LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

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shiv
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by shiv »

nirav wrote:
Karan M wrote:Chor ke dadi main tinka? Afraid of being upstaged by Tejas? H&D protection?
Looks like. Its very strange for Pakis to fly the bandars to Bahrain but not take part in the flying display.

I was actually looking forward to see the bandar fly.
Would have given great stuff for Shiv Saar to make his comparo vid ..
LOL I have actually made a few khujli causing vids
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXT3ob1xDqg


Also
LCA (Tejas), JF-17 Thunder turn rate, roll rate and loop comparison
and
LCA (Tejas), J-10 and JF-17 airshow performance comparison
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by nirav »

Yes, and the Bahrain one would have been better as a result of further opening up of flight envelope ..

It was reported that the LCA is going to put on an aggressive flying display.

Side by side comparo with the bandar could turn the green greener .. :mrgreen:
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by SaiK »

“The next firing is part of the FOC point that Tejas need to clear. We will be testing for the accuracy of the missiles this time. The captured data will be validated as per the FOC requirement,” says an official.......

In addition to Derby and Python, the weapon pack of Tejas includes Russian-made CCM R-73, laser-guided bombs (LGB) Griffin and Paveway and Russian-made CCM R-73, laser-guided bombs (LGB) Griffin and Paveway and Russian-made gun Gsh-23.

The CCM R-73 has been fired over a dozen times now at Goa, Jaisalmer and Jamnagar as part of the weapon trials of Tejas over the years. ......

Read more at: http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/ind ... s-1.795581
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by SidSom »

Has Tejas reached BIAS yet... First onsite posting ??
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by uddu »

Shivji, its time that you make videos of Tejas Vs EF, Rafale comparisons and forget about Bhandars and since you have a point in making such a video, you could try Bhandar vs Mig-21 :)
Last edited by uddu on 14 Jan 2016 10:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by uddu »

Especially Costs, BVR capability and comparison of BVR missiles weapons etc and overall capability will be really nice to see with regard to EF and Rafale.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Cain Marko »

Nick_S wrote:Good news. BVR test firing soon after Bahrain airshow (more info in link).

Tejas may fire Derby, Python missiles in Jamnagar on return from Bahrain......

Image
Both planes were scheduled to leave the base today enroute to Muscat and finally to the Sakhir Airbase in Bahrain.......
Distance from jamnagar to muscat is 1184.95 kilometers. This air travel distance is equal to 736.29 miles.
http://www.distancefromto.net/distance- ... /to/muscat
^THIS. India desperately needs the Tejas to achieve FOC, and quickly too - it is terrible that the milestone has again been pushed forward.....
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by putnanja »

Tarmak007 is reporting that its being ferried to Bahrain!
‪#‎JustIn‬ ‪#‎Tejas‬ LSP4 & LSP7 ferried to Muscat. History in making as 1st time an Indian-made fighter jet flies over foreign skies @BahAirshow
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by shiv »

uddu wrote:Shivji, its time that you make videos of Tejas Vs EF, Rafale comparisons and forget about Bhandars and since you have a point in making such a video, you could try Bhandar vs Mig-21 :)
:lol:

Uddu I have already done JF 17 vs MiG 21 - but that was a time when I was still figuring out how to do such videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FvsVxwv79U

I have also done Tejas vs Gripen that you may have seen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoV-Xx3B8NM
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

tarmak.
https://twitter.com/writetake
Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas is likely to test-fire Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM) Derby and Close Combat Missile (CCM) Python-5 (both from Israel) for the first time in Jamnagar.
Sources confirmed to Mathrubhumi on Wednesday that the firing of Derby and Python missiles were originally planned during this week when two Tejas were halting at the Air Force Station Jamnagar.
Two Tejas LSP-4 and LSP-7 were stationed at Jamnagar for a week after they were ferried from Bengaluru on January 5.
As reported by Mathrubhumi recently, Tejas will be demonstrating its dogfight capabilities at the Bahrain International Air Show (BIAS-2016) scheduled from January 21-23.
http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/ind ... s-1.770464
The test-firing of the missiles have been rescheduled after the two aircraft return from BIAS-2016. Both planes were scheduled to leave the base today enroute to Muscat and finally to the Sakhir Airbase in Bahrain.
Tejas’ participation has already caught the attention of international media with Pakistan too sending its JF-17s Thunder aircraft for the show.
Interestingly, both Tejas and JF-17s have been allotted the same apron (Pad No 15) at BIAS-2016. Typhoons from Royal Air Force will also be giving company to the fighters from India and Pakistan on the same parking bay.
While BIAS-2016 will be the first international outing for Tejas, Pakistan’s JF-17, co-developed along with the Chinese, have already been to couple of air shows.
Tejas is awaiting its Final Operational Clearance (FOC) ahead of its induction into the Indian Air Force (IAF) in mid-2016, while JF-17s have already been flying in Pakistan Air Force colours from 2010.
“The next firing is part of the FOC point that Tejas need to clear. We will be testing for the accuracy of the missiles this time. The captured data will be validated as per the FOC requirement,” says an official.
He said the decision to postpone the test was taken after both aircraft had to be made available for a series of Customs clearance formalities ahead of Bahrain trip.
“Now, we hope to schedule the trials on its return from Bahrain. Our technical teams (around 150) are already stationed here (Jamnagar), Muscat and Bahrain. The telemetry station has also been set up at Bahrain,” says the official.
In addition to Derby and Python, the weapon pack of Tejas includes Russian-made CCM R-73, laser-guided bombs (LGB) Griffin and Paveway and Russian-made gun Gsh-23.

The CCM R-73 has been fired over a dozen times now at Goa, Jaisalmer and Jamnagar as part of the weapon trials of Tejas over the years. Tejas platforms are expected to be back from Bahrain to Jamnagar base on January 23
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

no other ac in history has entered its first squadron service with so much already proven n times.

only the arjun can compete with tejas
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

This is going to be an historic moment for Indian aviation. The HF-24 was an aircraft also worthy of being exported. I wonder why it was not thought of at that time.Several Asian air forces would've been interested. Perhaps now once it flies at the air show,many friends of India from the developing world with tight budgets from S.America to Asia will look upon it kindly.The SLAF could be our first export customer.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

it all depends on whims and mercies of the engine supplier - same issue with marut upengine project itself. for instance SL could be booed out for hooman rights issue esp by any euro vendor(unless they directly buy some euro product and "create jobs")
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Sid »

Yes, from export potential of this aircraft we are in same boat as KAI T-50. We won't be able to sell wherever America or Israel are not in comfort zone.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by A Sharma »

putnanja wrote:Tarmak007 is reporting that its being ferried to Bahrain!
‪#‎JustIn‬ ‪#‎Tejas‬ LSP4 & LSP7 ferried to Muscat. History in making as 1st time an Indian-made fighter jet flies over foreign skies @BahAirshow
Are they flying to Muscat or ferried in C-17?
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by uddu »

If ferried then Two C-17's will be required. Hope atleast on the way back they fly all the distance from Muscat to Jamnagar on their own. Lot of gain in it, if we can accomplish that.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Shreeman »

kiran, ajeet certainly went to farnborough etc. did marut never go? Otherwise I am not sure why there is any history in the making.

the richard measurement of sending the lca even at the cost of delaying foc is inexplicable and those itching for 1000+ mile ferry before production stabilizes are simply wishing for a crash.

responsible management just doesnt exist anymore. what exactly will the bahrain show achieve?
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by srai »

A Sharma wrote:{quote="putnanja"}Tarmak007 is reporting that its being ferried to Bahrain!
‪#‎JustIn‬ ‪#‎Tejas‬ LSP4 & LSP7 ferried to Muscat. History in making as 1st time an Indian-made fighter jet flies over foreign skies @BahAirshow
{/quote}

Are they flying to Muscat or ferried in C-17?
No. Ferry flying refers to getting from point A to point B using max external fuel tanks. The LCA has a ferry range of around 1700km. I think Muscat is around 1200km from Jamnagar so easily doable.

Besides, you wouldn't want to disassemble a plane and then reassemble a plane and expect it to fly in that short of a timeframe and that too without the infrastructure support. For a dummy aircraft you could do that for static display purposes.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

the tejas (wingspan 8.2m) will not fit inside the c17 cargo (5.5 meter width) . they will fly over the sea.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

per tarmak tweet 8hrs ago, the two planes have reached muscat in oman. either they flew up to bahrain today or will tomorrow. the 2nd leg will be overland or near the short and around 900km from muscat to bahrain.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by srai »

Shreeman wrote:kiran, ajeet certainly went to farnborough etc. did marut never go? Otherwise I am not sure why there is any history in the making.

the richard measurement of sending the lca even at the cost of delaying foc is inexplicable and those itching for 1000+ mile ferry before production stabilizes are simply wishing for a crash.

responsible management just doesnt exist anymore. what exactly will the bahrain show achieve?
Moral and confidence booster :) It will be a proud moment for the scientists/engineers/managers/pilots/GoI who slaved over decades to get to this point.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

note sure if muscat or bahrain but MOD spokesman has put up photos

Image

Image
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Paul »

Image

Display Line up in Bahrein
Last edited by Paul on 14 Jan 2016 20:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by srai »

From a ferry range flying point of view, LCAs have been doing that regularly all over India from its base in Bangalore. Nothing too different flying to Muscat and to Bahrain IMO.

Check out some of the distances between various places we have seen LCA:
  • Bangalore <-> Leh (stop-over required though)
  • Bangalore <-> Jamnagar
  • Bangalore <-> Nagpur
  • Bangalore <-> Goa
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

that is wingco J Maolankar on the left per older pics.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

srai for flying over the sea with no landmarks or diversion airports nearby (and no AAR possible!), navigational instruments have some special benchmarks...i read the british apache helis that operate from their LHD ships had some avionics changes for over sea role vs vanilla land ones. like some kinda system to home in blindly on radio beacons from ships . more robust blind flying systems....

in one instance a formation of khan raptors flying west over the IDT hit a software bug in that nav instruments , fortunately the accompanying tanker had older 'trailing edge' more analog kit that worked just fine and with a turnback decision made, shepherded them safely back to base.

500km out over the sea is a bad time to hit 'corner cases' like this :oops:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/f22 ... ine-03087/

Sheppard (ret.): “…At the international date line, whoops, all systems dumped and when I say all systems, I mean all systems, their navigation, part of their communications, their fuel systems. :oops: They were — they could have been in real trouble. They were with their tankers. The tankers – they tried to reset their systems, couldn’t get them reset. The tankers brought them back to Hawaii. This could have been real serious. It certainly could have been real serious if the weather had been bad. It turned out OK. It was fixed in 48 hours. It was a computer glitch in the millions of lines of code, somebody made an error in a couple lines of the code and everything goes.

[snip]

SHEPPERD: Absolutely. When you think of airplanes from the old days, with cables and that type of thing and direct connections between the sticks and the yolks and the controls, not that way anymore. Everything is by computer. When your computers go, your airplanes go. You have multiple systems. When they all dump at the same time, you can be in real trouble. Luckily this turned out OK.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Shreeman »

srai wrote:
Shreeman wrote:kiran, ajeet certainly went to farnborough etc. did marut never go? Otherwise I am not sure why there is any history in the making.

the richard measurement of sending the lca even at the cost of delaying foc is inexplicable and those itching for 1000+ mile ferry before production stabilizes are simply wishing for a crash.

responsible management just doesnt exist anymore. what exactly will the bahrain show achieve?
Moral and confidence booster :) It will be a proud moment for the scientists/engineers/managers/pilots/GoI who slaved over decades to get to this point.
srai,

It will be richard measurement for you. No developer is dumb enough to display their hide and blood sweat and tears at some random camel fair when the prpject is 15 years behind schedule. This has nothing to do with pride of the makers.

As for morale, are you sure crossing your fingers for weeks that somebody doesnt sabotage a test article and set you back by years worth the confidence boost? You do understand the entire routine has been practiced for weeks over HAL, doing it once more in front of some towelies doesnt impart any greater confidence.

The proud moment ought to be squad. formation. This is a stalling tactic. You know it. The makers know it too.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by shiv »

Bahrain is much closer to sea level than Bangalore and Jan-Feb day temperatures are lower than Banaglore. That means good dense atmosphere - great for aerial displays.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by srai »

Shreeman, you are of course entitled to your opinion :)
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

jamnagar being tacde has the ACMI ground and air based systems needed for mock fights and tracking to see how the missiles are guided out to the manouvering targets. this is different from just locking on to some sedate drone over the sea off goa and putting it down, blind fires or carriage trials.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Shreeman »

shiv,

May be so. But isnt the AF day only weeks away now? Ought not the focus be there? The sitara is flying, probably a closer match to the thundaar anyway. Send that. It is a show plane via the original surya kiran plan. It did AI displays countless times. Why the LCA? That production line will not fulfill indian orders in the next decade, there is no scope for LCA exports. bahrain is NO Farnborough or Paris.

Whos ego got massaged here? If you wanted to send it abroad, surely there were better debut locations. Opening your picture in jhumri tallaya is no red carpet event.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by PratikDas »

Nitin Gokhale on Twitter:
@nitingokhale:Both aircraft landed perfectly at Bahrain at 1650 local time after a brief stopover at Muscat for refuel.
No C-17 here.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by arijitkm »

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Shreeman »

srai wrote:Shreeman, you are of course entitled to your opinion :)
Indeed, and I realize its futility. Yes, "we are like this onlee" and "its a lungi dance moment" and watch out for the hakims new turn by turn comparison videos.

Image management is no substitute for real quantity or quality. Parking it next to thundaar is no feather in anyones cap. Anyone who has done a trade show will second the exhausting toll it takes on the display team and test articles. It is no walk in the park for AI exhibiters if visitors find it hard to handle bangalore weather or food or bathroom situation.

It was unreasonable thing to do. Now cross your fingers and wait for better news in 2017!
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by PratikDas »

Image

Image

Image
Nitin Gokhale
@nitingokhale: LCA pilots with local officials in Bahrain
Captain DK Sharma
Spokesperson & PRO (Navy)
@CaptDKS: @nitingokhale These two Naval Test Pilots are on deputation to ADA Bangalore. Commodore J Maolankar & Captain Sharad Dahiya
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

nice move there - the IN origin test pilots would already be grizzled vets of sea harrier ops and years of oversea flying.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Zynda »

I have to mention that pilots & gear look very TFTA not to mention the euphoria of seeing our Tejas on foreign soil. I hope the flying display will be sharp & tight...will uplift our jingo's spirit.

Edit: I am sure ADA would be mounting a camera at various points on Tejas to capture the display/performance of the same during display. Can't wait for the video to come out. Are any of the journos from private channels (Vishnu Som, Shiv Aroor et al) and/or aero photo enthusiasts like Vishal attending the airshow?
Last edited by Zynda on 14 Jan 2016 21:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by Karan M »

Indeed. Silly comments putting down Shivs videos or downplaying the importance of an event like this are irrelevant. Tejas at an airshow abroad & showing its maneuverability speaks a lot for modern India's capabilities despite all the effort to run down the program and its makers.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by brar_w »

There is also immense domestic importance to an Indian designed, Indian-built fighter performing maneuvers at a foreign air-show.
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Post by srai »

Shreeman wrote:
srai wrote:Shreeman, you are of course entitled to your opinion :)
Indeed, and I realize its futility. Yes, "we are like this onlee" and "its a lungi dance moment" and watch out for the hakims new turn by turn comparison videos.

Image management is no substitute for real quantity or quality. Parking it next to thundaar is no feather in anyones cap. Anyone who has done a trade show will second the exhausting toll it takes on the display team and test articles. It is no walk in the park for AI exhibiters if visitors find it hard to handle bangalore weather or food or bathroom situation.

It was unreasonable thing to do. Now cross your fingers and wait for better news in 2017!
Bro, what's with the constant doom and gloom. Let's be optimistic and positive for a change. There has been way too much pessimism and criticism IMO. Why not celebrate achievements (however small they may seem) and throw praise once in a while too :)
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