LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

disha · Post by **disha** » 17 Jan 2016 21:19

Gagan wrote:LCA for export is going to be a difficult proposition.
India does not make any weaponsystems except dumb bombs. The radar is israeli, the engine is american.
The BVR missile is israeli or russian - it is going to be difficult to find buyers for a system with so many varied sources.
I mean this all works out for the IAF for the time being, but for a middle eastern and an african and a SE asian nation? Difficult to manage.

China OTOH prolly offers a full range of weapon systems with the Bunders, still can't buyers, because it is such a crappy product.

I will be surprised if any one of the following Vietnam, Burma, Laos, Thailand will depend upon China to provide them a fighter jet. Each of them may be looking to buy at least a squadron of LCA.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 17 Jan 2016 21:21

An extra 0.5 mtr would have made it even more of a looker..

disha · Post by **disha** » 17 Jan 2016 21:24

Just highlighting the parts which I agree on in Mortji's post.

Mort Walker wrote: India is paying the French for logistics support which raises unit cost of the Rafale coming entirely out of CAPEX. The Tejas already has logistics support included in the operations and maintenance part of the defence budget, therefore CAPEX is $25 million.
Spending upto $10 billion on the Rafale makes no sense as there is no indication it will be available in any significant numbers in terms of availability by 2020 or even 2022. Between 2020 and 2022 India will have significant LCA development and manufacturing experience. It can employ several thousands of Indians in the aerospace industry IF the IAF is committed and forced by GoI to accept 20 squadrons of the Tejas.

Anyway, I love the plane and would like to see it flying in numbers.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Jan 2016 21:24

Singha wrote:he has a great camera for sure, I wish he had video taped it from his DLSR...but perhaps some restrictions are in place there to prevent spoilers outside of the official event media.

And hefty deltoids to hold up those massive lenses he uses

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Jan 2016 21:26

I saw on Twitter that JF-17 has pulled out of the show? Any info?

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 17 Jan 2016 21:35

http://www.bahraininternationalairshow. ... _trade.pdf
See Hangars 1,9 and 15

108 Aircraft are now confimed to be participating at the Bahrain International Airshow. Detailed below is the full list of aircraft in both the static and flying display.

Participant Aircraft Display
Mark Jeffries Extra 330 Flying
Twister aerobatics Team Twister Flying
Air Arabia A320 Static
Al Jazirah Aviation Club Aeroprakt 22 Static
BAE Systems Eurofighter Typhoon Full Scale Replica Static
Spitfire MK.XIX PM651 Replica Static
Bell Helicopter Bell 429 VVIP Static
BDF Special Forces parachute team Flying
Comlux B767 Static
DHL B767-200F Static
B757-200PCF Flying
DRDO Lca Tejas 2 Flying
E Aviation Citation Sovereign Static
Embrear Legacy 650 Static
Emirates A380 Static
Gulf Air A320-ER Static
Gulf stream Aerospace Gulfstream 6650 Static
Indian Airforce (Sarang Display Team) HAL Dhruv Helicopters Flying & Static
AEW&C Flying & Static
C-17 Static
Kuwait Airways A330-200 Static & Flying
Qatar Airways A380 Static
A350 Static
Qatar Aeronautical College Piper Seneca V Static
Qatar Flying Club Auto Gryo Static
Aircreation Static
Diamond 42 Static
Tecnam P2006 Static
Tecnam P2010 Static
Tecnam Astore Static
Tecnam JF2002 Static
RAF Merlin Static
Typhoon Static & Flying
Royal Saudi Airforce Typhoon Static
Russian Knights Su-27 Flying
Ilyushin 76 Static
Safat Aviation Group Safat 02 (Ak1-3) Static
Safat 02 (BS03) Static
Saudi Falcons (Hawks) display team Hawks MK65 Flying
Saudi Airlines B777-300 Static
Saudi Gulf Airlines A320 Static & Flying
Sukhoi SSJ 100 Static
Tag Aeronautics Challenger Static
Global Static
TAI ANKA UAV Static
Textron Aviation Citation Sovereign + Static
King Air 350ER Static
AT-6 Static
Texel Air B737-300F Static
UAE Al Fursan Aermacchi MB-339NAT Flying
UAE F16 Flying
M2000 Flying
USN F-18 Hornet Static
F-18 Super Hornet Static
MV-22 Osprey Static
AV8 Harrier Static
CH-47 Static
MH-60 Sea Hawk Static
Sikorsky MH-53 Static
P-3 Orion Static
USAF F-22 Flying
F-15E Static

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 17 Jan 2016 21:36

I think major H&D issues for JF-17. Fakers were probably afraid LCA aerobatics would show them up.

That's the thing with these Pakjabi bicycle mechanics. They are all bravura and bluster but when it comes down to it, they tuck their tails and oink and run.

disha · Post by **disha** » 17 Jan 2016 21:37

shiv wrote:
Singha wrote:he has a great camera for sure, I wish he had video taped it from his DLSR...but perhaps some restrictions are in place there to prevent spoilers outside of the official event media.
And hefty deltoids to hold up those massive lenses he uses

Or not. One just needs a good tripod and a gimbaled tripod head!

-----

Good to know that the Bandar has decided to remain in Burkha.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 17 Jan 2016 21:43

https://twitter.com/manupubby_ET/status ... 8738101248

disha · Post by **disha** » 17 Jan 2016 21:51

Check this link out. Bandar is actually flying!

Actual JF-17 Thunder 'Bandar' Flying

BharadwajV · Post by **BharadwajV** » 17 Jan 2016 21:59

^^

That seems about right.
Also confirms the Fizzlya theory of not needing twin seat variant because the XBOX 360 sim gives them all the training required.

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 17 Jan 2016 22:00

Karan M wrote:I think major H&D issues for JF-17. Fakers were probably afraid LCA aerobatics would show them up.

That's the thing with these Pakjabi bicycle mechanics. They are all bravura and bluster but when it comes down to it, they tuck their tails and oink and run.

Soon LCA would be in every air show that JF-17 will be in and JF-17 will never fly.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 17 Jan 2016 22:15

Never seen so much condensation on the top of Tejas's wing!

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 17 Jan 2016 22:21

Mort Saar, it makes sense to get Rafael at these costs since the availability rate of Rafale is truly incomparable with whatever we have. Besides we must have saved significantly from low oil prices, tax collection revenues but that's different discussion.

Kakarat,Hats off the high resolution pics of Tejas. What a beauty.

member_29267 · Post by **member_29267** » 17 Jan 2016 22:22

^^ Condensation usually depends on the Gs being pulled by the aircraft and also the altitude because closer to sea level and the coast the air would be more moist right?

So, I guess it is a combination of the higher Gs and the lower altitude at Bahrain.

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 17 Jan 2016 22:48

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 17 Jan 2016 23:09

disha wrote:Just highlighting the parts which I agree on in Mortji's post.

Mort Walker wrote: India is paying the French for logistics support which raises unit cost of the Rafale coming entirely out of CAPEX. The Tejas already has logistics support included in the operations and maintenance part of the defence budget, therefore CAPEX is $25 million.
Spending upto $10 billion on the Rafale makes no sense as there is no indication it will be available in any significant numbers in terms of availability by 2020 or even 2022. Between 2020 and 2022 India will have significant LCA development and manufacturing experience. It can employ several thousands of Indians in the aerospace industry IF the IAF is committed and forced by GoI to accept 20 squadrons of the Tejas.
Anyway, I love the plane and would like to see it flying in numbers.

India need 1000 production copy of Tejas of all variety. I had posted this before

Similarly 1000 Arjun tanks must be produced.

Large scale def industry and viable aerospace industry will bloom

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 18 Jan 2016 01:18

Totally agree with vinayak and not agree with skekat. If we save money then we should waste it on the French? How do we know about Rafale's availability when we have never operated it? It has been pointed out that M2k had better availability because IAF invested heavily in spares- more so than Mig29s.

The LCA is a versatile platform today. 4,000kg of external stores and an array of munitions. Good A2A and A2G capabilities - way superior to Mig21, comparable to M2K, JF-17 etc. We would be monumental idiots if we let this opportunity to catch up with the leaders in aerospace go by.

This failure is ours to choose or ........

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 18 Jan 2016 01:20

shiv wrote:I saw on Twitter that JF-17 has pulled out of the show? Any info?

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 18 Jan 2016 01:21

1,000 LCA and 2500 Arjuns plus another 2500 - 10000 exports to Vietnam and African countries.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 18 Jan 2016 02:38

We|I missed this stunning pic here earlier perhaps

i am sure this pic will interest the sith lords.

and per rana's fb page, this is taken before an high-g turn

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 7739_o.jpg

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 18 Jan 2016 04:20

Vivek K wrote:1,000 LCA and 2500 Arjuns plus another 2500 - 10000 exports to Vietnam and African countries.

This is absolutely correct.

Every 3-4 months TSP engages in killings at the border of civilians, BSF, IA personnel and TSP engages in direct terrorism as seen in Pathankot, Gurdaspur, and Mumbai. The political leadership does not respond and at best the IA can use mortars, but not even artillery or an expeditionary force to kill terrorists across the border. In this context, and I'm sorry to say it, the Indian armed forces will have its hands tied by the political leadership in Delhi and what the IAF, IN, and IA want is not relevant to long term national security. To be a global power India must have its own domestic military industry. What it produces may not be the best, but it will suffice as the military will not be used for punitive retaliation. That said, it will be learning steps and the LCA is a great world class 4th generation aircraft.

It is better to have a road map by 2025 to phase out the Mig-21, 27, 29, Jaguar, Mirage 2000, and Hawk. All of these must be replaced by the LCA Tejas Mk-I/II/III. By 2025 the IAF should operate only two types of combat aircraft: The LCA Tejas and Su-30MKI. Modern aircraft are about developing and integrating avionics, voice/data comms, and radar/sensors with a complement of stand off weapons. It takes decades to build up experience in these areas which can not be purchased.

member_28756 · Post by **member_28756** » 18 Jan 2016 04:39

Vivek K wrote:1,000 LCA and 2500 Arjuns plus another 2500 - 10000 exports to Vietnam and African countries.

I think you are being modest.

At least 20000 to those countries.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 18 Jan 2016 04:57

Manny ghar ki murgi daal barabur? The LCA is under rated by the IAF brass. If we do not dream big, we will never get there?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 18 Jan 2016 05:01

we need similar feel-posts for Kaveri engine. some $3b inputs needed for a fresh start. It is not enough it is left as is.. it needs to get into a twin-engined Mig29s to collect metrics soon before an LCA TD can start collecting data. there was deep interest for Kaveri K10 to make it.

It should replace a RD33 for testing purposes. get it on and move it! get it integrated first. we can't just let it go! focus on making kaveri as the base for all future turbo jet and precision, safety-critical engine developments.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 18 Jan 2016 07:17

@Saik sahab,

May I suggest not to post images when you are not sure if they has been posted before. In the last two pages, all the pictures posted by you have been posted before. Some are a few years old!

@Others,
Please go easy on the India should get 1000, 10000, 20000 ... LCAs. It doesn't add anything. In fact it dilutes the cry for a reasonable number of LCAs.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 18 Jan 2016 08:16

Bandar bhaga burke ke ander

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Jan 2016 08:26

a good comparison in bahrain would be to see what the typhoon, M2k and F22 does in aerobatics. they will all fly and all are superb performers.

bandar will tactically

sit this one out for sure.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 18 Jan 2016 09:30

Jumping far ahead but what's the betting that once, insh'allah, Tejas puts in a great performance, some jagoffs in the media are going to whine that we gave away our strategic secrets in an air show and it's Modi's fault onlee?

nits · Post by **nits** » 18 Jan 2016 10:49

From IDRW... not sure on how accurate it is

Mods - Remove this if this is wrong thread for it

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 18 Jan 2016 10:55

^^^
Yuck! This comparision is so not needed ir justified onlee nits-ji.

Bandar is a really bandar aircraft, technologically far far behind than the LCA!
Just noticed: There are some outright lies in the Bandar section.

The Pak/Cheeni propaganda machine pays the media, our DDM included, to compare these two aircraft. These aircraft are of two different generations, with the LCA much more advanced!

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 18 Jan 2016 11:03

Nits-> You forget to mention that Bandaar still uses Analog FBW in most circumstances and not Digital FBW like Mig 21.

nits · Post by **nits** » 18 Jan 2016 11:18

Image is from IDRW; can't vouch for its accuracy. Have edited post for the same

SidSom · Post by **SidSom** » 18 Jan 2016 14:28

Guru's. Why the decision to fire Derby with old Radome. Will there be any difference in missile integration due to radome diff ( in case of mid course corrections being sent from Radar to missile). Will there be another round of tests with new radome ??

Any chance we will see Tejas on 26th Jan parade??

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 18 Jan 2016 14:51

I really like the fact that they are displaying only desi products like LCA, CABS AEW&C, Dhruv. In one go it shows an Indian capability which no other country has to our west until Israel (and some could be potential customers).

If they keep up this Bahrain visit every year then everyone would see the steady increase in capability over next 2-3 years - BVRAAM, IFR, AESA. And then there is an opportunity to display some desi weaponry next to this - Akash, Astra, Sudarshan kits, etc.

It would have been nice if one of the LCA Tejas sent was the trainer. Rides for some visiting AF personnel, like the MMRCA contenders did at Aero India events, would have been nice. Perhaps next time.

SidSom · Post by **SidSom** » 18 Jan 2016 14:57

^+1

I think we can also add LCH, Rudra, LUH, Arjun, NAG among others

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Jan 2016 15:15

SidSom wrote:Guru's. Why the decision to fire Derby with old Radome. Will there be any difference in missile integration due to radome diff ( in case of mid course corrections being sent from Radar to missile). Will there be another round of tests with new radome ??
Any chance we will see Tejas on 26th Jan parade??

new radome is undergoing ground tests here. it will permit track n fire at longer ranges thats all, nothing changes wrt avionics and missile. those extended range missile tests and tracking tests would be done with new radome on some other Tejas.

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 18 Jan 2016 16:02

But why these tests were held up till now? We could have completed these tests before the new radome came, and apparently was getting delayed.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jan 2016 16:09

Next showcasing (After Aero India) will be Singapore or Malaysia prob 2018

SidSom · Post by **SidSom** » 18 Jan 2016 16:52

^ Any luck with the Zuhai airshow ?? (Nov 2016)