LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

nits · Post by **nits** » 18 Jan 2016 17:38

Dream is it goes to Red Flag one day and shoot some Firang mall in exercise

i know its too much to dream but will happen

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 18 Jan 2016 18:00

nits wrote:Dream is it goes to Red Flag one day and shoot some Firang mall in exercise i know its too much to dream but will happen

With the elta 2052 combined with a low rcs, I am not too sure about the survival prospects of any 3.5-4.0 gen fighter against the Tejas 1a in BVR scenarios.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Jan 2016 18:01

the same thought had come to me. in dark grey loaded to the gunwales with 6 AAM incl 4 in dual-rail config and 2 supersonic drop tanks would look awesome in that flight line. "Nellis tower, ready for launch ...." "Tejas0102 you are cleared for takeoff right after the two bundars going on burners for takeoff"

nits · Post by **nits** » 18 Jan 2016 18:06

Singha wrote:the same thought had come to me. in dark grey loaded to the gunwales with 6 AAM incl 4 in dual-rail config and 2 supersonic drop tanks would look awesome in that flight line. "Nellis tower, ready for launch ...." "Tejas0102 you are cleared for takeoff right after the two bundars going on burners for takeoff"

I can imagine it right now sir... this is bloody going to happen...

member_28990 · Post by **member_28990** » 18 Jan 2016 18:43

Singha wrote:the same thought had come to me. in dark grey loaded to the gunwales with 6 AAM incl 4 in dual-rail config and 2 supersonic drop tanks would look awesome in that flight line. "Nellis tower, ready for launch ...." "Tejas0102 you are cleared for takeoff right after the two bundars going on burners for takeoff"

slightly choked up just thinking about it.

i really hope once our first squadron is formed, the iaf manages to extract so much performance from it that they proudly show it off to everybody like the MKIs

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 18 Jan 2016 18:48

How does the Dhruv reach Bahrain..? C-17?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Jan 2016 19:38

for those who have not see this, watch in full
from 5:41 the mass takeoff begins! the german tornado pilots have a distinctive accent

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 18 Jan 2016 21:49

C-17.
Main rotor blades are disassembled an reassembled on site

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 18 Jan 2016 23:47

nits wrote:From IDRW... not sure on how accurate it is

...

Mods - Remove this if this is wrong thread for it

It's from Sushant Singh's report in IE. It's a very, very simplistic overview. But then again, he doesn't write for a nerdy audience.

Nevertheless, this bit rankled.

Aviation expert Angad Singh says that “...Tejas was meant as the next generation fighter — there is a lot of great technology on the Tejas, such as the Israeli HMD"

Of all the great technology on the Tejas, he had to take note of an Israeli system, not the multitude of Indian ones.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jan 2016 23:51

Too many CHSO4s in Indian media.

What are Angad Singh's credentials? How is he an aviation expert?
Trolled around air shows and read a few Janes?

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 18 Jan 2016 23:54

JF-17 vs HAL Tejas: New Competitors on the Military Block

The Bahrain International Air Show slated to be held between January 21-23 at the Sakhir Airbase in Bahrain is supposed to be the first international symposium where India will showcase its indigenously built, but much delayed, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) Tejas light combat aircraft. This move, reportedly taken at a “political level,” could place the Tejas as an export option in the future and will expose it to much wider scrutiny over its performance and offerings in the international market.

However, even though this may become an exciting time for the Tejas as a potential option for foreign militaries for their arsenal, it has an interesting competitor from its own neighborhood. The JF-17 Thunder fighter jet, jointly developed by China’s Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) and its Pakistani partner, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), is also now in the export variety with similar attributes to those of the Tejas. In fact, at the Bahrain air show both the Tejas and the JF-17 are quite literally going to be pitted against each other, as they share parking space on the flight line tarmac right next to each other.

The HAL Tejas is still looking for its “carpe diem” moment, as the Indian Air Force, the project’s main beneficiary, has made no qualms in admitting that it is not pleased about the delays over the Tejas Mk II variant of the model that it urgently wants to induct into its fleet. Meanwhile, manufacturer HAL has offered the IAF a Mk 1A variant instead, saying the Mk II variant is not expected to have its first flight before 2019, or enter series production before 2024. On the other hand, the Block 1 JF-17s have already seen service with the Pakistan Air Force, and are now expected to be upgraded to Block 2 standards (which includes mid-air refuel capabilities and improved avionics).

Both India and Pakistan understand the worth of a fighter jet such as the JF-17 and the Tejas in the specific markets where they are likely to compete. The light, maneuverable, low-maintenance and comparatively cheap offerings represented by both variants could find many takers; however the fact that the JF-17 is available for purchase today has already given it a head start, even if its production output remains sluggish. Other countries such as Myanmar, Nigeria and Azerbaijan are known to have shown interest in the JF-17. Both India and Pakistan themselves have operated the MiG 21 (Pakistan as the Chinese license built version Chengdu F-7), one of the world’s most successful, duplicated, and cost-effective combat jets. Like the MiG 21 during its high-sales days, both the JF-17 and HAL Tejas could build customer bases in financially challenging areas such as Africa, Latin America and Southeast Asia, with many states looking for ‘low-end’ solutions to air defense needs.

The JF-17, now a predominantly a “for Pakistan by China” project (China does not operate the type in its military) made recent news after reports suggested that Sri Lanka was interested in purchasing eight JF-17s with further options. News of the deal came as Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif made a state visit to Colombo; however, since the visit Indian apprehensions regarding the deal, attempts to sell the Tejas instead, and a recent quick visit by Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar seem to have stalled any such deal, if indeed one was in the making. Sri Lankan media outlets have said that the JF-17 discussion was “not on the table” with Pakistan, while an Indian defense news website has claimed that New Delhi is considering offering upgraded MiG 27s, a type already operated by Sri Lanka, free of cost to the country’s air force.

Even if India has, or in the future does manage to scuttle Sri Lanka’s attempts to procure the JF-17, the fact that it does not have the appropriate variant ready for IAF’s very own needs, let alone international suitors, is a wake up call to the country’s domestic military complex. India’s previous homegrown success story in military aviation, the HAL Dhruv or the Advanced Light Helicopter, also ran into turbulence with its only international military buyer, the South American nation of Ecuador had purchased seven of HAL’s Dhruv ALHs. However, since its addition to the Ecuadorian forces in 2009, four out of the seven helicopters have crashed. Two of the crashes were attributed to pilot error, but the other two were blamed on mechanical faults. Ecuador in October last year unilaterally cancelled its deal with HAL.

The new initiative by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi under his government’s flagship “Make In India” program, a drive to uplift India’s manufacturing sector, has accorded great importance to military development. India is currently one of the world’s largest importers of weapons despite having many indigenous flagship military programs, specifically in the aviation sector. However, a concoction of poor project execution, stretched resources, political oversight, and lack of culpability over failed programs have stalled or completely cancelled critical projects like the Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT), forcing the armed forces to look abroad to plug gaps.

For Make In India to be successful, concrete moves to develop India’s R&D sector and involving the private sector heavily into the fold with pro-market policies will be essential. India has huge potential not only to successfully service its own military needs, but to become an exporter of arms in the extremely competitive global military industrial complex, but only if it applies correct policies, political will, and strategic tact.

While the HAL Tejas remains a proud symbol of Indian industry, the fact that it took nearly three decades for the project to get where it is today should be made into a handbook for the government and associated agencies on how not to botch critical national security projects in the future. As of today, the JF-17 with its operational experience makes more sense for potential buyers. India may have had some influence in Sri Lanka’s interests for the JF-17, but it may not have the same leverage if other neighbors such as Myanmar or even Bangladesh consider the same option.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jan 2016 23:56

Dear Kabir Taneja, What competitor? The JF-17 was withdrawn from flying in the air show.

Please write when sober.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 19 Jan 2016 00:19

Actually, I like the JF-17. Indian defense reporting, on the other hand, appalls me. How can "professionals" do such horrible jobs?

When somebody writes "Hinduatan Aeronautics Limited Tejas", you know that there basis of reference is Wikipedia.

When somebody reports Angad Singh as an aeronautical "expert", obviously they don't know the difference between an expert and an photographer. Angad is one my favourite Indian aviation photographers. However, his prowess as an expert is yet to be established. His bias against the LCA is well known though.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 19 Jan 2016 00:21

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wyh7puzqHs

Another wonder of our media. Somewhere in the middle the Tejas changes from LCA to LAC!!

Who hires these people?

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 19 Jan 2016 00:31

Can you imagine? Your JOB is to report on defense equipment. You come up with one article a week. And this is what you have to show for it! Seriously?! It is fine to write articles at whatever level that grabs most eyeballs, but is it that difficult to get your facts right?!

And then one passes judgement on people who are building 4.5 generation fighter. FACEPALM!

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 19 Jan 2016 01:20

The IDRW graphic says LCA empty weight is ~7000 kg, when earlier it has been reported as 6500 kg. What is the correct number?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Jan 2016 02:39

If we comparing J-17 with LCA, why not J-20? yeah.. keep the class aside and discuss technology and mission capability assets.

Nick_S · Post by **Nick_S** » 19 Jan 2016 02:48

LCA empty weight is 6,560kg with 9,163 kg (20,200 lb) thrust.

http://www.tejas.gov.in/specifications/powerplant.html

JF-17's engine produces around 19,000 lb thrust.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 19 Jan 2016 02:49

indranilroy wrote:Can you imagine? Your JOB is to report on defense equipment. You come up with one article a week. And this is what you have to show for it! Seriously?! It is fine to write articles at whatever level that grabs most eyeballs, but is it that difficult to get your facts right?!

And then one passes judgement on people who are building 4.5 generation fighter. FACEPALM!

indranil,

For what it is worth, and not directly related to this article, it is almost a tendering process to get something in print. And you must get past the hurdles often enough to keep your job. If what you submit doesnt appear in print, despite your name then you cant blame anyone or say your career anywhere goodbye. Then there is the editorial team whose sole goal is look over the revenue stream, of every kind. Incoming and outgoing. They will not let enough research happen for meaningful reporting. Even in theSe google days, if you arent reporting on *insert your favorite actress* then you need a meaningful source to quote. Now sources think talking to the media is treason.

HoweVer, long story short, the main reason is starving of the beast. You make any career as less attractive as journalism and you wil only get bakra dutts.

The journalist is trying to get their daily bread. So is the editorial team. So are the sources. Get past this job and bread dilemma if you want to improve reporting. Unfortunately it is not compartmentalized. You sow the seed of good defense reporting and it will sprout into a news plant and produce political news fruit. So, not happening.

Nick_S · Post by **Nick_S** » 19 Jan 2016 03:04

Nitin A. Gokhale ‏@nitingokhale 18h18 hours ago
The entire LCA Tejas team in Bahrain

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Jan 2016 05:18

..and those 4 men on the building dome?

Luxtor · Post by **Luxtor** » 19 Jan 2016 05:39

^^^

Those 4 men on the roof of the building are pakis getting ready to jump off and kill themselves.

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 19 Jan 2016 05:50

SaiK wrote:..and those 4 men on the building dome?

They are the Bandar team that got left behind..

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Jan 2016 06:48

bandar team spies advance detail.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Jan 2016 06:55

india should use the facilities built up in gwalior/jamnagar/kalaikunda, improve them and hold some SAARC(minusTSP)+ASEAN+Japan kind of desi red flag to give much wider exposure to the rank and file of our squadrons which can never be done with small units flying abroad to events like red flag.

perhaps kalaikunda is best - one can have open flying area over the sea without the sensitive areas near jamnagar to deal with.

BD + SL + afghanistan + iran + myanmar + singapore + malay + indonesia + thailand would be a good start, to later invite taiwan, vietnam, soko and japan as well. imagine the thunder of mass takeoff of 100 fighters , phalcons and tankers within 20 mins - drool worthy.

would be expensive but playing in the big boys table is always so and the participants also contribute.

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 19 Jan 2016 07:18

VinodTK wrote:JF-17 vs HAL Tejas: New Competitors on the Military Block

Preachy article. Let bandar be acceptable to Chinese themselves first

From what I understand PLAF had rejected JF 17 and PAF gladly lapped it up and showcasing them as "Pakistan built fighter jet".

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 19 Jan 2016 07:55

Shreeman, it is one thing to write an article that simplifies the material down to the point that the lay reader can fully grasp the nuances. Ajai Shukla, for all the criticism that gets heaped on him, does precisely that in his Broadsword columns. And he's very regular too.

But this piece by Sushant Singh reads like something from a kindergarten-level book. Zero analysis, zero depth. Nothing new to add to the conversation.

As for Angad Singh, I echo Inrdanil's thoughts. He's a brilliant photographer, but his bias against the LCA is pretty clear. He often mocks the LCA team for trying to market it to potential customers despite the fact that it has foreign subsystems, but gushes quite openly about how awesome the Gripen is, even though it has even more foreign content.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Jan 2016 08:28

Singha wrote:for those who have not see this, watch in full
from 5:41 the mass takeoff begins! the german tornado pilots have a distinctive accent

What is this video about? I would like to know before I commit 48 minutes.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Jan 2016 08:58

^ its about one of the red flags and follows the thoughts of a 3rd gen f15 fighter pilot from start to finish. originally in imax. has a lot of low level footage, inside the E3 sentry and how the ACMI pods feed back into the displays on the awacs.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 19 Jan 2016 09:03

^^^^
I have seen this video before , its from Boeing right ??? collectors item .

SidSom · Post by **SidSom** » 19 Jan 2016 11:25

From the Group photo, I count 7 'Test pilots' (old eyes could be decieved easily). It is interesting to see so many for this exhibition. Looks like IAF may be slowing toeing the line and committing more TPs to the Tejas sqdr.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Jan 2016 11:28

Shaun wrote:^^^^
I have seen this video before , its from Boeing right ??? collectors item .

oh yes all that low level strike and ACM is very tricky. one mistake is trouble, two is death so low and fast. the HUD and in-cockpit footage is priceless.
the narration is sober and well reasoned and not the usual HuYah sir top gun machismo.

usually I find the usaf videos tend to be more sober while USN which has deep-state ties to hollywood lays out the red carpet to film makers and goes for the "cowboys shooting up the town" script. must be the whole anxiety of chota bhai needing to prove himself as fierce as the bigger bhai who prefers to use the big stick but walk quietly.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 19 Jan 2016 12:15

SHAME on all of you insulting those 4 people as the Pakis bandar team that got left behind.
They did not get left behind...

Those 4 are the air display component of the bandar team .... when they jump off the dome !!

member_20453 · Post by **member_20453** » 19 Jan 2016 13:37

I think if FOC is obtained this year, we can aim to take the initial 6 LCA MK-1A to Red Flag circa 2019 along with 6 MKI. Would be quite awesome indeed and hopefully it will run circles around most of the others.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 19 Jan 2016 14:22

Singha wrote:for those who have not see this, watch in full
from 5:41 the mass takeoff begins! the german tornado pilots have a distinctive accent

Good one. Sobering!

pralay · Post by **pralay** » 19 Jan 2016 14:36

Have the photos/videos started floating in ? No feast for eyes today ?

member_29282 · Post by **member_29282** » 19 Jan 2016 14:45

pralay wrote:Have the photos/videos started floating in ? No feast for eyes today ?

Just one this morning. Posted in the LCA-Tejas FB page.

Abhay_S · Post by **Abhay_S** » 19 Jan 2016 18:13

^^^ Early morning awsomeness!!! . such photos remind me of the quote made by the former ADA Director Sri Subramanya.
Tejas story will inspire many generations

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 19 Jan 2016 18:37

The lca should have been flying at international airshows for the past 6 years or so. The lack of confidence our defense establishments have collectively and with each other is bewildering to say the least. Even before the aircraft left for Bahrain we had moaning and whining from some quarters to the DDM types....

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 19 Jan 2016 19:03

Indian defence might to be on display at Bahrain Air Show 2016
14-Jan-2016
Indian defence might to be on display at Bahrain Air Show 2016
India is showcasing state-of-the-art airborne platform namely the Tejas, the Light Combat Aircraft designed and developed by ADA (Aeronautical Development Agency) and associated sensors and communication systems designed and developed by DRDO (Defence Research and Development Organisation, under the Ministry of Defence, India) during the Bahrain International Air Show-2016 being held at Sakhir Airbase from January 21.

Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), along with other stakeholders viz., IAF, IN, CEMILAC, DGAQA, CSI, other PSUs, private sector participants and academic institutions are key players in the Tejas programme.

The Defence Research and Development Organisation, along with some of its production partners, is displaying

India’s strength in advanced defence technology areas, with the aim of exploring the potential of exporting these advanced systems to friendly countries in the region.

The show will witness flying demonstration of the Tejas -- the latest and state-of- the- art In d i a n Light Combat Aircraft, the ‘Four plus’ generation and highly cost-effective fighter aircraft.

Tejas will be flying outside the country’s airspace for the first time and that is at the Bahrain International Air Show to create history.

Team Sarang of the Indian Air Force (IAF) will be showcasing the nation’s prowess by flying ALH Dhruv helicopter designed and developed by HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Limited) during the Bahrain Air Show.

Sarang Helicopter Display Team is the Brand Ambassador of Indian Air Force since 2003. The teams’ maiden public display was in Singapore in 2004.

The team has performed at various international forums in Chile, the UAE, Berlin, the United Kingdom and numerous venues in India.

The team has gained immense popularity with the high point of being crowned the ‘Best Looking Close Formation Helicopter Team’ in Berlin Air Show in 2008.

It operates Advanced Light Helicopter, which is manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics limited.

Its hinge less rotor, exceptional agility and advanced avionics make it a world class product.

This helicopter has proved its worth while being part of various rescue missions.

Sarang is all about team work. Led by Gp Capt Aniket Santosh Abhyankar, this team boasts finest air warriors of Indian Air Force.

It has proved its capability in accomplishing real time rescue missions with the same finesse with which it has been performing an aerial ballet by executing well-choreographed manoeuvres. The team lives up to its motto “But for the rotors, we would have been
closer”.

In addition to LCA Tejas, DRDO-ADA is also exhibiting other key products in BIAS-2016 as indoor exhibits which may have demand from countries of this region.
http://www.newsofbahrain.com/viewNews.p ... MNU=2&SUB=