Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

[Singha]

good to see that atleast some of the bsf/police network is under deep investigation and will be rolled up or forced to lie low and curtail their business venture. and the internal saboteur too. this matter is being taken very seriously from PMO level it seems. any tier1 political backers will quickly distance themselves from mid-level operators and protect their own hides if IB/NIA comes calling with a long stick.

this will reduce the risk of more attacks into that patch.

[ramana]

KaranM, In a way the four terrorists being the decoys for the other two + two still at large could be the reason why "control' was upset with the four per phone intercepts. The attacking force was already near target while these guys were delayed by the Innova taxi driver action.

I am also thinking that the overall command was a rolling one based on the situation at the time. I am impressed with the NSG Maj Gen who went from 26 Div command to head NSG. Wow!!!! What was his background!
I am happy with Western Command and AOC letting the right people call shots instead of being Nimrods because of 'seenearity'.

The whiners are on the seenearity binge.

Same folks claim the optimum force should be used and when its done want to criticize claiming why was so and so not in charge!!!!


rajanb, its getting tiresome. If you can t contribute anything more than disparage the efforts or demand sources please consider yourself on notice.

Look at ldev he went and found which "markaz' was at play. And could be wrong. But he is contributing. You on the other hand or not.

Either participate by bringing info/data or take it easy.

Not being more harsh because of your seniority.
BTW, despite that Philip gets whacked all the time.

[shaun]

I have question in my mind.. Pics of those 4 pigs were posted on BRF few days ago. After looking at those pics again I am having some serious doubts. How come a booby trap blast so powerful that it almost ripped of half the face and both hands of Lt Col Niranjan, blew away hand of another NSG commando and injured 4 others left the body of pig without any scratch??

1st pic ,i guess , rest of its body is missing .

[Vayutuvan]

Nawaz does not disappoint Modi.

ABP News (@abpnewstv) tweeted at 8:11 PM on Fri, Jan 08, 2016:

Proofs given by India not enough: Pak sources
(https://twitter.com/abpnewstv/status/68 ... 08640?s=03)

When is the 72 hr deadline going to be up? I am thinking sometime tomorrow. This could be a delaying tactic from the purelanders. Deadline gets extended and they also get more tactical/operational info plus Indian elint/humint capabilities.

[Chinmayanand]

ABP News (@abpnewstv) tweeted at 4:53 PM on Fri, Jan 08, 2016:

Indo-Pak Foreign Secretary-level talks to be held tentatively on Jan. 15
https://t.co/8a5khaS9h4
(https://twitter.com/abpnewstv/status/68 ... 81794?s=03)

Looks like NOTA is being thrust down the throat for 2019.

[Amber G.]

Looks uncanningly like K9 we once had....

One of "soldier" from canine (K9) squad which was pressed into service by the NSG.

(Link: picture from <this story section "K9s on Site">)




Added later: (Doing some checking, it looks like the picture used by thequint was a Public Domain Image from acclaimimages.com and not the picture of one of "half a dozen K9" Used by NSG).

[Raja Bose]

I have question in my mind.. Pics of those 4 pigs were posted on BRF few days ago. After looking at those pics again I am having some serious doubts. How come a booby trap blast so powerful that it almost ripped of half the face and both hands of Lt Col Niranjan, blew away hand of another NSG commando and injured 4 others left the body of pig without any scratch??

Wher did you get this info? The NSG K9 handler was hospitalized with splinter injuries to one leg and knee as per the admittance list.

[shaun]

one of the MPVs

[SRoy]

These guys broke in and then trekked across to get to the tech area but the DSC portion was in the way. So either they were challenged & broke the firefight OR they saw an easy target (DSC mess) and gave away their presence.

If these guys had come to hit IAF assets, then the DSC event was an error. Of course call to mummy speaks volumes about level of training. More likely, they were spotted and had to shoot their way out. Still they lost one bhench*d Pakistani Islamic terrorist because of a brave unarmed man.

108++ Yes, yes and yes. Exactly. Failed op.

[member_29151]

AS These terror Camp Continue to function across the border these attacks may continue . we need to splatter some heads of Pakistan Army and ISI and Bring the terror to these terrorist Camps People. until unless the swords flows through these physcopath Heads nothing is gonna Change. Need to Repeat Myanmar.

[ldev]

Some more information on the Tablighi Jamaat and why Nawaz Sharif may not take action against it:

Yet, the Pakistani experience strips the patina from Tablighi Jamaat's façade. Pakistani prime minister Nawaz Sharif (1990-93; 1997-99), whose father was a prominent Tablighi member and financier, helped Tablighi members take prominent positions.[4] For example, in 1998, Muhammad Rafique Tarar took the ceremonial presidency while, in 1990, Javed Nasir assumed the powerful director-generalship of the Inter-Services Intelligence, Pakistan's chief intelligence agency. When Benazir Bhutto, less sympathetic to Islamist causes, returned to the premiership in 1993, Tablighis conspired to overthrow her government. In 1995, the Pakistani army thwarted a coup attempt by several dozen high-ranking military officers and civilians, all of whom were members of the Tablighi Jamaat and some of whom also held membership in Harakat ul-Mujahideen, a U.S. State Department-defined terrorist organization.[5] Some of the confusion over Tablighi Jamaat's apolitical characterization derives from the fact that the movement does not consider individual states to be legitimate.

Tablighi Jamaat: Islam's Stealthy Legions

This article was written before Nawaz Sharif came back to power most recently. But given his family's prominent role in the spread and financing of the Tablighi Jamaat, will Nawaz Sharif really want to move against them, if indeed they are behind Pathankot?

The creed grew in importance after Pakistani military dictator Zia ul-Haq encouraged Deobandis to Islamize Pakistan.

The Tablighi Jamaat canon is bare-boned. Apart from the Qu'ran, the only literature Tablighis are required to read are the Tablighi Nisab, seven essays penned by a companion of Ilyas in the 1920s. Tablighi Jamaat is not a monolith: one subsection believes they should pursue jihad through conscience (jihad bin nafs) while a more radical wing advocates jihad through the sword (jihad bin saif).[8] But, in practice, all Tablighis preach a creed that is hardly distinguishable from the radical Wahhabi-Salafi jihadist ideology that so many terrorists share.

[ramana]

We need Indian scholars to look at these outfits and express views. An Anglo Saxon approach wont help.

[Karan M]

That point can be attributed to the hindsight of all of us, who were neither leading the ops or involved in those decisions.

All this excellence business sounds good in theory. But at the end of the day, what counts is speed of response & "best is the enemy of good". Or "a stitch in time, saves even the perfect nine".

It sadly, points to a country with a soft underbelly. One will only realise the pain, when one loses a human asset close to them.

Sirji, there are many folks on this forum and lets not go into many human assets they know and were related to who served etc..

At any rate, practical responses count for 10x more than theory.. and i heard much the same about the PM...glowing report about the change in the way things are run in dilli's babucracy...which I'll post on in the relevant thread..

Moving on, is the Paki response going to be any different than before?

They will escalate. We have to plan accordingly. Indian PMs (bar 2) so far have been constantly afraid of the escalation ladder..

[partha]

These guys broke in and then trekked across to get to the tech area but the DSC portion was in the way. So either they were challenged & broke the firefight OR they saw an easy target (DSC mess) and gave away their presence.

If these guys had come to hit IAF assets, then the DSC event was an error. Of course call to mummy speaks volumes about level of training. More likely, they were spotted and had to shoot their way out. Still they lost one bhench*d Pakistani Islamic terrorist because of a brave unarmed man.

I have a question here. According to this blog - http://nitinagokhale.blogspot.com/2016/ ... ponse.html , by Jan 1st 3PM, there was specific intel about the attack and NSG was alerted. By Jan 1st 9PM, tech area was secured, Jan 2nd 3AM, DSC mess was attacked where the DSC personnel were unarmed. The question is why unarmed? Since there was specific intel about the attack the day before, shouldn't the whole base have been on alert?

[SRoy]

I have a question here. According to this blog - http://nitinagokhale.blogspot.com/2016/ ... ponse.html , by Jan 1st 3PM, there was specific intel about the attack and NSG was alerted. By Jan 1st 9PM, tech area was secured, Jan 2nd 3AM, DSC mess was attacked where the DSC personnel were unarmed. The question is why unarmed? Since there was specific intel about the attack the day before, shouldn't the whole base have been on alert?

I simply don't understand why this question is cropping up every now and than.

Please look at the location of the DSC mess.

Intruders were already spotted and due to that they either tried to break out or tried to make a dash towards the technical area. The DSC mess falls somewhere there.

What if they attacked residential buildings? Airmen's mess? Do we then ask as why the lascars were not armed or why the airmen's wives and kids were not armed?

Why an off duty personnel has to be armed?

Can't say how it is done currently, but have seen numerous such alert situations while at AFS SriNagar, all and sundry are not armed.

Ridiculous.

[jamwal]

And here we have a former army general turned aaptard who writes a "private" letter to a fellow officer claiming all kind of bullshit like blaming Doval. Later on "leaks" or shares it to AAPiya mouthpiece. If it is true, this Panag along with his fellow aaptards involved in publishing this so called private letter should be tried in civil court or at least given a few "jhappds"


Bloody idiots will not stop playing extremely cheap politics even during such times. Even the Laaloo whom they abused to win a few seats showed more wisdom andngrace than these idiots.

[ramana]

DSC mess was attacked where the DSC personnel were unarmed. The question is why unarmed?

Please look at the many maps posted. The DSC mess house cooks were making tea at that time for the relief group. Despite that one of the DSC seized the terrorist weapon and killed him.

Next time even the sweepers will carry guns.

also the expected attack was at the gates as has been the past modus operandi. The technical areas and the staff quarters were secured.
When the enemy was noted by helicopters imaging the patrol was sent and first contact happened.

[partha]

I have a question here. According to this blog - http://nitinagokhale.blogspot.com/2016/ ... ponse.html , by Jan 1st 3PM, there was specific intel about the attack and NSG was alerted. By Jan 1st 9PM, tech area was secured, Jan 2nd 3AM, DSC mess was attacked where the DSC personnel were unarmed. The question is why unarmed? Since there was specific intel about the attack the day before, shouldn't the whole base have been on alert?

I simply don't understand why this question is cropping up every now and than.

Please look at the location of the DSC mess.

Intruders were already spotted and due to that they either tried to break out or tried to make a dash towards the technical area. The DSC mess falls somewhere there.

What if they attacked residential buildings? Airmen's mess? Do we then ask as why the lascars were not armed or why the airmen's wives and kids were not armed?

No. In that case the question doesn't arise because they are not DSC.

Why an off duty personnel has to be armed?

Considering it was an emergency situation..

[Picklu]

Failed op.

I guess it is a mixed bag given the current information. They may have failed in their final objective but in one sense those ******** succeeded the moment the first round was fired in our land. Need to take it out on their land, their home, their family.

[Picklu]

I have one more doubt.

We have heard that 5th and 6th have died in explosion but there is no body recovered so far. Is it possible for those 2 to get way via tibri? ......

[SRoy]

Partha

Station was on alert. As I have said above arms are not issued to everyone. Which also means it is perfectly okay if off duty guards were not carrying arms.

Maybe in future.

[kit]

What's this joint statement by isi and both the sharifs condemning the attack ?? ..buying time for another circus ? !

[partha]

Partha

Station was on alert. As I have said above arms are not issued to everyone. Which also means it is perfectly okay if off duty guards were not carrying arms.

Maybe in future.

I see, thanks. I asked that question as a casual observer, out of curiosity and not as a security expert.

[SRoy]

Failed op.

I guess it is a mixed bag given the current information. They may have failed in their final objective but in one sense those ******** succeeded the moment the first round was fired in our land. Need to take it out on their land, their home, their family.

It is then a question of robust border management and efficiency of local agencies like state police. BSF and state Police.

[Picklu]

It is then a question of robust border management and efficiency of local agencies like state police. BSF and state Police.

And a covert offensive arm. No border mgmt is more efficient than the self policing by the enemy.

[srai]

Failed op.

I guess it is a mixed bag given the current information. They may have failed in their final objective but in one sense those ******** succeeded the moment the first round was fired in our land. Need to take it out on their land, their home, their family.

Trickling in from post investigation are details on the level of corruption along the border areas. BSF, police and politicians were taking cuts from smugglers to allow them through. One BSF jawan has been arrested for taking Rs. 50,000 per safe passage. Two lights/TI equipment were put out of commission along the infiltration point. It is likely the SP and his jeweler friend were there to pick up "regular" consignment in an official vehicle, which allowed them to bypass security checkpoints. In any case, these guys they have caught are small frys; there are bigger frys above them.

Then, there were also inside elements in the armed forces (or hired contractors) who were being paid to provide info and shelter to the attackers. One IAF personnel had been arrested earlier. The section were the terrorists entered had their floodlights upturned. Given the amount of weapons and ammunition part of it could have been brought in and stored earlier along with two terrioists who were already inside for a much longer period of time. One Army's MES employee is being suspected for aiding the attackers.

So IMO, more than new gadgets/training there is a need to weed out corrupt people along the border areas. They are really the ones that made the attack possible in the first place. Without their support the terrioists wouldn't have made it to the AFS, let alone inside it.

[member_29218]

primus ji..dont fly so much on hot gas!! the pakis do well know what the C 130 can do and cant do. no body is as dumb. they have a fairly good fix on the capabilities and this is why its important to have indigenous products. local R&D.

I am not referring to a particular post. Just a general observation. I will withdraw my statement if the consensus is that everything said here is already known to the enemy.

I agree that it is vital to develop products that are indigenous and thus unique - no need to worry about supply of parts running out or the need to pay huge sums of money to another country. I fully support India's efforts in the Defense R&D arena. Just FYI my Dad worked all his life for the DRDO. Can't mention any details here.

[Surya]

Amber- source for K9 picture?

[Pranay]

http://www.outlookindia.com/article/ski ... ues/296358

Much before the 168 men of the National Sec­urity Guard (NSG), ordered in by Natio­nal Secur­ity Advisor Ajit Doval, landed at Pathankot air force base in the eve­n­­ing of January 1, the terrorists who struck in the wee hours of the next day were already inside and biding their time. They had scaled the 11 feet high perimeter wall, possibly in separate groups of two and four. While the group of four was in a forested area of the base, the other two who entered—most lik­ely on the intervening night of January 31-1—hid in a truck in the parking area of the base, where scores of vehicles are stationed. They obviously knew beforehand that the vehicles parked in this particular area of the base are not used on a regular basis and they could remain there undetected. Who told them?

It is these two who emerged later—some time after the Union home minister had mistakenly declared the operation “finis­hed” on January 2—and re-engaged the tro­­ops from a two-storey building on the base. Some brazen reports even suggest that they ate undetected at the airmen’s mess and rested for a while in empty airmen’s barr­acks. The terrorists used the concrete cupboards and steel doors of the building to shield themselves from the conventional fire power coming their way, and it necessitated an attack by a BMP to bring down the building itself to eliminate them. Six terrorists in all were killed in an operation that lasted for almost three days.Seven security personnel died, including Lt Col Niranjan Kumar of the NSG’s bomb squad. Though the operation at the air force base is over, it’s still not clear if more terrorists are at large, for the initial intelligence input poin­ted to an infiltration by 15 terrorists. Even as this story goes to print, security forces are searching another vill­age in Gurdaspur where suspicious men in army fatigues were sighted in the fields.

[srai]

Partha

Station was on alert. As I have said above arms are not issued to everyone. Which also means it is perfectly okay if off duty guards were not carrying arms.

Maybe in future.

I see, thanks. I asked that question as a casual observer, out of curiosity and not as a security expert.

One of the reports mentioned that 4 DSC were killed as they rushed to get into the mess area by a grenade, which could have been booby trapped, or UBGL launched, or thrown. Not clear if those 4 DSCs were armed or not, but they were facing well-trained spec ops type of terrorists and would have been hard to avoid casualties once they were already inside the perimeter. Contrary to some journos saying only if more army troops had been involved there would have been less casualties, some casualties would have been impossible to avoid. In Kashmir, for example, the army regularly loses soldiers and SF personnel to these well trained terrorists. Luck plays on both sides in close encounters. So it's unfair to call ex-servicemen DSCs to be not competent as portraited by some media.

[manjgu]

there are limited no of guns which get rotated between DSC guards.. as they change shifts.

[shaun]

like I said before , GARUDS are trained and armed to teeth , specially for such operation , I was wondering what went wrong for them to take one sided casualties. Well , if your own people betrays you (here the iaf guy who is under investigation ) no amount of training , preparedness , equipment can prevent such eventualities. We should take pride that even a newly raised unit can fight back with such tactical acumen, ferocity and sacrifices .

[Prem]

Shiv AroorVerified account
‏@ShivAroor
Big newsbreak @ 10pm: BSF soldiers arrested by Punjab Police admit to helping drug & weapons smugglers from Pakistan. @RahulKanwal reports.

[shiv]

Why an off duty personnel has to be armed?

Considering it was an emergency situation..

This is a heads you win tails they lose situation. If you read media reports the security staff are being severely criticized for not having procedures for emergencies and having to improvise for a situation. And here you are asking why procedure was followed - because, depending on the alert level off duty personnel may not be required to carry arms for a tea/toilet break

You can't win. Everything is wrong. The questions I have read on BRF over the years are so amazing. Once someone asked "Why 200 men for 2 terrorists?"

Someone else asks "Only two terrorists? Why did they kill three people?"

I am not sure that people actually stop to think. When people ask about procedures do people understand that there are procedures for almost all events that can be predicted but there cannot be procedures for events that cannot always be predicted.

For example - one is driving through thick forest in western ghats, 2 hours away from any detination and your 5 year old kid wants to pee? What is the procedure? Stop. Get off. take off his pants and let him pee. What if he accidentally trips on a root and falls and cuts his forehead and it starts bleeding? What is the procedure? Normal procedure would be to take him to the emergency room. Why would one not follow that procedure for one's child? Is that child abuse?

[Amber G.]

Amber- source for K9 picture?

I edited the post to include the link - the original story has also been posted in the thread: (Link: picture from <this story section "K9s on Site">)
Added later: (Doing some checking, it looks like the picture used by thequint was a Public Domain Image from acclaimimages.com and not the actual picture of one of "half a dozen K9 Used by NSG).

[Pratyush]

Reading posts on the thread, makes one wonder, if that baki field marshal was right. That hindu moral will crumble with one solid kick. Or some such action. Here we have a foiled op with unavoidable losses and people are cribbing about arming off duty personal and cooks.

Gentlemen please think for a moment before asking for such measures. As any force that is surprised will take losses at first contact. That is the nature of such things. What is important is how the force responded to the situation after first contact situation.

Think about it. It is an unqualified success and speakes highly of the training and competence of the personal on the ground.

[Thakur_B]

Amber- source for K9 picture?

I edited the post to include the link - the original story has also been posted in the thread: (Link: picture from <this story section "K9s on Site">)
Added later: (Doing some checking, it looks like the picture used by thequint was a Public Domain Image from acclaimimages.com and not the actual picture of one of "half a dozen K9 Used by NSG).

Some pictures of NSG K9 from recent drills. Very TFTA.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/thre ... st-1116054

[shiv]

Reading posts on the thread, makes one wonder, if that baki field marshal was right. That hindu moral will crumble with one solid kick. Or some such action. Here we have a foiled op with unavoidable losses and people are cribbing about arming off duty personal and cooks.

That aside - the focus is always internal It's always about us. its always about "Hum ko man ki shakti dena, Doosro ki jai ke pehle khud to jai kare". Conquer yourself first. Endure till you are perfect and cannot be blamed. All in the name of constructive criticism. Like "good terror" and "rape with love"

But what about Pakistan?

[kit]

I suppose the NSA did not trust anyone else from the looks of it .. other than the NSG ..

[manjgu]

@primus ji.. . folks on the forum hardly know much abt capabilities of def forces except what is gleaned in media/public forums, domain. the Pakis will have a very precise understanding of IAF capabilties, (C 130 Ti can look up X km with resolution YY .. i mean they will have very precise figures..what is their serviceability rates etc..) and vice versa. the air intelligence is dedicated to such tasks. @Shaun ..why Garuds took a hit is something which we cant really know.. maybe the terrorists saw the garuds coming from far and set up a ambush... maybe the terrorists has cover the garuds didnt have..were more exposed.. all this can be only told by someone who was there...rest all is speculation