28

Hari Seldon wrote:rrNDTV has crossed some new lows today.

>>Abhishek Dwivedi
‏@lifethatwasnt
NDTV hinting terrorists to use fuel tanks.

>>Abhishek Dwivedi ‏@lifethatwasnt 58m58 minutes ago
Not only this, they divulged the exact location of the ammunition store from the building where the terrorists are holed up.
38 retweets 6 likes
Reply Retweet 38
Like 6
More
View other replies
Abhishek Dwivedi ‏@lifethatwasnt 56m56 minutes ago
This Rajiv Chap was telling *Ammunition dippo me *Mortars hain, rocket launchers, guns hain*. Bahut tabahi hogi*
23 retweets 6 likes

A video clip is also uploaded of the ndtv hindi channel that did this.

A valid punishment would be to place broadcasting of rNDTV under suspension for 1 week. IIRC, something like that was already done for Al Jazeera for showing a wrong map. So there is precedence and it will send a message. Losing 1 week of ad revenue and lower TRP ratings will definitely pinch them hard and serve as a notice to other MSM about the Laskhman Rekhas that should not be crossed.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 04 Jan 2016 14:32

tsarkar wrote:
chetak wrote:who is the op commander??, home ministry and punjab police don't report to the IA. this is one right royal effup...The IA has a GOC in the area and legitimately it is he who should be coordinating and controlling the ops including very specifically controlling the release of information and managing terse press briefings.
The Op Commander is AOC-in-C WAC, who with due respect, is a very wrong person for the job.

As you correctly said, the local GOC supported by Air Force Station Commander and Local Police Leadership would've been a better C&C structure.

Forces should've been Regular Infantry Battalions or RR (though this is outside their area of operations), that would've combed the area guided by Local Air Force Police / Garuds / DSC. Once isolated, the Ghatak Platoons could've taken them out.

NSG works well in confined spaces, not in combing operations in wide areas.

Edited Later - As posted by Ramana, looks like this is finally happening with Infantry Battalions being used.

Gen Hasnain said para sf should've handled this op instead of nsg since they're the ones with more experience and training at combing wide areas and flushing out terrorists while nsg is trained for other things.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 04 Jan 2016 14:34

Saw an interview by Barkha duty of a 25 yr old daughter of one of the martyrs. The girl was barely speaking.. Brought tears to my eyes.

Think its time there's a law that prohibits airing of interviews of grieving families.

The country certainly needs to know about personal loss and sacrifices of families of martyrs, but not in their moment of grief.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 04 Jan 2016 14:35

Prasan wrote:I heard Maroof Raza in times now say that SP did inform his superiors about the carjacking but they didnot believe him due to professional enimity or rivalry.

This has been reported before. The point is not so much who in Punjab Police is saying what, although it's interesting as a data point.

What's happening here is that some Punjab Police personnel, having actively aided and abetted drug running over the years, are now frantically passing the buck because the politician supported criminal trafficking enterprises they run in that state have ended up directly supported a spectacular act of terrorism.

I think what's worrying some police officials is that uncovering how this went down is also going to uncover details and nexuses that will destroy a lot of people.

So they need one guy to take the fall and shut this down fast.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 Jan 2016 14:39

i heard from someone recently that the cross border drug trafficking in punjab with the proceeds flowing to powerful people has become a real catastrophe... maybe this is the price that is being paid for that corruption...?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Jan 2016 14:54

No rogue strike, all hands point to Pakistani military

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 04 Jan 2016 15:04

Breaking News reports state that 2 remaining terrorists have been neutralized. But Operation continues!

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Jan 2016 15:06

Thats the issue with some of our military and other bases/ranges, they are huge and full of trees and thick grass, bushes.. its literally going to be inch by inch search

srai · Post by **srai** » 04 Jan 2016 15:28

Karan M wrote:Thats the issue with some of our military and other bases/ranges, they are huge and full of trees and thick grass, bushes.. its literally going to be inch by inch search

Time to load up on Unattended Ground Sensors (UGS) for those areas.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Jan 2016 15:37

Agree.. we have to spend..

Also found a report saying Paramils are now looking into Daksh; see the size, its clearly large enough to handle large load

September 2015

http://sakaaltimes.com/NewsDetails.aspx ... bot%20help

Indian Army has inducted Daksh to detect any kind of Improvised Explosive Devices (IED).
A delegation of MHA including representatives of National Security Guard (NSG), Border Security Force (BSF), Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) and Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), and representatives from North East state police had a meeting with DRDO scientists at Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE). The meeting was held at Pashan recently where they discussed various aspects of the equipment and its technology.

“We are going to conduct test trials in order to evaluate and understand its capability and functioning. If the trials goes well, then the further decision whether to procure it or not will be taken by the Ministry,” he added.

The Daksh is capable of climbing stairs as well as negotiating cross country terrain and has on board a shotgun for blasting through door locks and breaking windshields to handle any kind of car bombs.

Look at the multiplicity of agencies and even though people are cross deputed we have silo'ed kit and slow procurement. On a + note

A few months ago, for the first time, Assam police had procured Daksh for their operations in the conflict zones.
General Manager, AR Vaidya, of Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL), Pune unit, which has manufactured Daksh, said that the Assam police had purchased a Daksh from BEL few months ago.

“We are likely to get more orders to supply Daksh in the near future,” he confirmed.
A senior army officer welcomed the move of MHA on the issue.

“The paramilitary forces are playing pivotal roles in forward areas. As a result, it is the need of the hour to induct sophisticated equipment to prepare them better to take on daily challenges,” the Army officer said.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 04 Jan 2016 15:43

Simple motion sensors on top of the 10 ft wall will be a good beginning.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Jan 2016 15:46

Srai

http://investor.textron.com/newsroom/ne ... fault.aspx

member_27581 · Post by **member_27581** » 04 Jan 2016 15:50

srai wrote: Time to load up on Unattended Ground Sensors (UGS) for those areas.

SRai Sir, I am sure all these defensive mechanisms can be circumvented with Soosaidal people crazy people. It will raise the costs on the intruding pigs. I am sure 20 years back when we would have fenced our borders we would felt the same. As long as there are motivated pigs available to do the work cheaply they will always find ways. These porkies are not palestinians who will keep throwing stones or Ughyrs who will fight with knives. With chinese support and their technology in a decade or two they might unleash drones or robots. These terrorists pigs whatever are an extension of Porki establishment.

I hope with all the meetings happening between RM/PM/HM/FM and NSA some action comes. Else we are doomed to see this again and again and cry over 120 pages of this forum every time an attack like this happens.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 04 Jan 2016 15:59

ramana wrote:Also GPS trackers on Police vehicles in J&K and Punjab to show where they are

chetak wrote:A SP has a dedicated driver + vehicle at his beck and call 24x7, 365 days a year and usually a couple more for madam ji and the kids

We don't know if the vehicle used was the actual usual vehicle allotted to the SP. That may have the official driver, wireless sets and the PSO/Gun Man. From what I read in the papers, the PSO/Gun Man was not with him. The vehicle may be a private contracted vehicle, to which the blue beacon was conveniently fixed. But the investigation on what the SP was doing in the vicinity at that time needs to be investigated. He for sure was not on night patrolling or checking the various beats.

ramana wrote:What I was told is Nat grid has uplink of all police stations to Delhi but no sidelinks or down links from Delhi. one way vacuum cleaner.

There are various schemes (CIPA, POLNET) which are all about computerising and networking police stations. And they have all been half-hearted attempts. And even if such a system is in place, every thing cannot be automated. If an FIR itself does not get registered, the chances of the very same police man uploading the same into CIPA or POLNET is going to be very remote. And here it was a case of a Police SP finding himself abducted and phone gone missing. He himself may have used his clout to ensure that no formal complaint is lodged.

habal wrote:1. SP was complicit, no doubt, he was left because he may have been main man of some local level political leader who is complicit in drugs smuggling across border.

For all you know, these could be two separate events. Here is an SP who is in mufti, not in his official car and with none of his team being police men. But yet his vehicle did have a blue beacon (which he would have flashed if normal police patrol was sighted). His noctural visits could be for other reasons, which he ideally could have kept under the wraps. There comes a gang of terrorists who wore army fatigues (to hide, and perhaps that uniform is also familiar in the area) who was looking for a get-away vehicle. The pseudo-police vehicle comes in as a pleasant surprise. The terrorists may have thought that all other chaps except the driver were not even police officers (or very junior officers) going to be of harm. The SP himself may have acted in such a way. They were all chucked out, but the driver had to drive the vehicle and since he would know the true intentions of the terrorists had to be killed.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Jan 2016 16:04

can the BEL BFSR-SR product help in base security like scanning these large uninhabited areas with the base through thick foliage ? this is already used in J&K and perhaps punjab and raj, guj border also.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 04 Jan 2016 16:08

Why can't we just mine (incendiary mines, etc, laced with pork bookd) the border every inch and cameras every 50 metres to verify the destruction of the Jihadis?

Also why are we still giving "Islamic burials" to these Jihadis? Just burn them in pork fat! and get some Maulvi to declare a Fatwa that burned bodies with pork fat are declined in Heaven!

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 04 Jan 2016 16:21

^^ IFF is a huge challenge when using BFSR inside Indian territory. One sees something on the radar screen or thermal imager, but how does one know for sure its an intruder and not your own people combing the grassland.

On the border, its easy - anyone coming from the other side can be shot.

Most Western forces suffer from high friendly fire incidents, that are non-existent in India. Friendly fire is also bad for morale & camaraderie. Completely destroys the trust between personnel.

The Punjab border is not as heavily defended as J&K. There is a fence, and BSF was checking if the fence was OK. One outcome of this incident, as Chief Minister Badal was commenting, was more focus on Punjab IB.

And the Narcotics trade & consumption needs to end. The Pakistanis are doing to Punjab what the British did to Chinese via Opium trade. That should be the first & foremost action. Anyone engaged in the trade needs to be ruthlessly hanged from the nearest lamp post.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Jan 2016 16:38

Jagdish Chand sir was apparently the one who ran, unarmed, after the terrorists, snatched the weapon and killed one of the terrorists. 58 year old fearless warrior.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... -his-life/
http://www.catchnews.com/national-news/ ... 91661.html

These are the kind of men India produces.

skaranam · Post by **skaranam** » 04 Jan 2016 16:39

tsarkar wrote:^^ IFF is a huge challenge when using BFSR inside Indian territory. One sees something on the radar screen or thermal imager, but how does one know for sure its an intruder and not your own people combing the grassland.

On the border, its easy - anyone coming from the other side can be shot.

Most Western forces suffer from high friendly fire incidents, that are non-existent in India. Friendly fire is also bad for morale & camaraderie. Completely destroys the trust between personnel.

The Punjab border is not as heavily defended as J&K. There is a fence, and BSF was checking if the fence was OK. One outcome of this incident, as Chief Minister Badal was commenting, was more focus on Punjab IB.

And the Narcotics trade & consumption needs to end. The Pakistanis are doing to Punjab what the British did to Chinese via Opium trade. That should be the first & foremost action. Anyone engaged in the trade needs to be ruthlessly hanged from the nearest lamp post.

[OT Start]
Reminds me of the movie Commando
[OT End]

madhu · Post by **madhu** » 04 Jan 2016 16:51

Pakistan-backed United Jihad Council's 'Highway Squad' claims responsibility for Pathankot terrorist attack

The Pakistan-backed United Jihad Council claimed that the attack was carried out by the Kashmiri terrorists associated with 'Highway Squad'.

However, the government rubbished claims of United Jihad Council taking responsibility for the Pathankot terrorist attack. "This is deflectionary tactics", the sources said.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 04 Jan 2016 16:53

Karan M wrote:

Jagdish Chand sir was apparently the one who ran, unarmed, after the terrorists, snatched the weapon and killed one of the terrorists. 58 year old fearless warrior.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... -his-life/
http://www.catchnews.com/national-news/ ... 91661.html

These are the kind of men India produces.

RIP , Amazing for a 58 year old to do this knowing the risk involved

member_24684 · Post by **member_24684** » 04 Jan 2016 16:55

.

Huh ..the forgotten story

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 04 Jan 2016 16:56

as posted in previous posts by other members.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/u ... epage=true
United Jihad Council claims responsibility for Pathankot attack

Looks like Pakis have opted to use Kashmiris against the government. More over this group was mainly involved in Kargil too. Their leader Syeed Salahudeen has been marked saying, that ''their group is fighting Pakistan's war in Kashmir.''

He had also threatened Pakistan of consequences if Pakistan stops backing them. (Hizbul Mujahideen)

UJC's prominent and influential members : Lashkar-e-Toiba, Hizb-ul-Mujahideen, Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, Al-Badr and Tehrik-i-Jihad

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 04 Jan 2016 17:03

SanjeevJinoji, for parity, should we not give same amount of time for Modi government to act/react? (Since 26/11 is being compared with Pathankot.).

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 04 Jan 2016 17:07

E-fencing has been in vogue for aeons.The Israelis are experts.I recommended it for a large establishment by a waterbody,where fencing was impractical. What will bring the pigs to heel is deaths on their side of the border. They will then squeal.Unrestricted MBRL and arty firing every time there is a cross-border terror is high-value mil and terror targets.the way to go. Even air-launched stand-off PGMs to eliminate high-value mil and terror targets.Once the Pakis lose a few starred officers,you will see their bluff and bluster evaporate. They have forgotten the lessons of '48,'65,'71 and Kargil and sadly must re-learn them.

Dear PM,you have no option other than to plan for war. In every respect we are already at war with Pak.